By: Anonymous
Here is the golden rule when it comes to marriage advice. There is no such thing as objective marriage advice. When someone is giving you a tip or advice, it comes from some experience, trauma, or mistake they made. It’s like a window into the advice-giver relationship.
Being recently married, I hear, “Oh, you haven’t reached the tough times yet.” And while I agree that relationships will always have ups and downs and need serious work and maintenance, please don’t prescribe your mistakes and failures to me.
I am referring to the writer of the recent op-ed titled “Are Divorce Rates on the Rise in the Frum World.”
I concur with your idea that many newlyweds don’t understand the full scope of what they are getting into. I highly agree the mechnachim and mashpiim and rabbonim need to make a much larger effort to teach and clarify what it means to be a spouse, to have a successful marriage from years earlier, and not have the first time you hear these ideas during chosson classes, after you are already engaged. Hopefully, this will filter out all getting married for the “wrong” reasons.
However, that is where you and I stop seeing eye to eye.
I see this idea of a “marriage counselor” more and more during the engagement period. I could not disagree with it more. Why fix something that isn’t broken? Why force a young couple into a robot relationship where this “one size fits all” advice is going to force a couple to make up for an argument the way the doctor ordered, and not through their unique way of communicating and understanding each other, that gets developed over time.
A marriage is two people coming together, and part of that coming together is working on and building their own physical and emotional language and problem-solving techniques. I can agree that there is basic general information that you must know about how men and women see the world differently, but each person and each relationship is unique. There is no one piece of advice, one way to end an argument, one way to apologize, or one way to make up.
Everyone figures that out within their own relationship based on their needs. And it’s always been that way. That’s how humans work. When you have 2 people committed to the marriage, that happens automatically. Aside from the fact that when you have a “prescription,” you start seeing symptoms everywhere. Non-issues that could be ignored, but the therapist said something that makes you believe “it could turn into a 3-headed dragon if you don’t deal with it now.”
Let’s talk divorce rates.
I don’t claim to know the frum Chabad community divorce rates, and I haven’t heard a number in a while to quote you. But I will just ask, are they really so much higher? Or do we just hear about them more? With social media and our unlimited access to phones and information, with people needlessly sharing private details of their lives, we are more aware than we used to be, but it doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening before.
I am not claiming that the divorce rate is still the same, but I do believe it is a little higher—not enough to warrant redeveloping the entire system to cope with an issue within a niche.
Bad news makes noise. You will always hear about the couple who got divorced over those who got married, especially when they divorced so soon. You will always remember that conversation at the Shabbos table where you heard that your friends, cousin’s brother is going through a rough patch, but never about the couples who aren’t.
Let’s not succumb to this trap of bad news that seems larger than it is. I agree that some need help that will relate to what you’re saying. But let’s not act like we need to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over with the shhidduch system. It’s not a modern innovation; it’s the way things have always been done, and like I said, if it isn’t broke, don’t fix it.
The fact is that the divorce rates have gone up – not just a bit, but a significant amount to realize that something needs to be addressed. HOWEVER, I don’t agree with the writer of the other article about the reason why. Most divorces are usually because of some sort of abuse or major personality issues (aka red flags) that people were not aware of before. Also, another reason, unfortunately, is unhealthy internet addictions – which is definitely something that should be brought to everyone’s awareness. Especially boys should be guided in how to deal with this challenge in their… Read more »
Listen to the podcast on meaningful ppl lately
https://guardyoureyes.com/
Some women sit all night on Instagram, Facebook, etc. Not specifically untznius stuff but certainly not helping if she’s ignoring her husband…
Let’s admit that addiction is much more common than we acknowledge and in this category, I include alcohol and drugs, eating disorders as well as internet addictions (including not only what people are watching but also their habitual use of the internet).
Lubavitch system and its married couples have a challenge never faced: A full generation of adults unable to see the rebbe of the type Lubavitch system considered its core foundation, coupled with the full generation of adults being and growing in the information explosion era. The notion of every couple having a third partner (god/rebbe) in the marriage is not the default or only dynamic. There’s a new notion of the couple marrying and staying married because they love each other, not because they have a shared primary objective (create a religious, chassidic family and children). A marriage based on… Read more »
It’s not just in Chabad 🙁
Love is a basic human emotion that has always been a major factor in Jewish marriage. The Tanach is full of stories of love in marriage, take Yahkov and Rachel for example, and the idea that romance is some sort of modern invention is a ridiculous secular idea. Perhaps the only difference In modern times is people think marriage is just about love, and ignore all the other factors that make a relationship work, like having mutual beliefs and goals and a stable financial situation. Love is good, but it’s not everything.
while love indeed is a basic human emotion, it has little representation in religious chassidic households, and by love I assume we’re referring to intense like and desire of the other’s mind body and spirit – personality – and not what they represent by roles or religion. the examples in tanach are the exception not the rule. mutual goals and beliefs are not only good but almost if not everything in chassidic marriage. love either exists evolves or not and is neither dealmaker or breaker. unfortunately.
In the case of marriage, it’s not fixing something that isn’t broken. You see, a man and a woman getting together for the rest of their life, is a very complex thing. Men and women are opposites in almost every way you can think of. Many people coming into marriage Could have a much easier and pleasant marriage, if they get advice before getting married. This that you say, one piece of advice doesn’t fit for everyone. Many good marriage therapist, have dealt with so many couples, and see the same things repeat themselves time and again. they know The… Read more »
With the idea “if it isnt broke dont fix it”. There is no need to fix something or take responsibility if everything is alright. It works for: if your feeling fine there is no need to go to the doctor kind of situation. But it doesnt work for situations where humanity is humanity and humanity has make numerous mistakes for years. So I’d rather play it safe and tell my child in advance then to wait for my child to face it and then it’s too late. In addition my child will tell me why didn’t I discuss that this… Read more »
Agree on everything
This response is validating to both divorced singles and married couples. Anyone who claims there are so many divorced in the community should conduct a study and present a side by side comparison of married vs divorced couples in the community,the difference will be staggering.
