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Wednesday, 23 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 26, 2019

    More Shocking Than Leggings

    An open letter to Rabbi Motty Gurary, Director of Bnos Menachem girls school in Crown Heights, over his new tznius rules. Full Story

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    Anonymous
    Guest
    Anonymous

    Completely agree!!!
    Thank you for being the one to finally stand against these ridiculous requests when there are way more severe problems going on

    How can a man talk to a woman about Tznius
    Guest
    How can a man talk to a woman about Tznius

    Please see:

    A. The Lubavitcher Rebbe

    and

    B. Every sefer containing halachos ever

    The truth hurts
    Guest
    The truth hurts

    I think he is trying to set a standard with an all too painful situation. I’m sure he knows it may not be all that popular but is willing to put himself aside and take that risk.

    Thank you.
    Guest
    Thank you.

    Every. Word. Truth. Thank you for speaking out.

    Its not about the little girls, its the MOTHERS!!
    Guest
    Its not about the little girls, its the MOTHERS!!

    Let’s face it, the tzinus in Crown Heights has reached in all-time low. The basic simple halachos of covering elbows, knees and collarbone have long gone by the wayside for many, many women. It is extremely painful to walk down Kingston and see what is happening to our neighborhood. I think that Rabbi Gurary is a lone brave voice who dares to speak out and take action in this crazy time.

    responsability of school
    Guest
    responsability of school

    as responsable for his school i can’t see why its out of place to deal with issues pertaining to his school first. and then maybe go on to other things

    Don't send your kid to his school
    Guest
    Don't send your kid to his school

    Private school. Private choice. He’s not talking I the community. He’s taking on the parent body of his school. You are taking this way out of propotion.

    You have to start someplace
    Guest
    You have to start someplace

    I think it’s fine to start with stressing one issue rabbi Gurary can actually have some control over. If each of us would stress one mitzvah, and spread and work on it, we would all be much better off.
    Ms Waldman, what’s the mitzvah you are going to get everyone working on?

    Sara
    Guest
    Sara

    I am writing as an out of towner who has no personal interest. This letter is totally inappropriate. A personal attack on a director of a school who write a letter to parents in the name of the administration( which I’m sure are comprised of women). They have full right to set standards for their school. You don’t have to send your child there if you don’t want to. He didn’t pen a letter to collive telling all Lubavitch what to do. Your public attack on him And the schools rules is judgemental and harsh and the points you bring… Read more »

    Written
    Guest
    Written

    Very Well….. I hope everyone leaves his school and go back to the School the Rebbe opened BAIS RIVKAH who accepts everyone even parents who cannot pay. Gurary charges the most and is the hardest on collecting tuition

    Beautiful!!
    Guest
    Beautiful!!

    And I agree with every word!!! Tznius is so important but this harsh and scolding approach has never brought a single person closer to Torah… It pushes them away with BOTH HANDS.

    Look at the statistics, the number of Teens and young adults leaving Lubavitch has not dropped an iota because of these approaches. Rather if we focused more on LOVE, the incredible love and acceptance that the Rebbe had for every Jew, and in regard to tznius, the approach should be guidance, inspiration, education!!

    Much respect for putting your name
    Guest
    Much respect for putting your name
    yesher koach motti
    Guest
    yesher koach motti

    this is why nothing is addressed in CH/ chabad . because any issue that is brought up is right away followed by “this is a problem ? look at all the other issues we have “:…..

    Totally agree!
    Guest
    Totally agree!

    Beautifully and respectfully written. May the message reach all those who need to hear it. Thank you

    To the author
    Guest
    To the author

    While I understand what you are trying to convey, I can technically argue that all rules and regulations are silly. Why does the state focus on speeding drivers? Shouldn’t they pay more attention to child molesters? Why do police ticket drivers without seatbelts? Shouldn’t they focus on drunk drivers? Why do people go to jail for financial fraud? Shouldn’t we focus more on rapists and killers? Do you catch my drift? If you have a beef with the [ridiculous] tznius rules, call them out on it, but don’t make irrelevant comparisons like extravagant Bar Mitzvahs which is an issue of… Read more »

    Thank you rabbi Gurary
    Guest
    Thank you rabbi Gurary

    Mimenu yiru vechen yaasu

    Private school
    Guest
    Private school

    I CHOOSE to send to this school because I like these rules. If you don’t like it, don’t go to his school.

    Sickening
    Guest
    Sickening

    What makes you think its ok to embarrass a person like that? If you have something to say, say it to his face. Its a private school and if you dont wanna follow the rules, there are a lot of other people who would like to be in yoyr place. Rabbi gurary has a very well run school and i can say this because i attended bnos menachem for all of my years of school. These rules are there to hold a certain standard in school since the lubavitch world seems to lower the standard daily. Good for bnos menachem… Read more »

    Free Choice.
    Guest
    Free Choice.

    No one is being forced to send their daughter to this school. If you don`t like these rules, don`t go!
    Yes, these rules seem a little absurd but the standards in the CH community are also absurd. So, he is trying to help and fix the problem. Instead of bashing, we should applaud him that he has the courage to stand up for what is right.
    HALACHA = HALACHA, not your interpretation of halacha. End of the story.

    Don't use the Rebbe to lower your standards!
    Guest
    Don't use the Rebbe to lower your standards!

    It is very cruel to use the Rebbe’s Ahavas Yisroel as a green light to do what we want! Generally, the Rebbe’s Ahavas Yisroel even to “Reshoim” approach, was to Yidden that were Tinokos Shenishbu! In other words the Rebbe was using Ahavas Yisroel to bring Yidden back into the fold, now Chassidim or individuals who grew up in Chasidishe homes are using the Rebbe’s Ahavas Yisroel to lower His standards and scream don’t judge me cuz the Rebbe loved everyone, this is wrong!!

    General Attitude
    Guest
    General Attitude

    One person/organization cannot seriously be expected to transform all the issues that need improvement. Is it better to say-Rather than assume since we can’t fix everything let’s do nothing? it is probably better to at least focus on a very prevelant issue that when improved ( and accepted positively by parents) can actually affect the modesty in behavior as well. Although a couple of the requirements may seem somewhat ‘ over the top’ to some, what troubles me more is the attitude parents may be conveying to the next generation-for if shulchan aruch standards are ‘unacceptable’ in some areas (… Read more »

    to number 10
    Guest
    to number 10

    thats very nice and all but look at bais rivkah parents and students. half of them would look more at home in modern orthodox then in the Rebbe’s school. Kol Hakavod to Rabbi Gurary for trying to change things in his school.

    Just wondering.
    Guest
    Just wondering.

    How do you suggest to approach tznius? Because there’s a major major issue.

    bad response
    Guest
    bad response

    while the point is true, the attitude is wrong, no matter what issue is brought up, there will always be room to say that there are so many other issues that need attention more, so this is never ending. The issue Motti brought up is a true issue, although I totally agree there are many problems with his letter. You can’t just say he shouldn’t have brought it up because there are other more concerning issues. Just to mention a few issues I have with his letter: -specific tznius issues for woman should not be coming from a man, the… Read more »

    Wow - Thank you Chaya Sara Waldman
    Guest
    Wow - Thank you Chaya Sara Waldman

    Your words come from the soul and speak to the soul. You have touched upon the core of feminine “tznius” like no one else dares to – that it is the Jewish woman’s domain, that it is the Jewish woman to whom Hashem entrusted her modesty. The breakdown of the entire soul of Yiddishkeit begins when humans turn something infinite like modesty into a black and white list. It has never been, and will never be. A Moshiach world is one in which the Jewish woman and man each turn inward, and ask themselves real questions about their own modesty… Read more »

    Bnos Menachem is a farce
    Guest
    Bnos Menachem is a farce

    built for the wrong reasons as is evident by their admissions policy which flies in the face of the very spirit of the values they purport to champion. It might look sincere at the surface, but it cannot be, being that it stems from an institution who entire raison d’etre is a claim that “they are better” than a moisad — no matter how flawed — of the Rebbe’s. (See Rebbe’s letter to Nissan Nemenov re the Lishka and the Matzos they offered for sale.) Shame on the school’s admin. As an added proof, if the intention were pure and… Read more »

    Disgusting
    Guest
    Disgusting

    Thank you Rabbi Gurary

    COL Please remove this Disgusting letter ASAP!!!

    To Number 3/The truth Hurts
    Guest
    To Number 3/The truth Hurts

    Regardless of Truth or Not Truth, It is not Tznius and in no way proper for a Male to tell a Female how to dress and what to dress in.

    This article is disgusting
    Guest
    This article is disgusting

    And shows how out of touch people are with true yiddishkeit.

    The author literally totally distorts the pure intentions of the principle.

    disagree
    Guest
    disagree

    disagree with most of this letter to Rabbi Gurary I just dont get it when the one who is trying to improve a situation , or advertise a resolution or a campaign gets bombarded with,” why are you focusing on this , there are other more serious issues”. Not everyone is talented to improve any situation. yes many comments here are spot on, there are basic rules, standards also which doesnt imply that this chosid watches how the ladies are dressed. ITS BASICS and what I(I am a lady) hate most are those red polish toe nails in a open… Read more »

    She
    Guest
    She

    Is the real Chosid and he is not

    Waldman/pseudonym
    Guest
    Waldman/pseudonym

    Dear author,
    You’re obviously not using your real name. I will assume you live in crown heights and have seen the Great! Lack of tznius on the streets here.
    What would you suggest, and how to go about, fixing this?

    to the writer
    Guest
    to the writer

    What has one thing got to do with another.
    If a man such as Rabbi Gurary notices these things,
    it must be because it has gotten completely out of control and needs to be addreed.
    Thank you Rabbi Gurary

    To #2
    Guest
    To #2

    I’m so sorry, but no average man can be compared to A. The Lubavitcher Rebbe. or B. R’ Yosef Karo of the Shulchan Aruch.
    No woman need take take tznius instructions from any “man” but them.

    Bnos Menachem Parent
    Guest
    Bnos Menachem Parent

    I am infinitely grateful for the wonderful chinuch my daughter received at Bnos Menachem. I wish Rabbi Gurary and the entire faculty tremendous brachos for them and their families for helping my daughter to be where she is today. I am happy to abide by what they ask and have tremendous hakaras hatov for the wonderful work they are doing.

    Dear Rabbi Gourari
    Guest
    Dear Rabbi Gourari

    Thank you very much for being a beacon of light in Crown Heights. I understand that when we as humans, really want something we can no longer tell if it is good or bad. That is why those who like dressing un-Tzniudikly will have a really hard time understanding why it is morally bad. But this is the challenge of our generation. Thank G-d it is not as bad as the challenge of the generation of the Haskalah. I tell my daughters this, and I say, will the next generation look at you as one who fell in the challenge… Read more »

    maven
    Guest
    maven

    sara.. some may consider you brave for attaching your name.. while others consider it pure stupidity that you’re not smart enough to know to hide your face…

    i wonder what mitzva you are taking on… i’ll be looking out for another ‘chaya sara waldman’ letter to follow..can’t wait as i know it”ll forsure be the only important thing to tackle.. getting more and more curious… what will be your number 1 priority thing to focus on

    #15 & #20
    Guest
    #15 & #20

    Right on, took the words out of my mouth.

    its his School
    Guest
    its his School

    its his school he can do what he wants, why should he worry about everyone? his main focus is teh school speak to the rabbanim if you have other issues

    Obsession gone bad
    Guest
    Obsession gone bad

    Is it me or has this become an obsession? PICTURE THIS: a rebbetizn making a rule that there is no alcohol allowed at a boysyeshiva. If you have you will be kicked out. Or about zera levatala.. IT’S NOT HER PLACE. Signed by kids and parents. This should’ve been written by a woman. Yes we had tzaddikim and holy men clarify the rules but now a days… it needs to be by women for women. We keep picking on the women. ENOUGH. Tznius is about modesty. Humility. We keep shoving it in there faces – what’s tznius about that? Why… Read more »

    great job Rabbi G
    Guest
    great job Rabbi G

    thank you for keeping the standards of your school at he highest level possible

    to the author; You are a brave woman but lets be true to life, our children deserve only the BEST and the highest statndard is a proven method to engrain in them the values and maldaptive learned behavior needed to cope with the resistance presented by secular society that they will experience at some point in their life.

