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Saturday, 17 Iyyar, 5784
  |  May 25, 2024

New “Kashrus Lubavitch” Will Certify AgriStar and Shor Habar Meats

3 Chabad rabbis heading a new kosher certification announced that they will be supervising the AgriStar meat plant and its Shor Habar brand, after CHK removed its ’Lubavitch shechita’ hechsher. Full Story

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Chaim
March 7, 2024 8:41 am

Great, this is exactly what we need, more machlokes.
Well done

Agree
Reply to  Chaim
March 7, 2024 9:43 am

This won’t end well

Pathetic
Reply to  Chaim
March 7, 2024 9:58 am

Everybody knows for many years there had been big issues with shor habor! To come along and give a new hechsher on it is embarrassing.

Not Chabad
Reply to  Pathetic
March 7, 2024 5:12 pm

Can I ask what issues there are reputable certifiers that make sure it is kosher. I never heard that there is an issue of having non chabad shochtem?

MAGA: Make Agri Great Again
Reply to  Chaim
March 7, 2024 1:17 pm

Kosher schita first then you can focus on kosher schitas being Lubavitch, heard of many claimed “lubavitchers schitas” where young shochtim or mashgichim didn’t have proper training and supervision but had the ” Lubavitch schitas label approval.
Let’s focus on halacha first.

Great news
March 7, 2024 8:57 am

Finally a Hechsher that can be trusted.

Shame
Reply to  Great news
March 7, 2024 9:52 am

I suggest more respectful talk about the Rabbonim of Crown Heights. It will help your children remain frum.
(Children who grow up in homes without respect for Rabbonim often lose respect for everything in yiddishkeit).
It’s ok to disagree, but how it’s done is crucial.

Perhaps
Reply to  Shame
March 7, 2024 7:40 pm

It’s on the rabonim to behave in a way that commands respect

Trusted. New Hechsher
Reply to  Great news
March 7, 2024 9:57 am

You dont kniw them
They have NO experience.
Just more Machlokes in our midst.

Quite a lot of experience
Reply to  Trusted. New Hechsher
March 7, 2024 4:46 pm

Rabbi Deren has been a shochet for 2+ decades. I would say that’s quite a bit of experience. Still, the circumstances raise a lot of questions.

מי ברא אלה
March 7, 2024 9:13 am

Shiduch Resume
March 7, 2024 9:17 am

Another item for your Shiduch Resume: CHK, or Lamed K?

Hysterical
Reply to  Shiduch Resume
March 7, 2024 11:23 am

Haha

Go Vegetarian 👍🏻
Reply to  Shiduch Resume
March 7, 2024 5:59 pm

Good salads, Challa, and lots of vegetarian protein.

Yeah...
Reply to  Go Vegetarian 👍🏻
March 8, 2024 4:25 pm

That’s not gonna go well on the resume either

Bob
March 7, 2024 9:29 am

This is amazing news! Now there is finally more competition with lubavitch hechshers

Public service announcment
March 7, 2024 9:31 am

For anyone who is interested in eating high quality lubavitch meat lchaim meats has 100% grass fed bison that has the chk kosher certification that customers can order online! I highly recommend it

link
Reply to  Public service announcment
March 7, 2024 10:48 am

what’s the website

Grass fed?
Reply to  Public service announcment
March 7, 2024 12:08 pm

Grass makes it more tough 😂

huh
March 7, 2024 9:31 am

So all of a sudden Agri changed their minds and *are* willing to fully follow lubavitch shechita standards?

Think a minute
Reply to  huh
March 7, 2024 4:50 pm

Read between the lines: if agri doesn’t mind having lubavithch shechita, who do you think really made the problems?

Not Chabad
Reply to  huh
March 7, 2024 5:16 pm

what are “lubavitch shechita standards” as someone who has smeicha I am not sure what the differences between chasidish shecheita and lubavitch shechita are?

I know that some non chabad people make sure not to have meshachist shochtem but I never knew there was an issue the other way.

