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Divorce is a Double Sided Mess

Every Agunah is our sister and every man going through a divorce is our brother too, writes a Crown Heights father. Full Story

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civil divorce a joke
April 3, 2016 9:31 pm

one should first sort out the Get because that is the real thing and it is so strict according to the Torah for the woman to be the loyal marriage partner! nothing will happen civilly, if there is infidelity.

Almost perfect
April 1, 2015 8:16 pm

As a child of a divorced couple, I can tell you, the worst husband can be a pretty good father, and far better than no father at all.

But I don’t think this takes away from the agunah issue.

In fact, the effort to take kids away from their fathers is as evil as manipulating and hurting an ex-wife by withholding a get.

They are two related, but different issues.

to number 4
March 29, 2015 8:19 pm

What about the countless cases where a woman makes up that the husband is abusive just so he won’t get to see his children?

If the husband doesn’t give the get, immediately everyone says he’s in the wrong,l. Maybe he told the wife that he will give it if he’s allowed to see the kids, or maybe the wife is abusive to the kids, so he wants custody. Yes, often the men are in the wrong, but often the woman is and often it’s both.

Love of our Children
March 29, 2015 6:10 am

At the end of the day, the love of our children has got to prevail,

Slogans and Marches
March 28, 2015 9:00 pm

From this balance article it is clear that even thought Every Agunah Is Our Sister, may be a true statement. Every woman who claims to be an agunah does not necessarily deserve our support. The slogan There Is Only One Side is also not true. When another march is proposed – the organizers need to give a clear goal as to what they want to accomplish and give the community a reason why they think a march is the best way to accomplish their goal. The goal of raising awareness for agunahs is not sufficient – because as we see… Read more »

Yep.
March 28, 2015 7:16 pm

My mother is the same. Makes sure that no one but her gets close enough to gain the confidence of the kids. Told my father not to call, forbade us from answering the phone, wouldn’t let us travel to visit him. And all the while telling us how he doesn’t care etc. When I got engaged she saw that my siblings were starting to get closer to my husband, then she made up some excuse of us being bad role models and not chassidish/frum enough and forbade my husband from talking to them. He called and was told he couldn’t… Read more »

Reply to 92
March 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Unless and until there is hard proof that a parent is a danger to his kids, the default should be joint custody. FULL STOP!!!!

bottom line
March 27, 2015 4:54 pm

there is so much suffering of late!! Really time for Moshiach already…

Learn Torah Together
March 27, 2015 2:56 pm

The key to Shalom Bayis is people learning to understand – and bring into their relationship – such things as:

Respect
Appreciation
Cooperation
Communication
Affection (intimate as well non-intimate)
Loyalty
Truthfulness
Forgiveness
Emotional Support

The Rebbe advises: To enhance Shalom Bayis the husband and wife to have a Shiur in Torah together.

To 86
March 27, 2015 2:21 pm

You are 100% right! Nobody ever knows what really went on in a marriage and any or all allegations are false unless they have proof of its legitimacy. It’s nobody’s business to find out what happened or didn’t besides for the Bais din or courts.
Our sole obligation as a community is to help the children transition. “It takes a village…”

To 74
March 27, 2015 11:52 am

Someone who claims she was beaten by ex and he molests children, if false, why would the husband want to reward her monstrous behavior with a get? Reward her behavior???? A get is not a reward given by a superior to an inferior!! A get is a halachic procedure to end a Jewish marriage!! The agunah situation will not be resolved until people can understand that using an imbalance of power is abuse!!! It’s just male entitlement at play. Just because a man is afraid of how he may fare in a divorce settlement does not change the institution of… Read more »

"Custody"
March 27, 2015 11:01 am

I am not sure why you put custody in quotations. Sometimes one of the parents needs to have supervised visits. Rabbonim have been proven to not understand abuse and that’s why we need the secular courts to navigate through each individual case with evaluations done by phycologists that can really get down to the truths and figure out what is really in the best interests of the child.

