By Rabbi Gershon Avtzon, Cincinnati, Ohio
As we begin preparing for Rosh Hashana, the time for reaccepting upon ourselves the kingship of Hashem, it is appropriate to speak about two very important and sensitive topics: Tznius and Beards. Being open and transparent: When I told a few of my close friends and family members of my Hakhel Hachlata/resolution, to write monthly Op-Eds on Chinuch related issues, I was warned that there are certain topics that one must stay away from and they automatically turn off the reader as they already have formed a strong emotional opinion on the matter. The two main topics were “Tznius” for girls and women and “beards” for boys and men.
Throughout the year I have listened to this sage advice but as we are finishing this special Hakhel year, I feel it appropriate to share an important Chinuch perspective on the above-mentioned topics. To be clear: I am not: 1) writing to vent my personal frustration of the lowering standards in our communities 2) giving a halacha (or mussar) shiur 3) pointing fingers at individuals or institutions. I am writing to share a Chinuch approach to these, and other important halachos and minhagim, that our children may find initially burdensome or restricting.
In my twenty years in Chinuch, I have observed the following pattern. There are certain families that have (generally) managed to instill higher-standards in their children in specific areas , even if the children (or families from where they come from) were “regular” in their general standards of Chassidhkeit and Yiras Shamayim. These standards were adhered to even though they were difficult and also demanded a certain level of sacrifice.
I will share two examples: 1) There is one family that is very careful about eating only “split-chicken” and members of this family would have to forgo many meals in Yeshiva that served non-split chicken. 2) I have seen descendants of the “Shalah Hakadosh” that have given up on eating meals where “turkey” was served.
[ There are many examples that I can bring. I bring examples of eating, as this area is very important to a Mesivta-age bochur. Many are away from home and this is the only food that they get to eat.]
At the beginning I wondered how these families were able to instill these values into their children to the extent that even when the children leave their parents sight and care they hold on to these (seemingly) “chumros”.
After observing, and asking the talmidim themselves, the picture became crystal clear: These stringencies were presented to, and instilled in, the children with a strong sense of honor and pride from the very beginning. They were explained that they are from a special family and these stringencies are a badge of honor for their special family. Presented in such a way, the children in these families wanted to keep wearing, and identifying with, this special badge of honor.
In practical terms: As parents and machanchim, we must be aware that there are certain values that we want to instill in our children that will make them look and act different from those which are around them. The way to do that is, not by creating the illusion that it is easy – rather, by constantly (and from a young age) speaking about how special we (as Yidden and Chassidim) are and the pride of wearing these badges of honor.
I once spoke to a group of girls that had difficulties with Tznius. I presented the following scenario: Imagine you walked into the Beis Hamikdash and saw all the Kohanim wearing four garments and one Kohein wearing eight. Would you feel bad for the one that is stuck wearing eight (as opposed to four)? Do you think the person wearing eight garments feels self-conscious or restricted by his extra external garments? They all looked at me and answered: “Of course not! The one wearing eight is the Kohein Gadol and people would risk their lives (knowing that they would have to enter the Kodesh Kadashim) just for the honor of being a Kohein Gadol!
I smiled and looked at each of those girls and explained to them that as a “Bas Yisroel and Bas Chabad”, they are also a Kohein Gadol and the “extra garments” (tznius) that Hashem wants them to wear is an expression of their unique status and position in this world. It had a tremendous effect on those girls.
[On the topic of Tznius, and close to Tishrei, I would like to bring up the following question that I have been wondering: If you daven in 770 on Yom Tov, you will observe the pre (and post) Birchas Kohanim rush in which many frum and Chassidishe couples meet up right outside 770 to ensure that their kids are under the Tallis for Brichas Kohanim. It creates a very sticky tznius situation for all those people (especially bochurim) who are entering or exiting the shul. Is it the right thing and appropriate? I leave the question to each couple to think about and discuss with their Rav.]
