Aug 10, 2011
CHK Stronghold is Challenged
From L: Rabbi Osdoba, Rabbi Schwei and Rabbi Braun

Demands are being made of Rabbi Avraham Osdoba, member of the Crown Heights Beis Din, to hand over the reigns of the CHK kashrus agency which he heads.

By COLlive reporter

The unsettled controversy surrounding the election of a new rabbi in Crown Heights is spilling over to the community's kosher supervision.

Demands are being made of Rabbi Avraham Osdoba, member of the Crown Heights Beis Din, to hand over the CHK kashrus agency which he has headed for close to a decade.

The calls came from two of his collegues Rabbi Yaacov Schwei and Rabbi Yosef Braun, who Rabbi Osdoba challenges the validity of his election this year.

Sam Chanin, a businessman hired by the community's elected body Vaad Hakohol to run its operations, called the three rabbis to discuss handing over the reins.

He wrote that he was following up on the agreement of Rabbis Osdoba and Schwei to obey any resolution of the Zabla Beis Din - the rabbinical court of five meant to resolve communal gridlock.

"It is clear from the psak of the Zabla that one rabbi should not have a sole hold on the kashrus, but should be under the supervision of the Beis Din as a whole," Chanin wrote.

The CHK, established in 1979 by volunteers, currently supervises approximately 45 companies, and employs about 75 mashgichim and shochtim, according to its website.

Rabbi Osdoba did not attend Chanin's meeting and instead wrote a letter pointing out that questions about Rabbi Braun's qualification are still under question.

At the heart of his concerns is the authenticity of the Smicha rabbinical supervision Rabbi Braun presented from his father and Rabbi Gavriel Zinner, a known Boro Park authority.

The document from Rabbi Braun's father was written with two colored pens raising the suspicion that it was forged and Rabbi Zinner says the said document was a recommendation and not an official ordination.

The Vaad Hakohol is holding back his pay until he agrees to sit on the Crown Heights Beis Din alongside Rabbi Braun (and Rabbi Schwei who backs him), Rabbi Osdoba's supporters told COLlive.com Wednesday.

Chanin is claiming that the Zabla Beis Din said, "Should there be any doubts or disagreements about the psak, both parties should return to the Zabla Beis Din."

Technically that cannot happen as the leading force behind the Zabla was Rabbi Binyomin Rosenberg of Monsey who resigned from the position, refusing to stay involved.

Before leaving, Rabbi Rosenberg dismissed doubts over the documents, giving the go ahead to the Vaad Hakohol to begin employing Rabbi Braun. (Both of Rabbi Braun's documents were reportedly torn by one of his supporters in "an act of confidence" in the rabbi.)

Rabbi Osdoba's demands for an inquiry is backed by two of Rabbi Rosenberg's colleagues who permitted him to go to another Beis Din to resolve the matter.

Rabbi Moshe Havlin of Kiryat Gat and Rabbi Binyomin Kuperman of Ramat Gan wrote in Sivan 5771: "It is clear that you cannot force one dayan to sit with another after he claims there is a fear of forgery in connection with the other."

They said, "All the complaints and accusations should be promptly heard in a Beis Din and clear everything until there will be an absolute and clear result."

Both parties have not agreed upon a neutral Beis Din and ignored summons commissioned by either side.


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Opinions and Comments
1
How long will it take till we're all eating TREIF!
That's what happens when people who know nothing about modern day halachik kasharus take over a kasharus company for monitary reasons.

Some will remember the scandal which took place many years ago, where the entire country was eating treif when one kasharus company took an account from another without having any idea of how to manage it. This will be much worse for Lubavitch because your talking about handing a kasharus company over to people who know absolutly nothing at all and have no experience in modern day kasharus.
(8/11/2011 3:11:40 AM)
2
2 clear Psaks!
you forgot one very important detail
that all these supposed "questions" on the Smicha, were already brought to the Zabl"a and they Pasked that there is nothing wrong with Rabbi Brouns Smicha!
to miss this detail and to continue to act as if there are still valid issues, is a blatant twist of the truth!
the fact is, there is no real argument that wasn't heard and ruled on by the Zabl"oand only the Zabl"o can decide if there is anything substantial.
so what to do? attack the Zabl"o itself and demand to go to a NEW Bais Din
yup, its hard to lose!
(8/11/2011 3:14:25 AM)
3
Questions
Just wondering why R' Osdoba negate to mention R' Rosenberg's psak, which followed his investigation, that the smicha was, in fact, valid... Second, you say that it's impossible for the BD to sit together because R' Rosenberg quit. R' Rosenberg was clear that if the other dayanim came to the States he'd be willing to reconvene. He was just tired of playing broken-telephone and in the process being trampled by Rabbi Osdoba's side. Finally, who gave it to Rabbi Osdoba in the first place that would allow him to hold it hostage pending his own acceptance of Rabbi Braun as Rov? It's a Badat"z institution and Rabbi Osdoba is just a member of the Badatz—not the institution itself. So for all of his issues with R' Braun, he still has no right to withhold the Kashrus from the Badatz. Especially because the original psak did NOT make this issue contingent on the election of a valid thrid rov, but found that Rabbi Osdoba's holding of the kashrus was completely illegitimate.

