Tuesday, 25 Adar I, 5784
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YOU Can Fix the Yeshiva System

From the COLlive inbox: The father whose son was rejected by Oholei Torah Zal offers a suggestion how to fix the Yeshiva system. Full Story

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The FIX behind the fix
July 6, 2018 9:08 am

It seems from the article, that the main issue is the need for bochurim to attend OT & MOTOWN in order to go on bochur shlichus: “But rather because they control IF and where a bochur goes on shlichus.” The author then goes on journey through history. What if instead of this journey, the question became “Why does a bochur need to go on bochur shlichus?” Let’s revist some of the math logic in this article: “with its current ever-growing numbers bursting at the seams, instead of increasing our options, we continue to funnel these swelling masses into the same… Read more »

to 71, 73, and anyone who agrees with this article
July 5, 2018 6:02 pm

I only picked out 71 and 73 because those were some that caught my eye while scrolling through the article, but this applies to everyone.. I don’t see the issue with anyone being rejected just because they don’t fit the mold… if you don’t raise your children in a chassidisher avir, including but not limited to, frumkeit, chassidishkeit, mesiras nefesh for the rebbes inyonim, ubeikar shlichus, mivtzoim, going to the ohel, Limud hachasidus, 3 perokim Rambam (the full 9 yards)… WHAT RIGHT DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANY TAANOS ON HANHALOS!!! They are meant to FURTHER the chinuch of your… Read more »

BTM videos
July 4, 2018 12:25 pm

Try this


Also go on YouTube search Bais Toras Menachem there are several nice videos and slideshows that will give jou a nice glimpse of the Yeshiva.

GREAT option for bachurim post zal (18+)

Hatzlacha to all to find the RIGHT program that’s BEST for THEM !

To #80
July 4, 2018 11:32 am

The link doesn’t work when you click on it.. Can you please repost ?
Would love to learn more about the program !

Eretz Yisroel
July 4, 2018 6:18 am

Every single Israeli Yeshiva Gedolah, of which there are more than you think, has a third year–”Shiur Daled” in OT is really Shiur Gimmel–and nothing is preventing more American bochurim from attending these Yeshivos. (In fact, even after airfare you’ll probably come out ahead as far as tuition is concerned.) I went to Tzfas for all three years of Zal, where I had a great experience, and then came straight to 770 for Kvutzeh, which worked out very well for me personally. Many of my friends arranged Shlichus for themselves either immediately after Shiur Gimmel or after a year of… Read more »

Topic of "aging staff"....
July 3, 2018 3:59 am

I think the topic of aging staff is relevant to those who have been in teaching positions for years, but who have not honed their skills or maintained their responsibility. And what might that be? To avail themselves of the vast resources pertaining to the art and science of teaching. In other words, they have demanded that their students learn, but they are unaware that there is room for them to learn also. Things change. It’s not necessary to adapt to every one of them, but it is a sign of intelligence to know that adapting to some of them… Read more »

Comment to #28
July 3, 2018 3:36 am

Last paragraph perfect! Wish more would flex their mental muscle on that idea.

To #15
July 3, 2018 3:34 am

No, every student that is interested in learning may not learn with the techniques teachers have been using. Teaching and learning involves more then “teacher-gives- info-student-learns-it”. Not being aware of this is part of the reason many students have not had the opportunity to reach their potential! It is time to become educated about educating.

Try Bais Toras Menachem of LA..
July 3, 2018 2:17 am

Individualized attention.. The program revolves around the student, not vice versa.

See Smicha.net for more info

And watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m31tHKAeq58

What are YOU going to do?
July 2, 2018 7:09 am

This article is 100% true. But at the end of the day, even though it’s nice to make people aware of the fact they aren’t alone and vent a bit, it won’t change a thing. Bochurim will still be accepted and rejected from the major yeshivos for whatever ulterior or non ulterior motives. I believe the natural cycle of events orchestrated by Hashem called nature will fix things up. The law of unintended consequences is happening. The community grew too big (!) for the infrastructure, time will tell or someone with a lot of funding, a big heart and power… Read more »

54 very interesting
July 2, 2018 6:36 am

maybe you need to get your head checked, or at least get off the computer and walk outside for a few minutes and notice the fact that space is not unlimited. If a yeshiva zal is X amount of square feet,has X amount of seats and the dorm has X amount of beds, then the yeshiva cannot accept more that X amount of bochurim. If you truly believe your logic, why don’t you invite 10000000 people over to your house for shabbos, because “how can you turn away another yid?” If you do not allow the 10000000 hungry yidden to… Read more »

