About two weeks ago, a very controversial article was published on COLlive.com, drawing many varied opinions. ‘Beauty in Criticism’ seemed to hit a raw nerve, as do most op-eds that touch upon the extremely sensitive topic of Tznius. I personally admire the author, whoever she is, and the points she had to make, although I am far from the level of accepting criticism so beautifully as she is.
I feel that whilst some of the responses were in answer to very minor issues the author mentioned and had nothing to do with the message of the writing, the comments raised other, important issues. I’d like to explore one of those issues.
The writer admitted at one point that she was unsure as to whether her personal infractions with Tznius would have a negative effect on the girls she has a connection with. She agreed that her ‘lack’ needed to be worked on and it was obvious from the article that she is indeed working on it. At the article’s conclusion, a letter from the Rebbe convinced her to persevere in her youth work, because the good that she was doing would effect them in many ways and would end up having a positive effect on her at the same time.
Many readers picked up on this nuance and fired insult and disbelief at her ‘audacity’ and ‘selfish’ attitude. Many complained that it is not fair that their daughters have ‘role models’ of this kind- teachers, counselors, directors- girls who are lacking in their own Tznius and then parade it in front of today’s impressionable youth. They lamented the fact that staff members in schools dress in a questionable manner whilst the students are, rightfully so, reprimanded on their Tznius deficits.
I appreciate the disappointment. I understand where these mothers are coming from. Today’s world in general, but I’m talking specifically about the Chabad world, is slowly experiencing a downward spiral. Our level has gone down, and has been going down for a while. It must be frightening for a parent to watch their own values and beliefs being thrown away by their offspring. And so fingers are pointed, willing to blame anyone and everyone. Teachers and educators are always high up on the list of accusations.
The problems, the issues are real and I don’t believe any amount of discussion on COLlive will make any of them go away.
But it does give one food for thought.
When I read the disparaging comments mentioned above, I immediately thought of: First, my own role models throughout my life; then, myself. I happened to have attended a Lubavitch school in the States that maintained very high standards when it came to the way teachers dressed, largely because of the community the school was serving, which tends to be a little stricter and less accepting than some other Lubavitch communities around America. My teachers were dressed in a very aidel way, (in my opinion, a little plain), but they were definitely not exhibiting the wrong message in any way.
There was one older girl, a counselor in camp and then later, a youth leader, who the girls looked up to more than others. I don’t want to say it was because she took more interest in her appearance than our other ‘role models’ did, but at the same time, I guess I am saying it. I remember as a teenager always discussing this particular counselors’’ clothing with my friends and admiring her taste, wishing secretly that I could emulate her one day. Let me mention that this counselor/ leader took part in organizing all the chassidish programs, farbrenged with us about very real topics and really affected us in the ruchnius sphere.
One happy day, this girl got engaged. We, the girls who admired and looked up to her, celebrated and took part in her joy and excitement. Time passed and before we knew it, she had stopped working in the community and left to get married.
Then something happened. Those who saw her in the time between her marriage and her leaving to a new location, began whispering about her sudden ‘new’ way of dress. I wont go into detail, but she began sporting clothing that she would never have worn whilst working in liaison with the school and community. Her sheitel, her skirt lengths, the color of her nail polish, necklines- all of this changed the minute she married and parted from the job she had. I remember the confusion, the shock and our indigent reactions to her ‘post-marriage’ appearance. We talked about the show she had put on and the double act she had been playing.
I am now a teacher in the same school I grew up in. I too, like the writer of the other op-ed, struggle with certain areas of Tznius, (as I suspect many girls our age do- it is the Yetzer Horah of our generation). But I promised myself one thing when I began teaching: As a role model, I would not be two faced. I would not pretend to be someone I was not. The girls I teach will see that am a regular person, who has her falls and her triumphs, her strong points in yiddishkeit and her battles.
How?
