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Monday, 15 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 20, 2019

    What do we do With Her?

    From the COLlive Inbox: A Crown Heights mother is in distress over her rebellious daughter who came back from seminary, and is constantly clashing with her husband. Full Story

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    husband?
    Guest
    husband?

    “in my house everyone follows my rules”
    i dont quite think his attitude will help at all
    does he want to have his house with his rules… but without his daughter?

    yalili
    Guest
    yalili

    maybe she should try yalili

    talking from experinece
    Guest
    talking from experinece

    wow this is very brave of you to post- i firmly believe that this is a huge problem in alot of homes. when the father loses his temper- but it’s coming out of love- not because he chas vshalom hates his child but because he loves her so much. the problem is that the father can’t channel his love correctly- i know because my family is going thru a similiar thing. parents need to try to be as understnanding and loving as possible- even though it is probably the most difficult thing to do. maintaining a open relationship is teh… Read more »

    open to speak
    Guest
    open to speak

    the most essential thing for anything to change, is to have a close relationship with your daughter
    which is probaly not the case b\c other wise it wouldnt have surprise that ”all of asudden she is ”drifting away”.

    anyways nothing will start to be different unless the parents start or develope the close realationship needed for parenting kids for the real world

    response to yalili
    Guest
    response to yalili

    excuse me! i’m not sure if you are trying to be funny or something but this is a serious issue and if you dont have any positive input then don’t say anything and go yalili yourself

    experienced mom
    Guest
    experienced mom

    In my opinion if you throw out a child, you lose them, with little hope of bringing them back either to family or to yiddishkeit.
    Show her all the TLC you can while letting her know that her behavior is hurting you very much.
    Fighting in the home will only make the situation worse.
    You don’t mention other children, but in a close knit, loving family, the others will usually back you up and even be stronger and have more influence on the one rebelling.

    Done
    Guest
    Done

    Its done. Cant reverse it. She is the way she is. May be through being a living example of what a frum jew is she”ll look “up” to you.

    Bais Chana
    Guest
    Bais Chana

    has helped many in this situation.
    Give it a try.

    bechukoisai
    Guest
    bechukoisai

    Maybe read to her what it says in parshas bechukoisai.

    An Honest Question
    Guest
    An Honest Question

    With no simple answers. So many of us seem in the exact same position… don’t want to throw a child out…but how can you keep a child home who blatantly disregards rules and standards.? how to inspire them towards yiddishkeit in general and snius in particular? do we preserve the relationship and sacrifice standards? is that just taking as easy route? what works? Please, as a community, as friends, as family, as professionals, more attention needs to be focused on this very urgent problem. these are the girls who will soon be raising the next generation.

    Let her be ... Gently guide her
    Guest
    Let her be ... Gently guide her

    The worst thing you can do is kick her out. The psychological affects of this will be devastating. If you care about her Yidishkit you will keep her in the home where you have at least some monitoring abilities but most important where you can continue showing her unwavering support. Good luck

    vary sad
    Guest
    vary sad

    i thing you should throw her out of the house

    The solution is to be sincere
    Guest
    The solution is to be sincere

    As a male that took the path of your daughter albeit younger, its the emes that brought me and many others back. We see the world, its falseness, the betrayal by supposed friends, fake and shallow relationship’s… the depression, drugs and suicide… And then I look at the yideshkeit we abandoned, the penimiyus, the hislahabus.. the joy.. the emes.. Ultimately that is what draws us back.. A non jewish friend of mine and I were discussing chabad, she was saying that her many chabad “off the bath” friends live with regret and will at the end go back one day..… Read more »

    Your Daughter is hurting
    Guest
    Your Daughter is hurting

    But its not your fault. You say that all of this started when your daughter came home from Seminary. My advice would be to sit down with your daughter and talk. Something happened to you daughter while she was away that changed the way she views herself. It could be as simple as having been shunned by her peers or made to feel incompetent by her hanhala. Or something more complex. Whatever it was it wasn’t there before seminary. Something happened that changed your daughter and it is probably hurting her a lot. Help her open up about it, that… Read more »

    the other side...
    Guest
    the other side...

    i am not the mother of a teenager, however being that i was one not so long ago i would just like to offer some advice on how i was able to maintain my yiddishkeit even when some of my best friends were “at risk”. growing up my parents never told me that something was assur, or that i wasnt allowed to do this or that. its not that they didnt care or that they were not strict but by allowing me and my siblings to make our own choices we no longer had the taivos for the not jewish… Read more »

    Been there
    Guest
    Been there

    The answer is simple,, don’t force or shove religion down your daughters throat, when it comes Sukkos and pesach and shabos make this an enjoyable time, not screaming at her why she is eating gebrukhst etc.. you will make it worse by throwing her out of the house and forcing religion down her throat… and is she eats Chalav akum just smile..

    refua shelema
    Guest
    refua shelema

    Moshiach NOW

    Overpay the shadchan and get her married , quick!!!
    Guest
    Overpay the shadchan and get her married , quick!!!
    oyshhhh!
    Guest
    oyshhhh!

    so scary, when girls are given “freedom”, so many girls i know just lose it as soon as they gain a little independence. good to get married early…
    may Hashem help you with this difficult period, of course the way to ultimately keep her is to show her love but thats really hard, i dont blame your husband for being intolerant, its good that you are not both showing anger

    I feel for you May Hashem have rachmones on you
    Guest
    I feel for you May Hashem have rachmones on you

    I feel for you. May Hashem have Rachmones on you, and give you lots of Nachas from all your family. This is not something that could be answerd over the internet. You should seek help from a profetional who you feel comfortable with. Or maybe go to some one like Levi Gurelick who might able to help you or at least give you a little direction who you should go do.
    Hatzlocheh Rabboh

    shame
    Guest
    shame

    My advice would be to leave your daughter be. She is a young Women who with Gds help will get married soon to a nice guy of her choosing. Threatening to kick her out of the house and screaming at the top of your lounges will only make the problem worse which will in turn make her never want to return home. As a father of numerous daughters, I would suggest you let her make her own decisions while guiding her in theright direction. In todays times it is harder for children to stay as innocent as in times past.… Read more »

    the job of the father is to show her love
    Guest
    the job of the father is to show her love

    i heard a class from an aducator about how to deal with the teenagers. and she said that the job of the afther is to show her love and the mother to set her limits. and of course leav teh bechira chofshis for her. but ine thing for sure, only with love you can get anything, even if they go far in idishkait, if you are still close to them they can come back. speak to a rav or mashpia. hatzlacha!

