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Monday, 22 Tishri, 5780
  |  October 21, 2019

I Traveled Before Marrying, And…

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Sholom bayis article thank you
Guest
Sholom bayis article thank you

BH thank you aliza for your wonderful article expressed so well. It is especially appreciated with the Rebbe’s horoa to you on this important subject. Thank you for sharing it! The privilege of building a bayis neeman b’Yisroel is a pleasure and responsibility.

very well said!
Guest
very well said!

celebrating my 10th year anniversary soon and I couldn’t agree more. We have thrills travelling as a family and occasionally one night getaways as a couple- it’s a thousand times more enjoyable when you’re with someone you have developed a deep relationship with…

Well written ..
Guest
Well written ..

Nu, hopefully the boys will read this article, get properly informed and step on it to get married earlier on. It will make a lot of girls very very happy, if this is what it takes to decrease the difficulty of the ” Shidduch crisis”!

Yisroel
Guest
Yisroel

Yup. Excellent article. Been there, done that and still doing.

To the author:
Guest
To the author:

You stated that you had already spent much of your life travelling, and then got cold feet after you were engaged to be married. It goes without saying that the Rebbe would encourage you not to take a break from your engagement!

How is that relevant to a young man or woman straight out of yeshiva or seminary?

Very Well writen
Guest
Very Well writen

18

to 5
Guest
to 5

so your saying that fora baalas tshuva it makes sense to say “What bigger thrill can there be than this?”, but to a bochur who has just left yeshiva (a place where’s been learning torah values for years) he cant be told these words?
Do you think being in yeshiva is depriving him from “the real fun life”? If so, you would probably disagree with Torah values in general

not time to travel when you get married
Guest
not time to travel when you get married

With all due respect, as much as life is more exciting and meaningful with your life partner, often a baby is born within the first year. So there’s not much time to travel and develop your independence.
I don’t think a year or 2 out of sem to develop yourself and see the world takes away from sharing your the rest of your life with your spouse

Thrilled
Guest
Thrilled

I would be thrilled if my husband would go with me on an enjoyable trip!

Relavent
Guest
Relavent

You hit on a very contemporary and relevant issue of more and more people wanting to travel and enjoy ‘single hood’ before getting ‘tied down’ by marriage. 2 points. 1. There needs to be a more convincing argument for stopping someone from joining the trend of extended leasure. 2. Getting to root of ‘avoiding’ marriage often needs an intervention of a mashpia or a dating/marriage professional.

Times are different
Guest
Times are different

Sounds like you’re from an older generation. I still disagree with getting married young.

If only we were all this chassidish
Guest
If only we were all this chassidish

Not everyone is like you. Therefore I cannot relate.

this is so touching
Guest
this is so touching

deep, thoughtful, true and inspiring.

Love the perspective!
Guest
Love the perspective!

Very well written, and an interesting perspective with much depth. Thank you.

Beautiful article
Guest
Beautiful article

Expressed so well. So beautiful. Real tochen

To #3
Guest
To #3

Tell the girls not to be picky….
It might be easier…
I have a friend that is an amazing person but because girls think all about them selfs and their family image they will have a issue.
This boy has an amazing family, has worked hard his whole life and is on shlichus… Talk about shidduch crisis!

There is no right or wrong here....
Guest
There is no right or wrong here....

You can’t say one thing works for everyone…We are all different and if I want to travel before I get married, so be it. If you want to get married first and travel with your spouse, so be it.
As long as we all continue to live a Chassidishe life, who cares who travelled where first?? One size does not fit all.

Just Saying!!

Wondering
Guest
Wondering

Seems like after any critique of this article there is a barrage of effusive compliments of its content. This article did give food for thought, but much more could and should be said on this topic. Let’s flesh it out and allow dating people a voice in this conversation.

22 Year Old Bocher
Guest
22 Year Old Bocher

Oh, how I’d love to start thinking about getting married and raising a Yiddishe family; it’s just terribly hard when both of my parents are lacking the emotional intelligence to enable me to consult with them on matters such as these.

Marry Young
Guest
Marry Young

It is also healthier for offspring to have mothers and fathers of lower age as per statistics.

If you wander too much for thrills. you can also get lost.

The Bachelor

Now from the ffb perspective
Guest
Now from the ffb perspective

Excellently written btw and fro those commenting that it’s ok for her she’s been there done it … Here my thoughts.
Somethings in this world is just not meant for us frum chassidim and traveling is one of them ! Especially nowadays!
All sort of ppls and situation arises and a Jewish person does not put them selves there .
Marraige , torah learning and children are our future and we need our boys to go right from learning into marriage!

