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Monday, 19 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 22, 2019

    Rabbi Decries “Tznius at Ohel”

    A call by Rabbi Yechezkel Soffer of Jerusalem who criticized the tznius regulations at the Rebbe's Ohel was described as 'out of line.' Rabbi Avraham Shemtov told COLlive he 'won't dignify it with a comment.' Full Story

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    cant!!!
    Guest
    cant!!!

    you cant control others
    and plus not frum people who are getting closer from peoples chabad hoses dont know better

    Rabbi Shemtov
    Guest
    Rabbi Shemtov

    The rebbe’s man. Always bringing kavod to Lubavitcher and the rebbe.

    A thinker?
    Guest
    A thinker?

    Is that one who thinks for a living?

    Technically wrong but..
    Guest
    Technically wrong but..

    the tznius there is a complete joke and totally disrespectful.

      It takes a strong man to stand up and say" the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes."
    Guest
    It takes a strong man to stand up and say" the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes."

    There is an issue of tznieus there. Gimmel tammuz … I was shocked to see men jewish herding women and standing almost against them in tight spaces. At times practicly pushing them with their hands. There isn’t any other alternative to this? Don’t remember in the Rebbe’s times the Vad ever coming that close to the women, but then again if this is a sign of the times it isn’t such a shocker and doesn’t bother those that run the ohel when you see whats going on in crown heights and all over the world. We all know deep in… Read more »

    Tzinus
    Guest
    Tzinus

    Rabbi Sofer is absolutely right. I found the mixed davvening at the Ohel disturbing.

    check out ch!
    Guest
    check out ch!

    this guy would have a heart atttack to see the lack of tznius on the streets of the rebbes neighborhood. is avremel saying anything about that???

    Let's not make problems.let's just talk
    Guest
    Let's not make problems.let's just talk

    The inyun of the Rebbe always to befriend people from all backgrounds. yes, everything in life could always be improved,and if it can,it should. That being said, there has to be a bit of open-mindedness. no one is coming to the ohel to for any negative agendas. We all have problems and all need a Brochas for something.If we can make adjustments,o.k.but let’s not make life harder than it is. The Rebbe would welcome all,and let’s not look for more arguments. F.L.

    what was wrong about what he said?
    Guest
    what was wrong about what he said?

    I was a student of rabbi soffer and I know he can say some very controversial things but I don’t see what was invalid about his comments this time. Is there no room for improvement? Does the truth hurt so much that we have to deny it? An upgrade in tznius wouldn’t hurt anyone. I look forward to the new improvements the next time I have the zchus to visit the ohel.

    shmaya
    Guest
    shmaya

    well of course if RAS didn’t think of it first it can’t be prudent!

    agree
    Guest
    agree

    I agree with R. Soffer.

    OUTRAGEOUS
    Guest
    OUTRAGEOUS

    It is no wonder how are community is going off the path of Torah when are leadersbrush off & run away from so blatant an issue. True that Rabbi Soffer could”ve & maybe should”ve used a different medium to bring up this issue but what does that have to do with the bottom line? The Ohel is a place where people get very emotional & that is not a place for mixed company. And yes I know people will scream we are not Satmar but we are Chareidim “Chared Lidvar Havaya” & Just open up your eyes & see what… Read more »

    Shemtov cant face the truth
    Guest
    Shemtov cant face the truth

    קבל את האמת ממי שאמרה
    except the truth from the one that said it, if he said it to you directly or spoke out on the web so people listen makes no deference. face the fact and say what you think RAbbi Shemtov, if you think he is wrong say it out loud, don’t mingle your way out by saying he should have came to you with this issue.

    Good Point
    Guest
    Good Point

    I think that it is a good point for the “tent” to be separated, however it does not have to be done in the media. And I think that if a Shliach brings a few dozen people to the ohel, thought has to be taken how the other gender gets direction if it is split.

    I hate to agree with Rabbi Shemtov, BUT
    Guest
    I hate to agree with Rabbi Shemtov, BUT

    He’s absolutely right. Something like this needs to be taken care of by Rabonim out of the limelight.

    15 years
    Guest
    15 years

    Rabbi Yechezkel Soffer it took you 15 year to come up with this problem

    rabbi shemtov is right
    Guest
    rabbi shemtov is right

    this is not a pace to discuss this!
    media generally take thing out of wak!!!!

    how could he
    Guest
    how could he

    Being a self proclaimed Lubavitcher, how could he go to the media and cUse scluch a chilel lubavitch?

