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Thursday, 15 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 18, 2019

    Rabbis: Obligation to Report Abuse

    107 prominent US-based charedi Rabbis have signed a public pronouncement declaring the halachic obligation to report child abuse to police. Full Story

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    Couldn't they find even 1 rav that signs his name in lashon hakodesh?
    Guest
    Couldn't they find even 1 rav that signs his name in lashon hakodesh?

    It doesn’t look too convincing all in English…

    Oh No
    Guest
    Oh No

    I know of two situations of people who are not reporting becaue they don’t want to see the name go up on wall of shame and thereby cause shame to this individual’s family.

    FINALLY
    Guest
    FINALLY

    Wish this letter wouldve come out years ago….Their are sooo many young adults who were kids then and feel no one woulve believed them….

    only one Chabad rabbi?
    Guest
    only one Chabad rabbi?

    Why is there only one Chabad rabbi, out of 107 names?

    sinas chinom brought the churban
    Guest
    sinas chinom brought the churban

    Yes, this is how it should be.
    The problem is when people misuse this psak by reporting individuals who they know is not a molester or a risk. They use their sinas chinom, jealousy, power hungry aspirations to report and crush others for no legitimate reason which of course a horrible horrible thing to do- to be a moiser knowing that this guy is not a molester. how about also signing and those who report when not needed should be put in cherem , chilul Hashem is way big.

    statement
    Guest
    statement

    Jcw should also get chabad rabbis and mashpaim to sign here

    CH Beit Din
    Guest
    CH Beit Din

    We are bind by the Crown Heights Beis Din
    Did they sign?

    Agree with # 5
    Guest
    Agree with # 5

    I’ve seen cases of this too.
    Thank you.

    Pinchos Woolstone
    Guest
    Pinchos Woolstone

    excellent development

    yes # 3 you are so right
    Guest
    yes # 3 you are so right

    These young adults are suffering till today…Hopefully chabad Rabbis that are mentchlich will endorse this letter too if not go out of chabad for help…

    Here we go again....
    Guest
    Here we go again....

    BOREING!!!

    It's about time.
    Guest
    It's about time.

    I ama clinical psychologist with a great deal of experience in child sexual abuse. Believe me, the authorities are much better off handling this, and a rabbi or a teacher is a mandated reporter. As for someone who might report someone maliciously…I have never encountered this. I have seen children report falsely in custody hearings, but this issue is always addressed by the court. More often children are very reluctant to disclose because they fear being disbelieved, retaliation by the accused, or that they themselves are responsible. I once addressed a large group of Protestant clergy on this very issue… Read more »

    JCW is a Vigilante Organization
    Guest
    JCW is a Vigilante Organization

    Yes, we need to stop molestation and abuse; however, there needs to be a cost-benefit analysis as to what preemptive measures should be taken. There is a problem of sexual abuse and molestation, and we have an obligation to prevent it, but at what cost? Can we make mistakes, speculations, or fallacious assumptions to accuse the few, who are not truly guilty, to prevent further abuse? Unfortunately many have been abused, and we must do everything we can to prevent others from being abused. Nevertheless, this does not justify ruining more lives’ of individuals and their families in situations where… Read more »

    Good Idea
    Guest
    Good Idea

    when right things are done by the right people. The facts
    are not what they may seem to be . One must do some
    self introspection regarding their status as Jew/human being
    before they are qualified to seeking faults in others. Only
    after self introspection can they begin to think, obviously
    about themselves which will humble them from the desire
    to judge others.

    Know
    Guest
    Know

    We don’t need 100 rabbonim to know this

    Mike
    Guest
    Mike

    To #3 I believe these rabbis still couldn’t care less the only reason why today people (the rabbis)are going along with it is because there’s pressure from outsiders who cared enough to make an issue out of it as for the rabbis they’re still in Lala land. P.s What’s about people who are getting abused in their marriages that’s for another lifetime

    #1
    Guest
    #1

    to No: 1
    do all of us have to read in Chodesh Elul your Loshon Horo

    if you dont have something good to say please don’t say it .

