By Yehudis
Tishrei is winding down. The Yomim Tovim are over, the guests are going home. My son is heading back to Yeshiva, and I’m apprehensive.
The apprehension is not because of his chavrusas, roommates, or his learning (although I worry plenty about that too). It’s due to what I have privately dubbed, “the phone wars.”
My son has a smartphone.
It’s filtered, the internet is blocked and there’s no service, only wi-fi. But my son is technologically advanced, it’s 2016, and I’m not as clueless as he thinks (or wishes).
Although the official rule in his Yeshiva (and many others) is no smartphones, the unofficial rule is that it’s OK to bring one as long as it’s turned into the Rosh Yeshiva once you get there.
The problem is what happens on the way to Yeshiva, when the phones are returned for a Shabbaton or school trip. Or when the phones that are “forgotten” and not turned in at all.
Because of all this, we don’t let our son bring his phone to Yeshiva at all. Hence the “phone wars.”
Without fail, every time it’s time to go back to Yeshiva, it starts. “I’m the only one without a phone in Yeshiva. Everyone else has one. What am I going to do on the way?” And finally, the trump card. “You know I can buy a smartphone in the store for $35? That’s what a lot of other kids do. One phone for the parents and hanhalah and another to do what they want.”
Please don’t get me wrong. Boruch Hashem, my son is a good kid. He tries really hard to do the right thing. But like any other teenager, he feels left out when everyone else has or knows something he doesn’t have or is not in on the conversation.
And in this case, when 95% of the other bochurim have phones, and he doesn’t, it’s hard. Very hard. I completely understand him. Peer pressure is awful. Even so, I don’t give in. The phone stays here. But I can’t help wondering why we have to go through this each and every time.
I don’t profess to have all the answers. But I do know this. If there was an official and enforced rule in Yeshiva that absolutely no phones are allowed, the majority of kids wouldn’t bring phones at all.
Obviously, consequences would have to be spelled out beforehand and the consequences carried out. Something along the lines of confiscating the phone and sending it back to the parents would probably work.
Throwing it out is an option too. But the same way a parent wouldn’t let their son bring non-Jewish reading material because it’s not allowed, most parents wouldn’t let their kids bring a phone either.
Clearly, there will be some kids that flout the rule. Either their parents won’t know, or won’t care. But they can be dealt with in the same way that those who break any major rule are dealt with.
Perhaps some might think I’m being harsh or overreacting, but there is no legitimate reason that a bochur who (presumably) is in Yeshiva to learn could need a smartphone. Extracurricular activities? Definitely. Sports? Shabbatons? Sure. A smartphone? Absolutely not.
Even though what you say sounds right, we can’t be hypocritical. We’re the Jewish nation, and yeshiva means wholehearted immersion in Torah. The internet is too distracting. Parents who believe in purity and Torah have to give up their own usage…at least limit it severely.
As someone who has been through the Chabad system, I think allowing your son to keep possession of his smart phone is the proper decision. The yeshiva system maintains a monopoly on ideas is in many ways intellectually restrictive. To allow the bochurim to have a smart phone gives them an outlet from what can be a very oppressive environment, and may reinforce their own beliefs once they are exposed to real world information. While there is virtue in raising kids in a “pure” atmosphere, if there is no balance between the yeshiva environment and world we live in, many… Read more »
I should imagine most of these blogs are sent from an iPhone?
All yeshiva auctions feature I phones and I pads in their prize collection
All photographed sessions of the kinus ahow many shluchim on their smartphones
All camp counsellors communicate via whatsapp groups including head staff
Where are the role models?
The generation these days ! What would avraham, itzchak and yaakov avinu say? What would moshe or yehoshua think ? What would the rebbes reaction be ?