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Anonymous

    Soon the comments from the liberated lubavitchers will come and say how not only aren’t we like satmar but they will advocate mixed seating in 770!! R”L

    Stay in Israel
    Guest
    Stay in Israel

    While the good rabbi may have a point he is way out of line here. It seems that if he was truly concerned about the issues he would have turned to the authorities that be. His ranting in the public domain indicates that he is primarily concerned with his own self righteous indignation not the state of tznius.
    How would the wise rabbi feel if one were to go public with concerns about him before speaking with him personally about it?
    This is no less slanderous than absolute lashon hara!!!

    go shemtov go
    Guest
    go shemtov go

    that`s a very true point. if u really care about tznius (or anything in judaism all together), and want that something should be done about it, don`t go posting articles all over the place about the person/group/place you want to change. rather, speak to that person/group/place directly and express to THEM your feelings on the matter! that`s the ONLY way you can properly have an effect on somebody. this is a lesson you can learn for LIFE! KUDOS TO AVREMEL SHEMTOV!!!

    what`s the problem???
    Guest
    what`s the problem???

    one second. isn`t the ohel the place where all shiduchim take place? 🙂

    Where have you been?
    Guest
    Where have you been?

    This guy is quick – 15 years after gimmel tammuz he found a new topic to write about!
    We don’t need thinkers – we need doers, stop kvetching, stop writing PELASE and if you rcare try to have a positive impact on todays youth – that they should grow beards and be chassidim.

    Rabbi
    Guest
    Rabbi

    these are yerushalmi indeviduals who have nothing else to do with there life

    Rabbi Shemtov and Rabbi Sofer are correct...
    Guest
    Rabbi Shemtov and Rabbi Sofer are correct...

    Sitting down together and discussing the situation will surely make coming to the Ohel a more meaningful experience. At the moment, using the facilities we have; the men can go in through the front door and go to the tent at the right and the women can go through the alley and write in the first tent. Maybe there can be a cordoned rope for the men to walk through the first tent to the pathway to the Ohel. Men and women can be respectful towards each other and leave a space when walking the walkway. Is this a good… Read more »

    A Rosh Yeshiva
    Guest
    A Rosh Yeshiva

    I agree with Rabbi Sofer inside the Ohel how can one seriously pray facing women its a joke!
    The fact that it was not discussed yet means nothing! sometimes we only understand things forty years later.

    hahaha
    Guest
    hahaha

    stay in Israel

    Kol Hakovod to R' Sofer
    Guest
    Kol Hakovod to R' Sofer

    I expect higher standards from the Rosh of Agudas Chasidei Chabad – Our Tznius problems start at the top. What a shame that our leaders are oblivious to the blatant lack of tznius in the Rebbes Daled Amos.

    R’ Sofer is correct in going public – our leaders need to hear the feedback that we demand higher standards.

    I agree
    Guest
    I agree

    I agree that the tzniyus issue at the Ohel and in Crown Heights in general needs to be taken control of. Chabad is still a Chasidus…and the behavior amongst the Girls and Bachorim is completely out of control..How is Moshiach suppose to come if there is so much lack of TZINUS going on in so many communities around the world. Please try and consider a part of what the Rabbi sad…We are stuck in Golus for too long!

    Ohel is for Davening - Maaneh Loshon
    Guest
    Ohel is for Davening - Maaneh Loshon

    Anybody who thinks that going to the ohel is for entertainment! He has a problem !!
    When your eyes are in the tehillim ,and heart with the Rebbe you are oblivious of your surroundings .
    Those who see problems , They have a problem !
    apparently they are not as holy as you think .
    I am ashamed of those who make the call and throw stones ,they should watch out they have windows too !

    its not about tznius here
    Guest
    its not about tznius here

    its about a yerushalmi and a russian chossid – no chance they will never come to terms (although they might share the same exact opinions)

    Soffer Please!?
    Guest
    Soffer Please!?

    Don’t Publcily scrutinize and criticize the Ohel of all places. For G-d’s Sake!!!!!!
    If you cared about the issue more than seeing yourself in the news you would certainly NOT have spoken up in this manner.

    Discretion
    Guest
    Discretion

    With all due respect,rabbi sofer, you should have thought more than once maybe nine times before making such a statement. maybe the tenth time you would go through the proper channels,and if you are really interested in accomplishing something ,your concerns would be taken in the right vein and would be worked on in a more constructive manner.

    Rabbi from Kiryat Mockin
    Guest
    Rabbi from Kiryat Mockin

    Does he even go to the Ohel?
    or he hasn’t been going b/c of the Mechitza situation…
    Maybe he had a change of heart and now wants to start going but he has an issue with getting in….
    or maybe he feels that women have to be in the kitchen and taking care of kids after 5 pm so there should be no entrance for them after 5……
    either way Maybe PM Bibi Netanyahu will say something in the next few days for these two Rabbis to start focusing on what they focus best.

    Has he been to russia
    Guest
    Has he been to russia

    While it was def a while back, I don’t recall any of the previous rebbeim’s kvorim have separate places for men and women

    I always wondered....
    Guest
    I always wondered....