    This is not in-line with Halacha.
    Guest
    This is not in-line with Halacha.

    Boruch Hashem, Tes Ellul, Brooklyn, NY: Anyone with even a cursory understanding of the Halachos relating to this would know that this broad psak does not have a basis in Halacha, but rather demonstrates ignorance among many who have supported it. As follows: There certainly are circumstances where reporting to secular authorities is not only allowed according to Halacha, but required -if necessary-, however, there definitely are also many circumstances (that the above psak includes) where it is forbidden to go to the authorities even if abuse was confirmed and/or even if it was admitted by the abuser. Furthermore, one… Read more »

    Amazing
    Guest
    Amazing

    This is groundbreaking news. Happy we will live in a safer society for our kids. Thank you Rabbis.

    Abuse or molestation?
    Guest
    Abuse or molestation?

    Does this include to report a parent or teacher who beats their kid?

    this is a great start
    Guest
    this is a great start

    so proud that these rabbis have signed….although im shocked how by the people commenting. they are hiding something…

    mrs leah brown
    Guest
    mrs leah brown

    bit late!! Also why are Vienna Chabad not offering compassion to Beth Alexander who so cruelly had her little boys taken from her!!

    LA MORAH
    Guest
    LA MORAH

    Iis it just me or does anyone else have the feeling that the 10 or so anti posts were all written by the same person? You can say whatever you want about JCW but what are YOU doing to protect are children? What was anyone in a position of authority doing before JCW broke down the wall of silence and cover up?

    Identity of #18
    Guest
    Identity of #18

    If you are the halachic authority you claim to be, why don’t you sign your name?

    Not a JCW Project
    Guest
    Not a JCW Project

    Why the assumption this is the work of JCW? It’s obviously not.

    "Odom Muod LeOlam!!!"
    Guest
    "Odom Muod LeOlam!!!"

    “A human being is always responsible for his or her actions.” – Bava Kama 26a One cannot put the onus of one’s own action on another person. Therefore, terrible as csa is, it is never an issue of pikuach nefesh (which is claimed as the basis for this kol kore), since the threat to life is brought on by the individual who actually takes the life, never on someone else who distressed them, however so. It is a grave error to publicize the viewpoint that those people have, since they are effectively supporting, albeit falsely, that such a rash reaction… Read more »

    mistaken
    Guest
    mistaken

    #18 shows a very poor understanding of child molestation, the long term effects of molestation on victims, which in many cases in the secular, frum and even Lubavitch worlds has led to suicide. He also betrays extreme naivety if he thinks that victims won’t make their stories public and go to the courts themselves when they come of age.

    #18 - Abuse Is Pikuach Nefesh
    Guest
    #18 - Abuse Is Pikuach Nefesh

    I applaud your reading of halacha, but I would strongly suggest you to gain a better understanding of the mental effects abuse has on a child. Namely, the large number of cases where abused children attempt or commit suicide, Chas Vashalom. The studies on abuse point this out. Suicide is a common response to being abused. Stopping an abuser from further abusing either the same child or other children, Chas Vashalom, is a mater of Pikuach Nefesh! Please familiarize yourself with the medical and psychological studies on the deadly effects abuse has on a child.

    To Rabbi #18
    Guest
    To Rabbi #18

    Why cant this be a special case where the Rabonim are allowed to make an exception in a situation where they feel they have no control, no means to enforce, and the situation is dire? Doesn’t the Shulchan Aruch allow (for limited time-frames) exceptions? Also – Since the need to report is “mandated” by the State, It is not the same as Masira where you made a choice to report to the courts. How do you know that you are obligated to brake a state mandate? Why cant reason #1 and #2 together create the basis of a Heter by… Read more »

    we dont want to see this
    Guest
    we dont want to see this

    According to American law you need no proof. According to Jewish law you do.
    So many people are falsely accused. And this is today’s new weapon

    Not sure about everything it says...
    Guest
    Not sure about everything it says...

