The following letter was written by Rochi Bell and appeared in Tishrei 5775 issue of Perspectives Magazine, a periodical published by Merkaz Anash
There is an issue which I feel needs more attention and I believe this might be the right platform for it, being the only publication to actually address the real issues facing Anash.
I am referring to the excessive l’chaim behaviors some of our youth are being taught.
Please don’t get me wrong. I grew up in home where my father said l’chaim on Shabbos Mevorchim in shul, and it was quite apparent during the subsequent seudah at home… In fact, I have some beautiful childhood memories of looking forward to Shabbos Mevorchim, when the Shabbos seudah would be filled with hearty niggunim, stories and joy.
I myself experienced the warmth that a farbrengen, including the mashkeh, brings into a home and it is for this reason that I encourage my husband to attend farbrengens.
However, a clear distinction must be made between a farbrengen, and a sixteen year-old having fun. I am sure our mechanchim are not na?ve enough to think that a youngster having excessive l’chaims will actually help him listen to
the mashpia farbrenging. I am also quite sure that they are aware of the side effects, ruchnius and gashmius.
So why do they let it?
The only sad explanation I have come up with is that the yeshivah staff is scared. They are simply scared of the kids, not wanting to be the unpopular, square, rigid educators. They are afraid to educate.
And if I may dare add, this is merely a symptom.
I understand that the issue exists in other areas too, the amount they are challenged in learning and the standards set for yiras shomayim.
So what is the solution?
I believe it lies with us, the parents. If they are by nature cowards, pardon the frankness, let them be afraid of us. We must take a stand, and make them understand that if they are not ready to educate, to demand higher standards and to be firm – then they will be unpopular with us.
im really genuinely sorry for you. …on a different note ..PLEASE DONT GO BLAMING HANHONLA FOR WTVR ISSUES YOU THINK EXIST!!
Mashke=Dovor Hamous
Mashke= Severe problems in Shalom Bait
Mashke=Depression
Masake= Terrible for Chinuch
Mashke+ source of many many problems….
Vehoikar during the year against clear hoirois of the Rebbe
Ubbbbbeasrei derav this is worse than “Chazir”
Ubocharto Bachayim Kipshutoi……
stop flipping out we are in good hands
at least you SOUND intelligent so ill BOTHER responding to you. yes, youre right so those ppl should be worked on and dealt with. dont go blaming the lubavitch, hanhola, and whoever else. if you are genuinely worried then make a point for ppl not to say more than four and make a mivtzah or something. we can all accomplish alot. ..that brings me to another point..the rebbe said four, even FOUR you can become addicted to and rely on.the rebbe obviously knows this. we are in good hands.
There is a proper time and amount for everything.
Sometimes the proper amount varies, there’s no “one-size-fits-all”.
Don’t know about anyone else but I can tell you that my avodah has changed IMMENSELY due to saying l’chaim by farbrengens
the rebbe supported lichayims so what is anyone talkin bout. stupid article
The problem is when kids are drinking for the sake of it and not for saying le chaim to become spiritual
you obviously arent the type of women you would have a problem so what are you saying
The issues are being obscured. People seem to be looking only from their own narrow perspective, and not at the whole picture. Please recognise that many people have a biological tendency to addiction, and that offering drinks to such a person can cause irreversible harm, besides the immediate consequences of uninhibited behaviour.
It is wrong to make unlimited liquor available, or to persuade someone to drink.
after the rebbe spoke about mashke (שמיני כ״ג) a letter was given to the rebbe if that year purim and simchas torah the גזירה was בטל, sometimes the answer was yes and sometimes no.
being that we are now in a חושך כפול ומכופל and we can’t get direct answers from the rebbe we do according to the last הוראה wich was inמ״ט /מ״ח and the rebbe’s answer was that you are allowed to!!!!!
I have no idea what people are talking about. Yes Mrs. Bell is right that people drink a lot on simchas torah, which is fine because it’s once a year (count Purim in too) but I’m a nineteen year old bochur and I don’t see any excessive drinking among the healthy bochurim and the yeshiva where I went to, charged a 50$ knas to anyone who did get drunk. Those who do drink excessively would probably do it regardless of the system. Just take a look at secular college students. If a guy needs to escape reality he will. Stop… Read more »
A mother is trying to figure out why bochurim drink and then comes up with a conclusion. Guess she knows better than the bochurim. In relaity theres no deep reason to it or lack of education etc, its purely because its FUN to drink.
Another misguided person.
If someone has an addictive personality, giving them a drink when they are still a teenager is fueling the fire.
At least #31 is getting help, your still deep in the darkness.
Stop brushing off the terrible issue we have
Is there something wrong with a community deciding to control the amount of drinking going on in their shul? After many years of drinking getting very out of hand on simchas torah, the rav and community decided to get the drinking in shul under control. There is still plenty of lchaim to go around, but it is distributed in a safer more controlled way. This is something that should be applauded, not mocked.