    Besides for feeling uncomfortable each time I come to the ohel, about the place being so open between men and women, I always wondered why it is OK to daven, albeit not a shul, but nevertheless in clear view with men and women. I assumed the people in charge were not allowing something against halacha, but perhaps now is the time to ask for an explanantion. Also, about the ‘groups from Chabad Houses who don’t know any better’, we would never allow a shul without a mechizta, so if changes need to made at the ohel as well, they will… Read more »

    moshe der g
    Guest
    moshe der g

    great response from rabbis shemtov and refson

    people that care in general about any issue need to use the media as a last resort.

    and the one who knows that best is rabbis shemtov who succeded in getting the seforim out of poland. and it was all done quitely, and that was the sucecess

    Oh no...
    Guest
    Oh no...

    Yerushalmi will remain a yerushalmi;. Americans, please ignore.

    Rabbi shemtov
    Guest
    Rabbi shemtov

    Rabbi shemtov doesn’t disagree, he is just saying they should have come to speak to him first to rectify the issue!!!

    Don't Fool Yourselves
    Guest
    Don't Fool Yourselves

    Rabbi Sofer is correct!! Would you daven in a shul directly across from a guy with nothing in between? No, you wouldn’t… Truth hurts, but it IS THE TRUTH…
    Being Tznius isn’t being Satmar, its called Keeping the mitzvos of the Torah…
    And its sad that we feel so horrified that we would be associated with Satmar,

    to 30
    Guest
    to 30

    Brilliant! I think the same applies to 770! Who needs a separate vaiber shul?

    AGREE
    Guest
    AGREE

    Okay maybe Rabbi Shemtov does not wish to comment on COL, but what is he and the rest of Aguch going to do about the situation. Somehow many in Lubavitch think that we “don’t have to be like satmar” whenever anybody raises questions in Halcha. Are we interested in Halacha or are we “modern orthodox”. This goes for kashrus, tznius, shemiras shabbas etc. etc. etc.

    chilul hashe is a biger sin the nixst standing
    Guest
    chilul hashe is a biger sin the nixst standing

    with going on the internet and making a chilul hashen and chilul lubavitch is much wors, the wors of all that ther is no solution at all, on 3 tamuz tzniut is verry good, not evry day aguch can invest pepole and efort, only to critisize without giving a plan how ti solve the problem is only a disaster and generating a new machlokes, we hade inafe

    How about THIS????
    Guest
    How about THIS????

    How about SHLUCHIM taking cell phone calls IN the Ohel itself? Answering the phone & having conversations (in Hebrew, by the way) is OK?!

    The separator, I think, was put there to stop MEN from pushing into the women. So if you could please back off there wouldn’t be an issue.

    Take your holier-than-thou attitudes & leave us alone. Maybe you’d like to dig up the people who are buried en route from the tent/house to the Ohel? Would that be good enough for you?

    It's the ohel
    Guest
    It's the ohel

    The ohel is not a place regular people come to as a regular activity. It is not a shul. On days when it is really crowded, men and women go in at separate times. If R’ Sofer is right, then we need to put a mechitza in every space that exists in the entire world at all times.

    To #  30
    Guest
    To # 30

    Every Jew has only holy thoughts, but the fact that Chazal instituted Mechitzos in Shuls, where we don’t go for entertainment, only to daven to Hashem, shows that we must make safeguards, Assu syog laTorah.

    I knew this day was coming...
    Guest
    I knew this day was coming...

    I knew this day was coming…having been by kevuros in Eretz Yisroel over the years, and noting the “separation/segregation contrast” between years ago and currently (seemingly as in all things Jewish these days).
    Now, whether you agree: A) yay or nay, and/or B) if precedent was set by The Rebbe; long before Gimmel Tammuz, I think one possible, relatively unextreme/uninvasive way to address the issue here is to install slightly raised smoked Plexiglass on the women’s side, akin to the mechitza in 770. People already stand separately, the issue here is visibility. This would solve that problem.

    mechitza?
    Guest
    mechitza?

    As the mitteler rebbe writes, the ohel of our rabbeiim is like going into a yechidus. Families must be allowed in together. Itinerant cannot control his feelings standing in that mokom kodosh, one can always go to the side. Please stop the naarishkeit here…

    to 48
    Guest
    to 48

    did all families go in together?

    if they would allow only one family like by yechidus you’d be correct. By Yechidus Klolis they were seperated.

    Oh Please... #45
    Guest
    Oh Please... #45

    Don’t blow things out of proportion. Suggesting to have a mechitza in the Ohel is nothing like being separating the whole world… Having a mechitza in a place of tefillah is NORMAL… Why is everyone so shocked??

    What happened until now
    Guest
    What happened until now

    The Rebbe went to the Ohel for over 40 years and never said anything, was it different then?

    How do you know
    Guest
    How do you know

    I am a big fan of abba refson and the way the ohel is run so effiecently. However it has always bothered me as a bochur and now as a father, how not only there is a mixed open hefker feeling, but that its impossible for those who want to avoid that, especially before they go in the ohel, that they cant avoid it. A mixed family, or shluchim tent is fine, but nit right by the door that you cant get in or out of the ohel w/o being forced to squeeze by women. AND>> how do you know… Read more »

    I knew this day was coming (2)...
    Guest
    I knew this day was coming (2)...

