ב"ה
Tuesday, 11 Tishri, 5781
  |  September 29, 2020

Live:

“That Loving Feeling”

Anonymous OP-ED: "We all dream of "falling in love" and being totally swept away in a wave of passion and excitement. We are certain that when we meet our destined one we will know without doubt in our hearts that this is "the one." Full Article

L’Chaim: Schmidt – Shaffer

Next Story »

Los Angeles Like at 770

Subscribe
Notify of
66 Comments
oldest
newest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Give the man a chance! Butterflies are not something to go on.
June 12, 2013 5:24 pm

As a once religious young lady, I was thrown into the dating pool once I made Aliyah. I befriended a young man who was just my friend. He had a nice voice, good midot and, bh is very, very smart. I was not at all interested in him at the beginning! I went on dates with other prospective men. Nothing stuck, but I continued to chat with this smart, nice friend of mine. Over time, I realized that this was someone that I could see a future with. He has similar values, he accepted me for who I am and… Read more »

SHTECHING MUST STOP!!!!!
October 27, 2012 4:34 pm

I enjoyed reading the article.
As chassidim we know that SHTECING one another is against the whole inyun of ahavas yisroal, all you have done is hurt someone else which is very bad, so let us all love each other and moshiach will come faster.

Secular Perspective - You'll Be Surprised...
March 6, 2011 3:46 pm

Having grown up secular, and still not living a Torah lifestyle, but very involved in our local Chabad I will tell you this. I deeply love my husband, but we often dissapoint eachother. There were things he did not want me to see or know about himeself and his world view before marriage, and I am sure he at times feels the same with me. We met and married when I was 27. Young for a secular jew out in the world, independent. I am often sad about his negative view of the world and lack of faith, even though… Read more »

Marry in Haste Divorce in Leisure
December 1, 2010 1:23 pm

Sometimes you are pushed to marry because of other considerations such as having skeletons in the closet which are not of your doing, eg a sibling who is mentally ill.

yeah yeah
July 29, 2010 6:39 pm

dream on i mean seriously after dating, the wedding,sheva brachos and everything the real life starts even fighting

Real love
September 14, 2009 1:16 am

I couldn’t agree more with #55. I was pretty young when I got engaged, and like her, I also did not “love” my husband when I got engaged to him, or when I got married. He didn’t even have everything on my “list”, but he did (and does) have everything important: good midos, yiras shomayim, and a personality that is compatible with mine. My mashpia, parents, and others helped me understand that at this point, you only have to feel like you can see yourself feeling comfortable living with this person……We are now married close to ten years B”H. The… Read more »

#60
June 23, 2009 10:13 am
still looking
May 21, 2009 4:45 pm

i hope more people will read this and take to hart what you have so insitfully and correctly put down. There are a few more reasons there are a lot of problems today besides what you have so rightfully and clearly put down. to mention just a few more :-often some people think no, i can do better or what will my friends say. Unfotunatly it is possible to push away ones true zivig., not all of us have the chance to make a mistake and then to rectify it. Another reason are that some (not all) shadchonim think they… Read more »

To Rabbi Shea Hecht from the author
May 18, 2009 8:49 am

Thank you for your kind words!

They were much appreciated..

TO #54
May 18, 2009 8:46 am

the rebbe told her “life is not a noval” meaning if you’d like to read those books, fine, but dont think life will be that way! (and those days the books out there werent like the “trash love books” these days) meaning love builds over time, you cant just meet someone and then love them, life isnt a noval
Mrs. Sharfstein will be the first to tell you that love builds,if its over night it will collapse

Dear Anonymous
May 18, 2009 3:02 am

I appreciated your article. very well said.
If I may add–The Rebbe has answered dozens of times to people “hamshochas halev”. As you stated, there must be an attraction. That’s why the Rebbe has also advised some to take a break for up to a month or two (maybe because absence makes the heart grow fonder) because that will also arouse behamshochas halev, the feelings of attraction and love.

Thanks for a great article. Keep up the great work.