Ad mosai !!
like #42, we have 2 sins back in Yeshiva with no smart phones though, they tell me that there are kids there who have smart phones without parent knowledge. Keep trying every incentive to push off that smart phone bit when a child / Teen acts out because of being told to put away electronics then you know that its a real addictive behavior . Taking our son to a frum therapist was a good start to get him to understand limits and dangers . now its safe stuff with Gruntig and more but when he can spend 12 hours… Read more »
Yup no matter what I say they are mature and they discerned it I believe with my fellow Americans ok
Smartphones are the BEST!!!! You can look up ANYTHING you want EVERYWHERE you want ! It’s all good ! I don’t know what I’d do without it !!!!!! I love my phone!!!!! I’m not addicted or anything but I do use it 29/7
First they give us internet, now smartphones , hashem yishmor! The world wide web is dangerous, we must be strong, chassidus belongs in our hearts and minds, it is through our determination yiddishkiet will survive In this generation there is so much pain and aggravation when i was young there were no phones!!! So get ready, get set its time to go! The purpose of our journey we should know, wuestions challanges and more, we must shut the internt door, beacuse if you actually want to do what the Rebbe says and live a chassidic lifestyle Then rember ker a… Read more »
Best solution i heard from a friend (i myself know the Shmutz and keep far from it with filters): The education is to bring the kid not to want to have access to Shmutz (whatever level he consederes Shmutz, but you got me), the yetzer is to just do a click, but won’t bring the person to a pre-meditated buying “second phone without filter” because HE HIMSELF doesn’t want that Shmutz, nevertheless to be one click away and control yourself is a HUGE Nisayon, so that is what filters are for. Don’t IMPOSE a filter, EDUCATE about filters, and the… Read more »
Im sorry but bc of people like you and people who makes comments lime yours we have so many kids leaving the derech and becoming fry…… u are an alter u have no right to ask abt struggles of our generations …. oh and u clearly all of u must never have learnt of the famous idea of kol dechiya udechiya which the alter rebbe talks abt in Tanya hashem put it down here obviously its a striggle and for u to even ask a q of why teenagers have this struggles is absurdity the ar clearly states every battle… Read more »
like #42, we have 2 sons back in Yeshiva with no smart phones though, they tell me that there are kids there who have smart phones without parent knowledge. Keep trying every incentive to push off that smart phone bit when a child / Teen acts out because of being told to put away electronics then you know that its a real addictive behavior . Taking our son to a frum therapist was a good start to get him to understand limits and dangers . now its safe stuff with Gruntig and more but when he can spend 12 hours… Read more »
Today’s lifestyle just doesn’t conflate with yesteryear’s. We can’t realistically go back to the arguably calm and stable Jewish life of the 50s, or centuries before that. The smart phone (like the car, television etc) won’t and can’t be uninvented.
Parnts you have a problem trusting your kid he will go behind your back if you choose to give you may be seprised that he will not break the trust you put him bottom line daven pray daven pray
in my years of experience in yeshiva i realized a few thing A:yeshiva or parents will never beat the smartphone. B:kids who had to hide there phones from there parents are more addicted to it than those who owned it and had it with there parents knowledge. and binge movies on it at every opportunity possible. this being simply bc the smartphone is considered the forbidden fruit, and our nature since adam and chava is to desire the forbidden fruit. WAKE UP!! and smell the coffee we are in this dream of golus. and the rabbeim clearly state to purify… Read more »
I was recently in CH (I live abroad) and saw how adults that are Fathers, Teachers using there phones in 770 and other Shuls during Davening. They could be using the Smartphone as a Siddur, Tehilim, Tanya, Dvar Malchus etc. but why in a Shul where all these are available as Seforim? Some are browsing the web, some are reading messages and replying to emails etc. some are even talking on the phones whilst Davening trying to reply with “nu nu” as they at a place where one can’t talk, what can one expect from the younger generations if they… Read more »
in my high school theres a strictly enforced no smartphone rule. but were kids, and its very hard not to be able to skype/facetime your parents, especially if you come from out of the country. so of course, we all find ways around it, hiding them, going to stores and facetiming our parents there, anything. theres no real wway to ban smartphones completely, they are far to widespread. i do think that if you arrange to teach girls in a way that isnt forced on them and choking them it would prob help far more than just screaming at kids/teens… Read more »
I have an unfiltered smartphone, and I know girls who wish they could have mine… I know girls who have also but they look at the phone as a way to rebel and a way to look at goyishe stuff…. but growing up in shlichus I have no I treat in that… my mom knows that and I know that myself… I don’t go on YouTube or anything like that but my case isn’t so common …. the truth is, u need to trust your kids…..
There’s a program called digital technology by Dr. Eli Shapiro. Check it out. LA had a workshop on it. Maybe COL should post an article about it.
