ב"ה
Thursday, 17 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 25, 2024

Ma, Can I Go to Crown Heights For Sukkos?

Rabbi Mordechai Schurder, Menahel of Klurman Mesivta in Miami, Florida, wrote a letter to parents about their sons spending Sukkos in Crown Heights - unsupervised. Full Story

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To menahel
September 25, 2023 9:57 pm

Just because some bochurim go for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that everyone else does.

he is not saying that they go for the wrong reason
Reply to  To menahel
September 26, 2023 2:51 am

but sometimes the “wrong reasons” find them
CH is defintiely a place where someone needs to come for the right intentions AND be vigilant once they are here as in who they are hanging around with and what environment they will be going into and what will be happening there

to everyone
Reply to  To menahel
September 26, 2023 10:17 am

don’t ever drink alcohol
don’t ever use substances

Are you nuts?!!
Reply to  to everyone
September 26, 2023 1:08 pm

You’re saying we should completely abolish saying Lechaim, something that the Rebbeim instituted? You’re insane!!

mkay slow down
Reply to  Are you nuts?!!
September 26, 2023 7:38 pm

……sounds like an addict

Say l'chaim
Reply to  Are you nuts?!!
September 26, 2023 7:48 pm

You can say l’chaim on water…

purpose
Reply to  Say l'chaim
September 27, 2023 9:46 pm

purpose of lchaim at fabrengen is to open you up. be more open

(I Beleive)

Um
Reply to  Are you nuts?!!
September 26, 2023 8:33 pm

Im actually probably more on your team in approach to lchaim then they original comment, but the Rebbe did not “institute” saying LCHAIM.

The Rebbe perpetuated the age old minhag chassidim.
And in fact DECREED no more than 4 ounces for those under 40.

correction
Reply to  Um
September 28, 2023 12:43 am

it was no more than 4 lechaims equaling no more than 86ml (2.9 ounces)

really...
Reply to  Are you nuts?!!
September 27, 2023 8:00 pm

drinking mashke by a farbrengen isnt called drinking alchohol its called saying leacaim.

Kiddush
Reply to  to everyone
September 27, 2023 6:39 am

How do you propose we make kiddush!
Your idea is too extreme. Alcohol has a place inn yiddishkeit.

grape
Reply to  Kiddush
September 27, 2023 10:14 am

use grape juice instead

grape juice??
Reply to  grape
September 27, 2023 2:26 pm

in 5738 the rebbe said we make kiddush on wine

maybe read one of Rabbi Abraham Twerski's books
Reply to  Kiddush
September 27, 2023 10:14 am

alcohol is poison

Bachur
September 25, 2023 10:05 pm

Very true

Pritzus
Reply to  Bachur
September 26, 2023 1:54 am

I believe this is the reason the Vaad Shmiras HaTznius was founded. ‎Follow the Vaad Shmiras Hatznius channel on WhatsApp: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Va9eHfQLY6d1iNl7rT2u

Wow
Reply to  Pritzus
September 26, 2023 4:39 am

Really great channel everyone should join

Why is WhatsApp still the status quo
Reply to  Pritzus
September 26, 2023 12:13 pm

Channels is not a safe place why are you on channels,
In fact people should be getting rid of WhatsApp
Yes channels has adult content

Its bad
Reply to  Why is WhatsApp still the status quo
September 26, 2023 1:13 pm

Whatsapp does not allow it, yet theres no way for them to stop it
Unfortunately kids will be bumping into the stuff now

Switch to signal
Reply to  Its bad
September 26, 2023 2:49 pm

Signals is almost identical to WhatsApp, the looks are a little different but feature wise very similar

solutions
Reply to  Bachur
September 26, 2023 10:32 am

maybe everyone should focus a lot of their energy on ending the shidduch crisis. If you’re ready to start dating at 18, why not?

Yes
Reply to  solutions
September 26, 2023 1:45 pm

I agree %100. The crisis is a real thing, and even if not for the crisis, by beginning to date at 18 you can be mekayem a hora’ah of chazal “Ben shomeh esrie l’chupah”. Therefor it is a very proper thing for bochrim to begin dating at 18. This was something that I’ve always noticed that the poilishers have figured out better than Chabad.

Amazing!
September 25, 2023 10:10 pm

About time a menahel come out and tell the clueless parents of what actually happens on the streets late at night.

it does not only happen late at night
Reply to  Amazing!
September 26, 2023 2:52 am

moshiach NOW

Focusing on a the symotoms not the cause
Reply to  Amazing!
September 26, 2023 6:03 pm

Maybe if you actually listen to your children, treated them with respect, gave them the opportunity to pursue healthy outlets, and invested into education things would be better. This article is excatly the problem with chabad and its outlook on its teenagers. We dont judge people who come into our chabad houses but in our own homes you treat your own children like outsiders.

it's got nothing to do with judging
Reply to  Focusing on a the symotoms not the cause
September 27, 2023 2:18 am

where did you get that idea? it has to do with keeping our youth (and adults btw) away from things that can drag them in a direction that is not healthy or appropriate and to help guide them to do the right thing

Agree
Reply to  Focusing on a the symotoms not the cause
September 27, 2023 6:40 am

Parents should create an atmosphere at home that is conducive for their kids to be open.