Good advice until it's your son or brother....
March 27, 2015 9:23 am

Being a “mensch” and giving the get “upfront and unconditionally” sounds like righteous advice until it’s your son or brother getting divorced who has a spiteful, vengeful, and abusive soon to be ex who is threatening to alienate him from the kids and milk him for everything he’s worth. We’ll see how quickly you will give such holier than thou advice when it will be YOUR grandchildren or nieces/nephews you will lose contact with because of a spiteful daughter-in-law or sister-in-law….

"Custody"
March 27, 2015 6:15 am

Custody does NOT have to be “worked out” in secular court, BD, or else where. It is a G-d given right for a father (and mother) to be a parent to his kids in EVERY sense of the word. If the get shouldn’t be used as a “bargaining chip” and given right away, kal ve’ chomer that the kids should not be used as bargaining chips and joint custody should be the default (barring extenuating circumstances to be examined on a case by case basis). NEITHER parent should have to worry for a single minute whether or not he/she will… Read more »

To #73
March 27, 2015 2:59 am

Hashem is there guiding you. Find a therapist. Find a mashpia with intelligence and warmth. They’ll help you find your way forward with the right attitude. It’s Nissan – make the leap!

thank u
March 27, 2015 12:50 am

Very well written! Thank u for posting!

number 25
March 27, 2015 12:46 am

You are a joke !!!!!!!! I can’t stop laughing. She wants to get divorced and he is deeply in love ???? His not in love his hallucinating! !!

IT MAY TAKE 10 20 30..... YEARS....
March 27, 2015 12:46 am

Well written article! Now here`s the main point: everyone stop judging, you`l never know the true story in any situation,NOBODY KNOWS WHATS DOING IN YOUR “KISHKIS” & you`ll never know whats doing in a divorce (& prior to it in the marriage),let`s get that straight,it`ll take some people 10 yrs 20 30 etc,till they realize that we all know NOTHING about others life! it`s also not our business! STOP THE GOSSIP `And let`s remember the wisdom of old:BIG people talk about .ideas,Middle people talk about things,SMALL PEOPLE TALK ABOUT PEOPLE…..

to 74
March 26, 2015 11:56 pm

Have I ever heard of false allegations? Yes, they are possible. a)But how does anyone else deal with it, e.g. non-Jews, or those not seeking a Get? That’s exactly how a Frum man should deal with it as well. The rest of the world does not use a male privilege they have, and neither should a Frum man. To reiterate my point: The Get is not a Halachic invention created to protect a man from false allegations or an unfavorable divorce settlement!!! The Get has ONE PURPOSE, and one purpose only: The formal Halachic termination of a marriage, and NOTHING… Read more »

Where is GD? #73
March 26, 2015 11:49 pm

I understand your deep pain resentment and frustration at being left with hatred for men .

Where is GD? In your deep pain and resentment and frustration for being left with hatred for men!

Follow with action: to heal the pain etc
You ll find Him guaranteed . Pray. Friends. Support. And forgiveness … Good luck

and there's another angle
March 26, 2015 10:41 pm

Seems that divorce is the ultimate evil. But a bad marriage is worse. That’s why there’s the built in option of divorce.

We should also consider the extreme challenge marriage presents. Two different people expected to mesh as one unit. Forever.

People who prepare for marriage should be told the “ugly” side – that infatuation, or simply the social pressure to couple up are no preparation for a life together.

To have a successful marriage almost always will require the hardest work you’ll ever do. And stapled to that task is its twin – being a successful parent.

Balanced and Well Written - Thank You
March 26, 2015 8:40 pm

Thank you for taking the time to write this article.
It is very informative. And very relevant.
I just got back from the Ohel. The video was a Pesach video about liberation. The Rebbe is so encouraging.
Chag Sameach, Aliza

