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Thursday, 1 Tishri, 5785
  |  October 3, 2024

Are Divorce Rates on the Rise in the Frum World?

From the COLlive inbox: “Divorce rates among young frum couples have been on the rise - some ending before their first anniversary, and some already with a child. Why is that?” Full Story

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Every case is different
September 2, 2024 11:24 pm

The marriages that I know that fell apart were 100% related to abuse, and not any of the reasons mentioned in this article.

Abuse is unfortunately prevalent in our community. While physical abuse might be rare, emotional and psychological abuse and torment are unfortunately more common than you might think.

The Author of this Article is Completely Wrong
Reply to  Every case is different
September 3, 2024 9:26 am

The author of this article—who curiously chose anonymity although they revealed nothing personal—argues that the cause of the increasing divorce rate among newly-married couples is that they don’t enter the marriage with the correct understanding of what marriage is. The author then offers several remedies: (1) singles should study the halachos pertaining to marriage before entering the dating scene; (2) couples should have access to a marriage counselor before marrying so that they can relay on the counselor “if/when things get tough”; and (3) couples should read a book by Dr. Sue Johnson. Presumably, the author believes that by taking… Read more »

Anonymous
Reply to  The Author of this Article is Completely Wrong
September 3, 2024 5:37 pm

Normalizing an issue , is not a solution . Especially if it is a continuous issue , with many other side effects and un spoken consequences in family life for everyone involved .

Agree, also
Reply to  Every case is different
September 3, 2024 9:42 am

Too much self love. Not ready to have more bittul. On both sides.
For some reason people think it’s not for this generation, but it is far more then people have ever realized.
(Even in yeshiva, people get taught these days, the main thing is to avoid ‘kabolas ol’ and bitul. But the Rebbe never said that. The Rebbe did add the need to enjoy the learning, learn things and topics that you enjoy etc. But kabolas ol and bitul still are so important and maybe more important then it used to be)

middos
Reply to  Agree, also
September 3, 2024 10:42 am

sounds like people need to teach kids better middos
establish more classes for middos. Any kid who already has great middos doesn’t need to go to the class. Any kid who does have middos problems needs to attend the class.

Not "teach" good middos . . .
Reply to  middos
September 3, 2024 4:12 pm

Rather:
MODEL good middos

An educator
Reply to  middos
September 3, 2024 5:18 pm

Middos aren’t learned in class. They are taught through the adults around them modeling behavior and individual guidance.

then do all of that AND an extra class
Reply to  An educator
September 4, 2024 10:34 am

it doesn’t negate the original comment

Makes sense
Reply to  Every case is different
September 3, 2024 12:17 pm

If you see a new wave of bullies in schools do you think their middos will change ? Also their parents might have endured it but these generation has no patience for that . Also many kids are raised by themselves because parents too busy and also there is tendency to ship kids out too early where also other kind of abuse happens , last but not least beware of “great rabbis “ “ great families “ being too kind to perverts . Now s abuse that tragically is not RARE needs to be denounced in the strongest terms because… Read more »

Divorced Man
Reply to  Every case is different
September 3, 2024 3:07 pm

Actually, the opposite is true! The fact that today EVERYTHING that a person doesn’t like is considered “abuse” and every feeling of discomfort is considered “trauma” is a sign of our rotten culture in which unpleasantness and any strife whatsoever simply cannot be processed and tolerated. I’ve seen it myself in my own marriage and divorce: I never once raised my hand at my ex-wife, never swore at her, never threatened her, never forced her. Yet, at the time of my divorce, she told the rabbonim that I was “abusive,” and she was traumatized by my abuse. When pressed, she… Read more »

Here's what I think...
Reply to  Every case is different
September 3, 2024 11:47 pm

Its all the girls fault. Yup, I said it. Let me explain.
Most girls have been brainwashed to accept feminism as normal in some way or another.

This is a huge klipah that puts the marraige in limbo.

If a woman is good to her husband. Give him his space. Treats him with love and respect. Prepares his favorite meals. Boosts his ego. Makes him feel like number #1.

No guy on earth would leave that woman!

And from the positive you can learn the negative….

Torah
Reply to  Here's what I think...
September 4, 2024 10:52 am

https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/1391075/jewish/Wives-Brothers-Friends-203.htm “A talmid chacham who stood out in his generation because of his wisdom but sinned and reincarnated, there are certain types of sins1 for which his wisdom will be hidden and not recognizable at all in the next gilgul. Similarly, all those who learn Torah in this generation are on the level of the generation of the wilderness, with respect to whom it says, “As in the days of leaving Egypt I will show you wonders” (Michah 7:15), alluded to in the verse, “Behold, you shall die with your fathers and this people will rise up” (Deut. 31:16). This last verse was said by Moses, the soul root of… Read more »

Torah
Reply to  Here's what I think...
September 4, 2024 10:52 am

Their wives will dominate them since originally when the Mixed Multitude [that came out of Egypt with the Jews] made the golden calf, these men did not protest. (Ex. 32:3) The women, however, did not want to give their gold earrings to build the calf. (Midrash Raba on Ex. 32:2) They therefore now dominate their husbands.

https://guardyoureyes.com/
Reply to  Every case is different
September 10, 2024 11:36 am
Yes abuse is a HUGE issue
Reply to  Every case is different
September 10, 2024 1:53 pm

