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Tuesday, 16 Shevat, 5786
  |  February 3, 2026

Let’s Talk About Shluchim Working Under Shluchim

Op-ed by Rabbi Gershon Avtzon: "I spoke with many Yungeleit about why are they looking to be Shluchim alone in a small city (which has so many challenges) if they can work for another Shliach in a bigger city and seemingly affect so many more people - and I was shocked by the answer." Full Story

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Rabbi Avtson strikes again
November 10, 2024 10:51 pm

Amazing perspective and advice. Thank you for your incredible clarity

Make it practical
Reply to  Rabbi Avtson strikes again
November 11, 2024 1:31 pm

Call Rabbi Aaron Herman if you are considering hiring/working for a shliach. Set yourself up for success.

-Been there, done that, BH it’s going great

Reply
Reply to  Make it practical
November 12, 2024 11:51 am

Couldn’t agree more. Rabbi Herman is an excellent resource

Great ideas
November 10, 2024 10:52 pm

It was very clearly stated and outlined.

However who follows rules today? Everyone has to keep his place and know his line. It’s self understood that no one wants to “understand.”
Hamasser Hu Haekar.

However since that doesnt happen
I totally agree with make your own shlichus then having a senior over you. Senior Shluchim today are not who they were before gimmel tammuz. Too much has changed and not for the better. Best to make your own.

Girl
November 10, 2024 11:04 pm

I think going on shlichus to a place where there’s even just one yid is to help bring the people closer to Yiddishkeit

think about it like this
Reply to  Girl
November 11, 2024 12:08 am

the jews who live where no shluchim are have NO one to find, no one to acquire Torah from. no one at all. for hundreds of miles away. how r they gonna find it unless you seek them out via the internet and drive to their house. the jews who live in big cities have COUNTLESS options of who they can cross paths with to have their souls saved by. to learn Torah from. to find Truth. they don’t have to go for even a mile to find. in the meantime you all should be seeking out those jews who… Read more »

Support?
Reply to  Girl
November 11, 2024 7:08 am

That is for merkos shlichus! Who would support a full family in such a situation?

Shlichus Is Dead
November 10, 2024 11:08 pm

The truth is that today unless you are a relative of the shliach you can’t expect job security or getting a position.

There are so many stories of shluchim kicking out other shluchim for their children and putting their hired shliach as a placeholder for that position. Nowadays nepotism is the only way to get serious job security.

This stings
Reply to  Shlichus Is Dead
November 12, 2024 9:49 am

My parents were “shluchim” under the main shliach since the 80s. Once the main shliach died my elderly parents were left jobless, all the main shliach kids took over. My parents can’t even make a speech at shul let alone help run any events. They are too old to start over, they were at the same location for over 40 years and they feel like they lost their mission. They are shluchim just in name, people around don’t realize the politics around and why they no longer are active in the shul. My parents sacrificed everything, even mortgaged their home… Read more »

Woah
Reply to  This stings
November 15, 2024 1:21 pm

This is actually really sad to read. May Hashem Bent’s them with pure brochos from here on for what they’ve done for the sake of another yid

Gershon avtzon
November 10, 2024 11:15 pm

Every couple of months gershon avtzon picks up his pen and writes a masterpiece. But you know what ? Eventually someone has to tell him how it is. Every class of yeshiva students make a shul for the grade in crown heights, it’s called a class shul, and every year the amount of bochurim that look and take jobs grows, at this point the new class shul is 75 percent of guys who have or are looking for jobs, and Boruch hashem the community has made a platform for bochurim to get jobs and there are many industries like e-commerce… Read more »

i think you have a false view of secular college
Reply to  Gershon avtzon
November 11, 2024 12:10 am

let me tell you a story. i know a goy whose son got a university degree in physics and he can’t even find a job. just because people have college educations doesn’t mean they can find a job.

Woah
Reply to  Gershon avtzon
November 11, 2024 12:49 am

The bochurim you speak of do exist, however, so do the bochurim Rabbi Avtzon speaks of, and in this article he’s speaking to them. If you think that that section of bochurim doesn’t exist, maybe you’re the one that’s not down to earth.