You ask the right question. Even on a unfiltered computer if you stick to koshe websites that’s all you will get.
So, maybe just maybe curiosity is the reason what leads people astray.
I called Rabbi Simpson about my son’s classmate who has a smartphone.
The boy’s parents were called and given the choice of taking away the device or removing their son from he Yeshiva.
Sure enough, my son’s class is now (relatively) clean.
Some Mesivtas started asking about new applicants if the boy had a smartphone in 8th grade. If yes, the kid gets bumped to the bottom of the waiting list. Since the kid will most likely be a bad influence.
They assume if the boy had a smartphone, he is probably exposed, and is also most likely to sneak a device into Yeshiva
If ALL Mesivtas did this, it would be an easy “motivation” for 7-8 graders to stick to simple phones
the Rebe spoke so strongly about having a TV in the house, is BRINGING THE CHURCH WITH THE PRIEST INTO THE HOUSE,SO I SAID HOW MUCH MORE WITH THE INTERNET!!!!! SO WHATS A PRACTICAL SOLUTION? ONE OF THE REASONS PPL IN YESHIVA NOWDAYS NEED IT IS TO BE COMUNICATED WITH THEIR PARENTS,ACROOS THE SEA.SO INSTEAD OFJUST SAYING NO SMARTPHONE,THE PARENTS TOGTHER WITH THE SCHOOL SHOULD SPEAK ONE BY ONE ABOUT …FOR BOYS AND GIRLS. WHY? BECAUSE NOWAYS TH EDUCATION AT HOME IS NOT INAF,SO SCHOOLS /YESHIVAS HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO EDUCATE THEIR STUDENTS ON THESE MATTERS!! THE MAIN THING IS… Read more »
R. Nochum Kaplan (Merkaz Chinuch) introduced a curriculum to educate the children. What ever happened with that?
I think a couple of years ago ULY Crown St. held a big mandatory event for all the parents in the older grades to educate them, and they set strong Yeshiva guidelines.
I would like to see my children’s schools do the same thing.
The problem starts in 3rd grade (probably younger)! My 8 year old tells me about the tablets and other devices that his classmates own, or are given constant access too. I’m dreading the moment he will ask me “Why can’t I have one” To the other parents: PLEASE stop this young! It will only get harder for him and for you (and for the other parents who have children in your son’s class) every day that passes. Whether it was naivety or apathy, step up and be responsible for your own children’s future and the future of his classmates. Thank… Read more »
I’m a bucher with a unfiltered smartphone, and I can attest that there is absolutely no possible solution to stop or even slow down yeshiva students from accessing and owning internet capable devices, period.
It’s 2016 and forbidding these things hoping buchrim will not use it is foolish, not only is it foolish it’s not right, we need to stand up together as one and scream “shema yisroel”…
Another issue is that we don’t have much to fulfill our time with, we need to introduce positive stimuli, which then the educated (see #8) will be fulfilled
although I can’t judge others at all, why are children even interested in the Shmutz of the world. I have an unfiltered computer, but I have no interest in seeing Shmutz,( no children in the house.) My entertainment is on Gruntig .net. Why are our children even interested in the lowliness. My married child also has no interest in it and he and his date then, decided before their marriage that they would not have internet in the home B”H. Since Yiddishkiet has so much richness, depth and also kosher entertainment, why look elsewhere? I’m not even getting into how… Read more »
Parents when picking battles pick wisely children are smarter and battle ready more than you can believe
Till 1 member of hanhola will stop pulling out his smart phone in zal nothing will change! How can you expect a bachur to respect his menahels speech that smart phones are terrible when he himself sits on it the whole day in zal!!!!
The menahel says he is responsible enough and guess what so does the bachur!
Totally agree with #26 ,and great line there “teach are kids the consequent for having a smart phone not the punishment” because us bochirim are much better than the hanhala at this cat and mouse game.
I’m a bucher with a unfiltered smartphone, and I can attest that there is absolutely no possible solution to stop or even slow down yeshiva students from accessing and owning internet capable devices, period.
