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Sunday, 7 Heshvan, 5781
  |  October 25, 2020

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Hatzalah Member Sounds Off About Crowded Dancing on Kingston

Veteran Hatzalah member Rabbi Moshe Klein says the independently organized Simcha Beis Hashoeva dancing on Kingston Avenue in Crown Heights "borders on an actual murder." He alerts that a bochur served as chazzan in a local shul while waiting for Covid results which he tested positive for. Full Story, Audio

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Finally!!!
October 8, 2020 7:49 pm

Someone not afraid to call it what it is!
Agree 100%
Thank you for speaking up

והדרתה פני זקן
Reply to  Finally!!!
October 8, 2020 8:29 pm

Thank you for speaking up, our community went through too much and we still have new cases of covid regardless age, young and kids are sick too. Maybe people will listen to all wise and older generation to stop this magefa!

Mashpia
Reply to  Finally!!!
October 9, 2020 1:24 am

This is as central as could be , being controversial, a question to discuss with a mashpia. Dancing bachurim are generally a mashpia- less mob imagining they have some connection to the Rebbe.

Well spoken!
October 8, 2020 7:53 pm

Good to hear some sensible and rational words in a world of chaos and confusion!

Couldn’t agree more
October 8, 2020 7:54 pm

AGREEED!!!!!

Nechama
October 8, 2020 7:55 pm

If you are vulnerable, don’t go. But for all the other teens who have already been together in camp, and for those of us who have had the virus already, it’s a personal decision and risk is extremely low. Risks of bochurim sitting at home all chol hamoed on tech gadgets is more dangerous at this point. The beautiful atmosphere on Kingston for those who are not sick or vulnerable is irreplaceable. If you are at risk, don’t go.
The bochur who was sick and still was a Chazan is wrong. Don’t mix the two.

יש לנו רופאים ורבנים
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 8:26 pm

אם הגברת לא מסכימה עם משהוא שהם אומרים, היא מוזמנת ‘להחכים’ אותם או… לחפש קהילה אחרת.

זה שהרב מרא דאתרא בקולו מנה 4 סיבות מדוע שזה לא יקרה , ועדיין יש לך את החוצפה לא להסכים איתו בפרהסיה, היא היא שורש הרע בקהילתינו!!!!

You are so wrong
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 8:34 pm

People stop caring about others and don’t listen to Rabonim & Doctors!
Yes it’s dangerous, if you don’t have kids that need to go to kindergarten or to the school, pregnant wife or elderly parents- pls isolate yourself for 14 days after last days of Sukos – respect our community!!!Why we need to suffer? Enough is enough!

Not me, us
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 8:37 pm

The more virus going around the community, the more risks to everybody, vulnerable or not. The reality is that there’s no such thing as 100% protection or 100% isolation. People can and should do their utmost to protect themselves, but that only goes so far. By disregarding medical guidelines, you’re not only endangering yourself, but everyone else in this community. Please have some Rachmanus for those that are not as strong as you.

yeah
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 8:42 pm

hopefully you dont have the virus on you when you go visit your elder relatives. the virus can live on your clothes for couple of hours and you may touch things or there are other ways that you can transfer the virus even if you were infected already. dont think that because you had it already there is nothing to worry about. there are people in our community who are sick now, they can not confirm if its a 2nd time getting it, but the people had the same symptoms the first time around. please just wear the mask when… Read more »

Dangerous dancing
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 8:59 pm

The problem is that there could be people dancing there who convey the virus to others, who in turn go home to elderly or otherwise vulnerable people who thereby contract the virus. There are also those in the crowd who aren’t “vulnerable” who nevertheless are severely stricken with the virus. Even if that is just one person, that’s a tragedy.

And the pictures broadcast throughout the world of people dancing in the street, defying state regulations and CDC and doctors’ recommendations, are a chilul HaShem and a Chilul Lubavicth.

Really?
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 9:08 pm

It’s not 2 different things. It’s the attitude. Why are the cases increasing so much in the frum communities vs the rest of the city?

Don't give bad advice
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 10:39 pm

Can you guarantee that there will be no bad long-lasting effects from the virus on the young? Because no-one knows yet. HIV is a virus and came back later as AIDS killing many people

You are wrong
Reply to  Nechama
October 8, 2020 11:56 pm

Thank you rabbi Klein for speaking up. I saw a video on Col of what’s going on Kingston now and I’m in utter shock. I don’t know how the Rabonim or police aren’t stopping it. A chutzpah. People think crown heights is a free for all and people can do what they want. It’s a huge danger and a chillul Lubavitch. I’m embarrassed to see this. And Nechama when something like this is going on it’s a Sacono and the rules are for everyone.

