לכבוד הרה”ת וכו’ וכו’
מו”ה ברוך אבערלאנדער
גאב”ד ורב דקהילת חברה ש”ס ליובאוויטש
Dear Rabbi Oberlander, שיחי’
This is not the proper forum in which Rabbonim should argue their differences in Halacha. However, you have seen fit to call me out on a number of points. Perhaps I can assist with some clarifications and set the record straight.
My original overview on Eruvin, written in 1988 under the direction of Rabbi Yitzchok Groner, Head Shliach and Rav of the Melbourne Yeshiva community, was a direct response to a non Halachically sound Eruv that had been established in Melbourne. This journal was then re-edited and reissued some 18 years later as a more generic overview of the Halachos of citywide Eruvin and the direct references to Melbourne were omitted.
In your letter, you allege I deliberately concealed critical details regarding the Eruv that provided the Rebbe’s basis for the rejection of the Eruv in Melbourne. It is beyond me to understand how something so matter of fact as repurposing a publication for a different audience becomes imbued with conspiratorial overtones.
What your response did make me realize is that the collective Rabbonim are laboring under a misapprehension. It is clear the Rabbonim have based the psak and the understanding of the Rebbe’s intent on the assumption that the Rebbe’s answer to Melbourne was in response to the problematic Eruv.
In fact, the Rebbe’s answer to all the Rabbonim of Melbourne (not just Rabbi Groner) predates the establishment of the initial Melbourne Eruv by a number of years. The Rebbe’s advice and counsel was sought by Rabbi Groner on behalf of all Rabbonim of Melbourne when a Melbourne Eruv existed in concept only. The Rebbe’s forthright response to even the idea of an Eruv in Melbourne deterred the Rabbonim at the time and the proposal was only revived some years later.
It is misleading to interpret the Rebbe’s reservations regarding an Eruv in Melbourne as having issues with Eruv boundaries, government permission, continual oversight, or the like. At the time of receipt of the Rebbe’s answer, no thought had yet been given to the Eruv’s construction and what the boundaries might be. The Rebbe’s answer – מפורסמת דעתי is a general response regarding citywide Eruvin, and not a response to concerns regarding Melbourne in particular.
Furthermore, following the construction of the legitimate Halachically kosher Eruv in Melbourne under the auspices of Rabbi Shimon Eider a”h, Rabbi Mottel Gutnick, who was then Rav of a community in Doncaster, a Melbourne suburb not contiguous to the newly established kosher Eruv, was inspired to establish a similar Kosher Eruv in his neighborhood.
Rabbi Gutnick wrote to the Rebbe that an Eruv would mitigate the Chillul Shabbos that was prevalent in his community. Rabbi Gutnick also emphasized to the Rebbe that the existence of an Eruv would be a catalyst to promote Shmiras Shabbos in Doncaster.
The Rebbe, in his response, circled the words לבנות ערוב, and added “ומה מכריחו להכנס לזה?! ידוע השקו”ט המסובכת בזה.” The Rebbe did not advise Rabbi Gutnick to consult experts and build an Eruv, despite Rabbi Gutnick’s best intentions. The Rebbe’s response speaks for itself.
In addition to the printed and vetted sources that I provided in my earlier letter, I refer you to the sefer Junior Code of Law, page 206, written by R’ Nissan Mindel and edited by the Rebbe. The Rebbe initiates discussion regarding an Eruv by stating it is a Mitzva to build an Eruv, and according to Shulchan Aruch where an Eruv can be built it should be built.
The Rebbe continues, “Secondly, special consideration has to be given to the state of affairs and attitudes in respect of the observance of the Mitzvas in the present day and age which has a particular bearing to the problem under discussion. I have in mind the precaution where such an Eruv calls for under the best of circumstance and certainly here and now against the possibility of the Eruv becoming Possul… In view of the above, it is an absolute necessity in my opinion that the Eruv, if one is feasible at all according to Din, should be carried out in the utmost secrecy.”
I will conclude with the following and will no longer be entering into any further public discussion.
Certainly, it is the right (and even a Mitzvah based on Shulchan Aruch and multiple sources) for every Rav and Rabbinical Council to establish an Eruv in their city, town or suburb. And it is the right of every person to carry within the boundaries of an halachically approved Eruv. But for a Rav and a Rabbinical Council to imply that a contemporary city Eruv has the Haskama and Bracha of the Rebbe is false and misleading. The Rebbe’s stance on city Eruvin is well known, and for a Chosid, that is the only measure that matters.