To Rabbi Mordechai Schurder
September 25, 2023 10:11 pm

Thank you so much, rabbi. I am so happy that someone finally decided to address the terrible problem that has been going on in our community!

to rabbi schurder a question
September 25, 2023 10:18 pm

in the 80s and 90s, would your advice to everyone had been to not send bochurim to crown heights because at Simchas Bais Hashoeva, girls and boys mixed and substances were present?

Errr... YES
Reply to  to rabbi schurder a question
September 26, 2023 1:17 am

I lived on Crown street for over 30 years from mid 1980’s. And things even then were BAD! Drugs, alcohol, free mixing, vomiting in the street, noise, complete disregard for any decency, I could go on. Of course not all bochurim and girls behaved like this but a significant number did. We all knew these visitors weren’t coming for the “spiritual” experience – they came to hit Macy’s, B&H and other stores. Every day I’d see teens sleeping it off in gardens, hanging out in public and private succahs, smoking, and staggering around drunk or hungover. And those were the… Read more »

btw this is not only about SImchas Bais HAShoeva
Reply to  to rabbi schurder a question
September 26, 2023 2:54 am

May Hashem help all of us young and old do the right thing

Crown Heightser
September 25, 2023 10:23 pm

Thank You for bringing this up! I want to point out something else. The amount of drugs being passed around. Halevai every one would sit in 770 all day. but the reality is that from the hundred of people that come to spend Tishrei with the Rebbe there is unfortunately some people that come for other reasons. ESPECIALLY SIMCHAS TORAH! Sadly this stuff is legal now. Parents, I beg you do not send your teens unsupervised. Residents of the Shechuna, If you see something SAY SOMETHING! Yes, Kindly go over to the underaged person and tell them to stop etc.… Read more »

Easier said than done the young adults don't care
Reply to  Crown Heightser
September 26, 2023 1:15 am

Last Purim – I went to Shuk Machane Yehuda to see if all the hype about what goes on between Sem girls and Lub bochurim was true or exaggerated. For context, I am a married woman. I was horrified to see what was going on. Not only was it not exaggerated – it was under-reported! Our (Chabad/Crown Heights) girls and boys were mingling. OK. Nothing physically dangerous with that. (Yes, I know the obvious ruchnius and other problems that can arise) One may say…Family friends, they know siblings, innocent Purim fun, etc. Unfortunately, it wasn’t innocent. I won’t name the… Read more »

A sem girl
Reply to  Easier said than done the young adults don't care
September 26, 2023 1:46 am

Israel is a whole nother story

dont be naive
Reply to  Easier said than done the young adults don't care
September 26, 2023 2:59 am

this may be true what you saw but unfortunately this happens in other kehillos as well
how do you know where each girl or boy is from
and there are other places unfortunately to do this besides teh shuk
also-at the same time there are BH many, many boys and girls doing the right thing and it is important to mention that as well

Imam Shamil
Reply to  dont be naive
September 28, 2023 12:56 am

it actually better that they go somewhere else to do it
this is because the relationship is less likely to continue and they show yiras tatty and mummy

By girls
Reply to  Easier said than done the young adults don't care
September 26, 2023 7:46 am

Lol believe me there are PLENTY of BY girls doing all kinds of things. People are people. In every group there are some and doesn’t necessarily mean anything about the whole.
As a By graduate myself – They make sure to do it quietly, otherwise those people are fully “off the derech” in which case you really wouldn’t notice.

Granted....
Reply to  By girls
September 26, 2023 12:59 pm

In every community there are those who fall to temptation. עניי עירך קודמים – ie, let’s worry about our own. The situation is not ok, and our sems/yeshivas could do better.

Precisely!
Reply to  Easier said than done the young adults don't care
September 26, 2023 5:28 pm

And this is why I sent my very Chabad Lubavitch daughter to a non-chabad seminary. After visiting Israel and seeing the atmosphere mentioned above, I know I made the right call.

see the Rebbes general directive
Reply to  Precisely!
September 27, 2023 2:19 am

on this matter

Realistically speaking it is not so easy
Reply to  Crown Heightser
September 26, 2023 2:55 am

to supervise a teen unless they are at home sitting near you

Agree, however...
Reply to  Crown Heightser
September 27, 2023 6:53 am

You are scaring people away. Although you may be correct, you as well as the many other people who share this sentiment are painting a false picture. Of course there is bad, as there in everything (zeh leumas zeh oso elokim), but it is outweighed by the good. If the bochur is going with the right intentions then he will have a very easy time only being in a kosher atmosphere. There is so much that is only beneficial, and you can spend a whole tishrei engrossed in good, gaining immensly. These articles spin a dark web in the mind… Read more »

This is really scary!
Reply to  Crown Heightser
September 27, 2023 10:38 pm

Not only are these legal drugs dangerous especially for kids who’s minds are still developing , they can be laced with lethal drugs!!!! It’s an epidemic. Please children amd teens reading this, don’t touch any street drugs. Ever.

100%
September 25, 2023 10:30 pm

Exactly!!!