July 1, 2018 11:42 pm

BSD As i walk down the street in Crown Heights I’ve started to notice all of those bochurim that look ‘chilled’ and those that look like their still in the program (black and white, hat, tzizis). Is it possible that its 50% 50%?? What I’m trying to say is that perhaps the system is not working for 50% of our boys?? oy That’s a grim statistic. If bochurim would be satisfied, have good motivating teachers, an amazing curriculum, get the help they need along the way, be accepted without judgment and LOVED and cared for by Hanhala, I doubt the… Read more »

July 1, 2018 10:05 pm

Does anybody have any idea how to improve the Elementary yeshivos in our community. I think that is where the academic system desperately needs a major makeover.That’s were the unnecessary academic problems begin. Let’s do something

Or Elchanon Chabad
July 1, 2018 9:09 pm

Mabe LA should open the next Shiur Daled

An observation
July 1, 2018 7:08 pm

I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that Rosh Yeshivois and hanholois of some of our mosidois are fallable and have made and will continue to make shocking decisons regarding bochurim within the system or those who want to join. It can be a turning point for the bochur either way. The hanholois need to be so careful in their deciisions on how each and every bochur is to be treated. There are no general rules. Each student should be treat by hanholoh and teachers, as if they are their own child. Just stating the obvioius, of… Read more »

To #71 from #65
July 1, 2018 6:10 pm

I would like to address your comment with a story about one of my students to his father. The father was becoming more and more disappointed and impatient with his son. He began a campaign of addressing his concerns by talking with teachers, rabbis, administration, and finally his son. As the dad was about to expand upon the results of all of his conversations with “experts”, his son asked if he could say something first. “Papa, I am trying. I want you to know that, and I don’t know what else I can do. I do want to learn, I… Read more »

The Confusion
July 1, 2018 4:08 pm

When I was in Australia back in the 80s we were on shlichus as part of a Kollel – Lubavitch….which sort of was to keep up or compete with the litvish kollel there. While many bale batik attended. And by far Chabad there (Melbourne) is the main force…it nevertheless was never on par or attracted people like the litvish kollel. The reason…as it seemed was suggested by the Rebbe to Rabbi Y Groner (a”h)…. “This is not our focus in the world to establish kollels”. If we would likewise clarify…the real goal of what our Yeshivos are intended for….as the… Read more »

65 i agree
July 1, 2018 3:13 pm

but lets not forget the students responsibility. The teacher could be amazing, but if the student simply is not interested , what can the teacher do? The teacher could be teaching the good students very well, or trying to teach the not interested students as well and not see any peiros from the, at half the level.

to #21. logically fallacious
July 1, 2018 3:09 pm

why don’t you listen to what the comment says instead of attacking the writers personality? his “integrity” has nothing to do with what he wrote.

He (or she) just wrote that 1) there are bochrim that like OT and 2) just asked a few logical questions about what the author wrote and his motives. the commentaters name has nothing to do with it.

And no, obviously he was not making a comparison btwn the Rebbe’s heavenly existance and the staff of OT. he was just saying that amongst people who are godol baTorah, age is not necessarily a factor.

The other problem is what comes after Shiur daled and shlichus
July 1, 2018 1:07 pm

770 has no structured program for Americans. We need more structured programs fror post shiur daled and up

Not $10,000 a boy!!
July 1, 2018 1:06 pm

To number 61:
Have you applied to OT?
Even Parents with no money are paying in the $15,000 range before the grants. Effectively, $8-9000 out of pocket.
I know Parents that can afford, are being charged almost $20,000. Granted this is with dorm. Out of state parents get less than NYers.

Don’t forget the non refundable $200 application fee, that brings in a nice amount as so many apply and are rejected!

I believe your estimate of $2.5 million is low ball!!

Very Interesting!
July 1, 2018 12:08 pm

Since everyone is a shaliach then people dont have to travel far to do their shelichus because wherever they are they can do it!
This means boys don’t have to go to certain yeshivas to go “on shelichus” because they are already a shaliach!