It’s 2016 and forbidding these things hoping buchrim will not use it is foolish, not only is it foolish it’s not right, we need to stand up together as one and scream “shema yisroel”…
They are trying just as we are….but it’s very tough when not everyone is on board with recognizing the dangers…
I admire parents who stay strong…m
It goes without saying that the need to educate bochurim how to use cellphones responsibly only begins from a minimum age such as 18 or so, similar to a license for driving a car and not earlier. younger kids are not tet emptionally ready to get cellphone education and should only be using electronics under parent owned electronics under parental supervision.
this article in short is just that you think children are less responsible with smartphones and only adults are aloud to have
its not going to help to make strict rules about smartphones the more the rules the more he is going to break them. and agreed on #8
Sorry to burst your bubbles but there is no way say this except that this is an addiction and has to be treated as such i dont mean addiction as a cute way of expressing the problem i mean real ADDICTION. Once the addict realizes that he or she are not in control of themselves is the 1st step. Ask your teen if they think they have a handle on it, i guarantee they will all say they do thats where the problem is based. Unfortunately these kids are escaping from dealing with reality ( who dosent want to escape)… Read more »
#26 is right!!!
You are fortunate. Please share how you were a keili to this bracha.
Please share the chinuch which you gave your sons and your own personal chassidishe lifestyle which was an example.
Parents say no to smart phones while holding their smart phones.
Exactly.
Having an open/honest relationship with your child, works better than the alternative, although some would rather stay naive and “not know” (which is OK too, if that’s what works best for you/family). It’s an unprecedented, new world out there.
For years already, bochurim (mesivta, zal, etc) have ALL had unfiltered smartphones, regardless of what the Yeshiva has dictated. (Some even having 3 phones: flip, filtered, rogue).
I laugh every time I still hear of the hanhola’s out-of-touch policies, and even harder when I see the hanhola itself using those same “forbidden smartphones”!
I’m not going back with my smartphone because there are kids that tell me that “my mother doesn’t let me you are so locky “
Mesifta doesn’t allow phones. Gives tuition breaks
My school lets smartphones but only with filter they put on
my sons are addicted . ive put on the best filters , they know how to get round them. I’ve taken away , dumped down the toilet … they buy another one … basically the Internet has taken over my 2 boys ( 17 and 18) .. they were amazing kids , learning , busy with hobbies , talented , smart and the internet stole my most amazing perfect boys! I’ve cried countless tears , haven’t had a decent night sleep for years and suffered health problems as a result . I can honestly say that I was such a… Read more »
As a mom, I hear you loud and clear. I also agree with # 8 and will go a step further. I want my boys to understand these issues from an appropriate, Chassidishe perspective. Instead of punishing our boys for CV wanting to go on inappropriate stuff, let’s educate them why Hashem gave them these wants, etc and what they can do to handle them as teenagers. A young man shared his struggles in this area with his mashpia and his mashpia told him to learn Tanya B’al Peh. Is that the correct response? I believe that we as parents… Read more »
Funny
Isn’t this discussion on my smartphone internet unfiltered
Life is stranger than fiction!
Precisely….
People reading this post and comments alike.
Spend more quality time with your kids. Lead by example.
Phones should not be surgically attached!
Get out there, don’t wait for the weekend to put the phone away and spend undivided attention and time with your kids.
and not just for teens
but in terms of physical danger, the radiation exposure is definitely much worse for children and teens
it robs them of their youth in so many ways
having your own phone allows for extra comfort of surfing whatever you want and having certain people contact you, in a way that you may not feel so comfortable to, if you were using your friends phone
An approach that has worked for many parents is writing a contract with their child spelling out all details, limitations, timelines, and consequences regarding usage of the computer internet or smartphone. Both parties (parent and child) agree to it and sign. This makes the child an active participant in the process and fosters responsibility.
Well said! No yeshiva bochur needs a smartphone.
I, as a mother think that having a smart phone could or could not be a problem. i have a daughter in OHEL Chana in California and they had Ana amazing program. One day they had someone come in to teach a “technology workshop”. These people are experts on tha and explaind how to be safe and appropriate on the Internet. They did not use threats, or unison end of the school didn’t ban smartphones but what they did do, was why are them in a kind, non threatening way and showed them how when being safe, it is a… Read more »
Kids will find the internet but teaching them how to have filters and a buddy system will educate them unlike than banning it which isn’t really dealing with the problem but more like hiding it.
Yes, you are extremely naive if this is how you think.
The longer into the article you read the more you can see how out of touch this is.