I ask again, for the benefit of all Chasidim, if anyone has further answers from the Rebbe regarding city Eruvin, to please publicize them now.
א גוטען מועד
הרב מאטל קראסניאנסקי
RELATED ARTICLES:
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+ Response to Landmark Eruvin Approval by Chabad Rabbis
+ Chabad Rabbis Issue Landmark Statement About Eruvin
Thank you Rabbi Krasnjanski for sharing the Rebbe’s opinion as it is, without ‘reinterpretation.’
thay obviusly took of all the thumbs up
What does that mean?
There is no proof the Rebbe edited the entire code, only several pages of it (and random pages that were in the Talks and Tales).
The response is clear to Rabbi Gutnick, this is not for him, as he does not know these properly, and should leave it to others who do know it.
If the Rebbe edits something then the whole thing is edited.
If you were to edit it then you were to be correct.
Are you Lubavitch???
The Rebbe’s response to R’ Gutnick doesn’t require your “boich sevoros” in order to be understood.
dont make excuses for the rebbe if he felt he should edit the whole thing he would of, you think the rebbe didnt know?
Approved or encouraged?
What’s a better word.
This is how a rov writes, with respect, to the point, and without cheap personalized shtoching. Kol hakovod.
Clear as day, not withstanding the importance of an eruv, it does not have the rebbe’s approval
If the 16 rabbonim feel a need to establish eruvin they should do so, but no need to claim the rebbe approves or to place pressure on others to do the same.
Each community & city is different and most likely none of the 16 rabbonim would be happy if others would interfere in their city or kehilla.
Wait a minute! Bichlal, Australia is a place where it is uncertain which day is actually shabbos!
The halachic dateline has various opinions (including opinion of Rebbe, Chazon Ish, Rav Hertzog and other poskim).
How can you build a shita on eruv from a place that shabbos is uncertain to teach on an eruv on places that shabbis is certain?!
Apples and oranges.
Oh, that’s why many of the 16 signatories are roshei yeshivos, that are experts in pilpul, rather than rabbonim, that practice halacha lemaaseh.
C’mon you can do better than this lol
Nonsense.
Wow! Amazing point. Upon reading the first two paragraphs of your post, I thought to myself, wow, this guy is dumb.
But you nailed it in the past paragraph.
Evidently, the thumb downers had no idea what you are saying…
While the opinions based on the Baal Hama’or (except the Chazon Ish) say Melbourne and Sydney are on the wrong side of the dateline, they are a small minority and in practice nobody takes them into account at all. Certainly no Lubavitchers, but I’ve never heard of anyone at all who refrains from melacha on Sundays. The most I’ve heard is that there are some who are choshesh for the Chazon Ish, and therefore don’t go boating on a Sunday. And I doubt there are more than a handful of such people, if any. Likewise I’ve never heard of any… Read more »
Are we supposed to take your word for it? Why is there no letter or sicha about this?
it was a letter to rabbi gutnick and i dont think the rebbe would want it to be publicised
Beautifully written!
Factual and to the point.
Thank you for giving clarity on the topic.
if you are a lubavitcher and follow the alter rebbe you wouldt carry the “lubavitchers ” that use it are going against the alter rebbe and are not lubavitch
Where did you get the idea that Lubavitchers should not carry in any eruv? The Alter Rebbe merely says that, although the halacha is not like the Rambam, we should be machmir like him and not carry in an eruv that is not kosher according to him. But if an eruv is kosher even according to the Rambam there is no reason for Lubavitchers not to carry there.
It’s high time that people who support the Rebbe’s ideas take a stance. For too long, people who are motivated only by personal interest (in this case, to carry on Shabbos R”L) have been calling the shots. They’ve been influencing our young and vulnerable, and recently, they have even started influencing some of our esteemed rabbonim. These days, it’s been quite hard to know which rav to trust, and this is especially true with many rabbonim making medical decisions for us, recommending that we inject poison into our bodies… Thank you Rabbi Krasnianski for standing up for what’s right; for… Read more »
Are you saying that anti-eruv is like anti-vaxxers?
Doctors decide medical issues.
Rabbonim decide halachic issues.
Roshei yeshivos decide signing onto Kol Korei proclamations about anything.
