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Thursday, 19 Elul, 5779
  |  September 19, 2019

The Sad Truth About Yeshivos

From the COLlive inbox: This is probably the most cliché question that Yeshiva bochurim ask, but for me it's different. Full Story

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AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!
Guest
AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!
i always thought abt tht
Guest
i always thought abt tht

Im a girl but i alwys thought abt tht. how can a person b motivated to lrn lyk tht all day???

 Bochur
Guest
Bochur

I don’t want to sound arrogant or anything, but I started learning Gemorah in my Cheder in fourth grade and by eight grade we had already begun learning a little bit of tosfos as well. Two months into shiur aleph mesivta, I was honestly able to learn a blatt gemoroh with rashi on my own.Tosfos and mefarshim took more time. I seriously believe that a bochur who aplies himself to his limud hatorah and puts effort in will see fruits from his labor. I dont know about you, but when I was in yeshiva the mashpiim constantly farbrenged about how… Read more »

to # 2
Guest
to # 2

Because it’s the Aibeshter’s torah

Mom in Crown Heights
Guest
Mom in Crown Heights

I totally agree with what this boy is saying.

my son is here in a local mesivta and in the last year he went from being interested and a good student to being bored.
he is not excited to go to school like he used to, and he says its ‘too easy’ and he is bored.
I dont know what the answer is, because this is the system, u cant change it.

he keeps saying he will open a school when he is older because he knows what is needed.

wow
Guest
wow

very well written!

Rosh Yeshiva
Guest
Rosh Yeshiva

After 9 years of yeshiva, perhaps you should become a Rosh yeshiva and bring this new great method of learning (system as some would call it) to the Lubavitch yeshivas in the world. Yasher koach!

To the Author
Guest
To the Author

There is no help, we are a doomed community who only has interest in speaking negitively about people. Many people are so haapy that Matisyahu took off his beard, because now they can add him to the list of who to trash. To answer your question we don’t like educated people because then they ask questions that we can’t answer, so we just keep the status quo of keeping people stupid and uneducated. Sincerely, A person who spent 9 years in yeshivah and has gone to the “best ones”

TOMCHAI
Guest
TOMCHAI

KOL HAKOVOD IT’S ABOUT TIME! TIMES HAVE CHANGED!
GREAT METHOD!!!!!!

I'm all with you Meir M.
Guest
I'm all with you Meir M.

I have a son in Mesivta that will probably come out with not knowing how to learn gemara on his own…

To #5
Guest
To #5

if you’re son is bored, speak to his hanhala and ask them to challenge him

Right on brother... but...
Guest
Right on brother... but...

I also spent a bunch of years in Yeshiva and feel that the time in Seder could have been spent a lot better. What you wrote about the structure makes a lot of sense. The system should be geared to keep moving (Girsa) and let the “genius Bochrim” delve deeper into M’forshim even in the Girsa Gemara. It’s important for everyone to recognize that they’re making progress. What I find surprising is your statement that “at the end of my bochur years, I feel I came out with nothing.” You seem to be a much better Bochur than I ever… Read more »

I agree
Guest
I agree

I agree with you i also thought that half of the day is wasted everyday for 7 years but i do know many people who only enjoyed learnig biyyun and wasted the second half of the day

Maybe you dont realise it but you do know alot maybe is does not feel like it but you you really do know allot

You gain other things
Guest
You gain other things

Yeshiva is not only to cover dafim, it’s mainly to mold you into a good jew. Learning is an added benifit.

other places
Guest
other places

look at yeshivas in litvish world, much more successful… with gemorah skills at least

Every word is true!
Guest
Every word is true!

Thank you so much Meir for writing this article, you hit it on the button. I want to add to what you wrote, that because we are “Learning Gemarah” all these years we don’t end up learning chumash AT ALL, we finish Learning chumash in 3rd grade because then we HAVE to start learning Gemarah, but we don’t learn it in elementary either. so the average Lubavitch bochur knows how to learn chumash on a 3rd grade level, whereas the lubavitch girls who learn chumash till 8th grade (or past) can open up a chumash and learn stuff like “sfurnu”… Read more »

Don't blame the system
Guest
Don't blame the system

There are a ton of Yeshivos in Lubavitch. Some Yeshivos are better than others. Maybe some of the big ones need help, but there are many very good Yeshivos (and therefore Bochrim) in Lubavitch.

