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Monday, 25 Av, 5779
  |  August 26, 2019
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    Star-K Negates OK’s Transaction

    The OK certification arranged for a major beer distributor, owned by a Jew, to sell its chametz for Pesach, but Star-K won't recognize it. Full Story

    First Kinus After Chof Ches Nissan

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    Mrs. Alessa Wircberg, 66, OBM

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    Ok letter
    Guest
    Ok letter

    It’s not signed
    Although I will buy because I trust the ok. Its is heartwarming to see that the star I will not bend its rules. I guess they have good standards.

    So...?
    Guest
    So...?

    Don’t see the issue here. Star K has a policy and they choose to stick to it. People who wish to follow the OK are more than welcome to.

    A beer drinker
    Guest
    A beer drinker

    Yasher koach gevaldig!

    Disgusting
    Guest
    Disgusting

    After all these years of trying, the OK managed to achieve this success. And simply because of jealousy/greed/politics/competition the Stark K negates it? WELL DONE! Now you realize Mr. Bergson will likely never do another mitzvah of any kind? Who can blame him? And despite the Star K’s sources for their Psak, they are disputing the integrity of the OK, which in & of itself is wrong. Personally, I haven’t eaten Star K products, especially tuna, for over 30 years, since I believe their interests lie in $$ & not Kashrus. Mr. Bergson – if you read this, please know… Read more »

    Way to politicize
    Guest
    Way to politicize

    I generally don’t like hechshers but in this case it does seem to be a genuine halachic disagreement. I have friends who drink thier good booze before pesach because they will otherwise throw it out.

    I don't understand
    Guest
    I don't understand

    Has this beer alert list gone out every year from the star k?
    When did the star k adopt this policy as I don’t remember ever seeing this beer alert in the past…..

    big deal
    Guest
    big deal

    ok sometimes also would not agree with STAR k
    this is why there are 2 different companies

    Misleading Title
    Guest
    Misleading Title

    The Star-K didn’t “negate” anything. They had nothing to do with the sale and have no power to negate anything. The mechira didn’t meet their standards, and they advised those who rely on their judgement accordingly.

    Not to get preachy, but it’s sfira. We really don’t need to create more machlokes but sensationalizing non-stories.

    Question
    Guest
    Question

    It appears from the article that Star Ks policy is to not recognize Mechira of chometz. So do kosher stores (specifically in Baltimore where Star K is located) buy all new stock immediately after Pesach? It would be impossible for the shelves to be stocked for weeks after Pesach because the kosher food manufacturers and distributors sell their chometz etc. I don’t understand what their policy is.

    To Number 4
    Guest
    To Number 4

    I couldn’t agree with you more. Star-k does not want to “lower” itself by relying on OK’s mechirah. Would it kill these people to work together?

    Everyone has their own views
    Guest
    Everyone has their own views

    Some people don’t eat gebrukts on Pesach, some don’t eat anything thar isn’t yoshon. Aseh lcha rav

    Amazing post,
    Guest
    Amazing post,

    Schoyach OK!!

    Mechiras chometz
    Guest
    Mechiras chometz

    If he sold the chometz, he fully understood what he was doing, and no one was forcing him to do it it’s a valid mechira. Buy have to be careful on “pushing” mechiras since it can affect the all big mechira of the Rov.

    To number 4
    Guest
    To number 4

    You clearly know little to nothing about kashrus and let your Sinas chinam shine through. Speak to Rabbonim and you will see that a Mechira like this is far from simple.

    Additionally, The STAR-K put the alert out BEFORE the OK got Bergson to make a mechira.

    Negate or agree?
    Guest
    Negate or agree?

    Reading the star-k statement, they are not negating anything the ok did, just the opposite in fact. they commend it and are not telling people not to buy the beer, just thier own places to follow thier long standing policy.

    We never bought Star K at home.
    Guest
    We never bought Star K at home.

    They aren’t from the highest standards. Rabbi Weissmandel- who is known to be a higher standard does approve.

    Another Kashrus disagreement, and everyone follow your own Rov.

    I think this is an old fight
    Guest
    I think this is an old fight

    This thing between the Star K and OK goes back to when Hagaon Reb Berel Levy was alive.

    Thats life. One company does not have to accept the other companies Heterim.

    To #9 (and others)
    Guest
    To #9 (and others)

    From what I understand , The issue here is that star K doesn’t recognize a Mechira (sale) by someone who is not Frum. That is the Crux of the issue here. It is not a dispute with the ok in general Etc.