Annonymous
September 25, 2023 10:34 pm

What about the l’chaims at the fabrengens?

Yes!!
Reply to  Annonymous
September 26, 2023 1:47 am

Those were the substances he was referring to.

Indeed
Reply to  Annonymous
September 26, 2023 9:57 pm

Every person in a position of authority should take upon themself at this moment to eliminate or at least limit the amount of alcohol being consumed in our community. Succos is a great time to start. You have an achrayus to protect our youth

100% on target
September 25, 2023 10:35 pm

I live in Crown Heights and hosted guest. I can attest to the truth of Rabbi Schurder’s comments and observations. There’s lots of going on outside, in alleys, in some unsupervised homes etc.
I’ve advised some parents not to send their teenage kids without adults supervision, even through their kids are “good chassidishe” kids.
ודי למבין

Mechanech
September 25, 2023 10:36 pm

I have been saying this for years. What tishrei in crown heights has become is very disturbing and concerning. The number of young people who are thrust into unwholesome situations, unwilling or willingly, is astounding. The mental and physical health of your loved ones should be of paramount importance, and if you choose to send your children, both you and they should understand the possible pitfalls.

consider the upside
Reply to  Mechanech
September 28, 2023 12:33 am

although there are many things that can happen in tishrei that is problematic, and it can have a bad affect on bochrim, there are many upsides of tishrei in crown heights. as a participant of many late night farbrengens in ch, i have been greatly affected positively. consider that

Anonymous
September 25, 2023 10:38 pm

I don’t agree with this, supervision does not end up well, if a kid is going to be smoking weed or meeting girls they will do it either way, supervision will just cause resentment and a feeling that the parents don’t trust them which makes them want to do these things more, if a parent speaks it over maturely with a kid generally the kid will feel trusted and not be inclined to do these things.

Helivie it would be so simple
Reply to  Anonymous
September 26, 2023 12:04 am

If only we could speak to our children and they’d act like they live in a bubble

Yes.. that’s the way it is
Reply to  Helivie it would be so simple
September 26, 2023 7:10 pm

A parent’s responsibility and zchus is taking care of and educating their children according to their values and beliefs. Once children start doing things independently and making decisions of their own it is healthy and responsible of a parent to let go of restrictions they had on their child. If a parent keeps these restrictions once it is not appropriate for that child anymore, it can be harmful and cause the child to do harmful things to themselves. Every kid wants to explore and really there’s nothing to do to stop teenagers from doing what they want to do. What… Read more »

Yes. And more.
September 25, 2023 10:40 pm

There’s much more problematic things that the author of this article refrained from going into (besides what he went into, not that what he specified isn’t important either). Specifically on Simchas Beis nights.

Crown Heightser
Reply to  Yes. And more.
September 26, 2023 12:06 am

I beg you to keep your eyes and ears open if YOU SEE SOMETHING SAY SOMETHING. Last year on Simchas Beis Hashuava at 3 am when bachurim are dancing with their heart and soul there was something else going on RIGHT On the same street. I called Shomrim and spoke to the volunteer and explained that yes, this is out of their field but something has to be done. The volunteer put up a flashlight deep into the alley and followed what was going on. Please please let’s join together to protect out children. They deserve better.

Please tell us more
Reply to  Crown Heightser
September 28, 2023 10:11 pm

We need to know what we are looking out for!!!

Why does crown heights get blamed?
September 25, 2023 10:40 pm

Rabbi Schurder, With all due respect, why are you targeting going to Crown Heights for Tishrei??? The examples you gave of girls on the couch mingling and substance social pressure can happen in Miami and all of the big anash cities all over the world when elter bochorim have bein hazmonim and attend farbrengens and mingle with the friends. Parents aren’t glued to their children 24/7 there either. These issues have nothing to do with Crown Heights per se. Bochorim and need to be encouraged to travel to the Rebbe and visit 770 and the Ohel every Tishrei to recharge… Read more »

Missed the mark
Reply to  Why does crown heights get blamed?
September 26, 2023 12:04 am

It’s clear you don’t understand who this letter was targeted to

Him
Reply to  Why does crown heights get blamed?
September 26, 2023 1:17 am

Legendary

The situation is out of control....
Reply to  Why does crown heights get blamed?
September 26, 2023 1:22 am

You are correct that said situations can happen anywhere – especially the couch part 🙂
The problem with CH Tishrei for an innocent young chassidishe bochur even with the programs is often the timing.
True situation – young bochur went to his yeshiva’s farbreingen in BR Lefferts. Was staying Pres/Kingston. Mashpia kept saying farb will soon be over. At 2:00 AM(!) host went to find bochur (he was beyond exhausted, but rightfully afraid to walk alone). This and situations like it are NOT ok – despite the bochur being supervised by the mashpia!!! Kids also need sleep.

it's not about CH only, its about Tishrei in CH
Reply to  Why does crown heights get blamed?
September 26, 2023 3:01 am

please re-read article

It's about awareness
Reply to  Why does crown heights get blamed?
September 26, 2023 2:20 pm

Parents in Miami know what happens in Miami.
The problem here is that parents are under the impression that crown heights is a safe and chassidish place and have no worries about sending their kids.
This article is to help shed light on the realities of what goes on here.

wow
September 25, 2023 10:40 pm

yes thank you for bringing this to attention
a lot if times these farbis are just drinking and its so dangerous for these bochrim i dont see so much the overall about the girls so much bet definitely about farbis

Menachem
September 25, 2023 10:41 pm

I agree with you 100%. I appreciate your writting to be in a most tzanies’diker way. But we are all very aware of what goes on. As you said, always starting with good intentions. Farbreng say Lechaim once twice etc. and who knows.