3 is Right!!
Guest
3 is Right!!

if your not gonna toil (Iyun part Torah), and are lazy/embarassed to go and out a from tosfos from your magid shiur, then this is in itself problematic. Did it ever dawn on you that perhaps the real issue was that you were not applying yourself enough in the learning for all these years, and it unfortunately took you 6 years (!!) to realize where you are holding???! When I was in zal, I did not finish a sugya until i learnt the entire sefer of Otzar Meforshim on each sugya!! And let me tell you it was not easy!… Read more »

Do it now!
Guest
Do it now!

Meir No one is stopping from doing what you suggest starting now. I say this as someone who had similar frustrations (it’s a decade or so ago)… Yes, I had a good head and I learned but there was no direction and no structure The truth is that it’s very hard to set goals in learning iyun but that is the core responsibility of hanholoh and frankly while many of them were fine people, most had no vision and were not ready for prime time… (I’m in business now and I see this type of person all the time). Having… Read more »

I agree
Guest
I agree

# 3, well said

bachur too
Guest
bachur too

its very hard for a yeshivah to have a structure like that when in lubavitch u have kids from many different learning backrounds ,when one bachur already knows gemarah and rashi the other can hardly read .the solution would b to either make yeshivos or classes for the bachurim who have more experience or the bachurim or dont. the problem witht hat is that ppl wud start judging and label so STOP!! torah and yidishkiet shud b served individually the best it can. and if u r a mainstream yeshivah think more about those he cant read and arent self… Read more »

Loves this guy
Guest
Loves this guy

Tell this to Hanhola not to col

see
Guest
see

mastertorah.com

that’s all.

BS”D
Guest
BS”D

KEY: MODEL AFTER LITVISH YESHIVOS FOR GEMARAH.
FOR CHASSIDUS: Do what Chabad does best!
Its SO SIMPLE! Keep the Nigleh where those that are great at it have mastered it, learn from other yidden, dont be afraid, were all in this together! MOSHIACH NOW! 🙂

is yeshiva a rehab or a parking lot?
Guest
is yeshiva a rehab or a parking lot?

Dear Meir by saying that it should be girsa all day you are still making it a system.(which is a problem)..yeshiva has to be a place where based on your level in learning and brain power they will help you grow and learn…no more system…don’t grade bochurim by age, but grade them by style and learning level… BUT today’s yeshivas are just parking lots where you go and spend hrs on end (if you don’t have your own geshmak or motivation in learning..which is very normal for a 15 year old…)doing nothing….and if you show interests in other things music,art,or… Read more »

A bochur that just finished smicha
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A bochur that just finished smicha

I have to say that what he says is very true! I have really worked hard on myself to learn but I didnt realize that what I was missing was the proper foundation for learning years prior! Ireally wish I could have gone back, as today I feel that my lack of learning in Yeshivah had everything to do with the fact that I didn’t know how…I wa deopendent on anyone who was willing to explain a word or to here and there… It’s very sad, and I am so happy that there is someone speaking out…There must be a… Read more »

Sometimes....
Guest
Sometimes....

Sometimes things stagnate due to people becoming so involved in their day-to-day activities, the bigger picture and its details are hardly ever monitored. Then, all of a sudden, someone or something brings the status quo forward, like this writer did. Maybe more honest input about this topic will engender some real conversation. Maybe that conversation will reach those in leadership positions, and some improvement will ensue. Unfortunately, sometimes those in leadership positions are sometimes reluctant to approach the system for fear of rocking the boat. But I think good leaders must rock that boat sometimes, in order to effect positive… Read more »

BMG
Guest
BMG

I am a bochur at BMG. If you want to shtyg in limud haTorah and vakz oyz in gadlus, you need to follow the derch halimud of the Maharal, as many chadorim are following.