    BTW what I mean by “slightly raised smoked Plexiglass on the women’s side”, is basically: just in women’s area install a few panels of Plexiglass above the current inner surrounding stone wall with a few inch gap between the stone and glass to allow for placing kvitlach. YPH

    Thank you for the partition
    Guest
    Thank you for the partition

    As a young woman who has been going to the ohel for years, I feel much more comfortable and private with my tefilos now that the partition is there.

    HAPPY
    Guest
    HAPPY

    WHAT GOS ON IN ISRAEL BY THE HOLY PLACES?

    When will they get rid of that ugly chain fence ,
    Guest
    When will they get rid of that ugly chain fence ,

    The Ohel was fine when the Rebbe would go there , if there was a need some for additional Tznius “security precautions” dont you think the Rebbe would have notified us? Please leave the purity and sanctity of the only place i can feel a true and deep Kedusha . untainted by fundamentalism.PLEASE dont ruin the Ohel for me!!!

    Maybe the time for some arrangement has come
    Guest
    Maybe the time for some arrangement has come

    There is a difference now from years ago. Only in recent years has there been such tremendous crowds on a regular basis.
    I wouldn’t want a firm, real mechitza at the ohel itself that would block me from seeing the matzeivos.
    In the tent there has already been separate areas on very busy days.

    To 56
    Guest
    To 56

    When the Rebbe went to the Ohel, other people didnt go in at the same time. He was alone in the Ohel, so there didnt need to be a mechitza, adding a mechitza has nothing to do with so called fundamentalism

    shmaya
    Guest
    shmaya

    Is ur last name krinsky 😉

    OMG
    Guest
    OMG

    for all those asking why the rebbe never said anything about a michitza by the ohel maybe its because it was never a problem.

    Soffer is right
    Guest
    Soffer is right

    Shemtov’s attitude and recalcitrance is disturbing.

     A simpler solution
    Guest
    A simpler solution

    A possible simple solution is having a monitor giving set amounts of time to the men & to the women each group enters on their own no mixing in the ohel.As for outside the ohel in the cemetery you can’t do anything In the tent you can have a mechitza

    Berl
    Guest
    Berl

    Is Rabbi Sofer related to the Sofers that run COL?

    Just curious..

    Rabbi Sofer trying to be relevant
    Guest
    Rabbi Sofer trying to be relevant

    It’s dor hashmini anyway for Rabbi Sofer, why does he come to the ohel bichlal??
    I thought he would have nominated someone by now.
    This is rediculous. On all days when there is a crowd – the men and women go in shifts. They have been very responsible with the mechitza in the line leading to the ohel.
    Truth is that the women would line up outside/inside 770 .

    i agree
    Guest
    i agree

    i’ll admit, as a bochur myself, whenever I got to the Ohel and look at the Rebbe’s tziyon I usually am looking directly at young women davening right there. it’s sorta distracting. The ohel should be the last place easily prone for machshavos-zaros

    cant believe nobody said this!!
    Guest
    cant believe nobody said this!!

    you dont DAVEN in an ohel!!!!
    you say mane lashon or tehillim which is VERY different!!
    you dont need a mechitza to say tehillim….
    as for the tent for the most part they are pretty seperate…
    the walkway is narrow but as one poster said – people are buried there so there isnt much of a choice……
    just keep it in mind and act accordingly…

    halacha
    Guest
    halacha

    a michitaz is needed for a myniyan to daven if u are davning with out a minyan then look in the siddur and u dont need a michitza

    Less distractions = better ohel experience
    Guest
    Less distractions = better ohel experience

    It has nothing to do with whether or not it’s a shul, it has a lot to do with gatherings of people in close confines. And at a time when you want to pour out your heart, the more privacy is always better.

    moshiach now
    Guest
    moshiach now

    a mechitza is neded for dor hashvie and dor hashmini and for the yong kinderlech from dor hatshiee

    What would the Rebbe want
    Guest
    What would the Rebbe want

    I agree 100% with Rabbi Soffer and I was surprised no one has brought this up before. There should be a few places that are completly holy like a shul, the ohel included. Perhaps a family section as people would go together. But people who want to go without the distraction of the opposite gender should have a section.

    Move some graves
    Guest
    Move some graves

    I think that we should move around a few graves to expand the size of the Ohel and make a separate entrance for the women and widen the path leading to the Ohel… who did the long-term planning of that place?
    Oh, that’s right… a better plan is for us not look to find ways of Pirud and through the Achdus permanently close down the entire place with the coming of Mashiach.

    not such a fan
    Guest
    not such a fan

    I was never a fan of changing into crocks where there are a bunch of men around. It really seems too public of a place to do it. Lately I’ve going in my own crocks. But not always is that possible.