    As a parent I have seen and experienced this and believe me I tell you with love, he is doing EXACTLY THE PROPPER THING

    Free choice
    Guest
    Free choice

    Its not free choice beacuse parents signed up to BM with one set of rules and now the rules are being changed. Parents are forced to accept the change or their daughters will be kicked out of school- a big deal for middle schooler or any girl in fact.

    Missing the point
    Guest
    Missing the point

    I love how the author “blames” her lack of appreciation for the great mivtza of tznius on the Rebbes approach. I would recommend you listen to the strong sichos about the standard of tznius in the country, and than tell me that the Rebbe said to have ahavas yisroel, so that means you cannot make any rules or enforce basic Yiddishe standards.

    Never heard of something so ridiculous in my life.

    "I also question your tone and approach"
    Guest
    "I also question your tone and approach"

    Actually the letter seems very positive and gentle. The attitude of the author is very negative, hateful, arrogant, and stupid. She disguises her negativity with “compassion” and “tolerance”.

    As for the guidelines… rules are rules, lady.

    Mrs waldman
    Guest
    Mrs waldman

    Rabbi Gurary is not disregarding all the other issues you have mentioned, but is rather concerned for this specific issue which, in my opinion, he has every right to be concerned about. Because, although he may be a man and therefore may seem to be the wrong person to bring this up, he is trying to run a successful school and this issue is hindering his success.

    In general
    Guest
    In general

    Crown heights is missing a variety in girls schools and each school is entitled to their rules which in crown heights there will be many who agree and many who do not. #11, beautiful comment , there is room in crown heights for a school with a loving approach like that!

    You are way off
    Guest
    You are way off

    There;s no connection f anything you wrote to what he wrote. Beacue there’s other issues he cant start with one? Who are you to decide?

    lets face it and solve it
    Guest
    lets face it and solve it

    I totally agree with Rabbi Gurary. I don’t feel that he’s kicking someone out of his school for not being ztnius. He’s making it clear that the standard is way too low and it’s something that’s needs to be changed. If you don’t agree with him, its not his problem. He has a school with standards that he determines. And I’m sorry to tell you, that if you don’t agree that the ztnius level can be improved a lot, then either you’re blind or already immuned to it (wich is really sad). For all of you who think that we… Read more »

    CHUTZPAH
    Guest
    CHUTZPAH

    With all due respect, there is tremendous chutzpah in your letter. 1) You start of by questioning “why a man – especially a frum man and a chossid – could ever imagine it is appropriate to speak to a woman about her body?” seriously?! Are you kidding me? He runs a girl’s school and has every right to speak on the subject of tznius. I bet you also question the right of every rov to pasken on issues related to women? As it is very well known, there is a real issue with thznius in our community and it is… Read more »

    please take this post down
    Guest
    please take this post down

    its pure loshon hora and it doesnt belong on collive.com. if the writter has an issue with it then he can speak to the rabbi himself.

    im apauled the collive would even put something like this up!

    Kol hakavod
    Guest
    Kol hakavod

    Bh some put his foot down.
    All our schools should follow rabbi Gurary bravery !!!

    Mr gurary
    Guest
    Mr gurary

    Please direct me to what page of your Chinese auction book reperesents צניעות

    Only satmar and misnagdim talk against shaitlach
    Guest
    Only satmar and misnagdim talk against shaitlach

    C

    Yehuda
    Guest
    Yehuda

    Thanks for speaking up and taking a stand! To #2 he ain’t no Rebbe and everyone knows its just a few people focusing on the wrong things To #3 Article says focus on bigger problems instead of knit picking colors To #5 Brave means help fix the foundation not help pick out the drapes! (the word your thinking is kanoy) To #6 I can think of 9 things that need fixing before this issue To #7 We are a community theres no such thing as a privet school (where did he send his kids?) To #8 dont pass the buck… Read more »

    Motty  well said
    Guest
    Motty well said

    But your wife should of signd it
    Your letter reflects her chinuch not yours

    ???
    Guest
    ???

    Ur saying Tznius can’t be addressed because there are other issues??? Tznius is one of the most important issues itself needed to be addressed years ago!!!!

    Wow, I guess every posek is terrible
    Guest
    Wow, I guess every posek is terrible

    According to the problem this lady has with R’ Gurary, she probably has the same problem with the Lubavitcher Rebbe, the Satmar Rebbe, Rav Wosner, Rav Elyashiv, etc, who all made (with some technical variations) the same statement about tznius. I am not a lubavitcher, so I can tell you, that everybody laughs (or cries) at chabad’s chalishus in tznius. Kol hakavod to R’ Gurary for finally raising chabad (or, I should say, some of its members) to the tznius standard of everybody else. Chabad is a beautiful chassidus, but how can other people realize that if it its members… Read more »

    The whole point
    Guest
    The whole point

    of the article is that if we really want kedusha and tznius, then we must focus on the entire understanding of tznius. What does it have to do with barmitzvas is precisely because we are taught to believe that tznius is just about ladies bodies, but in truth it is all about a whole way that a jew lives and breathes. Tznius is the opposite of ostentation and attention grabbing; that’s why a barmitzvah that’s the opposite of ‘aidel’ in its extravagance is very relevant. Otherwise we aren’t really about being aidel, or we wouldn’t wave away the ‘untznius’ of… Read more »

    Great Letter and great point
    Guest
    Great Letter and great point

    So well written, so respectful, and so true. Thank you for signing your name and for being such a great example for all the women who don’t have the courage to speak out the way you do.

        *** Another comment ***
    Guest
    *** Another comment ***

    I do not know who this Chaya Sara Waldman is who so proudly attached her name to her diatribe or who Rabbi Gurary is (although my daughter did attend that school years ago) so this response is based solely on what I am reading. For the sake of brevity, I will make my points to the point, from my perspective as a shliach of 30 years. Her letter is full of ongeblozenkeit and chutzpa. Brings nothing to the table and is typical of what todays shluchim respond to any mussar. Rabbi Gurary as a leader in a girl’s school is… Read more »

    mob
    Guest
    mob

    What am incomprehensible load of gibberish!

    This woman’s has zero skill at presenting a persuasive argument.

    Yay...we have other issues as well...
    Guest
    Yay...we have other issues as well...

    What’s you point?

    TALK THE TALK
    Guest
    TALK THE TALK

    LETS SEE THE HOLY RABBI GURARIE SHLITA SPEND TWO WEEKS IN ALIYA or ALIYA GIRLS.

    Talk the talk Gouraire! You want to make change lets see you face the reality on the street with your own eyes.

    Will you accept the challenge, O holy Yid?

    Agree and disagree
    Guest
    Agree and disagree

    Ok whether its priority or not does not contradict needing to mention it. I agree that it isnt tznius for a man to be the one to dispense rules of the way a women should cover her body. Halacha is halacha, so that is indisputable… which is why is not ok for anyone to ADD to it!!!!! Does it say in shluchan aruch to have a shoulder length shaitel? Or clear nail polish? Yes, it is a more aidel, refined look, so if an individual wants to look more refined, all the power to them. And i get that its… Read more »

    חבדניק
    Guest
    חבדניק

    מוטי, גוט גיזוגט!!!! ישר כוח

    It's halacha
    Guest
    It's halacha

    From your letter I gather that Rabbi Gourary is simply instilling tznius and eidelkeit in HIS school.
    The reform Jews also scream Ahavas Yisroel when their level of Yiddishkeit is challenged

    The mirror
    Guest
    The mirror

    When you see someone doing something that is not correct remember you are looking at a mirror the only thing you see is yourself

    Why mix problems
    Guest
    Why mix problems

    What you wrote are problems, but so is tznius!!!
    Why mix kasha mit borscht???

    If bullying, alcohol, lashon hara, etc are problems you see, address them and do something about them!

    Doesn’t negate what rabbi gurary is doing in his school. Kudos to someone that is setting a standard in tznius (and I don’t send to bnos menachem)

    Well written
    Guest
    Well written

    I struggled with tznius when I lived in crown heights. Letters of rebuke just turned me off and had only negative effects. When I moved to a different community that embraced me with warmth and no judgement I eventually and naturally started behaving and dressing tznius to the degree that our is no struggle at all. If we only treat people in crown heights with the same way we do in a chabad house, we can have huge success in bringing people closer to yiddishkeit. The Rebbe gave us the tools on how to mekarev yidden. why are we following… Read more »

    this whole situation is out of proportion
    Guest
    this whole situation is out of proportion

    Let me start by saying that I am not the tznius queen and that my girls would probably never be accepted at bnos menachem for a variety of reasons, not only tznius. But I feel that Rabbi Gurary’s letter was not written in a scolding manner at all. He is setting guildelines for his school, period. Are there more important issues facing the community like the ones you mention? Of course there are!!! Plenty!!! But he is addressing his parent body now and what he wants of them, and not trying to fix the entire community. That is a separate… Read more »

    Lol
    Guest
    Lol

    at least the hs girls dont have to wear 7 inch skirts like bcm

    LEGGINGS?
    Guest
    LEGGINGS?

    can someone tell me what is wrong with leggings in subdued colors dark gray, burgundy, navy, dark purple, etc. can someone please educate me????
    .

    totally off
    Guest
    totally off

    collive should never even have printed this letter, it’s so ridiculous that it’s not even worth answering. Rabbi Gurary can set whatever standards he wants and I’m sure it’s with the agreement of others with whom he consulted.

    This attitude is ridiculous
    Guest
    This attitude is ridiculous

    Two wrongs don’t make a right-
    The fact that there are people who need help for certain things
    HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MAKING SURE SOMETHING ELSE IS DONE CORRECTLY

    Almost every time someone writes a bout tznius this happens.

    The halacha saya that one should be tznius and thatit is ultimately for our own benefit and brachos.

    Please stop trying to divert the need for improvement in tznius by saying how a bunch of other stuff need to be fixed…

    Go fix those things ALSO, but not instead….

    beis chaya mushka & ateres chaya
    Guest
    beis chaya mushka & ateres chaya

    mrs. waldman,

    why are you singling out rabbi gurary?

    the whole bnos menachem team, as well as the beis chaya mushka and ateres chaya teams (90% of which are women!..) say and write and behave the same!!!

    Support of Rabbi Gurary
    Guest
    Support of Rabbi Gurary

    To the author: YOU should be ashamed of yourself to embarrass someone publicly. It totally contradicts the whole purpose of your “OP ED”. Are you seriously saying that we have to ignore Halachos to accommodate the sick? Let me remind you the 3 Zchusim the Yiden had in Mitzrayim that earned them Yetzias Mitzrayim. 1. They didn’t change their names; kept to Jewish names. 2. They didn’t change their language; kept to the Hebrew language. 3. They didn’t change their clothing style; they kept to modesty. Chazal say they “Stood out”. Some thought for you. And for the fact you’re… Read more »

    Lo Zu Haderech
    Guest
    Lo Zu Haderech

    The Rebbe taught us how to spread yiddishkeit by emulating Ahron Kohen Gadol–Umekarvan Latorah! Not by forcing mothers to sign contracts in order for their daughters to get into a school. Only by inspiring others to follow the torah will it have a lasting effect.

    Lo Zu Haderech, v”Lo Zu Hair.

    To number 12
    Guest
    To number 12

    There’s no one with this name in our tzach list.
    It’s a pen name, only used for writing pashkvil

    with the old breed
    Guest
    with the old breed

    The role of Rebbe and Rov is filed by a man. Is this the problem? Maybe CH needs one Rov…….