The same approach applies to instilling in our boys the importance and pride in always having a full beard: Some have taken the approach to start teaching the boys the many poskim that speak of the severity of the issur of trimming or shaving. While I fully agree that boys should be aware of the Halachik severity and stringency of this important issue, and that having a full-beard is not a chumara rather a din, this approach should be secondary. The primary approach needs to be speaking about the beauty of being a yid and Chassid – and looking like one – and how Chassidim were literally Moser nefesh to have a full beard.
Many years ago, in 5758, I spent a shabbas at the Chabad@Flamingo (Toronto) which is directed by Rabbi and Mrs. Mendel Kaplan, It was a frosty shabbas morning and we walked to Chabad Gate (half-hour) to go to the Mikva before Davening. During our walk, Rabbi Mendel Kaplan shared the following: Some of his Balebatim ask him why he walks such a distance – in the freezing weather – just to go to the Mikva. He does not answer them what is says is sefarim about Mikva, rather answers the following: “If chassidim in Russia broke ice to go to the Mikva, I could and should walk the half hour in a warm coat to go to a nice and warm indoor Mikvah.”
It is only after we say “Ata Beachrtanu mekol Ha’amim – Hashem has chosen us from all the nations” that we continue to say “Vikitashtanu B’mitzvosecha – you sanctified us with your Mitzvos”. Instilling a true Geon Yaakov in being a Yid and chassid of the Rebbe – and then explaining what badges of honor and appropriate actions and behaviors comes along with that – is the only way that the values we work so hard to engrain and instill in our children and talmidim will be long lasting and meaningful.
Wishing everyone a Kesiva Vachasima TovA, much Chassidishe Nachas from all your children, and Moshiach now!
If you have comments, questions or ideas, please write in the comment section below or email me directly at [email protected]
Tznius and beard?! At the same time! Wow!
the medium to long wigs are not tzinius
The Rebbe never stressed the length of the wigs. He stressed wigs.
they make most people look better than their real hair is.
they make jews with naturally curly hair who wear the long straight wigs look like goyim.
they frequently are thicker and longer than someone’s real hair is.
they are a different color than someone whose hair is gray, making them look younger.
it’s time for them to throw away the long wigs.
None of these are an issue. The hair must be covered. Wigs do that better than scarves.
scarves cover hair way better than wigs
The Rebbe said that women should wear shaitels.
Is the opposite of the rebbe’s opinion. Wigs cover much better than scarves
long fashion wigs are not tzinius and they do not cover better than scarves. If you’re having that problem, buy a different type of scarf or hat.
when a woman wears a long wig someone might mistake her as being single and not know she’s wearing a wig, and think that’s her real hair.
The Rebbe had said that long hair of the head should be tied back.
the only man you are supposed to attract is your husband. That’s one of the reasons women have to cover their hair from other men. A long fashion wig just makes them look more attractive than their normal hair.
“they are a different color than someone whose hair is gray, making them look younger.
it’s time for them to throw away the long wigs.”
Yes, it’s time to start buying short wigs. You know which ones I mean, the ones that change colors with your hair!
How many women do you see in long wigs by the Rebbe?
The reason you don’t see images of women, with long wigs is because that was not the fashion for back then as well as a lot of wigs, weren’t even using human hair, which would not look have looked that great!
I learned that the Chabad standard is that wigs should not be longer than shoulder length. And the Rebbe stated specifically that girls who have long hair should “gather” it.
As for fashion, there is a well-known story that at one point during the Rebbe’s nesius the big fashion designers in Europe started showing long skirts, the Rebbe said chas veshalom that Jewish women should wear long skirts because fashion designers are pushing them (i.e. instead of because a bas melech knows that her value resides in her character, not her outward appearance, kol kevuda bas melech penima).
the rebbe all ways wanted the women to dress the same tznius standard as the rebetzen and at the time that was taught to the girls
social media and having pictures of women online is not tzinius, whether it was them or someone else who posted it
A big part of lower tznius standards is addressing the traumatic way that tznius was taught for many years.