Ummm
Reply to  Nechama
October 9, 2020 12:06 am

That’s a selfish way of behaving. Kol Yisroel Areivim Zeh Lozeh!
The more ppl who are more careful the better it will be for everyone.
You are saying vulnerable should do 100% isolation and the rest should 100% do nothing to prevent spread??? That’s just so so ignorant and selfish

You still don't understand how this virus spreads?
Reply to  Nechama
October 9, 2020 2:03 pm

What you are failing to see is that Bochurim is getting other people sick and could kill that person. Sheesh…still at this point you don’t understand how the virus works. These guys are going to families houses to eat and bringing in the virus. Jews are not just dying their quality of life will be effected for months maybe more from this virus, even the healthy. Please be smarter…we are suppose to be a light unto the nations and this behavior is not showing that.

Chossid
October 8, 2020 7:58 pm

Thank you for speaking up! We can’t remain silent while these occurrences take place. We can’t rely on miracles to protect our community.

How is going to from shimchas torah
October 8, 2020 8:07 pm

Whoever had it or got it shouldn’t make a difference who ever didn’t shouldn’t come it’s anyway different then coming to shul and dancing shimchas torah

Almost
October 8, 2020 8:07 pm

Still haven’t heard a valid explanation as to why this is dangerous? (I agree it’s a Chillul Hashem)
Camps were open, schools were open, these are young people, obviously the elder and vulnerable will not and should not go. How on Earth is this different to anything that has been occuring in our neighborhood?!
And yes, the bochur who was sick is a totally separate thing

#1 he has not been a hatzalah member in years
October 8, 2020 8:15 pm

#2 50% of doctors says masks don’t help. And 100% of doctors will say masks don’t help the way masks are worn with all sides not being sealed. So if he wants to walk into 770 and thinks masks help let him where a mask.. For sure a mask only protects the person wearing it.. Not the others. So he can where a mask, the same way I do. I wear it more for show… So it looks like we are following the rules which are put into place by the dictator government

Masks protect others
Reply to  #1 he has not been a hatzalah member in years
October 10, 2020 12:04 am

The main purpose of the masks is to protect those around you. It catches the droplets you exhale so that they are not dispersed into the air and the person next to you does not inhale them. It also helps protect the individual with the mask, but to a lesser degree.

#1 he has not been a hatzalah member in years
October 8, 2020 8:20 pm

#3 why a rodef… Baruch hashem Nobody in crown heights died from covid in months… Very few hospitalizations .. Same for other frum communities around us… Can’t bring comparisons from before and try to scare people … Very wrong…

Inconsistencies
Reply to  #1 he has not been a hatzalah member in years
October 8, 2020 10:37 pm

I agree with you.
Now a question for COL – why when I “vote” up or down a comment do BOTH numbers often change and not by one count? Please explain the system. Thank you

COLlive Admin
Admin
Reply to  Inconsistencies
October 9, 2020 9:37 am

The vote count is updated periodically however when you vote on a comment it refreshes just that comment count for you on the spot

Berel
October 8, 2020 8:23 pm

Now that we are publishing audio files…Rabbi Braun said on the equally famous whatsapp that to call this murder is also not emes. (By the way, it is shocking to me that we haven’t had anything in writing from … anybody about all this.) The language is “gram degram” and maybe someone will get sick r’l and if someone gets sick r’l then there is some unlikely chance that someone will not get better… To call this like murder is simply outrageous. At this point, this last day…, the only eitza is 1. don’t go and 2. those that went… Read more »

Symptoms later
October 8, 2020 8:24 pm

Symptoms show up a few days after being exposed.
I know people who got the virus more than once.
Where is the ahavas Yisroel? It’s not only about you bochurim having a fun time.
In camp, everyone was isolated. Now you’re exposed to more people. Do you want to be responsible for someone’s life ?

Attention rabbi Klein
October 8, 2020 8:27 pm

If a bochur is willing to participate in being a Chazan, dancing etc… KNOWING there is 1% chance he might get the virus YET his YEARNING is EVEN GREATER- THEN LET HIM! all due respect but WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?! All the bochurim who came in for tishrei or for shnas halemud – KNOWING THERE IS A RISK, DOESNT THAT MEAN ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING TO YOU?! ONE GOAL – OUR REBBE!