    Not Alone
    Guest
    Not Alone

    Dear Mother. You boruch hashem have a wonderful healthy daughter. What she is doing is normal, age appropriate and WRONG. By shouting at her, she hears you saying that she is not normal.. yet her year in sem, and walking down the street tell her that she is normal, and your family is a dysfunctional dictatorship. I would ask you and your husband to go get some help in communication skills. As well ask yourself why does your daughters behavior bother you. is it the shame you feel or is it that you are truly bothered that she is violating… Read more »

    so sad
    Guest
    so sad

    ur nuts im sorry.maybe if u let her live a little more normal before n not always hiding her from the “real” world, u wouldnt have this problem..

    real or what if
    Guest
    real or what if

    Is this a real situation in real life? Or is this a what if situation? What if my daughter came home from seminary and then suddenly changed?

    Respect and love
    Guest
    Respect and love

    People have to realize that their children are not their property to berate and control rather respect them as an individual with their own feelings and perception the Rebbe once told someone before you take away a book from child you should give him another one. The point is respect and communicate your feelings how hurt you feel and why you think this will be to her benefit but rather to her detriment speak to her from your soul to her soul and about the need to value her neshama And pray a lot, with tears, for your child to… Read more »

    THIS IS WHY KIDS FRY OUT
    Guest
    THIS IS WHY KIDS FRY OUT

    If your husband throws her out, she will hate him, and frum people, forever. If you can show her love and acceptance during her years of self-discovery, she may come back around; however she must do so ON HER OWN. She isn’t doing drugs, right? Robbing banks? Okay, she has a laptop now, an iPod…can you put things in perspective here? How much do you love her? Do you want her to hate you and your husband for “forcing” her into a lifestyle she is not fully embracing on her own? Let’s be practical. Here’s what you do: Let the… Read more »

    a suggestion
    Guest
    a suggestion

    It’s very hard to comment from the outside, but I believe that it is pointless to try to force a 19 year old daughter to comply. For one thing, she’s enjoying the havoc she creates in the family. She knows what is expected of her and why, and if she wants to kick at the fences for a while, I think you just have to be loving and accepting, as best as you can. If the home is a battleground, it gives her the excuse to rebel. If she finds her family a haven of unconditional love, perhaps she will… Read more »

    Bais Chana
    Guest
    Bais Chana

    there is a wonderful program known as Bais Chana, for women, which women and girls from all walks of life, ages, and stages, benefit from on a daily basis. find a bais chana program that best suits the needs of you and your daughter, and spend some time there either together, or separately. Believe me, it will do wonders, helping both of you to connect with yourselves, each other, and Yiddishkeit/Hashem on a very deep level.
    baischana.org

    Love
    Guest
    Love
    Love
    Guest
    Love

    before you do anything you need to explain to your husband that throwing your daughter out will only make things worse.
    he should show her love and respect first once that is established and she knows she has parents that care you can work on the other stuff, but she has to know she has parents who love her and respect her

    Yosef B.
    Guest
    Yosef B.

    The bottom line is that you have to embrace your child. She is growing and finding her identity. If there is a battle then she will distance herself from the family. In a loving way you have to be there for her. If you can! Then subtly turn her back to the truth of our religion. But anything forceful will not work. On the contrary,

    You may not want to hear it.
    Guest
    You may not want to hear it.

    My advice (as someone who has been through this exact struggle as a teen) is make sure you show your daughter you love her. I find it sad that your husband would prefer to throw your daughter out of the house rather than face his “failure” as a parent. This is where pride will take you. The most important thing is that you make sure your daughter feels welcome in her own home. Judaism has to be a happy focus in her life…..not an issue of contention. She will HATE Yiddishkeit if that’s what she feels tore her from her… Read more »

    Throw her out?
    Guest
    Throw her out?

    Is that dad fit to be a father? He wants to throw his daughter out? Give her some love, dad, so you can earn the right to be a father. If you had a good and close relationship with her, those thoughts and words would never cross your mind – or hers. Shape up, and she will shape up. Show some love and care. And if you don’t get through to her, at least she knows that you care about her, and when she’s done with her wildness she will still be a daughter because you are a father.

    Ok, heres what I think
    Guest
    Ok, heres what I think

    Saying that she went to a good seminary, apparently doesnt make a difference because 1. she didnt grow 2. she was independent enough to start slacking off. Another factor: She has been in highschool and living at home until she left for a year. She grew up, she wants to be more free. She is 1 after all, and I am guessing seminary didnt help her grow or strengthen herself. She is 19 yet she lives at home. Do you want her to leave? Then tell her its time you rent your own apt (being that she has enough money… Read more »

    Oh! how I wish i had the answer.....
    Guest
    Oh! how I wish i had the answer.....

    I have the same in my home. Although my husband seems more tolerent than yours. Sometimes I think it is the “freedom” of being away from home when they go to Sem, and of course the girls who they are gravatating to while they are there. I wish you hatzlocho and just bite your tongue when you are going to shout at her

    Educate her through love not through fear
    Guest
    Educate her through love not through fear

    First of all I would say to tell your husband to stop yelling at her. Educate her through love not through fear. Complement her on the good things she does. And most importantly, build up her self-esteem.

    It’s time to let her make her own choices. Hopefully she will respect you and your views.

    Why re-invent the wheel??
    Guest
    Why re-invent the wheel??

    Here are tips from an expert on matters such as these: 1) Resist all temptation to debate, argue, criticize or preach! 2) Spend at least 30min each day, tunning-in to the chinuch of your children, Thinking of ways how to be a better Parent to your child. this exercise effectively highlights problems eons before its too late. 3) Teach-by-example: Say no to YOUR peer pressure, Push beyond YOUR comfort zone, work on YOUR own emotions, temper, weaknesses which can be improved, Exemplify self restraint in your personal nature, 4) Unconditional-Love: Practice Ahavas yisroel as defined in Tanya 32 5) Unconditional-Respect:… Read more »

    been therer done that
    Guest
    been therer done that

    just let the poor girl live …. leave her alone and give her space coming home from sem is hard enough as it is …. your doughter is just trying to find her self , so let her do that be there to guid her when she askes u and just give her all the love she needs … and what ever you do DO NOT THROW HER OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!! u will losse her and trust me there is nothuing in the world more painfull for both of u

    if u aint real... if u aint happy... SORRY!
    Guest
    if u aint real... if u aint happy... SORRY!