Of course, being a teacher in this same school meant that I had to abide by certain rules. And I was happy to abide by these rules. I wear clothing that is attractive (not attracting), becoming and stylish. I definitely dress different than the other teachers because I happen to have a greater interest in clothing than they. If I was ever admonished by the school body, I immediately took great care with making sure that particular ‘lack of tznius’ didn’t happen again, even if I personally thought it was over the top. I respected that I had made a choice to teach in this school and therefore needed to be on top of myself when teaching there.
But here is my point to those disappointed mothers. The girls wear a uniform when they go to school. Do they wear that uniform when they attend a program? No. Do firemen wear their protective suits when they sit down to supper with their kids? No. Do Bochurim wear their hats and jackets when they play soccer? No.
So when I am out of school and not within the ‘teacher’ role, yes, I will wear my jean skirt (dark) and my darker nail polish and my hair loose (which is not permitted amongst the staff). I have certain skirts that may be a half inch shorter than the ones I wear for school (still below the knee) and others that are slightly tighter than the ones I wear for school. Am I ever un-Tznius? No. Am I giving off the wrong impression? No, I honestly don’t think so. I am simply showing the girls that when in a certain position, certain things are expected of you, tighter rules are enforced. I am trying not to be two faced and ‘holier than thou’. I do not go out of my way to prove that I dress differently than in school, but I do not feel bad either if a student meets me in a store, park, or street.
I believe I have a lot to give these girls, despite my less than ultra chassidish way of dress and I do believe they respect me for this.
When I think of the disappointment I felt in my ‘role model’- the counselor who inspired me to be better and then showed her true colors- I hope that by being true to myself and yet acting within the correct borders, I will be able to influence my students and at the same time, impress upon them the concept of beauty within the boundaries of Tznius.
Last night I received a letter from the mother of one of my students. It read:
Dear Miss ____________.
I would just like to take this opportunity and thank you so very much for giving Sarah a positive year in learning this year. She gained a lot! Hope you had a great summer.
Best wishes,
Mrs. ___________________.
Not quite a letter from the Rebbe, but a pretty powerful one all the same.
Hello out there; Any volunteers to start a GIRLS Program?? If the girls would have positive outlets ie programs that promote FUN with Chayas and learning, you will de facto get girls to want to be more tznius. This was done a number of years ago with HIGH School girls and worked. I challenge Seminary or young married woman who want to make a difference and give back to the community, instead of going OUT on Shlichas, stay here and do Shlichas. Make programs for junior high school and high school girls motzie shabbos. Do shabbatons, projects, zumba., creative Arts.… Read more »
I wonder, did you ever call up a Rov and ask him if dark nail polish is tzniusdik? I think we lost the whole idea of tznius and we are passing down to the next generation a mixed message about tznius. as a teacher i want to tell you that there no such a thing as “school uniform” ki heim chayeynu this is our way of life and this what we want to give over to our students. i was wondering , imagine you are standing in line by the Rebbe for dollars, how would you feel recieving a dollar… Read more »
stay tznuis. be strong. bring moshiach.
With G-d’s help and with my guidance my daughter will grow up to be an aidel and tznius young lady. I wish the same for your own daughter. The important thing is to not give up on her (not saying that you are). In order for us to continue to instill in our children the beauty of tznius, we have to be an example for them. This means we have to be very careful how we dress in front of our children. Although we may be covering all pertinent areas, very tight clothing that shows the outline of our bodies… Read more »
B”SD
I have noticed that when the girls pick a mechaneches, though I would expect them to go for the younger more fashionably dressed mechanchos, I am always surprised that they seem to feel more comfortable with a genuine, caring dugma chaya. I think the criteria is not how one dresses, I mean fashionably of course it has to be tznius, but if there is emes, and gentleless and mostly caring.
Badatz Tries To Reinforce Community Tznius. Rabbi Aharon Yaakov Schwei and Rabbi Yosef Braun, members of the Crown Heights Beis Din …
google ” schwei braun tznius ” for what daas torah has to say!
open your eyes. Chabad and Satmer have made peace. Our Mashgichim work together, our kids play together. You, on the other hand would keep the hate going – as long as you don’t have to dress appropreaely. How sad.
the Rebbe endorsed the sefer “kevuda bas melech”. let’s at least do that much.