Very insightful
Guest
Very insightful

Thank you for writing

40+ years of marriage
Guest
40+ years of marriage

DO NOT get married young. You aren’t mature enough – too many toys to be bought, places to visit, people to meet. Like someone said, it’s a different world from my day. How many people got divorced in the 70’s after just a few years – or even days? It’s epidemic now, every week another scandal horrifies us. People aren’t satisfied with one VIP in their life if you get my drift. Couples are too close with each other. Grow up first, have some interesting experiences (between them my kids went to Tahiti, New Zealand, Australia, Central America, all over… Read more »

With a due respect i really dont get this
Guest
With a due respect i really dont get this

What is wrong with a buchur doing what he wants?! again it seems like we dont trust our buchurims choices! where is there bechiroh? what you want them to get married right away and then look back 5 years later what am i doing here maybe i figure myself out, well opps its too late you need to figure out your wife and kids parnosoh and….. where is the rush again im not talking 10 year but 2 or 3 years is normal, and who said everyones reason for not getting married is because they want to travel?!

Marriage Deepens You
Guest
Marriage Deepens You

I’ve often wondered about these “globetrotters” — those who tally up “experiences” yet in the end have nothing to show for them. No real internal change, nothing. Just an emptiness. I traveled a lot in my youth, but I don’t feel any wiser for it. Marriage itself, as the Rebbe implied, is an adventure — a journey where hopefully the partners grow. Don’t get me wrong — I am not against travel or some recreation. We all can use a change of pace. But pointless traveling — just going somewhere without any plan or purpose — is not only wasteful,… Read more »

How many roads must a man walk down...
Guest
How many roads must a man walk down...

I wonder how many of your readers recognize “Peter, Paul and Mary” etc. Regardless, that was a different time and a different era. So, too are individuals. Thinking of the couples I know, happily married, miserably married, divorced, remarried etc. each one has a different story. Some happy, some sad, some trapped and desperate, some angry… Of these there is no consistent history – some met and married early, others later, some took two (even three) marriages to find their true partner, some ‘lived together’ before marriage… The point is there is no consistent formula or pattern that predicts the… Read more »

Really Nice Article.
Guest
Really Nice Article.

Well written, beautifully expressed, with love and care.

Clearly someone who has her feet on the ground but head in the right place.

Response to number eight
Guest
Response to number eight

How exactly is traveling the world a part of developing yourself??? Don’t convince yourself.Traveling the world is fun and adventurous.Developing yourself is through learning, giving and working.

In reply to number 3
Guest
In reply to number 3

You’re making a huge mistake! its not the Bochurim who need to read these articles and move forward. . . its their MOTHERS! If you would only now how many mothers out there don’t even inform their sons of potential names! They hear, decide and cross out most of the names that come up without even consulting or asking their sons opinions! They’re big boys! I talk from my own experiences trying to marry off my 3 daughters, and the experiences of many friends too Step back mothers, and give your sons some choice and say in any names that… Read more »

To #26
Guest
To #26

I’m leaving on a jet plane… So many times I played around… I tell you now – they don’t mean a thing.

Amazing
Guest
Amazing

Amazing answer, and beautifully explained. Thank you so much for sharing.

(Now, if only I knew who or what Machu Picchu is . . .)

Danger Ahead
Guest
Danger Ahead

Hashem made our bodies so that at a certain age we are attracted to being married. If you don’t get married when your body is ready – there are alternate ways to deal with the instincts – most of the ways are not healthy. I know the Rebbe recommends certain methods. I think having to do with Moach Shalit Al HaLev. Not a trait that is strengthened while traveling with friends and looking for adventure. Girls may think their unfulfilled instincts are not as dangerous. But young women traveling for adventure will attract very smooth con artists. Marriageable age is… Read more »

Great article!
Guest
Great article!

Exceptional article. I am rarely impressed with op-ed articles. This article is an exception. A beautiful message based on Torah and Chassidic viewpoints. We build homes on foundations of Torah and mitzvos as illuminated by Chassidus. This article has those same building blocks.

Citizen Berel
Guest
Citizen Berel

There are some very strange comments on this thread.

When did it become a inyon atzmi to travel and ‘see the world’ before, during or after marriage.