July 1, 2018 11:48 am

The reality is that not all teachers should be teachers! Or if they haven’t had training in the skills and knowledge required to be a real teacher, it must be mandatory to acquire it. We can’t hold teachers totally responsible for the problem, but they are surely part of the problem in some cases. Let’s move away from the notion that if you know something well, you can teach it well. Not so.Someone can have knowledge of a topic or concept that is incomparable, but have very limited understanding of how to effectively teach it! Furthermore, that “genius” might not… Read more »

To #5
July 1, 2018 11:30 am

The point, I think, is this: very good that many do like OT; however, a teacher’s responsibility is to teach ALL students in their midst. A teacher should be able to pull from a variety of techniques so that he can help the student access the learning. Teaching isn’t only about giving out information in the same way all the time. It is an art wherein we must find ways to teach every individual. The Rebbe said that we should teach the student within his current ability or style (paraphrase).

Many years ago
July 1, 2018 11:10 am

In 1990 I entered Morristown after struggling with the entrance farher but since I had a reputation as a chassdisher bucher I was taken in, I was all excited about having my next 2-3 years delving into learning in serene Morristown but I found out really quick that this was primarily just a shlichus waiting room & I unfortunately did not end up learning much in my 2 years there. But I did go on shlichus.

58 & 59 spot on
July 1, 2018 10:33 am

I’m in.

July 1, 2018 10:21 am

Has anyone thought of doing a “Mishal Am” known in Israel as a hearing the voice of the nation. What ordinary citizens feel.
A forum to hear the thoughts of bachurim…in what they feel could improve the overall system…
Deep in the hearts of each bochur may be serious considerations that can affect his life..

The Money Myth
July 1, 2018 9:42 am

There were some comments about how new mosdos require money. The with Pel Grants (about $5K to $6K per boy) that is a very good start. This past year there were about 250 boys in shiur daled OT. I believe it is safe to say, with Pel Grants etc. that the average boy paid $10K for the year. That means that off of shiur daled ALONE they are bringing in $2.5 million!!! The money goes to fund other branches of their organization (which is their prerogative) but why isn’t some of that being reinvested back into shiur daled to make… Read more »

Agree with #13
July 1, 2018 9:36 am

The Rebbe said everyone is a shaliach! WoW!!!! What a powerful message! why is this not talked about ? What does this mean? Even Children? What is the job of the shaliach? Etc etc This really needs to be taught properly when kids are young ,then everyone knows their mission in life!!!

early article on the topic. Another one
July 1, 2018 9:12 am

1. TIME FOR CHANGES IN THE YESHIVA EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM THE PROBLEM IS GETTING WORSE In the Summer 5750 issue of the Yiddishe Heim, in an article entitled “My Child Is Not A Learner”, I described the contemporary problem of many normal Yeshiva students who somehow gradually fall through the cracks, becoming disinterested in Jewish learning and often leaving Torah Yiddishkeit altogether. I described the symptoms, their causes, and the historical background. I pointed out that transferring the European Yeshiva system to these shores requires adaptation to the special requirements of a new and different situation. One of the many new… Read more »

early article on the topic
July 1, 2018 9:08 am

I wrote 2 articles way back in the Yiddishe Heim, at the time that the Rebbe would look those articles over and make hagaos. Here they are: MY SON IS NOT A “LEARNER” or TIME FOR CHANGES IN THE YESHIVA EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM Rabbi Yeheskel Lebovic Yeshiva Education on the Rise Over the past several decades Torah-true Judaism has made tremendous strides in America and elsewhere. Jewish schools are flourishing, some of them bursting at the seams. Jewish life is vibrant and pulsating. The Torah community keeps growing and the Yeshiva system of education is becoming the norm for more and… Read more »

28 Nissan
July 1, 2018 9:05 am

This made me think of the sicha. Do all you can to bring Moshiach. creating acultural shift, a mindset change depends on each one of us. If we each do what we can, sincerely work to do our part, collectively we will bring Geulah, to this Yeshiva challenge and to other situations. Speedily in our days.

Re. #27
July 1, 2018 9:05 am

First, I highly commend Rabbi Schchet for this article. I totally agree with #27, and would like to add: I attended an event right after Tishrei in OT, honoring the first group of shluchim The Rebbe sent in 1956. Someone (a member of ot hanhala championed the mossed as a place where one objective and goal exists by all bochurim in the Yeshiva..”Shlichus”….. I asked myself…while this is no doubt a highly noble goal. Should not a focus be too on bochurim shteigin in learning?? Can we imagine the Kidush shem Lubavitch if a great Shliach is recognized in the… Read more »

To number 54
July 1, 2018 8:42 am

Agree with you

I agree 1000% with you
July 1, 2018 8:24 am

To number 5 you need to get your head checked
To number 8 I agree with you.
These send and Yeshiva’s play GOD and they have zero right to reject a child and I’m sure if the Rebbe was alive we wouldn’t have half these issues and some people think they are greater than thou. Well those people will get paid back one day. We as parents have to do what’s best for our kids.