In the Derech HaMaharal, you learn to MASTER the whole chumash, then the entire mishnayos, all before learning Gemorah. At that point, the Gemorah comes easy and naturally.

Wishing you harbottsas haTorah and gadlus baTorah.

A 22 year old Bocher who put in his 9 years.
Guest
A 22 year old Bocher who put in his 9 years.

What rubbish! What school did you go to as a child? Most Lubavitcher schools start Gemara at 4th or 5th grade, you are supposed to start learning some to all Tosfos at the end of eighth grade. Yes there is too much free time in Mesivta and for sure in Zal but that does not mean from now on every one should learn Gersah most of the time. The reason that Gemara is such a focus for Klal Yisrael is because it teaches us how to Think not just memorize random facts. As for your proof from Smicha, under which… Read more »

I agree with #2 also....
Guest
I agree with #2 also....

but I personally think you should only go to yeshiva or sem if you WANT to, people should never feel forced or obligated just cause everybody does it. we’re all different and yes its wonderful if we go but if you don’t think you’ll have patience, go for something else you like. I don’t like the whole mandatory idea. You can only be taught one on one, all the subjects listed here, or even online.

oppisete of the rebbe rashab
Guest
oppisete of the rebbe rashab

in samech vav it explains the importance of learning biyun as well as in in kuntres eitz chaiyim

This is what you're looking for...
Guest
This is what you're looking for...
Amerika iz nisht andresh
Guest
Amerika iz nisht andresh

Fellow Lubavitchers,I am not a Bochur today… but I went thru the “System”as well …….. I hear what you are saying…. and I read all 26 comments….I wont get into the merit of why this Bochur and all the comments after are finding fault with system…If you are right or wrong I do not stand and judge… BUT i would like to add this.. i come from a different generation… When Bochrim feel they have a right to tell Hanhola how to run a yeshiva in a public forum…that in itself is a problem… yes I went to Tomche Tmimmim… Read more »

Well Said
Guest
Well Said

But…

1. The solution is not necessarily to change girsa for iyun (which might be valuable for other reasons) but that magidei shiurim should be trained mechanchim that know HOW to teach and build their talmidim. This as opposed to just being big lamdonim. (They are very different skills)

2. Perhaps an entire masechto is quite ambitious. I felt that the girsa schedules pushed you to “learn” too quick to absorb and think about the material. It was more like reading. You were up to the 3rd proof of the answer before you appreciated the question in the first place.

bochur that actually sits and learns.
Guest
bochur that actually sits and learns.

But for me it’s different, because I am someone who utilized most of time learning, in seder and out of seder. I enjoy learning. Yet I feel that I have nothing tangible.

if you really learned as it should be, you would never write such a article.

I agree with the author 100%
Guest
I agree with the author 100%

I have been saying this same thing for years. My Iyun years in Yeshiva were exactly as described. On the other hand for Girsah I learnt with a kid who dropped out of school. We learnt what had to be learnt, enjoyed it and didn’t waste time.

Later I went to law school. Classes were structured, professors provided course outlines, and every student at the end of the semester was able to see where they started and where they ended off.

Coral Springs Mesivta
Guest
Coral Springs Mesivta

I can tell you from personal experience as a bochur elsewhere how this article describes the yeshiva that i was in EXACTLY. The problem was that my teacher was just that, a talmid chochom, but not a teacher or educator.

Then I spent time in Coral Springs, and there the rosh yeshiva, rabbi janowski, teaches skills. he teaches how to learn with workbooks. and he goes to each bochur on his level.

I wish i learnt like that when i was in shiur aleph mesivta

Magidei Shiurim
Guest
Magidei Shiurim

… must learn how to teach.