I have a close friend who was abused by her husband. She left him after he began punching holes in the wall and even shoved her. They had an 8 month old baby she had to think about. The emotional abuse was even worse and more constant and pervasive. On top of that, he then refused her a Get for almost a year and dragged out the divorce for nearly 4 years. ]That poor woman has lost so much and before they were even divorced, he got remarried. He got married to a truly mentally ill woman who was okay… Read more »

Thank you for this
September 2, 2024 11:28 pm

Can I please add another reason for divorces. People are completely dishonest about themselves. They do not disclose mental health issues prior to the marriage. After the other spouse finds out, and they most certainly will, the trust is broken. What about individuals who pretend to be more frum/Chassidish than they anctually are. After the wedding, the other spouse is in for the shock of their lives!! As someone who is divorced I disagree about the Bais Din making it easy to get divorced. Even after explaining the torture of being abused for years, I had to prove to them… Read more »

Exactly
Reply to  Thank you for this
September 9, 2024 8:49 pm

This was my 1st thought as well.

Devorah
September 2, 2024 11:29 pm

This article is very misleading and extremely insensitive.
What is the outcome and purpose of writing this article?

Commemts
Reply to  Devorah
September 4, 2024 2:32 am

This is a media method…..

Shadchan connection???
September 2, 2024 11:29 pm

Unsure of your point. Those of us who are committed to marriage, and to raising our children in a Chassidish and happy two parent home…do it with much Mesiras Nefesh and know we have the Rebbe’s Brocha. What does the shadchan have to do with it…wondering.

Excuse me?
September 2, 2024 11:35 pm

“But in today’s day and age with birth control being used by every couple that gets married”

Which world do you live in?

Lol
Reply to  Excuse me?
September 3, 2024 8:45 am

Seems like you live under a rock homie

Menachem.
Reply to  Excuse me?
September 3, 2024 8:49 am

Thought the same as i read it. What a bombshell of untruth within the Chassidishe community. I feel that as the writer mentions the frum community i think he’s / she’s too much in social media public issues and implementing them R”L to our society. Which allows me and credits me to ignore this entire post for blasphemy foolishness that doesn’t pertain to us at all. Not at all discrediting everything said here. But causes to question a lot. Sorry I’ll pass in this here. We are in (as we start Chodesh Elul) to be honest truthful and real if… Read more »

A mixed bag of good points and nonsense
September 2, 2024 11:36 pm

To be anonymous in a post like this just made it one level down to begin with. A man or woman worth their grain of salt should put a name. So many sweeping statements made here that have some truth and a lot of non truths, as is the fact with anyone who is super opinionated and thinks they know everything. Next issue is claiming divorce is only from young people. Scaring people into getting married is also not what we need now. And interestingly enough, the pressure to get married is way less than in previous years (hence getting… Read more »

I beg to differ.
Reply to  A mixed bag of good points and nonsense
September 3, 2024 9:22 am

I think if you’re so great you should leave off that comment with your name as well. What’s the problem that this person is anonymous? She/he is putting out something that can help someone. I know it’s helped me as I am part of the younger generation and I can relate to a lot of what he is saying. And I can tell you no one of the older generation can relate to our struggles.

careful
Reply to  I beg to differ.
September 3, 2024 1:00 pm

all’s well except your closing sentence which I think is false

Dov R.
September 2, 2024 11:38 pm

I haven’t read such bitterness in a while. The author of this rant needs a nice vacation

Correction
September 2, 2024 11:53 pm

The root cause is they didnt get to know who they are as a individual person. Each person has their own identity and that is either not developed while in school or they are shoved with “become like your parents since they are role models”. But the child mimics the role model but its crashes during marriage because they are not their parents! They can learn from their parents but their marriage is theirs not their parents! Another point: People are searching for truth deep connections etc… Yes yet mental health is destroying it and people are left with to… Read more »

Fantastic article
September 2, 2024 11:58 pm

I’ve been waiting for someone to address this issue, and your article did so in such a thoughtful and well-written way. As a 33-year-old single man, everything you’ve written resonates deeply with me. I’ve struggled with debilitating fear, anxiety, and depression, coupled with a strong desire to maintain my independence, which has kept me from pursuing marriage. However, I’ve been working on myself and have made significant progress. I’ve learned a lot about my triggers, emotions, and maladaptive thinking patterns, as well as developing strong self-awareness, and I’m now ready to start dating because I genuinely want to have an… Read more »

Response to your suggestion for rabbonim to delay
September 3, 2024 12:00 am

The rabbonim already go to great lengths to discourage jewish divorces. I’ve personaly heard this from a few who have divorced and from someone i know who at one point considered getting divorced but eventually stayed married. The rav will tell you It takes two to marry and two to divorce. Just like two of you decided to marry So according to jewish law,the two of you must agree to a divorce. There’s always that one spouse who will prolong the process,both woman and men, but the man has the advantage of controlling the gett.

Statistics?
September 3, 2024 12:06 am

I believe divorce rates have risen but by how much really?