Chaim Jankel
Reply to  Not Chabad
March 10, 2024 10:17 am

“Chassidisch Schechitoh” means the Schauchet belongs to a Chassidus and has a Rebbe. “Lubavitch Schechitoh” means that the Schauchet is a Lubavitcher and learns Chabad Chassidus before work.

Meanwhile, Lubavitch once trusted Jekkisch Schauchtim, despite us not learning a lick of Chassidus

Menachem
March 7, 2024 9:33 am

Its all about money.
Arons and shor habor are same
Just different stickers

Correct
Reply to  Menachem
March 7, 2024 11:30 am

Yes this is well known for years, but the kashrus of both has been sub-par for years too. Good for CHK for finally doing something about it.

Ehh
Reply to  Menachem
March 7, 2024 1:16 pm

Nisht punkt, the shochtim are different (partially)

stickers
Reply to  Menachem
March 7, 2024 9:45 pm

That’s true. It’s all the same just different stickers. Soon they will even have swa-stickers! 🙂

Really?!
March 7, 2024 9:36 am

How is this a solution?
More division is not what we need

inoccent questions
March 7, 2024 9:44 am

How do these rabbis announce they’re giving a hechsher without first checking out the plant? Maybe it’s not so glatt… Shouldn’t they first enquire why the other hechsher was removed as is normal? They write they will be setting up a office and provide a phone number etc. That means they don’t have yet any infrastructure, even not a basic phone number, just a logo (just created for this) and a new list of rabbis. How can they be so sure everything will be ok and will work out? They also write that the shechita will be by lubavitcher shochtim.… Read more »

As someone who lived in the Postville community
Reply to  inoccent questions
March 7, 2024 2:20 pm

I totally agree with your assessment of how it practically works on the ground

may postville be blessed infinitely forever
March 7, 2024 9:53 am

may postville be blessed infinitely forever

Tzem tzem
Reply to  may postville be blessed infinitely forever
March 7, 2024 10:28 am

Awosme

Wondering
March 7, 2024 9:53 am

How the standard suddenly improved over night?

Double standards
March 7, 2024 9:54 am

If this hechsher came out with a letter bashing Chk they would be laughed at like who the heck are they
Because they are giving a hechsher all of a sudden ppl are all ears

how can it be
March 7, 2024 9:55 am

That this factory which was not successful delivering the Kashrus to our Rabonim will be successful if delivering it with others?

Is there anything they have given up on in terms of the hight quality of Kashrus we would like to have?

Is there a possibility of having Kashrus transparency and get to peek into the old and new agreement and contracts?

Talk to the People Behind the Scenes
Reply to  how can it be
March 7, 2024 11:32 am

Agri isnt doing a thing to change its substandard Kashrus. These guys just don’t care

Kashrus transparency???
Reply to  how can it be
March 10, 2024 3:00 am

You’re joking, right? Never happened, never will happen, not when money and kovod are at the root of the problem. Here’s my take: we, as consumers, have to trust our hechscherim. if you don’t trust Kashrus A, you don’t eat anything under that umbrella. I live in Israel, you can’t imagine the terror tactics, mafia and corruption that exist here in the Kashrus industry. I travel to different cities to buy Chabad hashgacha, for which I pay a very high price in terms of cost per chicken, lousy meat, and my time and transportation costs. Be grateful the CH Beis… Read more »

Lamed k
March 7, 2024 10:07 am

I think their logo stands for lokshin Kugel

NO NO NO
March 7, 2024 10:08 am

on chof zayin adar this story breaks! hashem yerachem!

Avremi Gourarie
March 7, 2024 10:08 am

Absolutely hilarious. Most people don’t care. The majority of crown heights residents are fine with OK or OU. More than once a restaurant in Crown Heights lost CHK hechsher only to be replaced by OU or OK. No one noticed or cared. And some establishments didn’t even bother with the CH route to begin with.