    “…the secular law enforcement of that information. These individuals have the experience, expertise and training to thoroughly and responsibly investigate the matter.” So basically if you have a suspicion of some sort and “you kinda think this guy is doing something” just go to the police and tell them. Because they will surely not arrest him before doing proper and thorough investigation… And he for sure won’t be put up on JCW until he’s convicted… YA RIGHT. Report who you got to report, just realize if you’re not 1000% right, you just messed up someone’s life (much more than being… Read more »

    #24
    Guest
    #24

    Concern yourself with the merits of comment #18 instead of seeking to assassinate their individual character because you don’t like the Torah facts they reveal.

    Please
    Guest
    Please

    To number 18 – your comments make solid reading. It would be good if you signed your name and state if you are a Rav.
    Also you stated that you would be willing to reply to those wanting to know the Torah standpoint. Could you kindly supply an email address for this. Many thanks

    To the arrogant and ignorant halachic decisor
    Guest
    To the arrogant and ignorant halachic decisor

    See the book “headlines” by Rabbi Dovid Lichtenstein for an in depth look at this subject. A. How can a person even THINK that he knows better than ONE HUNDRED poskim and rashei yeshiva?! Arrogance? B. I believe an important source is a SMA in the laws concerning Mesira who paskens that when someone is a threat to the community even in monetary cases, he may be reported to the secular authorities. A molester for sure enters that category. C. I still seriously can’t fathom how a person thinks he knows more about Halacha than one hundred poskim whose very… Read more »

    Naomi krinsky (sydney)
    Guest
    Naomi krinsky (sydney)

    Unless someone puts their name to a post it means very little.
    So please if you feel you are 100% correct in this area say who u are!!!! No blame no shame in it.!!! Unless u think differently, explain the reason for not putting your name out there.

    finally
    Guest
    finally

    its about time!!
    and to #1 who cares how they sign. at least in English everyone can see clearly who signed it. and if that is what is the only thing concerning you over this whole thing.. well that is pretty pathetic.

    @ Mike (# 16)
    Guest
    @ Mike (# 16)

    “I believe these rabbis still couldn’t care less the only reason why today people (the rabbis)are going along with it is because there’s pressure from outsiders who cared enough to make an issue out of it as for the rabbis they’re still in Lala land.” And I believe that is an inflammatory, ignorant and wholly judgemental statement. How can you say that about people you haven’t met and know nothing about? It’s because of bitter people like you that there isn’t more unity in our circles. Awful. Just as a side note: it states clearly that it was a Rabbi… Read more »

    Crown Heights Beis Din Did Sign
    Guest
    Crown Heights Beis Din Did Sign

    To all those asking where is the CH Beis Din, they put out a similar letter 2 years ago.

    WARNING
    Guest
    WARNING

    A molester should absolutely be reported, but PLEASE, PLEASE make 1000% sure that you are reporting someone who you know without a shadow of a doubt that he is really and truly guilty of this crime, otherwise you are simply ruining an innocent persons life!!!! Before anyone thinks about it, read this book; “IN THE LIONS DEN” by Daniel G.

    Wake up time
    Guest
    Wake up time

    For anyone who feels that the police investigate before arresting and jailing a person, and that CHW checks read Daniel Granovetter’s story. It will shock you into reality. The name of his book is “in the lion’s den”

    Educate yourselves: read about CSA from the experts
    Guest
    Educate yourselves: read about CSA from the experts

    Read “Breaking the Silence- Sexual Abuse in the Jewish Community” edited by David Mandel and David Pelcovitz.
    To any of you interested in this subject and to those of you like #39, until professionals do an investigation, it is rare that you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. And if it is so obvious, such as with physical evidence, then reporting should be straightforward. And even then, unfortunately it’s not always done.

    Crown Heightser
    Guest
    Crown Heightser

    Well, doesn’t it speak volumes when we see that Chabad Rabbonim are not included?

