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Thursday, 18 Shevat, 5782
  |  January 20, 2022

It’s Just One Date, They Keep Insisting

From the COLlive inbox: A young woman who has been in shidduchim writes about the insistence of people that she just go on one more date with a prospective person she knows she isn't clicking with. Full Story

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Ditto
November 9, 2021 8:18 pm

Yes, I remember forcing myself to try again for no reason

I'd love input
Reply to  Ditto
November 9, 2021 11:42 pm

I’d love it if a shadchan in the comment section can point to the percentage of successful matches after having to convince uninterested parties to date. It’ll really help determine the validity of this article’s arguments.

Mazel Tov!
Reply to  I'd love input
November 10, 2021 9:18 am

I don’t have stats, but a close friend told me she could never see herself with this particular guy she went out with – too dull, too boring, too quiet. She’s a lively personality. She was adamant about not wasting her time after one date, but the shadchan practically bribed her to go out one more time. She came back thinking he’s got more to him than she first thought.

45 years married, a huge family, grandchildren…and honestly, I think they have the best marriage of everyone I know – including me!

author: please read.
Reply to  Ditto
November 10, 2021 7:47 am

My credentials: married many years with grandchildren, been through the ringer myself and with children. Two points: 1) Please remember 100% of your experience is based on the ones that don’t work. I have seen the good oes turn around after a date that seemed not to work. 2) Distinguish between being repelled and not clicking. Being repelled is ground to stop the process. Not clicking requires frter explanation. Lastly, it is not an insult to. Your intelligence whn someone, looking out for you, suggests that you try again. No matter how intelligent or emotionally aware any of us are,… Read more »

Sorry for your pain
November 9, 2021 8:21 pm

I did this to my daughter , she is happily married now . I was not experienced and made her go out with guys that were not at all for her..
I Put her through alot of unnecessary emotional stress .
I was so anxious about her getting married that I kept telling myself it was the right thing to do.

Very well and maturely written
November 9, 2021 8:22 pm

The most important thing in life is: be you. Trust your gut instinct. As soon as you let someone tell you “what to do or how to feel” its already wrong. YOUR gut instinct is ALWAYS RIGHT! Basically when people tell you how you should be or how you should feel – it means just “basically ” marry who WE DECIDE FOR YOU TO MARRY. Since we “love you” and want the best for you. You dont have a choice on your own. And if you stand up for yourself, you are put down: you’re too picky, choosy etc… stand… Read more »

Really
Reply to  Very well and maturely written
November 9, 2021 11:40 pm

Of all advice out there, “your gut instinct is always right!” has got to be from the worst . Your gut feeling could be right, but it could also be wrong. Judge each situation objectively; your gut feelings should only serve to support a decision, it shouldn’t ever be the premise of a decision.

Applying this to shidduchim, if your gut is telling you something specific is off, explore the concern. If it’s factual, follow the facts and thank your gut. If the facts contradict your gut, ignore your gut feeling.

Correct
Reply to  Really
November 10, 2021 1:05 am

I remember overhearing someone just recently say just before they got engaged about trusting their gut. Unfortunately the engagement broke off a couple of weeks later. Gut and instincts are important, but so is making an educated decision.

Yes really
Reply to  Really
November 10, 2021 12:07 pm

As a women over 30 and I could speak for others as well, I’ll repeat gut instinct has saved me from much unnecessary heartaches and horrible situations. Till you haven’t “been there done that” you cant understand. I’m not saying dont be objective, on the contrary. But my gut Instinct has always been right! For what I found out officially later about the person, I knew it all along from the beginning- thanks to listening to my gut instinct.

So true
November 9, 2021 8:23 pm

You will find the right one trust your gut

Totally agree
November 9, 2021 8:23 pm

Never go out a 2nd time. You might feel uncomfortable.

Thank you!
November 9, 2021 8:29 pm

Thank you for spelling out exactly how I am feeling in regards to dating. Your article has given me the ability and knowledge to stand up for myself when needed and trust my gut even more.

Thank you anonymous.

A Mom of children in shiduchim
November 9, 2021 8:39 pm

Point well taken. Thank you for this article.

It's about marriage, not dating
November 9, 2021 8:43 pm

When you get married, it doesn’t mean that everything magically goes smoothly forever. When spouses don’t see eye-to-eye, you handle it like going on “one more date”: give it another try!