Reb Motel Shlit’a You are 100% right that this is not the forum for such a discussion to take place. However you correctly responded to Rabbi Oberlander’s position. People should not assume if there will be a Rabbinic response to what Reb Motel has written and he does not respond (as he said he will not and I hope he doesn’t) is by any means a suggestion that Reb Motel has no halachic sound response. If someone is sincere about understanding the Rebbe’s position on a city eiruv they should contact Reb Motel directly. The only reason Reb Motel penned… Read more »
I have read some אגרות קדש to Australia And I’m aware of some answers My humble conclusion this is an Australian thing It is not possible that the rebbe should discourage a הלכה in ש׳ע I saw an answer where the rebbe encourages a היתר מכירה for businesses etc. (It could be in Australia the rebbe didn’t want Lubavitcher rabonim to take a leading roll in the עירוב as we see with the gutnik answer was directed at HIS leadership in the עירוב) Rabbi oberlander makes a strong case And I personally feel as crown hights is today they should… Read more »
If you’d like an eiruv find yourself a rov who says it’s ok. Don’t try to twist the Rebbe’s words so you can pay yourself on the head like a tattelle that it’s all mehudar and that you’re a true chossid
the rebbe btw i dont know if you know but FYI the rebbe is also a rav and its not posible to make eruv according to the alter rebbe in crown hights if you dont know halachos dont speak
if you dont know halacha why speak?
according to the alter rebbe its not possible to make an eruv in crown hights do you follow the alter rebbe?
According to the Alter Rebbe its certainly possible to make an eruv in Crown Heights. It’s even possible to make an eruv that a Lubavitcher can carry in. But even the current eruv is kosher according to the Alter Rebbe, he would just recommend that one shouldn’t use it.
You absolutely never learned the alter rebbe shulchan aruch. The alter rebbe paskens you can make a eruv anywhere.
Nobody asked you for your opinion, since you’re not a posek and not even a ch resident
There is an eruv in Crown Heights, whether the Lubavitcher rabbonim like it or not. It is perfectly kosher according to the halacha, but not according to the minority opinion of the Rambam, so lechatchila a Lubavitcher should not carry in it, but if you did end up carrying by mistake, don’t worry about it. And those who do choose to carry in it are not breaking shabbos.
It’s according to the Rambam too, since we have רוב מחיצות with מחיצות הבתים
Typically, A Rav that voices his opinion contradictory to that of a Shchuna With a Sitting בית דין especially where other neighborhoods look to for guidance
That particular Outside Rav Appears to be Missing The ‘Fifth’ Cheilik of שלחן ערוך, we applaud Mottel Krasiansky for his Stand up opinion,
by the way, one of the points said by the rebbe about not making public an eruv. is that the people in charge of the eruv now . are not going to be alive forever. who knows who will be in charge later (eruvin were made all along, only where there was an very establihed community with a system of continuos rabonim etc. the same thing goes for the population. one canot be sure what kind of people will be living in the place served by eruv, and how will they react when an announcement is made that there is… Read more »
I personally recall when hurricane Sandy hit and took down the eruv in long island. My father and I were walking to mikvah and saw numerous people leaving their houses with talis bag in hand. When told that the eruv was down, all except one shrugged it off. Frumme yidden who could not even comprehend the possibility of not carrying on Shabbos
After reading this, it is clear that the rabbonim who issued this “landmark” approval claiming the support of the Rebbe didn’t do their homework before signing their names unto the paper. The lesson here is that Rabbonim are human and can make mistakes. Many great Rabbonim believed that Shabsai Tzvi was Moshiach and they were wrong. Let’s all have some humility, ahavas Yisroel to our fellow man, and Daven for Moshiach to come soon!
A Rov needs to be sure of himself when he Paskens to be meikel. He doesn’t get to base his opinion on Pshetlach because they sound correct. This isn’t an argument between Rabbonim. It’s a Rov who stands up for what’s right against people who signed a Kol Koreh against the Rebbe. And yes, although Rabbi Tziner signed it, I would have to believe that he was mislead by people with and agenda. Additionally, the Rebbe had a derech – part of which was to encourage people to do good things. Just because he may have encouraged an Eruv that… Read more »
Everything Rav Krasnjanski is saying in reference to the Eiruv in Melbourne and the Rebbe’s response to the thought of establishing an Eiruv in Melbourne is true correct and precise.