Hashem should help us
The difference between a fireman and you, is that he can go home and be his real self; while you as a teacher, are a dugmah chaya. You, as the word itself implies, are TEACHING the new generation though your acts.
If you dont feel like you can be a dugmah chaya, maybe teaching is not what you’re supposed to be doing…
I would be very surprised to see an untznius daughter if the mother doesn’t 1. look down at those who are dressed in an obviously less than fashionable way or/and are overweight. 2. Does not respect their teachers
3. speaks loshon Hara at home
As parents, we teach through our vibes.
We are one community with one Torah, one shulchan aruch,and one Rebbe. We all should be trying to the best of our ability to follow all the mitzvos that are in the Torah, written in the shulchan aruch, and spoken about by our Rebbe. It isobvious by all these posts that many women and girlsare finding it very difficult to follow the halachos of tznius. The post that said we will find ourselves with two communities may not realize that this burning issue of tznius is affecting each and every family in Crown Heights. Mothers, Mother-in-laws, sisters and sister-in-laws are… Read more »
A person can be tzniusdik without dressing W’burg style. The point though, is that there is a noticeable trend in Crown Heights to dress not only untzniusdik but outright trashy. These people have managed to instill the value of tznius and while part of it might be that they expel anyone who doesn’t comply, part of it might also be that they have managed to pair tznius with good self-esteem. What would it hurt to find out? The community at this point really listens to no one. Teachers are obviously getting into power struggles with students who feel that the… Read more »
Every time I read the comments on a COLlive op-ed I can’t help but feel this community is illiterate. More than half of the readers consistently miss the finer points of an article and read what they want to read, not what is actually written.
We all need to go back to third grade and work on our BASIC READING COMPREHENSION.
The impression I got is that when she leaves – she doesn’t change the level of tznius just the style of clothing! It is the difference between wearing business clothes in the office, and casual yet nice clothes after work. She is saying she dresses the part of a teacher at school, and at home she is tznius, but dresses more like a 20 whateveryear old. That she thinks it is important that the girls see that you can respect your boundaries and dress with a bit more of your own style when you’re off duty.
As someone who grew up in a non chabad comunity I can truly see the malos and chesronos that the different community’s have to offer, in the general frum community the “in” and “cool” [and thus the “normal”] way of dress is that of elegant or “chasidesh” styles which are both very tziniusdik, yet there is no nision by them because that is their Environment and they want to fit in. On the other hand in Chabad Schooling, the emphasis is on Pnimius and truly understanding and appreciate being a yid, and be truly ready for taking on the world,… Read more »
The women who “would-be” paragons of tznius often looks dowdy and don’t pay attention to the way they dress. In W’burg the women look much to MATRONLY. You will see 22 year old women looking as though they are 45. We don’t need that, either. And in W’burg they also think women driving and face makeup is not tznius. So we need to have OUR OWN standards of tznius k’halacha and women who exlemplify this standard while not looking “nerdy”!!!
The reason why you have to be tznius in school as a teacher is because that is the proper thing to do, even outside of school.
A fireman doesnt have to be a fireman when hes not on duty and therefore doesn’t have to whereas you have to be tznius regardless even when you’re not a playing your role as a teacher.
Theres a reason why you have to be tznius in school…..
You have a point.
However tznius is tznius and cant be abandoned when your not teaching. What do you show your students? Its ok to dress not tzniusdik when your not in school
? Its ok if your away from ch on vacation??
Telling us Lubavitchers to be more like those in Williamsburg is the biggest turn off ever!!! All our life we are taught to be proud to be Lubavitch and suddenly these people are saying…. actually no, we are not proud.. we are shame faced… this will NEVER EVER encourage anyone to be more tznius so let go of that idea and please stop pumping that negative message. Instead, let us inspire ourselves to be MORE LUBAVITCH! – learn and instil CHABAD values in ourselves and in others and not only will the tznius eventually improve but our ahavas yisroel and… Read more »
Show me a sicha from the Rebbe where it says anything about
dressing like an “aidel maidel”. Maybe COL can print it, so we
can read for ourselves what the Rebbe really wants from our
girls. Did anyone ever hear of the Rebbe criticizing the way
women and girls dress in Crown Heights?