    Dress Code
    Guest
    Dress Code

    Every institution, place of work and school has the right to set their own dress code standards. These can be set based on religious values or any other standard of decorum. These requirements can include people who wish to enter the premises. Rabbi Gurary, as well as any other leader of a school has the right to set their standards and can expect full compliance or don’t enroll in that program. I work at a modern Hebrew day school. We have a dress code for our students as well as the parents who enter our campus i.e. no pants for… Read more »

    talking Rebbe
    Guest
    talking Rebbe

    Just pointing out that when you mention the Rebbe’s focus on ahavas Yisroel etc., the atmosphere in Crown Heights was SO different. We all dressed with care about snius. No one knowingly uncovered their knees or elbows, went without socks etc. It was a non-issue, except amongst newcomers who were ‘learning’ and eager to grow in observance. I am saddened to imagine how we let the Rebbe down with our lax attitudes to snius now. Trying to raise the standards in one school is not wrong. Perhaps they can try to do it with a more loving or warmer approach… Read more »

    Thank you rabbi gurary
    Guest
    Thank you rabbi gurary

    Thanks you i totaly agree with him. In Israel they have the same guidelines . He is helping our mothers to be a good example to our children. I myself use to dress less tznius . In Montreal we are not asked todo these things when bringing our kids to school but out mosdos refrain from hiring anyone who doesn’t go by these guidelines and I respect it very much. All these styles and trends I sometimes forget it’s all made for ppl to attract the opposite gender.. If we dress classy we are dignified and are role models to… Read more »

    Halacha
    Guest
    Halacha

    Yasher Koach Rabbi Gurary! Many scvhools have dress codes for students and parents, including other schools in Crown Heights. These dress codes are simply clarifying and requiring adherence to Halacha. If you wish to start a campaign regarding other areas of weakness in our community – Kol HaKovod and Hatzlocha Raba

    A Man Dedicated to EVERY Aspect of the Community
    Guest
    A Man Dedicated to EVERY Aspect of the Community

    Dear Author,

    Have you, or some you know, attended the health lecture just a few weeks ago hosted in Bnos menachem for the health and well being of our community?

    Enough said.

    Shocked
    Guest
    Shocked

    Seriously I am shocked at the harshness of this womans letter! Here we finally have someone who is brave, yes, I use the word ‘brave’ because just look what a bashing he got for it. . . who is brave enough to stand up and say it for what it really is. . . and the results are beyond shocking! the tznious in CH is mind blowingly disgusting!! and I think that in our heart of hearts most of us know that, but few of us, ‘dare’ stand up and say it out loud! Its been a slow and gradual… Read more »

    Feel your pain...
    Guest
    Feel your pain...

    THE BNOS MENACHEM STAFF DO NOT CARE ABOUT CHASSIDISHKEIT/ YIDDISHKEIT!!!!!! they only care about STATUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

    sorry collive but this is wrong
    Guest
    sorry collive but this is wrong

    please do not address this issue at all. a letter was sent by a private school asking mothers to act or dress a certain way. you don;t want to send there, don’t , but stop trashing the director or the school online. we all know in the deep part of our hearts that tznius is a serious issue in lubavitch. but somehow when it is posted on a public forum, the chillul lubavitch becomes worse. instead of keeping quite, mrs waldman has aired more dirty laundry for everyone to see and especially, as mentioned by others, when the rebbe is… Read more »

    who is forcing your daughter to join his school!!
    Guest
    who is forcing your daughter to join his school!!

    No one is forcing you to send your daughter to Benos Menachem. If you don’t like his policy go somewhere else.
    Beis Rivka Yeshiva of Flatbush there are plenty of choices.

    Taking stock
    Guest
    Taking stock

    let’s see if these methods work. It’s not a new thing that BM is implementing, it’s been around for a long time. How do the graduates of his school compare to other girls in CH? Basically, no difference – overall they are not more tznius than the others. And also, ask the highschoolers themselves how they feel about all of this, and what they get from it. You might be surprised at some of the responses. So let’s not treat this as something brand new that hasnt been proven yet, lets look at the results of almost two decades of… Read more »

    totally agree
    Guest
    totally agree

    and it is totally appropriate.
    a public position, taken by public figure, publicized online with his permission/ encouragement.

    ??????????
    Guest
    ??????????

    Why don’t YOU address the other issues you are talking about?????? rabbi gurari is in charge of this school, so he did something that he thinks will improve the tznius in the school (and maybe have an affect on others). there are others in CH trying to promote more learning. others are trying to promote more mivtzaim, others are promoting helping families with money. etc/ etc. etc. Why should Rabbi Gurary be the one to promote other things. He is promoting tznius. second thing. Rabbi gurary felt that his approach will increase tznius. maybe it wont. maybe it was the… Read more »

    At long last
    Guest
    At long last

    Thank Rabbi Gurary for making a Kidush Lubavitch
    many more should follow you
    whats going on in CH is one big Chilul Lubavitch
    if people dont like the rules let them go to Flatbush

    He needs some coaching
    Guest
    He needs some coaching

    If parent modesty is an issue for him then approach it in a psychologically sound and productive manner. Do you think this little paper will make people feel good and actually dress “better?” Nope. Adults don’t like being treated like children, and the color of nail polish is foolish etc at best. This is part of the problem, when you try to restrict people from a negative place it backfires. Create a fun weekday night event for parents, with other educational topics and perhaps have someone speak about the school policy for children and how important it is for the… Read more »

    Finally someone brave enough to sign their name
    Guest
    Finally someone brave enough to sign their name

    Call it unfortunate or call it hashems will, but religious leaders are struggling to keep Halacha life relevant in today’s society.

    The younger generation is not buying into as much, most observance took place during oppression, not just physical oppression but limited information.

    The same reasons we were discouraged from going to college so we should not get alternative views. Today that information is everywhere, we are exposed to so many new and old world views and are left with the questions we seek to find answers to.

    great community
    Guest
    great community

    so much chessed here – whether you’re a kallah, a chosson, no money for yom tov, have sick family member, a kimpatorin etc… there are people giving so much of themselves to meet their needs!!! a gmach for everything. ashreinu ma tov chelkeinu! mi k’amcho yisroel!!
    let’s focus on the positive.

    kids should sign contract!!!!
    Guest
    kids should sign contract!!!!

    if Motty wants to be taken serious….kids should sign contract!!!! on top of parents….

    MBA

    Abe
    Guest
    Abe

    In your open letter I think you proved the need for rabbi g’s letter banter. You keep mentioning little girls, rabbi g is not talking about little girls.

    With your attitude you will always find something else would you can say why you starting fixing this problem there are much bigger problems, such an attitude leads to complainers
    Ps. You seem to be very good at figuring out the local problems, you would probably be the perfect candidate to start fixing them.

    TALIBAN
    Guest
    TALIBAN

    great response to rabbi gurary

    its exactly these control tactics which belong in williamsburg or taliban, and the way of life where everyone has such strong opinions about each other, that is turning the youth off.

    and it is why I’m glad i moved away from crown heights.

    Practicality
    Guest
    Practicality

    Does he think that women will change their wardrobes to mod calve and cut their wigs?
    Make rules practical.

    Hodu lashem ki tov -
    Guest
    Hodu lashem ki tov -

    Neturei karta has nothing on us…

    the Shawl Women are moving in soon – if they can afford the rents 🙁

    Wow completely disagree with u
    Guest
    Wow completely disagree with u

    I visit CH somewhat infrequently and each time I am saddend by how any mode of dress has become ok in a neighborhood that was formerly a role model for Chassidishe lifestyle. Sure the child who is bullied, as mine was, deserves care. Sure there are many issues the community needs to deal with but Tznius is not something to put at the bottom of the list. Nor does it mean that because Tznius, basic modest dress, is being focused on, that all other issues don’t matter. I was so so impressed with the tone of the letter and the… Read more »

    to # 10
    Guest
    to # 10

    I would like to do what you suggest but I LIKE TO SEND MY KIDS TO A SCHOOL THAT PAY TEACHERS AND STRIKE EVERY MONDAY AND THURSDAY.

    Classes
    Guest
    Classes

    They should talk to the girls openly about sensitive issues and help them express themselves.
    Figure out what the underlying issue is.
    That’s more important.
    Shame should never be used to discuss modesty.
    Are the staff warm to the girls ?Do the girls feel judged or respected?
    There’s more to.modesty than blue nail polish.

    Sickining!!1
    Guest
    Sickining!!1

    It is because people like YOU the author of this horrible letter that we have a problem with tsinus in crowm heights!!! Why are we never ever allowed to talk about tsinus???!!! Because the TRUTH HURTS. Because we are well aware that tsinus is a huge problem amd you dont want to face it. Crown heights has become a desaster and since no Rabonim is doing anything at least princapls are taking care of the issue in their school. It is sad to see how women are getting dresses … i dont understand for the life of me how their… Read more »

    Reb motti Gur ari responsibility of the school
    Guest
    Reb motti Gur ari responsibility of the school

    when the school bnot menatchem opened . Was on Tahar hakodesh , not mining another regular school School on Taharat hakodesh , the subject Znihut. Has to be the first paruritiy. The parents of the children want to sent the kids to the school and biclalhas to wear znihets clothing . We standing in the time before Moshiach is coming Please parents give a dugma Chaya to you won children . Dress nice but cover your elbows, wear long skirts . . It’s can be nice but znihets . And bhz”h your children will fallow your way and you will… Read more »

    Gender equality
    Guest
    Gender equality

    What about the men?
    Why are shorn beards ok?Grow the beards!
    Bring back some basic Judaism.
    Appalling to see how many men don’t wear tzitzis!
    Let’s get back to basics before we make women cut their wigs.

    Tznius...
    Guest
    Tznius...

    Forget about Tznius for one minute, this is absolutely lashon hara!

    School with double standards
    Guest
    School with double standards

    The tznius rule does not seem to apply to relatives of the director

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Anonymous

    I agree with some of the things ,but

    You shouldn’t bring other problems to hide this one
    Saying that there is bigger problems ,yes sure there is
    But it doesn’t excuse the fact that this one also exists
    What you should only solve the big ones?the smaller ones are not important? Yes they are ,they are still a problem.
    Also a lot of the bigger problems are actually caused by this little one

    next Takana (pronounced Sakana) is the SmartPhones?!
    Guest
    next Takana (pronounced Sakana) is the SmartPhones?!

    good luck on “filtering” the cells.

    and checking whom they date for Marriage – and say yes or no – when the time comes….

    what about the issue of addiction
    Guest
    what about the issue of addiction

    Who is addressing this very pressing and urgent issue of addiction?

    y is "tzniut" rules written by a Man????????
    Guest
    y is "tzniut" rules written by a Man????????

    Motty should have had a Woman write it …to begin with !!!!!!

    Complete am haraatzas
    Guest
    Complete am haraatzas

    This and other such articles and comments are utterly ridiculous and have no place in normative Judaism. You may not realize it but the entire frum world is horrified by the tznius standards or lack thereof in lubavitch today. We were meant to be the standard bearers that the rest of the world would look up to and emulate. Instead it seems like the age old issue that misnagdim had with chassidim about their lack of yiras shomayim and sub par keeping of halacha (which in those days was actually not the case) has actually come to pass. You write… Read more »

    I agree
    Guest
    I agree

    Agree with the rabbi. Tznius is a major issue in crown heights and it seems most woman totally disregard the laws. Its already at the point where it is spiritually dangerous for a man to walk down kingston avenue and the area. Not to mention it is also a danger for the woman. I hope things will change for the better. We always criticize outer circles of Yiddishkeit but meanwhile the issue within can no longer be ignored.

    Its not personal,  just business
    Guest
    Its not personal, just business

    I think Rabbi Gurary is in the right! Firstly, There is no reason why he cannot elevate his school to a higher standard.
    Secondly, I think Mrs. Waldman forgot to mention world hunger and save the whales. I mean seriously, it’s not Rabbi Gurary’s job to solve all the messed up things that go on in crown heights. He’s dealing with his school.

    Gurary
    Guest
    Gurary

    To the Author
    You are a hundred and ten percent right
    This is the reason we send our children to mosdos established by the rabbeim, not some Rich man who’s standards were never up to par. He and company built this school on kinna, taiva, kovod. It can never last and if it does, all children attending will not have an everlasting security in chinuch as the founder is anything but a tzaddik. So this author plainly said what all of us are thinking.

