Create Account
ב"ה
Wednesday, 16 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 19, 2019

    Maria Didn’t Show Up…

    From the COLlive inbox: The cleaning lady of a Crown Heights resident didn't show up this week and she knows exactly why... Full Story

    ‘You’ve Shown Eagerness to Help’

    Next Story »

    Head Staff For CGI Boys – Detroit

    118
    Opinions and Comments

    To keep track of your comments, follow a conversation or flag a comment Login
    avatar
      Subscribe  
    newest oldest most voted
    Notify of
    As a hispanic frum jew I am appalled by the title of this article
    Guest
    As a hispanic frum jew I am appalled by the title of this article

    This is racist. You should change the title at once, as this will surely cast negative light on your site and to the public frum image of hispanics at large.
    I fully am in agreement of the toichen of this article, and the manner in which people behave is hepech ahavas yisroel, but reffering to cleaning ladys as Maria is a chutzpah shein komahyu, and you have an achrayos to avoid RACIST language!

    Ok then
    Guest
    Ok then

    Are you kidding me?

    Speak with love
    Guest
    Speak with love

    I can see from the way you are writing that you are very upset because it is wrecking pesach and you are very stressed however more people would listen to your words when if they are written without all the anger.

    By the same token....
    Guest
    By the same token....

    While I don’t dispute ANY of what you say, and also encourage folks to play fair, allow me to ask you this:

    Do you issue Maria a 1099 at the end of the year?

    Free market - respect
    Guest
    Free market - respect

    Its a free market – if you would have matched the offer you wouldn’t be writing this article, Another theory is you mistreated your “goy” – (a title which is repugnant) – and she found someone who will treat her with the respect she deserves. You don’t own anyone – they have the right to do what they want when they want.

    maria
    Guest
    maria

    wow! So true! Well said

    You are right!!!
    Guest
    You are right!!!

    And this causes cleaning ladyes to ask for more money per an hour!!

    Where is Maria?
    Guest
    Where is Maria?

    No cleaning until Maria comes back?

    Your Shailo
    Guest
    Your Shailo

    Is answered at the end of toisfos, Bova Metziah daf beis, עני המהפך בחררה

    is this for real
    Guest
    is this for real

    I can’r believe i’m reading this. some people in CH are struggling to put food on a table every day and especially for YomTov and this is the biggest issue this spoiled brat of a woman can complain about?
    Get real woman and clean your own house.

    Stop blaming
    Guest
    Stop blaming

    You couldve offered her a raise in advance special for,pesach cleaning time. Why should she put in hours of backbreaking labour with no extra reward. Also you dont own her and she can choose where to go.
    Signed
    Sick of people abusing their cleanin ladies.

    Sorry
    Guest
    Sorry

    This is ridiculous. I hate this attitude. You cannot “steal” a cleaning woman. She is a person who can choose who to work for and who not to work for. Someone else offered more money? You can either offer to pay more, too, or find someone else. (Or, gasp, even clean yourself!) It is awful when people band together to offer low prices only. Imagine being in a job where there is absolutely no room for growth, no opportunity to make more money? It’s miserable and not conducive to working one’s best. Everyone wants to know that if they work… Read more »

    Gave up cleaning help
    Guest
    Gave up cleaning help

    Was sick of training them in only to leave you. Then start again. Then they leave before yom tov.

    I never thought I could manage without a cleaner, especially since I work. But with the kids chipping in and a schedule, I’m so much happier now.

    I fired her
    Guest
    I fired her

    When my cleaning lady stopped coming before Pesach, I didn’t take her back after Pesach. And she was out of a job for that day, because the one who paid her more didn’t want her permanently. I wonder if she’ll fall for it again.

    Pesach cleaning lady
    Guest
    Pesach cleaning lady

    There is a simple solution to this very frustrsting & unfortunste thig… put 20c into a tin every day… it adds up to $1 a week without being too much of a burden
    Then tell your cleaning lady well in advsnce that you will give her $X (whatever additional you wish) an hour for Pesach cleaning on your own days… hatzlacho…this will be for next year…hopefully we will all be in Yerushalayim

    thanks
    Guest
    thanks

    agree ! this has been going on for too long!

    Rolling my eyes
    Guest
    Rolling my eyes

    I made 20 pesachs without cleaning ladies. Cut out the extraneous spring cleaning and stick to what’s halachically required and you will see that it’s a lot more manageable than you think. And while we’re at it lets stop with the abuse, overworking and underpaying cleaning ladies. If your neighbor is treating her better and paying her more no wonder she jumped ship. She’s your employee not your slave and has a right to work where she chooses.