Also the Rebbe’s clear stand and statement to Melbourne is applicable and is to be considered worldwide based on the Rebbe’s reasoning.
Much more than that.
EVERY SINGLE person that I knew growing up that always said “they held of the eruv” , every time in camp (outside of the small eruv inside the camp grounds) or a different city where there was no eruv, they would still say “well I hold of the eruv” and they would continue to carry. And you can’t say so every place should make a eruv- because that’s impossible and unfortunately most places in the world once looked into, their eruv isn’t properly kosher or not checked enough.
Because I’m an anonymous collive poster
Thank you rabbi krasjananski for making it clear and helping people understand.
A local resident of crown heights
before one argues about the meaning of a private response of the rebbe to someone reguarding eruvin (especially when u dont even know what the question was) , u should atleast know the basic halochos and clear sources quoted by the rebbe. as the rebbe reacted very sharply when someone claimed the rebbe disagreed with halocho.
Call the Rabbonim that signed that kol koreh. I heard from 6 of them personally that they were misled about the contents of the letter when they signed. What is ridiculous is that none of them announced this publicly.
Here we have another
16 Rabbonim says the Rebbe says this , other 16 will say the Rebbe meant the opposite
Come on
Each BD should decide what’s going on in his city
People, many of the 16 signatories are NOT practicing rabbonim. They are roshei yeshivos. True they give great shiyurim, but they are not poskum! Missing are the many of the senior experienced Rabbonei Lubavitch of America and Eretz Yisroel! Missing are the Badatz of CH! Instead, the 16 are a collection of Roshei Yeshivos, a handful of rabbonim, some junior in experience, one or 2 senior rabbonim, inxluding a non-chabad. THAT sums uo the 16. Kol hakovod for Reb Mottel for standing up to emes.
It’s so hard to be stuck in a small apartment and not able to go for a fresh air with a baby …and yes we don’t have big bobby house here to be invited to enjoy the Shabbes.
Basically some women are home for many years..
Why it’s so difficult for me and no one to talk to?
it seems that we are just supposed to go on mesirus nefesh and it doesn’t matter how much we suffer.
We have local rabonim and they will decide. No need for “outsiders” to pontificate in this Public forum
Is the issue of eruv SUCH a pressing and urgent issue that requires 16 talmidei chachomim to stop all other activities and issue a proclimation?!
Is this eruv business a mivtza like the mivtzoyim? Is this hafotzas hamayonos? Where is this eruv “mivtza” coming from?
Forget shidduch crisis. Forget kids OTD. Forget tuition crisis. Forget all issues that need attention. Be ause the ONE think Lubavitch needs right now is…eruv in every community. Really?
The Baal Shem Tov teaches us “ואמר ששמע בשם הבעש”ט ז”ל פי הפ’ בזע”ם תצעד ארץ זעם ר”ת זביחה עירובין מקוואות שע”י דברים אלו תצעד ותתייסד הארץ” that eruvin is from the three yesodos of the world(torah).
and women were allowed to go outside even with little babies, people would be happier in general and then happier about their yiddishkeit. It’s hard for us nowadays to be stuck inside, it takes away the joy of Shabbos. Sometimes in the long summer shabbosim I would dread shabbos. That is a serious issue that is worth consideration and not just brushing it off with “we go on mesirus nefesh”. Not everyone has family in the community and can just stay with family. Sometimes we are all alone and it is very hard.
The Rebbe’s answer – מפורסמת דעתי means that his opinion is well known… When this topic was raised a few years ago, in addition to the halachic prohibition mentioned by ALL crown heights Rabbonim… Reb Yoel Kahn and Reb Leibel Groner each wrote letters stating unequivocally that the Rebbe was against an eiruv in large cities… no need to take my word as both letters were published right here on col. Who else is more qualified to tell us what the Rebbe’s opinion is if not Reb Yoel and Rabbi Groner?!!! The Rebbe said mefursemes daati… does it makes sense… Read more »
I see everyone quoting from the Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch that in our times there is NO Reshuh Harabim Mideoraisa.
Listen to this Sicha (link below) – where the Rebbe seems to say that this has in fact changed in our times…
https://www.chabad.org/therebbe/article_cdo/aid/554143/jewish/12-Tammuz-5745-Sicha-4.htm
begin listening at 28:15 minutes into the sicha