Personally, I think it's time for the Senior Member to retire. This situation cannot continue. We need a functioning Badatz and one member just refuses to allow it to function.
(8/11/2011 3:20:59 AM)
4
Sam?
Another beardless individual who will dictate to rabbonim what to do
(8/11/2011 3:48:11 AM)
5
nos
just another excuse for rabbi osdoba. when will the rabbanus stop being about politics and start being about the community?
(8/11/2011 4:03:28 AM)
6
Where are the Rabbonim
Where are these Rabbonie Hazablah when there are issues with their ruling???
(8/11/2011 5:43:08 AM)
7
CHK
About Time!!
(8/11/2011 7:06:12 AM)
8
Kashrus
How can we rely on this hashkocha???
(8/11/2011 7:24:06 AM)
9
OSDABO
MAKE A REFERONDUM FROM COMMUNITY MEMBERS IF THEY EVEN WANT RABBI OSDABA IN OFFICE.

IT LOOKS LIKE ALL MACHLOKES IN CH COMES FROM RABBI OSDABA.

PEOPLE IN CH ARE SICK OF OUR RABBIS FIGHTING.

LOTS OF PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY DONT RESPECT THE RABBIS.

HOW CAN YOU RESPECT THEM, THEY ARE CONSTINTLY FIGHTING.

RABBI OSDABA IF YOU CANT GET ALONG WITH OTHER RABBIS GET OUT, GO RETIRE.
(8/11/2011 7:24:31 AM)
10
to 2
Read Rabbi Havlin's letter and you will see otherwise.
(8/11/2011 8:07:41 AM)
11
emet
get it straight. If someone is not being yashar, then get out. Please show the community that you deal with these situations in a way that you believe in Torah.
(8/11/2011 8:17:00 AM)
12
THE LETZER DOR SPEAKS
IS THIS WILLiAMSBURG OR CROWN HEIGHTS.
ITS QUITE SIMPLE: LET RABBI OSDABA HAVE HIS DAY IN BEIS DIN. IF A FORGERY HAS BEEN COMMITED THEN HE IS VINDICATED, IF NOT HE IS DEGRADADED.
(8/11/2011 8:19:51 AM)
13
Only one Rov
Looking at these comments one can only hope that they are unaware that only one of these three was given a brocha by the Rebbe (remember him?!) to be on the Bais Din!
I know that most of Crown Heights have already rejected most of the Rebbes teachings, but so blatantly?!
I and most of my friends will not eat from a Hechsher run by someone who doesn’t even eat kosher, and where there is only ľ of a Rov as Rav Hamachser!
(8/11/2011 8:21:36 AM)
14
ch problem
we need rabbonim that people respect....a rav needs to stand on his own two feet and not act like a pupet....a rav needs smicha and simush and have lots of common sense....thats a rav that is respected.....
(8/11/2011 9:00:02 AM)
15
knew it!
I know Rabbi Braun my whole life back in his Sydney days.

I was waiting for this day.

I knew it was only a matter of time till he attempts taking over everything and manipulating things to suit him...
(8/11/2011 9:00:47 AM)
16
this was the plan
now everyone can see the plan, there was never a plan for achdus in the shvei camp, all they wanted was to get braun on their side so they can fight osdobo
(8/11/2011 9:04:51 AM)
17
Interesting….
Who is telling the truth?

There's a letter from Rabbi’s Havlin and Kuperman stating that the discussion of the 2 different pens in Rabbi Braun’s fathers semicha began only AFTER the psak.