Shadchan Stigma
September 3, 2024 12:06 am

Sadly a lot of people stay married out of fear the children they have will become stigmatized when it’s time for them to start looking for a husband or wife, we’ve all heard this, and it does unfortunately. I feel those who stay together for the sake of the children are true “broken homes”, 2 unhappy parents living together and raising kids can’t be very healthy for anyone involved. This is only my opinion, others may look at it differently, to each their own and I’m not going to argue about an opinion because it’s an opinion and not fact…… Read more »

Very good point
Reply to  Shadchan Stigma
September 4, 2024 1:16 am

Two of our children-in-law have divorced parents and they are Boruch Hashem terrific spouses! When I did the research for the Shidduchim I asked how they handled their parents’ divorces and whether they went to therapy. That’s key.

I can also relate to the idea of only being set up with “orphaned” guys when I myself was in Shidduchim. As if that was what defined me…!

Unfortunately...
Reply to  Very good point
September 4, 2024 9:48 am

We do not have same experience..but the spouse showed she was affected only AFTER the marriage..

Happily married child of broken marriage
Reply to  Shadchan Stigma
September 4, 2024 8:57 pm

When I was close to marriage I was wishing for parents to divorce so they would be happy
Somehow they modeled so all children got married n those in bad marriages really working to improve marriage
Only now do I appreciate their remaining married

this is one of the least valid op-eds on collive
September 3, 2024 12:07 am

and what are the actual divorce rates in the frum world recently

this quote you said is objectively false
September 3, 2024 12:10 am

“And lastly, no couple should go into marriage without having made contact with a 3rd party marriage counselor so if/when things get tough, they have whom to turn to for guidance. Having this set up before marriage helps with the privacy of the couple.”

No thank you
September 3, 2024 12:10 am

Honestly, I disagree with so many things here, it’s kind of ridiculous. But just a few important thoughts: Getting divorced in the first year is way better than getting divorced later and wasting years of life being unhappy. And I feel like this goes without saying, but if someone is getting divorced, doing it before having children is definitely the better option. I know the older generation (or like-minded individuals) hates to hear this, but more people are getting divorced because, B”H, they aren’t forced into staying anymore. Women (and men!) aren’t tolerating being treated horribly. Legally, laws are helping… Read more »

you are wrong about this
September 3, 2024 12:11 am

“If the individual is not really ready for marriage before he starts dating, then there is no point in getting married.”

Anonymous
September 3, 2024 12:13 am

I’m sorry , what?!
Birth control is used by every couple getting married?
Since when?
How is that even allowed according to halacha?

Sadly true
Reply to  Anonymous
September 4, 2024 1:19 am

A lot of “Chabad Lite” couples don’t necessarily comply with Halacha

Anonymous
Reply to  Sadly true
September 4, 2024 9:59 pm

Ok
So it makes sense that what follows is also a higher divorce rate and an unhappier marriage.

Exactly
Reply to  Anonymous
September 5, 2024 12:06 pm

Short, simple and to the point!

Societal pressure
September 3, 2024 12:15 am

parents are guilty of caving to sociatel pressure, they make there kids marry who they (the parents) are comfortable with.

you are absolutely right
Reply to  Societal pressure
September 3, 2024 2:40 pm

I’ve seen parents push their kids towards marriage when that person was in no way anywhere near the mindset to be married. Parents view marriage as a cure-all. I’ve heard one mother say she is trying to get her son married so hopefully, the girl would be a good influence on him spiritually. No one wants a fixer-upper, especially when they are conned into it.

root cause
September 3, 2024 12:15 am

is probably because they didn’t marry their real soul mate from their soul root. And in such a case it’s probably good they got divorced.

Where is this coming from.
September 3, 2024 12:18 am

If you feel so strongly then you should put your name. Now it just sounds like a rant!

shadchan
September 3, 2024 12:21 am

you said “Shadchanim are extremely underpaid for the work they do, perhaps if there was more of an incentive, we would have more qualified professional matchmakers providing a much better service. This should include quarterly meetings with every single they work with” no. it would be better if they weren’t paid at all or if money was not expected. People can give them gifts if they want to but it wouldn’t be expected. Rather, if the only matchmakers working were those who were not doing it for the money, but for the holy purpose of reuniting 2 soul mates. When… Read more »

Feel free
Reply to  shadchan
September 3, 2024 10:19 am

To be the first one to start!

where and how
Reply to  Feel free
September 3, 2024 10:46 am

do people become matchmakers

Wake up to reality
Reply to  shadchan
September 3, 2024 11:02 am

How will they put bread on their tables? For many, it’s their form is Parnasa. Do you tell the same to Shluchim? To help people but do not fundraise or ask for money?

A more balanced approach
Reply to  Wake up to reality
September 3, 2024 1:08 pm

If a Shadchan just makes a suggestion that ends up working out, no, I don’t think that deserves $3000, which is what many shadchanim are asking for. On the other hand, if they put in a lot of effort, they should be paid even if it doesn’t work out. Perhaps paying people for the work they do, rather than for something that is out of their control (the couple deciding to marry), would help encourage shadchanim to put in more effort into setting people up, and enchourage more people into the profession.

Generalizations and speculations!
September 3, 2024 12:22 am

Our divorce rate is still pretty low. Divorce isn’t encouraged definitely not by rabbonim ,nor is it as easy in this community as they say. There isn’t as much support ,even from single parent support groups , as they like to make it seem. The community does little to help most aside from a lucky few of children and parents from single parent households.The divorce rate may have gone up slightly, but mostly for good reason ,we just aren’t willing to put up with abuse. This generation isn’t any worse than the older generation. We work harder,expenses are higher, we… Read more »

Food for thought
September 3, 2024 12:26 am

Very well said and a lot to think about. Thank you for sharing.