Wait
Reply to  Avremi Gourarie
March 7, 2024 12:22 pm

Ok is not lubavitch shechitah? Or it is unless they said it is

MAGA: Make Agri Great Again
Reply to  Wait
March 7, 2024 1:16 pm

Kosher schita first then you can focus on kosher schitas being Lubavitch, heard of many claimed “lubavitchers schitas” where young shochtim or mashgichim didn’t have proper training and supervision but had the ” Lubavitch schitas label approval.
Let’s focus on halacha first.

Bit different
Reply to  Avremi Gourarie
March 7, 2024 5:31 pm

I think there’s a big difference between restaurants that many anash don’t go to since they only eat at home vs not having any meat with chk schita

Don’t mix your personal disagreements in
Reply to  Avremi Gourarie
March 7, 2024 9:06 pm

Keep your politics to yourself…

Lost
Reply to  Avremi Gourarie
March 8, 2024 2:33 am

Crown Heights is no more Lubavitch. They’re whatever else but NOT Lubavitch. Those majority you’re speaking about.

Rabbi Segel
March 7, 2024 10:10 am

It smells from top to bottom. I am no CHK fan but to open a new Hescher behind the backs of the long time CHK which gave a Hescher for years without calling the CHK and asking why they dropped the Hescher is wrong and against a Psak from Reb Moshe ZAL. The opened this BAIS DIN with one intetion to make money for themselves. They have no office – No address and no admin. Its a joke.

concerned parent
Reply to  Rabbi Segel
March 7, 2024 11:36 am

How do you know the CHK wasn’t contacted? How do you know it was done behind their backs?

Buddy
Reply to  Rabbi Segel
March 7, 2024 2:19 pm

Rabbi Segal worked in Agri.

You need to do more research

What about
March 7, 2024 10:10 am

What about the inspection difficulty issues, deveining concerns, etc. as pointed out in the letter from the Beis Din?

Havent Been Resolved
Reply to  What about
March 7, 2024 11:33 am

This is embarrassing for them.

More politics
March 7, 2024 10:14 am

just what we need

Good news
March 7, 2024 10:15 am

Rabbi Deren is a yiras shamaim that has extremely high kashrus standards which he makes sure gets implemented. We only eat meat that is supervised by Rabbi Deren.

Moshiach Times...
Reply to  Good news
March 7, 2024 10:57 am

And so is Rabbi Oberlander..

Question
March 7, 2024 10:20 am

Will Schitah be only Lubavitch Shochtim?
Or the way it was till till now?

Menachem
Reply to  Question
March 7, 2024 10:43 am

Probably going to stay same…..

Purim Article!
March 7, 2024 10:22 am

Very silly 😜 🤪 🤣 🙃!!

Beis din letter?
March 7, 2024 10:25 am

This post is missing the juiciest part, where is the letter from the beis din stating the reason for thier termination!?
Please need to know what thier eating!

Yes
Reply to  Beis din letter?
March 7, 2024 11:20 am

Till I see this i will continue to buy shor habor

Look again
Reply to  Beis din letter?
March 7, 2024 11:56 am

The link is in the article

Becoming vegan 😀
March 7, 2024 10:27 am

Becoming vegan would solve all this problems

Which Rabbi Deren is this?
March 7, 2024 10:32 am

From where?

Someone
Reply to  Which Rabbi Deren is this?
March 7, 2024 6:46 pm

Pittsburgh

Title*
March 7, 2024 10:40 am

Rabbi Segal visited and inspected the Agri plant countless times over many years. Rabbi Lieberman and Rabbi Overlander also visited the plant and inspected its operations before putting their name to this letter.

Unbelievable
March 7, 2024 10:40 am

For all the comments writing “all of a sudden….” since when didn’t all lubavitch problems begin with “all of a sudden”…

It stinks
March 7, 2024 10:41 am

It’s rather suspicious to simply create a new hashgacha rather than addressing the issues raised by the chk. Those does not look good nor Bose well for our community

i am stopping buying shor habor
March 7, 2024 10:45 am

as someone who knows exact issues that CHK had, you should not buy shor habor until they fix all issues and go back to CHK

FYI
March 7, 2024 10:52 am

Deal was kicked off in the first place bc he refused to implement what the chk demanded so now he can make it kosher? He’s buddy buddy with the owners. I have to say I’m shocked at rabbi oberlander

EXACTLY
Reply to  FYI
March 7, 2024 1:02 pm

Yes

ORB????
March 7, 2024 10:57 am

One of the Rabbis on this NEW Kashrut Org. heads the ORB in Florida. For that reason alone, I would say forget ANY serious standards of Kashrus.