Hope this comment is read
July 1, 2018 7:20 am

1. To the point that there are bachurim that have a productive year in OT: Even if OT worked for some bachurim it doesn’t work for most, ask the bachurim, I personally know many bachurim that had serious yeridos and more that bh it wasn’t so bad but it still was year wasted and taught the bachurim bad habbits (wasting time, sleeping in…) A year of no progress in avodas hashem (which means automatically the opposite like the famous mashal of going up a mountain that if you’re not going up your going down). Definitely 95% of bachurim before the… Read more »

Perhaps a solution.
July 1, 2018 7:01 am

1) interesting discussion and more importantly a well written frank article. 2) there is no need for the comments that are derogatory. It’s שבעה עשר בתמוז. 3) I spent two years in Yeshiva and then pursued another vocation. 4) the problem lies not with OT and MT. The problem is with the other yeshivas who only want bochurim from OT and MT. They automatically assume that a Bochur from OT, MT is the best. It means less work for them. Meanwhile there are amazing boys learning in other Yeshivos who for other reasons did not go to the US and… Read more »

Igud Hayeshivas
July 1, 2018 5:59 am

Is a fairly New organization that was set up to help bochurim in Yeshiva to succeed. It is headed by a young Rabbi, Mendel Itzinger, who has a passion and a vision. Perhaps the writer could get together with him (I am not sure where he lives) and really got the ball rolling on something.

To #5
July 1, 2018 5:05 am

We’ll said, my brother just finished there, he loved it.
To #8, are you nuts? Yeshivos can’t accept everyone… So let’s say they can accept 50 they choose the 50 that they feel will gain the most there, simple logic.

That Shiur Daled Is Only A Train Station To Shlichus.
July 1, 2018 5:01 am

I Must tel you, that Ashrei Chelkom Vegodoil Zechusom to the yeshivois and to the Shiurei Daled’s That Where Zoiche To be a train Station To Shlichus!! And Ashrei Chelkom Vegodoil Zechusom To The Bochurim which are Zoiche To become Sluchim of The Rebbe and Go On Shlichus Bepoiel Mamosh!! One thing is for sure, that all Dow we don’t see with our flesh eyes how the rebbe picks the shluchim – Because Bederech hateva it goes true the Hanhololois hayeshivois, but there is no question at all that rebbe is the full baal Habayis who should Become his Shliach… Read more »

Early Education can make the most change
July 1, 2018 4:42 am

The author pens what many feel inside, while not saying his opinion is law, nor denigrating those who would disagree. Kudos. Oholei Torah and Morristown will see the fruits of their labor. They are good institutions, and the people who teach there are not heartless monsters. But a monopoly just doesn’t work in our system. There is too wide a range of boys to attempt to shove them into one box. It is therefore, that bochurim are choosing to go to Australia, Pretoria, the RAP, Singapore Shlichus, and other self made shlichus instead of An oholei Torah shlichus or even… Read more »

July 1, 2018 2:08 am

This Friday I got a call from my sons yeshiva that my son was rejected for next year, a couple of thoughts that went through my mind.

1. It’s a month and a half till the beginning of next year we got very little notice.

2. My son made a deal with the menahl after pesach and kept the deal and the menahl told me that he kept the deal and now after all the hard work my son put in he is told to leave??????

Thank you

Levi z

33 but
July 1, 2018 2:04 am

wouldn’t it also be great if he didn’t have to skip the shiur? Some people want a good shiur and they aren’t getting it

Important point missed
July 1, 2018 1:43 am

Some readers missed an important point because they didn’t read the first article. At no point did the author claim that the age of the faculty was the problem with these yeshivos but rather, the rejection letters/phone calls he received specified that “because of our aging faculty, we don’t have the ability to accept his child.” The author did not accuse these institutions having an elderly staff, rather the institutions specified that in their rejection.

