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Wednesday, 23 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 26, 2019

    I’m An Anti-Vaxxer Mom and I Feel Rejected

    A woman who is anti-vaccination wrote an open letter and asked not to be ignored.  Here's what Crown Heights Rabbi Yosef Braun responded. Full Story

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    WOW
    Guest
    WOW

    Rabbi Braun addresses the issues clearly and logically. Blown away by this letter!

    #JeSuisBraun
    Guest
    #JeSuisBraun

    Very well put!

    Thank you Rabbi Braun

    To the author of the article
    Guest
    To the author of the article

    I think Rabbi Braun is just trying to be nice to you. The reality is that we are trying to make to feel alone and ignored. It increases the likelihood that you will cease your selfish habit and start to vaccinate your children.

    Kol Hakavod
    Guest
    Kol Hakavod

    Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Braun for continuing to stand up for what’s right and not giving in to ideas of parents who are placing not only themselves, but everyone else too in danger.

    It’s about time someone stood up and said what has to be said.

    Boo hoo
    Guest
    Boo hoo

    Just like the proverbial, “making a hole under one’s seat, while others are also in the boat”, so too, public health concerns and policy, like vaccinations, are not a singular choice, made by individuals. PH

    My thoughts Exactly
    Guest
    My thoughts Exactly

    Acting according to one’s conscience stops at the point where you affect others.

    Dear Mom,
    Guest
    Dear Mom,

    This is not about feelings.

    Thank you, this is a perfect response
    Guest
    Thank you, this is a perfect response

    Vaccines are one of the most revolutionary and lifesaving scientific discoveries of all time. If you read otherwise on Whatsapp, Facebook, Instagram, or a random site called something like “vaxxisbad.net”, you have been fed misinformation. If your one of your own children had a bad reaction to a vaccine, that means that you definitely need to vaccinate your other children. If a person is allergic or has an autoimmune disorder or chas v’sholom has cancer, or anything else that makes them vulnerable – it is crucial that everyone around them gets vaccinated. Additionally, if you ever read or hear some… Read more »

    Thabk you Rabbi Braun...
    Guest
    Thabk you Rabbi Braun...

    For clarifying once again in an outstanding manner

    Seriously??
    Guest
    Seriously??

    Misinformation in your first sentence! Lifesaving?? Ppl don’t get them to cure the sickness,nor are their lives in danger before or upon receiving them.. And then you expect me to keep on reading
    Wishful thinking.

    Absolutely lifesaving
    Guest
    Absolutely lifesaving

    Vaccines have saved lives, therefore they are lifesaving.

    Thousands of people who would have otherwise ch”v died from now eradicated diseases are still alive.

    Seriously!
    Guest
    Seriously!

    Uhh, yes, look at the statistics of how many children died R”L from vaccine preventable diseases before vaccines came out, and how many die today. ow many people do you know who died of measles? Or polio? Or diphtheria? Or…?

    None? Exactly! Each of those thousands were saved by vaccines!

    If so what are vaccines for?
    Guest
    If so what are vaccines for?

    Prevented medicine is life saving medicine…. why take insulin? Just let your blood glucose sky rocked or plug you into a coma…

    Well
    Guest
    Well

    The only comforting fact with you anti vaxers is that for the most part, you, and not us are the ones getting sick.

    Wow
    Guest
    Wow

    Amazed by the thoughtful response

    Protection...
    Guest
    Protection...

    What many people may have not perceived as yet is that the psak din in effect brings down Divine protection from any possible harm from the vaccine that might have otherwise effected any of their children.

    Boro parker
    Guest
    Boro parker

    I have an honest question. Before the measles vaccination came out in the 1960s, kids got measles and after two weeks it was gone and would never return for a lifetime. With the vaccine it does return. So why is this vaccine so advantages. Why is the liberal politically correct establishment bent out of shape about measles. Where are they when dangerous immoral behavior causes AIDS yet there is a deafening silence.