    Missed the point!
    Guest
    Missed the point!

    i dont think Rabbi Sofer’s point in writing this on col was to bash anyone online. I think the point was for all of us to get the message and be more careful about our own behavior at the ohel. I am sorry that the inappropriate, disrespectful response mentioned in this article emboldened people to shamelessly disrespect someone who many respect as a teacher. This might help explain the extreme lack of Kabalos Ol plaguing our youth!

    I see his point, BUT....
    Guest
    I see his point, BUT....

    Why is it the WOMEN who are 2nd class? Why do the women, with the babies and toddlers, need to go around the longer way? And why would they, with the strollers, somehow need to go upstairs to the top level? Let the men go up! let the men go around!

    #45 to #50
    Guest
    #45 to #50

    The ohel though is not a place where people come to on a regular basis. Most people and even those living close by only come a couple of times a year. Having a mechitza in a place of tefilla is because a shul (a place of tefilla) is a public place where everybody who lives close by must publicly gather together according to halacha every single day to daven. Mechitza in general has nothing to do with tefilla. The Rebbe said that there should be a mechitza at weddings. Are weddings a place of tefilla? Again, when it does get… Read more »

    We should be like New Square and Kiryas Yoel
    Guest
    We should be like New Square and Kiryas Yoel

    I was told that in New Square and Kiryas Yoel men and women walk on separate sides of the street. Can you imagine how much tznius in CH would be improved if we could do something like that on Kingston?

    Hasofer is right
    Guest
    Hasofer is right

    as a bocher their are a lot of prety girls davinig for a shiduch there.
    it is distracting

    He is right!
    Guest
    He is right!

    the ohel is a small space with lots of people, and there was never created separate places for men and woman, but with the amount of visitors arriding daily, and even more on special dates, they definatel should make designated enrances, places, at the tzion, and in the hall where we write the panim and change shoes..

    Guest

    the Rebbe agreed to Shemtov not Soffer.
    Albeit for good enough reasons.

    to 49.
    Guest
    to 49.

    Yechidus klolis were seperate but i am almost sure without a mechitzah.

    Who are we fooling?
    Guest
    Who are we fooling?

    Just wondering why people don’t think of making Tefilos in the Rebbes room “mixed” – does that mean that people who run the Rebbes room are Satmar? How about the Kosel, should we have mixed Davening there too? Ok for Davening not (b/c for Davening you need a Mechitza – a suppose even according to these “Lubavitchers”) But besides the Teffilos let it be nixed. Anyone who is sensitive to Yidishkeit, understands that it is not a right situation. Anyone that tries to watch over their thoughts knows and understands that this doesn’t help. For all those who say, that… Read more »

    to #61
    Guest
    to #61

    I totally understand r’ shemtov’s adamance about not giving a public answer being that most people will just take it wrong and not understand the depth of what he is saying, and he is definitly a guy the Rebbe trusted

    whether you agree or not....
    Guest
    whether you agree or not....

    whether you agree with Rabbi Soffer or not, you can not forget simple mentchlichkeit. he is a very knowledgable Rav and knows way more than you or me. there are ways to disagree adn you choose which way you will do???????

    too much bad about the holy ohel
    Guest
    too much bad about the holy ohel

    in all the years, there has not been self made shidduchim at the ohel, but rather on the streets of CH, there has not been hangouts or parties, but rather outside 770…..

    btw, rabbi n sudak, member of aguch, has been trying for years to build a mechitza, but most rabbonim didnt want to get invoved, but there has been a plan in place by the vaad at the ohel to split the tent and provide a separate path for women to enter the ohel

    RABBU SOFER END RABBAI DRUKMAN -KOL HAKAVOD!
    Guest
    RABBU SOFER END RABBAI DRUKMAN -KOL HAKAVOD!

    EMESE RABONIM/ !

    AL TEVOISHOO MIPNEU HAMALIGIM !

    I AGREE!!
    Guest
    I AGREE!!

    I hate going to the ohel and looking for a place to sit and write my pan and the only available spots are near men. Inside there must def be some changes! as for walking down the pathway, well that is single file and generally ok, not a problem. Just keep some space between the person in front of you and yourself. And then once IN the ohel, well there doesn’t seem to be any solution to seperating it in a way that doesnt make women second class. But as a girl I must admit its weird looking up and… Read more »

    Amen V'Amen
    Guest
    Amen V'Amen

    Chabad is not Satmar, but Chabad is not Reform at all. Why is it that when it comes to tznius, Chabad cleaves to the low standards in all the frum world? It’s shameful. We shouldn’t condemn people but we shouldn’t deny that we have a serious problem in tznius.

    we are shulchon-oruch edn ant thats all!
    Guest
    we are shulchon-oruch edn ant thats all!

    look what the alter rebbe pasknt in siman ע”ה SEIF א

    HARAV DROOKMAN IS RIGHT

    Ohel
    Guest
    Ohel

    The ohel was around before gimmel tammuz. If it was a problem wouldn’t the Rebbe have addressed it?

    to # 22
    Guest
    to # 22

    haha! and what will they do when they r getting engaged???

    um.....
    Guest
    um.....

    i always thought that the 1st door was for the men and the 2nd one was for teh women???????