Agree with #34

to 33 rebbe rashab
Guest
to 33 rebbe rashab

if he picked me to be a talmud then he also picked me to be kicked out

22 year old bachur
Guest
22 year old bachur

I went through the system and just finished smicha. I wasted plenty of time (I’ll never admit to anyone how much), but I won’t blame it on the system and you shouldn’t either. When I wasn’t being lazy and wasting time, and was actually learning, that was the most enjoyable time in yeshivah. I definitely wouldn’t consider myself one of the most chassidish guys, but I’m not going to fool myself and fault the system for my shortcomings. Yagaita v’loi matzasah al ta’amin. I know that when I try I succeed, and if I don’t succeed it’s because I’m not… Read more »

emes
Guest
emes

this is so true!
the only yeshivah where you are TAUGHT HOW TO LEARN is YG Melbourne

Bachur
Guest
Bachur

Magidei Shiurim, at least in zaal, aren’t there to teach, just to give extra flavor to the learning or answer a real tough question. Otherwise you may as well stay in Mesivtah if you want the Gemara and meforshim taught to you.

 R. Janowski!
Guest
R. Janowski!

your the best go coral springs!

Totally, Absolutely Clueless
Guest
Totally, Absolutely Clueless

I am sure the author’s heart is in the right place, but he completely misunderstands the point of learning so much iyun. We focus on iyun because: A) it teaches the bochur the correct way to analyze and THINK B) when you learn iyun, and delve into the amazing depth contained in “just” four lines, there are times that you can actually SEE the grandeur and DIVINITY of Torah. Every bochur which really learned b’iyun knows what I am referring to. Those are the moments when your frumkeit and belief are strengthened to withstand anything you may go through later… Read more »

Coral Springs
Guest
Coral Springs

Coral Springs is perhaps the only good yeshiva out there. There is no Rosh Yeshiva as good as Rabbi Janowski, he is the best Rosh Yeshiva in the world. Know him personally.

theres more
Guest
theres more

good points raised but you are being misalem from the crux of the issue, we (not just lubavitch but chasidish and litvish as well) have a “system” for everyone that many if not most are not interested nor capable of succeeding in.

Two Tracks
Guest
Two Tracks

Obviously there is a need for change. Look at all the
drop outs. Perhaps the yeshivos need to offer two tracks,
according to the needs of the talmidim. I also feel that
for those bochurim that cannot learnbiyun for so many
hours other subjects should be offered such as navi, historia, etc. These subjects are taught to the girls and
bochurim never learn them.

positive
Guest
positive

your personal feelings and experience in truth and candor are much appreciated, but can’t you translate that into something hopeful and what you’ve learned about that experience? It may be hard but thas what will give chizuk and make a cycle of positivity

disagree
Guest
disagree

in every yeshiva you have bochrim that have zitz fleish for gemoro and those who dont, so dont say that its corrupt.
instead of shmoozing and drinking coffee, get to your book

YOU ARE AWESOME!!!
Guest
YOU ARE AWESOME!!!

Finally someone says something, it shame that my yeshiva days are over, but they realllllllly need to fix up yeshiva! And noone cares about what the teachers have to add in, just teach the stuff we need to know for life

Melbourne
Guest
Melbourne

Yeshiva gedolah in Melbourne should be the model.for every other yeshiva. They divide the boys by level rather than by age, and there is a very structured system.as to how the bochurim can constantly be aware of their progress. The learning is structured and straightforward and every bochur is given the attention he needs in order to grow.

Haynt is nit anderesh
Guest
Haynt is nit anderesh

I learnt in a Litvishe Yeshiva, and when I came to TTL I was way behind for my age. Litvish have mastered learning? Have you fallen for their sense of self importance? Of course. If your intention is to shtayg, so you measure every (imaginary as well as real) accomplishment with a notch on your belt, then you do grow a feeling of accomplishment. (Feh.) As a “mechanech with experience” (the Rebbe called me that) I was constantly fighting parental pressure to have the kids “run” even though they had not yet mastered “crawling”. Did your father farher you ostentatiously… Read more »

Iyun is the most important part of Yeshiva
Guest
Iyun is the most important part of Yeshiva

If it’s actually taught properly. Iyun teaches you how to think. When you’ve taken apart a blatt, thought of every detail you can, and then open up a shita mekuvetzes and see how muched you missed, it opens up your eyes on HOW TO THINK. And when you think you then have it all down pat, and you open up a tzalach or Pnei Yehoshua, and then see what never even occured to you after the Shita, you start paying attention on how to properly analyze what you’re learning. which is probably the most important skill you can learn anywhere.… Read more »

umm..
Guest
umm..