Is anyone explaining what specifically is being implemented to offer confidence to the concerned Chabad Kashrus practitioner?

Rabbi Y Deren
March 7, 2024 11:03 am

Regardless of everything else going on,
if Rabbi Y. Deren is overseeing the beef, this is the highest level and quality possible. Rabbi Deren’s private shechita has been known as the longest standing highest standard of Lubavitch Shechita, before any larger organizations or agencies. If he is overseeing the shechita, we are in trustworthy hands.

Agreed
Reply to  Rabbi Y Deren
March 8, 2024 2:54 am

I agree 100%

Tzali
March 7, 2024 11:31 am

The only ones that will pay for this is us now there will be a shortage and prices are going to go up just like they did by corona and they don’t come back down

Froggy mcboomboom
March 7, 2024 11:37 am

Can the chk please publish a list of every food product and restaurant that has their certification?

chabad has outgrown chk
March 7, 2024 11:54 am

The reality is that the Chabad community has grown in leaps and bounds ka”h and there is no need to be chained to the CHK hechsher. More competition will lead to better standards and better prices.

Very Honorable!
March 7, 2024 11:54 am

It’s impressive how these Rabbonim didn’t start their business by taking away someone else’s Hashgocha. This shows sensitivity and respect on their part. They are obviously doing this to fill the need of those who hold by certain standards and find it hard to do. It’s hard to read all these negative comments about them, why not give them a chance? We should be celebrating their commitment and encouraging it. I wish them much Hatzlacha in their endeavor on behalf of the community.

A question we should ask
March 7, 2024 11:57 am

All types of rabbonim that give a hechsher have frequented postville . I am very curious when the last time a crown heights rov from CHK was in postville . I have been here ten years and haven’t ever seen them . That does smell

Incorect
Reply to  A question we should ask
March 7, 2024 2:02 pm

6 months ago

unrelated
March 7, 2024 12:02 pm

I want to buy cholov Yisroel kosher organic milk and don’t know of anywhere that ships. Does anyone know of any?

Milk
Reply to  unrelated
March 7, 2024 1:34 pm

Beth-kel. Monticello

Organic Cholov Yisroel
Reply to  unrelated
March 7, 2024 10:36 pm

I’ve see Bethel milk and yogurts in Crown Heights groceries.

Uncle Johny
March 7, 2024 12:15 pm

What new meat companies are the chk going to certify?

Just a thought
March 7, 2024 1:17 pm

Perhaps this has been in the making for a while and agri dropped CHK for the new hechsher and not the reverse.
It is hardly likely that this new vaad was put together overnight.

THE REBBE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SHECHITA
March 7, 2024 1:17 pm

During the yechidus, the Rebbe said to Rabbi Yitzchok Hendel that he needed to begin to institute a Lubavitcher shechita in Montreal. R’ Hendel asked: What does that mean? The Rebbe said: Lubavitcher shechita is shechita that the Rebbe, my father-in-law, would eat. R’ Hendel understood that the Rebbe was at that very moment introducing a new standard of conduct for Chassidim and so he said that he still did not understand precisely what this meant. The Rebbe clarified: When people say that meat is Lubavitcher shechita, it means that the Lubavitcher Rebbe is responsible for the shechita and the… Read more »

I personally don't think much of this new hechser
March 7, 2024 2:07 pm

If the hashgacha was taken off there was a reason, pashut it didn’t meat high standards that is expected from schita lubavitch, besides it wasn’t 100 percent shchita lubavitch, so I don’t believe for a second that this new hashgacha will be serious, it’s a joke if you ask me , let’s keep to the hashgacha of the badatz of crown heights the rebbe’s rabbonim

AFQ
March 7, 2024 2:21 pm

Most of the certifications are politically or monetarily driven. It’s not really about if it’s really kosher or not. That is how and why bother certification groups pop up. I can tell you stories going back to the plain K in the mid 1970’s. There’s the OU, the COR, & others.

stam
March 7, 2024 4:26 pm

just want to comment that the logo signifies round broken luchos

New chk
March 7, 2024 4:34 pm

That’s my question.
Which companies will the Crown Heights beis din certify?