    Chabad Tznius - look to the Rebbe
    Guest
    Chabad Tznius - look to the Rebbe

    #89, Chabad does not do things the same as the “chareidi” world. In Eretz Yisroel R’ Avadia Yosef recently screamed about how bad it is that women wear shaitels while they should really be wearing tichels. As lubavitchers we disagree because our Rebbe dafka wanted our women to wear shaitels. There are schools in CH where if they see a mother walking in the street with a tichel insted of a shaitel the kids can get kicked out of school. If the chassidim visited the ohel for 40 years without a “mechitza” and our Rebbe was fine with it I’ll… Read more »

    To #86
    Guest
    To #86

    If you’re that concerned about writing a Pan next to a man, why not write it at home? There is no mitzva to write your Pan in the tent ouside the ohel! Most men do it there because they go to the mikva at the ohel prior to writing their Pan. Women obviously don’t have that same issue so if you’re that worried write it at home.

    Sad to say
    Guest
    Sad to say

    I’m sorry to say this, but it’s been years that we have a problem with the rules of tznius. But whenever one dares talk about it, they are treated of being “Satmar” or we are told the same answer “protesting or being radical is not the way of Chabad. We must convey the message with love and kindness”. Ok, but now, this situation is in force for so many years and things get worse. We must stop playing the policy of the ostrich (pretending that the situation is not dramatic or that things will get better with kind words). No,… Read more »

    answer
    Guest
    answer

    yes rabbi soffer Is related to yossi soffer or col….

    to #92
    Guest
    to #92

    The Rebbe was ok with that because he was alone when he went to the Ohel, so no need of a mechitzah. Moreover, very a few people went to daven to the Ohel. Now, you may have hundred of people coming to the Ohel at the same time. It was not a problem in the Rebbe’s lifetime, but now it is, so we need improvment and a mechitzah. If you want to stay in the past, why don’t you say that women in the previous generation didn’t cover their hair? Or that men were used to shave their beard? Past… Read more »

    Let's clarify
    Guest
    Let's clarify

    a) What’s the Halacha? When is a mechitza required? Halacha required a mechitza during the 3 daily tefilos with a minyan and at certain events. b) It is not factual that every Kever Tzadikim has a Mechitza. Unless it’s changed in the last years, the Arizal’s kever has no Mechitza. The Rambam’s kever only got one a few years ago. c) Is there a practical way how to make a mechitza in the Ohel without seriously impacting the feel of the space? If you block the views then you are inevitably blocking the view of Tziyon. Plus, I’m sure that… Read more »

    cookies
    Guest
    cookies

    there should be male cookies and female cookies
    I’m tired of same gender cookies at the Ohel
    it’s not right

    to #94
    Guest
    to #94

    you say “It’s a question of Shulchan Aruch…” but you clearly don’t know what you are talking about. Ever wonder why there is no mechitza in a bais avel? or at a levaya? or at the Ohel for that matter?? Because according to Shulchan Aruch it’s not necessary!

    I am sure Rabbi Soffer has already tried to talk to officials.
    Guest
    I am sure Rabbi Soffer has already tried to talk to officials.

    I personally witnessed that tens of people have talked about this problem with them for years and nothing has been done.

    Why a man should have in front of his eyes a woman who takes off her shoes?
    Why a man has to stand in line between women and girls for a coffee?
    Why there must be such proximity between men and women when watching video of the Rebbe?

    tznius
    Guest
    tznius

    its definatle a point, we should elevate the stanadars of tzinius and have always mechitzas as there is whenever there are brig crwods like on gimwl tamuz

    First things first
    Guest
    First things first

    First ,I personally went the official route. I spoke to Rabbi Y. Krinsky about putting up a mechiza at Ohel. I saw a man at Ohel say Kaddish inside Ohel with Women not dressed properly accross from him. Rabbi Krinsky’s response was that it has been spoken about countless times however they do not have a good plan on how to do it. The Rebbe spoke many times about seperating the genders. Look at sicha of last parade lag bomer where the Rebbe said the men and woman have to be seperate by parade. Also by bichas hahamah where the… Read more »

    Why this major outcry against partitions?
    Guest
    Why this major outcry against partitions?

    Many of the women feel more comfortable saying tehillim and speaking their heart at the ohel without having men staring right at them. I am sure the men feel the same way. No-one loses. So what’s so terrible about having partitions? You need to examine your reasons for being so aggressively against any improvement in aidelkeit at the ohel.

    Do what the rebbe would do
    Guest
    Do what the rebbe would do

    If you think there is problem look סיכה of the rebbe that addreses this issue. Also many non frum people find it uncomfterble being totally separated and get very offended. There will always be some complaint about something and you can’t please everyone, but they always try Thier best

    Tzadikim Vs. Beinonim
    Guest
    Tzadikim Vs. Beinonim

    IT seems that those against the mechitzah are tzadikim, who have no yetzer hara. Those, like Rabbi Soffer, are still beinonim, and therefore feel a need for a mechitzah.