To #73
March 26, 2015 8:33 pm

You were given the tools to overcome good luck

Determine who is right
March 26, 2015 8:19 pm

It’s simple… A spouse (or divorcee) who casually speaks negatively about the other is the one who is wrong. The exception is a confidant such as a mashpiya or therapist or Rabbi and Bes Din. Marital issues are not fodder for discussion among friends and the public. It is not for public exposure in marches. There is nothing pro-active about talking about family matters socially etc. It is only destructively reactive, even in cases of abuse. For example, even if a father excessively disciplined a child, publicizing it at the Shul Kiddush is reactive and destructive. They are not the… Read more »

my observation
March 26, 2015 8:13 pm

Most passionate commenters have one specific messy divorce story that’s driving their opinion. I think the point is that every situation is different. Its important to remember that you shouldn’t judge based on stereo types and you probably shouldnt judge at all because usually there is more to it than meets the eye. So not every man who’s wife wants out is a jerk and not every woman who asks for a get is a victim (often it is;)). Also the disrespect to rabonim is very inappropriate for. Those who have little halachic knowledge and big agendas.

Men need more fear of Gd in their lives
March 26, 2015 7:58 pm

Addiction is plaguing our community.Get real,guys.Life is short
Addictions aren’t chassidish and they destroy marriages.

To #69
March 26, 2015 7:56 pm

Thank you!!! That’s exactly my story. I finally realized I needed to save myself and my children from a dysfunctional life full of addictions and mental health issues.

to #71
March 26, 2015 7:15 pm

God is hidden. It’s a rough world. You gotta pick yourself up by your bootstraps and live life. Nobody’s gonna do it for you. Good luck

Finally someone talking tzim zich!
March 26, 2015 7:15 pm

I wanted out of my marriage and she would not accept the get. All of a sudden she and her friends starts spreading rumors that I am abusive and I will not give her a get and just like that she had the support of the wonderful woman of the world

to 56
March 26, 2015 7:07 pm

Have you ever heard of false allegations? That’s the card many women use which force many men to withhold get until she deals ethically in divorce proceedings. Someone who claims she was beaten by ex and he molests children, if false, why would the husband want to reward her monstrous behavior with a get?

I hate this
March 26, 2015 5:59 pm

i had to see my parents fight and abuse themselves and everyone around them my whole life, now I’m marriageable age and I have so many issues, and the guys just move on, talk about no emotional depth, I hate men now just because of my experiences with men in my youth and adolescence, and women are just manipulative and at best pitying me, where is the God who created us to make a better world?

So True THANX
March 26, 2015 5:47 pm

The two “agunahs” that I know, are both vary vocal on the agunah support groups are torturing their husbands under the pretense of AGUNAH

The reason they have no gett is because they have demands which are completely unfair to their spouse.

yay!
March 26, 2015 5:26 pm

yay someone really told the real story and that the husband is right!

2015
March 26, 2015 5:26 pm

Unfotunately,many divorces today are because of mental health issues,abuse,infidelity and addiction.It is painful and criminal to judge women who leave these situations.Before a woman leaves with her children she thinks about it 1000 times.I think that a woman who had the courage and strength to leave a dysfunctional marriage is a heroine. And yes,there is way too much abuse going on. I don’t agree with commenter who said everything can be called abuse.There are certain patterns and criteria for abuse to be labeled as such.The women that I know all left for good reason.And staying for the kids?Children witnessing abuse… Read more »

frustrating
March 26, 2015 5:25 pm

if a man is dragging out the legal divorce than he should at least give a gett in the meanwhile, dont you think?

So tired of this
March 26, 2015 5:02 pm

Time and again, commenters keep bringing up extreme cases to prove their point. Yes, we know there are psycho women out there. We know there are marriages that could have been saved. But I will reiterate my point: in most cases frum women will seek a divorce only under grave circumstances. Most women calling themselves agunahs are awaiting their get because abusive men use the Gett as a power play. It’s not always about money. It is often about big egos. My ex doesn’t even care to see his children, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s telling people I… Read more »

Good Advice #46
March 26, 2015 4:48 pm

People need to invest more in their marriage.
UNLESS there is real abuse, things can be worked out and should be.
Marriage is hard and difficult and amazingly rewarding when there is a commitment to make it work.
Too many people don’t give it enough.