I think this is what the author is really saying
Very good excuse
No, it is a direct effect of people simply not caring and being influenced by the outside
Tznius standards have suffered across all communities
To much sugar in the coffee, no good
It was never taught
Ask your average Lubavitch girl if they’re answering truthfully we all know that our “teachers” were scared to even have the word tznius leave their mouth
So yes in short tznius isn’t taught in our education system unfortunately
why wasn’t it taught
Beautifuly said:)
Tznius and beards are the result. What’s the root cause, well in one word “acher” Once you’re made to feel “acher” its the beginning of the end. The question isn’t “Tznius & beards”, the question is how are we treating each other!
I think what people fall into the bandwagon of is “loving and treating each other nicely” is the be all and end all. As much as it is important, so is halacha, so is hashkafa, so are minhagim. They are all equally important. So when the lack of tznius/beards/fill in the blank is brought up, no reason to deflect the issue at hand and say well “that’s not important, only treating others is”. They are ALL important.
So true
When we see others or something, its a lesson to apply to ourselves
What does one have to do with the other?
Beautiful approach and insight. Thanks for sharing this important point with us.
Rabbi Gershon Avtzon,
thank you for bringing up Tzinius. Can you or anyone reading this who wants to, please bring it up to all the other nonchabad frum communities too
We’ll said
Reminds me of a beautiful clip by Rav Adin Even Israel Steinsaltz on the 2 Melodies Jews have about their Yoddishkeit.
https://youtu.be/mjzn6sUz_3Q
Thank you Rabbi Avtzon for continuesly sharing your Chinuch based perspective on so many important topics! Keep it up and I hope you do not stop once shanas Hakhel is over….
I’ll start growing my beard
I’m throwing out my mini skirts.
Shidduch?
You guys are amazing
amazing! really really good for you, beyond words!
so so incredible shkoyach, its amazing to hear!
דברים מין הלב נכנסים אל הלב
Its punkt fakert. What you are proposing is what has been happening for years. The results are clear. A yungerman does chitas and Rambam but doesnt EVER go to Minyan. He goes to Mikvah but always misses zman krias shema. All this because he was inoculated with the ‘additions’ and the main stuff was neglected. Hoikar Choser min hasefer. We have yungerleit that are clean shaven with a wedding ring but wear a kapota. Again for the same reasons. Emphasis needs to be given on the basics. We must understand that one can be ‘frum’ but not ‘chassidish’. but one… Read more »
The Rebbe spoke about the importance of sharing Chassidishe stories…
If someone responds oh well it’s Yeridos Hadoros…that’s not an answer! A Chossid is a Mahalech and needs to do his/her best to go Lifnei Mishuras Hadin! These chassidishe concepts need to be taught!!
Yeridas hadoros resulted in aliyas haskirts
Selling them that the beard is halocho doesn’t really work. Halocho feels restricting. It needs to be a positive approach. the brochos we receive from the beard etc and the nachas we are giving to hashem. It needs to be a positive foundation
We’re not selling anyone anything
I kind of agree with you. I think traditionally if someone had a beard it meant they kept to a certain standard. It is not like that anymore. I know there are many bachurim/young men who have beards but barely keep any of the mitzvos, barely frum. The basics are more important than the beard. The beard is only a symbol but actual actions of keeping torah and mitzvos are more important. Don’t hide behind a beard. I know of someone who called himself a “chassidish bachur”, beard etc, yet he did things that I don’t think are befitting for… Read more »
Sometimes I think it’s better NOT to have a beard that way a Bochur might still ask them to put on teffilin. With a beard no bochur in the right mind will ask a fully bearded “chassidish yungerman” if he put on teffilin and then he’ll never end up being mkayem mitzvas hanochas teffilin ever again!
100%
Isn’t having a beard a mitzvah in its own right? How could someone know the value of one mitzvah over another?
Many other kehilos tried your approach when they came to America…and their grandchildren become baal teshuva at CHABAD mosdos!
not because of lubavitch! Big difference!