    So there should be a mechitzah since without it the beinonim are uncomfortable. But you could argue that the mechitzah offends the tzadikim, since it implies that there is such a thing as a yetzer hara. But since they are tzadikim they should be the ones to give in to the beinonim and allow the mechitzah.
    Shalom al yisrael!!!!

    I AGREE WITH RABBI SHEMTOV!!!
    Guest
    I AGREE WITH RABBI SHEMTOV!!!

    I AGREE WITH RABBI SHEMTOV 100%, The media is not the place to discuss this issue!!! I’m surprised with Rabbi Sofer and Rabbi Drukman for taking this issue to the media, rather than to the VAAD in charge in NY. (Hard to believe that the Rebbe was pro Tararms like this…) I have been many times by the Ohel, saw man and women going in and out etc..I think that thous who are coming to the Rebbe to ask for something or to thank him, don’t see or pay any attention to the others. CHASSIDIM who are truly going to… Read more »

    The Reality
    Guest
    The Reality

    I believe that in the Ohel itself the reality is that not much can be done, (I also think that the Rebbe designed the structure of the Ohel so no one can change that) so if need be, it requires us to elevate ourselves a little in these Holy Daled Aamos, there is simply not much that can be done. In the tent there is no davening so I don’t think it is a Halachah issue so, just as you wait in the grocery on line between ladies etc. wait here, and let’s not make an issue Let’s give a… Read more »

    Finally
    Guest
    Finally

    I though it was only me who felt uncomfortable going to the ohel with men all over the place. As a woman I’d love a mechitza. Why is the ohel any different from shul?
    Please, please put up a mechitza & separate tents!!!
    At last someone spoke up and if going through the media is the way to be heard so be it. And guess what the not yet frum really don’t mind mechitzas.

    An issue for the Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch
    Guest
    An issue for the Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch

    the supreme halochic authority for Aguch in America is Vaad rabonei Lubavitch.
    It would be reasonable to assume that Rabbi Shemtov would refer this issue (and similar issues) to the Rabbonim of this organization.

    surprise
    Guest
    surprise

    i´ve been to the ohel so many times and i never saw a problem with the mixing. i think people who go there, are just thinking how to prepare and have cavana. not for entretainment

    It's not what you do it's how you do it.
    Guest
    It's not what you do it's how you do it.

    Rabbi Shemtov’s reaction was to HOW THE ISSUE IS DEALT and if they would deal with a personal problem the same way!
    He didn’t dismiss the issue itself. What are these criticizers jumping!

    A Real problem
    Guest
    A Real problem

    It’s not a question of not being able to stay focused while at the Ohel, or of being a tzadik vs a beinoni. it”s a question of properly separating gender because the crowd is growing year after year and to avoid promiscuity that are countrary to the Halacha. I remember last year, while I was at the ohel, my elbow get into contact with the upper part of the woman behind me. Either we should have alternate hours to the ohel (from…to…for men and from…to…for women) or a Mechitzah. I know it’s technically difficult, but something shoulf be done as… Read more »

    Sofer is right and wrong.
    Guest
    Sofer is right and wrong.

    The tznius needs to be upgraded significantly, and I’m sure Rabbi Refson is the one to make the correct decision and implement it. Access to the Ohel cannot be limited as a result, though, and Sofer should not have gone to the media without attempting to rectify it through the normal channels first.

    dovid
    Guest
    dovid

    why dont we worry the way girls and women walk around in the summer time in c,h and the way going without a beard became a normal thing here in c,h now that a real thing to worry about , what c,h has become in the last 10 15 years , we have real prublams here and it all became so normal that no one bothers to talk about it,i think its a more major problam then whats going on by the ohel.

    To 114
    Guest
    To 114

    You’re wrong. There are not separated problem, but the same. It’s the global situation in Chabad that should be fix. If things go as they should in 770, things will be better in CH, things will be better at the Ohel and things will be better for the whole Chabad. Everything is conneced. But for things to get better, we need a strong and clear leadership to tackle once and for all that issue of tznius in our midst.

    This time R. Sofer is right.
    Guest
    This time R. Sofer is right.

    But it’s a lot easier to say he isn’t than to do something about it.

    chaim
    Guest
    chaim

    nu 14 so lets realy do somthing about this, your so rghit there is nothing you could do thats why no one talks about it

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Anonymous

    I think he has somekind of a point.. However it should be other enterances for the women or just that I personally feel and think that the men think that the Ohel is only thiers

    Boruch Hashem
    Guest
    Boruch Hashem

    It’s heartwarming and comforting to me to see that the majority of posts agree that tznius is a real issue in Lubavitch and SOMETHING MUST BE DONE! My faith in my community is somewhat restored!