In cases of abuse, it’s different. But even some cases of abuse, therapy can really help. everyone is different though

true but
March 26, 2015 4:24 pm

men are still withholding gets and this cannot be tolerated!!

i hope
March 26, 2015 4:16 pm

i hope this can bring closure to a matter so sensitive and so private back behind closed doors . I would hope everyone gets a clear picture by now!
good article

Y E S ! ! !
March 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Got it right on target!

GET OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY!
March 26, 2015 4:04 pm

A breath of fresh air!
It’s never been the jewish way to have marches about anything, especially when there is nothing that needs ‘change’. stop creating a ‘crisis’ only to propose YOUR solution to that crisis and then denounce all who don’t support your particular ideas as unsympathetic or ignorant in some way. Enough of these manipulative and emotion-appealing tactics that only inflame and divide us. GET OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY!

no. 5
March 26, 2015 4:00 pm

whre were u till now- that was the point trying to convey all the time

Well said
March 26, 2015 3:55 pm

After following everything written and commenting my feelings on the story, finally someone is putting things in perspective, not everyone that shouts i’m an aguna is actually an aguna, and not everyone that says they are a good bais din, is a good bais din to handle this sort of thing (gittin). Every case is different, and what through me off from the people doing the march is the quote: “THERE IS ONLY ONE SIDE TO THIS STORY” as you point out there is NEVER one side to a story! My biggest problem here is that the march was shrouded… Read more »

Men can be abused, too
March 26, 2015 3:53 pm

Make no mistake about it. Men can be abused too. Usually the abuse is an emotional way, not physical, obviously. A woman can undermine her husbands self-esteem, call him a loser, call him ugly, convince him that he is uncapable and that he is not worthy of any love. Women can be smarter than men and highly manipulative. Dont forget about withholding Mikvah, or making the marital life horrible. In case you think I am one angry man, wrong! I am actually a long-time happily married woman, but I know how much true control I have in my marriage and… Read more »

To # 24
March 26, 2015 3:49 pm

You don’t know the whole story. He doesn’t want to give her a get. He knows where she lives, but refuses to give her a get

Protocol for divorce:
March 26, 2015 3:40 pm

Protocol for divorce (if there is no choice, of course): 1) children’s rights (including having BOTH parents in their lives) trump all. These need to be assured first and foremost BEFORE anything else, including EITHER parent having the right to remarry 2) AFTER #1, both parents EQUALLY have a right to move on with their lives, including a) being a parent to their children in EVERY sense of the word b) having the right to live in dignity. While it is expected that BOTH parents will need to expect a lower standard of living, NEITHER parent should be left destitute… Read more »

To number 40.
March 26, 2015 3:33 pm

The truth… whats your point? Are you claiming to have information from god on this?

Ch'er
March 26, 2015 3:32 pm

Yes it’s true that there are men who are unfair to their wives and wives who are unfair to their husbands while in the process of a divorce. However, a get should never have anything to do with a divorce settlement. A get is the halachic ending of a marriage. A mans ability to withhold a get was not given to him as a right to ensure he gets what he wants in a divorce settlement. It’s a formal ending of a marriage. Custody, support etc are separate issues to be worked out. A woman has nothing she can ”… Read more »

fair unfair
March 26, 2015 3:29 pm

even with your trying to be fair to both sides you still come off as the guy being the bad one. my parents were divorced and yet they never stopped each other from being parents. we went to our father whenever we wanted. whether it was to spend the night or the weekend. he picked us up to take us to school and back every day. if he drove by he honked we came running. if we wanted to see him we picked up the phone and he came over. we never understood until we were adults why everyone thought… Read more »

This is no joke
March 26, 2015 3:27 pm

Why are you making this situation a joke.
Men are usually the abusive ones in a marriage .
any man who is a get refuser is usually an abuser and that’s why the woman needs to leave . The men don’t change so theraoy won’t help abusive men.