There has been a major issue by Simchas Bais Hashoayva here
In CH.

No matter what the conditions are, watching someone 24/7 for a week 2weeks etc is almost impractical better yet impossible !!

Please be cautious. A Gut Yom Tov

Pinchos Woolstone
September 25, 2023 10:43 pm

I do not believe children, both girls or boys under the ago of 18 years of age should travel to Crown Heights for Tishrei without the appropriate arrangements for suitable accommodation and program oversight being made by their parents prior to their child departing from home. Too many youth roam the streets without any appropriate supervision.

Hey Pinchas
Reply to  Pinchos Woolstone
September 26, 2023 4:05 pm

Hey Pinchas, I truly appreciate ur input on the ch tishrei disaster that has an ensued over the past 5 years. When Lubavitch girls decided to make Lubavitch a reform synanogue

A Bochur
September 25, 2023 10:45 pm

Kinda yes but kinda wrong too
We’re teenagers we do bad things sometimes but then we get over it but that’s of course that’s e don’t take it too far and do actuall bad things but a little bit of being on our own and figuring things out isn’t do bad but as I said befor of course I ky if we don’t go to far and do really dangerous and inappropriate things

Simchas bais
September 25, 2023 10:46 pm

Is this instead of the simchas bais oped I look forward to every year!?

Chochom
September 25, 2023 10:50 pm

1. Tracht gut. Why expect tragedy? Do you make this calculation before sending your child on a road trip (car accident c”v)? 2. The Rebbe takes responsibility. They are HIS guests! 3. Is our chinuch so vulnerable that are children cannot deal with real life situations? Don’t we trust them to go on mivtzoyim? Do you know what “could” happen on mivtzoyim? (Much worse!) 4. Do you think local simchas bais hashievas and farbrengens are safer in your home town??? Like, is this only a concern in Crown Heights? Couldn’t it happen in your backyard? Local parents aren’t always supervising… Read more »

Charlie.
Reply to  Chochom
September 26, 2023 12:55 am

Tracht Gut,,,, more importantly be aware be practical be honest what really goes on.
…… put yourself in a highly dangerous place a mokom sakana, and say “tracht gut”. Not very responsible, is it ?

Chochom
Reply to  Charlie.
September 26, 2023 9:57 am

Tracht gut. You think it only applies to safe situations when there is little to no risk?!

Guests
Reply to  Chochom
September 26, 2023 3:11 am

And the ones who go to CH with the wrong intentions- are they also the Rebbe’s guests?

Chochom
Reply to  Guests
September 26, 2023 10:00 am

When your children misbehave, they are still your children. Yidden who act inappropriatately are still Hashem’s children. Chassidim that misbehave are still chassidim.

The Rebbe's guests?
Reply to  Chochom
September 26, 2023 10:10 am

The Rebbe’s guests are those who sincerely come for the Rebbe. Look in 770, girls sit and learn the entire day. So do boys downstairs. Warms your heart! But there is an entire different group of people who come for the “happening”. You’ll find them at Miron on Lag Baomer. Or at Uman on Rosh Hashanah although not being Breslov. Those are in danger. And they also bring the danger with them. They came to meet people and “have fun”. Those are not the Rebbe’s guests because they didn’t come to or for the Rebbe. And so, the Rebbe’s s… Read more »

Chochom
Reply to  The Rebbe's guests?
September 26, 2023 7:15 pm

You think that only learners qualify to be the Rebbe’s Guests?! We’re only learners invited to be Oleh Regel to the Bais Hamikdosh?! I assure you, many non-learners came to be Oleh Regel – as required! Even if they came for “fun” they were visiting the Bais Hamikdosh and being guests of HKBH!!! Yes, the bais din made takonos to prevent intermingling during simchas bais hashoeva at the Bais Hamikdosh to prevent the fun seekers from having fun, but they were welcome to be there!

Come on
Reply to  Chochom
September 27, 2023 1:01 pm

You can’t compare the supervision when your child sleeps at home as when he is another state and you don’t know where he is at any given time

No, he has a point
September 25, 2023 10:54 pm

What goes on by simchas beis hashoeiva in crown heights is becoming embarrassing

Only embarrassing?
Reply to  No, he has a point
September 26, 2023 1:24 am

It’s a disgrace. And let’s remember it’s not just the Israelis & Frenchies who are sucked in. CH teens get corrupted as well, and a lot of the causes come from other neighborhoods, including the entire Tri-state area. They bring in drugs, booze and sleaze. Police are afraid to arrest anyone because local “officials” and do-gooders get them out. Instead of holding people accountable they are given a pass.