Don’t forget that just a few short weeks ago, we Jews of all factions marched together to try to rescue a kidnapped child. We were all ready to embrace each other, to learn from each other, and to support each other. I think that on these websites we should be careful not to say derogatory remarks about other Chassidim. Many of these Chassidim visit the Ohel and visited the Rebbe before gimmel Tammuz. If there is something to learn from them, we should not be too proud to admit that. There is nothing wrong with befriending them, shopping in their… Read more »
you are the coolest………
Instill good values in your children at home and they will know right from wrong on their own. The reason our generation is declining, is not because of what our teachers are wearing or the color of polish on their nails. Rather because we are raising our children to put the blame on others instead of taking responsibility for their own actions … lets all wake up…
I definitely agree that young girls of today will learn tznius only from women who are both fashionable AND tznius. It is possible to dress differently off the job than on – a teacher’s clothing needs to be both tzniusdig and professional… out of school a long denim skirt, or more casual ‘covering-the-knee skirt with a t-shirt may be tzniusdik, just not appropriate for school. I definitely don’t think school staff needs to be wearing ‘work clothes’ out of school. I wish the women and girls who walk Kingston Avenue half-undressed, and come to open school in Oholei Torah looking… Read more »
I too am from the older generation, and looking at photos in the 50’s and 60’s I can see skirts covering the knees, if only just, however they were never tight and I can remember that we were always careful that the knees were covered even when sitting down, and sleeves covered elbows, necklines covered the collar bone, never a slit in a skirt, and hair did not show even from under a tichel, and certainly we were never seen without stockings, and they weren’t sheer either. So where are you coming from. True I did not grow up in… Read more »
Well said, number 45& 49. Never has a truer word been spoken, and so well given over!! We are very far from Tzaddikim, as well we all know deep in our hearts . . . we have all their same issues AND our most difficult one of all, our Tznius issues ontop of them all . . FACT!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you should move to WIlliamsburg, or at least take a visit. You will meet young ladies who are very well dressed in aidel, (not tight fitting) clothes, they are frum, they love to do chesed, and they are great” bale bustes.” They have yiras shomayim, daven with kavanah, and know where they are coming from and where they are going. They have mesiras nefesh and kabolas ol, believe me, they are often not thrilled to have their hair shaved the day after their wedding, but they do it because according to their minhag its the right think to… Read more »
We also instilled a lot in our daughters. At 12, they all towed the line. Let’s see where your daughter is holding when she’s 20 or 22 years old, or newly married. Only then can you say whether you did a good job in instilling tznius
To comment 38. Thank you
Why do we always end up yelling at each other!!?? 34 to 35, 35 to 34 etc etc. . . . we’re all , each of us totally entitled to our feelings and opinions, and the freedom to express them out loud; there is no right or wrong in all these comments, just views and justifications on our part; Just for the record though, Williamsburg can be referred to as an example of how tznius should be; the fact that they may have other undesirable issues is a total different ball game, BUT it does NOT take away from the… Read more »
“fresh off the boat” so to speak and i remember the only problem being that some weren’t careful with theirelbows and that was mostly the older generation.regardless in those days the styles were not about looking cheap and trashy as is the case now.tight didn’t exists.
I am proper shocked at these insensitive commenter’s – it’s amazing to see people so easily criticise LOOK AT YOUR WAY OF TALKING! LOOK AT YOURSELF BEFORE YELLING AT THIS AUTHOR! Mind you, I have sisters in the high school – and one day came home and said a halacha (by, a may I say a VERY TZNIUSDIK teacher(!) but me and my father thought the halacha taught in class sounded wrong. We looked it up and LOW AND BEHOLD what she taught an entire class of about 25 high skl girls something completely WRONG! and she is what all… Read more »
you write you are not double faced like your old counselor, but sorry you are a two faced person too.you just don’t realize. .! in school you dress one way in order to get a job , and outside you dress the way you like.not so tznius like you say : tighter skirt….