Not trying to be sharp, just using your language 🫡

He wrote to them...
Reply to  Gershon avtzon
November 11, 2024 7:04 am
Extremely Challenging
November 10, 2024 11:20 pm

New Shluchim process things in a completely different light
Each Shaliach should and deserves their own places

More talk about the hired Shluchims perspectives….
November 10, 2024 11:36 pm

I personally think there are many amazing Shluchim out there, who hire other Shluchim. I actually think in those cases it’s the issue of the hired Shluchim who have crazy expectations and absolutely unreasonable demands at times. I have seen and witnessed so many cases where the Shluchim completely bent absolutely backwards to accommodate so much for the new Shluchim and the new Shluchim were still ungrateful and had such unrealistic demands…. I actually think a lot of the issues stem from the hired new Shluchim not so much their bosses, I have seen and witnessed this a lot….. A… Read more »

Reply
Reply to  More talk about the hired Shluchims perspectives….
November 11, 2024 1:06 am

Definitely could of happened.
That’s not usually the case though

The op-ed was objective
Reply to  More talk about the hired Shluchims perspectives….
November 11, 2024 2:19 am

Reread the article. There were good points that both sides need to consider and it seems to be a very balanced article. In regards to your points yes there are such cases too. The question is which one is more prevalent and is the real issue to tackle. Unfortunately there is a reason why there is a thing about working for Shluchim vs a regular moissed. And I think that in 99 percent of the cases it doesn’t come from a bad place. The employers are great people but due to their own experience, toiling, living with less etc they… Read more »

there are jewish souls getting destroyed right now
November 10, 2024 11:58 pm

in public school. who is rescuing them? who is seeking out their parents to convince them to drop out of public school? who is going to save their souls? why isnt anyone doing anything about it??????? go all over the entire usa and israel and rescue all the real jews from the public schools now.

Nu!
Reply to  there are jewish souls getting destroyed right now
November 11, 2024 3:57 pm

Aren’t you a somebody?!

this is one of the biggest problems with chabad
Reply to  Nu!
November 12, 2024 11:00 am

they focus on the older people whose souls have already been destroyed instead of the babies and young children who are still in public school who do not have any choice to leave school because of their parents. obviously chabad should still try to save older kids and people too but WHERE IS THE FOCUS ON THE YOUNGER KIDS AND BABIES

Bro
Reply to  this is one of the biggest problems with chabad
November 15, 2024 1:25 pm

You obviously are not a lubavitcher. If you were, you would know that’s so false. But you’re more than welcome to help with the mission! Start something for the kids in your area in public school (if there isn’t a shliach already dealing with it (or ask how you can help)). Of course it must be done in the correct manner though, so make sure you know what that is

Parents don't need convincing
Reply to  there are jewish souls getting destroyed right now
November 12, 2024 9:57 am

They need the money to afford a Jewish education. At least in FL most families in public schools cannot afford to make the switch. I know many families who switched back to public school because the chronic stress of paying for school was not worth it. My kids tuition is more than my mortgage.

A good new job should be fundraising for families to afford a Jewish education and actually lowering tuition. Every time the state of FL gives more money towards vouchers tuition goes up so parents never feel the relief.

why are there like millions of
November 10, 2024 11:59 pm

shluchim in 1 city but then 0 for like hundreds of miles in places in the usa. who is going to save the jews who live in the middle of nowhere who dont have any shluchim without hours of their home

Hilarious!
Reply to  why are there like millions of
November 11, 2024 1:09 am

Dude! You’re hilarious 🤣🤣🤣

but actually
Reply to  Hilarious!
November 11, 2024 6:06 pm

who is going to save their souls. i suggest people start finding and reaching them by the internet in the meantime until shluchim move to those areas.

