Monday, 19 Heshvan, 5782
  |  October 25, 2021

Please Forward This To Your Future Machatunim

From the COLlive inbox: A letter sent by a Crown Heights Hatzalah volunteer to his out-of-town sister and brother-in-law regarding their son's upcoming engagement and plans to hold a simcha in the neighborhood. Full Story

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This Article Is Misguided
July 20, 2020 11:14 pm

Yes, a few months ago it was improper to make a party in the community, but TG, there have been almost no cases of Covid in the past three months and no serious cases at all. The virus seems to have subsided. It is time that we move on with our lives. Your position doesn’t really matter, it’s the facts that matter, and the facts are not on your side. If somebody feels that they are at risk, they shouldn’t go to the party, but to tell the whole community to continue to avoid having parties even though it is… Read more »

Not correct
Reply to  This Article Is Misguided
July 21, 2020 12:29 am

He’s telling out of towners not to come in for parties. Bringing in out of towners, particularly from hotspots will change the status of CH being safe. He’s right.

Reply to  This Article Is Misguided
July 21, 2020 12:29 am

I agree with this comment. Though if people are coming from hotspot states maybe check with a doctor. Otherwise at this point it seems a lchaim is ok. Maybe spread out everyone . It may not be so ideal but if people are really worried it might be a solution .

Reply to  Abba
July 21, 2020 12:32 am

And yes it seems there have Been no serious cases. So it seems it’s time to move on . But with the hotspot states a doctor should probably be consulted.

To Abba:
Reply to  Abba
July 21, 2020 11:01 am

The only people who should be asked are the CH rabbonim and the CH primary doctors. Not anyone’s personal family physician in Arizona or personal rov in Miami Beach.

Look what you wrote
Reply to  This Article Is Misguided
July 21, 2020 12:44 am

“ALMOST completely gone”.
We need to make sure it’s COMPLETELY gone! does the “l’chaim” take precedence?

Reply to  Look what you wrote
July 21, 2020 1:24 pm

Now, Covid levels are very low and the risk is at the same, or even lower than the flu. Should we also cancel all lechaims during every flu season?

Reply to  Ridiculous
July 27, 2020 12:32 pm

Right in the beginning we already “heard” that the Corona is “not worse than the flu”, and apparently we are still hearing this…

Rabbonim and doctors
Reply to  This Article Is Misguided
July 21, 2020 12:46 am

Rabbonim and local doctors have requested that people from OOT not come to CH for Simchas at this time. They’re the only opinions we should be listening to.

Reply to  This Article Is Misguided
July 21, 2020 10:52 am

Are you a doctor? Or a healthcare professional?

To Hello
Reply to  Hello
July 21, 2020 11:03 am

Read the article. He’s a healthcare professional here in CH and part of Hatzolah which is under CH rabbonim and CH doctors.

Halevai the threat should be completely gone!
Reply to  This Article Is Misguided
July 21, 2020 10:59 am

He’s not saying CH shouldn’t have parties. He’s saying that if you don’t live here, please don’t come here just to have your party. How can you possibly argue with that???

Spot on!!
July 21, 2020 12:03 am

I couldn’t agree more!

July 21, 2020 12:11 am

I am a hatzolah member and went on calls during covid, I disagree with this article.
If you are going to write a op-ed and feel so strongly about it, you need to put a name on it.

July 21, 2020 12:45 am

Why do you disagree?

call a spade a spade
July 21, 2020 4:53 am

if you mr. professional so strongly disagree then put your name to it. frankly i don’t believe for a minute that you are who you say you are and are going against everything the rabbonim and dr rosen and the gedaliah society have said

Im not the one writing op-eds
Reply to  call a spade a spade
July 21, 2020 7:58 am

My point is, dont mix hatzalah into this, and i wouldnt be suprised if our coordinators put out a disclainer.. in regards to the gedalia society much of their updates are just repeating what the ny DOH are saying (and yes, dr rosen himself told us they have no clue what they are saying).
Also where were all you holy listeners 2 months ago when dr rosen said if it were up to him he would open up shuls and schools. stop picking and choosing when it feels good for you

you are the one who picks and chooses
Reply to  Im not the one writing op-eds
July 21, 2020 10:19 am

As the medical professionals have told us…there are more questions than answers. The situation is unfolding. Yes 2 months ago CH seemed to be in the clear but NOW the situation has changed and we are in the YELLOW zone and need to proceed with extreme caution. Your information is outdated. Get with the times and stop accusing others of not listening when it is clearly YOU. How extremely arrogant you are without a care for others. No disclaimer from Hatzalah yet.