What a shame.
They don’t have far greater problems beneath all that tznius. Crown Heights has those exact same problems! Are you guys naive enough to think that because the ladies in CH have stopped keeping tznius, that they have healthy marriages and that everyone is faithful to their spouses? Guess what, the same problems that happen behind the scenes in Williamsburg also happen in Crown Heights. And guess what, #35, someday the boarders of Crown Heights will have to be expanded, partly because of the housing crisis, partly because of the tznius crisis, and partly because of the shidduch crisis. If you… Read more »
Suppose you run into your rov or mashpaih in a tropical resort town wearing jeans, an “I love NY” t-shirt and a safari hat, would you admire his honesty for not being “two faced” or would you lose some (or a whole lot of) respect? I used these examples of totally tznius clothes, with no obvious breach of halacha. Yet, I sense you would be shocked, disappointed and maybe lose faith in this person role modelling for you. K”v (kal v’chomer) if the rov or mashpia would be wearing clothes that somewhat breaches our accepted level of tznius – e.g.… Read more »
In Williamsburg a girl who is not tzniyusdik is throw out of her home and the community. So you won’t see them there. That is not a deterent for our girls and will never be. Accepting everyone and focusing only on Hashem’s love for every Jew takes away from our ability to scare people into being more frum (thank G-d). Moshiach NOW!
You ARE showing your students a lie. You have two selves. One self is an apearence of a teacher in school while your other self is the bum when out of school. You are two faced, and your flowry writing and tizy grammer isn’t going to justify the lie you live. I wan’t my kids to learn from teachers who are real, not from those who put on a tznius show when they come to work. Your comparison of tznius with firefighter gear is catchy and cute but terribly misleading. When a firefighter comes home to eat supper yes he… Read more »
As a teenage girl, i could completely agree with this writer and the way she sees things. There is a difference to dressing tznius but pretty and dressing tznius but plain and completely out of shape. In my school, (which is chabad and full of girls from frum families) there’s teachers who dress one kind of tznius and then the second kind. And you know what? When a teacher walks into a classroom, wearing oversized clothing incase she dresses too tight or a top that is completely out of fashion already, unfortunately many girls tend to treat this teacher in… Read more »
well said #34,
TO
#35 and others, stop looking at williamsburg,we are not satmar,DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT GOES IN THEIR Neighborhood,far greater problems beneath all that TZNIUS!!!!!PLEASE!!!!!!AL TISTAKEIL BKANKAN!!
If you look at pictures of Fine, Upstanding,Frum Eirliche Women in Lubavitch in America from the 1940s and forward and even pictures of teens and youngsters in the 1960′-70’s(myself included) growing up America you will see the accepted way of dress was hemlines above the knees, sleeves barely touching the elbows.,even the hair styles were in fashion with the rest of the world..beehive, straight hair.etc… I see old pictures of my Mother and Mother-in-law ( both Shluchos) in such kind of dress….yet they continued to be pious women and have raised a total Frum, Yiras Shomayim generation. Yes, the standards… Read more »
How dare you? I have a suggestion for you. Pack your bags and move to Williamsburg Where they burned a picture of our nassi . Where they cut off our chosid’s beard? Please move there/ Everything you say reeks with negative misnagdish mussar and yes you should move out. Let us breath fresh positive air. And you can go buy seamed stockings and move there. Hatzlocha Rabba
we shouldn’t demand high tzneeus standards from others? that’s the problem and it doesn’t effect only the wearer.it effects those who see and take it as a haskama for themselves ie everybodies doing it and ultimately has draged down the name of lubavitsch and our rebbe.
