By COLlive reporter
Rabbi Yosef Braun, member of the Crown Heights Beis Din, was recently asked about carrying a gun on Shabbos in light of the growing anti-Semitic attacks on shuls and Jews in New York, New Jersey and around the United States.
Here is what he answered, on halacha2go.com:
The question of whether it’s permissible to carry a gun on Shabbos entails two issues: muktzah (objects which are “set aside” and may not be moved during Shabbos) and hotza’ah (carrying in the public domain) in a place where there is no eiruv.
The second issue is rather clear-cut: only clothing and personal ornaments are permitted to be carried on one’s person on Shabbos, and a gun is neither. The argument that a gun can serve as a fashion accessory is belied by the prophecy that all weapons will be crushed and turned into constructive tools, such as plowshares, when Moshiach comes, indicating that the Torah does not recognize any decorative value in weaponry.
A gun’s muktzah status, however, is subject to discussion among contemporary poskim; the question is whether it’s a kli she’melachto l’issur (a tool whose primary function is forbidden on Shabbos) since it was crafted for the purpose of killing, or whether it’s a kli she’melachto l’heter (a tool whose primary function is permitted on Shabbos) since its main objective is to instill fear. Carrying a concealed weapon seems to indicate that its use is primarily l’issur, while carrying it openly could suggest that it’s l’heter.
If there’s concern about a possible threat which would justify carrying a gun on Shabbos, even if it’s muktza or there’s no eiruv, a local rav with an understanding of the prevalent conditions must be consulted to determine whether the current threat is significant enough to justify carrying a gun on Shabbos.
VIDEO:
anything conclusive available and/or a little more applicable lemaaseh bepoel??
So he didn’t answer the question of can you carry a gun on Shabbos in Crown Heights. He just answered it generally. The question is are things dangerous enough in Crown Heights where you can carry a gun here.
Bc its 99% impossible to get a license to carry in Brooklyn…
and that would apply to every day of the week…this was just about the issues of carrying on shabbos (muktza, eruv, etc)
what about pepper spray since guns are illegal in ny
Obviously he didn’t answer if you can carry practically – Rabbonim only pasken if the question is a practical one. Since he is one of the Rabbonim in Crown Heights it’s not a practical question due to the fact that in NY you can’t legally carry anything that might protect you. That’s why he says to ask a local rov – if you are in a place that allows you to protect yourself.
Check this out for deep halachik
analysis
http://podcast.headlinesbook.com/e/11318-the-pittsburgh-tragedy-a-discussion-of-the-correct-approach-and-its-lessons-a-halachick-analysis-of-guns-on-shabbos-and-in-shuls/podcast.headlinesbook.com
Rabbi Chaim kanievsky said it’s allowed to carry gun in these situations
He said “if it’s pikuach nefesh”
https://youtu.be/Snoi5bi447k
Enough said.
“the question is whether it’s a kli she’melachto l’issur since it was crafted for the purpose of killing, or whether it’s a kli she’melachto l’heter since its main objective is to instill fear. Carrying a concealed weapon seems to indicate that its use is primarily l’issur, while carrying it openly could suggest that it’s l’heter.” I don’t understand. A concealed weapon’s primary purpose is to kill *if and when it is necessary*, which is muttar, so it’s kli shemelachto leheter. Further, the statistics show that the majority of defensive uses of weapons involve the victim merely drawing the weapon, whereupon… Read more »
If you have a gun in CH in some miraculous way, do the community a favor and carry it.
Rabbi Goren gave has a fascinating twist to the issue of kli she’melachto l’issur (vs l’heter) since the ONLY reason such a weapon would ever be used would be davka to SAVE or defend a life, which itself is a mitzvah! Therefore there should be no issue, as has been accepted by many contemporary Lubavitcher Rabbonim.
absolutely carry a gun
The Rebbe mentioned this so many times. Why would this halacha not apply here?
עכו”ם שצרו על עיירות ישראל אם באו על עסקי ממון אין מחללין עליהם את השבת באו על עסקי נפשות ואפילו סתם יוצאים עליהם בכלי זיין ומחללין עליהם את השבת ובעיר הסמוכה לספר אפילו לא באו אלא על עסקי תבן וקש מחללין עליהם את השבת
These times it is definitely עסקי נפשות….
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 – humorous, yet true American view. Better to be judged by Shomayim than carried by 6 – Halachic view.
he’ll let you know privately. it’s very clear that that was the meaning of the answer.
It seems the Rav may have been avoiding ruling Halachically about the possibility of a continued threat so as not to decree it Halachically, possibly thereby effecting one via spiritual channels that may no longer be. Similarly, while the climate of jealousy etc may be old news, the physical manifestations are maybe unconnected per se one to another suggesting they may not be a definite continuing pattern, and if only several individuals went overboard, but one needn’t assume that this is therefore a sustained trend. EITHER WAY: maybe it bears mentioning that if there is a doubt as to safety… Read more »
The argument for a firearm to be considered as ‘designated for forbidden use’ (kli shemelachto l’issur) – is because a fire (explosion) is caused when the trigger is pulled.
And not – “since it was crafted for the purpose of killing”. [Rabbi Braun does not say it in the video so perhaps the mistake was made by the transcriber.]
Just as Hatzalah can carry their radios in case of an emergency so that they can save a life so too if you have the ability to carry a gun so in case of an emergency you can save many lives.
No need to over complicate things
I asked my own rav years ago. The gun itself isn’t muksa, I was told. Since our community has an eruv, I’m allowed to carry on shabbos. Concealed.
Isn’t the whole point mute since the totalitarian state of NY will not let you have a gun permit anyway?
Now, do we have any such individuals ready to
risk their freedom? See:
https://www.newyorkcriminallawyer.com/nyc/firearms-weapons-charges-lawyer/criminal-possession-of-a-firearm/
The question that should be asked of a Posek is whether if one who lives in a jungle can use a gun on Shabbos to kill an animal about to attack.
Psak often depends on the question.
Please can we have an answer clearly as a local rov… for CH currently Yes or No…
Hire professionals or make sure that whoever has a gun can use it as a professional would. In presentday America we should realize that in the cases where lives were B”H saved it was by highly qualified people who know how to be alert and react properly. It is frighting to think that so many rely on community members who may not be effective and could harm bystanders.
If there is an Eruv then of course no problem with carrying. A gun is mukzah. Mukzah means you can’t move it with your hands. If a gun is strapped on to you and you don’t remove it the whole shabbos then it’s not a problem. That means you must sleep with it be it strapped to your waist or legs. You may need to wear very loose pants if you don’t want to sleep with your pants. Of course if someone charges in to a shul with a gun or knife you would be allowed halachicly to pull out… Read more »
The Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said to “mach da Eretz Yisroel”. There, soldiers and civilians alike carry weapons on Shabbos in the most dangerous places in a manner that they are conveniently accessed. No one is told to have wear the weapons or sleep with them. Please, the fifth Shulchan Aruch is common sense, start carrying some of that!
When you are in real Pekuach nefesh of course you can handle a gun. But let’s not get carried away here in America. It’s not a war zone. A gun is mukzah and that’s Halacha. Moving an item of mukzah with your hand is forbidden. Unless you need to space or need the item for a use like a hammer to crack open a nut,and you don’t Have a nut cracker.