....
Reply to  It's about marriage, not dating
November 9, 2021 11:21 pm

Whoosh!

Ouch
Reply to  It's about marriage, not dating
November 10, 2021 1:45 pm

I don’t think anyone that is dating in a serious way believes that life after marriage is smooth sailing. All the more reason to ensure that the person you’re marrying is going to be one you’ll be able to ride the waves with.

It's been a while
November 9, 2021 9:02 pm

I was wondering when the next COL shidduchim article would come out.

Wow. Shout out to you for this!!
November 9, 2021 9:09 pm

I appreciate you putting it out to the world. Exactly my thoughts and feelings!!

One SECOND....
November 9, 2021 9:18 pm

My daughter was ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that she was FOR SURE not marrying the boy after dating ONE time.

I, as her mother, was totally fine with her skipping date two because she’d been dating for years already and I trusted her instincts.

But the Shadchan convinced her to give it one more try because ‘that is what’s done’.

Indeed.

Boruch Hashem she’s happily married to the boy she was CERTAIN she would NEVER EVER marry

Thank you to those shadchanim for your tireless efforts.

And maybe, just maybe, let’s give these SECOND dates ONE more chance.

Responding
Reply to  One SECOND....
November 9, 2021 10:44 pm

The shadchin did her part but it was your daughter’s decision (hopefully and not forced) to decide. She could have decided no but she said yes and it bh worked out. This article is about matchmakers not giving the right to the bochur or girl to say “no” after one date, when they perfectly know it’s not for them. And that’s taking out their rights as grown adults.

Read the article
Reply to  One SECOND....
November 9, 2021 11:19 pm

Did you read the article she is tired of ppl telling her guess what I know someone blah blah blah
She says no trust her why do you think you know better
And why didn’t you trust your daughter when she said no? Why did you push her

got a point
Reply to  Read the article
November 10, 2021 3:05 am

“as her mother, was totally fine with her skipping date two”
Even so she still has a point that sometimes you have to push.

Did you read above comment? :)
Reply to  Read the article
November 10, 2021 7:13 am

It reads that the mother was totally fine with the daughter not going to a second date.
BH the Shadchante convinced her to try one more time and she’s happily married.

So true
November 9, 2021 9:18 pm

This article is so well written. Us mothers need to hear that reminder too about trusting our adult kids when they go out.
My mother in law once told me that she respects her children when they say no after a date even if they don’t have a good reason because they are following their gut. TZhey may not consciously know why so they find something trivial reason about the other person that bothers them. But in truth it’s just not their bashert.

Get it
Reply to  So true
November 10, 2021 7:03 am

Your mother-in-law’s advice is very wise. She treated her children like adults, and it sounds like they learned to function as adults. I can totally relate to the feeling Of something being off, amd pinning it on some trivial sounding thing because you can’t quite put your finger on it. This, coming from a person who ignored her gut, to Listen to those “older, experienced” people giving advice, with painful results. It’s high time to encourage young people to trust their gut! If you’re old enough to be getting married, you should be old enough to go through a proper… Read more »

I agree
November 9, 2021 9:23 pm

As someone also in dating, I whole heartily agree. Often times, people are made to feel vain for the reasons they aren’t interested so instead of being honest their lack of interest, they’ll use a generic excuse such as lacking chemistry… and the response to that is well chemistry develops… so the dating continues until it hits a dead end. The only time I feel it’s appropriate to push is when someone is unsure about things that wouldn’t bother them if they were clarified. Such as superficial societal standards that really have nothing to do with a healthy marriage. As… Read more »

Listen more
November 9, 2021 9:26 pm

I first hand can relate to most things in this article! One thing that is the hardest in this whole process is when the one going on a date is not listened to. I have had a few shatchanim who kept disregarding everything I had to say, and spent time telling me that what I felt is not right, that I should think different, that I should change what I want because what I’m telling them is not our there…. Meaning that none of the people on their list fit my description. And I’m not saying that every person that… Read more »

Thoughts on paper
November 9, 2021 9:30 pm

Spot on 100%.

Clarity is the biggest brocho
November 9, 2021 9:56 pm

As a bochur in dating…

There’s no simple fix.

I’ve been on the giving and receiving end of both sides, so I can understand an aspect of each.

