Create Account
ב"ה
Friday, 19 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 24, 2019

    Guy Bashing Isn’t the Answer

    From the COLlive Inbox: "Recently there's been a growing trend to blame the guys' side in this game no one enjoys." Full Story

    Rebbe Gave Bochur Silver Dollars

    Next Story »

    Festive Chanukah Bash at OK

    66
    Opinions and Comments

    Please Login to comment
    avatar
      Subscribe  
    newest oldest most voted
    Notify of
    Risa Shapiro
    Guest
    Risa Shapiro

    I think what Mrs Toby Lieder’s goal of her article was to ask the question If everybody wants the same good qualities in a Shidduch then why isn’t everyone getting engaged? I think, her point was that basically everyone wants the same good things. There’s “something” stopping shidduchim from happening That was her point That what is that “something” holding everyone back if they all want the same good things? I personally think it’s the mothers that are too picky and have too many filters and requirements that are disturbing the young ones from even dating each other! If only… Read more »

    Agreed 100%
    Guest
    Agreed 100%

    I’m a bocher, and dating completely drained me. Even when a shidduch doesn’t work, when both sides are menshlech and caring, if for technical reason’s it just can’t go, irrelevant if the bocher is the one to say no, it hurts the bocher also, not just the girl, as the bocher has also invested tremendous energy into it. And aderaba, if the bocher is sensitive, the fact that the other person has gotten hurt, also pains him, as he feels bad to have hurt someone in the process. (al derech – vayire yakov meod, vayetzer lo – he was afraid… Read more »

    Thank you.
    Guest
    Thank you.

    At the time when the article you referred to was posted, my response was exactly that which you have written.

    The one thing I would have written differently is, instead of “blaming guys doesn’t help” I would’ve emphasized “it makes things worse”.

    Girls, look hard into the mirror.
    כל נגעים אדם רואה חוץ מנגעי עצמו

    A single girl
    Guest
    A single girl

    Right there with you and agree with you
    No good can come of it. I do believe that if we all were more open minded things would be smoother and less painful

    I love these articles!
    Guest
    I love these articles!

    Comments, start coming in! We love you!!

    Number 2
    Guest
    Number 2

    Is for sure a bochur! No faking there with “aderabe” and sources etc. What is a hailike bochur like you doing on the Internet? 😉

    haha i love bochurlingo
    Guest
    haha i love bochurlingo

    Go watch manis friedmans shiurim, go daven and learn, if you’re at that stage in ur life, figure out how to make a parnassah and keep on having the bitachon ur having. theres no CRISIS. Theres just you, your soulmate, and Hashem.
    Ive been in shidduchim for two years now and seriously, after your third guy you learn to not let yourself “get hurt”.

    COL & current n future authors:
    Guest
    COL & current n future authors:

    From advertising we learn that everything we see [read] can affect us. The hint of the language we use can make the difference between advertising positive wording and phrases, not the opposite. Also when the message opposes the language {as in the title above} wording and phraseology promotes, even creates concepts;
    livens them, if you will.

    Create good language.

    Good Week.

    Double Thank You!
    Guest
    Double Thank You!

    Thank you Mr Anonymous for putting words to what we Bocherim feel. When the above-mentioned article titled “What Single Women Look For” had posted, my sentiments from the article had been nothing short of disheartening, feeling myself as a bocher being judged quite unfavorably, and in fact, attacked; with the veiled yet implied intimation that the bocherim are the only ones who ought to get their priorities straight from their current misplaced state, whilst the girls have themselves and their values all figured out, and their principles in order. Instead of all the finger-pointing, usually done by people who are… Read more »

    I believe it is all about respect
    Guest
    I believe it is all about respect

    If each side has respect for the other and displays this respect, in the way they date, in the way they communicate and the places they go, everyone will be better off. I have heard of guys taking girls to downright dumps! I have heard of girls dating with dirty shoes, and dirty hair. I have known of both guys and girls being so cynical and burnt out with dating that they just stop trying their best, to reveal their best. Dating can be frustrating, nerve wracking and stressful.However, If each side puts their best self forward, giving each prospect… Read more »

    Agreeing the mothers are. A BIG part of the problem....
    Guest
    Agreeing the mothers are. A BIG part of the problem....

    Many mothers have their own agenda regArding what they’re looking for on behalf of their son…. Agreed, having diversity In levels of yiddishkeit among the siblings is NOT a reflection on upbringing or the child being suggested for a Shidduch (we need look no farther than our Torah shel Emes to wonder where Yaacov w/b be had he been judged by his sibling, Esav!)