Rabbi Shea Hecht

Love grows.........
May 17, 2009 12:31 pm

I was not attracted to my husband,nor did I ‘love’ him when I agreed to marry him but I knew I was marring a Baal Midos Tovos , a Mentch and an extremely intelligent ,kind person. He was not my young girl fantasy man but Hashem knew what I needed more than I did, and going on all the above things I saw in him I married him which proved to be the best thing I would ever do in my life! 13 yrs later he is my best friend ,I love him more than anything AND I am extremely… Read more »

to 4 points..
May 17, 2009 4:33 am

Since when is love secluded just for the secular world? There is a well know story when the rebbe was having a discussion with Mrs Chana Sharfstein about this very topic which the author shares her views with , how we get so caught up in reading romantic novels etc and goes on to teach this young women a lesson on love. Are you implying that the not modest in his speech too?………..!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes frum boys AND very chassidish boys are very exposed to the world we live in and have their own natural feelings and desires, simply because they… Read more »

4 points
May 16, 2009 9:11 pm

Let me tell all the female readers of this page that the opening word: “We all dream of “falling in love” and being totally swept away in a wave of passion and excitement.” and the subsequent elaboration would never be said by a bachur who was born and is frum. “We all?” Males and females are very different. #18 is correct. Go there now if you’ve not read it. Should a frum website have such explicit expressions like “We all dream of “falling in love” and being totally swept away in a wave of passion and excitement. etc. etc.?” There… Read more »

what about us second timers
May 16, 2009 8:58 pm

i am divorced and looking i have been on dates, it is hard, i dated for over 3 months only for the man to turn round and say that he didnt think it would go this far, Doh! so why are you dating then, and also he thought he could date me for a couple of years blah blah blah, – that was and he is the pitts! As i said i am a second time rounder i was married the first time for 16 years, and the message i got from the shadchonim were, you get the name, you… Read more »

WELL HOWS THIS FOR AN OPINION
May 14, 2009 4:32 pm

why dont you look a bit deeper and ask yourself “would the problem maybe never had been in the first place if there wasnt som much judging based on family, background, money, and other situations”? maybe if people would be a bit more open minded to the type of names that come up, and maybe if your “shaddchanim” actually worked to sove the problem, insted of working with the “perfect” name and family, maybe then?

to #25
May 14, 2009 3:53 pm

tell her to reconsider going out with some of the guys she had a good connection with if she feels that way, if they are still available and interested.

On the topic
May 14, 2009 1:17 pm

Every decision to marry is a leap of faith to some degree. You can never really know before.
Love is also about your commitment to another being. When both parties invest so much into the relationship and one another, by giving and receiving constantly, it continues to strengthen the love.
Whether there is love before marriage (and I doubt that is possible because love develops over time) or not, a couple needs to know that they are ABLE to love each other before committing.

about love and about listening to parents
May 14, 2009 8:46 am

falling in love means with the physical, and you get so carried away with it that you don’t discuss anything about life, you are so busy being in love. After the Sheva Brochos week is over and everyday life sets in, it hits you that you haven’t the faintest idea who you married. 2nd point: Listen to your parents, they raised you, they know you, and they know what marriage is all about, so when they think a certain Shidduch is good for you, trust them, don’t fight them. They usually know what’s best for you.

wow
May 14, 2009 7:49 am

wow so many comments on this!

To: walk a mile in our shoes,
May 14, 2009 7:07 am

I salute the authors honesty in her reply to ‘Walk a mile in our shoes”. . obviously this came from someone who has ,as she puts it, walked countless , countless miles in those shoes. . how else would she /he be able to express her/himself so eloquently??? Its ONLY someone , who is in it themselves , who can give over with such clarity that what was written. . and I amongest many many others,( judging by the long long list of those who wrote in support of this tremendous piece of work) salute and respect all that was… Read more »

a word from the author
May 14, 2009 5:09 am

Dear walk a mile in our shoes I have walked countless of miles in your shoes!!! I am not imposing my thoughts on anyone, neither am I judging or putting down anyone. I am single myself and I am more then aware of what the dating scene is all about. I know about the frustration, the waiting, the draining process more you could possibly imagine True , I would love to feel the fireworks and be madly in love before I decide to get engaged to my future husbnd, but over the years life has taught me what real love… Read more »

TO #7....BLAH BLAH BLAH
May 14, 2009 5:07 am

Love and romance is a precondition essential to my getting engaged. That said, the premise and source of your assumptions are highly disturbing! I truly hope your life doesn’t imitate the archetype Russian novel/ Hollywood love story…ending in divorce, violence even suicide! Perhaps the problem lies not in what we are meant to feel, but which route and through what provenance we aspire to attain that love. We cannot expect the classic love at first sight, or even a certain “knowing” on the first few dates. It takes time and effort to truly develop a deep connection with someone. I… Read more »

Married Guy
May 14, 2009 4:42 am

The Rebbe and Twersky, Manas Freedmen and others generaly have the same corect conclusion that love growes as you give to the other. That causes more conections between 2 soles. The rebbe would always makes sure that when 2 people asked for a brocha of engagement it would be to build a house according to torah.