At the end of the day…

Do your part, be fair to the people you date and yourself, and trust the One above.

Cheers!

My 2 cents
November 9, 2021 10:06 pm

For every instance of a couple working out because the shadchan/parents insisted on another date, there are probably 50 that don’t. And in those cases, instead of the relationship ending on neutral notes, these people will leave the dating process either resenting or despising the other one. I once went out with someone knowing beforehand it wasn’t for me (I wasn’t really given the option of saying no). After date #1, which was more than enough to confirm my suspicions, I actually recommended another name to the Shadchan to pass on. She pushed another date. Date #2 was so awful,… Read more »

The Torah
November 9, 2021 10:48 pm

There’s an idea in the Torah that once a couple has gone on a date (wherein the girl was forced to participate–much like the situation you describe), they can no longer withdraw from their relationship. I believe shadchanim are simply trying to reinforce the Torah, traditional way

Gross
Reply to  The Torah
November 10, 2021 12:57 am

Your comparison is vile. A date is not assault.

Who said anything about assault?
Reply to  Gross
November 10, 2021 11:44 am

Perhaps by “forced to participate,” the OP was referring to coercion by means of pittui, which isn’t assault

Can you explain?
Reply to  The Torah
November 10, 2021 5:28 am

I don’t understand what you mean? Please elaborate?

Source Please
Reply to  The Torah
November 10, 2021 5:31 am

Please provide a source and explain this “idea in the Torah” you speak of.

Truth!
Reply to  The Torah
November 10, 2021 10:14 am

This is also the source for Shadchanus Gelt! The prospective groom must pay 50 silver coins! This is an age old Mitzvah that must not be convoluted with “modern ideas”!

Oh my
November 9, 2021 11:29 pm

Biggest problem with dating is that both sides come to a date with “profile info”. This already gives impressions that are not real. Profiles are not accurate, they are fluffed. I was given 5 (one of which is my wife) and asked to choose. Honestly they all sounded the same. Its about time to ditch shadchanim and allow two people to meet on their own. What I mean is that after initial interest is shown between a man and women, give them room to feel their own emotions. A shadchan should not be the one to decide how they feel.… Read more »

November 9, 2021 11:35 pm

always trust your gut for sure. No rules like u all are sounding. Everyone is different.

Ms.
November 9, 2021 11:37 pm

My name is Elana I’ve been dating for 10 years now. Each time I date i feel like im getting closer to my bashert! I’ve met 45 wondeful young men throughout my journey and I deeply apreciate the work and patience the shadchanim had for me! I’m a deep and complex girl with wonderful middos but I just can seem to find someone with the same kind heart as me. Each boy I meet always has a bit of loshon hara he needs to tell me about his friends. For me thats a no go. if anyone has any names… Read more »

Mazel Tov!
Reply to  Ms.
November 10, 2021 9:27 am

If you are prepared to live in Israel I may know your Prince Charming.

But are you confusing a funny anecdote with malicious gossip? I can’t see any guy telling a date that Berel Shmerel denied breaking a window or Chaim Yankel smoked pot in the Yeshiva bathroom.

With the greatest respect, I find it unlikely that “real” (as in nasty & critical) LH would be given over on a date when both parties want to give a good impression. Think about it.

Unfortunately
November 10, 2021 12:01 am

The problem is, yes!! the Rebbe says a Shadchin should get paid for their duties. But when a shadchin pushes & don’t take NO for an answer, most times it’s to do with them getting paid……(I didn’t say all times) What will happen after Chuppah/ Sheva Brochos? Will the marraige last? On a negative point who is there to blame? Sorry to tell u, but if a shadchin is doing for money just to put food on the table & to save their family by “not” starving, it’s 100 percent wrong to push & force a couple to get married.… Read more »

Paid?
Reply to  Unfortunately
November 10, 2021 1:13 am

I’m not sure where this idea comes from that shadchanim are in it for the money. I’m not sure what motivates someone to become a shadchan, but money certainly isn’t it. First off, it isn’t much and certainly not worth the headache. In my experience, most shadchanim have refused to take any money unless they made a shidduch (and B”H we’re not financially struggling where they would feel bad taking from).