Menachem
Reply to  Attention rabbi Klein
October 9, 2020 12:45 pm

1% of a possibility is 100% pekuach nefesh which is doche Kol hatorah kilo. Think about it

Replying...
Reply to  Menachem
October 11, 2020 8:20 pm

I’ll think about it if you’ll think about the alter rebbe spreading yiddishkeit – knowing what that means by going against the government and yet STILL spreading chassidus. Being sentenced in prison and having a gun pointed at him. What does that say? We go on our lives for yiddishkiet! P.s. for a modern day example which is off topic but relevant nonetheless, what people go through for shidduchim is much worse then the virus and yet others support it TERRIBLY! To get married doesn’t have to cost one’s life and yet no one does ANYTHING to save the younger… Read more »

Very easy to have mesiras nefesh
Reply to  Attention rabbi Klein
October 9, 2020 3:54 pm

On other peoples expense
A bochurs chassidishe hargashos should NOT endanger someone else.
People are so self centered and self richeous and arrogant.
NO BOCHUR KNOWS BETTER THAN THE RABBONIM AND DOCTORS.
THE REBBE WOULD NOT APPRECIATE THIS FALSE SENSE OF HISKASHRUS, where bochrim claim to be above the letter of the law.
The Rebbe always stood behind following rabonim and doctors.
Not hefkeirus.
It is apalling.

Sensationalism
October 8, 2020 8:27 pm

You’re conflating things.

By blatantly targeting Jews – the government has turned this into an anti Semitic issue. Health has nothing to do with it at this point. Two separate issues and should be treated as such.
There is no excuse for Deblasio and Coumo’s actions, and we should not be condoning or excusing them in any way.

And please, I have relatives who are active member in hatzolah and completely disagree with the above sentiments. Stop dragging hatzolah and the Rebbe into all this to ‘kasher’ it.

There are 26 new cases in crown heights in 7 days
October 8, 2020 8:27 pm

And a respected member of the community is calling dancing bochrim “bordering on actual murder”
This is 2020 ladies and gentlemen

Ko
October 8, 2020 8:33 pm

Total fear mongering you should be ashamed of yourself

nonsense.
October 8, 2020 8:35 pm

no one has the right to tell a healthy person to not serve Hashem. the job of hatzala is to cure people who are not well. it is not hatzala’s job to tell healthy people they are murderers!!! has v shalom. what a sick thing to say or even think! how can someone write this about another jew?
the flu is finished. it’s everyone’s personal responsibility to protect their own health. stop terrorizing people who are serving Hashem.

Completely wrong
Reply to  nonsense.
October 8, 2020 9:29 pm

V’nishmartem me’od l’nafshosechem. It’s a mitzva to protect your help and the torah encourages listening to medical professionals and the Rabbonim have been clear.

You have no right to endanger the lives of the community.

More nonsense.
Reply to  Completely wrong
October 8, 2020 11:24 pm

Guard yourself from idol worship. Stop worshiping the cult of public health.

hatzalah
Reply to  nonsense.
October 8, 2020 10:13 pm

if anything happens to anyone at any hour of the day who shows up? Hatzalah. so yes, they have a right to tell you to protect yourself.

Saving lives
October 8, 2020 8:36 pm

There are other things as well we should do to save and protect Yiddishe lives as well like ensuring we all have kosher mezuzas. Lacking in this area is also dangerous and harmful bruchnias and bgashmius.

The Bal Shemtov says that when you see a chesoron in someone else, it’s a sign that it exists in you.

Let’s all strive to have Ahavas Yisroel, hidur mitzvahs and learn about moshiach to bring moshiach now!

Rebbe's room
October 8, 2020 8:37 pm

He mentions that he davens in the Rebbe’s room. He forgot to mention that no one wears masks there and most congregants would probably fall in the category of high risk.