    Why do you want her to be “frum”?? What does she sense is you underlying motive?? Does she sense that you fear being embarrassed to your friends? …Does she sense perhaps that somewhere deep down there is some envy (Subconsciously at least)?? Your motive must be 10000% purely about HER happiness! Namely, that you wish for her to be “Frum” bec you want her to be Happy now & Latter. That you recognize that a jewish soul will forever feel lacking until its actions-lifestyle are aligned with its inner-core identity. The reason you want her to be frum is bec… Read more »

    WOW #38
    Guest
    WOW #38

    the “expert” is our rebbe? very clever!

    Smell the Coffee
    Guest
    Smell the Coffee

    Gosh, With such an intolerant and abusive father and a two-faced mother (from her perspective – remember, she is a human being with feelings and emotions, it’s not all about you, your needs and your wants), it’s no wonder she wouldn’t want to be religious. If she didn’t have a clear reason before, you gave her a nice juicy one. Imposing through aggression and violence or any other manner NEVER leads to a resolution. You have to realize that she is an adult, can make her own decisions and there isn’t much you can do about it legally. If you… Read more »

    SELF ESTEEM!
    Guest
    SELF ESTEEM!

    no self respecting, happy well adjusted girl will crave short skirts etc
    dont you see the red flag!!

    she’s starving, she’s hurting! she’s needy!

    when a girl seeks attention this way, its a desperate cry for help!

    Remember this:
    a women who has a healthy self esteem, who feels intelligent, accomplished & good about herself, will not have the desperate need to degrade her self,
    seeking attention for the wrong reasons.

    what this girl desperately needs is unconditional validation & love from her parents & family or she will god forbid do some very stupid things she will forever regret!

    show more LOVE
    Guest
    show more LOVE

    she is clearly craving fatherly love, tone down the complaints and turn up the love! if you don’t, your daughter’s self esteem will continue to plummet, like soo many women on kingston ave.
    the only antidote to a low self esteem is for fathers to get involved in a loving way with their daughters.

    kingston ave is replete with examples of neglected souls.

    if you dont want your daughter to feel desperate… invest quality time, you’ll see many problems disrepair

    KOL HAKAVOD to comment 38
    Guest
    KOL HAKAVOD to comment 38

    this list should be taught to all couples getting married!!

    Help On The Way
    Guest
    Help On The Way

    I had a similar situation and I had the help from a mechanach who comes to crown heights many times. I think he is doing work at one of our schools. You can get his phone number from any of the schools. His name is Ginsburg and he really helped.

    i agree with all of #38
    Guest
    i agree with all of #38

    the only thing you missed out is, that he explain to her all the blessings that one gets for themselves and children via Tznius,
    focusing on all the positives, the prosperity & nachas etc
    this is far more motivating than anything els

    Self esteem REALLY blame fathers & husbands!
    Guest
    Self esteem REALLY blame fathers & husbands!

    are you saying that 50% of mothers on kingston Ave have self esteem issues,
    if hat were true dont you think they would be embarrassed to advertise it in public?!
    besides if revealing more… makes them feel less bad about themselves, maybe thats ok,

    besides its not their fault they feel so insecure, many men were never trained in yeshivah how to make their wife feel important!

    if you wanto solve the low self esteem problem, fathers and husbands gotto realize that their neglect causes women to feel desperate for the wrong attention!

    Problem solved!
    Guest
    Problem solved!

    it doesnt matter how old you are if you dont like yourself, oyour gonna try everything to fill that void.

    screaming is the problem not the solution

    to make her feel loved special important is the only way to solve the Low self esteem and rebelling

    Fry out
    Guest
    Fry out

    Your attitude will make her fry out like my sister did after sem.
    First care about her as a person, then about the religion and then the religion might have a chance of working.

    At least they are seeking guidance,
    Guest
    At least they are seeking guidance,

    ya gotta give the parents some credit for seeking advice!

    Symptoms!
    Guest
    Symptoms!

    The root cause of 99% of rebels in our community is Inner misery resentment or low-self esteem if it looks like a duke, & quacks like a duke… if she is doing things which offend, degrade, upset etc she is probably bitter, angry, resentful & suffering from low self esteem, the cause to resentment is lack of love! the cause to low self esteem is lack of love attention … if a person eats good quality food, they wont starve & become desperate for trash food, if parents keep depriving their daughters from “healthy” sources of love and positive self… Read more »

    rebellious, thats not the problem!
    Guest
    rebellious, thats not the problem!

    shower them with love doesn’t for a second mean you agree or approve,
    it is possible to make it clear that you adamantly disagree with the actions, but still embrace the person!

    show her love and acceptant she will surely come back!

    they also didnt get love!
    Guest
    they also didnt get love!

    why blame the parents, ppl tend to parent the way they were raised, unless they make a conscious effort to change the cycle

    Shmuli
    Guest
    Shmuli

    DAD – you need tough love – the dad has all the right in the world to set his own rules and to make sure they are followed, especially if there are younger siblings in the house.

    However, the child must always be able to recognize that your rules are with love. – quit the screaming – there is no love in it – just be firm with your demands – and express your love.