July 21, 2020 5:36 am

I too am a Hazbollah member and went on calls during Covid. I am indifferent to this letter and any responses to it.

Don't give the disease covid
July 21, 2020 9:01 am

By calling it that stupid made-up name, which was invented for the express purpose of absolving the Chinese. Using the name makes you an accomplice in that political whitewash. Call the boy by his name: the Wuhan Flu.

Here's why it's called COVID-19
Reply to  Don't give the disease covid
July 21, 2020 11:06 am

In COVID-19, ‘CO’ stands for ‘corona,’ ‘VI’ for ‘virus,’ and ‘D’ for disease. Formerly, this disease was referred to as “2019 novel coronavirus” or “2019-nCoV”. There are many types of human coronaviruses including some that commonly cause mild upper-respiratory tract illnesses. The 19 is because it was discovered in 2019.

As one hatzolah member to another:
July 21, 2020 9:39 am

Are you really saying that you’re ok with people coming from hotspots to make parties in CH? We’re not talking about something that’s mandatory – like the author says – like a bris or pidyon haben; we’re talking about an engagement party. Can you really in all honesty say it’s ok?
Anyway, that’s not the point. The point is that CH has asked that OOTers please not come for now.

You are just a guilt tripper. Simple as that
July 21, 2020 12:22 am

If you dont want to get the virus stay home and locked up. Just like with any other sickness. Closing down the whole community for a few pol that nobody even knows if they exist is not logical. If the lerson at risk was my grandparent i would urge them to stay locked down. Plain and simple. Everybody else is welcome to choose whether they want to get out and about. Its time out medical professionals start seeking logic. Why dont you just look at the streimel communities. They are months ahead of us in re opening. Where is there… Read more »

what is wrong with you
Reply to  You are just a guilt tripper. Simple as that
July 21, 2020 4:59 am

“if some older person didnt get it”…..wow. you are really too much. listen to yourself. you could care less about a third of the crown heights community who did not get corona. yes there are many beloved important elderly people pillars of our community who did not get it because of lockdown but let us not forget all the young vibrant members of our community who were deathly ill due to corona some of whom passed and others who even today are fighting their way back to health. HOW DARE YOU!!! EVERY LIFE IS IMPORTANT. EVERY PERSON IS IMPORTANT. go… Read more »

Calm down
Reply to  what is wrong with you
July 21, 2020 10:49 am

No person is responsible for someone elses life. Hashem decides who will live and who will die, NOT a basar v’dam! lashon hara is equal to avodah zora gilu arayos shvichas damim and yet lashon hara is said daily like no tomorrow. So REALLY calm down! Everyone is so ellectric about the virus but not about others thinga that is equal or even more severe then the virus!

look what happened in Israel
July 21, 2020 12:33 am

The writer is right !!
Look what happened now in Israel
Things was much better
They reopened schools , restaurants, synagogue and wasn’t so careful without a mask and more it’s came back ,
He has a good points. He wants every to be carefull
Yeshivos didn’t opened yet . No schools
Please please when every body coming Bach to the Shchuna be carefull !!

Reply to  look what happened in Israel
July 21, 2020 7:02 am

What u see and read about israel, has a half picture. Bh things r open and life moves on, and with it some ppl dont really care and thats why it became worse. But- the goverment tries not to close things bc life needs to continue moving….. Add to this- there r too much politics to the decisions, and if they will be above it without politics- things will be better and faster, bh.

Walking blind
Reply to  look what happened in Israel
July 21, 2020 7:45 am

Why dont you look at the data, there is no such thing as avoiding this virus, all israel did (and a good job at it) was push it off, so virus needs ro run its course, we need to isolate the vulnerable and let everyone elese get on with life, enough of the hype and all the comments that just puppet what people hear in the media, start using your own brain!

Thank you for your service
July 21, 2020 1:03 am

This letter is gold.