    A man should not interefer with a womans tznius
    Guest
    A man should not interefer with a womans tznius

    I actually cringed to read the new tznius rules that were being instructed by a Rabbi. What does a man know about a woman’s struggle with wearing a sheitel that he can now impose a rule about the length? Or the color of a woman’s nail polish? Or the delicate balance of trying to be attractive to her husband while maintaining a modest dress code? I agree with the author being uncomfortable with seeing these rules written by a Rabbi. If Tznius issues need be to be addressed, I think the manner by which it is addressed should be Tznius… Read more »

    Personal opinion
    Guest
    Personal opinion

    Chabads job is to spread light and not darkness but that doesnt mean we can neglect Halacha. Our community has standards and the issue is tznius it being taken seriously should be included in your list of other ailments that befall Lubavitch today.

    COL???
    Guest
    COL???

    Although I agree with the content of this letter, I think it is highly inappropriate for COL to post an attack on an individual’s private letter to a parent body of a private school! COL you must decide are you a heimisher news mazel tov site, or are you the CNN and FOX news of Chabad?! If it’s the latter then bring it on, and allow a multitude of diverse writers to contribute to your site, and open up for proper debate!!!

    #Democrats
    Guest
    #Democrats

    So you are saying this is a non issue because there are other issues? Sadly too many people agree with your (can’t even be called) rational..

    To #55
    Guest
    To #55

    Didnt she go to bais yaakov of boro park

    Comment
    Guest
    Comment

    To all those saying “Ahavas Yisroel!!”, please note the pasuk next to that one. “Hochaiach Tochiach” (Rebuke your fellow)

    To #60
    Guest
    To #60

    Though your point may be valid, your wording: “who this chaya … etc is…” is inappropriate language, condescending and disrespectful! I sure hope you don’t use that language when dealing with a local chabad supporter who disagrees with you !

    Ch Resident
    Guest
    Ch Resident

    Why are people upset with what the school requests … it is a private school … he is the boss … you have a choice either send your children there and follow the rules or take your child or children out … and if all the students leave the he will need to decide what he should and or like to do … though to bicker and complain in a forum I think is wrong being he is not all all tellers by the public at large what do only the ones they attend his school ..

    Rebbes letter on tznius
    Guest
    Rebbes letter on tznius

    The Rebbe actually did say our girls should dress like bais Yaakov at least

    To the author
    Guest
    To the author

    Rabbi Gurary is a leader. He does his best to help in all areas. But if he made a school and it’s purpose was to have a school in our neighborhood that has proper tznius standards (since the other schools do not), He has ever right to print guidelines for his school. You seem troubled by it. You must be one of the many not so tznius people of our neighborhood. True, we have many other problems in our community, but as a leader in his school, he has to do this to keep his standards, which are obviously the… Read more »

    Just to add to those above
    Guest
    Just to add to those above

    His school = His rules.

    Well said #60
    Guest
    Well said #60

    Totally agree with #15 and #60

    TO #58 BINGO!
    Guest
    TO #58 BINGO!

    At least someone gets it!

    Shameful shamefula article
    Guest
    Shameful shamefula article

    Finaly someone stands up to tznius in lubavitch and you bring in unrelated issues?? Dont bring my rebbe into this.
    People have totally thrown this away bwcause noone dares stands up to them.

    You go girl!!!
    Guest
    You go girl!!!

    By focusing on the exterior, we are shifting the focus away from what truly matters- MIDOS!!!

    Someone standing up!
    Guest
    Someone standing up!

    Can someone pls explain to me what mecharcherei riv means ?!

    Classes
    Guest
    Classes

    They should talk to the girls openly about sensitive issues and help them express themselves.
    Figure out what the underlying issue is.
    That’s more important.
    Shame should never be used to discuss modesty.
    Are the staff warm to the girls ?Do the girls feel judged or respected?
    There’s more to.modesty than blue nail polish.

    Beautifully written
    Guest
    Beautifully written

    I am glad somebody is willing to speak out against the sexism found in our community.

    Let's learn
    Guest
    Let's learn

    The new set of rules do not say that tznius is more important than bullying, lashon hara, good middos etc. Rabbi Gurary is addressing ONE of the current challenges; modesty with regard to attire and appearance. Although I wish a different approach were to be used, such as education via collaboration, the new set of rules demonstrate the commitment and confidence Rabbi Gurary has to the community and in the parent body and students of his school. There is no doubt about it. The mode of dress here in crown heights leaves much to be desired. When someone is lacking… Read more »

    What a Chutzpah Chaya Soro!
    Guest
    What a Chutzpah Chaya Soro!

    You should think before you publicly write such foolish letters. You are obviously very misguided to say the least.

    Crown Heights and Lubavitch in general needs many more such leaders to guide and yes sometimes reprimand.

    Just to add to those above
    Guest
    Just to add to those above

    His school = His rules.

    Larry
    Guest
    Larry

    To # 60 I believe today the problem is people have issue with trusting anyone or having respect for anyone and therefore a lot of this were people disagree with Rabbi Gurary is out of lack of respect for anyone. I don’t know who the right person is in today’s society that people would respect and knew that he had no agenda other than doing good maybe then there would be no arguments to such an important issue . Moshiac now

    Kvetch
    Guest
    Kvetch

    “How dare you address ‘X’ when you are aren’t talking about ‘Y’?!”

    What a silly letter, whatever issue you deal with I can always complain because what about this other unrelated issue that you are aren’t fixing.

    Unsettling
    Guest
    Unsettling

    There is something ugly and not beautiful in the least with detailing to woman exactly how they should be covering their body parts.

    Bnos Menachem Parent
    Guest
    Bnos Menachem Parent

    I am infinitely grateful for the wonderful chinuch my daughter received at Bnos Menachem. I wish Rabbi Gurary and the entire faculty tremendous brachos for them and their families for helping my daughter to be where she is today. I am happy to abide by what they ask and have tremendous hakaras hatov for the wonderful work they are doing.

    Great Letter!
    Guest
    Great Letter!

    Can we all agree that these standards are NOT halacha? Since when was wearing light nail polish and hair at shoulder length halacha? It’s absolutely ridiculous when people try to add rules to Judaism. This is what turns people off. Additionally, it is highly inappropriate for a Rabbi to address women on how to dress.

    Narashkiet
    Guest
    Narashkiet

    Love peace light and aseh tov… standards are standards and Torah is Torah and principles are principles.

    Nothing more than a distortion of the Rebbes words

    The first red flag
    Guest
    The first red flag

    For years the rebbe would not allow another girls school besides beth rivkah. Aftet gimel tammuz gurary opens new school against the rebbes clear wishes. So he clearly is no longer within the rebbes group. He has lost his way.

    embarrrased
    Guest
    embarrrased

    Bravo to you for writing this response, and with your name attached!!
    Are there no men’s tznius issues that need addressing? No men who wear denim, no men who ‘touch’ their beards, no men who wear inappropriate clothing.
    If people can’t see how ‘off’ it looks for a man to go into such detail about women’s clothing, that is proof that our society has reached a very low point indeed.
    Also, private school is not the issue, the letter was publicized on COL. That is to what people are responding.

    A frankly true response
    Guest
    A frankly true response

    Ms.Chaya Sara,
    Your words speak to my heart. So ever true,couldn’t have said it better my self. Thank you for standing up and saying what needed to be said.

    Dear Parent:
    Guest
    Dear Parent:

    It’s time to send all the Girls To Bais Rivka!!! And Leave “Benos Menachem” with the “Flashlight” And The “Tape Measure” of The Tznius like in Satmar…

    Mansplain much?
    Guest
    Mansplain much?

    Any other suggestion for how and when women should talk, walk, cook or parent or shall I say mother? Perhaps we should wear cloaks and change our names to OF[insert husband’s name] to minimize objectification.

    Beautiful and thoughtful response bringing up pressing and. Overlooked relevant issues that could stenthen the community

    Dear Sarah
    Guest
    Dear Sarah

    Your obviously going through a very rough time in your Judaism, and your place in the community. As a father in our community, and as a parent of children in his school, I agree 100% with the outlined guidelines. I don’t know you, but chances are you are not a modest dresser, and your children are probably rebellious. As a result, I do not want my children going to a school with your children, bringing your standards into the classroom. Therefore, I send my kids to his school. His school is a place of halacha guidelines along with the proper… Read more »

    I don't keep tznius
    Guest
    I don't keep tznius

    Firstly this letter is something I do not agree with and would never ever be able to adhere to. That being said, I would never think to bend the rules of the school and confuse my children. I know who I am as a person and although I was brought up lubavitch and still partake in the community, I know the MO school system is better for me. I don’t get the outrage. If you are unhappy about the schools standards, why send your kids there? Don’t try to confuse your children by breaking the rules, they will no longer… Read more »

    Why the outrage
    Guest
    Why the outrage

    When someone tries to improve tznius…
    Where’s the bigger outrage for the lack of tznius

    And yes I’m a proud Bnos Menachem parent that finds these new rules difficult but this response is pathetic…shift the response to those lowering the standards, not to those trying to elevate it….
    Looking for a worse problem than one being addressed doesn’t solve anything

    daas torah
    Guest
    daas torah

    to all know know the matzav of tzniyus became very liberal in our community unfortunately, to the point were the chabad rabonim feel not in place or power to enforce it.. As such private organizations and schools do carry much power. Yasher koach to The principal which has clear views on enforcing finally our chabad standards lost to the control of the masses.

    THANK YOU RABBI GURARI
    Guest
    THANK YOU RABBI GURARI

    YOUR A TRUE HERO

    THE FIRST HALACHA IN ALTER REBBES SHULCHAN ARCH IS :
    אל יבוש מפני המלעיגים
    חזק ואמץ בעבודת הקדושה ה

    It's about Chinuch
    Guest
    It's about Chinuch

    The author says that Rabbi Gurary is not going to have a positive influence on the mothers. However, he isn’t trying to change the mothers. The maidelach are his concern. When maidelach see a mother picking her daughter from school, and the mother is not dressed tznius, it undercuts the whole educational process for all the maidelach that the school works so hard for.

    Carpenter
    Guest
    Carpenter

    What an empty article devoid of any material substance, clearly motivated by personal anguish about the fact that a male Rabbi is requesting adherence to religious standards from female (mothers and students) who wish to attend his private religious school. It’s utter lunacy to accuse him of being disingenuous for not openly tackling every issue that afflicts our community. This man is tackling a grave issue that most people wouldn’t dare to, and he deserves an abundance of gratitude from those of us – the silent majority – who still care about the spiritual well being of our community. For… Read more »

    Dear Sarah
    Guest
    Dear Sarah

    Your obviously going through a very rough time in your Judaism, and your place in the community. As a father in our community, and as a parent of children in his school, I agree 100% with the outlined guidelines. I don’t know you, but chances are you are not a modest dresser, and your children are probably rebellious. As a result, I do not want my children going to a school with your children, bringing your standards into the classroom. Therefore, I send my kids to his school. His school is a place of halacha guidelines along with the proper… Read more »

    בחירות לרבניות השכונה
    Guest
    בחירות לרבניות השכונה

    כשקראתי את מכתבה של Chaya Sara Waldman֚ כמו כן מספר תגובות שמופיעים למעלה ־ עלה בדעתי שצריכים לעשות בחירות לרבניות השכונה שהן יורו לנשים את דיני הצניעות ואיך להתלבש (ואולי גם בדיני מראות) ־ מכיון שלרבנים חס ושלום אסור לפסוק בדיני נשים

    Missing one clause
    Guest
    Missing one clause

    The letter from the school is missing a clause.

    All rules will be waved for a fee. The school had no problem with parents that have standards lower than Modern Orthodox, they were all wealthy.

    Really??
    Guest
    Really??