    Not so simple
    Guest
    Not so simple

    What I have found and observed(although not a scientific project)is that girls are still willing to overlook certain things if the guy has good qualities.However, regardless of how wonderful a girl is,heaven forbid her wt is a bit up or she is not quite the beauty he was expecting…but no one-not a single bochur is willing to come clean. He could have a perfectly great date but somehow his ideal image did not present to his expectation and he will find an easy solution-oh it’s just not a match-no reason given.You will not have a guy brave enough to say… Read more »

    True story about a mother
    Guest
    True story about a mother

    An extremely wealthy mother, with an older (very modern) daughter, felt that no boy was worthy of her only girl. At age 27, the girl was interested in the branch manager of a bank, and the mother said, “Oh, he’s not an investment banker?” and the girl dropped the idea. Finally the mother ended up in therapy for some reason. Voila — a year later the girl was engaged: to a sweet, nice guy with a regular 9-5 job, who treats the girl with great kindness. (Previously, the girl had had a pattern of being involved with several guys who… Read more »

    Simmon Avos
    Guest
    Simmon Avos

    Imagine if a mother heard from a Shadchan about a young man whose father is a Rebbe and a Gadol HaDor, and his brother is following in the Rebbes footstep to be the next Gadol HaDor, and there are no other siblings, and the father’s father was also a Rebbe and Gadol HaDor. If the mother would jump at it, and tell the Shadchan “Yes!”, then she just got a Shidduch with Esav! Now imagine further if the Shadchan came up with proposal for a guy, about an aidel woman with trememdous qualities, but is a gioress and was married… Read more »

    Honesty needed
    Guest
    Honesty needed

    ‘Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive’. Walter Scott.

    mothers step back
    Guest
    mothers step back

    my son was ready to get married, and I did some reasonable research on the girl, he looked at the picture, and said ok..they went out, and he liked her, and before getting engaged we met her and was shocked that she did not look like her picture and was otherwise not so attractive. we we ready to call off the engagement, but my son insisted that he saw really good things in her, and reluctantly we proceeded with the engagment and marriage. post script, they are married four years with two kids, and couldnt be happier or more in… Read more »

    hhaaaaaa
    Guest
    hhaaaaaa

    Oh the bochur hurts when the girl gets hurt-please let me get the violin to play!!!!!Yes, boys are superficial and immature.Grow up and man up already.

    Guys are more feminine these days
    Guest
    Guys are more feminine these days

    So I’ve been involved in making shiddichim got many years now, and what I see has been a serious issue in recent years is that guys are more feminine and girls more masculine. This poses a great problem since girls say “they want a man” and boys say “they want a woman” so both sides are disappointed since both genders are not what they used to be. I think girls have to start being realistic and accepting the fact that their husband is not the man their father or grandfather is: there harder to come by these days. I think… Read more »

    A Meaningful life!
    Guest
    A Meaningful life!

    Stop the blaming on either side and take responsibility for your action, stop the victim mentality,
    it could be challenging and no one likes when things don’t allways go there way, just get used to it thats life.

    Bring some meaning purpose in to your life don’t wait for this person that’s gona save you, do some thing meaningful enjoy your life as is and more blessing will come.

    Remember marriage does not save a person it enhances who they are.(if done right)

    Mendel

    @17
    Guest
    @17

    Sexism is also when women lambast, stereotype and paint all men with a wide brush. It’s a two way street darling

    GIRLS are at FAULT!
    Guest
    GIRLS are at FAULT!

    Girls have no toichen.
    Girls are superficial.
    Girls have no derher.
    Girls aren’t really chassidish
    and the list goes on

    Totally a guy problem
    Guest
    Totally a guy problem

    It’s totally a guy problem. If the ratio of guys to girls 1 to 7 guy to girl, why is it that there are so many single 27-35 year old guys? What’s their excuse? Many of them are supposedly great guys. I’ve met them. Many of them aren’t. Anymore at least. They become lame as if someone sucked the air out of them. The only possible reason I can think of is this: g-d said about Adam ‘it’s not good for man to be alone’ and I don’t think it was meant in the physical sense. I believe it’s more… Read more »

    Single girl to Number 17
    Guest
    Single girl to Number 17

    U are right.. Author thank you for sharing

    Chabad has failed the boys! Period
    Guest
    Chabad has failed the boys! Period

    Say it, it’s the truth and everyone knows it. The chinuch the bochrim have received from the broken educational system, has failed them no end. They are totally lost regarding parnossa, way behind the eight ball when it comes to applying to school and have no hadrocha and guidance from their parents and mashpiyim. They are maamish lost and have no idea how to be men and provide for a wife and family and simply do not have the maturity and sophistication that the girls have.