A klurman parent
September 25, 2023 11:04 pm

Thank you Rabbi Schurder for the email, all that you do and not hiding from the struggles our teens face.

too concerned for nothing
September 25, 2023 11:19 pm

It’s people like that who restrain hordes of bochurim longing to get near Schunas Hamelech from being able to. Worried parents will always assume the worst. Speaking from experience, my friends and I have a hard time convincing our parents to let us go to Crown Heights for Tishrei and through (broken telephone) ‘stories’ they remain adamant that they don’t want us to go without full program of supervision. Rather, the hosts of Crown Heights should remain active in making it a healthy Ruchniusdike environment.

It’s not your host’s responsibility
Reply to  too concerned for nothing
September 26, 2023 5:48 am

Parents are responsible for their own children. When someone hosts, while it would be nice to think that they can “babysit” their teenage guests, they usually have their own families and Yom Tov to prepare. Supervising teenage guests is not always possible, even if hosts wanted to. (Which often they don’t, understandably.)

wrong take
Reply to  It’s not your host’s responsibility
September 26, 2023 10:52 pm

the point the author was trying to make was more that they should refrain from keeping substances such as alcohol to a limit, and ensuring the ‘female cousins’ don’t hang around by the farbrengens. it’s not babysitting it’s common decency

WRONG!
September 25, 2023 11:53 pm

Why are you holding back bochrim from going to the rebbe for tishrei? , granted that there are bad things but the positve affect that it can have in hiskashrus and avodas Hashem is tremendous!

אין כל חדש תחת השמש
September 26, 2023 12:06 am

Just another aspect of how Crown Heights has deteriorated from being the Crown jewel of Lubavitch, to being a place where teenagers can’t be left unsupervised…

Well said
September 26, 2023 12:45 am

Thank you Rabbi Schurder for being the voice of reason in a confusing world

Mother
September 26, 2023 12:47 am

Bochurim need to make choices for themselves

Go outside at 12AM and see what’s going on
Reply to  Mother
September 26, 2023 4:44 am

I believe mothers of these kids are not aware of danger, or situations that they can be part of.
Till age 18 they can’t be here alone – period.

Not fax
Reply to  Go outside at 12AM and see what’s going on
September 26, 2023 5:20 pm

After 18 it’s worse

Disagree
Reply to  Go outside at 12AM and see what’s going on
October 3, 2023 6:23 pm

You can’t control you kids life. Yeah bad stuff happens. But to control your kids is not the solution, cause once they have freedom they will do everything that they where never allowed to do.

Right
September 26, 2023 12:55 am

Rabbi Mordechai Schurder is 100% right, let’s call a spade a spade and face reality, sending your young teenagchildren without proper arrangements is simply irresponsible! Thank you

Alternative?
September 26, 2023 1:15 am

What is the alternative for bochurim? If there was a supervised program (his yeshiva doesn’t offer one) I would have gladly signed him up (and even paid for it). He wanted very much to have Tishrei with the Rebbe and not to be home.

Would it have been a better chinuch decision to force a teen to stay home against his will?

Must be organized
Reply to  Alternative?
September 26, 2023 4:07 am

It’s so nice to be here but if you are young and naive it is very dangerous, if few years ago all was discreet now it’s open- 11pm the odor of all substances is so obvious, girls & boys., they sell and use it openly….

Home sweet home, where chinuch is key
Reply to  Alternative?
September 26, 2023 4:54 am

Have your child home, if your a CH-er leave for yomtov or sit-down and talk with your kids about how to go through with the situation. If he’s older you can have a child who can go on shlichus help shluchim have a great Chassidishe time with friends even. At the end of the day though the situation tishrei in ch is very rough and sad and something has to be worked out by yeshivos etc but at the moment when there is none it’s up to you as a parent to make the right decision and choice to keep… Read more »

What ch has turned into is terrible
September 26, 2023 1:16 am

I think it’s important for people to be aware of what really goes on in ch. it’s unacceptable and is reaching a point where it’s breaching! As a ch resident, I can’t attend the prayers at 770, I can’t literally can’t walk down the streets, and can’t go to restaurants because it is over taken by some teenagers that think ch is the place to have fun and to hang out. It’s terrible to see what ch has turned into. It’s a real embarrassment to the schunah. The amount of people who come to ch without having a place to… Read more »

Yes I totally agree
Reply to  What ch has turned into is terrible
September 26, 2023 1:47 pm

I totally agree yet not at the same time. Crown heights has turned terrible, but not because of tishrei ch”v, for some reason the place with the most kedusha is a place which has the lowest klipahs. Crown heights has turned into something terrible because of crown heights. Without listening to rabbonim allowing kids to mingle at night, go to whatever lchaims and weddings their heart desires, wear whatever they feel like, and come to shul whenever. This education or lack thereof is what destroys crown heights not tishrei. So start spacing in and look around on a random Tuesday… Read more »

Ch mother
September 26, 2023 1:31 am

Thank you rabbi this is very true

Very simple solution
September 26, 2023 1:36 am

Send your kids with organized groups.
Like the boys and girls (mainly from Israel) do, so then they will have a seder to follow.
No comments here will be with highly accurate response, since every kid and family parents etc, are different.
In the end of the day, it’s parents decision regarding their kids.
The writer here is just bringing awareness.