i dont know where this guy fell off, but all i have to say is this, first of all, if you would speand a few years learning the basics in yeshiva,(something you shouldve learnt already at an earlier age), then thats a few years, and you dont take much out of it. we are here to cover ground. how come all the litvishe yeshivos, they have the same bochurim understanding, and learning, and covering ground!!!! we need our boys to be able to meet any bochur not from lubavitch, and shtel and argue with hiom on a piece of gemoro.… Read more »

Don't be so radical...
Guest
Don't be so radical...

You can feel accomplished in Iyun. The Madig Shur just needs to make a roadmap and stick to it. 1) Syllabus for the year handed out on first day 2) Each month the Magid SHiur sets goals for the month 2) Before Seder each day the Magid Shiur spends 10 minutes with the class and summarizes the goals for the day. Outlines for Bochurim what they should accomplish that day. 3) Chazarah should be systematic and manatory. 4) Each month, reorganizae, recallibrate, and refresh!!!! It is the ambiguity that makes Yeshiva life for a Bochur so frustrating. Remove the ambiguity.… Read more »

55 comment already!!!!
Guest
55 comment already!!!!

I am impressed on so many comments it seems really serious issue
the sistem is falling apart kids are left behind (noshrim)
Parents should do something
On the Is era sistem should be discussed and improved

To # 21
Guest
To # 21

You are right that Yeshivas have bochurim at all different learning levels. However, as a teacher, I can tell you that coming from different backgrounds is only a small and not so significant part of the equation. Much more importantly, and much more commonly, individual students have different learning styles and abilities, even if they all come from the same background. Do you not know brothers who differ greatly in their learning abilities?! Teachers need TRAINING to understand different styles of teaching and learning, and to determine what is getting in a student’s way of success. Yeshivas would do well… Read more »

Been there done that
Guest
Been there done that

I think you have it wrong. in fact, I dissagree completely. I only agree with the point of the maggid shiur saying his own Chidushim. Why do I disagree? I learnt 40 prokim of Tanya Baal Pe, mishnayes, Brochos, sukah, meguila. Learned Maseches Soito begirse. Did Smicha to.. trust me I covered the Paal pe part that you focus your main point on. And guess what? Do not remember a word of anything, do not know 1 haloche of Smicha, I dont remember anything. Dont talk about memory as I chazered 7 prokim of Tania in one shot! I have… Read more »

The real truth!
Guest
The real truth!

The hanhala members in most of our yeshivos are simply not interested in changing. Unfortunately they are thinking too much about them selves, not about what’s most beneficial to the bochurim. It you care to help, please show this article to all teachers of the beis medrishes (zals)

YG Australia
Guest
YG Australia

Best yeshiva!

Different times
Guest
Different times

To the author: 1. I see your point. 2. This is the system of Chabad, the Rebbe put it this way, and that’s the way it has always been. 3. Personally, I think that at least 95% of any staff member of the yeshivas I have met (mashgiuach, mashpia, rosh yeshiva, magidei shiurim) are very upsetting when it comes to social and teaching skills. They have no tact and would never assume their mistakes. (I figure if ur an hanholo member reading this your are getting really angry and truly believe you are doing well with your bochurim and u… Read more »

Rebbes system- no two ways.
Guest
Rebbes system- no two ways.

However, if you are referring to the way you don’t actually use your time- that’s your fault… Sorry. Learn fir the four hours instead if talking! Learn the tosfos- being that now you know what your Magid Shiur will be discussing. Also, the Maggid Shiur might have something that your young head could hear- it would be good…
Your frustration though proabably also stems from the way the hanhola TREATS bochurim- not as neshamos but kids in their presence.

to # 25
Guest
to # 25

Heard this fantastic story at todays farbrengin from Psachia
Lipskier–
When Eli Lipskier was learning in 770 the hanhala noticed
that he was missing from seder regularly twice a week.They investigated and found out that he was learning music. They went into the Rebbe and reported this, [intending toexpel him from the yeshiva].
The Rebbes reaction was-Make sure that he has money
for the lessons.
R.Mentlik hurried over to him and gave him $200.00 whichwas then a huge sum.
In Eli’s next yechidus he was told “You are my musician”,
and was given an exclusive for 770’s [childrens rallies]
all the way thru nun beis.