    In fact it could be tied to the broader difference of how Chabad looks at Jews versus how other groups view non frum Jewish.

    I’m sure there will be a quick work around. Someone will find an out-of-town distributor (perhaps from Baltimore?) and distribute in New York until shavuos). Who knows.

    Cheers!

    Really?
    Guest
    Really?

    To those suggesting that star k is the stringent kosher agency I personally once conveyed an important kashrus alert to the head of the star k since they brought Shabbos in early in the summer and we’re not aware. To my shock the leading Rabbinic administrator laughed it off because it came from a lubavitcher. I was shocked at his callous attitude towards a possible breach in kashrus. But now I’m no longer shocked 🙁

    lets explain ;
    Guest
    lets explain ;

    everyone agrees that mechiras chometz in principal is legit, now there is a commercial question. and that is if a owner of a corporation signs a mechiras chometz contract BUT CONTINUES TO SELL CHOMETZ DURING PESACH , does that invalidate the mechira or is mr. bergson just selling ( or stealing) the goys chometz? thats the crux of the issue, finally chometz sheavar is a derabonon and since you dont know if these cans are from before or after the ok views that bedieved + safek + mechira = OK as far as private people that dont sell “real chometz”… Read more »

    Come On
    Guest
    Come On

    They have a genuine disagreement. There’s nothing wrong with that, and they praised the OK for doing the mechira on top of it.

    Also its not just the Star K, Hisachdus also said they don’t hold of the mechira, as did the head of the OU (although he said the OU won’t be making a statement.

    Baruch Hashem the OK was able to arrange the mechira, and Baruch Hashem there are other hashgachos with their own standards too.

    mechirah
    Guest
    mechirah

    what does the premier kashrus organization the ou have to say about it? I would rely on them.

    star k
    Guest
    star k

    star k is only a little better than triangle k these days. There was a time when Rabbi Heineman>s hechsher was reliable but unfortunately things have changed. Even litvishe mehadeim don’t touch his stuff today

    silliness
    Guest
    silliness

    reading this post is akin to a blind man guiding a deaf man…..

    i am in the business and can say that both are good hashgachas, and you should just confer with your local neighborhood rabbis…as to where you hold and what your personal standard should be
    like usual this is very much ado about nothing

    Picture worth 1000 words
    Guest
    Picture worth 1000 words

    It’s great that they took pictures. I’m happy to see a picture of Reb Kalman, a well know mashgiach with the company in discussion. The fact that the OK pulled this off is commendable and everyone should be congratulating them. If you don’t trust this mechira then I question which mechira you do trust…

    who does Heineman & co. think they are?
    Guest
    who does Heineman & co. think they are?

    unbelievable the ego. star k a weaker organization based in Baltimore thinks he can Tell a NY Rav & especially Don Yoel Levy what to do! & how he should hold

    To #20
    Guest
    To #20

    This is incorrect
    They sold the entire business to the goy not only the חמץ..
    every yid who owns old age homes does it in this manner
    Not a חידוש

    To 21
    Guest
    To 21

    I’m surprised. I have heard from many big lubavitcher rabbonim that we don’t rely on the Star K for anything really. [Once, a bochur had hot cocoa in yeshiva and it was sitting on the counter (cholov yisroel, star k). When the RY came by and saw it, he looked, asked whose it was and threw it out without listening for the answer. He said avaday for milchigs, but even pareve]. They are meikil on almost everything, except this mechira when the OK does it. And Hisachdus and OU are no better. They don’t not hold of the mechira, they… Read more »

    #28
    Guest
    #28

    So sad. The only reason lubavitchers don’t hold of other kashrus is because they are not lubavitch. While all other Yidden get along with each other, Litvish and chassidish together, you always choose to fight everyone no matter what.

    misleading
    Guest
    misleading

    Why is the star k singled out when crc also made it clear they don’t accept the ok stance on this. Is it easier to blame the litvishers than pick a fight with satmar?

    stop making a machlokes out of this
    Guest
    stop making a machlokes out of this

    everyone in the industry thinks OK and Rabbi Weinfeld did a great thing to arrange this mechira. It removed the issue of chometz she’avar hapesach from thousands of yidden across the tri-state area. R’ Moshe zt”l has two tshuvos approving of it, even though the company is open during Pesach, and he holds it’s a valid mechira. R’ JB Solveitchik wrote against it, saying it’s not reliable that the owner truly intended to sell, since he’s open anyways. Most of the leaders of the OU are students of R’ JB z”l from YU, and they follow his psak. So it’s… Read more »