He’s saying that people who tried your approach went off the derech…and brought back by chabad
Good piece.
Really want moshiach so this dark golus won’t get in our way anymore.
Rabbi Avtzon thank you for taking about topics that are so relevant and in such a clear way. Kol hakovod to you !
Sorry, but comparing a trimmed beard to not dressing modestly is literally comparing apples and oranges. There are many refined frum men who trim their their beard, and the author fails to mention that halachik authorities (the majority opinion outside chabad circles) clearly allow it in accordance with torah and halacha.
This is a Chabad news site. The HALACHIC poskim (including some of the Chabad Rebbeim who paskened Halacha) of Chabad have very clear views about trimmed beards which make a trimmed beard a HALACHIC issue.
I’m not sure which circles you come from, but on a Chabad website I️ think it’s reasonable to expect that authors would hold by the opinions of Chabad poskim and call them full on Halacha.
There’s a very powerful sicha that I learnt 2 years ago so don’t remember the details properly. The gist of it tho was about someone who thinks to himself how can I do something “extra”, when I’m not doing the basics. The Rebbe goes on to say that this is the yetzer hara and altho it doesn’t seem right to put on a tie without a suit – nevertheless we shouldn’t make these cheshboinos and we should do as many good things as we can, even if it doesn’t seem to be the right order. Extremely powerful. If anyone knows… Read more »
Likkutei Sichos Chelek Yud Tes, page 89
chelek 19
parshas eikev
sicha 1 page 89
Literally most poskim not chabad say you cant trim or touch your beard. I believe collive did an article about it a bit ago. But next time think before you make a claim with such confidence. And the thing about “there are refined men who trim their beards” as much as i love every jew and i dont judge, nonetheless the emes is that someone who trims his beard is usually doing it to look presentable or attractive (not talking about people who shave or trim because of a special circumstance) but these are the facts and I promise you… Read more »
According to the tzemech tzedek it is assur to even cut the beard and since we are Chabada we follow the tzemech tzedek
Um,,, the author is a chabad rabbi who is writing to the chabad community….
what is the isur (deoraisa) of wearing a long shaitel, nor covering knees (which are muter things according to alot of poskim)
but even above the knee, is that more asur than beards? no its not, shaving is a chiyuv malkos (even with an electric shaver according to most posking today) and trimming is an isur dioraisa according to the tzemach tzedek. (biasrai dirav halacha krav)
p.s. im not saying people should be makil on tznius like those poskim, we need to follow the rebbe’s shita, just pointing out that beards al pi halacha is more chamur.
Tznuis became a big Taboo word…unfortunately Tznuis is extremely peer pressured…those who are “Tznuis” are put into the “Chassidish” nerdy group/category. It’s time to reclaim the narrative!! Chassidish and Tznuis are not nerdy but cool!
You can forget about the word Tznuis and use the word Tznius instead 🙂
Two totally unrelated topics, Tznius is halacha beards is not
Having a beard is chasidus
The Chabad Rebbes – and this article in on a chabad website – hold that it is halacha. period.
That’s simply not true
Beard is mitzva min hatorah, totally assur. Tznius is maybe midrabanan.
Tznius is min Hatorah
The reason we keep our beard is because the צמח צדק held that it’s completely אסור to touch the beard in any way.
Hadras panim zaken. Come back and confirm your up or downvote afterwards. If you still feel to upvote is right, go ahead
Isn’t the above most important? This comes much before eating split chickens! I can’t imagine this article making a difference at all! What about stressing “kabed es avicha ve’es imecha”? The chutzpah our adult children have, after everything we as parents were moiser nefesh to do for them, why is this not stressed at all in our schools? When registering for school, Instead of asking what type of phone we have, do we have a television in our homes, the question should be ‘do you call your parents to wish them a gut shabbos? Do you make sure your children… Read more »
Feel free to write your own op Ed. But I will say one thing to you. There’s usually a reason that your children or grandkids aren’t calling you. Maybe you are too judge mental and critical. I’m not saying this is the reason but you should look inwards instead of complaining on col
It’s not easy keeping Kabed es Avicha ve’es imecha.
hence the great rewards
“When registering for school, Instead of asking what type of phone we have, do we have a television in our homes, the question should be ‘do you call your parents to wish them a gut shabbos? Do you make sure your children call their bubby and Zaidy?”