Statistics?
September 3, 2024 12:29 am

What is the actual percentage of the divorce rate increase?

Brilliant!
September 3, 2024 12:36 am

Married for ten years and agree with almost everything!

The only thing I don’t agree on is the 3rd party counselor. Unless there are specific skills you are looking to learn from a professional (such as communication skills or problem solving skills), I wouldnt recommend a liscenced counselor as a standard, especially not for talk therapy. For counseling and advice it’s better to go to a wise older person who knows both parties well.

Can you recommend
Reply to  Brilliant!
September 3, 2024 11:21 am

Some wise older individuals that are wise and could advise in a difficult marriage?

Recommendation
Reply to  Can you recommend
September 3, 2024 4:27 pm

Rabbi Manis Friedman. He tells it like it truly is. When there is sick and cruel behavior going on, Rabbi Friedman does NOT spout the same old platitudes suitable for healthy marriages just going through a rough patch. It is really sad that there are so few (at least that is what I found) who don’t get it about charming, functional spouses who save up their sickness to dump on the spouse or family when they come home. And I am not talking about mere grumpiness. I am talking about sick, truly cruel behavior. Rabbi Friedman cuts right through it.… Read more »

Mashpia is missing from the article
Reply to  Brilliant!
September 5, 2024 12:08 pm

Finally!
I hoping someone would point this out

Maybe the new generation is just breaking the stigma
September 3, 2024 12:44 am

Many of our parents and grandparents only stayed married b/c of the Social pressure and not wanting to make waves in the family and “ruin” their children by getting divorced and now (tho there is still a long way to go) it’s a lot more acceptable and there is more support for those who get divorced.

You are probably right, but
Reply to  Maybe the new generation is just breaking the stigma
September 3, 2024 1:26 pm

That says nothing about what is
the solution to issue at hand. Surely it isn’t a good thing that so many marriges are failing. We need to do better at at setting people up and giving them the necessary support to help their marriage grow.

Divorced Man
Reply to  Maybe the new generation is just breaking the stigma
September 3, 2024 3:15 pm

And what’s wrong with not wanting to ruin the children the way divorce almost invariably does? I think that’s as good a reason as any to bite the bullet!

Divorced Guy
September 3, 2024 12:55 am

As a divorced guy myself, let me say that divorce is terrible. If you are married and have kids, do everything you can to avoid divorce and save your marriage! Invest more in your marriage, forgive your spouse, accept your spouse for who s/he is, go to therapy, etc. Do whatever it takes to preserve your marriage and spare your children the agony and pain that your divorce will wreak on them! You think the grass will be greener on the other side, but really it won’t be. As for causes: I think there are many causes, including (in no… Read more »

Feminist Ideology
Reply to  Divorced Guy
September 3, 2024 10:47 am

There are many Instagram and Facebook personalities who claim to be frum but their advice is rooted in feminist ideology and psychology rather than Torah.

It’s a slow, creeping tendency but next thing you know the spouse is pulled in.

Happened to me
September 3, 2024 12:57 am

As a young naive Bocher I was pressured heavily by my shadchan to propose after only 4 dates. Once we were engaged the wedding was on my mind and I stopped “investigating”. By the time I realize how wrong she was for me I was married and she was pregnant. We are still together because that makes most sense. But the continuous agony of living with someone with very conflicting values doesn’t stop, even after a decade. Had I gone on few more dates I am sure I would have realised the conflicts… Maybe I was just meant to be,… Read more »

only 4 dates?
Reply to  Happened to me
September 3, 2024 9:58 am

sorry to hear

Ouch
Reply to  Happened to me
September 4, 2024 1:24 am

I hear your pain

People are hiding crucial info
September 3, 2024 12:58 am

1 reason is dishonesty . Klal Israel is challenged with unprecedented levels for mental illness anxiety , depression , addiction , rage etc . Most people put it under the rug 2 Americans are incredibly shallow . Despite being frum they truly assimilate and try part of dishonesty keep appearances . Last is lack of guidance .

Get ready
September 3, 2024 12:59 am

These comments are gonna be entertaining

Please false statements
September 3, 2024 1:02 am

Not every couple is using birth control stop making statements to feel good who ever wrote this article and give a bad name to Jews!!!!!

Preconceived notions
September 3, 2024 1:50 am

I believe there are too many preconceived notions about what marriage is supposed to be and how a man and woman are supposed to act in it. Too often people feel trapped in a marriage or feel pressured to fit a certain role that society claims is demanded from them. Perhaps the solution is to allow people to create their own idea of what marriage is supposed to look like (within the broader realm of Halacha, of course) and teach people that a successful relationship is ultimately about two individuals learning how to interact and live with each other in… Read more »

Young prople
September 3, 2024 2:49 am

Some young people don’t want to put in the effort in many areas of their life .. marriage and relationships are hard … but worth it .. many young people don’t have r light resilience to stick out challengers … it’s tough

Birth control presented against the Rebbe's view &
September 3, 2024 4:30 am

Is Collive.com here to promote birth control as something that everyone does??
Many couples may need it, but this is based on individual need, in consultation with a Rov.
And especially when this article is about young couples, where there are more halachic issues before going the mitzvah of pru urvu, and generally less need for birth control.
From the article: “But in today’s day and age with birth control being used by every couple that gets married.”