Great advice
November 11, 2024 12:02 am

Very similar to a recent piece in the Compass magazine

Yungerman
November 11, 2024 12:29 am

The chances of successfully getting along with the senior shaliach is nearly zero. In the corporate world, managers and CEO take courses to teach them how to deal with subordinates. That knowledge is critical to successful employee-employer relationship. Senior shluchim never learned how to best manage their employees. And this leads to failure, after years of discord, ill feelings, and friction. Yes, after 15 years my shlichos dream died when I was dismissed, and now I am starting from scratch at a beginner salary while I have children soon needing chasuna expenses. It hurts, and I am not alone in… Read more »

this is great!
Reply to  Yungerman
November 11, 2024 4:25 am

BS”D

When one is a shliach, with littls to no “normal” business/economics experience and yet have zero corporate experience, inevitably, he/she will get jealous fire the subordinate. The level of trust can be at an all-time low, and there’s no escape. Nepotism is the rule in the frum World.

sorry to hear.
Reply to  Yungerman
November 11, 2024 7:17 am

the first thing i want to say is that no matter where you are in the united states, there are always LOTS of tinok shinoshba jews who have never heard of real Torah judaism who are wealthy. i recommend you find them and try to convince them to become frum and inevitably eventually they will probably donate money to you. obviously it’s not about money. it’s about you saving their soul from this evil world. but if you and other people like you would really really SEEK out ALL the tinok shinoshbas in the entire united states you would find… Read more »

Yungerman
Reply to  sorry to hear.
November 11, 2024 5:43 pm

The wealthy are already within someone’s “territory” and “belong” to that shliach. When I tried doing EXACTLY as you suggested, I was called to a din Torah by the shaliach who never spoke to these wealthy people, and charged with hasogas gevul – encroaching someone else’s territory and possessions. Guess what? I was ordered to cease and desist by bais din!!

BH for the winner
Reply to  Yungerman
November 11, 2024 6:13 pm

IT’S COMMENDABLE TO AIM TO BE A SHLIACH! THE PROBLEM ARRISES WHEN: 1. THE SALARY DOES NOT COVER TUITION, HEALTH INSURANCE, AND BASIC NEEDS. 2. WHEN A MEKURAV GIVES THE SHLIACH (WHO IS NOT THE HEAD SHLIACH) A BONUS OR MONEY, HE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO KEEP IT. SOME HEAD SHLUCHIM DEDUCT THE MONEY FROM THE SALARY OF THE SHLIACH WHO IS UNDER THEM. 3. WHEN THE WIFE WORKS IN THE SHLICHUS SHE SHOULD ASO RECEIVE A SALARY. 4. SHLICHUS IS WHAT WE AIM FOR OUR CHILDREN AS LUBAVITCHERS. HOWEVER, THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO CVER EXPENSES. 5. YOU… Read more »

Shaliach
Reply to  BH for the winner
November 12, 2024 5:57 pm

Yes. When a bal habos gave me a $1000 personal gift (cash – no receipt) for pessach, when the ball habos mentioned it to the head shaliach, he demanded it!

Great article
November 11, 2024 12:53 am

As a child of parents who were asked to leave shlichus, I do say, this is great advice.

It’s also interesting to think about how
those shluchim that fired hired shluchim impacted how future generations look at shlichus

I'm that employee Shliach
November 11, 2024 1:03 am

While a lot of these suggestion are good it is nothing new. I went out 15 years ago with a detailed contract… still didn’t work. Both shluchim and aspiring shluchim needed to develop a healthy work ethic on an individual basis. Some have some haven’t. If you ask me, it is bigger mesiras nefesh to work under a shliach then to move to a much further little town… My family works for big corporates and they make so much effort to keep their employees happy. It is possible if they try… obviously some do…

Is there something wrong
November 11, 2024 1:15 am

with hiring the new couple as a team and describing each of their responsibilities? To say not to hire the woman, that it is her job to support her husband, in my opinion is somewhat condescending. Shouldn’t they be a team, and can’t they each have important roles described?

The head shaliach shouldnt expect....
Reply to  Is there something wrong
November 11, 2024 12:33 pm

That for ONE salary, he is hiring two full time people.