Advice: If your potential is putting off marriage to ‘see the world’ you might want to consider someone more serious because you are likely (but not necessarily!) dealing with a lightweight.

But that can be your thing, you know, cause lightweights need to marry too!

Aliza
Guest
Aliza

Don’t know you BUT what a well written article.Much food for thought.I didn’t travel or live the glorious life of adventure even though i am a spirited person.I don’t feel i missed out. The grass always looks greener……..
Lets get a grip on things and recognize the exciting world has many negatives….make your private life exciting thru torah values, Rabbeim’s directives…..
Hatzlocha to all the young …

Thank you Aliza
Guest
Thank you Aliza

LOOK AT THE POWER OF ONE WORD OF THE REBBE

Let’s farbreng this shabbos with this concept !
Lchaim my freinds and some of these comments are so off the chart kinda disturbing
Relax and enjoy life and stop looking for issues and being so perimative
In cahssidus it’s called mochin dgadlus
Thing big and do big

Att number 19
Guest
Att number 19

Find an older person who you respect and ask them to guide you help you find a shidduch. And maybe they can speak to your parents and explain to them where you arw coming from.

to #32
Guest
to #32

That is one of worst thought out concepts I have ever heard First of all, marriage hasn’t been around for that long. It’s a more modern concept. You think Adam and Chava got married? If so, you need to brush up on your history. Marriage became a thing when religion became a thing-specifically monotheism. Your entire argument is so generalized it’s ridiculous. And just because someone is a thrill seeker doesn’t mean they’re one because they’re ready for marriage but aren’t pursuing it And also, are you aware that people are called INDIVIDUALS for a reason? Everyone is their own… Read more »

Finally
Guest
Finally

Finally someone writes about this “new” system of traveling to much as possible… hope this article will help to change the plans for our future bochurim and bochuros.
And not to mention all the nisyonos in those trips… And the fact that are far from house… Like escaping from your environment to where everything is mutor (like the israelis backpackers… וד”ל). Is very different however the “merkoz shlichus” bochurim that go for a holy purpose, they’re sended etc

Parents are the problem
Guest
Parents are the problem

Both Rabbi Shea and Aliza are right Most frum communities are encouraging their children to start dating much younger then we are. Giris from 18/19 & boys from 21. But there is one key difference: financial support. In those communities – chassidish & litvish- the parents of the chosson & kallah agree to pay all expenses for an agreed amount of time. This enables the young couple to grow together and establish their marriage before they take on the burden of bills. If we as parents are willing to pay our childs expenses as a single (according to our means)… Read more »

ATTENTION # 18
Guest
ATTENTION # 18

You sound like one of the “younger” generation that gets married and as soon as something doesn’t go your way, your out the door and devorced. I am PROUD to say I am from the “older” generation and got married straight out of high school, went on to have an exciting life of raising a beautiful adoring bunch of jems (aka children), and though things were hard at times I loved EVERY SINGLE SECOND of having and raising my children with my partner at my side, and now have these amazing wonderful memories of all the trips we took as… Read more »

TO NUMBER 23
Guest
TO NUMBER 23

You are dead WRONG! I’m B”H married much longer than you and B”H my children are all happily married to the most wonderful spouses. but giving kids a chance to roam the world on their own is INSANE! especially in this day and age! I have a dear friend whose daughter wanted (and did) to travel the world before settling down to a married life, but was not as lucky as you and today she is still single, depressed and old enough to almost be a grandmother. Yes, she has a ton of pictures of all her travels and for… Read more »

To #34
Guest
To #34

“Traveling the world” is merely a term used for lack of better description, and is not meant to be taken literally.

There is no “inyan” in travelling the world specifically. It means that a bochur or girl, after spending their entire life in a system of school, camp, school again, back to camp, then smicha or seminary, want a little time to be independent, and not rush straight into marriage and kids.

Spending time with other single friends is a very positive and healthy thing to do.

nothing to do with chasidishkeit
Guest
nothing to do with chasidishkeit

This is a smartly written article and has nothing to do with chasidishkeit but rather to understanding what’s truly meaningful and enjoyable in life. Traveling the worl before getting married is fun but could have many pitfalls.. the world is has some very alluring thing in it that could confuse someone from what they really want. Getting married young and traveling right away is a mistake too as a young couple should be focusing on getting to know each other and setting up a home (which if you take marriage seriously comes with some real adjustments and could be very… Read more »

Singapore
Guest
Singapore

So instead of going to Singapore zing a por nigunim alternatively sing and pour and say lechaim.