    Public health
    Guest
    Public health

    If you mean “returning” by resurfacing in the population it is simple the less people vaccinated the more the virus spreads. Measles is airborne and can live in the air up to two hours it is extremly contagious. Because people are refusing to vaccinate the virus is spreading faster. People are “bent out of shape” because the disease is so contagious (i.e airborne). Your statement about AIDS being an “immoral” disease is extremly ignorant and uneducated. People are not “bent out of shape” (also as an aside people have been infected with HIV/AIDS who don’t partake in “immoral behavior”- however… Read more »

    Very true
    Guest
    Very true

    I agree

    Nice.
    Guest
    Nice.

    Good to know that science is liberal and politically correct. I’d rather stand with science than with conspiracy theorists.

    In response
    Guest
    In response

    Sadly, AIDs is not caused by immoral behavior, even the most moral person can contract AIDS. It is caused by an interaction that involved bodily fluids. That can be within a marriage, in a healthcare facility, your child’s school as well as many other scenarios. On to vaccinations returning when immunized. This happens in one of 3 cases: 1) the vaccine was not stored properly. This is why in EVERY health care facility the temp of the fridge is extremely regulated and monitored by healthcare professionals (not someone without a degree). 2) If the vaccination was given in less than… Read more »

    before vaccinations came out
    Guest
    before vaccinations came out

    before vaccination came out there was no choice and it is preferable to get it as a kid then later one. But no-one wants to get measels, and it is definitely not safe to get measles. and lately there were many serious results from measles. even death.

    There are many things that might not kill you...
    Guest
    There are many things that might not kill you...

    …but you would not want to take the chance.

    My baby brother caught whooping cough when he was only 6 weeks old. By the grace of G-d he lived.

    I would not wish on anyone to go through what he went through and what my parents went through.

    Even “survivable” illnesses should be eradicated! You wouldn’t wish on someone to get “low-grade cancer”, even though “survival chances are good”…

    No lifelong immunity
    Guest
    No lifelong immunity

    I was never vaccinated. Neither was my mother. She got whooping cough when she was 16. I got it when I was 8. We passed this immunity onto our newborns in the womb and with breastmilk. There is something to say about the real herd immunity (developed through life long immunity by getting childhood diseases as a child!) proetecting those most vulnerable. Our babies never got whooping cough, though they all got it later, and are immune for life!

    following Beis Din
    Guest
    following Beis Din

    following Beis Din is now liberal? Next thing you’ll tell me that keeping kosher schita, being pro-life, promoting the noahide laws is also liberal?

    Warning! 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22. Standards of res
    Guest
    Warning! 42 U.S. Code § 300aa–22. Standards of res

    Dear Rabbi thank you for answering so clear and beautifully the question.. I’d like to point out a very important law that most people aren’t aware of, it was passed in 1988, No vaccinemanufacturer shall be liable in a civil action for damages arising from a vaccine-related injury or death associated with the administration of a vaccine. Can anyone explain why the vaccine makers should have any obligation to make those vaccines safe when they can NEVER be LIABLE for any damages resulted from vaccines….

    New world order
    Guest
    New world order

    Because vaccine manufacturers are part of the new world order… At one time the whole world believed the Earth was flat. At one time the whole world believed in only four elements. Today most doctors believe in vaccines. But it is not impartial science. Why do doctors study pharcuetical drugs for at least 1.5 years? Why not study preventive care instead? Why is it that medical textbooks are written by doctors currently a CEO or former CEO of pharnacuetical companies? That’s not an impartial opinion to me. I know personally a family that lost their healthy daughter after taking a… Read more »

    Word salad
    Guest
    Word salad

    Vaccines _are_ preventive care, and unlike your examples of a flat earth or four elements, they have been tested and found to work; just compare the death rates from such diseases then and now. (Heck, go to a cemetery and compare the number of child headstones then and now.) The rest of your post is a lot of unhinged conspiracy nonsense, and a perfect example of what Rabbi Braun is saying, that everyone fancies themselves an expert.