Head Shaliach
Reply to  The head shaliach shouldnt expect....
November 12, 2024 12:37 pm

When I hire one person, I do NOT expect to have TWO full-time employees working! I expect that ALL the children also “volunteer” full time!! They must run shabbos children’s groups, go on mivtzoyim, help pack boxes in the Chabad House, buy supplies etc Shlichus is a TEAM effort and if you are on the team, you gotta be active.

Read it
Reply to  Is there something wrong
November 11, 2024 1:33 pm

That isn’t what he said. If the woman wants to be hired as well, no problem, but it should be a separate job description to avoid confusion and conflict

So important
November 11, 2024 1:21 am

I work in a city with other shluchim and it is so hard to do anything because other shluchim get upset so rather many people don’t have their spiritual needs met than shluchim fighting…. It’s the sad painful reality. I’ve tried it many times and the shluchim here have big egos and want to be in control so I stopped doing the good work I was doing because I don’t want to be fighting with shluchim. It’s galus reality, I wish it would e different

So sad!
Reply to  So important
November 11, 2024 10:08 am

This subject should be the main subject at the Kinnusim even if it only happens
rarely.

I'm not on shluchus but...
Reply to  So important
November 12, 2024 10:14 am

When I moved to a big city my husband would do mitzvoyim as he was accustomed to always doing on Friday. No one in this big city was doing it at the time the shluchim asked him to stop doing this since this was their town and these spots were for their kids in the future. My husband was not trying to build a community or be a leader. When I held learning classes in my home because the main shlucha told me that she does not like to learn and the learning at shul was only chabad.org printouts I… Read more »

Preventative mediation is key...
November 11, 2024 1:51 am

Every senior shliach should sit down with the new shliach in the presence of a mediator before signing a contract and at various intervals after that. Rabbi Aaron Herman is an experienced mediator specializing in shluchus; he has saved many shluchim a lot of agmas nefesh.

A young Shliach's perspective
November 11, 2024 1:59 am

Great article by Rabbi Avtzon, however I don’t think it is the only reason (though it’s definitely a reason for some). At least when I was looking for Shlichus, there wasn’t many options under other Shluchim and the ones that were available were mostly “specialized” roles such as teen Shluchim and the like which is not relevant to everyone, as opposed to the typical all around shlichus of programming, shiurim etc. I was actually more interested in the financial security of working under someone but took a smaller new place because of the availability and desire to go out on… Read more »

Family
November 11, 2024 2:09 am

Thank you you made some very clear and true points!
What do you suggest to shluchim who hire shluchim to their area- some are their children, and some are not…. what’s important to keep in mind?

I'm not Rabbi Avtzon
Reply to  Family
November 11, 2024 1:37 pm

But I think the most basic thing is to treat everyone equally

Defining shlichus
November 11, 2024 2:52 am

Once you define it as ‘employment’, and ‘optional’ for the wife, you have changed the concept altogether. Too much focus is to say ‘I am on shlichus’ or ‘I am a shliach’ and sometimes your real job description is office manager or yeshiva cook. Running community programs and/or learning with others is being the baale abusse of an aspect of shlichus and not just an employee Sometimes the shlucha is sought after and the community needs to figure something for the husband to do. That scenario doesn’t always play well All your points about communication, respect and understanding the community… Read more »

Another thing that is very important!
November 11, 2024 4:23 am

The head shliach should respect the shliach he is hiring, and should not take him for granted

Living with the times
November 11, 2024 5:23 am

While I agree in theory with many points in this article, in reality this doesn’t work on both ends. The senior Shliach expects Mesiras Nefesh which by definition has no boundary and at the very same time, he expects the younger Shliach to stay in his lane and there is no room for growth which makes the younger couple feel like shmates. If I may, I believe that today’s Shllichus is with our own tayere neshamos of anash! Yes! While a shliach feels accomplished that he put on Tefillin with one yid or convinced one woman to light shabbos candles,… Read more »