They are all important questions and should ALL be asked
Your point may be correct but the author is speaking about another topic.
On your topic, yes.
Scary scary how we sacrifice decades to give our children the best possible childhoods and they get married move on and all is forgotten save for a few token thank yous.
Take pictures of everything and all the experiences you have them LOL!!!!!
Nonesense! There are 613 mitzvos, and you’re not neglecting one mitzvah because you’re busy with another. You can do BOTH!
no one should have a tv in their home anyway.
They have phones ,which are tvs you can take anywhere … with way more garbage on it.
why doesn’t everyone just get rid of their smart phones and buy gps devices if that’s why they need a smart phone
Relationships are supposed to be natural. The son or daughter should enjoy speaking to their parents or grandparents, if they don’t there’s probably a reason for it.. Not to say there’s no mitzvah if it’s not a healthy relationship, but it definitely makes the mitzvah alot more enjoyable and meaningful
Sorry to break it to you, but beards and tznius happen to be more important than honoring parents.
The Torah puts honoring parents near shabbos, which teaches us, according to halacha, that Shabbos and all other mitzvos and halachos precede honoring parents.
Specifically about beards, we know of many letters from the Rebbe that when it comes to beards, one need not worry if the parents don’t give permission to have it.
What does one got to do with the other? The Rebbe is not saying it’s more or less important. The Rebbe is saying that doing the correct thing does not interfere with Kibud Av Vaem according to the Toiroh.
Thank you for sharing this topic! Very importent!
I have started to refer to these things in my home as hiddurim. I was raised with split chicken and I have brought it to my home as well. I try to be extra careful with tznius, especially in the area of necklines. I do not view it as a chumrah. I view it as a hiddur. Perspective: this is my hiddur for kashrus. (It isn’t available where I live, while regular Lubavitch Shechitah is.) This is something I have chosen for tznius. (And, yes, I am fixing almost everything I buy, or skipping things that I know cannot be… Read more »
where do you buy your clothing? I’ve noticed how difficult it is to find clothing that fits more strict rules
To be honest I find more modest clothes in the non jewish stores at times than the jewish stores. Seems like it’s popular for some of the jewish stores to sell a short dress that I see people wear pants under or they’ll just forgo it and wear the dress despite it not covering the knee…
what is “split-chicken” and “turkey”
i’m a beginner and don’t know what you are talking about
Some Halachik opinions require cut through the breast bone of a bird before kashering it. Most hechsherim don’t follow that opinion and there are those that only eat chickens that were Kashered that way. Hence the name “splits” refer to cutting the breast bone before salting the chicken.
Many descendants of the של”ה הקדוש avoid eating Turkey based on his guidance.
why do they need the cut there?
What was his reasoning for avoiding turkey?
so the salt should reach all parts of the chicken. the issue with turkey is as there are different breeds of turkey the shala said we don’t know if they are kosher meaning to say it all goes what our privies rabiem have taught us what breeds are kosher so rathe don’t eat them
To be a Chosid, one has to want to be one. It is not enough to be born in a Chassidishe family.
Each person is a unique individual and should never be judged as “bad” or “good”. We need to love every Yid for who they are without judging anyone. Only Hashem can do that.
There are no guarantees that children will be as frum as their parents. We just need to love them for who they are. The more we “judge” the further away they will go.
Some people think that “not judging” means no authority. That is completely destructive to children’s chinuch.
This!!!
Chassidus is not the same as halacha.
Chassidus incorporates halacha and demands standards beyond it (lifnim mishuras hadin).
i love guys who eat cholov yisroel, pas yisroel, and bishuel yisroel. Then, fill in the gaps, this is the way we are brought up!