    Confused
    Guest
    Confused

    1) You don’t own her. This article makes is sound like your neighbor took “something” from you… makes me sick

    2) Why are you mad at your neigbor but not your hire? if she doesn’t appreciate your year long commitment to her than you need to find someone who will. Call her and tell her if she doesn’t show when you need her most then she won’t have her job back.

    Calling the kettle black
    Guest
    Calling the kettle black

    Stop hiring illegals. Dont expect loyalty from an illegal worker.

    All said and done
    Guest
    All said and done

    What is a good mentchlich amount to pay our cleaning help.

    Pesach cleaning
    Guest
    Pesach cleaning

    You don’t say what you pay but where l come from it’s $25 an hour…for the majority it is just a dream to have pre -Pesach help… or any help !!! like a previous writer said cut out springcleaning… remember if you treat her like a mrntsh she eill respond in kind

    Your attitude
    Guest
    Your attitude

    The way you wrote your article instead of me thinking “hey she has a point” makes me think “what negative and terrible attitude-fly a kite!”
    You want to vent and let out your anger? -Job well done!
    You want to make a positive change? – Job FAILED!!!

    It’s all about packaging…
    The way you wrote it makes people defensive

    Agreed!
    Guest
    Agreed!

    Totally agree!

    @17
    Guest
    @17

    whether u think of this woman as spoiled or not, whether the cleaning lady has a right to work where she chooses… WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE MATTER AT HAND? The fact is that another woman is aware that by offering more to her friend’s cleaning lady, her friend will be stressed, left with no help,and yet she does so anyway. this is inexcusable. why is everyone bringing in other issues? so what if there are ppl in CH struggling to put food on the table- does that make such a person’s behavior excusable? This article is… Read more »

    Seriously?
    Guest
    Seriously?

    You know, having a cleaning lady isn’t a given. And one day, even if she only comes one day a week, won’t make or break your Pesach cleaning. Also, just BTW, many people, including some of those with big families and full time jobs, DON’T have a cleaning lady. So it’s possible to do without one. Besides for that, no one ‘stole’ her. She is her own person and makes her own decisions. She has no obligation to come to you instead of to your friend. Yes, you are the one hiring her. But if one day she is offered… Read more »

    to #1
    Guest
    to #1

    oh please
    i am hispanic too and i’m not offended
    calling all chabadniks mendel is racist? or jews moshe?

    this is getting rediculous
    Guest
    this is getting rediculous

    I come on this site to hear/ see news and this is top story … a ” stolen” cleaning lady??!!!
    I know someone in ch who absolutely freaks out when ever her cleaning lady doesn’t show, this women is 44 she crys like a baby , abuses her family , totally crazy ! I don’t have a cleaning lady , my husband and kids all pitch in and we get everything done with much laughter singing and dancing in the kitchen and most of all when their time comes to make pesach they’ll know how!

    MTL
    Guest
    MTL

    I’m sorry, but I honestly don’t understand. I would never trust a stranger with free range of my home as long as Hashem gives me the ability to do so (besides, it’s never how I would want it anyway).

    I work full time, so I do my cleaning on Sundays beginning just before Tu B’Shvat, one room a week with a couple of times in between for other stuff. Once you get used to it, it doesn’t really take all that much time.

    And get your kids involved, there’s no reason why they shouldn’t help around the house….

    want people to respect you?
    Guest
    want people to respect you?

    if you continue with an attitude this way how this person and that person is so called “stealing” your cleaning lady then obviously before you start accusing others that they are doing everything wrong… think before you speak and first work on yourself… im sure you are not all that innocent either
    oh and a good idea would be that instead of writing articles complaining that your cleaning lady didnt show up…maybe start cleaning?

    to number 13
    Guest
    to number 13

    ditto! best thing I ever did. they were making me lazy, my kids into brats and my husband broke!
    now we all pitch in and guess what the place is cleaner then it ever was with 30 hrs a week cleaner !

    Stealing any worker
    Guest
    Stealing any worker

    I know that the schools have a rule that they can’t hire someone working at another school without consent. If you want to hire someone else’s help ask the person who hired them first if they need them. It is wrong to go directly to the employee. When I saw that my neighbor was painting her house I asked her to let me know when she’s done before I hired the painter. The cleaning lady can ask for a raise on her own, I’m sure hard working people will be given raises.

    pesach is truly coming soon!!
    Guest
    pesach is truly coming soon!!

    Good luck to us all hard working ladies!

    Yes
    Guest
    Yes

    Agree with 32.A freilichan Erev Pesach!!!!

    Is that why Jews became Communists,  nebach?
    Guest
    Is that why Jews became Communists, nebach?

    It is well-known that during the Cantonist era, the wealthy and well-connected were able to get out of having their children drafted. This was done through bribes and other forms of influence.
    Now, those poor, helpless Jews, who lost their precious neshamos – how are they suppose to feel about that?