Citizen Berel
Guest
Citizen Berel

To 42: Thank you for your response. “Spending time with other single friends is a very positive and healthy thing to do.” That’s simply not true. Torah obligates you to get married at 18, unless you are learning Torah. So spending time with single friends (unless you are learning Torah) is most certainly not a positive or healthy thing do but it is a profoundly negative and an unhealthy thing to do. Someone very, very smart says “it’s not good for a man to be alone.” This is all modern claptrap. Modern man has a lot to say about marriage—especially… Read more »

Thank You for Commenting
Guest
Thank You for Commenting

I put a lot of time, effort, thought and emotion into my writing and I appreciate all the comments.

Of course, I love the positive comments. Thank you for your kind words. It is inspiring for me.

And to those of you who do not agree with my ideas, thank you for reading my words, and caring enough to share your ideas.

This is a complex topic worthy of more discussion and evaluation.

When a writer gets the instant response of comments – it makes writing more exciting 🙂

Wishing you all a good Shabbos, a good Chodesh and a Purim Sameach.
Aliza

#46
Guest
#46

Actually not so modern as before matan Torah, people felt they knew better than Hashem as well, and there were all the problems back then too. Torah, written, and the the teachings of our chachamim and nesiim in each generation, gives us the tools to deal with our flaws and uplift ourselves to the fullest potential we can reach. However, we have free choice whether to choose life or wander in the darkness of doubt and emptiness. When someone comes with a horaah of the Rebbe, and people say it’s not relevant, it’s a polite way of saying, I am… Read more »

To Citizen Berel #46
Guest
To Citizen Berel #46

If we follow your argument, then why are our bochurim not looking for a shidduch at 18? Why do they spend another 4-5 years in the system? (And spare me the “because they are learning” excuse. 18 is 18, is it not?) Clearly, elements of Torah and halacha are left to interpretation by scholars and sages. As the saying goes “ask your local rav”. That said, your argument is void. Now, let me tell you about myself. I am married for over a decade B”H. After I received my smicha, I spent two years in “770”, which really means that… Read more »

to #40
Guest
to #40

In the litvish world many aren’t married because parents just can’t afford to support the children. Or they are overburdened with the expense. It doesn’t necessarily work for them why introduce it to us.

nice article but.....
Guest
nice article but.....

“Ive got bills. I gotta pay… So Im gonna work work…”

Thank you Aliza
Guest
Thank you Aliza

fast forward 15/25 years it would be interesting to hear what these wanting to travel explore the world youngsters are saying then.
The Rebbe z’l saw this need many moons ago and merkaz shlichus in a holy and pure way was set up.As the saying was “Join Lubavitch and see the world!” Bochurim and girls can go on shlichus and follow Torahs halachik guidlines and travel too.
hatzlocha to see the light……..

Citizen Berel
Guest
Citizen Berel

To # 49 Rabbonim have come out in the past couple years strongly encouraging getting married younger, and there was a very large effort to that effect not more than two years ago with numerous well respected Chabad Rabbonim on the list, reb Chayim Sholom Deitch and if I recall correctly Rabbi Glugovksky (Rechovoit) were among them, you can do the research if you care but the letter used words like tragedy. The system is that you learn torah after after yeshiva and get married, as bochurim have declined in recent years there has been less learning which is why… Read more »

not all smokers get lung cancer
Guest
not all smokers get lung cancer

Not every young person who travels around for interesting experiences will end up with problems as a result of their travels.
Maybe they don’t have such a strong Yetzer Hara. Maybe they do not attract trouble. Or maybe they are lucky.
Just like not all smokers get lung cancer.
There is a risk when traveling for adventure – it is not 100% dangerous.
Each person has to decide for themselves if they want to do what the Rebbe and Rabbi’s recommend – or put themselves at risk.

yes, thankyou
Guest
yes, thankyou

thankyou for the deep insights, well thought out from someone who obviously knows how to evolve their thoughts and then share them. I respect your way of sharing these thoughts.