    Entire system needs an overhaul urgently.

    @21
    Guest
    @21

    Pathetic. It’s not appropriate even as a joke.

    single female
    Guest
    single female

    dating can be extremely draining, emotionly and physically. If only parents would be less picky, who cares if you’ve got all the money in the world, can money buy a young couple true happiness can it buy them real genuine kindness amongst one another can it buy them shalom bayis?! Saying no to an offer because family isn’t blessed with parnassah is such a shame! Shame on people who prevent beautiful shidduchim from happening due to lack of money, set ur priorities straight, is it money or true nachas that you want as your end result? !

    to #21
    Guest
    to #21

    that is pretty insulting. think before you write.

    i have a confession to make
    Guest
    i have a confession to make

    i didnt like the last guy i dated.
    i was told to go out a second time.
    im considered physically attractive.
    i know when i dress up i can sell myself well.
    think i chose to dress up for this boy?
    absolutely not.
    good riddance.

    #16
    Guest
    #16

    I’m really glad you wrote your story for all to see how some parents can be way off with the needs of their kids. Your son liked the girl and you were trying to get him to call it off because she wasn’t this perfect looking girl. Parents, ask this very simple question is the girl or bocher a good person? will they make my kid happy? If the answer is yes, give them your blessing and move on. you’re not the one getting married your kids are.

    @17
    Guest
    @17

    I’m a married man who dated for 13 years. I read every comment and only your comment made me feel I need to comment.

    Not one comment above came close to your horrible post. Please stop dating if your single and don’t hurt any guy with your hate and harshness. Go see a therapist and learn how to be positive and ready for marriage.

    I’m writing this out of caring for you and want you to one day be happy but your from from that point now.

    Wishing you luck and success

    ****** Bottom Line Is ******
    Guest
    ****** Bottom Line Is ******

    If we followed the Toirahdiker style,
    the good ol fashioned what worked for our bubbys and zaidys style we would be alot more better off today
    Like it says in the good books
    “TREAT HER LIKE A QUEEN SHE WILL TREAT YOU LIKE A KING”
    What happened to good ol fashioned values?
    I remember one relative that had 10 kids to marry off said
    I look for just 2 things for my kids for shidduchim
    kindness and yiras shomayim
    And she did very well
    lets go back to the basics

    To #26
    Guest
    To #26

    Thank you for publishing , Parents read this, well written and straight to the target! WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITIES IN LIFE! Well said!

    to #30
    Guest
    to #30

    You dated for 13 yrs and found ur match.ok very good.Now what exactly did u read into #17 that is so repulsive to you?Did it perhaps strike a chord?Were you one of those serial daters?Do you honestly think a guy who dumps a girl is hurting for her?Are you that naive or gullible or just had a lot of experience doing that to others?Maybe you are the one who needed therapy to sort out your personal issues and demons.There was no hate in that message.

    To #17 and #23
    Guest
    To #17 and #23

    This is the author of #2. I am proud to say that I am a chassidishe bocher, and number one priority of being a chassidishe bocher is being sensitive, being a mensch, and feeling for another person. I don’t have a mokor, but I remember once hearing that the Rebbe said, that the Even Habochen (determining factor) of a person’s chassidishkeit is their sholom bayis. I.e. if they can be a mensch. And this starts already when a person is dating, that they take into account the feelings of the person they are dating, and are sensitive to them. Maybe… Read more »

    To #6
    Guest
    To #6

    I’m on the internet to defend the bocherim, and to make it clear that there are sensitive and mature bocherim out there, who look out for others and are menschlech, when a situation doesn’t work.

    Look in the mirror if you got one  ♡
    Guest
    Look in the mirror if you got one ♡

    The only way the so called “crisis” can be fixed,is when everyone starts fixing themselves instead of others.