Abusers are not my brothers or sisters
March 26, 2015 3:27 pm

And the Batei Din that partner with abusers, shame on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T9zoSwIZ_0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Very well said
March 26, 2015 3:23 pm

The best comment throughout the whole 2 week ruckus was from a lady who suggested that mediators are the answer. Rabbi Dovid Eidensohn (has shimush from Reb Moshe Feinstein) is starting a telephone shiur in hilchos ishus (Even HaEzer) in an effort to educate people. 30 years ago, he solved the 2 toughest cases in Monsey. Most involved today fan flames and make this unsolvable, or improperly get involved in cases where reconciliation is sought (even if set offers of sessions are proposed) or in cases in which custody is still being worked out. Secular law in many jurisdictions has… Read more »

Abuse - ALWAYS?
March 26, 2015 3:22 pm

I agree with #36. All of a sudden, many men are branded as abusers. Why? Because they argued with their wives? It’s the boy who cried wolf syndrome – you cry Abuser long enough, at every given opportunity, & when a REAL abuser is identified, it’s unlikely you will be believed. Furthermore (and I absolutely agree that men should give a Gett) why is a man who won’t automatically branded an abuser? What about the wives who blackmail their husbands for money, often when they don’t have it, or they won’t accept the Gett? Yes, they CAN & DO refuse… Read more »

I see what's going on here
March 26, 2015 3:22 pm

With all the ‘just give the get,’ comments. Modern marriage and divorce has been detroyed in the non-Jewish world. The courts are so unreasonable in favor of women that many non-Jewish men refuse to marry because of the danger. The get mitigates this destructive element and ensures that there will be an equitable severance for both sides. When the man refuses, they are declared refusers by beis din and deserver whatever comes of that. But beis din needs to decide that not rabble rousing victims. If there is an issue do a zabla. What these wreckers wish to do is… Read more »

agunah
March 26, 2015 3:21 pm

i dont undertsand how being an “agunah” and a man getting divorce are the same thing? when two people decide to get a divorce they have their reasons and it can get messy. but being an agunah has nothing to do with a “man getting divorce”. men who abuse the gett are abusive men- its simple. stop comparing the both. a woman dosent have a choice to withhold a gett like men do. its not the same. “breath of fresh air” really? there are very few woman who do abuse the man etc. but to with hold the gett- that… Read more »

Missing the point
March 26, 2015 3:18 pm

abuse is wrong and hurtful. In the case of Agunahs they are kept as captives and can’t rebuild their lives. That is because according to Halacha a woman needs a get to remarry and a man can technically refuse to give it. These men abuse this technicality and that’s what makes it ugly. A man can remarry even if his wife refuses to accept a get and rely on a known Heter of 100 rabbis. As painful as divorce can be and as abusive as both parties can be at least the man is not held back from building his… Read more »

I agree 100%
March 26, 2015 3:08 pm

The man’s side of divorce is often ignored, but I know more than one man who was victimized by their ex-wife. Contrary to what I see written in most articles about frum divorce, it is not always the man who is the bad actor in divorce proceedings. Women do have the upperhand when it comes to custody of the children, and some women will try to poison their children’s minds against the father. This is contrary to accepted professional thought as to what is healthy psychologically for children in a divorce situation. It’s good to hear the other side finally.

Work Harder To Stay Married
March 26, 2015 3:06 pm

I just finished counseling a woman who is getting divorced because her in-law mixed in and caused problems. People! Start investing in marriages! Here’s my two cents…x10! I hope it helps! 1-Make your marriage your #1 priority. 2-Speak Softly – it works wonders 3-Don’t rehash the past, deal with the present. 4-Give your spouse space 5-Dont use the words NEVER or ALWAYS -they are poison. 6-Say I love you, often. 7-Use the 5/1 rule. Don’t nag, criticize, show frustration before you have shown 5 positive interchanges. (Concern, Interest, Help, Love, etc) 8-Dont speak negatively to your spouse to anyone! Not… Read more »

Wives making trouble
March 26, 2015 3:05 pm

I see more wives making trouble than their husbands
They are realy abusive

The Kids are the third side of the story
March 26, 2015 3:04 pm

Thanks so much for putting things in perspective. What should also be pointed out is the ease in which divorce happen. When kids are involved, both parents have an obligation to their kids to try to resolve their issues and not divorce. The kids are the third side of the story. They suffer in some cases the most and it could affect their entire lives!

