By M. Adler
It’s the story of so many young women and men. It’s known to anyone who went through the shidduch system or is still hanging around in it.
What should a good shidduch suggestion be based on? What do you think?
Most people will answer when asked what common sense dictates. A good suggestion should be based on first and foremost what matters to one’s daughter and son for a successful long-term marriage. Namely, the values of the individual being suggested (whatever values one believes are important, don’t matter).
Amongst their friends, teachers, and those that know them, they are very well-rounded individuals with many maalos. Yaarei Shamayim, menschlich, good midos, capable, etc. but that doesn’t matter they are overlooked. Why? Well, they are just “tier 2”.
Ask any shadchen how many suggestions the “tier 1” bochur or young woman get more than the “tier 2”. Is it 4 times as many or is it 5 times as many, or is it more?
A suggestion for one’s child is suggested to a parent. What is the overarching factor in deciphering if it is something to take interest in (let’s be honest)? Well, let’s see. Is this young woman or man in the “tier 1” or ‘tier 2” category? If it’s in the Tier 1 category, secondary inquiries can be made by calling the references to figure out more information. If they are in the tier 2 category, “not for us”.
Tier 1 = the last name on paper sounds right.
Tier 2 = the last name on paper doesn’t sound right/up to our standard.
B”h I married off 8 of my children already. They all are happily married into different families. Some into more known Lubavitch last names and some into less. One thing I can promise you, their current or previous last name doesn’t play a role in how their marriage is going, how they treat their spouse or kids, or how successful they are in their shlichus.
Yes, the obvious must be mentioned. Being that family life is a big factor in frum life it does matter the family your child marries into. After all, they will potentially be seeing them by yomim tovim, births, and bar/bas mitzvahs. However, if someone were to ask you for advice unrelated to your own children’s shidduchim. Honestly, what weight do you think the family last name or even the other individuals of the family suggested for my child should have, what would you answer?
No rush. Take your time and think….. is it 10% of the equation, 20%, 30%, or 40%?
One thing I can assure you will not answer is that it is 50% or higher. It is not the overarching first consideration. Your child marries their spouse, not the family (especially if they move on shlichus, where how many times a year do we see our kids in another state or country on shlichus).
What matters most in our own marriage and that of our children is that we have a good spouse. A good spouse may mean different things to different people, but for many, it includes a menschlich, kind, capable individual with similar values. Whatever the maalos may be, the maalos of the spouse are the most important and biggest factor.
I’m not very into the “tier 1” and “tier 2” mindset. Though, if it’s going to be let’s rethink it.
Tier 1 = The young man or woman has good qualities that make for a good spouse.
Tier 2 = The young man or woman can work on different things
Once the above is known, then secondary important things can be thought about. Such as what their family is like (and let’s be smarter and throw out the ridiculous concern of the sounding of the last name on paper and how the sounding of it reflects on our stature).
Let’s champion good marriages where two quality individuals produce a good marriage. And let’s keep the most important issues in front of us and the secondary as secondary.
Couldn’t agree more!!
As they set out from their place above, each soul is male and female as one. Only as they descend to this world do they part, each to its own side. And then it is the One Above who unites them again. This is His exclusive domain, for He alone knows which soul belongs to which and how they must reunite.
– Zohar (Book I, 85b)
let go everyone let go bring it on let’s be nice it’s the 3 weeks
Never heard of “Tiers” before, but certainly lots of TEARS— No more! Thank You, Hashem, i was a BT in shidduchim for years but then became happily married and have already gotten to see a child married and bezH more to follow. Praying and thanking for all of Hashem’s children, each meeting the other half of his or her very own soul and establishing bayis ne’eman with shalom bayis: We can’t do it in our own. We all go to Hashem. This is true in modern orthodox circles where I spent some time and people pay no attention to who… Read more »
If only people were as quick to make shidduch suggestions as they are to buy a nosh, we would see the third Beis Hamikdash.