Confusing
October 8, 2020 8:41 pm

Why Rabbi Moshe Klein doesn’t walk around and farbreng with the mask? And davening in the Rebbes room in close quarters with other people too. Please explain

Gzeirah sheayin harabim yecholim laamod bah...
October 8, 2020 8:42 pm

There is a concept in Torah that Chachamim don’t make a decree that people won’t be able to follow. Aren’t these guidelines similar? Can we tell everyone to do all these things forever ( so far over 6 months , it can well be a couple of years or more) ? Specially in light of the new statistics that place the survival rate for a 70 yr old at 99.95% For me there seems to be two options: 1) Either as R’ Moshe Klein says the Frum Jews are going insane ( by not listening to the doctors etc etc)… Read more »

Accuracy please
October 8, 2020 8:44 pm

Please be accurate when reporting the beautiful dancing that took place on Kingston. At 5:30 am there were hundreds dancing joyously all together. And before 3:00 am there was room to dance with social distancing if one chose to do so. Stop the politics. Stop the fear mongering. We were together in shul we can be together outside in the street.
Nobody is dying from that Boruch Hashem!
The mageifa with it’s devastating affects is OVER. Now it’s a virus. Time to move on.
Lchaim to long life to everyone
Lchaim to the truth
Am Yisrael chai

I wish you were right..
Reply to  Accuracy please
October 9, 2020 9:46 am

B”H we are not like in March, but I personally know two people on ventilators, one a young mother and another middle aged man. Contrary to what one person is advertising there are AT LEAST 8 patients as of last week with Covid in Maimonides. If we can avoid spreading this to even one person, its like saving a world; every life is precious. So lets just do the basics, wear a mask, stay away from crowds and wash your hands. Simple.
Chag Sameah

Pictures
October 8, 2020 8:46 pm

How about showing pictures of the lively gorgeous dancing that took place

Have people lose their mind ?
October 8, 2020 8:48 pm

What is happening in our community is insane, don’t we have common sense ? Don’t be selfish, don’t think in just yourself, what a shame

AGREE!!!!
October 8, 2020 8:49 pm

You are NOT a chassid if you do not listen to Rabbunim. You are arrogant and selfish!!!!!!!

Moishy
October 8, 2020 8:49 pm

Wow!

So he said. Big deal.

Anonymous
October 8, 2020 8:50 pm

Quercetin and zinc for whoever was exposed or is afraid… Demand hydroxychloriquine (with zinc) to take as prevention if you’re at high risk or you can get from speakwithanMD.com

Save lives!
Zelenko’s protocol

Last edited 16 days ago by Anonymous
Anonymous
Reply to  Anonymous
October 8, 2020 10:35 pm

Who keeps down voting this life saving treatment, and why?
Do you know anyone that took his protocol as prevention and still caught covid?
Or who was treated immediately b4 test results got back and died?
Or anyone you know first hand who suffered complications from the medicine with the dosage he recommends?
Please share.

Last edited 16 days ago by Anonymous
What took so long
October 8, 2020 8:54 pm

His Voicenote was going around already on Monday. If people were really killing each other chas vesholom as he claims, what took so long to publicize it?
We lose trust when politics are mixed into safety issues.
He can calm down now everybody who went to dance on Kingston is fine Boruch Hashem!
A gut moed

Very disappointed we did not come....
October 8, 2020 8:54 pm

Very glad we did not come…
if you really want to be close to the Rebbe MHM…. follow our Rebbeim and respect our cherrished elder chassidim
A GUT YAR MOSHIACH NOW!!!!

Outrageous
October 8, 2020 8:55 pm

What shul is this? Lives are at stake here!

It’s not murder
October 8, 2020 8:55 pm

PEOple can make the choice on their own wether they want to take aa. RIsk. No one I should forced to go.

Dancing
October 8, 2020 8:58 pm

100 percent right.To the answer about the bochurim having nothing what to do do they stay in a bubble and don’t mix with other people.Do they go to stores or 770 where there might be vulnerable people do they have any Ahavas Yisrael.I didn’t see too many bochurim wearing masks is that too much to ask for.We Need and Want Moshiach Now.

Closing the streets
October 8, 2020 9:09 pm

Why did they close off the streets for this?

Agree
October 8, 2020 9:09 pm

He is 100% right. If you have any symptoms the most important thing is to stay home until and after it’s confirmed positive. Doesn’t matter Shul, Yom tov, etc. It matters to save the life of fellow Jews

Rabonim
October 8, 2020 9:10 pm

Why aren’t the Rabonim and community leaders taking a stand on sakonas nefoshos?