    Now We Know
    Guest
    Now We Know

    Why the Rebbe was not burried in Israel,

    #6 Sorry to informed you
    Guest
    #6 Sorry to informed you

    You where Davening by Ezras Noshim.

    a major problem!!
    Guest
    a major problem!!

    tznius is a major problem in crown heights and elsewhere too.

    to #114
    Guest
    to #114

    Great idea. So why not let ALL other problems go, let all other situations go to seed, and not do a thing about any issues other than what we each perceive to be the big problem.

    KAH rabbi sofer u live too close to bnei brak!
    Guest
    KAH rabbi sofer u live too close to bnei brak!

    wow! let rabbi sofer daven in teh tinted windows on the second floor and leave the women alone and allow them to say maane loshon where they always did.
    and come to think of it, let him also pay for it and deal with all the permit problems and issues with ppl who think we shouldnt be building any permanent structures in the ohel for obvious reasons.

    cont.
    Guest
    cont.

    oh –he wants the women and children to walk extra and go through a further entrance, bec HE wants to stay in teh regular entrance, woahhhhhhh

    I agree
    Guest
    I agree

    B’h
    There should be separate entrances times etc!

    Live changing
    Guest
    Live changing

    I am BT and my wife is not religious at all. Only because she could go to the Ohel with me and had the chance to this, she now insists that we do this everytime we come NYC

    ....
    Guest
    ....

    Forget about tznius at the Ohel.
    WHAT ABOUT TZNIUS IN CROWN HEIGHTS? Year by year it is getting worse and worse.

    To 5
    Guest
    To 5

    Go Savage!!

    dovid meir drookman  - k. motzkin. eretz hakodesh
    Guest
    dovid meir drookman - k. motzkin. eretz hakodesh

    אינני רגיל כ”כ בכתיבת אנגלית, אבל מסתמא חלק גדול מהקוראים מבין לה”. ולהלן תגובתי – ל’טענה’ כי מי שעושה שינויים באוהל הק’ של הרבי “משחק באש” יש לי אליו כמה שאלות: מי התיר? * להוסיף תנורי חימום לאוהל * בחיי חיותו של הרבי זי”ע המשטח שסביב ציון הרבי הרייצ נ”ע היה – חצץ, אחרי ג’ תמוז לנוחיות המבקרים החליפו את החצץ באריחי בלטות. לשיטתם – מי התיר להם את ‘משחק האש’ הלזה? * להכניס ארון קודש עם ספר תורה ל’חדר הנרות’ *להקים את ה”מחיצה” הרפורמית-קומית משרשראות ברזל. *לקיים מנייני תפילה בשבת ב’חדר הנרות’ * להוסיף כיתוב על מבנה האוהל (אוהל… Read more »

    Holier than thou ~ The Evolution of Chasidishkeit
    Guest
    Holier than thou ~ The Evolution of Chasidishkeit

    Why do people alway need to find that the way things have been done for tens, if not hundreds of years, under holy people are now wrong?

    Our Badtz-Rabbonim
    Guest
    Our Badtz-Rabbonim

    whats the position of our Badtz-Rabbonim?Rabbi Braun?

    Lack of tzinut in Chabad
    Guest
    Lack of tzinut in Chabad

    wake up chabad!….get rid of your long, provocative wigs, above the knee skirts, high heels and tight tops and start to look like proper frum bnos yisroel. No wonder chabad is in deep water.

    Just wondering......
    Guest
    Just wondering......

    Why do people tell that when they go to the ohel are bothered for two completely different point of view:

    On the one hand, look at comment’s n° 26, 52, 65, 77, 100, 105, 107, 112, they say that they are disturbed because of themselves LOOKING AT WOMEN AND GIRLS

    On the second hand, look at comment’s n° 44, 54, 72, 86, 103, 108, they say that they feel uncomfortable because men and bochurim LOOKING AT THEM

    ???????

    First time at Ohel
    Guest
    First time at Ohel

    I made a commitment to a rabbi to go and went asap, however it was the shabbos of the conference for schluchim. My perceptions are as follows (I’m an older frum woman) there are many folks who visit the Ohel who do not have any idea of what is expected or what being tznius means. It might be the first time they are writing and submitting a letter. There was a sense of intense chaos when I was there and I went alone and use a cane. Inside where the candles are lit there was barely room to move, to… Read more »

    Gender - designated streets
    Guest
    Gender - designated streets

    So when will crown heights set up streets for men and streets for women?……..
    Woops I have to take Carroll …crown is for women.

    my ten cents,,,
    Guest
    my ten cents,,,

    I am a high school girl who feels a sense of loss in what she feels Lubavitch is. I have never been around before gimmel Tammuz, and I wonder all the time what life must have been for all you before. I wonder, maybe it was much, much easier for you to be tznius because you never know when you would catch the Rebbe’s smile. Or there would be a Farbrengen to go to. So things must have been much easier for you. And then I look at myself, and I have no memories of a Farbrengen. And no, I… Read more »

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