    Open Borders
    Guest
    Open Borders

    To all of the folks who want to pay a cleaning lady a wage so low that you’d never embarrass yourself by offering that low of a wage to a bochur: Your “demand” has brought in a “supply” of immigrant cleaning ladies and other manual laborers, but it has also brought in a certain percentage of immigrant terrorists entering through the same open borders that let in the immigrant cleaning ladies. If we paid at least minimum wage, we would not be dependent on open borders. There are plenty of unemployed or underemployed citizens in the US who are trustworthy,… Read more »

    She's 100% right
    Guest
    She's 100% right

    I own a store on Kingston Ave after training a worker for the longest time I find him working at another shop on the Avenue it’s just wrong pepole have no respect. but to do what’s good for them self when I met up with this worker that worked for me for 5 years he said he was offered more money

    Think of the cleaning lady.
    Guest
    Think of the cleaning lady.

    Think of the cleaning lady, she also needs to make a living. Why shouldn’t she get paid more? If you want her so much then tell her you will pay her more. I think it is selfish of you to prevent her from making more money because you want to keep her for yourself.

    Is a cleaning lady an object?
    Guest
    Is a cleaning lady an object?

    How can a human being steal another? I find this article repugnant – someone who cleans your mess for a living deserves respect as well as a fair wage. I live in Israel & my cleaning lady (she just started) is a young Jewish married mother – and she is frum. She cleans my toilets because a) I don’t want to; b) she does a far better job; c) she needs to put food on the table. I am appalled that this writer thinks she “owns” her “Maria.” Are we back owning slaves? My CL likes coming to me –… Read more »

    Schools have the same rule?
    Guest
    Schools have the same rule?

    That is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Maybe someone has convinced you that way, but in any normal school they have to give teachers a new contract every year. And if the teachers contract is up and chooses to go to another school, they are free to do so.

    After the teacher signed a contract and agreed to return for the next year, then it is not right to violate your contract and go to the other school. No different than violating any contract in any job.

    miryam swerdlov
    Guest
    miryam swerdlov

    i am embarrassed at the barrage. i shouldn’t read comments…. maybe i could because i have a cleaning lady…..why the hateful tone from people? why does it bother you if someone has help? so you are better, cleaner, more organized etc., but not all of us are, and we r not taking money from anyone to do this, when we couldn’t afford it, we didn’t get help, and when we BH could, we took help. I am sure that the people that could, help out families that don’t have for Pesach. And i am sure the writer of this article… Read more »

    #40 Hurray!! Someone finally says it right
    Guest
    #40 Hurray!! Someone finally says it right

    Thank you Miryam Swerdlov.
    I’m behind you 100% and you are right.
    This is not socialism.
    If someone can, or saves to do what he feels he needs, why should others belittle him/her and call her spoiled?

     cleaning lady is a person who
    Guest
    cleaning lady is a person who

    Has rights to choose and take better job and better benefits ….your friend /neighbor has right to hire anyone at any rate ….
    Yes , you are upset ….but cleaning lady is a person , give her benifits and she will stay by you ….

    Yasher Koach Mrs Swerdlov
    Guest
    Yasher Koach Mrs Swerdlov

    Excellent comment.
    -Shainy Peysin

    anynomous
    Guest
    anynomous

    A person has a right to go and clean where they want to, nobody owns anybody, maybe you should of payed her more money, just like any other job

    #26 you need to use appropriate comparisons
    Guest
    #26 you need to use appropriate comparisons

    Lubavitchers – Mendel – Jews – moshe
    Is NOT the same as cleaning ladies are all Hispanics .
    While many a cleaning help may be Hispanic to generalize is be ignorant.
    A better example would be when my banker Shloime called in sick? Or when moshe picked up pennies. Stereotypes are real- Hispanics are not cleaning help- some cleaning help might be Hispanic.
    Col change the title

    to number 4
    Guest
    to number 4

    Individuals don’t have to issue 1099’s.
    Unless you have a “business” that is paying her…

    to miryam swerdlov
    Guest
    to miryam swerdlov

    Yes, you are right….IF the cleaning lady has a contract. If she is a ‘freelancer” and works at 6 different houses each week, then….no. If the cleaning lady comes to you once or twice a week, and also works at 5 other houses, she is her own boss and can dump you anytime she wants. Without your permission. And if she gets a job offer, she can choose whether to work more hours or dump an existing customer. Just like every other freelancer. Listen, I write for people. Right now I have one client who asks for daily stuff. And… Read more »

    From the author
    Guest
    From the author

    Thank you Miryam Swerdlow and everyone else who supported me here. I should have made a few facts clear: I am a bubby. I don’t have the physical strength to do my own heavy cleaning. And I have no one at home who can do it. Do I have the money for cleaning help? Not really, but I pay for it anyway because I don’t see any alternative. My cleaning lady comes a few hours a week (too few for a 1099, I think) and gets paid the regular amount that people pay in the neighborhood. I give her a… Read more »

    hhaha
    Guest
    hhaha

    its funny that there are 48 articles over a silly article that takes 30 seconds ot read.
    moving right along….