Um no
September 3, 2024 4:48 am

What a bunch of absolute nonsense.

A good start
September 3, 2024 5:13 am

to this conversation that every person involved with boys and girls should contemplate and add to.

Thank You
September 3, 2024 5:34 am

Thank you please follow up with more.

Nothing to do with shadchanim
September 3, 2024 6:40 am

Everything to do with people being over exposed to non realistic ideas about relationships (mainly through “influencers” on social media

This
Reply to  Nothing to do with shadchanim
September 3, 2024 9:18 am

IMHO, internet and especially watching inappropriate stuff is to blame….both by boy and girl…

Inappropriate
Reply to  This
September 3, 2024 10:43 am

Not just explicit stuff but living on Instagram and Facebook all day, ignoring the spouse. Using Instagram personalities as a way to escape into fantasyland… while ignoring the spouse. Becoming influenced by these self help gurus whose advice is rooted in feminist ideology rather than Torah. All of that is inappropriate as well.

shoutout to guardyoureyes
Reply to  This
September 4, 2024 10:38 am

any boy with a gye problem there is a website called guardyoureyes

"Shadchanim are underpaid"
September 3, 2024 7:08 am

Are you kidding me?
Shadchanim look at data, and select two profiles and try them, until it finally works.
It’s an overpaid work. They get thousands of dollars from each side, and there are literally NO risks. Even if C”V the marriage goes south.
so it’s ANYHTING but underpaid

Why aren't
Reply to  "Shadchanim are underpaid"
September 3, 2024 10:23 am

You a shadchan then?
It’s so easy

Agree, sorta
Reply to  "Shadchanim are underpaid"
September 3, 2024 12:28 pm

While some shadchannim put in lotsa work and effort, no one is forcing them to do what they’ve chosen to do, so “underpaid” seems an incongruous term here. More importantly, I’d love to see a shadchan system that comes with a guarantee, otherwise, what indeed are they offering? Connecting? Intermediary conversation? Get paid an hourly rate then, like a consultant or intermediary

Try it!
Reply to  "Shadchanim are underpaid"
September 3, 2024 3:54 pm

Why don’t you first try it for a few weeks before leaving a nasty comment?

if you are going to tell commenters to try it
Reply to  Try it!
September 3, 2024 9:45 pm

then you need to tell them where to begin. How do people become matchmakers and access the resumes of people, to match them?

Well written article
September 3, 2024 7:28 am

If you write your name it adds authority to the article written

Please dont write in absolutes
September 3, 2024 7:52 am

Please dont write in absolutes
One example “But in today’s day and age with birth control being used by every couple that gets married,”
” combined with a false notion that there is someone better out there”

Honest kind Shadchanim
September 3, 2024 8:01 am

Who are they??

This assumes they can get to a gett
September 3, 2024 8:28 am

….

Marriage counseling before marriage
September 3, 2024 8:42 am

Why don’t we start sending couples before they get married to a married counselor

A couple of reasons
1) to discuss financial issues
2) they can come from two different backgrounds which can be a conflict down the road
3) being on the same page how they want to raise there kids chinuch wise

"underpaid shadchanim"?????
September 3, 2024 8:51 am

Shadchanim are not underpaid maybe even overpaid!!

This article is exxagerated in a negative way
September 3, 2024 9:24 am

Majority of couples in crown heights stay married and have strong values instilled in them to work it. This is just an opinion and not facts. The divorce rate has risen slightly because abuse is no longer stigmatized . Despite that,there are a number of people still in abusive marriages and not getting divorced and majority have healthy imperfect marriages as it should be. Please give statistics as someone already mentioned,before exxagerating about frum divorce rates,it’s still really low!

Dear all the opinionated non divorced commentator
September 3, 2024 9:28 am

I’m divorced and you don’t know “the root cause” of my divorce! Thank you! Have a great day!

so....
Reply to  Dear all the opinionated non divorced commentator
September 3, 2024 12:29 pm

why don’t you tell us your root cause, anonymously?

School system
September 3, 2024 9:47 am

I think a problem which is over looked is the educational system. How differently the boys are educated than the girls. So much resources are put in the girls religious and secular. The girls now mostly go to college and are expected to make money. Less pressure is put on the guys. They are discouraged from college. Told that parnassa is from God and not to over exert themselves. I think once married the women lose respect for their husbands. Most of today’s divorces are being initiated by the wives. I see a lot of people now getting divorced after… Read more »

you aren't missing out on anything
Reply to  School system
September 3, 2024 11:17 am

by not learning secular subjects

I discourage all jewish males
Reply to  School system
September 3, 2024 11:18 am

from college especially nonjewish colleges

Jewish Colleges
Reply to  I discourage all jewish males
September 3, 2024 11:50 pm

There are reasons Jewish colleges exist. Schools like Touro and YU help students get a degree while also staying strong in their yiddeshkeit. A Jewish man will not lose his yiddeshkeit by going to further his education and help make money for his family