    Please don’t use the Rebbe and his ahavas Israel as an excuse for everything. Yes, the Rebbe had ahavas Yisroel for every Yid but he did also have standards for his community. I’m pretty sure he would fully agree with these guidelines for this school. The tznius in CH is at an all time low!! Do you think the Rebbe would be happy these days with the tznius of CH? I’m not a prime example myself, but whoa some things I see here wouldn’t even pass in any MO community. And yes, we have bigger problems than tznius too, but… Read more »

    To # 40
    Guest
    To # 40

    YOU ARE SO RIGHT.

    Gurary runs a private school for people who dont care about the fact that the rebbe opened BAIS RIVKAH AND put his name on and it is under Machne and Merkas.

    Muti opened his school after GIMEL TAMUZ as nobody would dare open another girls school while the rebbe was living.

    Muti take your chumros to Gezzaland and maybe not be so cruel with tution and milking parents for everything they got,

    No issue with gurary it's his school but...
    Guest
    No issue with gurary it's his school but...

    He’s a fanatic but it’s his school. All I think is that maybe turning away Jewish children from his school based on the length of the mother’s shaitel might be moneiah bar מונע בר which alter rebbe writes in Tanya the harshness of this sin. Gurary can do more for the community then creating divisions and hatred and jealousy not to mention turning away little girls from a Jewish education just because the mother wears a little b”h shaitel. This further pushes away the company b”h of moshiach. Every time his school makes a Charidy fundraiser I tell the one… Read more »

    90 comments - now mine
    Guest
    90 comments - now mine

    Dear Mrs. Waldman, I began reading your letter with great interest, as I too questioned Rabbi Gurary’s new policies. I must thank you since the responses to your letter clarified everything. Now I understand WHY Rabbi Gurary instituted these policies. Like most of the previous 90 posters, I too see a major problem in CH & it’s getting worse. I see women with sheitels to the waist (if they bother to wear one), almost meeting their skirt lengths. I see girls older than 3, 9 and 12 in short socks, cap sleeves & leggings. Everyone (or so it seems) has… Read more »

    LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT
    Guest
    LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT

    Waldman doesn’t question Gurary’s right to make any rules he wants for his school. Nor does she question anyone’s freedom to send or not send children to the school. So let’s put that to rest: he has a right to impose whatever rules he wants onthe school, and no one is forced to go to that school. What Waldman says is this: Aidelkeit and kedusha are the core of our living. But Gurary’s – and others’ – definition of aidelkeit and kedusha as being little girls legs exposure is simply a wrong definition. She pointgs out that ‘aidelkeit’ is dignity… Read more »

    to #12
    Guest
    to #12

    you respect Chaya Sara Waldman for signing her name?? there is no Chaya Sara Waldman. its a fake name, obviously. when you criticize someone publicly like this it should be IMPERATIVE to sign a real name.

    Mother
    Guest
    Mother

    Thank you Rabbi Gourarie !

    Pretty sad
    Guest
    Pretty sad

    Collive will warm their hands on any controversy. It was a private letter to parents body, all this media outrage is for views / clicks, nothing more.
    It took two full days to take down stupid Mendy Pellin video, because who would in their right mind refuse the enormous traffic it generates?
    When Rabbonim warned bout news sites, we all assumed they just want silence. But what is really true is that it’s a media business, and it has very logical rules, where traffic is a king and [manufactured] controversy is a king of traffic. Same as MSM.

    Is THIS okay???
    Guest
    Is THIS okay???

    He keeps a tape measure to inspect if the skirt is mid-calf. Is THAT okay???

    He feels the shoulders if they are padded when deciding sheitel is past shoulders. Is THAT okay???

    e looks up and down the woman, examinimg her if there is anything to see. Is THAT okay????

    Advice to all
    Guest
    Advice to all

    This is not an argument that there is a real winner
    From experience with litvishe and satmar and our youth
    Before yo come out with any fatwa dcree make sure its 1000% according to ש’ע
    Our children are not idiots they will grow up and they will scream מהיכן דנתוני show me where it says in ש’ע
    And
    If you can’t show them then you have blood on your hands

    יישר כח הרב גורארי
    Guest
    יישר כח הרב גורארי

    שמעתי מא החסידים שהרבי מבעלז זצ”ל היה אומר ש”על צניעות צריך לצאת בחירוף נפש”.

    אכן חוצפה מהרב גורארי לצאת בכזו הצהרה..
    אולם חוצפה גדולה יותר היא לצאת נגד הרב גורארי..

    מכל התגובות הבנתי שאמנם אש אחזה בעצים והוויכוח רק איך לכבותה ..
    אני מוכן לשמע מכל א על עיצה טובה ומועילה יותר.
    לעת עתה כל הזועקים היום היו דוממים בעת האחרונה…
    יישר כח הרב גורארי.

    FINALLY!!!
    Guest
    FINALLY!!!

    YES YES YES! As a Bnos Menachem graduate I came say that we had so many feelings surrounding this obsession with the details of how we dressed. We felt so neglected in other ways- emotionally, psychologically, mentally- but that was never a priority for the “esteemed holy hanhallah” of Bnos Menachem.

    marge
    Guest
    marge

    Expecting a dress code is usual practice in schools,businesses etc.I recall a very prominent public visitor to our London mosad.asking her aide to fetch a cardigan from her car when she saw and appreciated how it is correct to dress there.She was respectful and praised the school for maintaining high personal standards.

    to #156
    Guest
    to #156

    Your children go to school with my children.
    And our children are in a schoo where high schoolers learn to be very cagey about what t hey wear and where they wear it. Don’t think for a single minute that BM girls are any more tzniusdik than BR girls (and this goes for Bais Chaya Mushka also). The ‘imposed’ rules don’t enter their heart. Listen to your own daughters if you don’t believe me.

    mum
    Guest
    mum

    ok lady make sure you and your family keep everything in the Torah, ALL THE RULES OF THE SHULCHAN ARUCH and you wont need anymore letters
    by you writing this letter you have only done one thing you have taught your children to be disrespectful .

    Let's learn.
    Guest
    Let's learn.

    In response to this comment: “By wondering what the role is here for the husband who signs this letter – is it to inspect and approve his wife before she leaves the house? ” [When a woman] violates the faith of Moses or the Jewish faith, and similarly, one about whom is issued a scandalous report, her husband is not compelled to divorce her. If he desires [to remain married], he need not divorce her. Nevertheless, even when her husband does not divorce her, she is not entitled to a ketubah. [The rationale is that] a ketubah was ordained by… Read more »

    thank you
    Guest
    thank you

    יישר כח! ( how interesting that when you respond in such a dignified clear manner some respond that it’s shaming maybe because our frum culture is accustomed to having women bashed and humiliated in the name of tznius or whatever they call it. Time to examine our motives,

    anonymous
    Guest
    anonymous

    I am a woman who struggles with some of these rules, but B”H at least I know that I am wrong and I try to reach a higher level. The pritzus has gone so far, that we need to go in an opposite direction to bring it back. Thank you Rabbi Gurary for attempting to have the same standards as in a regular Beis Yaakov! On another note, this post is a disgusting attempt to shame someone publicly.. someone who is trying to bring kedusha back to our families. Nobody is perfect, so don’t let that lose the point of… Read more »

    Wondering
    Guest
    Wondering

    I am wondering if it would have been better to say the mothers are required to come to classes teaching kabolos ol, the Rebbe’s sichos to ladies, and the laws of tznius and then after coming to the classes a number of times, to require this dress code.. It seems that ladies who may be dressing in a manner not fit for a Bas Melech may not be exposed to learning the Torah that Hashem entrusted us with.

    marge
    Guest
    marge

    Where are the husbands in all this? How can they want the general public to view wives and daughters partially unclothed?

    Each challenge is important enough to be adressed on its own.
    Guest
    Each challenge is important enough to be adressed on its own.

    So many of you are saying what about this or what about that… Yes unfortunally there are other challenges we face as well. But that doesn’t negate the fact that each challenge needs to be adressed. Now one person got up ans adressed this challenge and hopefully it will affect the other challenges as well. But it all starts with one good step in the right direction.

    As principle of a girls school....
    Guest
    As principle of a girls school....

    is it rabbi gouraries place to tackle poverty in the neighborhood? excess spending at simchos? neighborhood politics? he is educating girls according to the shulchan aruch and when parents of those girls openly contradict what he is teaching he is letting parents know that it isnt acceptable. of course, “mrs waldman” is free to send her daughters to any other school whose principle isnt so demanding.

    We need more Motty Gurarys in this community
    Guest
    We need more Motty Gurarys in this community

    Crown Heights became a zoo

    It became the normal!??
    Guest
    It became the normal!??

    This what happens after 22 years with the rebbe hidden from are eyes, chabad women don’t need to be tznius anymore

    To 169
    Guest
    To 169

    The Jews wanted a king to like the other nations, now you want Chabad to be like belz. Please join belz, they are very tzanua.

    Thank you Rabbi Gurary!
    Guest
    Thank you Rabbi Gurary!

    Although making some of these changes such as shortening my Sheitel is extremely hard for me, I have to admit that I always felt it was wrong to wear such a loud Sheitel. However with time I became desensitized, and told myself that if everyone is doing it then it must be OK. I am sure you knew that there would be a backlash to your letter, and I’m sure you would rather have the principles sign it, but you had no choice. I respect you for doing this, and this strengthens my confidence that I have made the best… Read more »

    B"D should do the same
    Guest
    B"D should do the same

    The B”D of C”H should also put strong Tznius rules for the Shcunah (Just like Rabbi Ashkenazi is doing so strongly in Kfar Chabad, and) just like Rabbi Gurary did for his school… Tznius situation in CH is a total disaster…

    155 ???
    Guest
    155 ???

    Putting the holy moisad the friediker rebbe founded with greatvself sacrifice in the same sebtence as a non jewish school???

    Hashgacha protis
    Guest
    Hashgacha protis

    See today’s hayom yom. Only a true friend will point out your spiritual failings.

    This whole article is just politics propoganda
    Guest
    This whole article is just politics propoganda

    I really wonder what the writer’s real intentions are, probably politics, or some Machlokes they must have had with Motti Guerary, definitely not holy intentions, and shame on COL for fanning this silliness,

    You forgot one thing,  Ms Waldman
    Guest
    You forgot one thing, Ms Waldman

    You forgot to mention the REAL problem with the publishing Of his letter.

    You forgot to mention how tznius is used, BLATANTLY, as an EXCUSE to remove any persons they don’t like or feel is ‘gezhe’ enough for their ‘holy school’.

    You may be the most Tznius Chabadnik, but you can never escape the Bnos Menachem hipocracy of all things Ahavas Yisroel.

    One of the signs of MOSHIACH
    Guest
    One of the signs of MOSHIACH

    It is said that before Moshiach comes one of the signs will be “Chutzpah yasgey” Which means there will be abundant of chutzpah. Sadly this is clearly such a case. Women who call themselves Chabad chasidim refuse to dress accordingly and when a rabbi stands up for what’s right they have the chutzpah to complain. I repeating argument that men have no right telling women is also not a chasidishe frum argument. this is an argument used by liberal feminists who are pro choice i.e. pro abortion. In other words, this argument can be used by women to not obey… Read more »

    Comment
    Guest
    Comment

    הן נכון אשר (בניגוד ליוצאי אונגארן) בליובאוויטש מעולם לא הי’ “קאך” בצניעות ואיך הנשים לובשות וכו’ (אנשי אונגארן מדברים על לבושי הנשים בכל עת– החל מהאדמו”ר שלהם אפילו ביוהכ”פ בתפלת כל נדרי וכו’) מ”מ אולי לאחרונה בחב”ד צריכים קצת תיקון בתחום זה.

    אולי לא באופן שהרב גורארי’ עשה את זהץ

    אבל יש לעיין בכל זה

    ממנו יראו וכן יעשו
    Guest
    ממנו יראו וכן יעשו

    Time for Beis Rivka to set some standards too. I have the greatest respect for Rabbi Gurary for setting standards in HIS SCHOOL. What a chutzpah of this letter writer to bash him for holding onto values. The outrageous lack of tznius in crown heights needs to be dealt with!!!! Any person can decide what they want in their house. If they don’t want smoking they can say no smoking here. And the pritzus here is way more toxic than smoke!!!!!!! It stinks

    Queen Elizabeth
    Guest
    Queen Elizabeth

    Queen Elizabeth told her new grandaughter-in-law after she got married; you are now the wife of the man who will be king, the mother of another future king. You must dress the part.
    Are bnos yisroel any less?