    It's easy to give advice! Doing the right thing is hard
    Guest
    It's easy to give advice! Doing the right thing is hard

    Firstly, B”H I never had this problem, so I can’t speak from experience. But as a mother with B”H all frum kids & all Tznius, respectful, married daughters, I suggest the following: HELP HER RENT AN APT…IN CROWN HEIGHTS. Give her space & time on her own. She’s going to cause more strife in the home & it will continue to destroy your family framework. Pay her first month’s rent. Then she’s on her own. Tell her the only thing you ask is that she conducts herself appropriately in public so as not to shame her family. I don’t think… Read more »

    Therapy
    Guest
    Therapy

    It sounds like it may be helpful to engage in some family therapy together, firstly with you and your husband with the therapist so that you can work through some of the pain and disappointment of what happened and come up with the best approach of how to deal going forward, and also if your daughter would agree to attend some sessions with her parents, I think it would be good for everyone to sit down together and work through all their feelings. It would be a good first step. The family relationships need to be healed first to increase… Read more »

    amazinggg inspirational TRUE story
    Guest
    amazinggg inspirational TRUE story

    A shliach was going through a similar situation as yours, his son was completely “off the derech” and things got really bad between the parents and child, so he left his home. One day someone came to the shliach and said “I know you are busy helping so many people all day and helping them in every way you can, is it okay if I send you someone to live in your house for a bout a month, you don’t have to tell him to do anything, all you need to do is give him his meals and food. Don’t… Read more »

    Hatzlocho Raba
    Guest
    Hatzlocho Raba

    Is there a problem with our chinuch her and abroad ???
    Which schools and seminary did she attend ???
    Who are her friends ???
    It is best you sit down with her and have a frank talk to find out what really bothers her there is much more here than what you see

    israel
    Guest
    israel

    Be aware before u send your children to Israel!!! I was there as a student and now as a parent of a teen, it is scary what parents do not know is going on there with the teens!!!There are also many softwares today where you can track every move on labtops from here in in NY , and know if your teen is gettimg into no good. Hatzlocha.

    Your Teenage Niece
    Guest
    Your Teenage Niece

    i once heard a profesional give a very good perspective on this. Make believe your daughter is you niece, cousin or a friend’s kid that is just staying with you for a while. Give her her own space. If your niece was staying with you for a week, would you scream at her because of her cloths? would you threaten to kick her out of the house? No, you would slightly cringe inside and count the days, al the while making sure that you’re polite so that you’re not seen as the “mean aunt”. Why? because you don’t feel like… Read more »

    time
    Guest
    time

    The problem with your daughter isn’t the religious issues-it’s time and BOREDOM. It sounds like your daughter doesn’t have enough to do and is bored. While she was in school, her time was structured. Now there is no structure in her life. She should get a job (even if it means just babysitting or cleaning someone else’s home). Maybe you can speak to people about arranging structured classes for her and her friends.(and maybe heir mothers too).

    your past
    Guest
    your past

    I am not sure what your or your husband’s background is but remembering how you may have been when you were younger may help.

    The Real Why
    Guest
    The Real Why

    i wonder if parents raised our children so differently a generation ago? Wonder why we keep blaming the parents. Aside from how to proceed now, I think we need to recognize that without proper leadership in our community and with the amount of outside influences and the new world of technology that brings ideas into our home, that parents today have a much harder job today and children have more challenges. Most parents that are trying hard, love their kids and set decent examples- oftentimes still have children who may seek ‘other pastures’. and, despite the current trend of thought,… Read more »

    love
    Guest
    love

    as many comments wisely posted, as long as you show your daughter love you won’t lose her…also acting out usually signifies that something is amiss. It could just be confusion about where she want to go in life and seminary just made her more confused, or it could be something deeper then that. Its worth talking to her to try to figure it out.

    whats important
    Guest
    whats important

    LOVE and friendship with your adult child
    LOVE and friendship
    communication
    and sharing information about communication
    your own strength and enthusiasm with Torah and Rebbe.
    At this age, they can choose what they want, but still look towards their parents to see what they are doing.
    Love and positive relationship is really so important. Its the last times you will have to develop it in this way. Once she is iy’h married, it will be different. Use the time wisely and in a happy way.

    To #57
    Guest
    To #57

    Thanks for sharing such a beautiful story, what a great lesson we can learn.
    and i most say to share such inspiration reflects on your great personality,
    keep it going

    You cannot deal with this on your own~
    Guest
    You cannot deal with this on your own~

    get counseling for you and your husband for starters so that you are on the same page! THEN as a unified team you can start dealing with your daughter- there are so many mental health agencies or therapists around that even take medicaid or sliding scale!

    Meir
    Guest
    Meir

    BS:D
    Show her love, be patient-do not fight or scream at her,talk to her calmly and invariably she will grow out of this stage. Every teen rebels,(explores is a more appropriate term )on some level, some more , some less.The present approach will only backfire and is the cause of her further alienatiion from the family and Yiddishkeit

    If one more person talks about self esteem...
    Guest
    If one more person talks about self esteem...

    O please.
    As a member of the untznius generation, I had issues with self esteem for a long long time. And I was never, ever untznius. And trust me, my parents had nothing to do with my desire to stay tznius.
    All the people who scream ‘low self esteem!!!!!’ are just too lazy to figure out what is really going on.

    Frum but cool
    Guest
    Frum but cool

    BS”D I am a Chozer B’Teshuva, Chabad of course :). Currently im 15, and had tons of problems with my Parents similar to her opposite situation. I was hit for not swimming on Shabbos, and had many other episodes erupt in the home that brought a loss of Shalom Bayis and turmoil for the entire family. I came down to this one thing. A person’s Avoidah is expressed through their passions. For instance, I have played guitar for 10 years and am in a band. I love music, and decided to take my path of Avoidas H’ along that road.… Read more »

    marrige!
    Guest
    marrige!

    to # 18 IF she is rebellious and treating her father badly what makes u think she is ready for marriage? she has to work on her problems first!

    i wonder
    Guest
    i wonder

    its not that parenting is so different now then it was 20 or 30 years ago, whats different now is the word, i mean dont get me wring children then went of the derech to but it was all covered up. to day though we have so much tumah in the world and its so much harder to keep your kids safe from it, although i dont agree with the father who wants to kick his daughter out of the house, maybe if they let her move out, she’ll see how tough the real world is and realize that it… Read more »

    Post Sem Dangers
    Guest
    Post Sem Dangers

    My daughter stayed in Sem for 2 years. She was very lost when she returned. The lack of structure and support, after a lifetime in school. It was a hard time for her and she was one of the “top” girls of her day. It is a difficult time for all, regardless of hashkofa. More programs for post sem girls?

    One Piece of advice.....
    Guest
    One Piece of advice.....