Sheker hachain v’heval hayofie …. Yiras Hashem is whats praisworthy.

Oh, stop it, PLEASE! #
May 14, 2009 4:27 am

Why is half of holywood cheating, divorced and misrable?

CH Mom
May 14, 2009 4:25 am

I dont know about all of you, but I am a bit surprised by this whole article and the comments. We as frum people should have totally different hashkafois and goals, and the whole idea of shidduchim and marriage has been discussed by the Rebbe a few times. I remember in Seminary we had a teacher who told us that the Rebbe told her when she was having a hard time finding the right shidduch that she should stop reading romantic novel, they were clouding her judgement. Our girls should have different priorities than the rest of the world… This… Read more »

Hello!!
May 14, 2009 3:26 am

To all those who are commenting in such a defensive way:
Stop being so defensive about not having gotten married when you weren’t sure about anyone yet.
Its fine to take your time to be sure, etc.
That said, I also think instead of getting all upset and angry that you are being misjudged and misunderstood, take a step back and say to yourself “Can I learn something here?” Have I been shallow?
I know that;s what I thought when I first read this article.

To 37
May 14, 2009 3:23 am

I think you are a little harsh, dont you think? Maybe there was really nothing wrong with either of them, but the person backed out for whatever reason – not always is it becasue something is “disturbing” or “makes you crazy”
Just some food for thought….

to collive editors:
May 14, 2009 3:19 am

FYI: another website is copying all your comments and re posting them

I wrote a comment here and i see it there now. Isn’t that weired?

I wonder if they will copy this comment too 😉

# 29
May 14, 2009 2:41 am

Why crazy because she said no after 4 times, because YOUR ego got hurt ???? Maybe she saw something in your behavior that she didn’t like?? Or maybe something disturbed her and she tried and saw that its not going away- that makes her crazy???

To #25
May 14, 2009 1:08 am

to add what #27 wrote:
3) If any of these men were her Bashert they would not have married other women!

Sad
May 14, 2009 12:11 am

It would be nice to see quotes from the Rebbe, being that all this is found in quite a few letters, but the author is right .

Hollywood, Nashville and drugs..
May 14, 2009 12:04 am

Yes: The secular perception perception of love and romance HAS captured our imagination. And it should. Because if billions of dollars of Hollywood films, Nashville music, books and literature are based on the premise that the Secular ‘perception’ is reality, doesn’t there have to be something to it?
—I seriously hope you are being sarcastic.

If not all I have to say is that billions of dollars are also spent per year on drugs which alter peoples’ perception of reality.

Of course the feeling comes later :)
May 13, 2009 11:33 pm

I’ve been married fifteen years and Im still waiting (Just Kidding) There are many times when a young guy or girl going on a date wanting to do the right thing, reads an article like this and ends up forcing themselves into a shidduch that they are not happy with. At best they work on themselves and always have to fight the urge to look at other people’s spouses and individuals. and two lives are ruined. Yes, there will probably be feelings of doubt before a good healthy engagement and relationships, and sometimes the Specimen you are looking for doesnt… Read more »

number 9
May 13, 2009 11:10 pm

anonymous I dont see your name signed here….:)

Walk a mile in our shoes....
May 13, 2009 9:31 pm

….. Attraction is a natural component, created by Hashem. Unless you have had the experience of dating someone and having absolutly no emotional/physical/mental connection or even having a connection on a miniscule scale do not judge and write an Op-Ed about the situation. Do you think its an easy proccess? When we go out on a Shidduch date it is after a lot of research is done. Once everything looks good on paper or in theory we then go out and meet. The point of these dates is to verify if there is a connection between ourselves and the other… Read more »

stop digging!!!
May 13, 2009 9:25 pm

The problem as I see it is that EVERYONE knows EVERYTHING about EVERYONE today, through friends, family, schools etc and no one is perfect! The more you dig the more you find and the more you reject so everyone is waiting for the perfect mate the has no negatives good luck!!!