    Very fine of you
    Guest
    Very fine of you

    Mrs. Swerdlov to stick your neck out for someone else! Really impressed, especially after reading the explanation from the author! The bottom line is, what does Halacha say about this? Can someone who knows please spell it out for everyone?

    Generalizing a name
    Guest
    Generalizing a name

    I once had a “mashpiah” in Morristown say that all girls in sem should learn Spanish to speak to their cleaning ladies. I think the stereotypical east coast cleaning lady is of Hispanic/Latino origin. Saying Maria isn’t the end of the world.

    Lol
    Guest
    Lol

    First world problems….

    Looks like that all the 'beautiful' comments are coming from these who do it...
    Guest
    Looks like that all the 'beautiful' comments are coming from these who do it...

    The lady has a point. Be mentchlich and considerate.

    missing the point
    Guest
    missing the point

    Most of these comments are missing the point. #24 and Miriam Swerdlov: well said. Don’t judge the author without knowing any details. After her explanation you see that all those comments were not valid. And the point is not whether to have a cleaning lady or not; it’s not about how to keep her; and it’s not about the cleaning lady…
    It’s selfish of those who bribe her, very inconsiderate and by doing so, they are hiking up the price. How can anyone feel it’s ok to do this??!!

    Business Lesson
    Guest
    Business Lesson

    No intrest in addressing the disgrace that has lined this. You are to be a light on to the nations (not a back stabing sorority) No back to business. An employer should pay only what is required for the person to live, since any more including raises actually discourages production psychologically. (read the studies) What you can’t do you can’t do but what you can do you don’t have to do. I don’t know where but I’m sure it talks about this somewhere in all the business laws (halacha) that were given to us as our guide. And chassid does… Read more »

    Racheli
    Guest
    Racheli

    Right on! I had no choice but to hire help – pregnant, with young children and a husband who worked late nights (and therefore could not help me) we paid for cleaning help. If someone offers her more money for your day the rightful thing is for her to come to you and tell you, and give you a chance to pay that amount! I loved my cleaning lady, she was thorough and taught me a lot about how to run my kitchen, best places to store xyz, and she was so sweet with my kids! I gave her lunch… Read more »

    Neighbor
    Guest
    Neighbor

    I love it when my neighbor asks me if she can borrow my “Goyah” 1. I don’t own anyone 2. She’s called a cleaning lady 3. I clean my own toilets (i know shocker right? Gets them every time.) Pretty much #47 sums it up. They are freelancers. Offer them more and better treatment and they’ll stay. Otherwise they will leave. Sorry Miriam Swerdlov it’s a free market, you can work for whoever you want especially with such an off the books job. Have a kosher and freilachen Pesach.

    oy vey
    Guest
    oy vey

    why don’t you simply out bid your neighbor?

    this is the stupidest thing ive ever read
    Guest
    this is the stupidest thing ive ever read

    ok 2 things
    1. when your parents told you as a kid to be nice to all people- they didnt just mean JEWISH FRUM PEOPLE.
    2. Capitalism is a beautiful thing. Pay your help more and they’ll show up. Unless of course Bernie Sanders wins the presidency in which case she’ll probably stop showing up because she can make more working at Mcdonalds or Walmart.

    She is ur cleaning lady
    Guest
    She is ur cleaning lady

    Not your slave. You don’t own her and no one can STEAL her she’s her own person and can choose on her own where she wants to work. Admit it if someone offered YOU more you’d probably also go and think abt the person “stealing” her maybe she also needs her that day? Wherever went giving someone the benefit of the doubt people?

    misunderstanding
    Guest
    misunderstanding

    I personally have a lady who i 1st called the balabusta & she oked it but then after a year she chose to work for me not for the original lady. Am i to blame that she found my hs easier perhaps. I would never go over to someone elses help wihtout addressing her employer first!!

    No 48
    Guest
    No 48

    You wrote so beautifully. Maybe some Maxhon Chana generous kind girls can spare some time to help a bubby, get paid, have a hot lunch, get pre yomtov experience for when they iyh run their own homes, have lovely interaction from a local bubby and poss be invited to a yomtov or Shabbos meal too! The best of both worlds.
    Have a beautiful yomtov!