Stop the intermingling
September 26, 2023 1:45 am

Thank you for writing this fantastic article, it really gives over the real picture (without delving too deeply) in perfect words. If a Bochur doesn’t go supervised he shouldn’t go at all. Furthermore this normalization of girls hanging around in the streets is absolutely horrible. There should be two sections of dancing 15 streets away from each other, the fact that it’s simchas beis does not make the laws of tznius and pritzus invalid. This has got to stop. Thank you Rabbi Schurder for openly speaking out against this, it has gone too long unspoken about. Hopefully we will all… Read more »

terrible!
September 26, 2023 2:07 am

there needs to be something done about this. where I’m from in Australia (furthest Chabad community from Beis Rabenu 770) many bochurim are jumping out of their shoes begging parents to let them go, but because of stories like these they’re never allowed and have to stay another year separated from their home in golus.

two sides to the story
September 26, 2023 3:05 am

it’s a delicate situation

there are many who leave so inspired

supervision and frequent checking in is very important and so is the age and mindset

Hasn’t happened to me.
September 26, 2023 3:38 am

I’m 18 now but I live in Crown Heights and haven’t ever had this happen to me when I was younger. Granted there might have been girls at random places that I happened to be at but I was never involved with that and definitely not at farbrengens. Perhaps we should actually teach our (hypothetically for me) children how to interact when their environment isn’t the best instead of trying to shelter them because you can’t shelter them forever.

When you live here is not the same as visitor
Reply to  Hasn’t happened to me.
September 26, 2023 4:14 am

When you live here you have social pressure your family, friends, yeshivah – all who can see you doing some troubles can report you so potentially you are stuck to good. But when you are 14-16 and alone here, and stick with a nice group but by the end this group doing bad stuff you can’t go away without peer pressure and can find yourself in difficult situation. And if you grew up here you do know our own troubles and off dereh because of drugs. I spot the young boy completely not feeling well after farbrengen, couldn’t walk, couldn’t… Read more »

Be safe. Be alert. Educate your kids.
September 26, 2023 4:31 am

As CH mother I can say openly that Kedusha attracts klipah, educate your children about drugs, alcohol, street safety in a big city. They are young, vulnerable, and naive and unfortunately we have here goyim and yiden who can abuse your children and we are not always there to protect them.

Ps. Schools can educate as well and be more open to discuss how not to fell into that situation and how to seek help!

Reality Check?
September 26, 2023 5:09 am

Every parent is responsible for their children, whether they are in Miami, L.A., Israel or Crown Heights. The vast majority of guests don’t end up doing drugs, passing out, or mingling with girls. There is a small (but visible) minority which does it, and they do it wherever they are. Parents know their children. They know which of their children is prone to this kind of problems, and which isn’t. If a parent sends his child with a structured plan of what will be done, and regular checking-in, the Tishrei with the Rebbe experience is something that will inspire and… Read more »

Don't even do Marijuana once!
Reply to  Reality Check?
September 27, 2023 10:59 pm

Please this is not good education. Marijuana these days can be laced with fentanyl which is deadly!it’s an epidemic…

Sad truth
September 26, 2023 5:21 am

All is true, but an article won’t change what’s happening. Kids will be kids, alcohol will be served, drugs will be available, and girls will be wherever they want to be especially in their own homes. It’s not just at Simchas beis it’s all year round anywhere its just more visible during these few days. And no the answer is not lock your kids up at home bc that could be a lot worse especially if their friends make it to ch. Rather be open with your child and yes let him make the decision bc it will catch up… Read more »

CH is child's play compared to sem year
September 26, 2023 6:47 am

Ask any post Israel seminary girl. If drinking, drugging and boys is your thing, you don’t want to miss going to Israel for seminary. You have much more time there for things to develop and you can go way further down the rabbit hole if you choose. You also don’t run as big a risk of one of your parents friends calling home as you do in the shchuna. If you really want a place that’s unsupervised, choose Israel.

I hope your not serious
September 26, 2023 7:04 am

Bh I am now happily married to my wife who I met during simchas beis hashuevah
I am not saying it’s good but lets just clarify everything is hashcacha pratis
Moshaich now
#dontspotthemfromcomingtotheschuna #off

Hashgachah Protis, Huh! iykyk
Reply to  I hope your not serious
September 27, 2023 4:59 am

Hashgachah Pratis indeed
I think someone commented the same thing by last years simchas beis hashoevah op-ed
Maybe this is the solution to the shidduch crisis 😅JK

Time for change
September 26, 2023 7:18 am

I honestly believe that the Rebbes response would be that if such tragedies are happening , the whole Tishrei experience must be reformed, e.g. maybe girls or Bochorim should not come for an entire month rather only a week or atwo and there should be patrols on the streets done by mature adults….

Anonymous
Reply to  Time for change
September 26, 2023 7:29 pm

The was happening in the 80’s and 90’s as well, and I’m sure the Rebbe was aware.