Positve
Reply to  Unfortunately
November 10, 2021 8:06 am

Keep on being positive and 😊

Don't hate
Reply to  Unfortunately
November 10, 2021 8:45 am

Don’t hate on the shadchanim. The system that we use needs them and relies on them and they get such a bad rap. They really are trying their best. Not saying you have to listen if they’re pushy etc, a shadchan is not a mashpia. They act as an in between for communication, they think of the idea, everything else is mashpia or parents! I like to leave the shadchan out of my feelings about the date and give them as little info as possible so there’s less up for discussion. You don’t owe them an explanation for your decisions…… Read more »

Yes!!!! So true!
November 10, 2021 12:20 am

Very well written. Very much agree! Trust your gut. You know best. You never have to give a reason to say no, it could just be not for you. Going out again often results in confusion and unnecessary stress that ends in a no anyway.

Spoiled and whiny
November 10, 2021 12:23 am

This article goes an and on and doesn’t at all reflect what goes on with most Shadchanim that are just there to help. Really no one wants or needs your favours to waste their time and money dating you. Just be a Mench and be clear and decisive that it’s not for you.
And don’t waste the Shadchan or the boys time. Be clear snd upfront before you date that you only want to go out once unless your sure that you click

Spoiled and whiny
November 10, 2021 12:27 am

This article goes an and on and doesn’t at all reflect what goes on with most Shadchanim that are just there to help. Really no one wants or needs your favours to waste their time and money dating you. Just be a Mench and be clear and decisive that it’s not for you.
And don’t waste the Shadchan or the boys time. Be clear snd upfront before you date that you only want to go out once unless your sure that you click

We are all different
November 10, 2021 1:20 am

There is not 1 size fits all
We are all different
I know many people that they were ready to stop dating and were told to continue and make a decision after the 5th time , very happily married
Some people they don’t get a direct click , they get an undirected click when they pause their dating and Start missing and feeling
For other people , this won’t work

Stuck as well
November 10, 2021 1:39 am

As someone who suffered in shidduchim, I agree with the author’s point 100%. Unfortunately I lost my respect and trust in my parents, as well as many others, due to the pressure they were placing on me to continue even though I was sure I didn’t want to.
I wish we could prevent other girls or Bocherim from such dramatic experiences. Although this article is written towards the parents and shadchanim, we need to address those going into shidduchim and tell them to follow their instincts, and not to allow others to make decisions for them.

YES!!!
November 10, 2021 2:53 am

I have a cardinal rule: I go out on two dates, minimum (because first date awkwardness, and all). However, I’ve had 2 shidduchim that after ONE date, the thought of going out with them again was freaking me out. Not that they were horrible, but it was just…I knew. I knew viscerally that this was never going to work. I was just so happy my mother understood. I have had friends, though, who try to pull the same guilt tactics. Like, no, thank you, I have the shadchan for that. I don’t need you to try to guilt me into… Read more »

I had this
November 10, 2021 4:24 am

I agree with almost all of this article. I dated a guy and was pushed to go on date after date. Each time I was told there was another reason why the date wasn’t good. by the 3rd and 4th dates I barely spoke. I was thoroughly bored. He probably thought I was a quiet aidel maidel. On the 5th date that I was again convinced to go on, he PROPOSED. I went on that date determined that this was it – I was telling him it was over. Needless to say it didn’t go very well. After that, I… Read more »

Couldn’t have said it better myself
November 10, 2021 8:05 am

Yes yes yes and yes. Been there too many times.

Consult!
November 10, 2021 8:18 am

Consulting with a mashpia is the way to go! Mine always helps me feel out if giving a second a try makes no sense, even when the shadchan insists that it’s “menchlich”. When you have a mashpia backing you up, you have the confidance to say “no” to that pushy shadchan, (and even unfortunately your parents if need be).

Mashpia
Reply to  Consult!
November 10, 2021 1:59 pm

Sometimes even mashpias push.