On the other hand there was this letter of Rabbi Rosenberg dated 21 shvat 5771. In this letter, he writes that they clearly discussed it prior to the psak…

Interesting….
(8/11/2011 9:21:47 AM)
18
the full picture
I think that the Rabbi Rosenberg, Rabbi Yurkowitz & Rabbi Hecht) clearly dispute the claims made in the letter by Rabbi’s Havlin and Kuperman.

When you have a Beis Din, the majority rules. If these 2 Rabbonim don’t agree, it’s their privlage, but you must report the accurate facts. The majority of the Beis Din (zabla) heard the arguments about “2 different pens”, and dismissed it out of hand. Read Rabbi Rosenberg’s letter to Rabbi Osdobo where he lays this out quite clearly…
(8/11/2011 9:24:51 AM)
19
open a new hashgacha
the CHK is nothing worth anyway, open a new hashgacha
(8/11/2011 9:32:34 AM)
20
look into yourself if you truly respect rabbonim
do you respect rabbonim, period. or not? or do you only respect them if they do what you want them to do, or if you agree with them?
it's amazing how people run to praise the newly rabbonim, shwei and braun, rabbonim who the kohol wanted, and elected (say even that is was legal), saying how they are 'rabbonim,' etc. etc. and then use disrespectful language against HoRav Osdoba. if you were 1% honest with yourself, compare the election of Rabbi Osdoba, which was clearly undisputed, and received the brochos of the Rebbe, etc. (and also consider the track record of no machlokes with the other rabbonim, they were respectful to each other, worked together (though internally they had differences, they were still respectful and dealt with it in a professional way) ). now compare it to the recent elections... and now make an honest conclusion. (and especially decide who has the history of 'no machlokes').... (also consider the fact that the whole shwei... braun... is all about yechi, and instigated by 'peloni'... and unfortunately these rabbonim bend to the people, rather than leading (which is rabbi Osdoba's approach), and is the only reason, or at least the main reason, why many of you are so supportive of these newly rabbonim, because it works for you, rather than having an experienced rov, who was elected without any questions, rebbe's brochos, track record of no machlokes...
again - do you truly respect rabbonim if that's how you speak?
(8/11/2011 9:36:03 AM)
21
so sad :-(
CHK used to be one of the most trusted hechsherim in the industry. Today the giants, ou, ok,chof k, all use chk products on a case by case basis. Rabbi Levertov, told my husband that everything is status quo because there is no bais din. OY Meh Hoya Lonu :-(
(8/11/2011 9:51:13 AM)
22
V'yomer Eisav Yesh Li Rav
Based on his track record :

Osdbaba should be designated as the Avi Avos Bais Din,
(8/11/2011 10:02:57 AM)
23
explain please
can someone explain why they give a hechsher to 45 companies and have 75 mashgichim??? why so many mashgichim???
(8/11/2011 10:11:50 AM)
24
rabbi ozdoba
am with rabbi ozdoba 100%. this is so sad how the other 2 are treating a rov who the rebbe put in place until the coming of Moshiach
(8/11/2011 10:34:13 AM)
25
very important
who ever worked in kashrus or shechita plants knows how Rabbi Osdoba blindly listens and follows to political information without listening to the "victims" of his representatives. Rabbi Osdoba at the very least needs 2 rabbonim to keep him straight!
(8/11/2011 10:54:30 AM)
26
No Salary?
I am sure its worth giving up his salary for the hashgacha business, I mean otherwise why would he fight for the hashgacha rights
(8/11/2011 11:11:19 AM)
27
To #4
How sad when the beardless and bearded balei batim walk more in the derech of Torah and Chasidus than Rabonim mit langeh burds. Coming off of 9 B'av it remind me of some of the things we read about in aichah.

:(
(8/11/2011 11:16:50 AM)
28
ess zol kain yiden nit shatten
(8/11/2011 11:23:17 AM)
29
The mishichisten make letzunes of R Osdoba
Because he is no longer useful to them, now he is fodder to them. Shame on them!!!!
(8/11/2011 12:06:23 PM)
30
Boruch N. Hoffinger BS"D
I have a headache...too much!
I hope, BE"H the whole mess is solved in a peaceful way, NOW!
(8/11/2011 12:17:19 PM)
31
Please explain.
This article is not very clear.