Sadly this issue is mainly ignored in most zals because the pod and aging hanhalos have no idea how to deal with this.
Case in point I have a friend who wore an apple watch the ENTIRE year in a good zal, and the hanhalo never said a word .
Hopefully this issue will improve as the younger generation gets more involved with the yeshiva system
you absolutely cannot trust a kid with a smartphone.
everyone has a yetzer hora and what your doing is setting him up for a battle very hard to win when hes alone in his room or elswhere (bathroom) at night
If your son really wants to see whats on the internet, I am sure he got friends in Yeshiva that will let him use their smartphone, Since you say your kid is a good kid, why don’t you trust him to take his smartphone to Yeshiva, because if all the other kids have one and he really wants to use his smartphone, he will find a way, kids know more then we do today when it comes to cellphones
all my knowledge in this area is from friends ,and you can imagine in what why, till I whas fourteen fifteen I didn’t even know That there such a thing that thinking about certain things are bad, I’m not kidding simply because no one told me, not by my parents or a teacher in school ( which I think the reason is because there all scared to speak to kids about this topic) by the time my mashpia in shiar bays misavta mentioned it biderech remez at a farbrangen it whas a little bit to late I whas already drowning… Read more »
“No internet”, but you manage to get emails and what’sapps. ..
“im never on it besides when im about to go to bed i check it” that’s how you kill a night…
“my mother knows the code but she trusts me, so bh im not adicttted at all.. ” I wish my mother was so naive. ..
You’re out to lunch
The fact that smart phones, is a major issue is evident. And I respect and admire, your care and dedication, to your sons education and yiddishklait. However, your sollution to the issue. By did allowing smart phones, with severe consequences. Has already been implemented in many yeshivos specifically in mesivtos. and Baruch hashem, has been greatly successful. (For example: Cincinnati yeshiva, has been completely clear of smart phones, for the past two years, thank you to some amazing work by the hanhallah). Yet circumstantially, has only been effective in the mesivtos. However, in the Zal’s it has not had the… Read more »
I was asking the same thing the whole time reading it. why not a flip phone????? and I don’t have a smart phone myself. the TRUTH is that filters don’t help at all. !!! kids can get around it in a few seconds. filters is just something people made up. (i don’t know why people still talk about filters). the BIGGEST problem is when you talk about (especially install) a filter. all it dose is make the internet as if it is OK. now the internet is a grate thing. however for a bucher in yeshiva its like driving on… Read more »
Happens to be, the source of this desire is mainly not actually from peer pressure of others’ smartphone. It’s because smartphones are either a way to take a break from what’s going on around them and unwind, a way to stay in touch with friends from far away, through WhatsApp, etc.
Btw i hate that when kids try to talk to their moms or dads and they don’t listen they are all on their smartphones, no kidding they grow up wanting it tooo, if its so important for the parents why not the teenagers… so please dotn blame your kids so much, blame urselves first
Hatzoloh pursoh (little solution, not all the solution) : being a dugmah chayah in YOUR HOUSE as a parent, don’t being your mind and interests in Goyshe zachn, Open a “chassidishe derher” and not the CNN or sports news!!, have a Kvius in YOUR HOUSE in learning a shiur in torah, Chasidus. Why the Mother should be wasting hours in Facebook and not saying a Kapitl Tehilim in front of her children! In the table, supper time, mention and discuss today’s Hayom Yom, and not about Trump and Clinton!! The changes in the children you”ll see automatically, and with the… Read more »
Im a student in Bnos Menachem, and bh because of the rule of no smartphones girls don’t have it or if they do they have it restricted (or at least i do) and bh its going good, im never on it besides when im about to go to bed i check it but i have no internet no app store i just have games and email, and whatsapp… and my mother knows the code but she trusts me, so bh im not adicttted at all.. But all schools should do it because if you have friends from other schools and… Read more »
World respected poskim have announced openly that if someone has a smartphone (even if filtered) he is possul lèidus (and implemented this at a chuppah by requiring another eid!).
They consider a smart phone equal to avoda zara or chillul shabbos b`farhesya.
Would you allow your son to have a tzelem if “everyone else has one”, or would you allow him to be mechalel shabbos publicly because others are doing so!
The ASIFAS did help to those who care and those who don’t care cannot be helped.