Thanks. A rhyme in time. Fact is, less has to do with externals— other people redting shidduchum, though that is a chessed that can help with shidduchim and bringing Moshiach, or parents from a different generation “getting it” to run shidduchim just right (parents are not the Eibeshter) or how the shidduch system and shadchans — who work so hard and are also not the Eibeshter to be perfect— should “change”. All has to do with the single’s personal work on relationship with Hashem and people to get ready to meet, recognize, and appreciate the zivug. We don’t see the… Read more »
the Chafetz Chaim’s books on lashon hara
Some editing, punctuation, and properly-structured sentences and paragraphs would go a long way in making your message understood. I’m having a hard time figuring it out like this.
Maybe you need to concentrate more on it .
Perhaps you’re also in the middle of reading a paper or looking at your messages?
I agree
Wonder why.
Its funny, how people see things differently . Right before I read your comment, I was thinking, that was great article! love the style. Strong message, in a unique way of expressing herself.. go figure.
There are problems in families who have pedigree ( if anything they may hide it to prevent reputation damage) and there are so called ” nobodies” who have beautiful stable role model families and vice versa. While family is a factor I agree. It’s time we withhold suggestions based on family because who said your son /daughter would even care should they meet the wonderful suggestion made based on character and not name
Exactly
This is very true. However; often times these children grow up in the system and have the pressure to marry a specific type. Once they are grown they are afraid to break out of the mold. Imagine being a BT or Ger in CH… It doe not matter how modest/ conservative of a background you have – you are below even tier 2.
how dare you slander BT
you need to do severe Teshuvah
Based on how my family went through shidduchim, I feel I am obligated to agree with this sentiment. Just date, and see if it’s a match, enough with this game of go fish.
Reality is: tier 1, you’ve mentioned good qualities in a spouse and wanting to look into it as a potential. Something is wrong with this sentence. Majority of mothers are not looking for good quality partners for their children. They are looking for son/daughter in laws to fold and mold into their values and qualities which ( let’s be honest, are not good). How about rethink mindset: 1. If the young adult is old enough to take responsibility to get married, let them do it on their own without mothers having their full control of the suggestion. 2. What’s this… Read more »
This is the whole purpose of shudduchim!
Parents looking very closely into who this person is that’s being suggested for their child!!
We do a very intensive search which doesn’t involve our feelings towards the potential candidate.
I do a very thorough search.
Like Yom Kipour, until I am satisfied that this person and family are really possibly compatible for our child.
Our child makes the decision.
Any other way is a disaster
This is not the purpose of shidduchim to mold future in laws into who you want them to be. Your purpose is to encourage your son or daughter to reach their true potential and a lot of times mothers dont want that. They want them to be them. And yes they aren’t children anymore – you have to let them go! Oh and btw the “child” doesnt make the decision, it was decided before she or he even went on a date. It’s more like finalizing then deciding. To want to mold future spouses into you, THAT’S the disaster. Whos… Read more »
How are feelings not involved when youre looking for the future spouse of your child…?
And feel the feelings of love for your child and that you’d want to do what makes THEM happy. Not you
How can you possibly know that your search was thorough enough and this person is truly compatible.
Sounds like you’re relying way too much on your own sechel and powers.
you don’t have ruach hakodesh or prophecy, and you are not Hashem. So how would you know who the soul the child is supposed to marry is?
This is so true
You’re emesdike qualities are showing.
In your Tier 2 you write that the person may still have things they need to work on.
Are you suggesting that in your Tier 1 person he/she has nothing to work on and are just perfect?!
I think what she meant to say is putting in the work as apposed to not trying to improve themselves
Tier 2 here. As a 23 year old, I’ve been rejected by a number of families because of my tier 2 status. 5 years later, I’m getting “pre-approved” suggestions from some of these same families. In tier 1s’s defense, I want it say that there is a value in familiarity. It’s harder to do research when someone is completely foreign and so is everyone on their resume. In my personal experience, I’ve, admittedly, rejected profiles because I didn’t know anyone in the resume and couldn’t figure out any mutual connections. That in combination with the fact that the profile didn’t… Read more »
You started dating when you were 18?
Do you know the community we live in…?
I’m a tier 2, and honestly, sometimes when a tier 1 is suggested for me, I begin to wonder why. Meaning maybe there is something wrong with them if they are interested in me
So relatable. Must be something wrong with them if they’re interested in ME.
Someone once came over to me and told me she’s divorced and was trying to warn me that if someone seems to be marrying “way up” or too excited about you, be suspicious.