    It's a job like anything else
    Guest
    It's a job like anything else

    You want a cleaning lady – pay for it! It costs money to have someone do a service for you. It costs money for dry cleaning It costs money for take out and to dine It costs money to send your kids to school It costs money to take a cab It costs money to do have any service If cleaning help is Important for you- tjen you pay. My time is worth more than they money I pay a cleaning lady per hour. So I happily pay her to clean my house. I given her 5 raises in the… Read more »

    ASK THE raV
    Guest
    ASK THE raV

    Why do we abide by the Torah
    Why do we have the TOrah.
    So we know how to behave.
    I am not a RAV i WANT TO HEAR WHAT THE HALACHA SAYS ON THIS.

    From Rabbi Braun's Halacha2Go lesson
    Guest
    From Rabbi Braun's Halacha2Go lesson

    “For his part, an employer may not directly recruit a person working elsewhere, causing another employer to lose a worker.”
    — Halacha2Go, #569

    To #1
    Guest
    To #1

    Seriously?? That’s what you care about!!

    suri
    Guest
    suri

    Since we are on the subject of having a cleaning lady, I don’t understand how some of these young women that don’t work and are on public assistance could afford to have a person come to their house to clean for Pesach or any other time, I work everyday and I can not afford some one to come to my house and clean my apartment, plus I like to clean my self because I know how I like my apartment to be cleaned.

    Respect
    Guest
    Respect

    I live in a community with many frum Jews and many who share cleaning ladies. Some deal directly with the cleaning ladies and disregard their friends’ schedules and some first talk to their friends before approaching their cleaning lady for more hours. This article doesn’t bring proof that the neighbor actually paid more but it’s self understood that a cleaning lady will opt to work for the house that may be simpler or give her more hours altogether or on a consistent basis. The article also doesn’t say if the author called the neighbor to discuss. Very possible that the… Read more »

    Ethical Issue
    Guest
    Ethical Issue

    The ethical issue raised in this article does not focus on the “rights” of the cleaning lady but rather on the behavior of someone knowingly ( implied by” neighbor” and who has had this cleaning lady on a paricular day of each week) enticing the cleaning lady away from the author who she knows always has her on Tuesdays, and of all times, before Pesach. “Hasagas Gvul”,plain old “breach of ethical behavior”? I didn’t hear the anger in this woman’s voice, I heard the unjustified hurt.

    My two cents
    Guest
    My two cents

    I have like very little money and kept losing my cleaning help. I incrementally kept on having to raise rates but finally have same person for past 7-8 weeks. A record. Just like “happy wife, happy life”, same thing with cleaning help. If she’ll be happy, you will be happy.

    Can't believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Guest
    Can't believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I couldn’t even finish reading all the comments because I just got to upset!!!! Are you all seriously sticking up for the cleaning lady and for the spoiled rich person who can afford to pay more money? You should be ashamed of yourself. All this woman is saying is don’t take away my cleaning lady. Yes she will surely go to whoever offers her more money regardless of how well you treat her. Every yiddishe household needs a cleaning lady almost as important as other basic necessities especially before pesach. Just because you have more money does not give you… Read more »

    To 4 and 46
    Guest
    To 4 and 46

    None of the cleaning ladies want your 1099, if anything they are entitled to a w2 with all the rights of an employee.

    Yay for Miryam!
    Guest
    Yay for Miryam!

    Many of us senior citizens pay for cleaning help because we have to, not because we want to. It’s upsetting when you treat your cleaning lady well and keep her on a regular basis, and then just before Pesach she naively accepts a job from a neighbor thinking that the neighbor will keep her permanently.
    The neighbor pays her more and dumps her right after Pesach. I know because this has happened to me. Now I am wiser and give her a bonus before Pesach.

    YIDDEN ARE ONE FAMILY!
    Guest
    YIDDEN ARE ONE FAMILY!

    I have a very good cleaning lady that comes once a week to me, full day, cleans and does laundry, and yes it saves me and my sanity and helps me be a better mother and wife! And i dont know how i would manage without her. I know that she works all other days by other families, one who is an almana!! I really needed her to come additional days for pesach cleaning, so i asked her to come every sunday, starting 6 weeks before pesach, i offered her a couple dollars more, but i didnt dare even think… Read more »

    Left NY
    Guest
    Left NY

    I am a great grandmother who cleans for Pesach myself. My holy daughter “lends ” and gets upset the same way. I didn’t bring her up this way. Influenced by the place she lives.
    You don’t own anyone and overwork them anyway.

    write this to your neighbor
    Guest
    write this to your neighbor

    Instead of publicizing this, write a private letter to your neighbor.
    Use your brain.

    @47
    Guest
    @47

    When I get a better offer, I will say very nicely, “R., it was great working with you; I will finish out the week/ two weeks, but then I will have to go.” Maybe I’ll give him a month. Probably not. This is the issue. Not that her cleaning lady gave notice – she just didn’t show up. No notice. A decent person calls in sick if they are. You can’t stay home from work and a week later come back and tell your boss, hey I was sick with the flu. You call so a temp can be hired… Read more »

    Maybe she was deported?
    Guest
    Maybe she was deported?