    Do compare
    Guest
    Do compare

    Unfortunately, people used to die from something as simple as a splinter. Likewise, people used to die more often from other diseases such as fevers, measles, etc. There have been 0 deaths in America BH’m from Measles in America since 2015 even amongst all of the current outbreaks (which by the way an outbreak is 3 or more people). There are over 100 deaths each year that are proven to be related to vaccines (from VAERS). In order to be reported, the family has to have the strength and resources to stand up in court and have the vaccine company… Read more »

    In response
    Guest
    In response

    This is incorrect. Vaccine companies are obligated to keep an open record of every vaccine interaction and that is public knowledge. Each and every case is followed up, either with the healthcare provider or the patient and their family. If you want a link to the website, let me know

    Inaccurate
    Guest
    Inaccurate

    Unfortunately, that is not the case in the US. The manufacturers actually take no part in the reporting system, which is done by the government and generally reported by doctors. A Harvard study found that fewer than 1% of injuries are likely reported. I would point out however that it does not take huge resources to report, rather just people don’t know to or know how and many doctors don’t either or are uncooperative.

    An ounce of preventiion...
    Guest
    An ounce of preventiion...

    Unfortunately the anti-vaxer parents are in the the same category as those who go out in public or send their children to school sick without considering or checking with a doctor if they could be contagious. Many cases of disisease from mildly discomforting to seriously life threatening to some people stem from this lack of consideration of others. The only legitimate reason for foregoing normative accepted medical precautions is after consultation with a medical professional familiar with the family/individual conditions and history and with the advice of a recognized posuk and taking the necessary pecautions to ensure that the individual… Read more »

    Lobbyist, Greg Mitchell
    Guest
    Lobbyist, Greg Mitchell

    Hello, by now everyone knows who Greg Mitchell is, he had a great role in “the prison reform” that has been passed most recent. He clearly stated to fight for the ANTI VAXERS, he said the following, ” IAM a lobbyist, Iam very familiar with Albany / Washington. I know that lobbying business very well and I know information that you people do NOT know. “yes” the pharmaceutical companies make sure to pass laws in best Favor for them… We are naive by believing that they mean our favor. Dive in a little deeper and you will discover shocking info… Read more »

    good job!
    Guest
    good job!

    Beautifully said. Stand by your Psak and like you said, The Rebbe already gave his psak too.

    Really????
    Guest
    Really????

    You may feel rejected, but you are putting so many folks in danger. You are living among human beings who can contract the disease….not on an Island of poor me.

    Not putting so msny in danger
    Guest
    Not putting so msny in danger

    Out of the 530 or so cases, how many were actually dangerous? More people get sick from alcohol and smoke inhalation. Maybe the Rav should pasken against those.

    Wow
    Guest
    Wow

    What a well written, thought out, clear answer!!

    Unimpressed
    Guest
    Unimpressed

    Did R Braun even read the included letter from Dr. Sears? Seems he didn’t, sadly.

    Not relevant
    Guest
    Not relevant

    How do you know? Why should anyone take the word of a fringe and discredited individual over the consensus of the medical community?

    Menachem
    Guest
    Menachem

    Your comment is an emotional response to what the majority of commenters have described as “well thought out and to the point”.

    But as a naive individual, I looked up “online” – Dr Bob Sears, Wikipedia et al, If you did you wouldn’t be surprised why any Rabbinic authority would take his “minority and dangerous opinions” seriously. Do you homework, and have a little Emunah and Bitachon in Hashem and his Torah.

    There's plenty of info contrary to Sears
    Guest
    There's plenty of info contrary to Sears

    https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/123/1/e164.full.pdf is a good start. The Anti-Vaxxers are so heavily skewed towards anti-vaxx that they cannot even read the material that debunks every claim with real scientific data. If you read Dr. Sears’ book, you clearly see that he relies heavily on his intuition and NOT on real data.

    In response
    Guest
    In response

    Dr Sears has his medical licence on probation.