Did you notice?
Guest
Did you notice?

Did you notice that all the comments that disagreed with the author were all one long rant with no paragraphs?!! Very difficult to read if you ask me. Go back and read it. Now, why is this important? because it says a lot about education and expectations. Those who are fine with the current system don’t see a need to present their words so they’re easily understood by others. Education is all about me spitting out information and you have to catch it. Also, simply put, they have poor english skills. I think the author did a great service by… Read more »

HALF OF THE ENGLISH KIDS CANT READ ALEPH BEIS!!!!
Guest
HALF OF THE ENGLISH KIDS CANT READ ALEPH BEIS!!!!

FORGET GEMARA SKILLS!

someone
Guest
someone

when do u guys learn novi if u start gemara in fourth grade?

YG Melbourne is the solution
Guest
YG Melbourne is the solution

This author is putting into writing things I have been saying for the last 10 years- plus. (I completed the system and completed Smicha in Melbourne smicha.) But I disagree with his solution. The biggest problem with most yeshivahs is there is no structure. At the end of the year you go up to next shiur whether or not you have picked up any skills in the previous year. There are very few tests. There are very few exams. There is very little feedback on your learning achievements and places where you need to improve. I call it the “conveyor… Read more »

Your right on the mark
Guest
Your right on the mark

After attending for elementary school, ULY on ocean parkway and then Torah Vodas for high school! 1: I was off the derech and 2: I couldn’t break my teeth on a peice of gemarah let alone barely read Hebrew past regular davening and such. We are not talking learning disabled here we are talking never having learned the necessary skills. The saddest part of this scenario its all too common. I see ‘frum’ boys breaking their teeth on a brocha at a bris or sheva brachot etc. Today I am frum married and building a torah home but it took… Read more »

POKEIACH IVRIM VSOMAIACH NOFLIM VMATIR ASSURIM
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POKEIACH IVRIM VSOMAIACH NOFLIM VMATIR ASSURIM

GOOD MORNING! This has been the sad case for decades the standard of teaching unzerer how to learn a blatt gemarah on their own is appalling with many of the “melamdim” not fit for purpose. Most can barely learn themselves and resort to preparing their shiur with art scrolls. The Reshab recommendation for iyun was in a generation that didnt need art scrolls and melamdim were talmidei chachamim. All the yeshivois are interest in today is money money money. They want to charge ivy league fees but cant provide ivy league chinuch for our kids. Most of these melamdim (and… Read more »

YE$$$ODAI HATORAH
Guest
YE$$$ODAI HATORAH

*69 SO TRUE! FEES IS ALL THEY CARE ABOUT. YOU CAN SEND YOUR BROOMSTICK TO SIT IN CLASS OR ZAL AS LONG AS PARENTS PAY HARVARD TYPE FEES. WHATS EVEN MORE HILARIOUS IS THESE UNQUALIFIED EXCUSES FOR ROSH YESHIVOIS ACT AS IF THEY ARE DOING THE PARENTS A FAVOUR BY TAKING ACCEPTING YOUR CHILD IN THE FIRST PLACE, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOTHING WHAT TO OFFER THE PARENTS, THE TOP CLASS CHINUCH PARENTS DESERVE FOR THE FEES YESHIVOIS CHARGE!!!! THOSE ZIKNEI ANASH THAT LEARN WELL TODAY, (OR YUNGERLEIT WHO BECAME LUBAVITCH LATER AFTER THEY LEARNT IN LITVISHER YESHIVOIS), ARE MOSTLY… Read more »