    How do you know that she wasn’t deported? Use citizens, not illegals, and you won’t have this problem.

    Why charge 15 an hour when we make 19-35 an hour, only some make 50?
    Guest
    Why charge 15 an hour when we make 19-35 an hour, only some make 50?
    ......
    Guest
    ......

    i wonder what trump would have to say about this!!

    THIS IS ABOUT DECEPTION AND GOING BEHIND ONE'S BACK
    Guest
    THIS IS ABOUT DECEPTION AND GOING BEHIND ONE'S BACK

    this is not about the cleaning lady leaving her for more money. that is a separate issue. it is about her neighbor enticing the cleaning lady for more money behind the other lady’s back..and the second lady being sly about it..that is the gist of the complaint. its the deception of her neighbor that she is complaining about and hurts the most..what maria does or doesn’t do, is a separate issue..its called being sensitive to OTHERS needs and not going behind backs and not just thinking what is good for you and getting it at the expense of others.
    ..

    There is a toisfos
    Guest
    There is a toisfos

    that deals with this EXACT issue Dibur hamaschil Oni hamhepech bchororo. Toisfos CLEARLY says that it 1000 percent not allowed to take away a worker that usually works for someone else by offering them more money UNLESS it is in a case of a melamed that is better.

    To # 32
    Guest
    To # 32

    I agree with you! Instead of relying on your ” Maria” all us hard working ladies get to work and do it ourselves! Number 32 we gotta get together and knock sense into ppl who are relying on their “Maria”
    Good luck to all you hard working woman out there doing ther best to bring in peach :):):)

    If you're a Frum jew
    Guest
    If you're a Frum jew

    this is the Torahs guideline…

    “For his part, an employer may not directly recruit a person working elsewhere, causing another employer to lose a worker.”
    — Halacha2Go, #569

    Senior citizens and cleaning ladies...
    Guest
    Senior citizens and cleaning ladies...

    If you don’t have little kids and people aat at the table, why do you need to Pesach clean anything other than the kitchen and your dining room table and chairs? The rest of the house should be easy peasy because there is no chametz there…and the kitchen and table aren’t shayach to clean until just before the chag itself. So why the cleaning lady in the beginning of NIssan?
    Or maybe I’m missing something?

    #10 and then some - have you no shame?!
    Guest
    #10 and then some - have you no shame?!

    Get help?! The other kind! Just because one man is sick or dying dies not mean the rest of the world stops or lessens their living! Nebach for all the foolish comments labeling this writer as spoiled or whatnot. She points out an extremely valid and ongoing problem that takes place in ALL Frum communities sadly, maybe especially in NY. Her motives are not a fancy and primped house (or she’d be having her own lady all week if so “spoiled”…), rather a clean and chametz free house for Pesach. Y’all have NO idea how many kids she has, if… Read more »

    TY Mrs.Swerdlov
    Guest
    TY Mrs.Swerdlov

    The reason this is posted HERE, is to make a point to our own community members who are doing something wrong. Paying a higher rate, then dumping the cleaning lady after Pesach can hardly be called treating her nicely! Yes, we should pay more, and for many of us, we wish we could pay much more, but the market rate and our own finances dictated a certain range. OF course we understand that a cleaning lady will want to go somewhere that pays more, and we should try to give a bit more for this time of year, or give… Read more »

    Post your NAMES please?
    Guest
    Post your NAMES please?

    I wish people would be forced to post in true names on this site. It would possibly curb the angry, judgemental and hateful (perhaps jealous) comments, and it would also help me out immensely when it comes time to my kids shidduchim. No I’m not kidding. You show your essence here even if you do so anonymously. Or perhaps especially because you do so anonymously. I hope your sons and daughters don’t hear you speak this ill and judgementaly of others in life… But who am I kidding… You probably don’t even know ‘who you are’ when I’m referring to… Read more »

    Having a cleaning lady
    Guest
    Having a cleaning lady

    I didn’t have much money but I am not the best at keeping an organized home. I put a letter in a book of the Rebbe once asking if I should get a cleaning pady and the answer was about an enemy’s donkey under its burden. I was under the burden of keeping a clean home and yes. I needed help, so b’ezras Hashem I got it. Hashem blesses the home if the wife is happy. Boruch Hashem, soon after then my husband got a raise.

    Judgement much??
    Guest
    Judgement much??

    Jealous nisht-farginners. Maybe she has cleaning help bc shes disabled? Pregnant? Works full time? Sick? Or just lucky!??! Jealous people are gross.