I have had a number of daughters in HS and the issue of tznius is unfortunately dealt with in a wrong and damaging fashion. and as much as it hurts to say it the so called mechanchos and principals are to blame. Picking up students sweaters to see how buttons UNDER their sweater or picking up their skirts to see how tznius they are under their clothing???? And hipocricy reigns supreme. One principal told my daughter at a wedding that her neck is too open. {it wasn’t} A while later we saw this principal was exercise walking with a tichel/… Read more »
34, take a little ride into Williamsburg or now that the weather is good, take a walk there. You won’t find their girls walking around looking trashy and I don’t think that they were love bombed into wearing tznius clothes. Life there is far from perfect and I would imagine that not everyone is exuberantly happy but somehow they have not seen fit to shed their clothes. Their self esteem is built on making Hashem happy, not their itty bitty selves and their fragile egos. Instead of telling everyone to exhibit super tolerance to those who were not loved every… Read more »
What is wrong with these people commenting. Your standards of tzniyus may be very high but you shouldn’t demand that from others. Learn how to be sinsitive to others and speak nicely. Raise your standards of ahavas yisroel! The real problem is that schools create a mold that they then try and squeeze every kid into. People are individuals. They should be encouraged to express themselves through their own talents and witht their own taste. The laws of tznius are not here to prevent people from expressing themselves or having good taste. And bochrim do not “play soccer with a… Read more »
Unfortunately it is not only young women who dress provocatively but some older women are dressing in a trendy “notice me” way today as well. There is an astounding difference in the tznius levels of Williamsburg and Crown Heights, made more astounding by the fact that there is a mere 2 miles of difference between the 2 neighborhoods. The only thing that I would say about one commenter comparing CH to a Mizrachi neighborhood is that in Mizrachi neighborhoods, there is still a level of tznius that is adhered to by the entire community. In CH, there are those who… Read more »
do you see how strong the yetzer hara for tznius is? you recognize the problem on someone else, but when you look at yourself you excuse it! of course you are being two-faced. if you wear clothing out of school that you would not wear in school as a teacher, you are being two-faced. It doesn’t get any simpler. Sorry to break it to you, but your article is your yetzer hara speaking. do you think it isn’t your yetzer hara when you speak of someone else’s wrongdoing? that is the first part of the article. then your yetzer hara… Read more »
Every time I see a post that talks about tznius that includes a laundry list of what the author proclaims as the standards I wonder if the point gets lost. Tznius is a minds set, some of our role models my not have fit the most current “official tznius check list” yet were by nature tznius so they idn’t necessarily need to look for a hechsher on their shade of nail polish.
(ps, please no one get any big ideas from me to start putting hechsheirim on nail polish. that would be very disturbing)
My daughter is 12 y.o. I have tried to instill in her the beauty of tznius and b’a’h. she is able to conquer her yetzer hora whenever her friends or teachers dress inappropriately. After reading this well-written article, there are two messages IMO that is crucial for mothers to take note: 1) It is incumbent upon us to be aware of our daughter’s teachers way of dress. If a teacher dresses inappropriately, she must be reported to the principal of the school. Teachers are role models too our daughters, and they must adhere to rules inside as well as outside… Read more »
i think you are all missing the point! first of all, a school uniform is not meant to say that only in shcool u need to be tznius, its different than a firefighter and any other job. a jews uniform is tznius!!! it doesnt matter where he is and wat hes doing! you are totaly being two-faced to your students. they dont differentiate between where they see you. if they see you one way in shcool, and differenty out of school, they automatically know you are two faced, and wouldnt listen to you, and think its fine for them to… Read more »
Bs’d All the girls want and need is TRUTH and in order for them to believe it and know it as the truth is if they get it from someone who lives that truth 24/7. The hanholo of the school set a standard dress code for their teachers becuase they want to show the students what a chassidishe way of dress is. Kol hakavod to you for taking the achrayus to show the students that one CAN dress in a chassidishe way and still look ‘normal’ and attractive. But to me it seems that to lower your standards of dress… Read more »
“…..People can look normal”
why does professional/tznius and normal have to be a contradiction. A person can teach in very aidel but casual clothes so that they are still comfortable to be doing their after school activities and still look normal. There should not be a differentiation between appropriate tznius for the job and looking normal.