Rabbi Moshe Moscowitz - Chicago
Guest
Rabbi Moshe Moscowitz - Chicago

I have dealt with this problem for decades. Instead of venting I have spent my life trying to “open worlds” to all – Chasidim, Litvishe. The sad part is that it is not only a “gemara” issue, it is a lack of understanding in seforim at large. Honestly, when we look at the footnotes of Likutei Sichos, how many of these seforim that the Rebbe quotes are we familiar with. There are 52,000 seforim online in hebrewbooks.org. This is not the platform to go into details, but for years I taught in Mesivta, every Sunday, for an hour and a… Read more »

i agree with you totally
Guest
i agree with you totally
If ther is no struicture tests or exams, is there any wonder at the result?
Guest
If ther is no struicture tests or exams, is there any wonder at the result?

Imagine someone music in a music collage for 10 long years. All day he learned music. After 10 years he looks back and is not confident he can read a page of music comfortably. How would we view this music college where 10 years of learning and good percentage of the students are music illiterate? In school and university there structure and progress is tested with tests and exams. If the student is not progressing then the student can not move onto the next level. In Yeshivah, if there is no structure and no exams to measure progress is it… Read more »

to Meir
Guest
to Meir

I have to say, your English is good.Many kids are not happy because they can’t express their thoughts and questions.
Thank you for speaking up
shulamis b.

Right and Wrong
Guest
Right and Wrong

The argument is a very valid one being that both sides are correct! It is very clear that the way gemoro is ultimately supposed to be learned is b’iyun that’s the way it has always bin learned by all Torah scholars the problem begins when one before he can even read the gemoro tries to go a step deeper! Take an example the Yeshivah in moscow (as the author mentioned although his details of the way they learn there wasn’t so accurate) ask the Rosh yehivah anytime (and I know this because I’ve heard it from him) the ultimate Derech… Read more »

Double Standards
Guest
Double Standards

EVEN SADDER: 440 were more concerned about Mattosyohu’s beard cutting and only 74 abiout the chinuch of their children…..what a tragic state of affairs…

The Freideiker Rebbe expressed the same sentiments when he complained that only subjects he doesn’t specialise in everyone asked his opinion but very few on chinuch……

agav
Guest
agav

by the way in moscow when they get to zal they do learn iyun… what you are saying is right benogea yeshiva ktana.

well said
Guest
well said

dear meir, what you just wrote is what many gedolim particularly of the yeshivishe velt have been complaining about for years as it is said “ASHREI MI SHABALEKAN VETALMUDO BEYADO” and with this method of learning beiyun as the main limud of the day halevai we would be able to remember any amud gemara we ever learned in our entire lives!!!!! so my advice to you is to read an English Sefer written by Rabbi Jonathan Rietti Titled “A One Minute Masmid” which quotes many gedolim who said that in our yeshivas which were the litvish yeshivas(it seems to me… Read more »

mother
Guest
mother

For many years in yeshiva, my son didnt do well and then he did smicha and he did extremely well, was interested, went to sleep and got up on time for learning. He said the reason why was he had a clear structure and for him it made a big difference

YG melb
Guest
YG melb

more yeshiva need to take on the way Yeshiva Gedola in Melbourne Australia works. The yehsiva is split up into learning levels rather than ages therefore when a bochur moves up a shuir he feels he has gained and motivated to move up to the next shuir.

Shmuli moscowitz
Guest
Shmuli moscowitz

I could not agree more with the person that wrote this article, I feel as if it is I myself writing it. I have been to a few yeshivas and there is the same problem in every one that the maggidei shiurim do not take interest in the bochurim and where they are holding learning wise. They are here for themselves or to make their Yeshivas have a good name…(There are some exclusions to this). A bochur has to be happy and feel accomplished in his learning. Last year when I was in Morristown I decided enough is enough and… Read more »

About time.....
Guest
About time.....

just a quick note… I totally understad whre this bochur is coming from…. todays yeshivas the way they run are not the way they used to be….the expertise just isnt around anymore.. hopefully iyh someone will try to rectify this as there is nothing at the moment being done to help..

Why not also...
Guest
Why not also...

teach boys to read English?

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