K from BMG
When I was younger, all I wanted was a jacket because the school was cold. I persevered through the cold and after 2 years, got a jacket. Now cold doesn’t bother me much so… what’s the point, oh yeah, these “phone wars” you speak of are nonsense but a nice read thanks.
I have four teenaged boys who are really chassidish. None of them ever asked me for a phone.
No peer pressure to get a smartphone because none of the boys are allowed or want to bring to Yeshiva.
Yet, all are happy, energetic, busy learning and doing the Rebbe’s Inyanim.
They have found the answer to Chassidishe happy bochurim
About time yeshivas wake up and take hold of their responsibilitues which is to educate. Smartphones are a part of life and every bochur will have one when they become an adult. Even every hanhala member themself has a smartphone! Yeshivas have a responsibility to teach appropriate smartphone usage rather than banning. This includes the bochurim being taught of the halachic requirement of a self imposed buddy system, the right filters and most importantly using a smartphone during certain times (not during seder etc).
Just saying, there are some people who withstand the pressure. What was in their chinuch that helped them be that strong? That is where your energy should be. At least with your younger kids, if you missed out on this one.
Show him how passionate you are about Judaism and holy activities.
How him how not interested and how bored you are by smartphones.
Show him how you respect yourself by having conviction for your positions.
Show him how you respect his ability to respect himself.
Be honest with yourself and wit him.
Good Luck!
Internet ed is our best bet because teens are way ahead of us! They will get their internet regardless. Hopefully the ed will lead to them gaining their own understanding that filters etc. are only for their own good.
After millions of dollars spent in Boro Park on Internet asifas go to any restaurant with Chareidishe people they are all on SMartphone and Iphones. Its a joke. Sadly you cannot stop progress and we do not live in the past. Its like Gezeira Rov Hatzibor….. everyone has Iphones all neighborhoods
To the parent a peace of advice if you explain your reservation about him having a smart phone he may be more than willing to live with the phone but if you go ahead and say no and fight the battle of wits you will lose on the long term and a smart phone will be the least of your problems so in short pick your son as a ally not a adversary when it comes to battle of wits we children are battle ready
Whether you or yeshiva allows it or not, your kid will have access to a smartphone. You can teach him how to navigate safe usage of the phone, so once he’s a grown married man he will not be opening Pandora’s box with his first smart phone purchase. Or you and yeshiva could forbid them, which in turn will lead him to live a life of sneaking around and lying in order to get a phone. Where there’s a will there’s a way. The more we restrict the more creative ways our children will find a way of going behind… Read more »
We must take responsibility and educate our children- Especially the boys .we live in a world where our children can so easily access anything .. with or without owning a smart phone. It is our duty to educate them and keep the lines of communication open.
Its time to start educating kids about responsible internet use rather than saying “no”.
Why does the average yeshiva bocher have to find out inappropriate shmutz from their friends just because his parents are too shy to talk to him about the realities of life?
We have the same issue with our son. He has a regular phone, no Internet, but wants what everyone else has. So far my husband and I are standing strong and have said no. Good luck.
Parents: u must let your kids know who’s in charge. Set and enforce rules when your kids are young so that when he does grow up he will know that the rules are not going to change there is no option to be nice in regards to this issue because this issue has destroyed many families and you must teach him that it’s not appropriate for him to have a smartphone up until he grows up and he has the knowledge of how to use it safely.
Anyone who wants internet access these days will get it. It’s just a matter of when and how, and believe me it’s not hard! So hanhallah takes it away anf like you said, you can buy another one for $30.
I gave up a long time ago.Hatzlocha if school doesn’t enforce don’t even try save your energy.You need all your kochos as they get older there is more issues to deal with…..
I totally agree
But we are too far gone and continue to rob our children of their childhood… Sad.
What is the advantage of having a “filtered, the internet is blocked and there’s no service, only wi-fi” over having a plain vanilla flip phone? (Other than the potential to get around the filter.) Is there an advantage that is legitimate for talmidim, to having such a limited smartphone, that I am not aware of? It seems to me that this is an argument in favor of replacing this limited smartphone with a basic flip phone, but please clarify here. AS FOR the “Everyone has one” argument, this is as old as the hills. Parents have been dealing with this… Read more »