One time a potential shidduch came up and they were way excited about me. I was suspicious why are they so excited there was seemingly no major commonality or obvious compatibility from the research or resume. Turned out he had a major disability that was being hidden by family and shadchan.
no one should accept the titles of ‘tier’. that’s contributing to an evil system
also, how do you know if sometimes there’s actually Not something wrong with the person and the person suggesting was just not buying into an evil ‘tier system’?
Is this article suggesting not to marry gezhe??? Im horrified!! How low have we swooped!!!
lol
It’s talking about how there are different tiers. Imagine blacks and whites in the 30s that a white person wouldn’t marry someone black because of race. This is similar to how it is with people from so called “good families” (gezhe) and people from “unknown families”
I have married kids and kids still in shidduchim and have never heard of this tier system.
In my experience, family plays an important role in what kind of spouse a single will be. When two singles come from families with similiar values and backgrounds, they are likely to have more in common, thus increasing the chances of it being a possible shidduch.
but you don’t know who someone’s soul mate is
LETS NOT KID OURSELVES, THIS IS CHABAD, THERE IS ONLY ONE TIER AND THAT IS TIER 2. EITHER THE CHILD HAS A GHEZE NAME OR FROM RICH FAMILY. IT DOESN’T EXIST IN ANY OTHER MOISAD. BUT IF CHABAD GHEZE ARE OFFERED A CHILD FROM A WEALTHY FAMILY WHO ARE, IN CHABAD TERMS, “NOBODIES”, OR “BTs”, THEY WILL GRAB IT WITH BOTH HANDS, IRRESPECTIVE IF THE FATHER HAS NO BEARD, DOESNT WEAR A KAPOTE, AND MOST OF THE EXTENDED FAMILY ARE BT OR EVEN FREI, . LETS NOT KID OURSELVES SHADCHONIM KNOW IT. ONLY WAY TO MAKE SHIDDUCHIM TODAY IS THROUGH… Read more »
Forgot to turn off all caps. No need to scream!
You just said it all.
The only thing that matters today is your name and/or how much money you have.
What happened to the days where “we will get married & Hashem will help with the rest”? It wasn’t really that long ago.
that is why i am here still single and feeling like an outsider since my family is no one gezh or annything.
Yet i work on myself constantly and have so much to offer. But no. Hashem help, rebbe help
Lots of hatzlacha. When Hashem wants it to happen, it will in its own time. And that will be the perfect time for you.
In the meantime, be who YOU are. Don’t change anything. Your bashert will be looking for YOU not someone else.
There are many, many, many singles today who are not gezhe or from rich families, and are not “machers,” nor are their families. But like you, they have a great deal to offer and work on themselves constantly. Hashem, with the Rebbe’s brachos, should help you find one of these terrific singles and be happy forever!! If the shadchan you’re working with only sets people up if they are gezhe and rich, you’ve got to find the other shadchanim who are just looking for a stable mentch to marry off to another stable mentch.
those with money, outside of Ghezh, become ghezh with their bank accounts!
YESSSSSSSSSSS
WOULD LOVE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU! YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!
Glad you wrote it in caps cos it’s the truth that some people choose to ignore
Please write an op ed Mrs arbor! Without mentioning any names we all know what you’re saying is so true
You are correct about narrow mindedness. You are correct about the “name” vs “no name” but where you make a huge error and a dangerous error for some is to think that they in fact don’t marry the family. Let me explain. A person married their spouse that much is correct. But with that spouse is inherited the high level of potential dysfunction and family trauma they may have had growing up. I’m not talking about abuse. I’m talking about dysfunction, loveless marriage parents, cold emotions, and then yes of course toxic family that may be too attached or arrive… Read more »
Research these things. But don’t expect gezhe to play a role in any of this healthiness or lack thereof.
Because they are the source?
I married into the most gezhe family possible and turned out my husband is controlling and abusive! Worst of all his family enables him. I will certainly not be looking for gezhe for my children. I will be focusing on their middos and temperament. Unfortunately I learned this very important lesson the hard way. But still happy to have learned it bh!