    The guy's a fraud - and he knows it
    Guest
    The guy's a fraud - and he knows it

    Dr. Sears writes to anti-vax parents: “I also warn them not to share their fears with their neighbors, because if too many people avoid the MMR, we’ll likely see the diseases increase significantly.”
    Does that sound like someone who should be taken seriously?

    Sorry, Madam
    Guest
    Sorry, Madam

    you & your family feel rejected and ignored because you didn’t get the answer you wanted. That’s life… you ask a shailah you may not like the response but you follow it anyway. If you don’t, then don’t complain.

    Very impressed with R. Braun's answer
    Guest
    Very impressed with R. Braun's answer

    Rabbi Braun nailed this one.

    Dear mom
    Guest
    Dear mom

    She should feel ignored! Clearly any scientific evidence isn’t pressuring her enough to actually listen and vaccinate her kids!

    Zero Compassion for this woman
    Guest
    Zero Compassion for this woman

    I am sorry to say that I have zero compassion for this woman. She reminds me of the tzaddik in peltz, who warms themselves while allowing those around them to freeze to death. Vaccinations eradicated serious childhood illnesses. Until parents chose to listen to conspiracy theories, for the most part, children did not get the measles. It is a nasty illness that can have lasting side effects on the children. Children who are not vaccinated should not be allowed in schools or camps as they are the only places where checking who is vaccinated and who is not can take… Read more »

    You might claim the right
    Guest
    You might claim the right

    To vaccinate or not vaccinate your children. This right is being argued, on both sides, in court – regarding the ‘legal’ right; and is being discussed by rabbonim – regarding the halaichic ‘right, or obligation. What you most certainly do not have a ‘right’ to is being meant to feel good about your choice. You’re complaining about ‘feeling rejected’ – well, yes, when you do things that most eoe recognize as against the public good, you might very well fee rejected. You cannot claim any right to be made to feel comfortable even as you assert your – disputedly –… Read more »

    Torah
    Guest
    Torah

    What does Torah say about believing aidim who are threatened with professional sanction and lawsuits vs less professional but honest arbiters? The Rebbe’s letters talk about vaccines that were given one dose at a time and in older babies (since that’s what vaccines were up until the 90s).

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    Thank you for this very clear letter and for calling on people to have humility

    Just Saying
    Guest
    Just Saying

    I believe rabbi Braun – with utmost respect to him – wasn’t making a blanket statement. Each person (and child) is an individual with his or her own circumstances, abilities, and weaknesses. While it may be good public, and even personal policy, for the overwhelming majority of the population to be vaccinated, there are some individuals for whom the danger of side affects from a vaccine are greater than the danger from the disease. Such individual should NOT be vaccinated (this is the standard used by the National Center for Disease Control). It appears to me that if she has… Read more »

    caring parent
    Guest
    caring parent

    fully agree

    Heshy
    Guest
    Heshy

    There are two sides to every story.
    There are rabbonim in both side. Don’t forget that. The drug pharmaceutical companies are highly corrupt. You see their salesman and women all dressed up very fancy cajoling doctors to buy their companies medications. They give doctors gifts from trips to restaurants to get them to stuff our community with drugs.

    kefira, shtussim, and 0 daas torah = this question
    Guest
    kefira, shtussim, and 0 daas torah = this question

    who is she to critisize the rabbonim? we are frum jews and listen to rabbonim therefore. guess what? a rov has a full right to make takkonos for his kehilla! remove your gaava and stop thinking that the rabbonim dont know what they are talking about and that they “misunderstand” you or the situation. they are the ones who are seeing life correctly because they know halacha and see the world through torah eyes. the fact that your humiliation is backed by halacha is your own fault. you decided not to listen to rabbonim and the halacha they paskened. you… Read more »

    In response
    Guest
    In response

    Gifts to doctors have very strict guidelines, both in the amount and who they are benefiting (hint it’s you: the patient), please look it up.