    I Beg all the commenters
    Guest
    I Beg all the commenters

    Please keep your Posts to no more then 5 lines, It is late, I am tired I still have to learn 3 perokim.
    Thanks ever so much

    #24 woohoo so so true
    Guest
    #24 woohoo so so true

    Well said! Chabad has totally failed the Bochurims education system. I say it becasue I went through it and let me tell you, it gets you know where, the amount of time you waste in Yeshiva not becasue you aren’t interested or your busy having a good time doing other stuff, its becasue the system of sitting in a ZAL not knowing how to learn on your own with zero help, and zero interest in your teacher trying to help you learn is what happens in about every Yeshiva with about 35-49% of the Yeshiva bochrim, and that’s including the… Read more »

    Love, Respect, Unity.
    Guest
    Love, Respect, Unity.

    B”h, Chabad is in a amazing place, and hands up for everyone that are posting about working on thy self 🙂 what i men’t about chabad was that we’re learning how to figure things out are selfs [collectively and individually] so wheres the crisis? i feel it’s a lot by bocherim and girls that from a early teenage age how we’re “going through the system”. i as a bocher can say my side. you come into misivta and then zal and the “in” thing is not to be “CHASIDISH” and why for the most part a lot [not all] of… Read more »

    A tale of two sisters
    Guest
    A tale of two sisters

    I was getting older , dated all types , married the one that was kind and had the right haskofa , did the system , but dirt poor and baggage. My sister married the guy of my dreams , handsome , wealthy family , athletic , frum , kind etc. Fast forward 15 years , my life is hard ,hers a lot easier , we have struggled parnosa , moved around a lot ,with alot of nisyoniois … Her life easier , house , family business , vacations etc . Who’s happier ? Exactly the same . We talk every… Read more »

    To #40
    Guest
    To #40

    Awesome comment, thank you for the perspective. And Kol hacavod for having such a close relationship with your sis. I’m guessing it effects your shalom bay is positively as well.

    To #40
    Guest
    To #40

    The article was worth it just for your comment

    #40
    Guest
    #40

    Very real ! Authentic post!
    You can be happy if you decide to be it
    Everything is in your mindset You need a lot of learning clarity and energy to transcend and transform your environment

    to #27
    Guest
    to #27

    The reason this comment bothers you so much, and it would not bother you if the word girls was replaced by boys, is very simple. We all know the basic code of society. Men are to be accountable. Women are not. Why? Because Men have more emotional strength to take pain compared to women. This is a lie, and it hurts every man. Bochrim, men are VERY emotional. We are just as well experts at hiding it, because we know we will be judged as unworthy if we expose our nature. The truth is, when it comes to marriage, men… Read more »

    @17 and 33 (probably the same person )
    Guest
    @17 and 33 (probably the same person )

    I would be glad to talk on the phone instead of people posting a few lines and not giving thier names.

    I’m s real person with real life experiences and more then glad to talk on the phone. I’m not and in sure you are not the person it comes across in our short writing post.

    And anyone else who would benefit from talking to someone who dated seriously and continuously for 13 years.

    718-207-1684

    To #21
    Guest
    To #21

    We read chasidisher derher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    @ 45 Missed my phone number above
    Guest
    @ 45 Missed my phone number above

    718-207-1684

    @ 17
    Guest
    @ 17

    Text me as you did not leave a phone number

    718-207-1684

    the ikkar
    Guest
    the ikkar

    STOP POINTING FINGERS!
    both sides have very high expectations, and you can’t expect to find the perfect match that meets all your dream expectations. marriage is about building a life together, and giving to your spouse what they don’t have, complimenting eachothers maalos and chesronos. you need to keep in mind it’s nice to be chasidish, but it’s more chasidish to be nice. at the end of the day, people just want to marry a mentch.

    it's the education system's fault
    Guest
    it's the education system's fault

    why are our girls and bochurim not learning proper life skills? of course bochurim aren’t financially stable, they have no idea how to use money because all they know how to do is learn gemara. they haven’t had experience in the real world yet, they’re in a sheltered yeshiva enviroment. how do you expect a boy to know what to expect in a girl if he’s never seen one before and has to avoid them in the supermarket. instead of avoiding the world, we need to learn to deal with it.

    To the author:
    Guest
    To the author:

    I think from some of these comments, it’s pretty clear where the problem lies. PEOPLE: There are crazy boys, there are crazy girls. They just need to find each other in the comment section on this site. Seems to be working great so far. Call me.