Eech neshama is unique
Guest
Eech neshama is unique

There are people on both sides of the fence. To say everyone should marry young is an extreme and won’t play out well. To those who do meet the right person at a young age- don’t push it off for silly reason’s. Based on the comment’s I’ve read so far, most people know if its better to wait a little. As well, Myer’s Briggs is a good indicator to a person’s character, and if you want to travel when your married, then marry someone who wants to travel! I wish everyone the best of luck and to find the right… Read more »

To Citizen Berel #53
Guest
To Citizen Berel #53

I’m not interested in getting into a long, drawn-out argument. Is this statement “but frankly anybody who writes I love my wife and family but…. in any context shouldn’t giving marriage advice to the next generation” pulled from your own “boich”? I wasn’t diminishing my love for my family in any way, shape or form. There were no “buts”. I was stating that in ADDITION to my love for my family, I also have a valuable and wholesome network of friends that have immense impact on my life in a purely positive way. I was also stating that this would… Read more »

Citizen Berel
Guest
Citizen Berel

to 57: You went on an length how you didn’t want to get into a lengthy argument… Your ‘But’ meant nothing more than that you have a rich social life outside your family life, which is in fact the most insidious effect of waiting too long to get married. The going out with the guys (that makes you more spiritual!) and maintaining a crew isn’t anything we’ve known in Jewish let alone chasidic history but is a modern creature and a function of our leisure society. The Torah — I know I know interpretations and whatnot … — says that… Read more »

no honymooning in first year of marrige
Guest
no honymooning in first year of marrige

“אין ענין (מקום?) לנסיעות שונות בשנה הראשונה של(אחר?) החתונה”
is the rebbe’s answer to many newly wedds

To #57 Answer to #53
Guest
To #57 Answer to #53

The description of your pre-marriage travels sounds more like productive activities with Shluchim – than what this article is referring to. Such experiences are – as you say – beneficial as an independent person – but the word ONLY is incorrect. If you choose to give up being independent in marriage – that is a choice – I guess. It is not a given. Especially in a society where there are extensive opportunities for men only and women only – an individual should not give up independence and individuality because they are married. I think this article is trying to… Read more »

Respectfully disagree
Guest
Respectfully disagree

i am also a BT, as this author describes herself. I also studied during my twenties and travelled, and was blessed to have those years to discover myself. In my case and in hers, this led me find Torah and Mitzvos, and I decided to follow this path, it was a choice that I was blessed to have the opportunity to make, as I grew into the person that I am. Now married, I continue to grow and evolve WITH my husband, as does he; but the core of who I am was grounded in that self discovery from years… Read more »

searching
Guest
searching

Following on the subject of what age to get married.
I understand The Rebbe said it is a question of maturity,. In this
age it seems to be a problem.
What does it mean maturity?

Personal attacks
Guest
Personal attacks

citizen Berel, you should give it a rest. They guy you are insulting sounds like he has a very healthy and meaningful life with his family and friends! How wonderful! The fact that you feel you need to (unsuccessfully) put him down, indicates a significant lacking in your own life. Let’s remember a little thing called Ahavas Yisroel, isn’t that one of the Rebbe’s teachings? Or do you also pick and choose which teachings you follow?

Not these days
Guest
Not these days

Times have changed. We don’t like to admit that things are different, but they are, and ignoring it won’t help. So …

1: Don’t rush to get married.

2: Don’t get engaged after 3 dates, take as much time as you need and don’t let parents or shadchonim rush you.

It wasn’t always this way, but our children are a new and different generation, and statistically divorce is now far more likely if failing to adhere to #1 and #2.

#64 - Not these days
Guest
#64 - Not these days

Please site your statistics that show divorce is less when your rules are followed.

Are you saying things are different in America – or would you suggest your rules for Eretz Yisroel as well?

There are many couples in the Chabad community who dated briefly when young – and have stable, healthy family life.
It would be interesting to survey the divorced individuals in the Chabad community, and see if there is a pattern in how old they were when they married and for how long they dated.

to 63
Guest
to 63

to 63: You may be correct about ahavas yisroel thing, I’ve been thinking about it. At the end of the day, though, we are having a very public back and forth about and in connection to a critical issue, so I’m not sure that we need hold back. I’m not sure what type of marriage he has, but do strongly believe that the his approach to marrying and marriage is just about the opposite from that which we are used to and that we should be encouraging, and is in fact alarmingly reminiscent of the American attitude towards marriage when… Read more »

The Real Reason To Marry Young
Guest
The Real Reason To Marry Young

The best thing in life is Grandchildren.
They give you all the Thrills you can ever imagine.
Being a young and energetic grandparent makes the grandchildren adventure even more fun.
Gotta get married to have those kids so you and can enjoy the grandkids. Be careful to bring up your kids in a way that they will want to have a family and share it with you.
Grandkids give life a whole new spin.

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