Concerned citizens
July 21, 2020 1:09 am

I strongly agree I live in florida I see how people from crown heights and all over ny come to Florida no masks thinking they may not get it read the news this is very serious people are getting the second time take precautions even for your kids people think its a joke

To collive, stop the panic pushing!
July 21, 2020 1:29 am

Enough of these panic pushing anonymous Op-Ed’s. We all know how bad it was, and we all suffered enough!! There is more data on covid in ch than anywhere else in the world, anyone who suspects anything gets themselves and their family tested. There have literally been a handful of cases in the past few months, and even most of those were traced back to elsewhere. This despite the many Simcha’s we’ve had over the last 2-3 months BH, the many people who did come for gimmel tamuz, the many visitors we did have, people in shuls, classes, stores, day… Read more »

you suffered??
Reply to  To collive, stop the panic pushing!
July 21, 2020 5:03 am

Had you suffered, really suffered, you would not have written such a selfish and self serving comment. You did not suffer. You lived the good life while the rest of the community cried day after day, week after week with the loss of loved ones and devastating illness. The pain of your neighbors did not touch you at all. You are smarter than the rabbonim. You are smarter than the medical professionals. You don’t care what anyone thinks. You are the ultimate mayven. That is so wrong.

You sound like the same angry fell9w that responde
Reply to  you suffered??
July 21, 2020 9:04 am

To the previous post. Maybe he did suffer thr loss of loved one? I did. And I still think we need to live our lives like rational people and not ve in lockdown forever. We did not do this for any other pandemics we have lived theough that had a greater death rate than this one. Its not insensitive to say that the whole world shouldnt lock down for a few vulnerable individual’s, its the harsh reality. That is how society has lived for 5780 years. There is always the flu/colds/viruses circulating. We don’t shut down society. Israel never peaked… Read more »

An out of State
July 21, 2020 1:32 am

Have you ever been outside Crown Heights Brooklyn to another state during Covid? This is why you’re writing this article. I come to Crown Heights (for business) & Simchas…..& sorry to break it to you but (I can not say everyone) but almost no ones wearing masks during this time. So what would you expect. & hey anyone gonna listen? Unfortunately we are in a position when we will learn the hard way & if god forbid someone C”V gets the Covid during a Simcha time then what?? In other states this is not allowed. .. wherever you go Store… Read more »

We forget so quickly
Reply to  An out of State
July 21, 2020 9:10 am

For the first month that the virus swept thru crown heights and took many lives, the authorities said “do not wear masks. They are useless ” after Pesach, when everything slowed down and most people had had it, suddenly yidden were getting fined on the streets of boro park for not wearing masks. Yidden who had the virus and had antibodies. Yidden are criticized for attending levayas. Short weeks later, BLM riots, no masks, no social distancing, no new cases, no criticism. Its hard not to see thru the sheer bogus of it all. Its one big political stint. You… Read more »

@crown heights store owners
Reply to  An out of State
July 21, 2020 9:18 am

Please bring back the mandatory masks before entering your store

life needs to get back to normal
July 21, 2020 1:37 am

if your coming from covid hotspot think, is it better to make a big lechaim now or no,and there tell him not to come. do not make a general statemant for everyone. because we do not know long covid will last. please do not say not to make lechaim all together big lechaim and even more chassunos. most people already started working in offices,going out,we have to get back to normal. we should not ruin the lechaim’s,chassunos, the thing that is once in a life time and we can not redo. you do not have to come,most people coming is… Read more »

the effect of covid
July 21, 2020 1:56 am

a person needs something to look forward to is it his job or a chassunah or camp or even a vacation if it lacks they lose their minds kids went crazy when they had to stay home.(if you did not have problems with your kids amazing not everyone is the same) adults depression, loss of job or both. and the goyim found a way to calm themselves from the lock-down: they riot. yes they say it is because of George Floyd death, that might be half true,but why are they so intense, it’s because of the lock-down, the lock-down made… Read more »

Keep elderly and at risk people home
July 21, 2020 3:25 am

Everyone else should live their life normally, the mortality rate for people under 70 is less than 0.5%, that’s basically equal to the flu