You are partially right
Reply to  School system
September 3, 2024 1:48 pm

You are right woman going to college is part of the issue, as woman with college degrees are more likely to be single or devorced. However, instead of sending boys to college too, which would most likely destroy our way life, perhaps we need to give woman more of a Jewish education (not just one or two years of seminary) and less of a secular one, which often gives false notions about what femininity should be. This is not to say boys don’t have their issues too, but we can’t destroy yiddishkeit, just to have a few more dollars in… Read more »

Hmm
Reply to  You are partially right
September 3, 2024 11:48 pm

And how exactly are they supposed to get parnasa if neither side is educated? Money doesn’t grow on trees

It's called working
Reply to  Hmm
September 4, 2024 11:09 am

Money comes from working, not from education. 80% of Jobs don’t need a college degree and plenty of people do just fine without a degree, especially in the Jewish community. The myth of needing a college degree is slowly disappearing even in the secular world, were millions of people are stuck with huge debts from student loans that take them decades to pay off, and a decent carrer is no guarantee after college. If you say that our community needs more job training programs or emotional and spirtual support for people who work, then great, however sending everyone to college… Read more »

you are right
Reply to  School system
September 3, 2024 2:55 pm

Been married almost 20 years and the #1 argument has always been money. I had a secular education my husband had to get a GED after we were married. The skills he lacks, for instance just basic writing. He refuses to do it, even a checkbook because he is too embarrassed. And no this is not uncommon I’ve asked many friends and family where the wife is delegated to doing the writing in the family. Women feel more overworked than ever now, they are the breadwinners and mental load carriers I could see why especially with the debilitating rise in… Read more »

Anonymous
Reply to  you are right
September 4, 2024 10:07 pm

The issue here sounds like “he refuses to do it”
My husband is the exact opposite.
Takes full responsibility for the financial support, works real hard , has a great attitude and earns a three figure salary.
Had he gone to college we would have started off with mountains of debt for no reason whatsoever.
Never got a GED.
So there’s that.

Every couple uses birth control right away?
September 3, 2024 10:04 am

A) Simply untrue! So many have a kid right away many others it takes longer because of the one above…this is really not the reality and saying it this way only normalizes it for readers when it really is not the norm amongst your average Ehrliche somewhat Chassidishe couple. B) Also adding a third wheel to your marriage when there’s literally nothing wrong sounds like a bad idea. When someone needs help they should get it. C) there are different theories of how marriage counseling should take place, with each other or not. Deciding anonymously in your article that only… Read more »

Pro divorce
September 3, 2024 10:46 am

my parents divorcing was the best thing that ever happened to my family. it taught me to be happily and gratefully single even in a community that thinks i’m second class. at least I’m happy! can’t say the same for almost all the married people i know

Divorced Man
Reply to  Pro divorce
September 3, 2024 3:22 pm

It’s a shame that you’re happy being single. You should be unhappy being single and should strive and seek every day… The Rebbe says to look for your bashert as if you were looking for a lost diamond. Don’t be happy and complacent!

Let them be happy
Reply to  Divorced Man
September 3, 2024 11:52 pm

Why are you so upset about someone being happy and content in their life just because they’re single?

Leave him
Reply to  Divorced Man
September 4, 2024 12:02 am

At some point he will get bored of himself or being alone

Sources
September 3, 2024 10:53 am

This increase rate of divorce is taken merely as a sample from the authors circle of friends.

Anonymous
Reply to  Sources
September 4, 2024 10:15 pm

Which also doesn’t put family as the shared priority in the marriage. As seen with the everyone is on birth control. Do they not want kids? Why did they marry? For their own entertainment? No surprise they divorce at the first signs of a bump in the road.
It’s a pity if so, cause each bump you overcome together will bring you that much closer to each other. Unless there is serious abuse or something.

Oy vey
September 3, 2024 10:59 am

We do have more divorces than years ago but that’s because today’s kids are messed up. They have messed up hashkafa. They want to keep dating because “ maybe they’ll find better” and when they finally commit to someone they can’t hold on because it’s a disposable generation. And nobody knows what it means to stick it out. When they don’t like their class, they fight until they get their class changed. Teachers can’t award the good kids because the others will feel bad. We are just training our kids that they always have to get whatever they want and… Read more »

Swamp
September 3, 2024 11:07 am

Great topic… but if you haven’t been through a divorce first hand, you have no idea what you are talking about. And for those of you who think the divorce rate isn’t on an upward trajectory- get your heads out of the sand! Divorce rate is up and going strong. As a therapist, biggest trend I have seen is unhealthy habits: including dishonesty/ no respect/selfish behaviors & social pressure to be married & keep up with the big expenses that these younger couples were not prepared for… Don’t start blaming the parents/the schools/the shaddchan/the bashert… they all have tried. It’s… Read more »

don't marry younger girls
September 3, 2024 11:09 am
they got divorced because they were a false match
September 3, 2024 11:15 am

“The Baal Shem Tov said that when the heavenly announcement is made, “The daughter of so and so, to so and so…” (forty days before conception, this announcement in heaven is made…) then many false matches try to take its place – which it’s not so easy to rid oneself… – therefore sometimes they get spoken about, other times even engagements come – which need to be broken etc.”

Did you really want him/her or was it pressure?
September 3, 2024 11:21 am

I know of cases where people got married, not because
they really wanted that person, but because of family, friends,
etc., pushing or shaming them to get married. Well. the expectation
of love developing after marriage – NO! Did not happen. So,
bye bye.