Take care of yourself
I pray you got a divorce and aren’t living with an abuser
biggest fear
I hope things work out for you.. sending love
This 100%!
I actually have to agree
But sometimes the girl/boy have the world to offer and the family will really behave. Give them a chance.
Let’s be real,
People have struggles, people have differences, shouldn’t the priorities be where you are headed to, which path your taking, and what tools you have to get to the destination?
As a tier 2 single, I dated some tier 1 people (why I merited to, I’m not sure) and we had some things in common, but we didn’t relate so much because we came from different worlds. My spouse has a very similar background to me (also tier 2) and felt so familiar to me. The way of speaking, the way of growing up, the family style…
At the end of the day, your chesronos to one family will be your maalos to the right people. I saw that so clearly.
Why THEY merited you is the question
My daughter was suggested the same boy from a few different sources. When I suggested it to the Shadchan she replied oh they won’t go for it, basically you are not the family they are looking for. It was obvious she was concerned it would not look good on her part to suggest it. She was only worried about her herself not even caring if it was a great idea. We then had a friend suggest it and the family wee actually very interested. Shadchonim do great work but they are very much looking to suggest the family they think… Read more »
This is not always true. I suggest shidduchim sometimes, and I will put my foot in my mouth and embarrass myself because one side may think “es passt nisht far unz” and think I’m off the wall, but I’ll do it anyway. In fact, I just did it this afternoon! But I don’t care. Helping the singles, especially if they’ve been in the parsha for a few years, is the main thing. And the girl I redd a shidduch for is a terrific girl who’s over 35 years old, so I don’t care what her father could think! But if… Read more »
As someone who’s been around the process for quite a while, I can clearly say that all the quote on quote “research” that the parents are doing into the prospective shidduch are basically pointless. There is a very minute amount of information you can actually learn from placing a couple calls. And Frankly, it is quite terrifying having ur child go out with someone who you never have heard of aside from their resume and the five people you spoke to. This is not to say that having heard of a family is a guarantee that the family is clean… Read more »
Tier 1 marries tier 1. Tier 2 marries tier 2. You have the same values ,system and mindset on life.
When tier 1 has a boy with issues and wants to get rid of the problem by focusing tier 2 girl to change (since she doesnt have a name or status obviously she is the problem, not you or your son) so that SHE will mold in the family “issues”. THATS when the problem crashes. You made your son, stick him to his own kind. Dont do girls any “favors” just because you are getze.
sounds like a caste system
not the solution.
how about if EVERY JEW observes the entire Torah perfectly
perfects all their middos
develops ruach hakodesh (as a byproduct of this perfect observance)
and THEN everyone can automatically recognize their true bashert, regardless of ANY externalities.
see the soul that is inside. the human brain is limited.
My friends and I had many discussions as Bochurim and I see it now that we’re married, you very often are marrying the family and it’s a big part of it. A lot of men live by the woman’s parents/ family and have to deal with that if they’re not as he wants even if his wife is perfect. And even as you said going on shlichus there are still the simchos as mentioned and the constant face times nowadays. I see clearly it is very tough to live your life when it is not a good family.
Why assume that a tier 2 family (BT, etc) is less of a good family just bc they are tier 2???!!!
first of all, the correct term is tinok shinoshba. BT are people who were raised frum who left the Torah on their own volition and then came back. Instead of judging tinok shinoshbas so terribly, maybe all those who judge(d) should instead go to each tinok shinoshba jewish baby at birth, and convince their parents starting from birth to raise them frum, to not allow them to go to public school, and do this every day for every jewish baby! And if not, you cannot judge at all!!!!! For all you know, that soul might be on a higher level… Read more »
Loop is the new app where EVERYONE can be a shadchan. Whether you are single or married you just add friends to your loop and suggest them for each other. It doesnt matter if you dont know much about the other side bc its just a suggestion. I’ve never had as many “shidduch” suggestions in my entire dating career as I do on the app. if either side is interested, they can do futher research
I love when people tell me “why don’t you marry a BT” I’m sorry but when your pool is 10 different girls that you get sent repeatedly and none of them fit do you think that just going for BT is an option?
this is total slander of BT
There is something seriously wrong with all the people who liked this comment and slandered BT in this thread.