FINALLY!!!
March 26, 2015 3:03 pm

I have been waiting for someone to write what I have been thinking. Very well written and I agree with every word! Im sick people feeling the need to use the publics opinion to get the upper hand in the PRIVATE situation. Not to mention making it very hard to protect our children from knowing about such matters.

Yes you are right!
March 26, 2015 2:58 pm

Many times men are happy to give a get but their wives are destroying them in family court and they feel the only card they hold is the get. Meanwhile the wife runs around crying she is an Aguna victim while she is simultaneously preparing to pulverize him in court as soon as she gets the GET. men OR women shouldn’t know from such pain.
But everyone must always the remember THE REAL VICTIMS IN DIVORCE ARE THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Childrens rights
March 26, 2015 2:57 pm

The issue should not be about mother’s rights or father’s rights. The only important rights are those of the children. Each case needs to be determined on an individual basis to determine what is the best interest for the children. Being exposed to a parent who is abusive/mentally ill will have everlasting effects on children and the adults that they will become. Most state courts are extremely liberal. The presumed custody arrangement is equal 50/50 awarded to both parents, unless there are extreme circumstances that would prove otherwise. I believe that for a frum couple to divorce, there would be… Read more »

The Truth
March 26, 2015 2:47 pm

There is his side
There is her side
Then there is the truth.

to # 3
March 26, 2015 2:44 pm

With the current legal framework, the woman has the upper hand. So in somehow has to balance out and be fair.

I shouldn't have to fight....
March 26, 2015 2:43 pm

….for what is my G-d given right to be a father to my kids in EVERY sense of the word. You want your get upfront and unconditionally; I want to be guaranteed UPFRONT and UNCONDITIONALLY that I will be a parent to my kids in EVERY sense….

Two sides
March 26, 2015 2:42 pm

I see people quoting statistics of the percentage of men who withhold the Gett, also abuse their wife/children. According to Rabbi Dr. A Twersky you are all wrong. According to him the its actually 100%.

I find it offensive
March 26, 2015 2:25 pm

I find it offensive that all those campaigning in support of agunahs insist that every divorced male is an abuser. What is that about? Just because a marriage falls apart doesnt mean he was, or is an abuser!
I think that just turns more people off to your cause… keep it realistic, and everyone will feel for your pain, whether you are waiting for a Gett or are already divorced.

What?
March 26, 2015 2:22 pm

Why? I totally get what you are saying. No one can deny that this happens and is an injustice. This would have been a great article (as based on emotion as it was) had you not related it to the agunah (or gett) issue. Why deflect? Does the fact that men suffer in divorce change the issue that is being discussed? No? One person’s suffering does not make anothers less. You would have served these men better had you treated it as it’s own issue. We should all only know good things.

That's me folks
March 26, 2015 2:22 pm

My ex wants a large cash payout. If not she won’t agree to shared custody. Well than, she’s not getting her Get. Two can play this game. And yes if you keep making this difficult for me I will make it very difficult for you when it comes time to give you the get. Men aren’t cash machines.

Great Dane
March 26, 2015 2:15 pm

One day I woke up to to an email from my ex telling me that she had moved country with our daughter.

Happily divorced
March 26, 2015 2:15 pm

yes its possible. In short, when my husband and l came to the conclusion that our marriage was in the end game, we went to bet din. I saw how miserable he was and the rav said ‘go home and sort things out. Come back in 6 months’. Was he a gett refuser? Was l an agunah? I think not. He needed time to process this new status. I was willing to give him that space. We went to the bet din 6 months later. We were both ready. 19 years later and we are still on good terms, he… Read more »

court
March 26, 2015 2:13 pm

Where are people taking the chutzpah to recommend civil court after a get? Is this torah? All disputes must be adjudicated in beis din, whether financial or custody. The get process cannot be separate from this. It is this left wing anti torah mindset that is creating all the problems.