In my humble opinion, make sure you really have a mutual desire for each other,
than get married.

A kol v’Chomer. If marriages break up, even after at first feeling intense love for each other, then if you had no love in first place, for sure the marriage ends!

Europe
September 3, 2024 11:57 am

all I know is in Europe people hardly ever got divorced and they lived simpler and happier lives, I hear so many stories of how poor people were and sameach bchelkoy.

That's because you only heard the good ones
Reply to  Europe
September 3, 2024 1:50 pm

The bad marriages were kept secret,people didn’t speak in those days.

Divorced Man
Reply to  Europe
September 3, 2024 3:25 pm

If you mean in times long passed, life was much more difficult so people weren’t able to focus on “happiness.” You were lucky if you made it through the day, the week, the month or the year. Also, people lived much shorter lives, so the thought, “I can’t tolerate the idea of spending 60 more years with this person!” didn’t cross anyone’s mind. People expected to live another 10, 15 years, and for so short a period, any marriage is survivable and divorce simply unworth the hassle.

Birth Control for newly married couple not a thing
September 3, 2024 12:32 pm

And if your partner insists on it, you should probably pass.

Talk about getting off on the wrong foot, sheesh

how can you make a blanket statement
Reply to  Birth Control for newly married couple not a thing
September 4, 2024 10:41 am

if someone has mental health issues or

marriage
September 3, 2024 12:40 pm

I think an elephant in this conversation room is that marriage based on conversation, and not living successfully together first, exacerbates the challenge of marriage. Not to say living as a couple pre marriage creates less divorces, but not really knowing about compatibility before commitment and doing couple work, is a disaster waiting to happen. But here’s my point: Getting married using the frum track can work and have minimal divorce rate if both are truly god and rebbe oriented. As long as you’re both focused on what the divine authorities prescribe, you’re a true couple in the business of… Read more »

The Secular World is the Problem!!!
September 3, 2024 1:18 pm

Since when should we be putting pressure on our bochurim to make a parnassah and go to a college! It is pashut that exposure to the secular world weakens the neshamah. Better to have large families and mesiras nefesh. In this way, by separating from the gashmius marriages will be a binyan adei ad!

Well…
Reply to  The Secular World is the Problem!!!
September 3, 2024 11:57 pm

If the husbands don’t make a parnassah, then you can’t expect the wife to be the breadwinner, full time mommy, and perfect wife with a large family. Who is providing for this large family you speak of? Just the wife, who also has to take care of the kids, make them dinner, put them to bed, clean after them? That isn’t a happy marriage, and if anyone says otherwise there’s always one person who’s lying

Huh?
Reply to  The Secular World is the Problem!!!
September 3, 2024 11:57 pm

And when there are money problems that are pushing the couple towards divorce, you can pay their bills?

The reason for the divorce rate is bcuz shidduchim
September 3, 2024 3:45 pm

It doesn’t create compatible couples. The dating values taught in yeshiva are bad for actual relationships. Lastly, there’s not stigma around divorce for millenials, so staying in a bad, unhappy marriage a life sentence like it was.

Yes, there’s someone better for you.
No, learning the halachos of marriage won’t make you a better partner.
No, your seminary teachers and Zal mashgichim aren’t going to teach you how to be a good partner.
Yes, marriage counseling is important, but more important is therapy for the individuals in a relationship.

-Elias Rosner

middos
Reply to  The reason for the divorce rate is bcuz shidduchim
September 4, 2024 10:42 am

quality of men needs to be increased

Misconception
Reply to  The reason for the divorce rate is bcuz shidduchim
September 4, 2024 11:34 am

I guess learning in yeshiva how to treat every Yid with respect and dignity and to do chesed whenever possible, in no way can help marriage!! Do you think Halacha about marriage just teaches tenical laws about niddah and nothing practical?? Many of the issues mentioned here that are hurting relationships are indeed talked about in Halacha, for example a man having to support their wife is one of the three cardinal responsibilities of a man in marriage. Also, a woman needing to respect their husband is a Halacha etc etc. Perhaps, it’s because there is a major ignorance of… Read more »

Interesting
September 3, 2024 7:56 pm

But is there anyone that will do anything about it or is it now another thing to complain about?

Internet to blame
September 3, 2024 8:36 pm

As many mentioned.
One more point:
Girls get lots of bayis yehudi classes jn high school already and mostly in sem.
Boys get none. This does not add up!
Boys need to get hadracha about a Jewish home not just a crash crossing course which is what they get. Bochrim need much more education.
I’m talking about going thru the Rebbes letters on jewish home. It’s all jn English today. I wish this could be implemented jn the yeshiva system

👏👏👏
Reply to  Internet to blame
September 4, 2024 12:07 pm

Yes!!! finally

struggle
September 3, 2024 9:15 pm

Rabbi YY Jacobson told: The Rebbe wrote a man struggling with his marriage. The Rebbe told him ” Most of our souls have been here before. How does one know for what purpose one’s soul came down again? When one see there’s a task that is difficult and there’s a lot of resistance, that’s probably one of the reasons the soul came down again. The fact that his marriage is so difficult is one of the most important missions in life , so one shouldn’t run away because running away will be running away from one’s spiritual destiny.

that cannot be true
Reply to  struggle
September 4, 2024 10:42 am

for all cases of marriage. Only in some.