Shadchan
November 10, 2021 9:20 am

I’ve B”H made many successful shidduchim and had to put up with many people with your kvetchy attitude. Obviously, when the Shidduch goes through, these people forget how hard you tried and how you worked so hard to get them to meet their bashert. It’s the ones who didn’t find their bashert YET who will continue bad mouthing shadchanim and insisting that they know better. I’ve made B”H enough shidduchim to say this with confidence. So many of my dates had to be convinced to meet, even briefly for one date or for coffee, and went on to happy marriages.… Read more »

You already know it will work
Reply to  Shadchan
November 10, 2021 2:02 pm

Just tell me to meet at the Ohel. I’ll be there

Disagree
Reply to  Shadchan
November 11, 2021 9:47 am

After dating for many years I felt as if I myself wrote this letter and now that I’m married I still have the same opinion. So you saying that these feelings are coming from a place of hurt and once she gets married then she wouldn’t feel this way… is exactly the point of her article. You do not think of single people as adults who can make rational decisions.

friend dated twice
November 10, 2021 9:25 am

My friend in yeshiva went on a date. Afterwards told me all the reasons it wasn’t shayich, and why it’s not a good idea. The shadchan made them date a second time, he came back beaming. Now happily married etc…
You can only get so much from 1 meeting, I have hired people after one interview only to see them in a different light when they started working, I have also reluctantly hired people after 1 interview, not having good feelings, but ended up being great hires. You can’t know a person after one meeting.

I hear
November 10, 2021 9:30 am

I hear how the writer is feeling but remember that it’s very important specifically in Shiddchim to Allways have מוח שליט על הלב

DATING COACH!!
November 10, 2021 9:47 am

Perhaps this young lady needs to meet with a reputable dating coach. From reading this very depressing & a tad whiny article, I think she may be misconstruing what is said. Cut the guy the same slack you would want for yourself. A knee-jerk reaction to a nervous guy just isn’t fair. And if anyone goes to a date with a negative attitude, well, what does he/she expect? Bells & whistles? You are set up by someone who thinks you’re potentially compatible. You’re headed to date #46? WOW! You obviously have shadchanim who think highly of you! But if you… Read more »

this is the whole point of the article
Reply to  DATING COACH!!
November 10, 2021 1:57 pm

read the article, you are assuming automatically that she doesn’t know what she wants and her decisions are irrational, you are not trusting her judgment
but you think she is old enough to date and get married but you don’t trust her? that is literally the whole point of the article

Divorce Rate
November 10, 2021 10:38 am

Every shadchan boasts about their success rate but no one boasts their divorce Rate, it would be interesting to have that knowledge publicly available so people can make a decision of which shadchan to work with.

Always trust your MIND! Never trust ur gut.
November 10, 2021 1:51 pm

Your gut does not mean anything.
The only thing you should trust is your mind. The mind is ur nefesh elokis. Ur gut, ur heart, is the nefesh habihames. Which always tries to dissuade you to the wrong direction.

Believe that Hashem will send you your shidduch. And your strong bitachon will get you to the chuppah.

I wish you much success!

The heart
Reply to  Always trust your MIND! Never trust ur gut.
November 10, 2021 2:53 pm

The Rebbe says that there must be Hamshachas Halev in shidduchim.

Correction
November 10, 2021 4:07 pm

Your gut is not your heart. Your gut is your 6th sense telling you that this food is not kosher even before you see proof that it’s not kosher. You don’t even have to see the hashgacha, your neshama is already telling you it’s not. When you check for proof and find that it taka not kosher – thank your pnimiyus gut instinct for that!

Shadchan equals Money, fame
November 10, 2021 9:39 pm

Most shadchanim do shiduchim for limelight. There’s a competition between shadchanim who makes how many and they even discuss their dates as they happen. Unfortunately some shadchanim play coach which turns to disaster.

Just not attracted!
November 11, 2021 3:07 pm

When your “gut” is telling you it won’t work, it’s quite likely you just aren’t attracted to the person, their looks, their voice, their vibe, their presence. Very hard, very awkward to tell that to a shadchan… Lack of attraction is never a legit reason to reject someone as a potential hire or a potential friend; it’s more than enough of a reason not to date them again! #believethekids

Finally
November 15, 2021 1:18 pm

I have a very close friend,who knew at the first date that it was not for her.The shadhanim pushed,pushed,pushed,until a hurried engagement after 4 dates,despite my friend’s huge doubts.They used every classic guilt inducing argument.What can I say?she is now stuck in a very unhappy marriage,where both want out but can’t because of 8 children together.

Parents responsibility
November 17, 2021 8:13 pm

I feel blessed that I had parents who handled my shidduchim, and also served as a buffer between me and the shadchan. They believed me when I said no, and handled the shadchanims pressure without involving me too much. I hope other parents do the same.

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