July 21, 2020 3:29 am

I genuinely cannot believe this needs to be said but hosting simchas in Crown Heights is not the problem here. If you’re really worried about the spread of COVID-19, then make sure everyone in CH (visitors included) wears a mask out in public and maintains social distancing. Rather than focusing your energy on a few out-of-towner families, make sure every Crown Heightser is doing their part to stop the spread of the virus. From the photos I have seen on COL, of people walking along Kingston Ave Friday afternoon and davening in 770, it does not appear that anyone is… Read more »

Why are you withholding your name?
July 21, 2020 5:08 am

Nothing you are saying is incorrect or shameful. Stand by what you say proudly and put your name to your article If you truly believe what you are saying

He has a point BUT...
July 21, 2020 7:36 am

He has a point, we shouldn’t actively go out of our way to bring back the virus but and here is a big BUT, if Six flags, water parks & beaches are open in NYC and protestors in groups of thousands are ok, a lechaim which is far less condensed in terms of people really shouldn’t bring such an inflow of the virus. Yes we have to be careful, mask wearing, hand washing and all the other precautions but enough is enough!!! Yes we unfortunately lost many great people and it’s tragic but we cannot stop living and moving on… Read more »

July 21, 2020 8:15 am

Crown Heights thinks they have herd immunity and only they should be walking the streets even so just about none of them wear masks outside or in 770

Reply to  Herd
July 21, 2020 12:46 pm

Outside does not need a mask unless your in a crowd

July 21, 2020 8:18 am

If people (especially elderly) who are afraid and want to be extra careful should not go to Lchaims etc. No one is forcing them to go. This does not mean that we should stop making Lchaims. The Rav of Crown Heights (who is actually very careful not to mingle with others), allowed his son to make a Lchaim with no issue at all. He himself sat on the head table (with a mask and somewhat distanced) . He did not instruct his son, the Baal Simcha, not to make a Lchaim. On the contrary. Shuls are open. Stores are open… Read more »

Why all of "out of town"
July 21, 2020 8:35 am

Dear Hatzolah member, 1) Please sign your name. Many members of hatzolah disagree with your opinion and firmly believe and express that things that can and must continue to return to normal as much as possible for the sake of everyone’s mental health and well-being. Most people can not and will not continue to live as you suggest – especially since the levayos you refer to were 13,14 and 15 weeks ago and things have clearly improved. Lack of acknowledging any improvement in our situation makes your point lost on a lot people. 2) the whole idea of bundling all… Read more »

Interesting article, strong opinion
July 21, 2020 8:41 am

This is the kind of thing that needs a name to it, can’t be written anonymously. Nobody knows what is actually right and proper to do. The schools and camps are in session so people are gathering either way. Bli ayin Hara there have been many engagements and many visitors from out of town and Baruch HaShem no serious corona cases as a result. If the writer feels strongly about this viewpoint, and you may have a very good point, and if you really want to use what you know from your experience to make a difference, you’ll need to… Read more »

Reply to  Interesting article, strong opinion
July 21, 2020 10:57 am

What difference would a name make?

Is this way considered living?
July 21, 2020 9:00 am

Unless one is living under a rock, it is well known that the debate about reopening and resuming normal life has nothing to do with health or safety and everything to do with politics.

The sad thing is, it’s the politicians who know this but the innocent people listening and watching that are have now adapted fear as a way of life.

Fear, fear and more fear. Trust me friends, this is no life either.

live and let live
July 21, 2020 9:08 am

No one is forcing anyone to do anything.

Dear friends, we have been through too much together. We cannot have survived this only to now get into a civil war about how and when to move on.

Let us live and let each other live.

July 21, 2020 9:32 am

Wow, hatzolah and Chevra kadisha – – –
Thank you for your service to our community.

And you also write very well.

Hatzlocho in everything!

Incomplete argument
July 21, 2020 9:37 am

Dear sir. First of all, thank you very very much for all the work at the front lines of Covid. The community owes you and all your colleagues a huge debt of gratitude!!! I can’t even begin to fathom the stress and exhaustion you guys faced. Thank you!!! As it relates to this oped, you built your case based on the reality of March and April. You haven’t connected the dots to the current reality. Clearly the reality has changed. In March & April we were all under severe lock down yet the cases kept piling up. Today we have… Read more »

Reply to  Incomplete argument
July 21, 2020 10:58 am

The current reality is that people are getting reinfected.