    Interesting  and to #10
    Guest
    Interesting and to #10

    I do love this appropriate response to the letter and agree with it. However, at the end of the day, a private school is a private school, he can make the demands he wishes because of this.

    To number twn, he charges what he does so that the teachers can get paid! What do you think happened to bais rivka! Running a school costs an exhorbitant amount of money, which he fundraises for and pays for, but you NEED tuition money. School can’t be free loaded for the majority of families, its just not sustainable.

    What happened to we will accept the Torah
    Guest
    What happened to we will accept the Torah

    Is it no wonder that this generation has no respect. The mothers, the fathers, set the example for the kids. We are losing so many due to our lack of pride in our halachahs, minhagim and chumrahs. What would be so terrible if the mothers and fathers all took upon themselves to follow these new rules. Show respect for the administrators. Men should also be required to follow standards. Basically anything we as lubavitchers would be ashamed to go before the Rebbe for dollars is inappropiate. We all know what those standards are. We have become lax and lenient because… Read more »

    to #178 Marge
    Guest
    to #178 Marge

    Husbands haven’t had a say in what their wive’s wear for many years now. We are a walk-on-eggshell society. If a husband even hints that he is unhappy with what his wife is wearing he (and his wife) will end up in marriage counseling within a week. In all likeliness, the wife will fire back at him with a straw man argument like “you are not so frum either, because you didn’t go to shul for shacharis etc.” And if you think that father’s have a say in what their daughter’s wear… well let’s just say LOL. To answer your… Read more »

    to the OP
    Guest
    to the OP

    CH is not ment to be a Chabad house. That does not mean we don’t accept people etc. It means that our schools and institutions are creating the ones who will go out to make chabad houses. Obviously, we live in a time we’re we need to “act” in a chabad house style… But that does not mean we are free to behave like the ones who we are supposed to be bringing closer. I don’t necessarily agree with the specifics of Rabbi Gurary’srules but he has the absolute right and obligation to hold anyone who can have any affect… Read more »

    The Responses make the Writer's Point.
    Guest
    The Responses make the Writer's Point.

    Having read the responses to this letter, I find it intriguing that no one has meaningfully commented on the many, and significant, issues raised. It appears that for all its declarations of piety, the community focuses only on the external and ignores matters of great importance e.g. child abuse in all its forms, disparaging members of the community (in front of the children you are so intent on educating properly!) and so on. Your responses suggest you are more interested in band-aids (i.e., covering elbows and knees) than dealing with actual issues. Shame on you!

    Wow
    Guest
    Wow

    Things sure have changed! 20 years ago those standards were a given. AND the idea that men (rabbonim) should be able to ductate how women behave with their bodies was standard too! I agree with letter writer, but maybe she should consider whether maybe it’s orthodox Judaism she takes issue with rather than just R. G.

    To #9
    Guest
    To #9

    Well said
    Great great Post
    BRAVO!!
    THANKS!!

    To the author
    Guest
    To the author

    Thank you for echoing what so many of us woman and parents have been feeling.

    About Rabbi Gurary
    Guest
    About Rabbi Gurary

    It is his school and he can run it anyway he likes! In my opinion I think this Rabbi is very brave!
    If you don’t like the way he runs it don’t have your daughter attend his school but if I had a daughter i would be proud to have her recived her education at his school. I like when people take a stand and this is what this Rabbi is doing.
    BTW I’am not from Crown Heights.

    Mesivtas
    Guest
    Mesivtas

    I don’t understand, how come throughout the United States and Canada the high schools are allowed to be as picky as they would like, and nobody shouts nobody yells everybody just follows the rule. The tuition rates are astronomical and nobody cares, I think that Rabbi Gurary should have planned it a bit more with packed but at the end of the day these are the rules and the parents need to adhere to them if they want their child in that school.

    More shocking than lack of understanding
    Guest
    More shocking than lack of understanding

    Way more shocking is this letter writer’s blatant disrespect for Halacha. Shocking indeed that such trash can be posted here

    if im not mistaken #183
    Guest
    if im not mistaken #183

    Im not sure where I read this..maybe someone knows.. The Rebbe once said that we have what to learn from Beis Yaakov from their tznius

    Wow!!
    Guest
    Wow!!

    So so beautiful that all the comments here are against this woman! How beautiful Chabad is! We know what’s right….Majority of the 178 comments are towards rabbi Gaurary! Ashreinu !

    Her point?
    Guest
    Her point?

    I think the author is saying that the problem with the principal enforcing a standard of tznius is that tznius implies inwardness and when tznius dress codes are enforced it sort of negates the inwardness a woman should feel. Someone can force someone to do something but when the force is taken away, the thing that was enforced, such as dress, might be rebelled against because it wasn’t absorbed b’pnimius. The Rebbe said that everyone can increase in their levels of tznius. Perhaps some women don’t understand why denim or long shaitels might be considered against standards. The principal might… Read more »

    GREAT PR FOR BNOS MENACHEM
    Guest
    GREAT PR FOR BNOS MENACHEM

    Anyone who wants a school with Torah true values now knows they bnos menachem is the place to go. Great job letter writer. By exposing your own distorted views you help intelligent people realize how important a good school like bnos menachem is– to protect their children from influences such as yours

    to  those who said  not proper for man to tell woman how to dress
    Guest
    to those who said not proper for man to tell woman how to dress

    So who wrote “Beautiful Within” Who wrote “modesty, an adornment for life” who wrote “glory of the kings daughter”.
    When I, a woman, have doubts about clothes I want to buy, I describe them to a rav, not a woman, and I get a PSAK, not a personal feeling.

    Priorities
    Guest
    Priorities

    Of course a private school, especially a religious school, has every right to set standards for the dress and conduct of its students, and to encourage the parents to support those standards at home. And I have long wondered how other frum communities are looking at the community here, which is supposedly a chassidishe neighborhood, and what impression they are forming of Chabad as a result. But this article makes some very good points about where our priorities ultimately should be. Should Crown Heights be known as a place where you can’t leave the house without someone remarking on the… Read more »

    hah
    Guest
    hah

    u said there is a problem with lohson hara…well everyone here is just adding to it

    Anonymous
    Guest
    Anonymous

    It is honestly sad to see that while each comment is trying to stand up for one side, in the process they are hurting the other side. I feel that yes, tzniout is important but at the same time every challenge and issue has to be approached in the right fashion. As the teenagers who are being told to wear tights they probably don’t appreciate the judgment and strict rules coming from their rabbi and of course as the rabbi he probably has good intentions but when it comes to solving a problem at the end of the day the… Read more »

    Best defence is offence?
    Guest
    Best defence is offence?

    You expect a school to address all community issues?
    They’re trying to enforce basic rules for the parent body.
    So you attack them with all community issues?
    Because? You’re offended?
    Maybe take an objective look within and at yourself

    Rabbi Winer's sefer on tznius
    Guest
    Rabbi Winer's sefer on tznius

    I heard that the rebbe was rushing rabbi winer to publish his sefer on tznius, and using the words יפה שעה אחת קודם meaning: the earlier the better.

    Tone of Letter Disrespectful
    Guest
    Tone of Letter Disrespectful

    You are welcome to disagree with the rules… but this letter is over the top and totally off-the-mark. Write a nicer response and we’ll talk.

    Kabel Es Haemes mimi sheamro
    Guest
    Kabel Es Haemes mimi sheamro

    Even if you don’t agree with who the messenger is accept the message.

    I wish Beis,Rivkah will do the,same!!!
    Guest
    I wish Beis,Rivkah will do the,same!!!

    It’s a disaster there!!! Maby they should start with wearing a sheitel and not walk like in the beach!

    An Understanding Approach
    Guest
    An Understanding Approach

    His harsh approach is what got my daughter kicked out of his school after having been there for over 10 years. Instead of treating her kindly to find the root of her problems, he blamed it all on tznius and that was the end of her Jewish education. Today she is totally OTD and hates Yiddishkeit with a passion. I am not saying that she is NOT at fault but they could have dealt with her differently. In this case you cannot blame the mother, as I am a proud chassidishe woman who is very tznius.

    Dear Author
    Guest
    Dear Author

    If you were told that women have rights and voice in judaism – then you are misinformed. The reality is- women do not have the same rights as men do in Orthodox Judaism. Women supposed to follow rulings of rabbis and male community leaders. Their husbands have the last say in most matters pertaining to wives. What we see in the streets of CH is a rebellion, a result of men ruling women, a result of obsession with women’s body (as you stated). I suggest that instead of wasting your life and energy, find another branch of Judaism or at… Read more »

    שכונת המלך
    Guest
    שכונת המלך

    הרבי אמר כמה וכמה פעמים שהצניעות של נשות קראון הייסט משפיעה על כל העולם ועל בגשמיות בפשטות! אם כל מי שבעד כותב המכתב הנ”ל יש לו בעיה עם ההלכה לא עם הרב גורארי, יש לו בעיה עם הקב”ה, יש לו בעיה שלא מסוגל לראות שמישהו מציליח, מישהו שאומר את האמת בפנים! מישהו שאיכפת לו! מתי תתעוררו כשהילדים שלכם יתחברו עם ההיפיס שמסתובבים בשכונה, ממש שועלים ילכו בו!!!!! בושה לכותב השורות וישר כח עצום לרב גורארי שהעלה נושא כאוב והכרחי זה על גבי האתר! אם אינכם מסכימים איתו מה מעשיכם בקראון הייס לכו ל לשכונות הפתוחות שאין מימנהיג שאין מי שיעיר… Read more »

    Lol how the mighty have fallen
    Guest
    Lol how the mighty have fallen

    I showed the dress code to my conservadox friends and they didn’t see the outrage! When I became frum 15 years ago I was told that leggings were forbidden only because it might cause one to wear a shorter skirt or go without socks, just an extra fence which was proven to happen. The crazy thing those that once taught me about tznius no longer adhere to it. I wish shluchas also had this dress code, not one shlucha in my area wears stockings, all ear open toe shoes, leggings and no socks, always brightly manicured and super long shaitles.… Read more »

    Tznius is the foundation.
    Guest
    Tznius is the foundation.

    I’m sure that the principals wrote the letter, just signed by Rabbi Gurary. Tznius is the foundation of our observance. It effects are children as well, maybe if we start with that everything else will improve as well!

    Agree with 9
    Guest
    Agree with 9

    This article is completely over exaggerated, and totally inappropriate. Halacha is Halacha, and I haven’t yet heard of a Moses who came and told us all that it changed. Publicizing such an article is utterly disgusting, and quite unbelievable, as who can give himself the right say all the things written here? Who can allow himself to take the Rebbe’s words, and translate into hetairim and leniencies the Rebbe never spoke of? In this article, you write about the wrong of judging others. What exactly has been accomplished through the publication of your letter if not that?? I’m in complete… Read more »

    To Trim a Beard
    Guest
    To Trim a Beard

    Is an ISUR MIN HATORAH and Tzinis is only Darabonim…

    I hope MUTTY WILL THROW OUT EVERY FATHER WHO TRIMES HIS BEARD WHO ACCORDING TO THE TZEMACH TZEDEK IS A DORAIISAH

    the contract you will never see
    Guest
    the contract you will never see

    imagine a school that required parents to sign they won’t have sinas chinam or say loshon hora or do other things against bein adam l’chavero

    Ten Yad Hachnosas Kallah
    Guest
    Ten Yad Hachnosas Kallah

    Thank you Rabbi Gurary for taking a stance on this vital – I cant agree with you more!

    Since I was a recipient of the great Chesed of Ten Yad – hachnasas kallah, I feel that I must take a stand when your ahavas yisroel is being publicly questioned and thank you you publicly for all that your organization has done for me when I got married.

    This reminds me of Pinchas who was able to be the ultimate kanoye, davke because of his great ahavas yisroel.