    Post mechira
    Guest
    Post mechira

    BsD
    Please post the mechiras chometz statement online with dates and signatures for everyone to see, not an unsigned letter from the Ok. That would give me more peace of mind

    differences of opinion caveat:
    Guest
    differences of opinion caveat:

    as long as star k openly agrees that the mechira removes the products from the category of chometz sheh’ovar ….they can keep to whatever standards they’re following. the main thing is not to send a nuanced signal that their standards are holy and the o.k.’s are not. the o.k. is not picking a fight; it has every right and obligation to publicize the situation in order for the jewish public to be aware that these products were indeed sold for pesach according to o.k’s. and others’ standards and may indeed be purchased immediately after pesach.

    at number 20
    Guest
    at number 20

    what those people are selling when they don’t sell “real” chomitz is taaroves chometz which is still asur to own on pesach so thats why they sell it.

    To 29
    Guest
    To 29

    I posted 28 and you replied. You’re frankly quite wrong. We rely on good hechsherim, most of which are not lubavitcher hechsherim (Skver, Veismandel, Volova). It just so happens that Star K is not one of them, and obviously we don’t rely on Satmar (CRC). Many things we don’t rely on the OU for (ie bishul yisroel etc, which each has to ask a rov moreh horaa about) and I personally don’t rely on the OK for certain things as well. A person should have a rov and should call any hechsher they want and ask any questions they want… Read more »

    Are they consistent?
    Guest
    Are they consistent?

    “Longstanding Star-K policy has always been not to rely on a mechira in these circumstances.

    Does the Star-K require all their restaurant to eliminate all Chometz gamur? All the frozen breads, dried pasta, pretzels?
    I’d like to know!

    To 29
    Guest
    To 29

    You’re statement is categorically false. Lubavitcher chassidim trust other hechsherim on a daily basis. Star k has a reputation of being kenient where it pays for them and being stringent when it comes to other kosher supervision companies. Classic echad beleh bechad belaiv. This said, I would trust them more than I would trust triangle k.

    #18 made it clear
    Guest
    #18 made it clear

    “In fact it could be tied to the broader difference of how Chabad looks at Jews versus how other groups view non frum Jewish.” Whether anyone relies totally on the star k or not, a classic lubavitcher “move” has to make it about “the difference between us and them” a favorite line amongst lubavitchers. Its always about chabad vs the rest of the Yiddishe velt. And then you are surprised why Moshiach isnt here, it is truly interesting how EVERYONE gets along whether between litvish and chassidish, but chabad feels the need to fight everyone and prove how much they… Read more »

    to 38
    Guest
    to 38

    V’nahafoch Hu!!!!!! Since the misnagdim lost the war and battle they instigated against toras habaal shem in general and against the alter rebbe in particular they have a inferior complex. They then took out their magnifying glass and wherever they were able to spot a minhag that was inherent to chassidim and didn’t jive with their klein keppeldikiet they made a vayitzaku. it is a known fact that whenever litvishe meet chassidim before they even greet them they pose shailos. and not to find out the answer but rak al menas lekanter. They don’t fell threatened by satmar bobov vishnitz… Read more »

    Nonsense
    Guest
    Nonsense

    As a Lubavitcher who lives in Baltimore and knows some of the rabbonim at the star k personally I can say with complete certainty that they are incredible yorei shomayim and humble people who are not at all doing anything “just for the money.” They are kind sweet personable people who also happen to be big talmidei chachomim. Anyone who would meet them and spend just a little bit of time with them would never be able to say any of the things that people here have commented about the star k. Again, I know these rabbonim personally and anyone… Read more »

    #40
    Guest
    #40

    Isnt it just easier to blame the “misnagdim” for everything and claim that they are jealous? I mean its the easiest way to make ourselves feel better about ourself.

    agree with #40
    Guest
    agree with #40

    Also live in Baltimore & totally agree with the comment that #40 made!! Thank you!

    #39
    Guest
    #39

    It is heartwarming to see how you describe the characters of the rabbonim at the star k. Yet you still find it necessary to further prove your point by showing their connection to chabad as if without such a connection their status as erlicher yidden would remain in doubt.

    I’m #40
    Guest
    I’m #40

    Furthermore I strongly urge anyone who has any questions regarding the star k’s standards to give them a call at 4104844110. You might be pleasantly surprised to find out that there are a lot more things that you can eat.

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