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Thursday, 17 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 25, 2024

A Year in the Making: Behind the New Lamed-K Certification

COLlive exclusive: The creation of the new Lamed-K supervision, which replaced the CHK to certify Shor Habor meats at AgriStar, can be traced to the Kinus Hashluchim in New York. Full Story

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Nice to see the full story
March 11, 2024 12:34 am

Always something rotten really going on

I wish people would be more open and transparent instead of making seemingly fake controversy to save face

Nothing new
Reply to  Nice to see the full story
March 11, 2024 8:01 am

That’s how the kashrus business (and any business) works. The owner pays for the service that will bring him the most clients=profit.

If anyone feels there is anything injustice, the place for that is in beis din, not in public!

As Yiden the machlokes in Gemara between the Amoraim Rava and Abayeh are far more interesting…

Pesach is coming
March 11, 2024 12:56 am

I just bought all the CHK meat in the stores near me to charge a premium come pesach!

Thanks guys!

Tomim
Reply to  Pesach is coming
March 11, 2024 4:54 pm

I hope you are not serious! Because…The meat you bought is NOT kosher le’pessach! The plant has actual chometz (the cold cuts and salami have wheat in them – before pessach), the butchering knives are all chometz, they are also sharpened on chometz equipment,

Madness
March 11, 2024 1:00 am

“After discussions, he concluded that the CHK certification lacked ‘brand recognition”

So let’s create a whole new fly by night hechser to fix that issue lol.

Inaccuracies
March 11, 2024 1:07 am

a. “Rabbi Weissmandel, under whom all kashrus operates at AgriStar, said it needed a better-planned orchestration.” However, in a recent email written by Rabbi Kirczenberg he quotes from Rabbi Weismandel himself, dated Jan. 1, to the CHK. The email stated: “agri was not willing at the time to implement”. b. “After all, all previous Chabad rabbis have never asked for these specific methods”. This is also untrue. This was asked for many times. Additionally, some of those changes were only asking to revert back to how things were originally. Rabbi Kirszenberg in that email quotes an email dated December 29, sent from CHK… Read more »

Collive , Kudos
Reply to  Inaccuracies
March 11, 2024 9:07 am

I am very impressed Collive allowed a post with the actual truth to be posted , hear hear , maybe you can be an objective media oulet.

So again we glorify billionaires and money , how is that relevant to a hechsher??

And using the kinus and the word shliach to kasher a sheretz , we arent that stupid guys.

משפייט איו גאנץ קהליה’ס פנים. און מזאגט אז
סאיז גשמי ברכה

All good & fine
March 11, 2024 1:13 am

But everyone following this story should think good & hard: What would the Rebbe say about all this?

Competition is always good
March 11, 2024 2:36 am

I don’t understand why people don’t want competition. It makes everything better

Prices standards

it’s always better for the Consumer

About time the chk did something about this
March 11, 2024 3:19 am

I truly think the chk did the right thing, if you ask my opinion they shouldve done it along Time ago , just they had patience, as for the restaurants,yes at the beginning there probably will be some lack but overtime,there will be new products from others and more supplies from others , it’s a long time plan , that overtime will work out, hey it’s worth it for a higher kasherus not everything is about money

I'm a simple person
March 11, 2024 5:28 am

I don’t care about all of these politics.
Times are tough.
I have zero interest of paying extra premium prices to have kosher meat that’s anyways way more pricier for the last 3 years.
These artificial (potential) shortage benefits no one but the owner of the factory. And brings shame to the concept NOT KNOWN/OR NOT UNDERSTOOD ENOUGH BY MANY OF THIS CALLED “SHECHITAS LUBAVITCH”.

Tldr: You want people interested on having this “hiddur”? Then please make it easier for the commoner, not harder!

Not in this case
Reply to  I'm a simple person
March 12, 2024 1:13 pm

The only thing that matters in shechita at the end of the day is integrity.

Hechsher hasn't replaced
March 11, 2024 5:47 am

It’s clear that the new hechsher, wasn’t replacing CHK, so why are some so bothered.
Is CHK the official Lubavitch Hechsher with room for no other?
Live and let live!!

Yes it is?
Reply to  Hechsher hasn't replaced
March 12, 2024 1:13 pm

?