1) There was a Zabla of 5 Rabbanim. All parties signed that all the issues will be heard ONLY by this Zabla, and no other Beis Din in the world can intervene in any of these issues or interpretation of the psak after the psak. Also all further issues arising from this must be decided ONLY by this very zabla.

2) The Din Torah was held. The Psak – actually 2 Psakim were issued.

3) Rabbi’s Havlin and Kuperman signed a letter that they certify that these 2 Piskey Dinim were in the name of the entire Beis Din.

4) In the Psak Din they clearly accepted the Semicha of Rabbi Tziner as 100% valid.

5) In the psak – in a footnote, they write about the 2dn semicha – from his fater and state that there is very good reason to state that It is 100% valid as well, but they will not get into it, because the Tziner semicha is sufficient.

6) In a letter from Rabbi Rosenberg to Rabbi Osdobo, dated 25 Shvat of this year, he answers to complaints that Rabbi Osdobo had. In that letter, specifically footnote 16, he articulates that the PRIOR to the Psak Din, the Beis Din discussed also the semicha from Rabbi Braun senior, and although they had not yet seen the original (at the time) they saw that 2 different pens were used, yet 4 out of 5 of the Rabbonim were of the opinion that it was 100% kosher and there was no reason to doubt it.

Now Rabbi’s Havlin and Kuperman are saying that since they got the oritinal AFGER the Psak was issues, therefore the “2 pens” complaint is still valid? Didn’t Rabbi Rosenberg write, and quote from an email from Rabbi Havlin? That they knew about this “2 pens” issue and had already decided that there was no problem….