Putting words in the Rebbes holy mouth
Reply to  Time for change
September 27, 2023 6:58 am

You can’t ever say, “The Rebbe would say this or The Rebbe would say that!”
Things have to change yet to say it in the Rebbes name!? Blasphomous!

Young women
September 26, 2023 7:30 am

A warning to young women, do not walk alone especially at night. Do not trust any man even if he looks like a religious Jew. Keep an eye on the cup you are drinking from in case gd forbid a male tries to drug you when you’re not looking. CH is not safe this time of year for our girls and women and they need to be made more aware of the danger they’re in.

Guest also need to have respect .
September 26, 2023 8:23 am

Please tell your children . People live here . So here goes. American & Israeli visitors: 1. Don’t litter . 2 don’t leave your food one someone else’s property 3. People are sleeping at night please don’t scream and yell on the streets I find it very disturbing how in 770 the girls took over . Eating leaving messes . Stepping on benches . Also not respecting the locals who have seats . For Yom Kippur . Literally sitting on people’s heads . Parents where are you ? Also stop plastering rebbe posters everywhere .on street lights . And 10… Read more »

Worried Bubby
September 26, 2023 10:43 am

I think it would be nice if some of the health care professionals and Hatzola members weighed in, with their experience in dealing with drunken and overdosed teens. Unfortunately, they get to see the real consequences of unsupervised teens.

we're all brothers and sisters
September 26, 2023 10:58 am

klal yisroel b’yachad ❤

Do not equate young women with Drugs
September 26, 2023 3:21 pm

Please do not blame young women for the downfall of young (or old) men. Let men take responsibility for their actions/urges and let’s not equate innocent women with harmful addictive drugs. They are NOT the same and it’s disingenuous to lump them together.

And let us not forget that many a young man has taken advantage and/or attacked young women at Simchas Beis after being given alcohol or drugs (on purpose or inadvertently) – Are the young women at fault for that too?

Except
Reply to  Do not equate young women with Drugs
September 26, 2023 8:16 pm

That even the young women may be into the drugs… don’t assume that only guys like to party hard

Why go to Crown Heights?
September 26, 2023 3:24 pm

Aside for the building of 770, can someone please explain why anyone should go to CH for Yom tov?
I fail to understand this notion of “going to the Rebbe” to ch post 3 tammuz.
Better, find a chavrusah and go help a shliach for Yom tov. At least that way you’re actually doing something positive and doing the Rebbe’s shlichus.
As someone who was in CH for tishrei from afar pre 3 tammuz, there was already hefkerus if you wanted it. But at least you had the farbrengens, sichos and davening of the Rebbe to attend.

you have a misunderstanding
Reply to  Why go to Crown Heights?
September 26, 2023 8:32 pm

not to sound harsh, by saying you dont understand. but coming to be by the Rebbe is a yiddishe chassidishe experience which people take kochos for the whole year. daveing in the Rebbe’s shul in unbelievable experience and dancing with chayis helps elevate themselves and crown heights

bahab
September 26, 2023 5:22 pm

should the yidden not have gone oleh regel. because we fast bahab for all the footsies under the table that went on, they even had to add a esras nahim in the beis hamikdash. for sure there need protection, but to always stop and close some out will never fix the problem

Why go to Crown Heights?
Reply to  bahab
September 26, 2023 7:32 pm

Oleh regel is a mitzvah in the Torah, going to ch is not, especially post 3 tammuz.

false
Reply to  Why go to Crown Heights?
September 26, 2023 10:06 pm

it abosulutley is a very important thing to visit the rebbe during tishrie. Its the way to be oleh regel in galus

Beis Rabeinu Shebebovel
Reply to  Why go to Crown Heights?
September 27, 2023 7:01 am
been there
September 26, 2023 5:26 pm

everyone knows the way hashem set up the world is so that in order there be bechirah chafshis wherever there is alot of kedusha like by the rebbe where there is the most kedusha in the world there will also be a lot of klipah to combat it so we have bechirah chafshis. if you want to take away that unbelieavable expiriance of being by the rebbe for tishrie/succcos do that but just know what your taking away from them.

Buchor
September 26, 2023 5:27 pm

It is a big problem but if someone is gonna do drugs and hang with girls they are gonna do it either way.it is not fair to bucherim going for the right reasons that they shouldn’t go.To be. 100 percent honest if you think your son will hang out with girls don’t send him.Most people can tell if their son is a more chilled buchor who might have a problem.Also drugs and alcohol are available everywhere now if someone is gonna do it he’ll in ch or where he lives.CH isn’t the problem it is the people who go.Ask your… Read more »

It's the people who go
Reply to  Buchor
September 27, 2023 5:02 am

100% agree, its the people who go, its not CH

CH host
September 26, 2023 5:39 pm

Thanks for posting. This article was very much needed!

If the girls
September 26, 2023 6:33 pm

If the girls were dressed modestly these kind of things will never happen.

Garbage
Reply to  If the girls
September 26, 2023 9:03 pm

Modestly dressed girls are also attractive thank u very much

So if someone eats treif
Reply to  If the girls
September 26, 2023 10:48 pm

It’s McDonalds fault for existing?