Your argument against marriage counseling is based on a misunderstanding of its role and benefits. You suggest that counseling imposes a rigid, “one size fits all” method on couples, but this is simply not accurate. Counselors don’t dictate solutions—they create a supportive environment where couples can discover and refine their own unique ways of communicating and resolving conflicts. You argue that marriage is about two people developing their own “physical and emotional language and problem-solving techniques” over time. While it’s true that every relationship is unique, this isn’t contradicted by, nor does it negate the value of professional guidance. Counselors… Read more »
You are right, people have always sought after third party advise, but the question is a therapist/marriage counselor the best person for this. Let’s not forget therapy is a business and cost a lot of money. Why should people waste all that money if they have no real issue in their marriage. Also, in general, therapy is designed to help people heal more than to give people practical advice. From my own experience in therapy, I can say they do very little in teaching people how to live a normal life and mostly just sit there and listened to what… Read more »
Thank you for writing this article!!
I recently bought myself 2 extra heavy feather pillows they help me shut out reality. I picture myself back in the 80 and 90s..
neither of the couple have what’s called a smartphone, cuz that has changed everything………
Having been divorced myself, and remarried for a 2nd time now, I couldn’t agree more, with every word said.
Once people start telling one side (ie the husband or wife) that the other side is mentally ill, it is a recipe for disaster
Nobody is perfect and these days everyone has ‘their things’ but when a ‘professional’ comes and says he/she is ‘sick’, it never helps anyone
The Rebbe wants us to find a way to make things work NOT look for reasons to thing things are impossible
…married to someone with untreated bona fide mental illness. Do that before you again say what you said today.
For shame! You don’t know how lucky you are, being so clueless and inexperienced with such a hell!
While mental illness in and of itself should not be used as an excuse to bash anyone, there are absolutely instances where a spouse has a legitimate mental illness and it needs to be addressed. Unfortunately I have been privy to seeing what it looks like when that ill person does not take responsibility and ownership for their mental illness and as a result, their life is completely unstable and unsafe, and for the healthy spouse, divorce is the only option. You absolutely cannot come in here and claim that mental illness can’t be cited as a valid reason –… Read more »
You criticized the previous writer’s suggestion, (that couples should have counseling etc, being that every counselor is giving advice based on their marriage experience), yet you did just that. So your advice is equally if no value – according to your own thesis. In addition, The reason why you are really off track, being that you are not aware that a professional therapist has their own training and worked out their own personal issues etc and should therefore not inject their personal marriage into the advice they are giving. And so it is , it should be, with a mashpia.… Read more »
Exactly what I was thinking. The person writing this clearly never went to a marriage counselor and is equating them with “friendly advice” and “marriage tips” one would get from their friends and family. That indeed is a window in their own experience. (And they evidently didn’t appreciate that sort of advice). But a trained therapist should create a safe space and container for the married couple to work things out in their unique way. Also I don’t like the argument “it’s not on the rise, we are just more aware of it ” nope nope nope. We hear it… Read more »
I think if people learned healthy forms of communication and that’s a lifelong skill it would be beneficial for life overall and very important to marriage. Thjs is a skill one can learn with a counselor or a therapist if needed. Additionally it would help in the dating process to prevent people from getting engaged ti the wrong one or worse.
No one should be allowed to get married Without reading AND owning this book.
Gottman is a wise marriage counselor. He has good values and practical tips to improve and save a Marriage.
When spouses are more married to their siblings, Parents, and friends, this is a recipe for disaster.
Marriage is between the husband and wife and siblings should not be mixing in!
Tell me you’ve never been to therapy without telling me you’ve never been to therapy..
Yes, it’s not really clear what the article’s author is trying to say. Do not push therapy on me? No one can push it on anyone, especially with $200 an hour price tag. The thing is, even just an *awareness* that you can benefit from a therapy puts you ahead of the curve. Especially in early in marriage.
This is sounds nice in theory but in reality you cannot anticipate real marital problems until you are married. in first marriages, if you need therapy prior to marriage to solve issues with the shidduch that you are dating, you should probably not be following through with that person…..
reality is that even people who date/live with their partners for years, cannot anticipate how the other partner will change once they are married to them and are ACTUALLY building a family….
You have some good points. Coming from someone who has been married for 46 years Kah the key word is committed. Of you are committed to the marriage you can, in most cases, make anything work.
If a person Boy/or Girl, where to date and get engaged, and then prepare for their marriage, if the word counseling-marriage counseling EVER comes up before, engagement, and during engagement, my opinion is, THE MARRIAGE IS A DISASTER. And engagement needs to be broken off immediately, For whatever reason it may be. Another thing I want to point out, (Nothing to do with this article) One day, on my long day of work, I went to the Pitza store just to have coffee with falafel, I put myself in a corner so that if I see someone I just ignore,… Read more »
I think you should keep going to the pizta [SIC} store and continue spying on those unsuspecting couples.Then make your diagnosis based on a 5 second observation. Under NO circumstances however, should you EVER go to a professional marriage counselor before marriage!!
Without respect, love quickly dies.
Gaining skills & tools to live our lives.
Emotional regulation, healthy boundaries,
good communication, creating a safe space to be heard. Acceptance.