I identify with what the author said. I grew up Chabad, and went through the Yeshiva system… but at the age of twenty, I started to trim my beard because I did not want to identify with the people wearing a beard.
Today bh, I am wearing a beard proudly, but if someone had taught me about the beauty of the beard, I may have never trimmed it.
It’s really surprising to read this type of article after all the growth and development, our community has gone through. I don’t know which world you are living in. In this day and age, nobody is meant to fit in a small little box. We should be very proud of our children that turned out to be refined and caring people doing the best they can to follow Halacha. If we are trying to keep our children in a box, we’re going to have very disappointing results. Each parent brings up their child the best way they know how, but… Read more »
I am sad that someone in a position of leadership can be so out of touch of what young people go through and need.
Well expressed and so true!
So well said!
where in the article there’s anything about someone being a “problem child”? Methinks there’s a bit of a guilty conscience at work here, in that you’re taking a call b’darkei noam uv’darkei shalom for maintaining standards as something hostile.
Maintaining standards? That’s for the individual or it means nothing and worse.
You have a problem with putting kids “into a box” – but then you offer your own box that you feel children should be put into: “We should be very proud of our children that turned out to be refined and caring people doing the best they can to follow Halacha.” So you think that this is all that’s important. A full beard or short dress is not a big deal. Well guess what? As religious Jews, we feel that Hashem decides what’s important. Hashem says that having a full beard is very important for a Jewish man to have… Read more »
There is a difference between power and control, and education and empowerment. I think you have good points in your comment but they don’t have to do with the article
Beautiful! And I’d suggest that we could treat ourselves as you so poignantly articulated for our children. You are a breath of fresh air.
a beard will probably make you look more attractive to the single women
And yet the man will say would you rather be attractive by beard inside – pnimiyus or beard outside?
To those I say forgot about attractive: focus your values on Hashem and our Rebbe. Hashem wishes you to have a beard. not for lubavitch sake but for Hashems sake! When you speak to single young women tell them your intentions, they’ll understand and decide if your values match or not.
This is evident by the fact that men who have no religious obligation to wear beards continue to grow them anyway. How often do you see a goy without a full beard? Never. Exactly.
How often do you see a goy WITH a beard is my question. Where do you live?
I am baal teshuva and the Chabad families I grew up around always dressed their daughters (and teenage daughters dressed) very tznius- wore tights all the time, knee socks under long skirts etc.
Today, at least where I live in Florida, many Chassidisher families even don’t dress their girls Tznius at age 3. Even older girls wear short sleeves.. it’s just sad to me.
I get that it’s sad to you but maybe you wouldn’t be so sad if you changed your mindset to one of more acceptance of peoples decisions just as many families of bal teshuva lean to accept the decisions of their children becoming Frum.
acceptance of decisions based on what Torah says and thus baali teshuva dont obey their parents and do what Torah says or you decided to do what your mother says because she decided how Torah should to be. 2 way street m’lady. Yes lubavitch is very sad to look at today.
Are you saying it’s ok for girls to have short sleeves and short skirts you don’t believe in Shulchan aruch ?! . It’s one thing to have nisyonos and not be able to be misgaber but at least realize it’s wrong and daven that Hashem gives you the strength to be misgaber but to say lichatchilah that it’s ok? How could a yid who believes in Hashem talk like that
i dont beleive in shulchan aruch. i beleive in hashem, hashem wants me to keep halacha. hashem also wants me to love every jew even if he doesn’t keep halacha. (see tanya chapter 32)
you sound like you need to learn more chassidus
If you see someone in a painful situation, I’d assume you’d feel bad for them. Doesn’t mean you think they’re bad or lower. On the contrary, your sad because you love him
Yes, there is the other way, but why would you just throw this at someone you never met and doesn’t imply at all the latter in his comment (on the other hand, yours may do so in a way)
It’s chutzpah how someone can come into a frum society and start judging others that have struggles. Welcome to the frum world just because your excited about yiddishkeit doesn’t mean that everyone else is.