    Mrs Waldman and COL, you both owe the Guraries a public apology

    Thank you!
    Guest
    Thank you!

    Thank you for signing your name to your letter. I love your guts, and honesty and finally someone who will tell it like it is! Don’t be afraid to say what you feel. Beis Rivkah is not the end all. Be mindful, be yourselves, teach your daughters to stand up for basic human rights, while respecting themselves. Because I promise you, BR will not teach them that. Light colored nail polish, short sheitels and submissive behaviors, will not teach them that. YOU will, as her mother and role model. Sing it woman!

    Can I EXPLAIN why it is IMPORTANT that LITTLE GIRLS dress TZNIUSLY?
    Guest
    Can I EXPLAIN why it is IMPORTANT that LITTLE GIRLS dress TZNIUSLY?

    If they’re taught to be tznius from the age of 5 eg. “sit tzniusly. cover your knees.” Then when they grow older they’ll naturally feel it is important. If you only start telling them to be tznius when they’re 10/12 they won’t necessarily feel it and keep to it.

    out of towner
    Guest
    out of towner

    I agree with Rabbi Gurary in making a parent consent letter to up the ante in the tznius standards of CH. BUT I dont agree with all of the conditions. Its one thing to ask parents to sign that they will follow HALACHA – that is what is expected of every Jew, and its not a matter of “personal preference”. Its a completely separate issue to ask women to take on extras. As much as they are Minhag HaMakom and community standards, and these need help too, nail polish and denim and sheitel lengths are not HALACHA, and one cannot… Read more »

    THANK YOU RABBI GURARAY FOR DOING SOMETHING ABOUT TZNIUS IN CROWN HEIGHTS .TO ALL THOSE WHO DISAGREE I THINK ITS TIME CROWN HEIGHTS BECOMES LUBAVITCH AGAIN THANK YOU RABBI GURARY...
    Guest
    THANK YOU RABBI GURARAY FOR DOING SOMETHING ABOUT TZNIUS IN CROWN HEIGHTS .TO ALL THOSE WHO DISAGREE I THINK ITS TIME CROWN HEIGHTS BECOMES LUBAVITCH AGAIN THANK YOU RABBI GURARY...
    Very Funny!
    Guest
    Very Funny!

    I find it very funny that “everyone” knows who’s school Bnos Menachem is (Its Mutty Guray’s).

    However, stop anyone in the street and ask “Who’s school is Bais Rivkah? Who is in charge and responsible”? No one will have a clue what to answer!!

    I just find this hilarious!

    Addendum to #227
    Guest
    Addendum to #227

    I’d like to add, that I am a religious, married, mother of 3, who has succeed in life both educationally and professionally, not because of, but rather in spite of BR. As a parent, you need to decide what you feel is important for your daughter. Is it a skirt that covers the knee when she is sitting? Or is it a Masters degree in Social Work? Where is her contribution to society most profound? BR only (literally) stood in the way of my higher education, because of the length of my socks. I’ll repeat, they would not release my… Read more »

    this is nuts
    Guest
    this is nuts

    its so much fun to read the comments #nomorenetflix #colliveentertainment

    Finally!
    Guest
    Finally!

    Finally someone does something about the tznius issue in crown heights and everyone bashes him! As a private school he can make up any rules he wants! You don’t have to send your children there but if you do keep the rules! Why should I have to send my kids to schools with lower standards? We have enough schools with no standards at all in crown heights! Thank you Motty Guary!

    WOW
    Guest
    WOW

    What a response! We should have CNN come in and stage a protest in front of the authors house as well as the school. That way we cover both sides.

    And men don't count??
    Guest
    And men don't count??

    What about the men? Why aren’t they addressed??
    Shaved beards, short Kapotas, flip flops, shorts….

    Some thought s
    Guest
    Some thought s

    What about the fathers dressing modestly? Why only mothers? Is it any different when the mens shirts are umbuttoned way to low, their pants are almost as tight as leggings? Their shirts as tight as a bathing suit? A school is allowed and should set standards for their school. If a private school wants to attract a certain crowd then they have all rights to. However, womans dress is not the only modest issue effecting our community. Mens dress has an effect on us as well. Little girls dress is not the only problem. Little boys dress is alsp having… Read more »

    Cannot believe this is posted
    Guest
    Cannot believe this is posted

    What ever happened to Chinuch?
    Did we not just celebrate the holiday of children, our guarantors?
    Did we not just rejoice in the Torah, Halacha and Chassidus that was given to us to be up-kept by our children?

    If we cannot keep our traditions and pure Halacha alive ourselves, how can we ask of our children to?

    How can we expect our children to love these Halachos and see the beauty of what we are meant to do, if we go about speaking negatively about them and about those who observe and ask others to observe them?

    Just some food for thought.

    Why blame him
    Guest
    Why blame him

    I bet there were rabbanim involved in this. I’m unsure if I should say I hope so.

    Why make the daughter suffer
    Guest
    Why make the daughter suffer

    Why should the daughter of such a mother get any less of a chinuch?

    To 227
    Guest
    To 227

    the article is talking about בנות מנחם

    To COL
    Guest
    To COL

    Please, please remove this article.
    It’s bringing lots of unnecessary, and even rude responses.
    And, the article itself is plain Halbonas Penei Chaveiro Borabim. You don’t have to look to hard to notice that.
    There are apologies owed here, and I think the Halacha is that they must be done barabim just as the Halbona was.

    Shame on all who agree with this article.

    Shame on those who are okay with the fact that children of the Rebbe have stooped this low.

    Please explain
    Guest
    Please explain

    What in the world is wrong with denim???Im serious.where and how does tznius get attached to denim-how did this even become a tznius issue???help me understand this phenomenom.

    BE REAL!!
    Guest
    BE REAL!!

    DONT OVEREACCT THEY ARE STRANGE RULES…..BUT SCOOL RULES!!!!!!!!!!

    I wish
    Guest
    I wish

    My girls had the opportunity to go to a school that would stand up for their values proudly like this one!! And yes, fathers should sign the letter because if their wives need help and encourage nteractive to adhere to tznius then they have an obligation to help people them. Additionally Chabad is about spreading light, but that doesn’t mean accepting all behaviours – remember the Rebbe said to bring ppl up to our levels, not us down to theirs. Finally, the hayom yom the just today was to cherish rebuke as it puts you on a higher level! Thank… Read more »

    Big Idea
    Guest
    Big Idea

    sounds right out of feminist handbook. maybe Ms. Waldman can organize a Women’s march or something, reading the comments it seems like there’d be a lot of participants!

    Comment #25
    Guest
    Comment #25

    Yes. Most comments here are just making noise, but Yu have actually heard the writer.

    stupidity
    Guest
    stupidity

    I am a grown woman with grown and married children and grandchildren. I am done with the school system. So I want you to understand where I am at in life. When I hear the “rules” this man makes or any one runnings schools it gives me the urge to flip my wig and put on a pair of pants. If this type of “rules” makes me get that type of reaction, how much more so will a teenager feel? and mind you I dress tznius. if you hold something too tight the instinct is to struggle free. I understand… Read more »

    shtech
    Guest
    shtech

    maybe if you keep these halachos of tzinus properly we wouldn’t see all those problems you mentioned
    no child will throw of their yiddishkeit if we were to show them how special it is
    and by you writing this letter it shows that you are embarrassed about your tzinus because you feel attacked and therefore wrote this attack.

    What goes round comes round
    Guest
    What goes round comes round

    I guess Mrs “Waldman” is most definitely feeling a bit of what she attempted to make Rabbi Gourarie experience . . .
    a sense of shame, embarrassment, regret??
    Well it appears that 85% of the readers are totally against her post, with its content of pure chutzpa
    What goes round comes round, she’s getting a taste of her own medicine!
    like one of the comments said, if even 5 women get to change their views on tznious, it’ll all have been worth it
    Still, how sad, that we have been reduced this low:(

    "ONE WHO EMBARRASSES HAS NO PLACE IN OLEM HABA"
    Guest
    "ONE WHO EMBARRASSES HAS NO PLACE IN OLEM HABA"

    I understand…. but it should not be posted on COL. image you saw a letter on COL that said:
    Dear ___________,
    You this and that and…….

    Also its school rules.

    to number 229
    Guest
    to number 229

    get a life!!!

    thank you
    Guest
    thank you

    Thank you of being so brave and strong and looking at the pnimiut. This is a wake up call to everyone!

    Just a thought
    Guest
    Just a thought

    To all those saying “it’s his school, he can do what he wants”, “don’t send your child there if you don’t like the rules” etc. it’s very hard to switch a child from one school to another when they have been attending the school for so long…

    Clarification by the Author
    Guest
    Clarification by the Author

    First, I’d like to apologize to Rabbi Gurary for addressing this op-ed to him. It was in response to his letter with new rules for the school which he sent out. Second, most of these comments seemed to have completely missed my point. It has nothing to do with the right of a school to make rules. Rabbi Gurary has every right to make any rule he pleases for his school. To me, tznius is core to my life. But in addition to how I dress, I know there’s much more to being a tznius person. Third, there is something… Read more »

    i love this article
    Guest
    i love this article

    the author put up valid points.
    I especially liked the analogy of poverty.More dreadful than red nail polish, is the silent serpent of poverty that poisons the happiness of young families who can barely make ends meet (who attend the extravagant functions of the “role models” of our neighborhood).

    WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS
    Guest
    WHO DOES HE THINK HE IS

    Im sorry but i have to say that one person cant think that there gonna change the future of crown heights standards. By being so strict on th girls in school and their parents it results in many more people going the opposite way instead of being more chassidishe. It just makes u distgusted when one person thinks he can take over your life and make you wear midcalf skirts. Additionally, tznuis is not the only focus in life their are many other things to work on before this. I hope we can see a change for the better and… Read more »

    Loved
    Guest
    Loved

    I think you’re awesome

    kol hakoved rabbi gurarie !!!!
    Guest
    kol hakoved rabbi gurarie !!!!

    well written so true !!!!!

    Why mix problems
    What you wrote are problems, but so is tznius!!!
    Why mix kasha mit borscht???

    If bullying, alcohol, lashon hara, etc are problems you see, address them and do something about them!

    Doesn’t negate what rabbi gurary is doing in his school. Kudos to someone that is setting a standard in tznius (and I don’t send to bnos menachem)

    To everyone!
    Guest
    To everyone!

    No uterus, no opinion!!!

    Sincerely,
    Concerned Bas Yisroel

    Chabad is warm and welcoming
    Guest
    Chabad is warm and welcoming

    But too much Anash in one place, there is always too much free time to increment social rules… to a point they abide to radical views of the world and become very very stubborn and stuck up.
    “We got to a tznius all-time low, u know, i know it, common face the truth”.
    Pfff… b*plz. Whoever supports this rabbi should look into other chassidic groups. Arois fun lubavitch and save us the chilul hashem.

    Just saying
    Guest
    Just saying

    The very strong, massive, mind blowing responses to this whole tznious thing, is total proof in itself of just how many people feel and are SO sick and tired concerning this whole topic! WHAT a reaction! almost unique on COL! And just by the way on the subject of leggings . . c’mon, its not just leggings! lets face it . . It starts of first with leggings and socks, then moves slowly towards leggings without socks, continuing to the actual length of the leggings slowly getting shorter, with time, thus slowly exposing more and more leg, and finally shortening… Read more »

    Problem
    Guest
    Problem

    II’m sorry you have to bash halacha because of your own sensitivities and challenges.

    Ker a velt
    Guest
    Ker a velt

    Dear Mrs waldman, If your so worried about bullying, drugs, loshon hora then YOU should start an anti bullying campaign, make a drug rehab center….. You see rabbi gurary works in a girls school there he deals with These problems you have a problem with alcohol call the yeshivas And don’t use that dumb librial argument what’s a man saying something about a woman – he works there!!! Or tznius is a private thing… It’s clearly not there clear halochos of how to dress, don’t use a liberal addittude and I keep halacha – wherever i see fit What your… Read more »

    You forgot one thing,  Ms Waldman
    Guest
    You forgot one thing, Ms Waldman

    You forgot to mention the REAL problem with the publishing Of his letter.