    Heshy
    Guest
    Heshy

    I have spoken to doctors on the gifts they get from the salesmen and women from medical pharmaceutical companies. They travel to florida and other such vacation areas. By having doctors push medications on their patients is how the corrupt drug companies rake in billions. And no one seems to know where the ingredients to these drugs come from. Lots of them are fake. They originate from far flung areas and n change an BMI pharmacy has any idea where the ingredients can me from. We are dealing with a dangerous situation. Not saying anti vaxx are right but they… Read more »

    In response
    Guest
    In response

    If that is truly the case, you should report them to the medical board. That is unethical and a huge red flag

    In response to in respose
    Guest
    In response to in respose

    You think these well dressed suit and tie young salesmen and women are there to just shmuz with the doctor. They come to lobby to him to sell their companies imitation drug copy. Many ingredients come from China and no real way of double check ing their effect.

    Just Saying
    Guest
    Just Saying

    Just because they’re corrupt, doesn’t necessarily mean they’re wrong!

    Do whatever you can!
    Guest
    Do whatever you can!

    Remember Noah. Where would we be if he followed the majority. Remember the Exodus from Egypt. Remember Eliyahu Hanavi. Remember the 24000 students of Rabbi Akiva. Remember the Holocost. I understand you fear of diseaese. but would you give up this practise for the Geula.

    A few random observations
    Guest
    A few random observations

    “for medical issues we should follow the opinion of the majority of doctors” It seems to me that the Rebbe told us to consult a doctor who is a friend, a rofeh yedid, not a majority opinion. ******** I recently asked our family doctor why one year we’re told to take a flu shot and another year we are not told to take a flu shot; one year we are told to take a certain medication or a vitamin and then several years later we are told not to; one year we are told that schmaltz is terrible for us… Read more »

    You might claim the right
    Guest
    You might claim the right

    When you were young and kids got mumps ad measles and germa measles – and some boys who got mumps became sterile, and girls who had german measles were their fertiity affected…don’t minimize it by sayng no big deal. If it were your son who got mumps and became sterile you wouldn’t think it was no big deal

    A doctor not a rabbi
    Guest
    A doctor not a rabbi

    Dear Rabbi Braun; I am very grateful for you letter. You answered the issue of your Halachic ruling with clarity and substance, and with measured tone. When a Rov gives a psak, to me it is no different then when I, a physician make a decision how to treat and with what to treat. When I recommended a certain procedure based on the science that the treatment works, there is the possibility of a complication, or a poor outcome. Nevertheless, if the benefit outweighs the risk, we then prescribe, or suggest the necessary therapy. If the benefit is equal to… Read more »

    Response to the physician
    Guest
    Response to the physician

    Why is it that when it comes to vaccines there isn’t any informed consent like you describe above?
    Parents are not presented with the necessary information giving the benefits vs. risk of each disease ahd vaccine and given the chance to make their own choice. In America the pediatricians push the vaccines saying only “it’s safe and effective” and it stops there.

    Agree with the anti vacxer
    Guest
    Agree with the anti vacxer

    No I didn’t read r Braun’s letter, and yes I do vaccinate my kids but the way people who don’t vaccinate are being treated is so sickening – I definitely support their decision all the way. OBVIOUSLY vaccines HAVE harmed many children unfortunately and therefore every mother should be allowed to make that decision and weigh the risks for herself. Stop expecting some people to endanger their own children in order to ” save” yours. And realize , it’s too new to declare it’s ‘safe’ for everyone. And not everyone is willing to risk it. For you measles might be… Read more »

    Why to bother Rabonim, send your letters to Health
    Guest
    Why to bother Rabonim, send your letters to Health

    Why to take game from a Rov, his answer is good so no one will sue him for his answers later . The CH Beis Din can’t change state Health Laws. If you do believe that vaccines are bad go fight it against the health department and etc, why to address these issues to the someone that is not a doctor or not a scientist. If you believe that is bad for you, ask your doctor and do the best, but you are living in a frum society where majority are kids or pregnant women so pls take into consideration… Read more »

    because
    Guest
    because

    Anti vaxxers want to claim religious exemptions since they can’t get any real medical exemptions. Well, the rabbis aren’t going to give an exemption either.