    You cannot undue in a short time a problem that has been created in 19 years. Your husbands reactions demonstrates everything your daughter wants to rebel against and proves this is not a new problem, just one that is emerging very late in the maturity process. I always say, the younger they rebel the better the chance they return. If your husband keeps the screaming up, he is basically affirming everythng your daughter thought to be true. That, sorry to say, would be the biggest sin of all. Well next to throwing her out of the house. That is actualy… Read more »

    Smartest Person in the room
    Guest
    Smartest Person in the room

    stop forcing your kids to live their lives according to your old fashion ideals.

    to #5
    Guest
    to #5

    STOP BEING SUCH A GROUCH AN GO GET A LIFE!!!!

    .......
    Guest
    .......

    You have to pick and choose your battles your not always going to win every time but there is room for compromise.
    We are living in a different day in age and you have to face it!!
    Be encouraging in everything good she does.

    Good Luck!

    a teen whos going through this 2
    Guest
    a teen whos going through this 2

    1st to num 17 reufah shilama srsly? this girl isnt sick! she doesnt need help
    also u have to let her be wat she wants 2 let her live on her own shell have to leanr herself shes 19 shes a big girl!

    Call Sheah Hecht
    Guest
    Call Sheah Hecht

    Call Shea Hecht – has helped many people in this situations.
    He would be a great person to speak to your husband in a non intimidating way

    To #70 "If one more person talks about self esteem..."
    Guest
    To #70 "If one more person talks about self esteem..."

    What is really going on?

    talking from personal experience
    Guest
    talking from personal experience

    i think the best idea for her is to be in a situation where she knows people are looking up to her.
    she went thru “the system” and she knows what is right. maybe suggest to her that she should go on shlichus where she won’t be compared to other girls but rather she will be in a situation where she knows people are looking up to her and respect her ,and i guarantee you she will want to and will do what she knows is right!

    besides #38
    Guest
    besides #38

    Need to take on inyanim that personally make sense and that you are able to see as real and meaningful for yourself from the list offered
    same for the following:
    Adding in hachlotas tovos in the family in whatever makes sense for each person individually .
    Sara Yosef Ovadia system for envisioning the person/situation in a positive image for a set amount of time every day
    writing to the Rebbe – din v cheshbon about any positive things that you/your family are doing and saying specifically what is going on that needs brochos

    been there and conquered b.h.
    Guest
    been there and conquered b.h.

    I unfortanatly went through many years with my son yes it affects the other siblings and it can cause bholom bais but thanks to hakodoih baruchu i feel that me and my son have come a long way i love him and tell him that all the time and when things were really bad and i wanted to maybe let him go to another family yes i was not embarresed and went to do research for a good therapised i forced him to go and there he opened up his heart and so did i and my husband. from what… Read more »

    yalili
    Guest
    yalili

    try yalili
    she will come frum again

    COL therapy 101
    Guest
    COL therapy 101

    Put his in the col therapy section.

    Dale Carnegie
    Guest
    Dale Carnegie

    By writing this letter you may have been trying to accomplish a few things. Either you wanted some sympathy, or you wanted advice. If you were writing for sympathy i can totally understand you. On the other hand, if it’s for advice, how did you expect to get advice from a bunch of know-it-alls on COL? I will not be like the rest and give you advice but one thing i can tell you. There is a book by Dale Carnegie written in 1936 called How To Win Friends and Influence People. This book in general is incredible, but i… Read more »

    recently rebounded
    Guest
    recently rebounded

    Hi i’m 24, This girl is me 7 years ago! please i beg you, all she needs from you is unconditional love! she is surely going to return better than ever if you only back off and begin following the teachings of chasidus! show her true love, true respect, dont judge her, you may have been worse in her shoes, focus on the good in her! if she is given some time & plenty of sincere love it is inevtable she will bounce back and be happy! you as parents need to allow the process to work itself out, dont… Read more »

    Kingston ave is suffering
    Guest
    Kingston ave is suffering

    Parents listen up, its all up to you! if you work on yourself, and love your daughters they will not be driven to rebbel!

    what you see on kingston ave is but a symptom of underlying issues!

    if only parents realized the power of love on preventing self esteem issue!

    problems with seminaries
    Guest
    problems with seminaries

    this article mamash came at the right time. We sent several of our daughters to seminaries and were not very pleased with the results. BH they are frum but their standards of tznius went down, their rebelliousness went up, their independence leveled soared. As nice as it is to send girls to seminary, the sad reality is that hte influence today is not what it should be. They see other girls who have lower standards and not all girls are strong enough to withstand the influence of their peers. My husband now refuses to send any more of our girls… Read more »

    extra siyata dishmaya
    Guest
    extra siyata dishmaya

    love her and leave her be. be happy in the fact she she did not leave home . just love her take her out to lunch. father dear try keep your cool she is your daughter and with love and your proper chadishkeit and a dugma chaya for her to follow she will be’szra hashem come to the proper way of aa bas yisroel. hatzlocho rabba keep cool. at the moment your daughter is spritually not well. tract gut vet zein gut.

    LOW SELF ETEEM
    Guest
    LOW SELF ETEEM

    Low self esteem is the most common cause, at least with teen girls for them to mess themselves up! when one feels hungery for love and attention, they become as reckless as a a drug addict desperate for their next hit! even mothers of childresn who were raise in beis rivka, will behave like 15yo rebbels bec they are so emotionally needy! which sane mother would march on Kingston Ave in a way that the Rebbeh taught steals brachos from your family?! after being raised in beis rivka, these desperate souls must surely know what dangers they bring to their… Read more »

    seminary
    Guest
    seminary

    we spent between 15-20,000 on seminary. the dean wore a kertchif not a sheitel as the Rebbe teaches.
    they took the girls to the beach (were there were men and women),
    the staff were not torah/chassidus example’s for the girls.
    we should keep our girls home next to us.

    LOVE HER!!!!
    Guest
    LOVE HER!!!!

    Show her that you love her no matter what. DO NOT THROW HER OUT! Work on ways to build your relationship. Make her feel good and important.
    Much hatzlacha in this difficult task! May you see revealed good very soon!

    comment #42
    Guest
    comment #42

    “Chassidus has struggled with the question “How can Torah command us to Love Hashem?” for centuries and hasn’t given a realistic answer beyond “if you work hard enough it will happen”. That’s a euphemism that means Chassidus isn’t real = true, and a revelation of your own sorry state of belief. Coming from there, and your own value system (not Chassidus), you’re really not in a position to advise this mother, (perhaps you ARE her daughter). And no Chassidus hasn’t “struggled” to answer this question, only to come up short, uh unrealistic. Chassidus answers this question extensively, but it seems… Read more »

    Agree with #93
    Guest
    Agree with #93

    so lets send our girls to seminary near our home!

    to #5
    Guest
    to #5

    i think that #85 and #2 are right.i dont know what your talking about.