How many people
Reply to  Hello
July 21, 2020 11:36 am

Very few compared to how much mingling is going on

Incomplete argument
Reply to  Hello
July 21, 2020 11:41 am

So he should make that case. His initial argument doesn’t make any such reference.

Even with rising cases, is it at a higher rate than the common flu? We don’t shut down for that.

The point is, if he’s going to make an argument about how we should behave today, then he needs to present the current reality/threat.

Reply to  Incomplete argument
July 21, 2020 3:59 pm

It’s understood by most people that he’s referring to the present conditions

We need to be smarter
July 21, 2020 9:41 am

My comment applies to the behavior in shuls. It is reckless and shameful that shuls are not requiring masks. 770, which can set the example for all shuls, is FULL on Shabbos, from the front of the shul until the back, and maybe you will see 3 masks. Listen!Even if you had it, they think the antibodies might only last a few months. People come from other places, you only need 1 person to spread it. Just 1. The air conditioning system doesn’t have special filters, the air is blown throughout the shul and the virus spreads in the air.… Read more »

Is this real?
July 21, 2020 10:30 am

Is this real?

For weeks and months we suffered, suffered and suffered some more.

Look at the beautiful smiling faces of Lubavitcher chasidim resuming normal life, siyum HoRambams, davening learning and yes, simchos. Celebrating the future of the Jewish nation by rejoicing happily with family and friends.

Of course, people who are vulnerable should unfortunately not participate as of now and of course no one should come from a hot spot.

But to just shut down life until…..?

Excellent point
Reply to  Is this real?
July 23, 2020 12:51 am

You hit the nail on the head. Am yisroel chai

July 21, 2020 10:34 am

Just saying. why is it so important that he puts his name? (Yes if he believes it so strongly he shouldn’t be ashamed) but the point of this article is the CONTENT, not the name of the person writting it!!! Yes it sounds more juicy to know his name because then you can go say lots of lashon hara but you are all missing the whole point. U don’t need his name, he spoke a bit about the fact that he is hatzalah member and that is enough. Maybe he was hiding his name because he knew how much opposition… Read more »

A name would help
Reply to  Comment
July 21, 2020 11:34 am

When someone makes such a strong statement, we need to know their name so we can be sure that they really hold the credentials that they say they do and it’s not just someone who feels strongly about something and has a great pen.

Don't worry about the elderly
July 21, 2020 10:38 am

I have had several elderly relatives secretly share with me that they are enjoying this vacation from going out for lchaims, weddings, etc

I’m sure it’s not everyone, but I know lots of our ziknei anash don’t mind missing these things.

So, let us show Hashem our gratitude by responsibly moving forward with our lives and not just shutting down

Refraining from making parties
Reply to  Don't worry about the elderly
July 21, 2020 4:54 pm

is not ‘shutting down’.
Moving on with our lives doesn’t mean we have to make unnecessary parties!
And even though some elderly are secretly relieved to not need to go out, how respectful is it to say you’re making a party and you really don’t care of your bubby and zaidy can’t come?? Basically you’re saying to them that your party’s a necessary event, and if they’re too scared to take the risk of coming to your party, well that’s ok with you, you’re perfectly happy to party without them…??

קשוט עצמך תחילה!
July 21, 2020 10:47 am

CH Must start wearing masks!
Why COLLIVE never do a campaign about that?

Let's get on with our lives!
July 21, 2020 10:52 am

What kind of person can say: I need to get on with my life – meaning that I need to have a party with my friends – and if the elders in the community, including my own elderly parents, and elderly aunts and uncles, want to risk their health – fine. And if they don’t want to risk their health, well, the party can very well go on without you. Because I NEED to ‘get on with my life.’ That’s the very thoughtful and considerate and truly chassidishe thinking, yes? No one’s saying don’t get on with yoru life. We… Read more »

out of town
July 21, 2020 11:00 am

The same could be said for making a wedding out of town USA. Maybe just the parents should come. We are in a Hot Spot city where the covid cases are rising and hospitals are starting to get full. Our governor and Mayor pretty much shut down everything…including places of Worship and cultural ceremonies. We are wearing our masks and our Chabad community is working very hard to lay low, no vacation and stay home in the hopes that if School will reopen here at the end of August, we want our children to test negative so that they can… Read more »

communities wishes
July 21, 2020 12:19 pm

Oped is asking to honor the communities wishes. But if this oped were the communities wishes, the badatz or hatzolah would sign a similiar letter (not something vague). As it is, even the oped author doesnt sign his name, surely if these were the communities wishes he would sign his name.