End the family dynastic Nepotism
November 11, 2024 5:29 am

One of the major issues I have witnessed as a BT who grew up watching growth in my home state here in the US is Nepotism. The young couple not related to the head shliach comes and helps out enhances the community builds it for 20-30+ years then they kick out the family in favor of the Eldest Child of that head shliach instead of helping that family start a branched shlichus. The favoritism of family members over non family is very problematic as it inherently lacks Ahavas Yisroel. Also who’s to say that the growth in the community would… Read more »

The Real Truth
November 11, 2024 5:32 am

While Rabbi Avetzon has emerged on a hot issue. I have another reality check on this: Many today are doing the Rebbes work without being official shluchim. Wether in bussiness or in Chinuch. Working in many capacities that are even not associated with Chabad. Some are Rabonim some deliver Shiurim. Some write books some are involved in the political spectrum. Etc Yet, they are not recognized as shluchim as they aren’t under the shlichus banner or have official authority to act as shluchim. In my opinion this is wrong and creates an unnecessary stress for many to charter a course… Read more »

Well said -real topics again rabbi Avtzon
November 11, 2024 6:09 am

Beautifully written
There also should be guidelines of “where you can fundraiser from in your territory under a shliach . If our goal is to reach every yid and make the Rebbe proud and we all have emunah and bitachon that this is what is meant for me ? then why would a senior be bothered at the new guy if he is capable of fund raising from a new person in his territory. Let’s all figure this out properly and Moshiach will truly be celebrated in a revealed way now !

Nepotism also not a solution
November 11, 2024 7:29 am

Unfortunately many families fell apart because of this very issue. Son-in-law working for his Father-in-law on Shlichus, brother-in-law etc etc… Many times it is much worse to work for family. I know of many capable people who specifically chose not to work for family.

shliach hiring
November 11, 2024 8:25 am

A problem may be that the shluchim are in charge. Do they have anyone to answer to? This doesn’t pertain only to the hiring of other shluchim to help but also to their programs, halachic ramiifications such as mechitzas for shuls and gatherings, even the exclusive use of Lubavitch shechita.
The umbrella organization that sends out shluchim should be more involved in the hiring, firing and salary, including benefits, of those the shliach hires. Shluchim are not an entity to themselves or their domain – what they do or don’t do affects the whole Lubavitch movement.

I like this
Reply to  shliach hiring
November 11, 2024 1:43 pm

Very good point

Cognitive Dissonance
November 11, 2024 8:56 am

Unfortunately, Rabbi Avtzon has too many blind spots on this topic. He writes that he spoke to a “respected educator” who said that “Tomchei Temimim needs to put a focus on shlichus, and Talmidim need to be instilled with that passion and fire….” Let’s not kid ourselves, the entire OT zal is modeled on getting (bochurim) shlichus and throughout the yeshiva (and girls) system in Lubavitch, Shlichus is in fact a MASSIVE focus. And yet, and yet, only a small fraction of Lubavitch end up going on shlichus. I’d like to know who this educator is and what yeshiva he… Read more »

Just don't do it
November 11, 2024 8:56 am

These are all very good ideas, but they imply that if carried through, it will be successful.

It won’t be.

You simply cannot move out and work for head shluchim. It is always either a disaster and implodes/explods, or you’re living your life with resentment.

Trust me. The ones that work don’t really work.

Yunger man
November 11, 2024 10:11 am

After reading this article I believe rabbi avtzon not understanding the dream of every yunger man, to move out and WORK HARD in THEIR OWN mokom hashlochus

WHEN YOU ARE IN YOUR OWN PLACE YOU ARE MUCH MORE MOTIVATED!!

Maybe let’s talk about shluchim should be ready to give away a geographical part of their shlichis which they are anyways, not servicing properly, and that way the shliach Brought down will be fully motivated!

Corporate Training for Shluchim
November 11, 2024 11:07 am

There needs or be a forum for Corporate Management Training for Shluchim. A mandated course for the leaders and subordinates.

Corporate Training for Shluchim
November 11, 2024 11:08 am

There needs to be formal training for Shluchim heads and junior Shluchim.

Read all of these...
November 11, 2024 12:37 pm

….and it is immaterial. There aren’t enough shlichus jobs (that are not already being given to shluchim children) to employ all of our young post-yeshiva men and women. This article is only useful for a sliver of our population….