Getting help
March 26, 2015 2:09 pm

I hear time and time again that couples should work it out .
Abusers don’t get help.They don’t take accountability for their actions and usually say the spouse is the crazy one.If they do go for help,it is used as a tactic for her to stay, and he rarely follows through. Therapy isn’t magic.It’s about being accountable. Most abusers go to therapy to complain about the partner and to prove that she is not mentally well.Once the therapist does not deem her as crazy,he usually ends the sessions.

Dear Crown Heights Father, שיח
March 26, 2015 2:06 pm

The analogy given is not wrong but you must focus on a case by case scenario. There are times when it’s best for the “father” to take his children and run and unfortunately there are situations where it is a must for the mother to take the children and get away as far as possible not for the mothers sake but for the welfare of the children. Studies do show that if there is a “mental” parent it’s best for the children to live with the other parent or another family. But again what happened in CH there is more… Read more »

Shared custody
March 26, 2015 2:04 pm

Most courts today give shared custody, unless the kids are very little or the parents agreed that mother will be a primary caregiver. Reality: Most fathers dont want physical custody. If mothers move (usually for valid reasons – family, jobs, health) , most loving fathers i know move closer to kids.
What gett has to do with above?

finally
March 26, 2015 2:01 pm

This is the first balanced article I am seeing in a while. All the previous articles paint everyone with a broad brush, and create all types of misleading slogans to gain sympathy. Every case must be decided individually. No 2 cases are alike. This is an honest article, because the writer is able to concede that his side is at fault also. Unlike the previous wtiter who sounded so sanctimonious, and had everyone cheering along, even though it was full of generalizations and short on facts. To number 3, you are wrong. The husband does not have the upper hand… Read more »

What process of giving the get
March 26, 2015 1:49 pm

Just give it. A woman wants to be free. Just give her the basic right of freedom owed to every human being. A mensch acts with menschlichkeit. Enough of the chillul Hashem, enough of the pain caused.
Settle the issues in civil court after giving the get.

Yes!
March 26, 2015 1:47 pm

I am a 26 year old woman, happily married BH, but cannot help think- do men have ANY protection?! why is it that a woman can just demand a get, say I want to leave and give the husband no option? What if the husband deeply loves his wife and is utterly shocked by her request? What if he loves his wife and children so dearly that he doesn’t, and rightfully shouldn’t just let them go? What if he wants to try to make things work and maybe see a counselor? Can the wife automatically call foul? I feel bad… Read more »

GET organizations please step in to broker a GETs for men
March 26, 2015 1:46 pm

There’s a young man here, whose wife left Crown Heights over 10 years ago with the children and refuses to accept a get (there are two cases of this here). Initially she took the children to Israel refusing to divulge her location. (so he can’t give her a get) Her family wanted him to give them a large sum and in exchange they would “broker” the get. In typical Sefardic Get Torture fashion- this poor woman is being held hostage by her own family!! This man wants to give a get, he just needs an address! Meanwhile her family is… Read more »

Always messy from the start.
March 26, 2015 1:44 pm

Divorce can brings out one’s worse side ,however in the case of a divorce that was ended because of abuse,the mess began way before the divorce. The abuser’s messiness caused the divorce .

AMEN
March 26, 2015 1:41 pm

SPOT ON!!

thank you
March 26, 2015 1:40 pm

We need more sane voices like this.

Voice of reason
March 26, 2015 1:40 pm

Thank you for your eloquent voice of reason on this topic. You have given a very fair and accurate appraisal on this highly emotional issue.

mother of a divorced SON
March 26, 2015 1:37 pm

You are absolutely right! Men suffer terribly. Son women are really witches.

well said.
March 26, 2015 1:37 pm

I agreed with yehudis’ and R Leahs articles, NOT with Alizas article and I agree with yours. You bring a good point to the discussion.

Let's be fair
March 26, 2015 1:32 pm

So far the only article yet that I agree with. Forget about Feminist rights or Male rights… How about Human Rights?
No one should abuse Halacha for their own personal gain and that includes both genders.

Let’s judge every case individually… Instead of screaming about all Agunahs!