Gedaliah Society Update
Reply to  communities wishes
July 21, 2020 4:50 pm

In its recent updates The Gedaliah Society says clearly – among other things: Travel LESS and only when ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY; if you’re coming from a hotspot, you MUST quaranteen for fourteen days, even if you ‘re testing negative.
The Gedaliah Society puts out its updates in conjunction with the rabbonim of CH

Child's simcha
Reply to  Gedaliah Society Update
July 23, 2020 1:08 am

To be present at your your Child’s simcha, who lives in crown heights , is pretty necessary

July 21, 2020 12:50 pm

Seems, seems… and if only it seems, but i’s LURKING, and someone from anothyer state comes and brings it with, unwittingly… This virus is not yet completely understood. If you feel for your the community of CH – just be mature and be cautious and safe – the CH community suffered. Some may not have felt it as much as others. Some people are still needig a refuah shlaima (now). The masks should be worn in public gatherings or stores. In other countries ufortunately the virus has reinstated. We have to continue being vigilnant – we’re all conneceted and each… Read more »

July 21, 2020 1:10 pm

Israel has gone back in cases. California the same.
We must continue vigilance…

July 21, 2020 1:29 pm

I don’t totally disagree with the premise of people not traveling TO or FROM places that can spread the virus BUT, yes, schools are open, people need to be able to get out for their mental health (not move on,I personally have experienced numerous losses,lo aleiynu,that will stay with me forever) Hashem wants us to continue to live within halacha. If stores and shuls would encourage masks, have sanitizer easily available, and social distance, then we would be within our rights to ask visitors to test before coming, and follow the same guidelines while here. Let’s not argue, we need… Read more »

From all the comments:
July 21, 2020 5:00 pm

It’s very simple: either you are a person who is considerate and thoughtful of others, or you’re not.
If you’re not, either it’s in the best case out of ignorance, and the worst case out of plain and simple selfishness.
All the pontificating doesn’t change this truth.

July 21, 2020 10:19 pm

I recently came to CH after having a negative test and not coming from a hotspot.
I was wearing a mask inside every store I entered, but locals mostly were not, even though the stores had signs saying entry is only with masks???????

Thank you
Reply to  OOTer
July 26, 2020 6:59 pm

For respecting the community, even as its very members do not!
It’s really hard to excuse or even explain why my own community members are so dismissive of the legal, ethical and simple basic decency requirements.

To: Don't Worry About the Elderly
July 21, 2020 10:46 pm

This sums it up! Don’t worry. They’ll be fine. They’re doing great. Have your bash, they don’t want to come anyway. Just…don’t worry about them. Yup, it seems that’s exactly the attitude in the streets of CH, the party-ers, the visitors…just don’t worry about the elderly. Really, truly, in the spirit of ahavas Yisroel – not to speak of basic human mentchlichkeit. Don’t worry about the elderly. Look, anyway they had their time for fun; now it’s our time to ‘get on with life’…so don’t worry about them. Don’t worry about the elderly – they’d much rather sit home alone… Read more »

Ridiculousness....Plenty of Dr's, Hatzalah Members
July 30, 2020 2:58 pm

Ridiculousness….Plenty of Dr’s who have dealt with “COVID-19” and were in the emergency rooms etc as well as many Hatzalah Members disagree with the premise of this article/oped etc. Most of them will not speak out in public for fear of “retribution” from the “Left MINDED” individuals who are spoon-fed continuous falsehood statistics regarding “Covid-19” and will lash out verbally and many times physically for those who do not agree with their view of the “Facts”…..this is all sort of like the silent majority for Trump….

July 30, 2020 3:02 pm

The final data on flu season 2020 has been reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), even as COVID-19 continues to spread throughout major regions of the United States.

Between October 1, 2019 and April 4, 2020, according to the CDC, the flu has resulted in:

39 million to 56 million illnesses
410,000 to 740,000 hospitalizations
24,000 to 62,000 total deaths
169 pediatric deaths