מ׳דארף טוישן די קאפ
July 1, 2018 1:38 am

Or issue is one in only that every other Moses that opens up is more modern then the others people send to the old because it’s more chasidish we should open more chasdishe yrshivas then thinks will change And on the issue of שלוחות we have a mind set issue y shouldn’t wee teach r kids like the rebbe wanted to that is that nothing is higher and bigger important then learning the holy Torah a bucher till he dosn’ Have the ol of tרחים על צווארו there is no think to do just learn Torah

Married off 5 kids
July 1, 2018 1:19 am

I can assure you and all the other young people out there no one these days cares where or if a bochur or girl went on shluchus . Sure the parents likes to hear that the potential shidduch had been busy and active and doing positive things…..but no one will say no to shidduch beciase of where Ohlei Torah or not sent you on shluchus. Stop banging your head against the wall if that’s one of your concerns. If you stayed in town and helped run a friendship circle or similar or helped someone for a year with a need… Read more »

OT needs fixing
July 1, 2018 1:19 am

If there was no shlichus following shiur daled OT would hardly have students for shiur daled. look what happened to shiur alef and beis. They had no students until they did some serious fixing and the same in OT Mesivta. The only reason they get away with shiur daled is the shlichus draw

July 1, 2018 1:07 am

Great post, but I disagree that new schools would remain empty because parents would fear marginalization. Nope. Not anymore. Most parents are smarter now. In fact, I would argue that there would be WAITING LISTS for these schools!

It’s just that funds are always limited. That’s the deterrent. But parents would send. Look at the ads in frum magazines. Options! Options! We need more competition all around!

Cultural Shift
July 1, 2018 1:03 am

It sounds like Lubavitch, and probably the frum world in general, needs to move out of a post-Holocaust survival mode. Beforehand the focus lay, rightfully so, in rebuilding the institutions that were destroyed. Unfortunately in the process it got over-democratized: any Jewish body was needed to fill the yeshiva and promote their agenda, regardless of personal ability or aspiration. B”H we Jews have replenished our numbers. But as frum society matures, it has become more diverse. Not everyone fits into one category. Not all boys — or girls — belong on shlichus. (Ditto kollel, for Litvish communities.) Unfortunately, as the… Read more »

Follow the money
July 1, 2018 1:01 am

This is where OT makes its money. Shiur Daled

Spend a Shabbos in Wilkes
July 1, 2018 12:57 am


You’re invited to spend a Shabbos at Bais Menachem in Wilkes-Barre. Summer is a good time to visit as well.

Shiur Daled in Montreal
July 1, 2018 12:39 am

What about the ZAL in MONTREAL A very good caring Yeshiva

Good father
July 1, 2018 12:34 am

He wrote the right thing now

Just a word about gezh btw..
July 1, 2018 12:32 am

If your son disnt get accepted and youre gezh, then imagine how hard it is to get in if you’re not gezh. Gezh people can literally wear jeans and do who knows what, and someone whos not gezh can be a real chassidishe Yid, but didn’t get accepted to yeshivos or get RESPONSES to shidduch inquiries. Chas vesholom, should a child who’s parents are divorced, get a normal shidduch offer. The child is obviously abc.. try divorce and not gezh.. not worth the time of day in Lubavitch. Kol hakavod to the gezh families. Your grandparents sat in jail for… Read more »

July 1, 2018 12:30 am

You are so eloquent, its amazing, what a gift you have! Please continue this conversation, change needs to happen What about curriculum? as a mother of four boys who went to Oholei Torah, I would like to see a better curriculum, besides for the regular learning, for all boys Yeshivas. If your goal is to ‘make’ Shluchim, how about classes and workshops on Public Speaking? writing proper English? or a class on how to answer difficult G-d related and Yiddishkeit foundational questions. Are you so sure the bochurim have all this figured out for themselves (let alone to go and… Read more »

Round of applause!
June 30, 2018 11:43 pm

Thank you for writing this! We couldn’t agree more. Our son skipped shiur daled in favor of a shlichus/ Simcha program and we couldn’t be happier. We hope with more bochrim choosing other options it will become more the norm then the “path out” —yes, the train station analogy is completely accurate!

to #18 and 28
June 30, 2018 11:36 pm

I think the point he is trying to make is that if a new location or two open up, and gear their curriculum in a proper way, then the boys will want to go there. the only reason they currently don;t is because of the stigma that they need to go on shlichus (which OT and MT control). Competition is very much needed. To those that say they OT was a great year of their life, I think the article addressed that. But as a former and current OT parent, I fully agree that it is nothing more than a… Read more »

I beg to differ
June 30, 2018 11:19 pm

You mention many good points, however there are many bochurim that go to Oholei Torah and have an amazing year in learning and self discovery. There are also many bochurim who have their own path; go to LA for shiur daled, go straight to smicha etc.
Oholei Torah has many young hanhalah, and has a mashpiah and magid shiur for approximately every 30 bochurim which is equal to pretty much every Yeshivah out there.
I do believe bochurim should pave their own path, but the option is already out there.