What’s going on here? Women smoking. Eww.
I really don’t like most farbrengens in yeshiva b.c drinking a lot never get me inspired or w.e save it for the parties and concerts
Every year around 50 israeli kids ( 14/15 yrs old) being hosted and piled with alcohol in my neighbor sukkah . U see them throwing up, singing and dancing in the middle of a busy street , cars barely swerving to miss hitting them at 4am. It’s dangerous and disgusting!
As the great Tevya in fiddler on the roof understood: Tredition!
We as a deeply religious community are completely dependent on our treditions being passed on to the younger generation.
Excessive drinking has been a staple of a chasidic life for generations. Eradicating this custom will be a strenous experience at best.
We have created our own monster. Congratulations.
Get with the times! Women drink beer and “sweet” liquor including various flavored Vodkas plus a variety of mixed drinks (“hard” liquor mixed with fruit juice or Rum and Coke etc). We women are EQUAL to men in enjoying our drinks (- of course not during pregnancy!). And quite a few of my fellow girl friends enjoy cigarettes too! So, yes, that is the reality – women (frum, chassidish, in our community) DO drink (and some also smoke) – I do not know if some even drink “more” than the men as #19 claimed, but certainly women drinkl no less… Read more »
Whats with the Pittsburgh comment??
You think you are chassidish cuz you drink mashke. The rebbe loves everyone. Ok
Dear fellow Ladies loy”t Number 7, I think, was joking…well, I hope he was. Perhaps people are not aware but physiologically women cannot cope with as much alcohol as men. I would also like to shock you all but frum Jewish women have never drunk hard mashke and perhaps, as part of the frum world, Lubavitch should discourage it too. Yes,over 40 years ago, a bottle of the Rebbe’s mashke somehow arrived in Sem, a bottle top worth each was given out to each girl (which I declined!). At least one of those girls later developed a problem until she… Read more »
You ended up as an alcoholic, your issue. I’ve passed through many yeahivas these days, and the ‘what you’d call high standard’ are extremely strict on the mashke drinking. The so called ‘more chilled places’ who everyone says do such a good job with their kids on the edge, fuel their excitement with alcoholism, but I still don’t see any alcoholics comin from them, maybe druggies. You had a specific issue and couldn’t use self control, your own bad, If your still blaming the world at your age, you needa learn to grow up and face the big wide world.… Read more »
To #7 and #18 you sound like a typical misguided, naive Chabad bochur, go get an education. To #26 you absolutely need an education your spelling is horrendous. to #19 just relax yourself over there you don’t have to prove anything. Unfortunately whether we like it or not Chabad has bred a culture of drinking, this can be due to the encouragement of “chassidish” people, or the fact that it’s the only “kosher” outlet in Yeshiva, whatever it may be I can tell you right now, this excessive drinking in our circle has to stop!
I went through the system and I became a raging alcoholic. I B”H go to AA and have a few years of sobriety. The problem is not with simchas torah, but with every gathering, there is Maskeh. A Bochur should not be given any alcohol before the age of 17, Period. The fact is that the situation is much worse then when I was in Yeshiva. And the fact is that many wives do not even know that their husbands are alcoholics. There is meeting groups call “al anon”. Go to a meeting in your neighborhood, it will open your… Read more »
I’m a bochur who was in many yeshivos, and they are all strict on not tolerating bochurim getting drunk. Just wanna point out simchas Torah is outside of Seder yeshiva…..which makes the kids(who will want to experiment and then be displeased by the aftereffects) fall either under the responsibility of their parents or themselve, Lechaim!
Dina d’malchusa dina–the law of the land must be adhered to by any Jew who calls him or herself G-d fearing. And here it is, plain and clear: It’s called the New York State Social Host Law. “Parents who serve alcohol to their children in their home need to understand they may serve ONLY their children. Social host laws in New York place criminal and civil liability on parents who allow underage drinking in their homes, even if they didn’t supply the alcohol, even if the other parents gave their permission. Aside from being liable for any injury or damage… Read more »
Didn’t we just finish doing Teshuva on yom Kippur just a few days ago? We got a Clean slate for the coming year, let’s forgive and hope and have some optimism that we will have a good year bigashmiyus ubiruchniyus.
Let’s give everyone the benefit of the doubt that they did a complete teshuva and have resolved to fix their ways, both men and women.
MASHCHA, is a fancy word for ALCOHOL:
I am a 20 year old bochur, and I come from a very chasidishe family in Crown Hights. No one in my familly drinks too much on simchas torah; or any other time of the year. now when I finished 8th grade in oholei torah I had 28 kids in my class. Now going through the list , I can see that not one of them is an alchohol adict, or drug addict, or anything else. They DON’T drink on simchas torah exessive quantities.