    Facts anyone?
    Guest
    Facts anyone?

    “Of the cases in 2019, 9% of them have been hospitalized and 3% have had pneumonia. At this time, there have been no deaths.” -from the transcript of the CDC teleconference {Source in links} Now….Let’s break this down (copied from Shannon Barbeau Strayhorn): “In a population of 330 million, 800 or so got measles (they gave a 700 number so I am actually going higher here). 9% went to the hospital, but just for easy math let’s say 10%. So 80 people went to the hospital because they had measles. 80 out of 330 million people. But let’s again say… Read more »

    No facts please!
    Guest
    No facts please!

    The facts have no place in this conversation. Drug companies spend 2x as much as any other lobby in politics in this country. Keep repeating “vaccines are safe and effective” and then it has to be true. It doesn’t matter that according to https://vaers.hhs.gov/ and a Harvard review of the system there were 6,000,000 injuries and 48,000 deaths from vaccines in 2018. It doesn’t matter that the USA, the greatest country, in the world has the highest infant mortality rate in the world. It’s worse than all the industrialized countries combined. It doesn’t matter that 54% of the people in… Read more »

    👋
    Guest
    👋

    ne should not separate oneself from the community, and if, as it appears from your letter, they use it in Chicago, it is good if you do so as well…” 2 Sivan, 5715 (Igros 11:137): “In reply to your query regarding my opinion on vaccinations that are currently given to young children, and how he should act regarding this. With regards to these kinds of matters it says “Al Tifrosh Min Hatzibur/Do not separate from the community”. Therefore, you should act according to that which is practiced by the majority of children who are in your children’s school.” 13 Iyar,… Read more »

    Facts anyone?
    Guest
    Facts anyone?

    “Of the cases in 2019, 9% of them have been hospitalized and 3% have had pneumonia. At this time, there have been no deaths.” -from the transcript of the CDC teleconference {Source in links} Now….Let’s break this down (copied from Shannon Barbeau Strayhorn): “In a population of 330 million, 800 or so got measles (they gave a 700 number so I am actually going higher here). 9% went to the hospital, but just for easy math let’s say 10%. So 80 people went to the hospital because they had measles. 80 out of 330 million people. But let’s again say… Read more »

    To all the non-vaccinators
    Guest
    To all the non-vaccinators

    I have told my children that any of their classmates who are not vaccinated are not welcome in our home. I do not need to have the extra worry in case a married sibling is pregnant and the non-vaccinated friend is carrying around diseases. I feel absolutely no remorse. You made your choice, live with the consequences.

    JUST BECAUSE
    Guest
    JUST BECAUSE

    someone is not vaccinated, doesn’t mean they will suddenly combust into a deadly illness!!! CHVSH!!!!

    anti common sense?
    Guest
    anti common sense?

    a single thoughtless family in one Jewish community infected 8 of their own with measles under the silly notion that vaccines are dangerous. the simple simple truth is the same reasons we wear seat belts, wash our hands with soap, use toilet paper, and wear helmets when we ride bikes. The idea of preventative medicine is the best philosophy medicine has to offer period. if more people made up their own minds instead of being dragged into pseudo science hoaxes, this discussion would never take place and frankly I wouldn’t be so embarrassed to be of the same commu it… Read more »

    stop personally attacking
    Guest
    stop personally attacking

    the funny thing is that they ARE making up their minds…
    it’s harder to go against society and the flow then just do what everyone else is telling you to..
    (and btw i vaccinate)

    very impressed
    Guest
    very impressed

    I read each word and was very impressed. He took the time to answer in a thought out way and walk the individual and klal through some things we may have forgotten.
    May Hashem bless him and the writer to avoid machlokes and bring Ahavas Yisrael between all of us – It is most crucial to realize that we must follow the rabbonim. that is what the torah demands of us. that is our mesiras nefesh.

    Thank You.

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