    #61
    Guest
    #61

    i totally agree!

    E-mail your phone #
    Guest
    E-mail your phone #

    I’ve had many issues with my children. Now thank G_D they are married & I’m very proud. I helped some other women in Lubavitch and gave them support. If you’ll e-mail me your phone # I’ll be very happy to talk to you, and keep in confidential. My e-mail is: lifespan4all@yahoo.com
    I don’t leave in NY, but I’m visiting often.
    May you see a lot of Nachas from your daughter.

    From the other end of the spectrum...
    Guest
    From the other end of the spectrum...

    I am a fourteen year old baalas teshuva. i can tell you exactly how your daugter is going to react soon enough. She’ll feel regret, a certain emptiness. Trust me, there’s no joy in the secular world. she’s going to look at you, her parents, with hate if she sees that your tying to force her to be frum. people that try to force their children, who are going slightly off the derech, to come back, are only hurting the situation, as the child/teenager will see that it’s something she’s forced to do by her parents, and turn even further.… Read more »

    To #42
    Guest
    To #42

    DON’T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do NOT try to explain to her the benefits of tsnius! That could turn her off even more! When I was learning tsnius in my teenage years, the first thing the teacher taught us was the brachos of being tsnius. My first thought was, “So that’s all this is about? We just work for our own benefit, our own rewards? And so much so that the first thing we are told is that we get benefits? What about doing it for G-d?” Even if you yourself are chas vesholom doing it just for the brachos – which is something… Read more »

    true
    Guest
    true

    I so agree with #27

    concerned parent
    Guest
    concerned parent

    i have a son whos 21 and going of the derech a little bit maybe we can set them like this we know they will both marry jewish!

    Visit a Chabad Chassidishe MHC
    Guest
    Visit a Chabad Chassidishe MHC

    If this writer is sincere, and not just an Op Ed, why not visit a Lubavitcher Mental health professional, one that understands the girl’s background. Whith some parenting guidance offered to the parents, and a empathic ear to the girl’s message, the couple and their daughter can regain familial harmony.

    #88 is right.. from #13
    Guest
    #88 is right.. from #13

    This is what i’m pointing out.. at the risk of unmasking myself, I sent a shiduch sos op-ed to col with pretty much this. And listen girls, you can be tznius and fashionable! it actually more attractive to see someone creatively dressed fashionly and tznius.. A lot of us “back from the cellar” guys are turned off by the Laissez-faire What turns us off ? behavior by so called “frum” people… p.s. go a chabad shull in any city, look at the baalei batim during davening… if they talk then i’ll bet good $ the youth there fry out… Most… Read more »

    times are a changin...seminaries and more
    Guest
    times are a changin...seminaries and more

    Many are questioning why the previous generation of Lubavitch did not have all these issues (there was maybe a handful who did have). We had a different structure then. There were no Seminaries except Kfar Chabad and France…which only selected very few girls(probably under 10 per year). Everyone pretty much stayed in the Shchuna and out of owners came to C.H. for Seminary. Also, your typical Bochur and Bais Rivkah girl came straight out of Yeshiva and B.R. Seminary and got married. The concept of Touro College, higher education..etc. was not around. Although I am a big believer of empowering… Read more »

    life
    Guest
    life

    she is testing you guys whether you will love her and show her love despite how shes acting.

    sg
    Guest
    sg

    while i have not had the time to read all the prior comments, last night at a farbraingen, rabbi Faiglin of aliya spoke about a story with some similarities but he learns from his experience that instead of counseling the child he is working with the parent to help him better understand how do approach the situation. i can tell you from personal experience that fighting and threatening your child is the wrong way to deal with it

    Hard situation
    Guest
    Hard situation

    The only thing worse then kicking her out is treating her disrespectfully as your frustrated husband is. Your ONLY leverage here is your relationship with her, and a bad father-daughter relationship is especially effective in screwing girls up. If you guys can’t calm down and talk to her about compromise and setting some limits while recognizing that she can and will make her own choices etc. then, yes she should move out. But those conversations about limits and creating a healthy relationship will still need to happen if you want her to visit and perhaps even turn to you as… Read more »

    Mashpia
    Guest
    Mashpia

    you and your husband need a mashpia that both of you can look up to and your husband will follow, the mashpia has to be middle age or older preferably husband/wife teem with a lot of experience in dealing with teenagers, I am already a zaidy but I am familiar with the situation (I was a troubled teenager from a big gezsha family who was thrown out of the hose… and thanks to the intervention of a mashpia I was able to straighten out…) At all cost do not cut off a child or he/she may be lost forever. A… Read more »

    unspeakable
    Guest
    unspeakable

    There is a secret undercurrent that makes the girls not so innocent anymore but girls/girls think its okay. Personally I don’t blame the father for feeling this way, but parents are completely clueless in this matter, and there is no real solution that I can see.

    the dughters view...to perents
    Guest
    the dughters view...to perents

    sometimes you worry about the relatively small things, such as how i dress or what music i listen to and the like, when there is a much greater hurt that is killing me. YOUR RELIGION/ BELIEFS DO NOT MATTER RIGHT NOW, IT MAY KILL ME. PLEASE HELP ME.
    ps: i am someone that relates to the daughter, not parents.

    Throw them out
    Guest
    Throw them out

    The biggest mistake is keeping these kids at home, it ruins the rest of the family, if you want the rest of the kids to be Frum then get rid of this one, the rejection will help them come back. She will come back looking for lost love. if you let her do whatever she wants in your home – then you lost her and every other child in the house.

    Be aware.

    An experienced parent.

    wow
    Guest
    wow

    Lubavs are always great with baalei T shuva yet when it comes to thier own children it seems some feel they should just be perfect cause look what i gave them it should not equal this seminary,good school…….. i think if you treat them with respect like you would any other 19 year old girl or boy interested how ever remotely in judaism and express the love a parent has you def have a good shot the proof look at all the other baalie t shuva and a connection with a not frum daughter is still better than none at… Read more »

    Funny
    Guest
    Funny

    I heard a lot of “me” in the article. I think it is very selfish that you are embarresed of you’re daughter. This is not about her but how your name will be affected. If it really is truly for your daughter you would look for soloutins from her point of veiw. Fellow teen and I understand her but not you!!!!!!