Question: Only Lubavitch Shochtim?
March 11, 2024 6:59 am

Would like to know what the particular improvements are being instituted. And another question: Has it been always been the case that only Lubavitcher Shochtim were at Shor HaBor and if Lamed K is committed to this?

Dovid
Reply to  Question: Only Lubavitch Shochtim?
March 11, 2024 8:14 am

Shor Harbor never never had only LUB shochtim
Out of 7 there were 4

No there wasn't
Reply to  Question: Only Lubavitch Shochtim?
March 11, 2024 9:29 am

But this is what the badatz of crown heights wanted to fix that it should be all lubavitch shochtim also that it should be with all the hidurim in the shichta

Awtsmoos
Reply to  No there wasn't
March 11, 2024 6:45 pm

B”H
Do you have a source?

What were the specific issues?

Used to live there
Reply to  Question: Only Lubavitch Shochtim?
March 13, 2024 3:23 pm

From someone who used to live there….there have ALWAYS been all sorts of Shochtim…. not just Lubavitchers!

Politics 🙄
March 11, 2024 7:46 am

What a shame. The beginning of this article talks about the importance of a shochet having yiras shamayim etc and then we’re left with kashrus boiling down to a machlokes of bitterness on both sides.
This is so twisted and terrible. #wishiwasavegetarian

Rav Dworkin
March 11, 2024 8:05 am

FOR THE RECORED:

Before the current Badatz (Bais Din of Crown Heights) was created, in the time of Rav Dworkin the Hechsher for meat, wine and milk etc. was always called “Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch”.

Few probs with this:
March 11, 2024 8:14 am

Brand recognition? Whoever was looking for CHK found it.

Seems the company didn’t like the internal politics of the Rabbonim and took sides. Don’t think that’s their business to do. It’s the Rabbonim who make those decisions NOT the company.

So the Rabbonim decided to give their hechsher BEFORE coming to the sight?

Seems like it was a coordinated effort between the company and the new Rabbonim, that hardly seems like pure motives.

Sorry. Disappointing to see a new hechsher established to kick the established one out.

Which BD is yours?
March 11, 2024 10:22 am

Please don’t look this as Machlokes
You have to follow your BD. If you lived in CH , you are bound by the laws of your BD
Lamed K. Is the BD for many people who don’t live in CH or international
You follow your BD
CH Beis Din is for CH , not for all Lubavitch

Hlachic Source?
Reply to  Which BD is yours?
March 12, 2024 10:10 am

What is the halachic source for “you are bound by the laws of your BD”?

What do you mean?
Reply to  Which BD is yours?
March 12, 2024 11:34 am

Not true at all, in simlah chadasha it says that one should only eat meat in one of three ways the one everyone relies on is just they trust the rabonim in charge, it does not say of your town.
You either trust the rabonim of the hechsher oof you don’t

Why let something else make ahavas yisroel hard?
March 11, 2024 10:43 am

It’s okay to have a different Lubavitch hashgacha. It’s still Lubavitch shechita!
No need to make the new hashgacha feel bad. No need to make it hard on CHK either. No judgement needed in the article or the comments. All that matters is we still have love and respect for each other.

I don't get it
March 11, 2024 11:22 am

What is the big deal? If you trust CHK go with them. If you trust LK, go with them.
Who cares and why does this have to be a machlokes at all?

Yiras Shomayim
March 11, 2024 11:55 am

So do the shochetim of Agri Star have more or less yiras shomayim under CHK or ל K? Do the shochetim of David Elliot have more yiras Shomayim than Agri Star’s?

Since that’s what this is all about I would like to know.

Yes about David Elliot
Reply to  Yiras Shomayim
March 11, 2024 1:32 pm

David Elliot actually for years has been known to have higher standards than agri ,I for 1 have always bought only David Elliot and not agri or sometimes would also buy Montreal the reason is because I wanted 💯 percent shchita lubavitch

Great
Reply to  Yes about David Elliot
March 11, 2024 2:11 pm

For that matter I have bought for years from the ch butcher on Albany who is under the chk but is known to arrange his own shchita with all the hidurim and only shchita lubavitch, and of course I also buy David Elliot for the chicken

same shochatim
Reply to  Yiras Shomayim
March 11, 2024 7:52 pm

the yiras shomaim will stay the same
ALL the shochatim will stay the same (for all hechshers)
just the stickers will be change
and if you want to go with the Original you should buy Only weismendel

Stop it
March 11, 2024 12:07 pm

There’s no Makor for eating from only lubavitch shochtim.

historically
Reply to  Stop it
March 11, 2024 1:17 pm

the inyan was to personally know your shtetl’s shochet… it’s a thing. nowadays, most people aren’t purchasing live animals or poultry and having them shechted by an individual they know personally, so we purchase meat from a hechsher that we know and value their standards. that’s why this new hechsher is confusing for everyone.