You are right, but...
March 26, 2015 1:28 pm

you are absolutely right. But 90% of men who withhold the Gett have a history of domestic abuse. Those cases are the ones the woman needs community support, and this is where the “every agunah is my sister” campaign enters.

Please don't include abusers in this mess.
March 26, 2015 1:28 pm

Divorce is very messy,and the stench is great. However, in cases of divorces occurring from domestic violence,this is not the case.Abusers lack empathy and are not the one’s suffering from the end of the marriage.They are actually upset by the break of freedom and independence. They do not rip sackcloth in mourning. In an abusive marriage the only person suffering are the victims.The abuser smirks and is at ease when all goes his merry way.Please don’t lump all divorces together.It is simply not accurate or true.

Well said
March 26, 2015 1:27 pm

Good on u for not jumping to conclusions and taking sides . You really brought out a true and important point.

Yosef
March 26, 2015 1:25 pm

Yes, men can be on the losing side of the divorce as well.
However, custody is taken care of in court.
Men withholding a Gett is 95% of the time abuse / control.
These are two different topics.

Gosh
March 26, 2015 1:23 pm

Be brave put your name .

Amazing
March 26, 2015 1:22 pm

You found the words to describe exactly what I have been feeling about this story

Well said...
March 26, 2015 1:21 pm

I think this article puts things in perspective.

dont divorce
March 26, 2015 1:15 pm

don’t divorce unless there is infedility get training for marriage ” this is the commitment that both has to make before getting married 1 you are not allowed NEVER to raise your voice to your wife/husband 2 you are obligated to have always a smile and positive attitude 3 you are obligated to engraved in you ” gam zu le tova” and never complain about money and other things 4 get always a 3rd party to resolve a problem 5 you are obligated to treat always well and give kavod to your husband/wife 6 never speak something bad against you… Read more »

beautiful
March 26, 2015 1:14 pm

THIS IS BEAUTY. NO POLITICS, not seeking to be controversial, just… wisdom

ANYNIMOUS
March 26, 2015 1:13 pm

KOL HA KAVOD FOR SAYING WHAT MANY THINK (AND LIVE THROUGH).

very fair article
March 26, 2015 1:13 pm

Every case needs to be judged independently. We can’t just slap a label and jump to conclusion on any particular divorce or Get proceeding (civil or Jewish) as long as it is within the process of the courts and or Bes Din.

agree
March 26, 2015 1:13 pm

Three “agunahs” that I know, two of whom are fairly vocal on the agunah support groups are both failing to mention that they are in limbo status solely because they have demands which are completely unfair to their spouse. One wants an exorbitant amount of money and if her husband won’t pay she refuses to proceed. The other wants full parental rights to the children and the husband must agree to give up all rights to a relationship with the children. Yes, these women call themselves agunahs. This is where these women are abusing the word. And yes, people are… Read more »

Two sides
March 26, 2015 1:12 pm

There are two sides to a dysfunctional marriage. There is only one side to domestic abuse! BH with regard to abuse we are finally learning that we need to believe the victims. BH we are learning that just because outwardly you are pious, it doesn’t mean you can’t be an abuser. Now it’s time to start realizing that domestic abuse is much the same! Also, just as you would never condone a victim of child abuse spending time alone with their abuser, children of an abusive parent DO NOT benefit from spending time alone with their abuser. A Parent’s “rights”… Read more »

Yes but
March 26, 2015 1:08 pm

The point is that within the current halachik framework the man has the upper hand.

Thanks
March 26, 2015 1:06 pm

For a breath of fresh air. Still some normal ppl out. There

Finally...
March 26, 2015 1:06 pm

I’ve been waiting for this side of the story to be told. Throughout all the anger and outrage thats been going on, noone mentioned the fathers who are kept from seeing their kids, who are thrown in jail and who regularly receive restraining orders – and they are not abusers. Of course any form of abuse must not be tolerated. Any man who is abusive physically or emotionally should receive just consequences. However all of us know that theres a dark side to all of this, some divorces happen simply beacause 2 people couldn’t get along – not due to… Read more »

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