Even those people who are considered ‘role models’ by the younder generation around them, are still human beings. They can’t be perfect, and we shouldn’t expect them to be. Reading what you wrote, you never go against halacha, your kneas are always covered and wearing jeans or dark nail polish is not an aveira, I get it it’s not the most aidel thing to do but its certainly not against halacha. And from personal experience it is almost impossible to relate to someone who is constantly ‘dressed perfectly’ and the people that younger girls look up to are those who… Read more »
unbelievable inspiration to her students 🙂 youve done it again – <3
Thanks for this amazing response! So honest but yet so right really love it . Something else to add to the list of thoughts on tznius for us young adults working in a community of high school girls.
I very much love this article. Like mentioned in both articles it’s such a big and sensitive topic to be touching on. But yet still both the main article and the response gave me serious food for thought
amazing
I have to agree with one of the points that no.12. made; Why has it become such a necessity today to wear darker nail polish, and why, why , why, is it ‘okay’ to wear out of ‘school hours’??? What message could you possibly be sending to our youth and to those of us who are searching for young, tzniusdik girls for our sons today; I, for one, as many others who I know, would never entertain a suggestion of a girl who does, no matter how tzniusdik the girl may be otherwise, it usually says a lot more about… Read more »
That girl you “claim” to have misled you seems to have led you better than you’re leading those kids. At least she showed you how to act 24/7 for a period of time. That she later dropped it is a different issue; and you should be dan lekaf zechus (like the girl in the other article pointed out…). But you, on the other hand, are showing those girls that each can choose their own standards… Hmm….
Woe unto us if these are our teachers.
I admire you for respecting your job re: your “salary”…but isn’t this what Eliyahu Hanavi spoke about many years ago? “Poschim al shnei haseifim”…..
Who are we fooling not our suroundings , not G-d but as the saying goes – JUST YOURSELF.
Foolish woman – Yesh din veyesh dayan- do tshuva before it’s too late 🙁
A worried mother
practice what you preach you are sending mixed messages
Why are the “rules” for dressing in school different then dressing other times? Isn’t the shulchan aruch the same all the time? Why is there such a yetzer horah in Lubavitch to dress the opposite of aidel. Why is it that in Williamsburg today most of the young women are choosing to dress frummer then their mothers(I associate with many young women there and hear this from them all the time)? Why are we going in opposite directions? Chabad which is supposed to be the chassidic group more interested in ruchnius then in gashmius, seems to seems to be the… Read more »
i feel bad every morn u gotta switch the nailpolish………….
a nice Tznius color is fine in my opinion…….dont think dark is Tznius bichlal………
There’s a fundamental issue that seems to be overlooked whenever tznius is discussed: Yiras Shomayim. Would you justify eating ” just a little” treif since it’s only for yourself and no one else is eating it, or because no one else sees? Or be mechalel Shabbos just a little bit because no one is watching?Just a little chametz on Pesach…? We’re keeping Mitzvos because that’s how we connect to Hashem and that’s our mission down here throughout our lifetime. So it DOES matter how we dress in our bedroom, for one simple reason: Hashem is there. If you’re dressing one… Read more »
boys in yeshiva that are really true boys yes they will wear a hat and jacket when playing soccer. on the other hand how can you say look at the boys they dont wear a hat and jacket that statement it self is not tznius . and tow rongs dont make a right. dont bring boys in to the problem.the issue here is girls not boys. go home and stop riteing non sence………………………………………………..
I remember going to sleep away camp where the staff stressed wearing tights etc. How crushed I was to see the head counselor later in crown heights wearing short socks. I immediately disregarded everything she taught us. IMPORTANT: Young people are not good at nuance. Their major complaint against authority figures is that they are contradictory. Teenagers cannot stand it! They haven’t learned to accept duality in life and they see themselves as truth seekers and do not sustain phonies. That is why inconsistencies are devestating to teenagers.