Nepotism
November 11, 2024 1:18 pm

Let”s address nepotism. Is it an example of the dynasty phenomenon?

Normal people are the problem
November 11, 2024 2:52 pm

We find ourselves, normal people, trying to navigate something which at its very core is not normal. Running on human nature one does not pursue shlichus, which is dependant on (either (hopefully not) the actualisation or (at least) a theoretical willingness of) mesiras nefesh. It’s simply a bad idea in terms of ensuring personal gain and survival, especially to the new standard of responsibility that comes with getting married. Yet a bunch of us strive for it, due to whatever influence. So when there’s friction around the money, no one’s to be judged for being normal. On the other hand,… Read more »

gashmias is a trap
Reply to  Normal people are the problem
November 11, 2024 3:48 pm

doesn’t bring happiness or satisfaction. it’s a trap. dont chase after it.

Shlichus in built up community
November 11, 2024 3:57 pm

Town with 8000-9000 Jews in affluent city is available.
Call 61395259929

mistake
Reply to  Shlichus in built up community
November 13, 2024 5:24 pm

there’s one digit too many in your phone number

Long term
November 11, 2024 4:33 pm

Very nice guidelines not really applied le maisse New Shliach has to be independent It’s the only long term solution iOw Shluchim have to hire their relatives It’s very sad to be a Shliach for 15-20’years and then to have to go to businesses to support family It would be nice to have numbers of how many second shluchim were kicked out , and how many fights . And how many continue with bad feelings ,and how many stay and for how many years We would be surprised to find out that it’s not even an option to be subordinated… Read more »

Friend of the Avtzons
November 11, 2024 9:26 pm

A smart relative, in responding to my praise of a person who filled most of the job openings in his moisid with relatives, strongly disagreed. He stated that you shouldn’t hire someone whom you can’t fire. Something to serve as food for thought.

Dovid
November 11, 2024 11:04 pm

Shlichus is a very challenging job, no matter what setup. If you’re looking for financial stability, or if you think that you can only be happy with x amount of money, then shlichus isn’t for you. It takes a lot of bittul and ibergegebenkait for it to work, whether it’s your own moised or under someone. From a professional standpoint, the expectation to be in the same job for life is far fetched. Even big guys in corporate America lose their jobs a few times in their career, and go through a whole struggle and identity crisis too. Changing shlichus… Read more »

The flip side:
November 12, 2024 1:24 am

Everyone is so quick to blame the senior shliach, Saying that it’s their fault that there doesn’t work. What about the young whippersnappers who move out and try to oust the Shluchim?? where do they get the chutzpah to do that?? It has happened several times in the last few years. Why is nobody teaching these kids BASIC job culture?? You Get hired as a basic employee and a company, you don’t jump to be CEO overnight! It takes two years of growth and trust. Same with a Shlichus. It takes years of growth and trust. And most importantly: The… Read more »

He wrote both sides
Reply to  The flip side:
November 14, 2024 5:45 am

Read his article

Statistically
November 12, 2024 6:48 am

Statistically, maybe 30% of bochurim will marry and go out on shlichus to out of town locations (some under shluchim, some on their own). The other 70% are working in chinuch/klei Kodesh or working in the ‘velt’. The ones who work in the outside world – those choose those hustle jobs or businesses like cash advance – why not choose to print money? Bh many of them making good money and giving tzedaka But for those who choose to go on shlichus – it’s a prospect fraught with complexity whether you’re under someone or branching out. But which talent, capable… Read more »

Shaliach
Reply to  Statistically
November 12, 2024 3:02 pm

From the 30% that go out on shlichus, how many return? Is it 10-20% or much more?

The Rebbies response to the above
November 12, 2024 1:57 pm

The Rebbe once told one of the head rabbanim of Lubavitch ( not living any more) concerning a shaliach that worked as the right hand of the head shaliach of the largest state .That if this head shaliach could not work out things with this shaliach then he does not need the entire state that he runs . (not Florida ). To my knowledge he did not work out things with this shalich!

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