It's the personality thing!
May 13, 2009 9:10 pm

Sometimes the “personality” is different. Then it makes sense to break it off after only 4 short dates.

Or like in my case, I dated someone and thought it was really going in the right direction, but on the 4th date I discovered that the person was completely crazy.

How did I find out? The person said “no.”

Great Article
May 13, 2009 8:57 pm

I wish i have read this article a long time ago..(as i also thought that i must be swept of my feet straight away- since all my friends told me they knew straight away that that’s the guy) and i kind of messed up with someone… i guess i learned the hard way.

To #25
May 13, 2009 6:19 pm

You say “she had the option to marry a lot of fine young boys.”

1) Interesting! You think one girl could marry many boys!!!
All at once? Could you tell us which country allows this?
2) how would you explain that each person has ONE bashert? if you say she had many.

To: Oh, stop it Please
May 13, 2009 6:01 pm

You are clearly not married, because if you were, you would know how misled you are! over 50% of those fallen in love marriages out there end in divorce. We may have divorce in our community, but it doesn’t come close.
My mashpia told me so correctly when I was dating, You don’t need to love him, you need to know that you can. I didn’t then, but i do now! ‘nuf said

To #5
May 13, 2009 5:21 pm

I know a girl, she is 25+, and she practically said no to every boy she dated. She is still single, and she is very sad and lonely. As she gets older her options for a suitable Shidduch are quickly diminishing. She has expressed regret for not saying YES, even when the feelings were not as intense as she would have liked. She realizes she had the option to marry a lot of fine young boys where they shared a certain degree of mutual chemistry and attraction. But she said no over and over again. So, instead of being happily… Read more »

very 'chasidish'!!!
May 13, 2009 5:03 pm
n schaps
May 13, 2009 4:59 pm

to the guy who writes about billions of hollywood dollars….. christians spend just as much, does that make it something good and truthful……. listen to what the rebbe has to say about love….. watch the living torah about a month or two back. those who say they want MORE…… are all of your parents in unloving relationships? IF so, i feel bad that you see everyone in that generation as missing out. And if not, why not try it their way, this way ain’t gettin you married. aren’t you STILL WAITING……….. if you would understand that a marriage isn’t all… Read more »

to #16
May 13, 2009 4:45 pm

Yes my dear, we are living in the age where everyone just wants and just expects. So if he expects and wants,and she expects and wants ,who is going to give.Living is about giving.

Why always blame it on others???
May 13, 2009 4:32 pm

It’s very easy to blame the shidduch crisis on the shadchanim. But eventhough they don’t always suggest matching people, we, the dating youth, have to make an effort to focus on the right things. One of the comments said that they want the same excitement they saw by their friends. Those friends probably didn’t share witht hem their sleepless nights of doubts, wondering if they were making the right decision…. It is only very rare to find a choson or a kalla who are 100% sure about their decision. After all, you have no guarantee whatsoever about what the future… Read more »

On target
May 13, 2009 4:27 pm

Very well written… Right on target. It is 100% true that today’s frum/Lubavitch communities have been outright effected by the secular world. It is without a shadow of a doubt that movies and internet have shattered the pure motives that are supposed to be attained as clearly spelled out by the author. One that wishes to down-play movies and say they are not effected by watching them and that it is no big deal watching movies, he/she knows deep down how wrong they are. It’s a little like the explanation given about people who deny there is a G-d ;… Read more »

really?
May 13, 2009 4:08 pm

could it also be due to the facts that one Shadchanim aren’t really doing their jobs. they roll the dice , throw things against the wall so to speak & see what sticks? The shidduch crisis has to do with the facts that Shadchanim are either lazy or unwilling to do their jobs for some or do it right & why the automatic rejection of some simply because they are from the wrong group they are disqualified based upon phony false rumors or other stupidity i.e. not shpitz or their parents are b.t.’s no money etc.!!!! Yagati V’lo Matzasi Al… Read more »

love is not enough!!
May 13, 2009 3:53 pm

the rebbe gave my parents an answer, ‘as her heart feels’ and that gave me strengh to turn down many shidduchim that didn’t feel right or was not exciting enough. I had a busy, successful life and felt that when ‘Mr Right’ showed up, I would surely say yes. I was in my in my thirties and came accross something that the rebbe told someone about looking at a shidduch as if one lost something precious and was actively, eagerly seeking it. It dawned on me that I was not making an effort at all. My effort came in the… Read more »