    It can mean one of two things:

    Either, Chabad Rabbonim disagree with this Kol Kriya, and therefore we do not recognize this;

    Or, the authors of the Kol Kriya do not recognize Chabad Rabbonim, and therefore we do not recognize this either.

    The conclusion is the same: It has no application to Chabad.

    #29
    Guest
    #29

    The simple answer to your arithmetic is: No. They do not claim to be issuing a ‘NEW’ Rabbinic Decree. They are [falsely] claiming that broad reporting is ALREADY required by Torah due to Pikuach Nefesh, which -again- is false. According to Halacha if someone takes their own life, ONLY they themselves can be held responsible for it, no matter what stresses they were subject to; end of story. Furthermore, this is not a case of how to deal with a guilty party or someone who commits a specified permitted action (and is forewarned not to), both of which Rabbinic Decrees… Read more »

    To #42
    Guest
    To #42

    It is a “kol koreh” NOT a kol “kriya” (kriya means: a. reading, ex. ba’al koreh; b. tearing ex. an ovel tears kriya)

    #43
    Guest
    #43

    The problem is that a Bs’d does not have the ability to investigate, prosecute and more importantly control these dangerous people. Whats the point of calling them to Bs’d?? This isn’t dinei mumonus. As long as the Rabonim decided that a pedophile may be reported as an exception it doesn’t have to fall into all the halachic guidelines of pikuach nefesh. They are only using that term as a figure of speech. The Heter is that THEY are making an exception because they don’t have an answer to internally resolve this problem in the diaspora so they made this decree… Read more »

    Finally!!!!! To 18 Yes I'm being emotional right now
    Guest
    Finally!!!!! To 18 Yes I'm being emotional right now

    This letter should be printed and given out everywhere!!! Enough is enough with sick people damaging pure souls! Enough is enough! About time a bunch of rats die in jail or get the same treatment they did to their victims!

    #45
    Guest
    #45

    The subject is not “a pedophile”, it’s someone who has a suspicion that someone may be. They have not established whatsoever any guidelines for what constitutes sufficient suspicion (which is the what a B”D would do on a case by case basis), they have left ALL Jews at the mercy of ANYONE and EVERYONE. So no, it is not justified. Also, no one is suggesting the B”D should conduct the entire matter, but to oversee that only legitimate suspicions are reported, since those which are not legitimate (by Halochic standards) may not be reported. Also note: THEIR reasoning for justifying… Read more »

    #18
    Guest
    #18

    The kol kore interprets “Lo samod” as making sure no harm befalls a Jew. They don’t mention pikuach nefesh at all as a basis. your arguments are based on an incorrect assumption. There are clear halachos about mesira lb”d akum. I assume that these rabbanim have done their research into this specific matter and come to this conclusion.
    One can claim that one or two rabbis made a halachic error. To assume that 107 rabbanim of world renown all made the same mistake, is foolish. Obviously, there are some factors you aren’t taking into account.

    To number 42
    Guest
    To number 42

    Even if your latter conclusion is true (that they don’t “hold” of Lubavitch rabbanim) the halachic obligation is still there. Shulchan Aruch is Shulchan Aruch regardless of who points out the halacha

    A JCW fan
    Guest
    A JCW fan

    To the dissenters – keep on maintaining and producing your viewpoint. It’s irrelevant, it’s been overruled, it’s been condemned. Too bad for you. If you had any courage, you’d state your names clearly…but you have no courage to actually stand behind your “Torah viewpoint”.

    #48
    Guest
    #48

    Basic Arithmetic: As written above: “Lives could be … Torah says Lo Saamod”. Pikuach nefesh is what “Lo Saamod” refers to. Hello.. Beis Din should be informed of cases and they should rule when necessary that ruthless heretics may be involved so that it is within a framework of Dinei Torah. They certainly should not support having ruthless heretics decide if the involvement of ruthless heretics is necessary. This can’t even be considered as an option unless loss of life would occur before an “emergency” Beis Din can be convened. The Beis Din may not have a [ruthless heretical or… Read more »

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