I wish I would know the solution but it is true that tznius begins at home and I am almost sure that it is being taught but rather enforced in our schools. The beauty of tznius should taught with warmth and kindness and not with harshness and rules and teachers that look down their noses at students. It should be something loving for the girls so it should be something natural. Yes, unfortunately there are too many double standards and we should all try to adhere to a higher one.
I don’t usually post but couldn’t resist sharing my thoughts upon reading this bunch of…..Sorry, although it was well written, it seems that this writer feels a need to excuse her actions in spite of which she must know to be true…that we are bnos chabad and daughters of the Rebbe no matter where we are, no matter in which setting. Your analogy about the uniforms is totally skewed–sorry. The problem is that you don’t acknowledge that there is a problem…how is this upholding your promise not to be two faced when that’s exactly what you are doing!!? Why should… Read more »
As a single girl and on the shidduch scene it’s easier to maintain tznius. I’d like to see how you behave once you’re married? You claim that you will not be like the teacher you had, but you are not yet in her shoes wen she changed, and to be honest, it seems that you are going down that road. Case in point, why, pray, tell, is it necessary to wear “darker” nail polish when you are not in school???? I am not sure you are someone i would want my daughter to have as a mashpia.
Teachers are people too, and they also have the right to dress down. It Doesn’t mean they are not tznius, it means that they are not dressing professionally. Of course in school, or at school events professional protocol is respected, but on the street, in the park, in the supermarket, they can look normal. Real role models are not teachers who always dress like they are in a classroom, or are always wearing formal clothes. Real role models are people who look appropriate in each setting and dress like regular people. A girl seeing a teacher dressed tznius but regular… Read more »
You dont want to two faced, so you are true to yourself and lead these poor kids down the wrong path. Nice going.
This rationalizing is an unfortunate problem. My child’s teacher in a chabad school in a large chabad community dresses in a way I would never, and would never want my daughter to dress. And the school allows her to teach anyway!!
I know the hanholo is overburdened, but this must be made a top priority. We need dugmos tovos — and then we cry when in high school they look like their elementary school teachers?
Very well written.
i thought your article made a lot of sense, and it’s good to know there’s someone else who notices the way so many “good,” “tzniusdik,” “chassidish” girls start dressing the minute they get married. sometimes i think i’m the only one. your point about it being okay not to wear your uniform in school sounds like it makes sense, because of the way you describe your dress out of school as still being tznius and perfectly okay halachically. but there’s a very fine line between telling yourself “this is okay because i’m not in school so i’m off duty and… Read more »
my girls see it all and no respect for the school they went to
After reading your article I am happy to write that you clearly are not going against HALACHA in your dress. If you cover your knees at all times you are fine. Walking in Crown Heights today one sometimes feels that it is a Mizrachi or even less than that neighborhood. The pride and self respect that women and girls had in being a Lubavicher seems lost. Dignity and beauty of a female can only be felt when the person looks dignified not like a s—. The mini mini skirts give the impression that the person also does not keep other… Read more »
The infractions mentioned are halacha and have nothing to do with chassidish
I think the line between the to is sort of bieng blurred in this response
this article was beautifully written, and as a high school girl in a lubavitch school i greatly admire your promise to not be two faced.i have always been turned off by the counselors in camp that would put on a whole act for camp then change the second they left camp. thank you for posting this i feel its imporatnt for everyone to read this.
you fool yourself. of course you are giving these kids mixed messages with your so called honesty.
Your point was right on target. Rules of the school must be respected. Even if outside of school it is relaxed a bit. There are several mothers who have no problems whatsoever bringing their kids to school in summer in short sleeves and no stockings. And these are from frum families who should know better. What message does this send ? At least respect the school’s Daled Amos. Those in any role of authority who come in contact with our Chassidishe kids should dress appropriately. Why does a father who comes to a PTA meeting with his daughter’s teachers have… Read more »