Dont preach to others what you are not practicing. It’s called decency. So much for ahavas yisrael. Dont like the truth? Dont customize Torah for your needs! It’s not struggles it’s your will against G-d’s! Grow up!
Its easy to see what percentage of the students in front of you trim their beard, or don’t dress to the standard you wish. You DONT know how many only eat split chicken at home, or don’t eat turkey – of these kids you ONLY know the kids who keep these things – though there are many who only keep these things at home – if that. So of this group you see the few that keep it – and applaud them. It’s apple and oranges.
The point may still be valid,but the mashal is weak.
Thank you, Rabbi Avtzon, for your excellent, courageous article.
I wish my children sheyichyu would respond to the be-proud-of-your-family, and remember-the-mesiras-nefesh-of-great-Chassidim-and-Jews, approaches, but these mostly have not appeared to work for us regarding tznius and beards in our parenting (maybe for some unusual, complex reasons). Even if our children keep Tznius and grow their beards, they complain about these approaches. I’d love to hear some other approaches if you know any. Wishing you and everyone great hatzlacha — KVCHT!
But learning chassidus is the deal. Having a relationship with we enjoy with the Aibeshter
i think it’s important to realize that many tinok shinishba jews have NO idea what tzinius is, were never taught it, and are not dressing that way AT ALL to attract attention, that’s just the only way they know, because no one ever taught them otherwise. one thing you can do is teach these tinok shinoshba jews about the Torah and tzinius in a completely nonjudgemental way. this is needed. don’t judge them at all, they don’t know any better. i know this is not what this article is talking about, but it is important. and someone needs to do… Read more »
We are talking about the standard in Lubavitch, what the Rebbe has said is so so important. This used to be the standard and yes people wore it as a thing of pride. Sadly I think social media has really negatively influenced many in our community
There are many boys who are simply not frum in any sense, (ie shabbos) yet have full beards and wear tzitzis out, even hats! To heck with the beards, start putting on tefillin and keeping shabbos!!
The same applies to girls with tznius. Clothing is secondary. Actions are the primary tznius obligation.
Beards doesn’t make anyone less frum, only more frum.
If they start keeping Shabbos, you’ll say “to heck with Shabbos, start putting on tefillin.” When they start putting on tefillin, you’ll say “To heck with teffilin, start honoring your parents!” (as a previous poster wrote)
A beard isn’t Halacha. Shabbos and tefillin are. Wearing a hat and jacket in the street certainly isn’t Halacha. These bochurim have the trappings of someone keeping every chumra yet neglect the Halacha.
Sure, having those things don’t make you less frum, but the emphasis in our community is on the chassidishe minhagim and chumras. It’s time to stop and make sure people keep halacha first.
Tznius is Halacha and beards are also extremely important and according to tzemach tzedek medioraysa
A beard isn’t halacha? Where are you from
1. Beards are halacha
2. Sometimes, dropping a minhag can be worse than halacha, since they are a symbol of your Yiddishkeit.
E.g. stopping to wear a Yarmulka can be worse than stopping negel vasser
At the same time, that is a dangerous statement. Walking down Kingston Ave in the summer is not a pretty sight when I see how some of the women/girls are dressed. “But I keep shabbos and Kosher so nothing else matters” is a common thing I’ve heard. We can’t just replace one sin for the next. Tznius is just as important and I think to use keeping certain aspects of frumkeit as an “excuse ” for why they dress less than is desired.