Kop Doktar
September 26, 2023 7:35 pm

When your kid goes OTD, will it be because:

A. You let him/her go to CH for tishrei.

B. You did not let her/him go to CH fir tishrei.

C. You did not show him/her how much you love her/him and that you are his/her best friend.

THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

Everything else is pointing blame on everyone else.

Tell your child that s/he is your BFF and hug her/him till it hurts, and later there won’t be any hurt. Guaranteed.

And to Chochom- you nailed it.

Wat
Reply to  Kop Doktar
September 26, 2023 10:12 pm

Your kid needs more than hugs and kisses.
He needs directions.
When your kid goes otd, we’ll understand, but I don’t get why you assume everyone else’s kids will also

Kop Doktar
Reply to  Wat
September 26, 2023 11:54 pm

A child that feels loved will NEVER act out to hurt his living parents. If you feel guilty, start remedial action today.

Thank you
September 26, 2023 7:59 pm

Thank you Rabbi for warning naive parents. If they’re not naive, they wouldn’t let kids travel unsupervised. It’s a recipe for no good, cv’s.

Thank you!
September 26, 2023 8:47 pm

Boruch Hashem, to hear a man and a Rabbi give this direction is the brocha of the year. I have been a lone voice stating this as long as I can remember. Please, Hashem, protect our babies, all their lives.

The bochrim shouldn’t be limited
September 26, 2023 11:42 pm

Most bochrim want to go to the rebbe for tishrei l, why should they be harassed by their parents about potentially hanging out with girls. Instead parents shouldn’t be sending their girls to ch for these times, and the crown heights families should make sure that their daughters aren’t around if they are hosting a farbrengen

Your wrong
Reply to  The bochrim shouldn’t be limited
September 29, 2023 3:17 am

Maybe if everyone stayed respectful and the girls and boys were each where they were supposed to be no one would have to be “limited”.

CH resident
September 27, 2023 12:46 am

*The Proper Care* Handwritten note from the Rebbe to Reb Shmuel (“Mulleh”) Azimov about arranging for a group from France to come to the Rebbe for Tishrei:    באם 1) יכול לסדר (הכותב) שכאן יתעסק מי עמהם במשך שהותם כאן. 2) מבטיחים (הרוצים לנסוע) שעי”ז יתוסף אצלם בעניני תומ”צ (לפי השערתם), 3) לא יכנסו עי”ז לחוב גדול כו’ – תהא הנסיעה בשטומו”צ. If [the following conditions can be met]: 1) You (the writer of this letter) can arrange for someone to take care of them during their stay here. 2) They (whoever wishes to travel here) promise that (in their… Read more »

Bochurim collecting
Reply to  CH resident
September 27, 2023 11:41 am

Excellent points!! Seems many guests from Israel spend a large part of their time collecting money to cover their trip (or selling items to profit enough to cover their debt).
This is exactly against what the Rebbe wanted!

Just came across this article
September 27, 2023 10:27 pm

Didn’t get a chance to read through the article yet, but just by reading the headline and a few comments, i feel the need to comment that it seems there’s some alcoholics on here. Another thing, as I’m aware,too many teenagers/bochurim, basically children had to be resuscitated by hatazala or had their stomaches pumped in the hospital is enough to know there’s a problem!

From the Rebbe’s Igros Kodesh
September 28, 2023 2:19 am

*The Proper Care* Handwritten note from the Rebbe to Reb Shmuel (“Mulleh”) Azimov about arranging for a group from France to come to the Rebbe for Tishrei:    באם 1) יכול לסדר (הכותב) שכאן יתעסק מי עמהם במשך שהותם כאן. 2) מבטיחים (הרוצים לנסוע) שעי”ז יתוסף אצלם בעניני תומ”צ (לפי השערתם), 3) לא יכנסו עי”ז לחוב גדול כו’ – תהא הנסיעה בשטומו”צ. If [the following conditions can be met]: 1) You (the writer of this letter) can arrange for someone to take care of them during their stay here. 2) They (whoever wishes to travel here) promise that (in their… Read more »

Another safety concern mothers need to be aware
September 28, 2023 7:38 pm

Too many kids unsupervised climb to the top of the roof of houses and buildings that are 3 or 4 flights up. Very tall buildings. It’s not fenced and it’s so so dangerous. When you send your teens to the dancing, watch that they don’t go on the roof.

I think you guys are taking this WAY to extreme
Reply to  Another safety concern mothers need to be aware
October 3, 2023 6:05 pm

Reading all these comments and the actual article itself, sounds really convincing and terrible but in truth this is not the reality. The ideas and stories were all said by people who do not really know what’s happening but just hear the few extremely sad stories and think this is everyone. But this is not the case as a Mechanich and someone who is around CH all the time I know for a fact that for the vast majority of Bachurim this is not the case and almost all of them are good chassidishe bachurim…!!! There is no reason to… Read more »

Hatzolah! Help!
September 28, 2023 10:17 pm

We really need more paramedics & EMT’s in the community perhaps having female volunteers would help the young women feel safe to seek help & would also deter young vagrants from trying anything willy nilly

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