     No brainer
    Guest
    No brainer

    1. Y’min M’karevesoche, show the love S’mol Doche, go easy on the rebuke
    2. Get her set up with a positive force of influence, definately an outsider

    so she is not so chassidish.
    Guest
    so she is not so chassidish.

    Your daughter is 19…. she is an “adult”. She has a mind of her own now and wants to be independant. There is nothing you can do but to keep showing your unconditional love. She will find her own path… hopefully the torah way. And if she stays this way… not so bad…. if she is a good person and know that she is loved… she is still frum. Just not chasidish.

    88 89 90 very true
    Guest
    88 89 90 very true
    me too
    Guest
    me too

    i have similar issues in my home.after speaking with others who got through this i work to get over the shame,love her ,daven and write to the rebbe and be patient! starting to see progress BH!

    simply put
    Guest
    simply put

    1. parents, esp father needs to know how to raise a teen. with all due respect, we know it is not easy raising children. however, you both need help quick. 2. rabbi manis friedman gave a talk on tznius – his main point if i chapped it right, is that parents must accept the child/teen as a person first – get that? her tznius can’t be more important than her. exclamation mark 🙂 3. stephen covey talks about the shame he and his wife felt when they realized they cared more about what ppl thought re: their “loser” son, than… Read more »

    #113
    Guest
    #113

    siriously women !!!!! u need some big time help !!!!
    isnt our whole perpous in life to help thoughs who are stuggeling by showing them love and helping them in wic ever way we can??? or was i bought up in a diffrent lubavitch to the rest of u………. 🙁

    like #88
    Guest
    like #88

    well expressed
    wish you well

    col
    Guest
    col

    tell her to get gossip from col

    groups
    Guest
    groups

    MASK has great groups for parents to learn how to help their children. all groups are facilitated by professionals. mask is not just for at risk they do alot of prevention workshops etc 718-758-0400

    Throw her out!
    Guest
    Throw her out!

    Do not allow her to continue being a bad example for the rest of your children (that I am sure you have). If you do not send her away the relationship you and your husband have will be shattered! and your other children will DEFINITELY follow in her GOYISHE footsteps. They will have always looked to her as a role model and now that she is being yelled at all the time they will side with her and despise your husband for not accepting her… The best thing would have been to NOT TO SEND HER TO SEMINARY…seminary is where… Read more »

    To  #112
    Guest
    To #112

    Feel free to email me at rvchabad@sbcglobal.net, I would love to talk to you, without being jugdemental. All the best!!

    to #112
    Guest
    to #112

    You sound extremely sad. Please talk to your parents sincerely about what is bothering you. You may think in your mind that they wouldn’t want to listen to you, but give it a chance.May Hashem help you.

    suggestions
    Guest
    suggestions

    If anyone can suggest additional specific mashpios who help woman in this area and in the area of shalom bayis, I believe it will be beneficial for many woman.

    bin there done that..
    Guest
    bin there done that..
    u better shape up ur PARENTING SKILLS
    Guest
    u better shape up ur PARENTING SKILLS

    if u dont learn from ur mistakes in how u parented her

    u will ch”v surely mess up the rest of ur children!

    regardless if she stays @ home or moves out!

    the bad formula already messed her up!

    change ur parenting style fast,

    seek guidance or ur children’s blood is ON UR HANDS!

    been there done that too...
    Guest
    been there done that too...

    Yup, been there done that, like so many before me. Luckily for me i was much younger.

    Unconditional love. My parents constantly told me they love me!always, every singly day they said no matter what you do we love you!

    try it – it just may work.

    unspeakable
    Guest
    unspeakable

    #111 what are you referring to? If there is something you are aware of, that people are clueless about, please share it. Maybe one person will be helped thanks to your awareness making….

    The REBBES ADVISE
    Guest
    The REBBES ADVISE

    I don’t know if the author of this letter will ever get to this comment but it will definitely be beneficial. The story is about a girl in crown heights that grew up in a chasidisher home. None the less was having great struggles with her yiddishkeit, the rebbe assigned kollel yungerman to spend as much time as needed to listen and discuss anything, and she would write to the rebbe often as well. Now I’m not going to go into all the details you can watch it on sensitivity- a jem video and the story is told by rabbi… Read more »

    refua shelama
    Guest
    refua shelama

    try to figure out where it all started and why maybe talk to her friends or something

    Rabbi - shaleach in Chinuch.
    Guest
    Rabbi - shaleach in Chinuch.

    לעולם יהא…שמאל דוחה וימין מקרבת
    the Rebbe says the aim in שמאל דוחה is the ימין מקרבת
    so even taking a stand the child must FEEL that you realy have them in your hart, & want them close to your self.
    Haatsloco. Rabo!

    The BEST Advice
    Guest
    The BEST Advice

    How about speeking to a Rabbi, a family specialist or someone who has experiance in such matters, instead of getting confused by all the above comments

    Been There, Still There
    Guest
    Been There, Still There

    There is no magic answer. It is so painful. After all is said and done, the only thing we can do is daven to Hashem. Only Hahem can help. My mother (my child’s grandmother) says that every person has a destiny and a path. It has to go out of their system before they could heal, like the flu. How about, I’ll daven for your child and you daven for my child.

    To number 2
    Guest
    To number 2

    You’re so insensitive, it’s hysterical!