    From #40
    Guest
    From #40

    Thank you for the lovely responses to my comment . To number 41 , indeed it does add to my sholom bayis. I would like to add that I went into marriage using my head , ( It annoys me to hear people turning someone good down because their heart isn’t in it… That comes AFTER marraige !) BH I used my head because the way my life has turned out , my ‘ wish list ‘ wouldn’t have helped me anything! my husband is my best friend, my security ,we laugh through all our challenges and we DECIDED to… Read more »

    FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!
    Guest
    FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!!

    There is a fascinating and informative letter from the Rebbe which is on practical dating advice. The rebbe says: 1) One of the most important qualities is that a person should be trustworthy- so he can be relied upon in keeping the promises of establishing a binyei adei ad. 2) It’s impossible to know a person until you get married; however, “it is possible to find out about his family background, his upbringing and education, and his general conduct in the daily life.” 3) The Rebbe encouraged people looking for a Shidduch to be careful about giving a bit of… Read more »

    #50
    Guest
    #50

    Sure, its easy to blame the education system, the parents, the bochurim, the girls, but it wont help anyone. Everyone just needs to grow up and get a life! Like #21. You are most probably not a self-hating girl, so assuming you’re a boy, how would you know?! How could you say that? If you know every girl that well, it’s you who has the problem!

    # 34
    Guest
    # 34

    You’re amazing! I’m proud that you’re part of Chabad.
    Keep it up:)!

    # 39
    Guest
    # 39

    You go! thank you for bringing such a positive twist!

    Hey guysss
    Guest
    Hey guysss

    Do u have a shidduch for me instead of wasting ur time ?

    je suis golem!
    Guest
    je suis golem!

    I am married about 10 years, and from time to time i think about the months i spent dating, this was definitely the most vulnerable time of my life. I had no idea how i was going to feed a family as i was just a Golem out of yeshiva my date was working already for 3 years, i was also immature my date was mature, i had no world experience my date seemed more worldly and balanced. I WAS YOUR GOLEM. Today, i work 12-18 hours a day and make a very comfortable living b”h my wife does not… Read more »

    look #30
    Guest
    look #30

    It is not that serious. Don’t read into everything and take it so seriously.Everyone responds based on what they have experienced and certainly those who are rejected on both sides will have some scars and a wounded ego.However, no one is going to be tortured by letting someone go.If they have to let a person go for various reasons, they will not lose sleep because they have hurt someone.Everyone is going to get hurt in life in some way by someone.The point is to move on and not think this was the only one for me-men and women are like… Read more »

    Real life
    Guest
    Real life

    I agree with the author that bashing the guys doesn’t help the situation. At the same time, I believe it must be stressed that education is the key, and parents must be willing to accept the fact that if their precious yingele or maidele is old enough to get married then they perforce are ready to make their own decisions with regards to said marriage. I feel Frum young adults are under way too much pressure from parents and peers about when and to whom to get married. People should be allowed to say no to a shidduch suggestion if… Read more »

    To #52
    Guest
    To #52

    Touching and reassuring! Thank you.

    to #6
    Guest
    to #6

    maybe he’s not on the “internet” with all that the word connotes; maybe he’s reading col as a way of unwinding without hanging out at 2;00 a.m. smoking cigarettes.
    you, commenter #6, come across as one heck of a derogatory person. BTW, if you judge being on the site so offensive, what are YOU doing on it?

    To #62
    Guest
    To #62

    wowwwwww
    it was obvious that #6 was joking and it actually made me laugh to read it.

    #46
    Guest
    #46

    which school do you go to that you read chassidishe derher?
    I think its not enough to read it you should also be tested on it. like once a month.. particularly. derheren the derher. 🙂 😉
    Good job for pointing out that very crucial point.
    Some girls do read chassidishe derher so it’s not nice to make such dramatic statements, #46.

     YESHIVA- BEST PREP FOR MARRIAGE
    Guest
    YESHIVA- BEST PREP FOR MARRIAGE

    Way to go #58 and others!…Here’s a yeshiva bochur, who did what he was supposed to prepare himself for marriage-sit and learn Torah- increasingly heighten his Yiras Shomayim, Learning and Middos Tovos to be moral, wise and caring husband, not to mention securing Hashem’s brochos as payback in this world for his family. Suddenly, he’s the wealthy and worldly traveler paying a mortgage on his home B”H. There is no way that learning Torah can adversely affect a person or his future. Comments against “the system”, the Rebbeim’s system, are ignorant/unwise at best and playing with fire at worst…

    Number 65
    Guest
    Number 65

    Same here … Doing great BH BECAUSE of the system!!

    X