Kingston avenue has mamesh turned into the boardwalk at the beach
It’s not appropriate for a boy/bachur to roam there
its an isur deoraisa to stare at a women, (see rambam isurai bia)
its definetly not an isur deoraisa for a women to walk on kingston not dressed tzniusdik. and many halachas that people claim to be halacha, are chumras or allowed according to alot of poskim like from the knee and below, lace top shaitels, llon shaitels, tight clothing etc.
chosed bichsharim is also a bad avaira – see rambam hilchos teshuva
שלא שינו את שמם ולבושם
Many years ago, I was in the grocery store when I noticed the young daughter of someone I owed money to. The girl was about eleven, I think. I verified that she was the daughter of ploni, and then asked her to tell me her father’s first name, so I could write out a check. (Yes, this was about 45yrs ago.) The child shyly responded that she could not say her father’s name; one is not allowed to say one’s parent’s name. I was so impressed. I don’t know if, in this situation, a child could not provide that information.… Read more »
I remember once I once in a bakery in CH and a boy came in to buy a birthday cake for his father. The worker asked him what his fathers name is so he can write happy birthday ____ and the boy said I can’t say my fathers name. Just thought it was so cute
Aharone, the Cohen Gadol, was ohev Shalom and ohev es habrios and m’karvan l’Torah. First, emphasis must be placed on ahavas Yisroel. Do girls in the schools have ahavas Yisroel for one another or do some girls perceive themselves as better than others? Do the teachers love their students and bring them near to the Torah or are more interested in judging students? Also, tznius needs to be taught in terms of ahavas Yisroel – that how one dresses can have an affect on another. If we want daughters who will aspire to be like a Cohen Gadol, there needs… Read more »
Ahavas yisroel is the highest level of tznius:)
In a loving way, but he didn’t bring Torah close to them. He brought them close to the Torah…
Since when is tznius being adam lamakom? Could have some benefits there as well but…?
Re: to ensure that their kids are under the Tallis for Brichas Kohanim.
Where did this “invention” cone from??? That babies MUST be in the men’s shul under the talis? Huh?!
In the siddur it says that everyone is included in birkat kohanim, even if separated by a stone wall.
There is no need for children and babies (!!) to be under talis (crying!!), when they can be with their mothers!!!
Who created this “minhag” (unheard of elsewhere outside chabad)???
Hayom Yom brings that the Tzemach Tzedek went under the Alter Rebbe’s Tallis as a young kid
Came for the comments, stayed for the comments.
Did not disappoint.
I love you my brother. These comments are so unintentionally revealing of the commenters inner life and fear,
You get what you give
It’s easy to pick on external things. Let’s do the hard work on focusing on our internal selves: our middos, how we treat people, davening, hiskashrus etc.
why not do both internal and external
True true….people are just swapping 1 for the other and assigning more importance to whichever is easier for them to follow…
they are not just chitzoniyus. They are clear dinim in halacha which happen to be openly visible. they are just as internal
No one is saying that the internals don’t matter. That’s just not what the topic is. He is talking about tznius as in the clothing someone wears
My name is Mushkie and I am commenting about the relatively new minhag Chabad, unheard of in other communities, to bring children and even crying babies into the men’s shul for birkat kohanim. Re: “to ensure that their kids are under the Tallis for Brichas Kohanim.: Where did this “invention” cone from??? In the siddur it says that everyone is included in birkat kohanim, even if separated by a stone wall. There is no need for children and babies (!!) to be under talis (crying!!), when they can be with their mothers!!! Are mothers in the Ezras Noshim not included… Read more »
Proof: Ask any older chusid if this was the minhag when he was young and he will say no. Ask any young chusid if this was the minhag and he will say yes. Because…this is a newly invented “minhag”.
anyone want to host wig cutting and wig shortening parties in their communities to change their long wigs to shoulder or shorter length? and where people can get scarves at the event for free
please post resources for needy jews to get tzinius clothing for free or a very low price
and places or websites where other people can donate these items to
how often did the rebbe talk about tznius? dayo laeved lihios kirabo other kehillos make asifos every week or month about tznius, it dosent help anything other than to let the speakers vent, and to bring machshava zaros by the listeners, and makes them have a bad feeling about the rabbonim. i agree it should be tought about in the schools but its already happening, and the more one learns about it he sees that many things are just minhagim or chumros so he can be lenient being to strict backfires, especially when the mosdos push it on people. instaed… Read more »