    #2 the point of this article is where people KNOWINGLY poach/recruit/employ workers that werr supposed to be working somewhere. This is Halachically unacceptable and wrong

    #3. This is why I NEVER give out my help to share with friends!

    to #85
    Guest
    to #85

    Everyone is entitled to a clean house before pesach. You are no more entitled bec you are younger.

    and YES, you are missing something!

    The message
    Guest
    The message

    Did u know that a lady who had a few kids very close in age, was by yechidus, and she shared her struggles with the rebbe, she needed a Break!! And the rebbe told her that she should hire help….!! We have seen the rebbe treat each and every individual with dignity!!! There is a video available ONLINE of the rebbetzins cleaning lady….. coming to the rebbe by dollars after 22 shevat!! The cleaning lady was crying to the rebbe for how much she misses, the rebbetzin!! Ofcourse we should treat our help nicely. The author is addressing a different… Read more »

    Kudos to Miriam Swerdlov
    Guest
    Kudos to Miriam Swerdlov

    I’m in shock with these vicious and ignorant comments!!This is not about the cleaning lady. This is about the neighbor that was selfish and went behind her back. I was always careful and taught my children never to ask a friend or neighbors cleaning lady without consulting them first.
    I’m really sorry that the author had to justify her reasons for having a cleaning lady.
    All those holier than thou people who are attacking the writer just seem meanspirited!!

    ha ha
    Guest
    ha ha

    nothing like a bit of pesach cleaning to get the woman all over the world in a tizz wazz!!

    Chana
    Guest
    Chana

    Can’t read so many comments so probably No-one will read mine but why, again, is everyone freaking out. The author is right, she has a point. You’re opinions and frustrations are irrelevant. Before I hire any cleaning lady I ask her who she’s working for. And once, when I found out it was a chasseedish Jewish lady, I refused to hire her. I wouldn’t have extra help in the account of her stiffing another jew and I told her so very clearly. So why all the anger ( really? Racist for calling her Maria? And is it so Terrible for… Read more »

    Chana
    Guest
    Chana

    Can’t read so many comments so probably No-one will read mine but why, again, is everyone freaking out. The author is right, she has a point. You’re opinions and frustrations are irrelevant. Before I hire any cleaning lady I ask her who she’s working for. And once, when I found out it was a chasseedish Jewish lady, I refused to hire her. I wouldn’t have extra help in the account of her stiffing another jew and I told her so very clearly. So why all the anger ( really? Racist for calling her Maria? And is it so Terrible for… Read more »

    Not stealing
    Guest
    Not stealing

    The Halacha says to follow minhag hamedina. That means: With contract, Employer holds the rights. No contract: employee holds the rights. There is no hasogas gvul here.

    cold winter
    Guest
    cold winter

    When its someone else’s its a free market when its my cleaning help how dear

    Oh Please
    Guest
    Oh Please

    Love it. Nothing more entertaining than listening to the self professed “Republicans” and “Conservatives” of Crown Heights yapping on about who stealing who’s illegal alien.

    Maybe if you could be bothered to pay these poor souls a living wage, instead of exploiting them and treating them like chattel, “Maria” would be a bit more loyal.

    practical
    Guest
    practical

    Find out who is leaving for Pesach and can share their cleaning help days with you!

    to # 97
    Guest
    to # 97

    I think we need a Rov to validate your point. The bottom line is, even for Mentchlichkiet, human decency sake, I’m quite sure this is not the way of a Chossid or a frum Jew! What are we teaching our kids when we are insensitve to others needs?

    To #101
    Guest
    To #101

    Before we talk about cleaning ladies, I think there’s a lot, a LOT more work that needs to be done about nbeing sensitive to others’ needs. Cleaning ladies are the tip of the iceberg, and honestly, she can do what she wants, including quit beofre Pesach and find another job – no “stealing” involved.

    How about being nicer to other frum Jews in general – saying good Shabbos, not asking for pictures in shidduchim and then saying no because the person isn’t photogenic enough, not judging based on weight, helping other frum Jews find jobs, etc.

    cold winter
    Guest
    cold winter

    It is a lost cause change begins with yourself stop preaching this is crown heights get used to it

    My teacher in seminary taught us....
    Guest
    My teacher in seminary taught us....

    “Im willing to share, everything, except MY HUSBAND and CLEANING LADY!!!