    You forgot to mention how tznius is used, BLATANTLY, as an EXCUSE to remove any persons they don’t like or feel is ‘gezhe’ enough for their ‘holy school’.

    You may be the most Tznius Chabadnik, but you can never escape the Bnos Menachem hipocracy of all things Ahavas Yisroel.

    Midcalf skirts loveeeee sooo soo soo stylish!! With the יחי pins! Mwa perfect
    Guest
    Midcalf skirts loveeeee sooo soo soo stylish!! With the יחי pins! Mwa perfect

    The chinuch chassiddishkeit and aidelkeit of future ch is crucial and rabbi gurray is trying to help.Thats it! Mwa!

    About comments teaching little girls
    Guest
    About comments teaching little girls

    Should five year olds running, playing, jumping, swinging climbing have to be conscious about covering “their”, oh whoops, sorry, “hers”arms and legs? Dressing little girls provocatively on the other hand is also wrong and leggings can be more modest than tight little miniskirts.

    Be aware -- Your defense mode is a cover for guilt
    Guest
    Be aware -- Your defense mode is a cover for guilt

    Let’s step back and examine this letter’s overall mood. It reminds me of when a student is confronted with some misdemeanor. Trapped, s/he usually calls out all the other misdemeanors and flaws in the system as a way to deflect from his/her own guilt. That’s what happened here. Did this purported ‘Waldman’ even shed one tear at the dismal, horrifying state of tznius in our community?The writer is clearly defensive about her own standards. Of course we’d love to nurture everyone into loving tznius. How about, instead of hiding the issue behind a comprehensive list of crimes, Ms.Waldman suggests welcoming… Read more »

    The boys/men
    Guest
    The boys/men

    Where are the rules for the boys schools?
    Beards,tzitzis,yarmulka colors
    Men are also guilty!

    Yes
    Guest
    Yes

    I agree with 227
    Women need to be educated, empowered and strong.
    Modesty is important but let’s not get carried away.
    One can be modestly dressed and messed in the head.
    Women should be centered ,balanced and proud of who they are.Inside and out.

    Well said
    Guest
    Well said

    Well said Chaya Sara Waldman, you are to be applauded to speak out about this nonsence. How dare Rabbi Gurary show such disrespect to women. This is nothing more than controlling, bullying and snooping. Shame on him. I am sure these mothers normally dress very nicely.To attach conditions even down to nail varnish is a sign of very unhealthy power over women, using orthodoxy to do it.

    I'm so sorry, Rabbi Gurary!
    Guest
    I'm so sorry, Rabbi Gurary!

    Sorry you have to go through this now. Thanks for everything, and may you and your family know only health, nachas, and bracha always!!

    to number 15
    Guest
    to number 15

    very true. i agree with you

    Fathers?
    Guest
    Fathers?

    Many of the requirements for mothers (although all appropriate and supported by poskim) are not clear halachic imperatives. But cutting the beard is a clear Torah prohibition according to or Rebbe the Tzemach Tzedek and many other poskim. Cutting the beard is as visible and obvious a rebellion against halacha and Lubavitch as lack of Tznius in women. If so, will Bnos Menachem expand its policy to require that fathers maintain full beards?

    Rabbis answer questions
    Guest
    Rabbis answer questions

    I for one send a picture via WhatsApp to a rav who is a friend of the family. Many times i snap it while in the dressing room before i make the purchase. He always responds right away. Im sure rabbi gurary would agree to have us send him pics and he can let us know BEFORE we walk out and cause a chilul witj oir tight clothing

    At least it's important to him
    Guest
    At least it's important to him

    In lamplighters there is no dress code ( that’s followed anyway) and in order for our children to continue our beautiful heritage there needs to be standards. Parents and students coming dressed however they want will surely not lead to preserving our identity

    Somewhat on topic of this oh, so heated discussion
    Guest
    Somewhat on topic of this oh, so heated discussion

    may i ask why Crown Heights, the center of Chabad (aren’t we meant to be the role models of the other chassidim and sects of jews?) is selling dresses that are MEANT to not cover the knee? have yalls seen memomaxis advertisement video on youtube (oysh, chas vshalom, youtube! the y word, of course) Isn’t Crown Heights the place where out of towners come to shop for clothing, because nothing is tznius at the mall? Rabbi Gorari, kol hakavod. maybe your letter will be the beginning of the painful recovery of Crown Heights. Maybe by the time im a grandma,… Read more »

    Go Rabbi Gurary
    Guest
    Go Rabbi Gurary

    I stand with you.
    Y. E

    Thank you Rabbi Motty Gurary
    Guest
    Thank you Rabbi Motty Gurary

    Finally someone’s standing up for the Rebbe’s words.
    Ignore the haters. Your a true shliach

    224.
    Guest
    224.

    Tznius is mideoiraiso
    ולא יראה בך ערות דבר.

    Oy!
    Guest
    Oy!

    Chassidishe yiddishe chinch is most important in a time of of golus like we are in. OY Vey Hashem help US!

    Chaya Sara Waldman is a farce for 3 (or more) reasons
    Guest
    Chaya Sara Waldman is a farce for 3 (or more) reasons

    1. A quick search online (Tzachlist.com, Google) shows that’s a fake name. For all you know this is a pro-eruv, chabad-lite sham trying to take a cheap shot anonymously for someone who is courageously trying to do what Hashem wants. 2. She actually doesn’t give a hoot about bullying or Bar Mitzvahs (or any the other values she pretends to care about). These issues were not important enough for her to write an open letter on COL until she needed to “use” these issues to put down the topic that isn’t so “convenient” for her. 3. She has no clue… Read more »

    Let's get real here
    Guest
    Let's get real here

    Dear Bnos parents,
    Practically speaking,are we cutting our wigs ?
    Are we buying mid calve skirts?The answer is NO.
    Make rules that are able to be kept.
    Fanaticism doesn’t work .
    Doesn’t sound like he thought this through very much.
    Sounds like a list written quite impulsively.

    THANK YOU RABBI GURARY!!!!!!!
    Guest
    THANK YOU RABBI GURARY!!!!!!!

    We need to be Mehadrin Min Hamehadrin min Hamehadrin so that our children should be Mehadrin Min Mehadrin.

    The standards are only getting lower with every passing year.. thank Heavens someone is standing up and doing something!!

    We need more like him!!!

    Name is irrelevant
    Guest
    Name is irrelevant

    She gets her point acroas very well.
    Everyone knows in this community noone can sign their name anywhere without having negative ramifications.
    I find the fact that one can’t be authentic sadder than a woman sporting colored polish.

    THANK YOU SARA
    Guest
    THANK YOU SARA

    Great job for and educated, smart and chassidseh person who REALLY understand Chinuch today!

    pathetic that she had to use a pseudonym!!
    Guest
    pathetic that she had to use a pseudonym!!

    Pretending to be so brave and signing her name… what a cowardly act. Makes this letter seem all the more foolish.

    Thank You
    Guest
    Thank You

    What a respectful, well-written, accurate letter…points made even stronger by putting your name on it. Kudos.

    Learn Halacha
    Guest
    Learn Halacha

    אין שום מקור לגדר של “עד הכתפיים”. זאת המצאה של מאן דהו. והנה יש שהביאו ראיה שסתירת שיער היא פריצות, שבסוטה מצינו שהכהן סותר קלעי שערה, ופירש רש”י (סוטה ח.) “סותר קלעי שערה, מרבה בגילויה שסותר קליעתה”, עכ”ל. והיינו שסתירת קלעי שערה הוא הדגשת הגילוי ביותר, והדגשה זו היא פריצות. אולם אין זו ראיה כלל, כי שם מוכח רק שסתירת קלעי השיער הוא הדגשת הגילוי, אבל לא מבואר שם ענין אריכות השיער, והאם יש הבדל בין שיער סתור ארוך לקצר, וכמה הוא שיעור האורך המותר. וא”כ, מנלן לחלק בין פאה ארוכה לקצרה, כשכל אופן היא פרועת ראש ואין שערותיה קלועות.… Read more »

    CH mothers have so much on their plate
    Guest
    CH mothers have so much on their plate

    We need to show how much we appreciate mothers for what they do for their families. They raise large families, they take care of the house, they take care of the husband. Leave these women alone. Don’t demand more and more of them. Women have enough rules to deal with in life. Lets us thank all the mothers, love and respect them!

    to 283, lets get real
    Guest
    to 283, lets get real

    I am a Bnos Menachem Parent.

    Yes I will cut my sheitel and wear mid-calf skirts.

    I was furious when I first read this letter.. took some time for me to come around… now I see so clearly why this is precisely what is needed now and I am beyond grateful that these are the standards in my daughters school…even if it will be mesiras nefesh and realllllllly hard for me to cut my sheitel 🙁

    These rules can easily be kept if you can take a moment to be open-minded, they are NOT so far-fetched…

    Thank you Rabbi Gurary
    Guest
    Thank you Rabbi Gurary

    Not just that he can speak about the dress code in his school ,but I wish all Rabonim all over the world would guide the Neshei and Bnos Chabad with clear rules about tznius of dress ,Sheitel’s etc.. That would be true Ahavas Yisroel

    "Miss Waldman"
    Guest
    "Miss Waldman"

    Wow. A new low. Masquerading behind a false name to attack Rabbi Gurary by his name?
    Low. Low. Low

    Thank you #276
    Guest
    Thank you #276

    That proves that when there are no guidelines and we just allow anything to go , all goes downhill from there. I’d rather my kids go to a school with frum guidelines and priorities so they go up actin. And looking like frum Jews. Proud of the beautiful heritage we have , as you said.

    Amerika iz nicht andersh
    Guest
    Amerika iz nicht andersh

    This whole letter is nisht geshtoigen und night gefloigen,,, PURE JEALOUSY……. RABBI MOTTY GOURARIE,,,, DID NOT BUILD THIS SCHOOL FOR PERSONAL KOVID OR ANY PERSONAL GAIN WHATSOEVER,,,,ONLY AND ONLY FOR ONE REASON ONLY BECAUSE HE CARES ABOUT THE LEVELS TO WHICH LUBAVITCH AS SUNK TO,,,,, HE IS NOT A BATLAN,,,,BUT A BUSINESSMAN THAT DOES A WORLD OF GOOD WHEREVER HE CAN,,,,,,IN WHATEVER FASHION HE COULD,,, I CAN PERSONALLY ATTEST TO ,TWO TIMES WHEN HE CAME TO ME TO ASK ME TO BE MESHTATIF IN HELPING TO YUNGELEIT TO PAY OFF THEIR DEBTS SO THEY WOULDN’T BE KICKED OUT OF THEIR… Read more »

    Kol Hakovod for setting standards
    Guest
    Kol Hakovod for setting standards

    Dear writer, You are clearly pained with a lot of issues you recognize are facing this community. Do something about one at least. That’s what Rabbi Gurary’s doing! Kol Hakovod to him. Interestingly enough, even the secular world has had standards to be a teacher. Although its about 100 years old, someone with values at that time had expectations of teachers. Here it is: Rules for Teachers – 1915 1. You will not marry during the term of your contract. 2. You are not to keep company with men. 3. You must be home between the hours of 8 PM… Read more »

    dear #10
    Guest
    dear #10

    don’t talk like that about someone you clearly don’t know, not everyone can handle such a full school like beis rivkah

    EDUCATION IS KEY!!
    Guest
    EDUCATION IS KEY!!

    What we need is ECUCATION!! Not just Halachos. Kabalas Ol is important, but girls need to be taught something deep that they’ll internalize. Like self respect and an awareness of Hashem. And tznius should be taught with love, not harshness. Every Jew has a soul, and the only reason why a Jew would sin is because he has a yetzer hara. His essence is inherently good, it’s eloikus. Please treat your fellow Jews with ahavas yisroel. There are a lot of bad things online, etc, and sometimes it is hard not to be affected. It is true that we should… Read more »