Follow the Rebbe's directives
September 4, 2024 12:24 am

Marriage is an area of life in which we need tremendous brachos from Hashem. In our circles we know each other for a relatively short period of time and we don’t live together before marriage. And many of us get married young and immature, before our brains are fully developed (the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that controls planning, prioritizing, and decision making, is usually fully developed around age 25). We are so lucky to have access to the Rebbe’s guidance for dating and marriage.If we follow the Rebbe’s directives we’re sure to have Hashem’s brachos for this journey… Read more »

then why on earth
Reply to  Follow the Rebbe's directives
September 4, 2024 10:43 am

do you allow girls to get married at age 18. Raise the age

Worried friend
September 4, 2024 12:54 am

The issue is essentially that all the single girls in lubavitch really just want a guy named Yoel I have a friend Yoel and I can’t go anywhere with him :/

I do not know
Reply to  Worried friend
September 4, 2024 10:43 am

what you are talking about

More harm than good?
September 4, 2024 1:39 am

I’m sorry to say this article is more a rant of the author’s opinions than a well thought out piece.

It seems the author meant well. However, with gun spraying in all directions, they may hurt the cause they are trying to help.

While intending to preempt problems before marriage, the article is stirring up a lot of negative feelings in people for no reason.

Please, if you are going to write an op-ed. Think it through well. Write it well. Sleep on it. Get some critical feedback on it before posting it to the world.

Someone in the thick of it
September 4, 2024 7:54 am

Hi, I would like to write about this from the perspective of a wife in the thick of a shaky marriage. Honestly from my opinion a lot of the reason for divorce is lack of openness on dates. People in the frume community don’t date so long and aren’t going to disclose serious mental health and/or addiction issues. Also, I do agree with the author about going into the marriage with commitment. If you do a google search you will see the number one reason couples do get divorced is because lack of commitment. I am here fighting for my… Read more »

what percentage of boys
Reply to  Someone in the thick of it
September 4, 2024 10:43 am

are not disclosing problems

CM
Reply to  Someone in the thick of it
September 4, 2024 12:40 pm

Wishing you peace and Hashem’s guidance.

Mindset
September 4, 2024 9:46 am

In Yeshiva, the R”Y made it clear to all the boys that it’s a one way ticket. You get married and are there to stay no matter what. People took more time vetting/dating, and almost everyone stayed married. He used to say “יָגַעְתִּי מָצָאתִי תַּאֲמִין” it’s hard work but worth it. As an aside, the get procedure is designed to take time so that people can still change their mind. (when i got my marriage license in Staten island, the clerk mentioned marriage is free and divorce is $1,000. When asked why, he said that many people choose to stay… Read more »

Mental illness
September 4, 2024 11:40 am

I don’t know about just any case of mental illness,
but if a victim of this malady has a history of
getting dangerous, especially to his/her spouse, then
don’t be so fast to get married. I know that in such
cases a Rav would say you are patur (not obligated to marry).

The reason I got divorced
September 4, 2024 12:06 pm

Was because I was married to a big fat baby in the body of a normal looking man. He expected everything from me but contributed nothing in return, was jealous of the time spent with OUR children, threw tantrums when things didn’t go his way etc. and still I would’ve stayed, except he saw a woman who he thought was more attractive then me and I needed to be replaced. If this is not a reason to get divorced then what is?? Also what does the shadchan have to do with anything? Nobody forced me into marrying him, he just… Read more »

quality of boys
Reply to  The reason I got divorced
September 5, 2024 9:47 am

needs to be increased a lot

Feminist Ideology
September 4, 2024 1:09 pm

So many of these comments referenced “feminist ideology.” What exactly does that mean? What exactly are the feminist ideals that are poisoning our community?

I think they mean
Reply to  Feminist Ideology
September 9, 2024 12:27 pm

Women who don’t see themselves as inferior to men or don’t see their mission in life to serve/cater to a man.

People are getting married late
September 4, 2024 2:23 pm

People should get married at age 18 as written in Pirkey Avos. The couple can grow together and form a beautiful edifice. No external outlooks should enter the minds. We can look at the chasidishe world and see the Devorce rate if theirs is smaller so we have one solution.

I agree
Reply to  People are getting married late
September 5, 2024 9:43 am

boys need to get married at 18. Now it’s up to all you to actually do that.

I PROTEST
September 5, 2024 8:58 pm

BH.
Heavon forbid to say such a thing that all couples chas v’sholom do birth control.
The Rebbe said (Sicha to nshei chabad Tammuz 5740) that there is no thing that has destroyed families more then family planning.

marrage therepist
September 5, 2024 9:06 pm

bh. i read once that the rebbe said that he doesnt do marriage counseling because you need to speak seperately to the wife and seperately to the husband and for that he has no time.

The Great Rabbi Shwei who saved hundreds of famlies from devorce always spoke seperately like any Rov with common sense. All these proffesional phoneys with letters after their name that don’t have the common sense to speak seperately with each spouce, should be banned from speaking to anyone. They are devorce counslers not marriage counslers.

Rabbi Schwei
Reply to  marrage therepist
September 9, 2024 12:28 pm

Yes he was a very gifted rav who kept many couples together. His wisdom was first rate. And he had true bittul so people always accepted his advice because it came from such a pure place.

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