As a Tier 3 candidate (ex convict) i feel personally offended by not even being mentioned.
This is a personal choice that wasn’t something positive. It’s understandable compared to a BT or Ger who decided to do the holy thing and something positive.
Always love coming to col comment section
I guess you would call me a Tier 1 (family Chabad family, gheze, and all that) so please take this with a grain of salt. How about we do away with tiers altogether? Yes, marriage is about the future, it’s also about finding our partners who will hopefully bring out the best in us and help us with the rest. Given the 3 weeks time period we are currently in, how about we do away with borders that don’t help and further create distances. As others have said, Tier 1 families have just as many issues / problems / stuff… Read more »
you are living in the times of moshiach!!!
Hashem should bless you!! Please help us children of tier 2 families who really are shtark and are ready to blend in! We are stuck
the author groups decides how other people work and in this they are doing the same thing they are saying is wrong about others
I’m tier 1 and by the time I got married I dated about half tier 1 and half tier 2. TBH, I found the tier 1’s to be decent people on paper but boring/blah once I met them. We were never anywhere near the same page and I ended up rejecting most after date 2 or 3. I then pushed my mother for me to be more involved in the search process and after pushing the Mamehh to consider tier 2, it all worked out so well BH. Here’s an idea: have your child involved from day one. Let them… Read more »
how can someone even say “I’m tier 1”?
I have heard this term much, much, much more from people who are not what is considered ‘gezh’ than from the people that are what is considered ‘gezh’. Do you know what the word “gezha” means”? Gezha in Hebrew mean the trunk of a tree, as in a the tree a person come from, their lineage. Is there something wrong with someone being inspired by those that came before them? We all come from many places and Hashem wants it like this. It is very good for everyone to be proud of the positive traits and accomplishments of who they… Read more »
As a 30+ year old single who would be considered Tier 1 I find most of what is being written here utter BS, I have multiple older friends who you may consider both tier 1 and 2 and, and all of them are having the same difficulty in shiduchim
1. Can you please encourage your friends to look a year or 3 years older then themselves? What’s this unrealistic expectation? And this is not a name issue. if you knew this young women personally you would go out with her. It’s called knowing her. Why stop at age? Do we have to lie about our age just to stop this nonsense? 2. Why are certain bochurim STILL having their mothers be in charge? I see a profile and if his mother is in charge to be in contact with, I dismiss it. Honestly?!
The Rebbetzin is older than the Rebbe. And I know of other matches where the girl is older. And what about things like height differences? I also know of people who married a wonderful spouse because they were open to someone from a divorced home who has a well worked out personality, more than some from “intact” families who might not feel the need to learn and grow as much in that area. The list goes on of matches to consider rather than limiting options. Sometimes it’s the parent/s. Sometimes it’s the singles. All could do well by broadening options… Read more »
Yes!!!!!
I think the root of the problem is the correct souls are not finding their genuine other half, whether it be from people not allowing or suggesting them to meet for whatever human reason, or from one soul being with the wrong person already. People need to see and navigate shidduchim from their souls more than their human animal self. It has to be intuitive and spiritual. We have to figure out how to connect the correct souls. We need more rabbis (alive in the physical world) with genuine ruach hakodesh being involved in the process of matchmaking. The kind… Read more »
The stories are nice but have rarely heard of such stories in chabad or my grandfather who was a known chassidic tzadik/rebbe
Tier 1 & 2 ?
arent Jews supposed to be Jews?.
I know more so called tier 4 and 5 better than fake 1 & 2
yeshivas want top 10% elite. Who says the so called 10% are even top ?
The shluchim of the past nowadays wouldn’t even be allowed in yeshiva
i also dont get how people are not embarassed to grade other people into “tier 1” and “Tier 2” … everyone has their issues, to each his own – but to turn this into public matter- i find it quite ridiculous. wanna get your tier 1 A+++ PLATINUM candidate? go get it. but dont make it into a public matter. no one cares.
I honestly don’t think that most people have ever even thought of others like that
something must be wrong, when on this website, there is such a small amount of engagement announcements. with the lubavitch community worldwide being the size it is, there should be dozens of engagements every day.
each shall seek their own kind, it makes most sense.