This System is messed up !!
June 30, 2018 11:15 pm

The yeshiva system in Crown Heights is terrible and I fear for my children when they get older. I know firsthand of good kids who were rejected by the schools and that was the beginning of their downfall. And this is not in the past, it’s happening now. There is a boy that comes from a troubled family but he proved himself worthy of a spot in yeshiva. However, the Rosh Yeshiva saw him wearing a kippah that was not the color black and decided not to accept him. This is not a high-level yeshiva. It’s an average one. To… Read more »

in fairness to OT
June 30, 2018 10:58 pm

My son went to Oholei Torah this year and had a wonderful year! He felt cared for and he recived individual attention. They had a great program. Thanks to Rabbi N. Deitsch for the kochos he put in to shiur alef and bais.

Great. And..
June 30, 2018 10:45 pm

I enjoyed the writer’s ability to convey thoughts in logical and articulate presentation. And I share some of the writer’s sentiments and in general the frustration of an old system that doesn’t meet the current needs.. The solution tho – that there should be more shiur daleds and launching pads is a familiar and impotent solution. Writing that someone else should open schools is a short term way to solve a problem. Very short term. As long as it takes to write it. And the writer feels accomplished? To solve the yeshiva issue requires doers not just idea makers. Is… Read more »

Time to fix the yeshivas
June 30, 2018 10:42 pm

Its about time our yeshivas became a place that taught bochurim how to learn and to appreciate learning beiyun. Not only a way station for most and a place of learning if you are really motivated. Di you ever see the ads in the frum magazines for other yeshivas. They realize there is competition so they advertise what they have to offer. Our yeshivas take for granted they will get talmidim so they dont have to offer anything. Do our bochurim take with them a geshmack in learning for a lifetime or is it just come to seder so you… Read more »

June 30, 2018 10:39 pm

It is probably a good idea to speak for yourself, in this case and in general. Ot was arguably my best year of yeshiva

June 30, 2018 10:38 pm

incorrect gezhe on all sides. my boys were told to go else where, even though they went from preschool all the way

former ot bachur
June 30, 2018 10:22 pm

everyone goes to ot for shlichus only. problem is theres nothing else to do. and smicha is not a legitimate option.

To #5
June 30, 2018 10:20 pm

#5,it’s quite simple. You are the problem. Thank you for making that absolutely crystal clear

Chovevi bocher
June 30, 2018 10:18 pm

Best yeshiva they won’t turn ur son down they actually care for the bochor not just a number

To #5
June 30, 2018 10:11 pm

To #5 If you had an ounce of the integrity or wisdom of the writer whom you choose to attack and to lecture with a total lack of respect (does your learning or knowledge equal his) . . . if you had an ounce of his integrity, you would sign your name and announce yourself. My suspicion is that you couldn’t disclose your name, because if you did, your entire diatribe would self-destruct. ! והמבין יבין Also, I just wanted to ask you for some clarity. Are you comparing the very esteemed ‘staff of OT’ to the Rebbe’s Heavenly existence?… Read more »

June 30, 2018 10:04 pm

the ones who writes these articles or the ones who comment on them it’s like a therapy session it’s nice there’s a place for people to vent and get it off their shoulders and feel better because at the end of the day none of this will change anything.

one big bubble!!!
June 30, 2018 9:52 pm

Ohlei Torah zal is 95% shiur daled and all there only for shlichus!!!
MOST don’t believe it’s the best Yeshiva for themselves!
It’s a BUBBLE waiting to burst!!!!

The HANHLA is frightened about what this article can do!!
With people realizing what a corrupt system it is!

