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Friday, 19 Shevat, 5786
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Yeshivos Should Spice It Up

Yitzchok A. returns with another op-ed about Chabad yeshivos, this time suggesting how to spice up the learning and get bochurim's attention. Full Story

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#31 other than write to COL what can concerned parents do?
January 17, 2012 5:36 pm

Any ideas?

Concerned Parent
January 17, 2012 11:59 am

I read this article and the first and was gratified to see that the level of anger against the author in defense of the status quo has gone down dramatically and the vast majority of comments are supportive. There is no doubt we have a major problem on our hands. We are not turning out graduates of our system that are truly educated as they should be based on the amount of time they spend in school. That is the bottom line! The average Bochur who graduates is NOT well equipped to really truly learn and understand well a piece… Read more »

#26
January 16, 2012 8:19 pm

You stick up for a system you admit has many issues which need to fixed. Instead of deflecting valid criticism because you don’t like the “shprach”, you should be demanding the system should improve. If more people spoke out about their grievances and the abysmal lack of structure and thus the abysmal lack of motivation, maybe the ‘system’ will finally improve?

Meanwhile parents shell out exorbitant amounts of money for yehsivah with so little actual learning skill improvement of the year, to show for it.

Don't Blame Yeshiva
January 16, 2012 7:57 pm

The gemara as is written was never intended to be a textbook for all kids to learn from. It’s not the yeshiva’s problem – it’s a much deeper issue with the curriculum itself. Yeshivos do their best under the circumstances..

#26
January 16, 2012 6:05 pm

You stick up for a system you admit has many issues which need to fixed. Instead of deflecting valid criticism because you don’t like the “shprach”, you should be demanding the system should improve. If more people spoke out about their grievances and the abysmal lack of structure and thus the abysmal lack of motivation, maybe the ‘system’ will finally improve?

Meanwhile parents shell out exorbitant amounts of money for yehsivah with so little actual learning skill improvement of the year, to show for it.

#26
January 16, 2012 5:31 pm

You stick up for a system you admit has many issues which need to fixed. Instead of deflecting valid criticism because you don’t like the “shprach”, you should be demanding the system should improve. If more people spoke out about their grievances and the abysmal lack of structure and thus the abysmal lack of motivation, maybe the ‘system’ will finally improve?

Meanwhile parents shell out exorbitant amounts of money for yehsivah with so little actual learning skill improvement of the year, to show for it.

# 20, 23, 25
January 16, 2012 1:06 pm

You totally missed the point. As i said “The “system” is far from perfect” and what you describe as the lack of goals and based on what one moves from level to level are all real issues and much more…

But in regards to the whole “Shprach” about “accomplishments” and “feeling accomplished” etc. The reason we learn Torah in Yeshivos is entirely different from the reason one goes to a “school” or “university”. You need to learn very well Tanya Perek Hey!

21,22
January 16, 2012 8:24 am

maybe your perfect, for the rest of us human beings we expect our schools to be schools.

I agree with #20
January 16, 2012 12:48 am

From experience yeshivahs can learn from Melbourne YG on how to motivate the guys to acheive. Most bochurim who have been to Melbourne say the same thing.

#21 #22
January 15, 2012 10:21 pm

I continued with the “system”. Thank you very much. I received smicha from a respected Smicha program. However having gone through both “systems” I can attests that in most yeshivahs (aside from Melbourne) there is very little emphasis in making sure that at the end the year the bochur has attained some skill that he didn’t have at the beginning. IOW in Melbourne bochurim have goal (moving up a class) and can work to achieve that goal. In every other Yeshivah you go up onto the next shiur whether or not you have gained any new skills in the previous… Read more »

To # 20
January 15, 2012 9:35 pm

Just to prove the farce of your argument, what happened after Melbourne? If you really cared about learning how to learn Gemorah independently, why did you not continue with their “system”? the last comment is right on. “יגעת ולא מצאת אל תאמין”.

To # 20
January 15, 2012 9:31 pm

The holy Torah of Hashem unlike any other “study” cannot, and will never be attained and succeeded in without “יגיעה” and “אין התורה מתקיימת אלא במי שממית עצמו עליה” . The “system” is far from perfect, however I believe that the main failure of the “system” is that they have not taught you the above mentioned. I am very sorry to burst your bubble but our חז”ל tell us: “יגעת ומצאת תאמין” and if not then “אל תאמין”. Nothing more to be said!

Yes it would be nice to have more subjects
January 15, 2012 5:54 pm

It would also be nice if the after 10 years in Yeshivah learning gemorro and smicha I would be able take a gemoro off the shelf and complete a blatt without help from artscroll. Even though I have received a university degree with high distinction and have been accepted into a very prestigious university to do a Masters degree in a science subject, my gemorro learning is nowhere near on the same level of competence. Why? The only answer is the Yeshiva system, with no proper goals, tests or exams and granting of accreditation to those who succeed in learning… Read more »

cocoaman
January 15, 2012 8:38 am

I agree with #10.there needs to be someone wo can look at the ENTIRE school curriculum in a comprehensive way and help the teachers help the students attain grade level so that when the student finishes preschool/elementary/HS, they r on grade level SKILLWISE.

$$$$$$$$$
January 15, 2012 8:31 am

It is all about the money and running the schools like a business rather than an education for our children. I paid tuition last year to have nothing taught to my child because she had substitutes for half the year. I felt I overpaid because my child learned nothing. The issue also has to do with teachers that are in their 50 and 60 who choose not to change how they have been teaching for the past 30 years. There are more children with issues in the class than there was 30 years ago. If the alef beis sitting chart… Read more »

No curriculum
January 15, 2012 7:52 am

I teach in bnos menachem and agree that there is no guidlines or proper set curriculum. There needs to be someone as curriculum head inevery school. Or else the teachers willlll do as they think is best.