Thank you, Rabbi Klein
October 8, 2020 9:12 pm

Thank you for speaking up for the safety and well-being of all of us! It’s well known that individuals can spread COVID-19 without symptoms or before they feel ill. And many people with whom they come in contact are high-risk or might spread it to someone who is! Disregard for everyone’s health and safety In the name of personal preferences or celebration is inexcusable.

david
Reply to  Thank you, Rabbi Klein
October 9, 2020 1:31 am

these
people
doing
cilul
hashem
chilul
halacha
chilul
chabad
rodffim/murderers

Good luck
October 8, 2020 9:17 pm

Good luck. Glad I live in a place where precautions are take well

Shame
October 8, 2020 9:19 pm

This is a rant and nothing more. As per the NYC DOH deaths are down although a slight increase in positive cases. We have a much better handle on the virus. There are no hospitalizations in our community. Bh I don’t see any names posted for tehilims etc.. stop the fear mongering!

Stop driving.
October 8, 2020 10:19 pm

The chance of killing someone in a car crash is 6 times more likely then a Symptomatic person causing an elderly person to die so all you sakanas nefashos people please give in your most dangerous weapon known as a car.

Spoke to My Son
October 8, 2020 11:06 pm

I spoke to my son about this – he said something insightful. If there is any updates of anything you want the Chasidishe Bochurim to know – putting online, WhatsApp or social media will not get to them. A huge portion don’t have smart phones (these boys exists) They finish their Sukkah farbrengen and see streets closed and music – so of course they start dancing- like the Rebbe instructed. If there is any message you want to relay to the bochurim- signs in 770, announcements – really old fashion way….. These are excellent boys that want 5o do whays… Read more »

Dont understand...
October 8, 2020 11:13 pm

So let us close the schools and flights as well if it is really pikuach nefesh.

Please don’t be picky.

conflation
October 9, 2020 1:21 am

In heated topics things get conflated. Fact is local government has a prohibition on certain behavior (you must wear a mask when near someone of public within 6 feet). Fact is this prohibition, according to the government, includes safety, health, sickness, death ramifications. Fact is, there’s no halacha that would be transgressed by wearing a mask. So a jew who doesn’t wear a mask near another person is violating a halacha of dina dimlachusa, and committing chilul hashem. It doesn’t matter whether you agree with masks or had the virus or any other reason. Debating the virtue or uselessness of… Read more »

some food for thought
October 9, 2020 2:48 am

We all know the story of Rabbi Akiva and his students, who passed away between Pesach and Lag Baomer due to not having respect for each other. How did they disrespect each other? When one of them got sick, he didn’t stay home and instead went and got his friend sick, until they all passed away.

In this trying time, the story of Rabbi Akiva and his students teaches us a powerful lesson of what not to do

Less than the flu
October 9, 2020 5:34 am

Are you ok with masks and social distancing forever? Viruses don’t go away. There will always be someone carrying the virus, vaccine or not. Put your pizza down, cut back on the cholent, and live a healthy lifestyle. Maybe rabbonim should enact mandatory exercise instead of masks? That’s what frum communities need.
Coronation Now

What is the difference between davening in shuls
October 9, 2020 6:00 am

And specially 770 in the past few months without a mask, to this simchas beis hashoeiva dancing?

Hopefully this week of dancing that is bringing so many voices against, will show us in 2 weeks that there is really nothing to be afraid anymore from the covid and we can go back to normal life.

Menachem
October 9, 2020 8:03 am

Just listened to Rabbi M Klien Sh’

I need to be honest, for years there have been a disagreement and grief between us.
But today, I teared up hearing what he said. I absolutely agree with him. He is 100% right. Thank you Rabbi Klein for these words.
מחל לך מחל לך מחל לך.
א גוטין קוויטל א גוט געבענשטע יאר מיט א סאך געזונט

Every Jew is holy
October 9, 2020 4:08 pm

There are very polar opinions on this subject. The lies have created division being expressed. Find the good in every Jew. It might be that what some believe is not true. Every Jew is holy. Now is a time of bitochon and simcha. Simcha poritz geder. Moshiach Now!

For a neighborhood full of Jews...
October 12, 2020 10:03 pm

…who are supposed to be smart, there are a whole lot of idiots with mind numbingly dumb justifications for dangerous behaviors.

Josh

Anonymous
Reply to  For a neighborhood full of Jews...
October 15, 2020 12:00 pm

We don’t care what you think of us Josh. We are taught to think for ourselves and question inconsistencies. And there have been plenty with regards to the city’s response to covid. Calling people names does a sorry job at changing minds or debunking claims. Can you do better?

Last edited 9 days ago by Anonymous
Moshe Greenberg
October 15, 2020 11:17 pm

How would we all be conducting ourselves during this Pandemic if the Rebbe זי”ע was still living

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