Does not compute
June 30, 2018 9:46 pm

Firstly, is this implying that the root of bochrim getting not getting accepted because of shlichus? Because shlichus aside, ot zal is bursting at the seams. Correlation of two instances of high demand and limited supply != causation. Secondly why does this article and the last keep referencing ‘aging staff’? Yes, there are some staff who are over sixty, several staff under forty. Which age would you like the staff to be in your yeshiva? Is it inherently bad to have more experienced staff, or must they go once they hit 35? But most importantly, whatever your preference is, it… Read more »

June 30, 2018 9:44 pm

It is a huge problem among the girls as well. Not enough high schools and not enough choices. Too many girls that don’t fit the mold here. If someone took responsibility for the financial aspect, I would start a high school immediately.

June 30, 2018 9:36 pm

Divide the Shlichus year into 2 segments:
1/2 the bochurim go on shlichus for 6 months
1/2 the bochurim stay in their original yeshiva and learn (s’micha?) 6 months

and then rotate the following 6 months.

To #5
June 30, 2018 9:33 pm

Very well said!
if a bachur wants to learn, he can do it anywhere, if he’s not interested in learning he doesn’t belong in yeshiva, any parent who disagrees is paying money to abuse their child.

Solution please
June 30, 2018 9:10 pm

what would you propose as a solution?

Very Interesting!
June 30, 2018 9:10 pm

A lot of good points to consider,
something also to consider is that the Rebbe said everyone is a shaliach in 1991 so this is something that bocharim can think about whatever yeshiva they choose to go to!

So beautiful
June 30, 2018 8:55 pm

Thank you. This is a refreshing perspective and so very true.

Nailed it
June 30, 2018 8:53 pm

I’ve been struggling to find the words but you did it. It’ll take time maybe even generations but we have to try and give everyone an equal platform for growth with out knocking their reputation and confidence. #it’ll never happen!

"the Rebbe's mosdos"
June 30, 2018 8:44 pm

The Rebbe gave them the burden and responsibility to live up to his directives. That doesn’t mean they can do whatever they want and tell students you have to go in order to fulfill the rebbe even though they aren’t. Students have their own burden and responsibility only to go a yeshiva that is actually following the Rebbe’s directives.

to the Writer from an old Guy
June 30, 2018 8:42 pm

Hey my name is Mendy bloom Im in my late 60s i was one of the few who the Rebbe said to go to Bochrim shlichus so the whole trend happende after us i Totaly agree with u that this is not what the rebbe wantend that kids should be rejected from yeshivah

June 30, 2018 7:36 pm



June 30, 2018 4:00 pm

First of all for having the courage to attach your name to this,
Second, this is the first time I’ve ever ever seen someone offer a real solution, not just bashing, and blaming
I agree with everything
Maybe we have what to learn from the Israeli yeshivas
After zal they come to NY for kvutza, a whole year by the Rebbe, they don’t do shlichus

Simply a supply & demand imbalance...
June 30, 2018 2:43 pm

In the entire religious Jewish community.
Modern Orthodox, Yeshivish, and Chassidish.
KA”H the frum Jews grew faster than the infrastructure, which unfortunately leads to lack of space. Will take time to catch up. Law of unintended consequences…
Teaneck, NJ

there are plenty of bochurim that love OT
June 30, 2018 2:03 pm

the only reason why everyone you spoke to felt that OT wasnt actually the place for them was because you probably spoke only to people who had the same bad experience. people that had good experiences probably wouldnt bother with you because they are not bitter and have better things to do with their time. and plus, if no one like OT, why are you so upset that your son didnt get in, and why was he trying so hard to get in? you said before that after publishing your article and getting tons of whatsapps you realized that “suddenly… Read more »

Went to chovevei...
June 30, 2018 6:20 am

Had an amazing year + got amazing shlichus!

June 30, 2018 3:13 am

This is words of truth. Acceptance of each other and valueing them and myself enough not to care about these labels you speak of is the most positive change I can attempt.

June 29, 2018 11:01 pm

This is so refreshing! For a variety of reasons, necessary shifts/changes have not occurred. We have very intelligent adults, whom I believe can make a difference NOW. Taking this issue on will take work, yes, but I believe it will be worth it. Yes, the Rebbe would want that we should do the best for our children, and yes the Rebbe would be responsive to the times. It is always necessary to address such important issues as we grow. And grow we have! But let’s adjust and respond with honesty and determination before this problem becomes part of a growth… Read more »

June 29, 2018 9:13 pm

I agree with everything you said except for the end. You are not a nobody, but a very learned individual and big baal tzedakah but in a quiet way. I have gained alot from what you have to offer.

a CA Shliach