Mara d'atra NOT
March 7, 2024 5:10 pm

R’Oberlander is not considered the Mara D’Atra of Kingston by many here, date I say most. He was never properly nominated or voted upon. While he’s nice and personable, he is not accepted. The tile was given to him by an influential person and not much else. While he may be qualified he is not accepted. Some people are offended that he uses the title.

Oberlander
March 7, 2024 5:34 pm

Not Mara d’Atra of Kingston Pa. He’s the rav in one shul. There was no community discussion or agreement on appointing him. Now he brings machlokes.

This is a disgrace...
March 7, 2024 7:27 pm

They should NOT put a Lubavitcher hechsher on this chicken and meat if they didn’t follow CHK standards. It’s not ok to lower Chabad Standards and use Lubavitch’s name.

Please be smart
March 7, 2024 7:43 pm

Now we will have two standards in Lubavitch and people won’t be able to eat in other people’s houses or restaurants.
It will be nice and create shalom if this hashgacha will be removed.

Nothing new
Reply to  Please be smart
March 8, 2024 4:40 pm

For years CHK didn’t have split back chicken, which is why you can get frozen chicken from Montreal in most CH stores

Hebrew National
March 7, 2024 8:33 pm

Hebrew National answers to a higher authority

Published Standards?
March 7, 2024 9:48 pm

The OK, OU, Star-K, cRc and AKO all publish their standards on their websites. What are the standards of CHK? What will the standards of this new hechsher be? This could be a good thing IF consumers can make INFORMED choices about the kashrus of their homes.

Don't understand
March 7, 2024 11:40 pm

If CHK says somethings are wrong with shor habor meats, wouldn’t people have to kasher their kitchens?

No one said it was treif
Reply to  Don't understand
March 8, 2024 2:04 am

If you read the badatz letter you will notice the reason they are taking off the hashgacha is because they want to put in a higher standard in the place that was refused, so no it’s not treif just it’s not on a high standard as should be accepted by a lubavitch hashgacha, basically till today the badatz acceped it the way it was going and where hoping overtime to upgrade the system of kasherus to be higher standards it didn’t work because the shlucht house either refused or ignored or maybe simply wasn’t able to implement the changes, so… Read more »

No
Reply to  Don't understand
March 8, 2024 12:36 pm

They clearly said that any meat you have right now bearing a CHK is fine. And regardless, CHK said that the issue had subverting to do with “Lubavitch Shchita” something which isn’t a reason to Kasher.

The CHK Beis Din and procedure
March 10, 2024 9:00 pm

As an outsider, reading and hearing that politics is the main reason why this Beis Din has had only two main signatories and not three for too many years does not lend itself to confidence in the institution. Since Rabbi Braun, there should have been at least one plus another two added, a long time ago. Putting that aside for now … I don’t have any issue with Lubavitchers preferring to eat only from Lubavitch Shechitah and Nikkur any more than I do Satmar feeling likewise. However, if there are some areas of kashrus concern, the CHK should publish these… Read more »

Not ONE UNITED lubavitch authority =
March 10, 2024 9:59 pm

Since lubavitch at this point is not one agreed body, and any and all can claim lubavitch – so, if chk is too strict, let’s find some lubavitchers to make a lubavitch hasgocha. If Mohammad won’t come to the mountain, the mountain will come To Mohammad.
Time to bring back UNITED LUBAVITCH AUTHORITY that is sole entity responsible from shlichus to hasgocha, and from the darkness of tunnels to the light of geula.

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