    MENTCHLECHKEIT
    Guest
    MENTCHLECHKEIT

    I am quite shocked at the outpouring of venom against the writer of this article. The presumptions that the cleaning woman was taken advantage of, underpaid, disrespected etc was at least laid to rest by the writer’s clarification. It is totally unfair and Halachically wrong to poach someone elses worker, help, by offering more money. This is a form of bribery from which we are told to stay away and form of hasogas gevul. It is so inconsiderate to prepare for your own Pesach at the expense of someone else. I would not feel comfortable sitting down at a Seder… Read more »

    i agree with 77
    Guest
    i agree with 77

    Someone who has made a verbal contract with you and doesn’t keep it – isn’t someone I would trust in my house with my kids or my property. And a real friend who was raised properly by their parents would have called and made arrangements with the other people using the maids services. Not nice and not mentchlach, but then again some people have no manners or consideration of others feelings and their wants and needs supersede others. Its not a good way to raise kids . Especially when they copy parents behavior

    hopeful
    Guest
    hopeful

    this is only a continuation of house stealing, and the likes. it falls into the same category, yet worse. houses are hard to come by and a goya is too, but not at the same cost of hundreds and thousands of dollars.

    psychologist
    Guest
    psychologist

    It’s easy/convenient to be a keyboard warrior, but let’s see you confront your neighbor in a respectful way (like #76 said, write a letter). That takes effort, midos, brain power. How do you know that next yom tov you need a maid, this won’t happen again? and then again, we’ll have a thousand yentas rubbernecking/commenting on something they really don’t care about in real life. This article is like a car wreck you see on the highway, you have sympathy / interest for no more than two seconds, and then you drive on and forget that it ever happened. Write… Read more »

    "Use Maria..."
    Guest
    "Use Maria..."

    Good point on the article, but you shouldn’t look at people that way. You are not Trump/Hillary:

    “You, my nameless neighbor, who use Maria on a different day of the week”

    From the author, again
    Guest
    From the author, again

    “Nameless neighbor” was supposed to mean I don’t have any idea who the neighbor is! If I knew, I would have spoken to them directly instead of writing here!!! I have learned a lot from writing this article: the importance of crystal-clear writing so people won’t misunderstand, the importance of judging every person favorably, and so much more. A friend, from a frum community outside of Crown Heights, hired cleaning help from a non-Jewish agency this week and the gentile owner commented, “So many people take away cleaning ladies from others, and I tell them they are hurting their own… Read more »

    Most of u are NOT ehrlich NOR mentchlich.  Shame!
    Guest
    Most of u are NOT ehrlich NOR mentchlich. Shame!

    Most of you missed the point: ehrlich, decent, mentchlich and dignified behavior that Halacha demands, if u care to reread & follow the Halacha, quoted by “#84” and others, regarding the complaint. It’s not about the employee. It’s clearly about not hurting an employer by luring away his employees. It’s far deeper than getting sidetracked with pay cuz pay is NOT the issue here. Again: The issue is hurting an employer by luring away his employees. That is hakachically not allowed. Period. The Rebbe spoke about Mosdos not taking away staff from each other for a reason. To teach us… Read more »

    not belong to you
    Guest
    not belong to you

    You can’t claim someone stole your maid because its not yours no mater how real it seems been that way forever, but truth is it belongs to hashem, see rashi bireishis
    כל הארץ של הרב”ה היא הוא בראה והוא נטלה ממך ונתנה לה

    to # 1,10, and 12
    Guest
    to # 1,10, and 12

    i agree with you 100%!!!!!!!! you dont own no cleaning lady, nor do you have the right to be rasict! though i do think its a bit inconsiderate of yyour neighbor. But, truth be told i dont know the REAL story so i can only talk based on what this article says

    Agree with author and Mrs swerdlov
    Guest
    Agree with author and Mrs swerdlov

    It’s human decency to respect the one who hired and trained her first and consult with her b4 going directly to the worker
    U can kick and scream all u want that it’s OK- but mentchlichkeit it is not!!
    Think of others, step in their shoes….this self centeredness that u can hire anyone based in nothing is cruel

    dan le'kaf zchus
    Guest
    dan le'kaf zchus

    It seems to me that both the writer as well as many of the comments have provided a lesson in “dan le’kaf zchus”. All have made assumptions and judgments about the actions and attitudes of others without knowing many pertinent details. To the author, I say this: In the hypothetical scenario that one of your “neighbors” knowingly approached and offered the cleaning lady more money in order to leave you and work for her instead, I agree that this sounds wrong. (Although, on the other hand, I put myself in the worker’s situation, and if this happened to me as… Read more »

    Not racist
    Guest
    Not racist

    Umm…maybe her name is really Maria? So why does that make it racist?

    Agree with author and Mrs swerdlov
    Guest
    Agree with author and Mrs swerdlov

    It’s human decency to respect the one who hired and trained her first and consult with her b4 going directly to the worker
    U can kick and scream all u want that it’s OK- but mentchlichkeit it is not!!
    Think of others, step in their shoes….this self centeredness that u can hire anyone based in nothing is cruel

    the cleaning lady being herself
    Guest
    the cleaning lady being herself

    100% that she is herself
    however as soon as she commits herself, she must let you know before she ditches you

    X