Question: in a Zabla of 5 Rabbanim, what weigh does the opinion of 2 Rabbonim hold – when it is diametrically opposed to the opinion of 3 Rabbonim???
(8/11/2011 12:34:04 PM)
32
who made Mule king?
and besides r. Osdoba is the only one that was elected without machlokes... and the rebbe said they stay for life..
(8/11/2011 12:39:48 PM)
33
Strong follower of Rabbi Osdoba
I have supported him through thick and thin, but enough is enough! He is tearing this community apart!
(8/11/2011 12:54:25 PM)
34
Moshe
I didn't support Rabbi Braun Shlita in the election. But since he election, he is doing great work. I also noticed that there is only ONE member of the Beis Din who constantly oppose peace to happen in the shchunah, and it's Rabbi Osdoba Shlita. With all due respect, Rabbi Osdoba: if you don't want to work for the well-being of the shchunah, please do us a favor: resign and leave the Badatz. It seems that we will be better without you. I supported you for so many years and I would have never though that one day, I wouldn't support you anymore.
(8/11/2011 1:05:31 PM)
35
im looking forward
to a change of administration of kashrut in our community
(8/11/2011 1:19:11 PM)
36
Whoa
12: He DID have his day in court. He asked Rabbi Rosenberg to research the smicha, which led to Rabbi Rosenberg's psak. You can't have your day in court...and then have it again...and again.
13: Stick it. Your arguments are inane. Truly inane. (But I can't help my curiosity: who doesn't eat kosher?)
15 and 16: Actually, since R' Braun came here, R' Osdoba has put out like 10 letters against him, whereas Rabbi Braun hasn't even so much as replied. This is NOT a letter against Rabbi Osdoba. This is a letter demanding that the Kashrus be a badat"z institution and not a personal windfall. Rabbi Osdoba would get his share as well. Unlike Rabbi Osdoba, Rabbi Braun never attacked another rov—he's asking for what the community asked for, for what the din torah ruled, and for what he deserves.
(8/11/2011 2:09:37 PM)
37
Insider
ask any shochet/mashgiach in postville what they think about Zalman Osdoba ,Lebertov & Rabbi segal. then u will know why we need change !
(8/11/2011 3:03:29 PM)
38
what is going on,
isen't rabbi azdaba a lo tzayes ldina, of the zabla, and way dont rabbi kuperman and rabbi havlin come bake to the states and finish buisnes with rabbi rosenberg. not weite letters from israel.
(8/11/2011 3:19:57 PM)
39
To #1
...and you know this...how? Opinion or fact or Pashkvil?
(8/11/2011 3:53:59 PM)
40
i love rabbi braun but
i voted for rabbi braun but after seeing all the machlokos, i think its time for him to go back to sydney
(8/11/2011 4:49:47 PM)
41
WHY RABBI OZDOBA DOESN'T LISTENING TO THE DIN TORAH ??
Why Doesn"t Rabbi Ozdoba listening to the Din Torah??? , That told him to return the Hechsher to the CHJCC ,
this is the all fight !
(8/11/2011 7:26:50 PM)
42
Victimizing a Rov
Victimizing a Rov and causing tremendous pain are such serious actions that everyone in this community should be trembling with fear.
(8/11/2011 10:01:19 PM)
43
What is going on?
Even more concerning than the in-fighting between the Rabonim is the fact that from the agreement posted here, it seems that SC has almost complete control of all decision-making in this community (because he is managing/raising the funds). Who is this person? How did this person gain so much power over our community? Other than promising $, what qualifies him as a community leader of Crown Heights? Did the community elect him? We are arguing so much about which Rav was elected, but the real power is not with the Rav, but with UNELECTED people who are using the vacuum of leadership as a platform for their own agenda. Why aren't more people shouting/protesting this travesty? Who does Crown Heights belong to? The questions to be asked are not about who is Rav, but about who is pulling the strings behind the scenes. What is going on here? Chassidim - take back your town!!! Who is Sam Chanin?
(8/11/2011 11:10:09 PM)
44
A topsy turvey
First we hear: We are having elections to help Rabbi Osdoba. Really?
Second: Harav Hagaon R' Osdoba has hashgacha experience since the '70s.
Which other Rov has that under his belt???
Third: we are doiresh piles and piles of every word the rebbe said. However when the rebbe supported the election and said was very happy with the choice, we all sadly seem to forget.
Fourth: The Rebbe said before the elections that the reason he wants elections that no one will be able to say I don't like this rov. You voted and this is what you got.
Fifth: When the rebbe was around no one dared challenge any of the three rabbonim even though there were 'issues'. So much so that when one of the rabbonim did not get a certain aliya, the rebbe was not very happy.
WHY CANT THEY SOLVE THIS OUT OF THE MEDIA?
PLEASE I DONT NEED TO KNOW THIS. We dont need innocent people suffering!
(8/11/2011 11:48:58 PM)
45
Does any one have any idea
How many innocent people are chronically ill in CH???
Who is this benefiting?
(8/11/2011 11:52:31 PM)
46
To #39
From #1 FACT!
(8/12/2011 2:43:55 AM)
47
BS''D
We need Ahavas Yisroel, dont you see the YETZER HARA Fighting us? All we want, is Kosher food. Food so we can serve the Aibishter, nothing else. We are all simple Jews, Yidden are beautiful and we must love each other with a burning fire. Power and Kovod are just manipulations. Remember about what we are arguing here, and NOTE: Please dont spread Loshon Hara over this!!! Why must we fall into the hands of evil when we can all do so much good :)
(8/12/2011 3:05:24 AM)
48
Glad It's With Rabbi Osdoba
I'm glad to hear the kashrus is still under Rabbi Osdoba's supervision. I feel more trust in Rabbi Osdoba than the others. I also think the Vaad had no authority to sign the contract with Chanin. The Vaad was elected to hold positions, but was never given authority to delegate in such a manner.
(8/12/2011 7:07:24 AM)
49
Rav Osdoba Shlita truly has Beshat DShamaya
A mentch, Chossid and Yirei Shomayim. Please leave thus man alone to do his Heiliger job.

Stop the Russian mob.
(8/12/2011 10:27:55 AM)
50
SAVE CROWN HEIGHTS FROM CORRUPTION
How any normal person can read the contract between the Vaad & Sam Chanin, and not be revulsed is beyond me. This contract is a SHAM. It is crooked. Who elected the Vaad to give such decision making power-- regarding things we all regard as sacred-- to a single individual. Is the Vaad so sick as to appoint a virtual dictator to run our community matters? Do they have the right as officials elected by us to relinquish control over their elected responsibilites without our (the CH Jewish community's) say so?????

How much damage has to be done before we the people get the guts to say "STOP! "We have had too much corruption". I would like to hear from readers how we can realistically deal with this terrible and frightening situation.

Perhaps it is not yet too late to save our community.
(8/12/2011 1:26:34 PM)
51
stupidity 101
Why should r. osdoba not have to obey the ruling of a dintorah that HE HIMSELF agreed to?!
CHK should be boycotted until such time that RESPONSIBLE rabbonnim can oversee ALL aspects of it's functioning, the hashgocha, the kashrus etc. etc.
(8/12/2011 5:31:35 PM)
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