Alot of the Israeli shiduchim are not announced on here
A Shidduch should never ever be presented to……..Well your marrying the Girl/Boy, and” NOT THE FAMILY ” It’s a big mistakes Shadchonim and others do. It does a lot of damage to the couple who are getting married. And can lead to divorces. Who is there to blame?? A Shidduch phone call should think, who’s the Boy/Girl/ and do both families match together? A blindfolded Boy and Girl is a whole different story. Just my opinion. (Who ever would represent a Boy/Girl to get Married, please have the sense to do it right the first time) And if doesn’t work… Read more »
As a shadchan I feel so sorry for the singles today that have to produce the best possible photo to showcase themselves and be presented and judged as if they are in some furniture catalog! The mothers or even worse the actual bochurim receiving these profiles/PHOTOS are quick to voice their opinion with “ I don’t FEEL IT” or “I’m not attracted to her”. Etc How in earth can a photo do justice to a person? It’s JUST A PHOTO! It is 1% representing them and 99% a cold raw representation of their face. IT IS NOT WHO THEY ARE!!!!… Read more »
Everyone before pictures says if I would have seen a picture I would not have gone out with my spouse. A picture means nothing !!!!!!!! The Shadchonim are the only ones that can put a stop to it.
yea, get rid of the photos
From now on let’s have seperate groceries, schools, and merkos for the Tier 2 people.
All Tier 2s to the back of the bus on the way to camp.
Everyone Tier 2 gets a special sticker they have to wear all over CH.
Like minded people stick together and may they not taint the Tier 1s.
Lchaim.
I could write many books of growing up from such radical different parents I guess that’s what makes me me and is forcing my family to see alot more things in the mirror 🪞 Gezh is beautiful and powerful and I remember living my life shutting that down to be humble but in the end of the day I have certain sensitivities that others don’t understand At the same time BTs have alot less inhibitions internally If someone is pushing to do the right thing thats wonderful but we need BTs to show us how to have an authentic self… Read more »
“The Rebbe invited BTS” Why do these conversations turn into gezh and BTS. lubavitches come from every Jewish background ,traditional Jews after the Holocaust, litvish, Mizrachi, Ashkenazim, sefardim, and the list goes on and on. Lubavitch is not made up of gezh and BT, there are thousands of lubavitches from all over the world Israel, South Africa, Australia, England, that came to lubavitch and chassidus chabad, nobody came because they were received formal invitation.( by insinuating that the rebbe invited BTs or anyone) you are literally calling one Chossid better than the next. I think a practical solution is to… Read more »
just because this is your experience in your fmaily doesn not mean that that is how all people are from those backgrounds
Hashem made this shidduch, like every shidduch, based on the neshama; and unlike some shidduchim, not as clearly by externals. Your sharing is very interesting. Love how you see and share the advantage of different backgrounds in a marriage adding positively to the marriage and the children’s potential experience.
This is just another social justice campaign, trying to liberate the “oppressed/discriminated” tier 2s from the “privileged” upper class tier 1s.
Shidduchim is SUPPOSED TO BE a selfish system. We choose a spouse because of commanalities. Throwing differences aside isn’t always the best idea or common sense.
Trying to bring out open mindedness isn’t accomplished by placing labels.
Tier 1 and Tier 2 “classification” is far more complex than gezhe and non-gezhe. It’s all about perception. Tier 1 can be money, pedigree, physical attractiveness, head counselor, hugely popular, etc. (the gezhe/ non-gezhe lines have been blurred in recent years and you’re seeing alot of “intermarriage.”) Perhaps the bigger issue is parents of “Tier 2” kids holding out for “Tier 1” offers and not thinking beyond the box because it doesn’t make them feel good to know they or their children are “Tier 2” for whatever reason. Personally, I would encourage parents to try to say Yes a lot… Read more »
Usually it’s the other way around. Usually the tier 1 looks for tier 2 kids, only to be given a highly issued kid and want to get rid of the problem. And tier 2 must feel lucky to get a tier 1 with issues, because the mother in law said so. It’s like there are more girls then boys excuse. Problems come from tier 1. Tier 2 tries to follow up only to be deceived. Solution: tier 1 sticks to tier 1 and tier 2 stick to tier 2.