We don't live in the shtetel anymore
Reply to  historically
March 11, 2024 5:41 pm

You answered your self.

It makes no difference if it’s CHK LamedK OK or OU

It’s about trust.

And you shouldn’t be picking and choosing between different products if you don’t trust OU GLATT for example on meat then you can’t trust then on all they’re other stuff too…

Facts
Reply to  historically
March 12, 2024 7:27 am

Not confusing, more reliable,

The Rebbe is the source of shchitas Lubavitch
Reply to  Stop it
March 11, 2024 3:44 pm

…During the yechidus, the Rebbe said to Rabbi Yitzchok Hendel that he needed to begin to institute a Lubavitcher shechita in Montreal. R’ Hendel asked: What does that mean? The Rebbe said: Lubavitcher shechita is shechita that the Rebbe, my father-in-law, would eat. R’ Hendel understood that the Rebbe was at that very moment introducing a new standard of conduct for Chassidim and so he said that he still did not understand precisely what this meant. The Rebbe clarified: When people say that meat is Lubavitcher shechita, it means that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is responsible for the shechita and the… Read more »

Not a good source
Reply to  The Rebbe is the source of shchitas Lubavitch
March 11, 2024 5:33 pm

This just explains what lubavitch shcitah means not that this is the standard that we should all live by.

This yechidus is always taken out of context

Pinchos Woolstone
Reply to  The Rebbe is the source of shchitas Lubavitch
March 15, 2024 11:26 am

I do not believe that all the shochtim working on those CHK shechita runs in Postville were always Lubavitcher learning Chassidus

There's better alternatives
March 11, 2024 12:09 pm

The OU & OK a far more reliable than chk or lamedK

Awtsmoos
Reply to  There's better alternatives
March 11, 2024 6:48 pm

B”H
But do they learn chabad Chassidus?

Pinchos Woolstone
March 11, 2024 1:07 pm

In many cities around the world where Lubavitchers live there is no separate “Lubavitch Shechita”, people buy from the mehadrin kashrus standard locally available. In certain cases Lubavitcher Chassidim who are Shochtim work for these Hechsherim.
Crown Heights as the center of world Lubavitch has its own Hechsher, which was established in the time of Rabbi Z S Dworkin.
It is interesting to note that the local BD does not carry the name Lubavitch or Chabad.
Meat and poultry under a Lubavitch BD for distribution throughout the 50 states is theoretically a positive development

Why no Chabad in name
Reply to  Pinchos Woolstone
March 12, 2024 1:01 am

That is because the Rebbe said that the CH BD should be a community BD not a Chabad/Lubavitch BD

Pinchos Woolstone
Reply to  Why no Chabad in name
March 15, 2024 11:21 am

What does that mean, in CH the orthodox community is 99% a Lubavitcher community

Pls enough.
March 11, 2024 1:29 pm

As long as they’re Yiras shamayim! And there chabadnics that study chassidus.

Why do u guys make such a big deal.

Just does what the Rabbonim tell him to.
March 11, 2024 8:22 pm

Everyone keeps harping on the idea that these processes (Hidurim) weren’t instituted years ago, so they can’t be instituted now! As a Kosher consumer, I expect that the Rabbonim giving a Hechsher in a place where meat is “mass-produced” will keep adding improvements that will enhance the Kashrus when and as they see fit. How can we accept the Kahrus of a brand where the management simply says that the orders of the Rav Hamchshir are to be ignored? If the price of CHK meat goes up, those who want to pay less can simply find an alternate Hashgocha. Why… Read more »

What do the the Rabbanim say
March 12, 2024 4:48 am

Can the Rabbanim of Lamed K speak up and explain what happened, and how the kashrus is the same good as before?

Curious
March 12, 2024 12:41 pm

Are these sold in midtown? If so, who sells them. I buy Empire chicken, Israeli chopped meat in Trader Joe & Happy to have them as a source.

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