#7 you are right on!
It’s all jealously which is by the way a איסור מדאורייתא may gd help them come see the light one day
We all need to take a stand becausethis whole drinking is totally out if hand
Writing so strong against drinking on Simchas Torah? People who don’t have chayus in holy things is a problem, a much bigger problem than “drinking.”
I think the problem starts way before kids have mashpiim,and start ‘drinking’ , it starts in the basic education of the youngest grades, (when they are young) lacking basic derech eretz (which also is missing at home), the fundamentals in Judaism, yiras shamayim, (forget about chassidus) mode ani, negel vasser, brachos in the morning, brachos before and after eating, krias shema, davening…… You can’t wake up when a bochur is 16 and have complaints, because he is on a 3rd grade level when it comes to yidishkiet and chasidishkiet. We have to shake up the lulav and smell the coffee!… Read more »
I am astounded and astonished by what is being said here. bochurim not being able to drink alcohol? no lchaim? go back to Pittsburgh!
U just started up with the women who look at this comments and u automatically lost there wil to understand the issue. the issue is much deeper then alcohol it comes out through alcohol and weed and that is just the show someone who drinks and smokes (not tabaco) has a deeper problem and is looking to get rid of it through escaping reality so please let’s start with a healthy education from the start and there will be no need to drink etc. It all comes down to our education. …and whoever has spare time on there hands put… Read more »
How dare #7 write: “Its all the jealous woman out there that cant drink complaining and saying its a bad thing ” – HUH?? As a woman I can tell you a little secret: we DO drink too! Plenty of my women friends drink WAY more than any man AND much more often!
actually i think the problem is that the bochrim dont say enough lechaim!!
if you look around youll see that the way it is that the chasidishe ones are the ones that say lechayim and the modern ones from the modern houses are the ones that are scared to touch this disgusting ,
lechayim has helped many of my freinds find the right path, and no they are not alcoholics!
#7….forget top ten, I think yours has made it into the top 3 dumbest and most ignorant comments. First off, there are plenty of women who ‘CAN’ and do drink, in moderation, of course, just for the same reason many men do. Second, I believe many of the leading Jewish addiction specialists are men, and have come out against drinking. The great and knowledgeable Rabbi Dr. Abraham Twerski, who, by the way, is a bigger chossid than your or I will ever be….has opposed excessive drinking for decades…bringing Torah values when giving his opinions
Well said
You heard unsupervised bochurim getting drunk what to do??
I know i’m gonna write a oped. problem solved!
Please state your name for the record.
Hope you understand what you write, cuz I definitely don’t.
I love you, brilliant comment!
You are part of the problem, blaming women. You have issues.
Agree
It is interesting to note that the Rebbe was very explicit about the rules of drinking, Getting drunk was absolutely prohibited for adults let alone children. Unfortunately, this community is riddled with problems in reference to drinking and drugs and just as we are vigilant, the mashpiim specifically, to enforce the Rebbe’s mivtzoim and Chasidus this should be top of their list. We cannot change the Rebbe’s words and directives when it does not fit our likes and dislikes! Comments like number 7 should be your first indication that education in this area is desperately needed and if we don’t… Read more »
In all the years of the COLlive comments, yours is in the top ten of stupidity and foolishenss. And I am man. Get a life, and stop being a Shikor. See Sichas Shabbos Shmini Tof shin Chof Gimmel, and MANY more Sichos.
Its all the jealous woman out there that cant drink complaining and saying its a bad thing
there’s no problem with drinking they just say there is because they can’t drink while men can.
Ever heard a man come out against drinking??
I agree100./. We can’t allow this to continue.
Is too wild and irresponsible.does not make
Any sense.
the fear and extreme “peer pressure” our beloved hanalah exhibit, coupled with their inability to convey the truth, without sadistic means of indoctrination (whose cunning is only best by the “call of the shofar”) disallows them to drop our excessive drinking behavior which severely damages our chabad image as well as our intellectual honesty…and now i think is an appropriate time to talk about the negative effects this has on the shidduch system……or at least it should!! either way we got big issues in ch, not just drinking…. but as long as we keep up the love we shall prevail… Read more »
BH
Agreed, they are cowards . and the drinking problem is complementing the drug problem.
our youth are not being taught not to drink just like they arent being taught not to take drugs
The poor excuse of this “Lubavitch system” that allows for children to drink. The “System” has created Alcoholics and drug addicts. When one drinks it is a gateway for them to try other things – drugs inevitably becomes one of those gateways.
This is not something I am making up. This is an everyday reality that I have lived with as a person who was married to an alcoholic/drug addict.
It’s all too true.
Thanks for writing.