Amazing
January 15, 2012 3:04 am

As a “baal teshuva” who spent a year in Mayanot (baal teshuva yeshiva) followed by 4 years in yeshivas like Toronto, Oholei Torah, etc. I DEFINITELY identify with this author. I don’t know how this could be implemented without hurting those who desire intense gemara study, but perhaps the option could be given for an hour or 2 in the morning and afternoon for bochurim who want, to learn some of the subjects mentioned above. And those who love Gemara b’iyun & b’girsa could stick to the normal schedule of many hours of learning gemara as well. Why not mix… Read more »

From A Shaliach
January 15, 2012 12:41 am

Right on the money!!!

EXCELLENT! AGREE 100% From a fellow Shliach
January 14, 2012 11:24 pm
To #8
January 14, 2012 10:41 pm

Your comments are well founded…to address your great questions…that is precisely the purpose of the committee…to put together as many different minds as possible to help determine what the best way to tackle the vast number of challenges we face within our educational system… whether in CH or elsewhere…

Shimon. Monsey
January 14, 2012 10:32 pm

very good writing

monsey bochur
January 14, 2012 10:08 pm

in monsey we have that this is the first time i started understanding chassidus special thanks to the shluchim who explain it in such a clear and deep way

something also has to be done about the girls' education
January 14, 2012 10:01 pm

the girls system needs a change too… High schools are focused on creating sicha learning-chitas chirping girls (although these are not bad things- it is just that it is at times shoved down your throat) there needs to be yiras shamayim- pride in being a jew- the developement of REAL girls who take judaism upon themselves, a sincere belief in hashem etc.

Transforming Jewish Education
January 14, 2012 9:40 pm

Rabbi Asher Crispe is doing tremendous work with his educational initiative and one upcoming project is teacher training and curriculum development. Check out his website: http://www.interinclusion.org

to #4 and others
January 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Are you working on a committee for a specific yeshiva or for ALL lubavitcher yeshivas? I have taught for B”H 12 years (in girls schools), and many of those years (in C.H.) was in Bais Chaya Mushka. What I found amazing about it was that there actually was SOMEONE- a CURRICULUM DIRECTOR who knew and understood what each grade’s level should be at, academically and socially. So, for example, a 3rd grader wouldn’t come home with a hagaddah that was on a lower level then a 2nd grader. or made sure that a 5th grader would and should know more… Read more »

THIS YESHIVA GETS IT!
January 14, 2012 9:01 pm
to 2
January 14, 2012 8:04 pm

Bemokem shein ish then its a responsibility to stand up and right a wrong u speak of random ppl not having a right to criticise well unfortunately are mechanchim are quite random themselves what are your qualifications for a “mechanech ” let me guess someone(trying to) teaching for ten years sry but unfortunately many ppl not fit for the position have got the job and if someone sees there mistakes then they have a responsibility to point them out!!

20 yearold bucher

Many of these ideas have been implemented already
January 14, 2012 7:50 pm

Mesivta of Coral Springs

To Yitzchok A...
January 14, 2012 7:29 pm

…and comment #3, there is a committee of educators who are looking to see things change from the way they are, that is in the process of being put together to meet over this summer. If Yitzchok A doesn’t mind emailing me at [email protected] we would love to have you be a part of the committee.Thank you.

a mother
January 14, 2012 6:23 pm

I think you have put a lot of thought into your suggestions.
I wish there were a vaad hachinuch we as parents could
turn to and express these ideas so that they can actually
be implemented.

dikduk is not something the rebbe encouraged
January 14, 2012 2:02 pm

THERE IS well known story that the rebbe corrects someone about the study of dikduk i find it hard to beileve that pirush hamilos is not being taught next. i find it hard to beileve that any random person has to lecture the education system on what to educate… and 4th i beileve that chassidim has to face a systemic wide ideological vice that forces them to not be innovative and not to think in new ways of how to think about new things and new definitions in things that affect the jewish people today… we only celebrate our history… Read more »

A bochur
January 14, 2012 1:22 pm

I agree in a way , there r some bochrim that unfortinaly lack these things mentiond and the biggest prob is they dont even know that there lacking somthing one the other hand there r alot of bochrim that boruch hashem r not lacking these things and even by these bochrim it came from themselves , they thougt in to it … So it would be a disaster if the system would to be changed for those bochrim that r lacking these stuff . Shiur gimmle zal would be turned into kita alef chader but on the other hand a… Read more »

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