    With Hashem's help i think i can help you (at least a little)
    Guest
    With Hashem's help i think i can help you (at least a little)

    Hi,

    firstly, i admire you for being honest and willing to share such a painful situation.

    secondly, though the situation seems crazy and helpless it’s really not, do not give up hope.

    since this is a situation where one comment will not be able to give you the answer you are seeking, i encourage you to email me (anonymously – u can create a anonymous email address in 5 min at gmail.com)

    you can reach me at chinuchhelp@gmail.com
    hatzlacha
    -a member of the community

    never give up hope
    Guest
    never give up hope

    There is a story about the hoshatiner rebbi zya who was a son of the rizhiner’s son. As many may know it was his tefillos at the kever of the orach chaim during world war 2 that played animportant part in saving eretz yisroel from the nazis .As gen rommel ,the nazi commander was about to m ove toward eretz yisroel many o f the gedolim went to the kever of the orach chaim zya. As they stood there the hoshatiner saw the ‘ shem havaya” rise from the kever and he said ‘ we have been saved’ within a… Read more »

    a 19 year old post sem girl
    Guest
    a 19 year old post sem girl

    Hi, Does your daughter keep shabbos and kashrus? if yes, then your problems are not as big as you are making them. so, she went to seminary and now is not embarrassed to publicly display her lack of chassideshkeit. Its sad but not the end of the world. What would be the end of the world, is losing a loving parent-daughter relationship because of a clashing of ideals. Prioritize and realize that you are fighting a fruitless battle. Your daughter is 19 and free to lead her life how she likes. However, she must respect you and your ideals, and… Read more »

    judaism
    Guest
    judaism

    I think you should speak to her about her future and emunah in tora and tzdikim and what she feels. from what you’re writing it seems shes just going with a flow from her friends. and your rules shouldn’t have to do with your house, they are from hashem and the minhagim of Bnos yisroel hakidoshim for 3 thousand years. where does she want to be is 10 years, going to manhattan with her friends with an ipod…, or a happy married mother.

    to #2
    Guest
    to #2

    you made my day

     teen
    Guest
    teen

    i agree with 28,29, and 37! shes not a kid anymore give her some space or else shell feel so suffocated, shell explode! and show her the beauty…

    be an example of True judaism
    Guest
    be an example of True judaism

    thats the only way to attract some1 to it!

    Chabad accepts all
    Guest
    Chabad accepts all

    the unintended consequence of accepting all ppl in,

    today a sygnificant number of ppl, including parents & teachers are not proper role models of Torah-integrated judaism!

    the problem is that many youngsters assume that what they see in these half baked phonies is the full pic

    & they get turned off from Yiddishkeit when really they never even had an accurate portrayal of the real deal & its awesome rewards & beauty

    suggestion
    Guest
    suggestion

    I would suggest that a parent before sending their daughter to seminary, should take the time to look into the minahel, who is running the seminary, and the chassidishkeit of the seminary.

    #13
    Guest
    #13

    Read that post a few times. that is the ultimate truth. from my own similar experience and the experience of tens of other that i know.
    Moshiach NOW!!

    reality check
    Guest
    reality check

    When children lose faith in their one and only role models – the parents, they ultimately lose faith, period. A child has to have total confidence in the parents. If they sense that the parents are just “preaching” at them, instead of walking the walk, they just talk the talk, then this is what happens. A truly chassidisher home is one where the Rebbe LIVES, EATS & BREATHES 24/7. Not just in a relegated sense or in a theoretic sense BUT IN REALITY! When a child senses the parents’ warped hashkofo when it comes to the Rebbe – then they… Read more »

    some people are dumb
    Guest
    some people are dumb

    its easy to say “leave her alone” but when do you step in? how far do you let her stray before you get involved? when its your daughter- the pain hurts. it hurts to watch her harm herself. and if the child is a girl who will press all limits, well let me tell you “letting her go” will make things worse. there are somethings you cant reverse, and sometimes you just got to set the line.

    Every Person is a World
    Guest
    Every Person is a World

    Our children are not extensions of ourselves, although we have great influence whether intended or not. When they are young, we have two things we must do simultaneously- surround them with an optimum environment but also give them the tools with which to stand strong when they have to go out on their own. We have to show them love care and trust. Don’t blame yourself or your husband if your child doesn’t follow the script, she has bechira chofshis, however do find out how you can improve your relationship on an adult level. Chinuch doesn’t end, it just changes… Read more »

    Reality
    Guest
    Reality

    Firstly, you are really brave for verbalizing something that is easting away at your heart and being honest about the situation. DO NOT GET HER MARRIED OFF JUST TO GET HER OUT OF THE HOUSE. Some people for one reason or the other start searching later in life and unfortunately at the age where kids are “straightening up” they are doing things that wild fourteeen year olds would do. If you just allow her to marry another kid who is searching, they are both not content and do not know which direction they would like to go and it will… Read more »

    Response to #13
    Guest
    Response to #13

    your message is very touching. I am happy to hear about your sensitivity to the Maamarim that we have and that are truly a gift. Yes, more of these kids should be learning them.
    kol hakovod.

    To # 18
    Guest
    To # 18

    Why dump that on a poor guy? Get her someone to talk to who is not in the family that she respects. Otherwise, make a point to take her on personal outing special mommy or tatty time just to talk at starbucks or somewhere relaxing. Buy her a drink, find out what she wants out of life, what are her fears , goals, aspirations. Maybe she has no clue and is begging for guidence but not in a controlling manner. Wishing you many successful years to come and overcoming this challenge! You should have much nachas from each other

    Dear concerned mother
    Guest
    Dear concerned mother

    I guess everyone here tries to give the best advice, sincerely, what they believe it’s the best. So I’m just one more, offering my humble point of view. First of all, you’re not her “Rabbi”, “Mashpiah”, “Teacher” “Sister” or “Father”. You are her MOTHER. The closest person to her, her very essence. You know better than anyone how to LISTEN to her and advice her. Verbalize whatever it is you think such as “I think you are going through some confusing times but you know what? I love you no matter what and you can always count on me”. She… Read more »

    My advice
    Guest
    My advice

    Don’t pressure her. If your husband continues to act like that towards her, you will MOST definitely lose her. The best you can do at this point is to show how much you care about her and to make sure that she doesn’t feel pressured. It is also very important to have a heart to heart talk with her , explaining your concerns (and your husbands) but also make sure to hear her side of the story. I wish you all the best, and hope that through listening to her and lowering your voice, she can come back to you.… Read more »

    Why did she change so suddenly?
    Guest
    Why did she change so suddenly?

    Often when someone has a sudden personality change it is due to a traumatic event in their life. Sometimes it can even be something that happened in their childhood, even if you never knew about it. (Sometimes we can suspect and our children will deny it the whole time until later when they present with unhealthy behavior.) I suggest pursuing this avenue first.

    In addition to this, #38 has said it all.

    X