Don't judge others...
May 13, 2009 3:34 pm

To all of you trying your best to make shidduchim, please don’t judge when you think the person is “making a mistake” and “not giving it a fair chance.” If its not it, its not it. Sometimes you just know…. believe me, we are more upset than you are that once again, this is not the one…

HUh??
May 13, 2009 3:28 pm

I dont believe this article! What age are you living in?
Get real! This is a different time, people expect more!

love is not enough!!
May 13, 2009 3:27 pm
To 10
May 13, 2009 3:12 pm

7’s comment doesn’t personify what is WRONG with the younger generation. It just personifies what IS the current generation.

The older generation looked for certain criteria in marriage, The Love Thing not being one of them, and that was fine.

The younger generation is looking for something else, AND THAT IS FINE TOO.

(And BTW, the attraction factor doesn’t cancel out the Midos or anything; we want the attraction in addition to the Midos and everything else).

Dreaming of falling in love...
May 13, 2009 3:11 pm

Ha, keep dreaming. Life isnt all about fantasy. After everything settles down from the excitement of engagement, wedding,etc. then real life starts.
And then you are married to this person – make sure that you can live with them when all that dies down.
That’s the true test of “True love”

I dont agree
May 13, 2009 3:08 pm

I dont totally agree with the writer, I am currently in the dating “parsha” and obviously I hope to find someone taht I fall in love with and am truly excited about. I have seen my friends getting engaged and married and they have seemed quite deleriously happy.
Of course i want the same for myself.
I dont think I should settle for less.

If it's not there, it's not there
May 13, 2009 3:07 pm

Why create a marriage where your children will see and feel that there’s nothing there? Before cell phones and even TV, people would date, and sometimes it just wasn’t there. That “something there” is what you’re going to build your marriage on – and the example you’re going to set for your children of what kind of marriage they should want to have for themselves.

To 7
May 13, 2009 3:04 pm

Your comment just personifies what is wrong with the younger generation. In my (somewhat older) generation people did not have the same expectations as the youth does of this generation. One expected to find a mate who was on the same wavelength as them, was going in the same direction, and one who you could envision a life together with. Attraction was important, but only after all the other criteria was met. Now it seems there is only one thing important: the attraction. Midos, etc. dont seem to come into the picture at all. My blessings to you, I hope… Read more »

anonymous
May 13, 2009 3:04 pm

suspicious of articles with no name. why no name???

Shir hashirim?
May 13, 2009 2:50 pm

So is Shir Hashirim secular too?
(Yes yes, I know, it is a moshul, I get it, but according to the op-ed author, is Shir Hashirim one big secular moshul?)

Oh, stop it, PLEASE!
May 13, 2009 2:49 pm

Boy do I hate these articles, and the people constantly assuring us singles that all we need is a “emotional connection to some degree” – any degree; and that it is much more important to just get married quickly and have lots of little ‘Hasid-lings’. Yes: The secular perception perception of love and romance HAS captured our imagination. And it should. Because if billions of dollars of Hollywood films, Nashville music, books and literature are based on the premise that the Secular ‘perception’ is reality, doesn’t there have to be something to it? And why should we miss out on… Read more »

Nice
May 13, 2009 2:13 pm

Nicely written. Thanks

Still waiting
May 13, 2009 2:13 pm

Having been waiting for that perfect someone for a long time, and having been out on many many shidduch dates, I can tell you that I, for one, am going to wait until I have that feeling about someone that they are the perfect, right, one for me.

No amount of discussion is going to change my mind.
After all, I have to marry the person, dont I…..

CH Shadchan
May 13, 2009 2:10 pm

Kol Hakavod! Thank you for your insightful words.

THis is definitely become a big problem in our shidduchim process.

anon
May 13, 2009 2:09 pm

I was in this exact situation. I was not sure…but gave it another try. just one more date, I said.
PS: Happily married now for 2 years.

L S T
May 13, 2009 2:07 pm

You cannot convince anyone to get engaged unless they are absolutlely positive about their decision. Would you rather R”L have broken engagement? Better to end it before anyone gets hurt.

Well said
May 13, 2009 2:06 pm

I totally agree with you. This is a very big problem nowadays. I personally was involved in trying to make a shidduch where after three dates one of the parties said that “on paper this is right” but they just dont feel anything…. it was such a shame.

X