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Saturday, 19 Nisan, 5784
  |  April 27, 2024

Is It Time to Rethink the Bochur-Family Relationship?

Op-Ed by Rabbi Gershon Avtzon: "There is a common perception in the Chinuch institutions that Bochurim should have a distant relationship with their parents and families and I feel that it is time to change the mindset completely." Full Story

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Well said
February 18, 2023 7:28 pm

It’s nice to see someone who is will to read AND think. Not just read.

Boys need their families!
February 18, 2023 7:28 pm

If we want our Bochurim to mature into healthy individuals, and future fathers, Shul him, and husbands, then they need the warmth and connection of their families. Why abandon a totally necessary and healthy attachment need?

Mom
Reply to  Boys need their families!
February 19, 2023 8:42 am

I agree it saddens me

Yes!!!!
February 18, 2023 7:33 pm

I’d like to add one thing: from the day a child enters pre1a, he enters a world of Yeshiva and removal (to some extent) from family life. In Yeshiva 6 FULL days a week, leaving only Shabbos as a time to bond. But between minyan and seudah, there really isn’t much time for that. Motzei Shabbos celebrations have to be cut short as Sunday morning school resumes.

When are the children practically meant to be bond with their parents? Their siblings? Why is this rigidity still happening!

Pre1A? Seriously?
Reply to  Yes!!!!
February 21, 2023 10:28 pm

So your saying we should abolish school? You have the option to home school if your want…

Are you kidding!?
Reply to  Pre1A? Seriously?
February 22, 2023 9:49 pm

No he’s not saying that you should abolish schools. Ok, chillax a little. You don’t need to be so dramatic. All he’s saying is that yeshivas should give a little more time for the kids to connect with their family.

Hmmmm
Reply to  Yes!!!!
February 21, 2023 10:29 pm

I agree with the article though not necessarily with your comment… In a real yeshiva, your not spending every shabbos with your family, and if I’m not mistaken, I don’t think the author meant it should be that way either

Not necessarily the case
February 18, 2023 7:51 pm

When I was in Yeshiva in 1992… Quite a while ago… I clearly remember the mashpia farbrenging before Pesach that when we go home for Pesach we should remember that mivtzoim begins at home…. If our parents need our help getting ready for yom tov, and we feel the need to run out on mivtzoim, that is probably coming from the yetzer hara etc. There are a bunch of different issues being raised in this article and not necessarily connected. But I’m my years of Yeshiva, and now having had several kids in yeshiva, I don’t think this is one… Read more »

Interesting
Reply to  Not necessarily the case
February 21, 2023 10:32 pm

As a bochur I agree, though yeshiva is sometimes a bit hard on reshus, depending on the (existent?) rationale of the particular menahel

what!
Reply to  Interesting
February 22, 2023 9:50 pm

IF you don’t want to spend time with you family then that’s your problem.

All due respect
February 18, 2023 8:01 pm

The key word is mothers. Mothers make boys helpless in their teens only that they are forced to rely on them so that when the boy enters shidduchim they can have no say in the matter but to marry the girl that the mother decided, even if its against their wish. Personally if the parents have a distant relationship with the boy, the boy CAN DECIDE AS A MAN TO LEAVE. HIS PARENTS HOUSE AND GET MARRIED (as the Torah says), who HE wants to marry and not be forced to marry a girl whom his mother decided. The shidduch… Read more »

Machshavah then Dibbur
Reply to  All due respect
February 19, 2023 8:12 am

Sounds like you are dealing with a personal circumstance that needs addressing. In general parents are there to guide based on their own past experience but yes a boy or girl must be able to make the ultimate decision of whether this is the right fit or not themselves.

You're right
Reply to  Machshavah then Dibbur
February 19, 2023 10:18 am

I’m dealing with a crown heightser personal circumstance that no rabbi would want to face so at least I can spread awareness that reality is a whole lot different and mothers MUST let go of their sons! (Which of course wont happen because sons minds are ALREADY molded that they cant live without their mother, and the son will support his mother… even though at the same time he disagrees with her)

You're right
Reply to  Machshavah then Dibbur
February 19, 2023 10:22 am

I’m dealing with a crown heightser personal circumstance that no rabbi would want to face so at least I can spread awareness that reality is a whole lot different and mothers MUST let go of their sons! (Which of course wont happen because sons minds are ALREADY molded that they cant live without their mother, and the son will support his mother… even though at the same time he disagrees with her) Some might continue the conversation by saying (because they also dont want to deal with it) “it only happened to you, it’s not everybody”. Nope I’m dealing/facing with… Read more »

I agree
Reply to  Machshavah then Dibbur
February 19, 2023 11:04 am

I’m dealing with a crown heightser personal circumstance that no rabbi would want to face so at least I can spread awareness that reality is a whole lot different and mothers MUST let go of their sons! (Which of course wont happen because sons minds are ALREADY molded that they cant live without their mother, and the son will support his mother… even though at the same time he disagrees with her) Some might continue the conversation by saying (because they also dont want to deal with it) “it only happened to you, it’s not everybody”. Nope I’m dealing/facing with… Read more »

Disgusting.
Reply to  All due respect
February 22, 2023 9:54 pm

who do you think raised you! A mother. Without parents (and mothers for that matter) are doing the best they could to ensure their child’s happiness. Without your mother you would not be int his world right now.
Mothers don’t force their child to get married to someone they don’t like.
The chutzpa that you have to criticize mothers.

Often the opposite
February 18, 2023 8:21 pm

Very often, parents are too involved in every aspect of their son’s life, and this stops him from maturing as a healthy adult.

Bochurim do not have to leave for every small family simcha or reunion. A bochur must remember that he is different, he is holy. His time is precious. Leaving yeshiva takes much consideration and only when completely necessary.

A healthy balance is needed.

So true
Reply to  Often the opposite
February 21, 2023 10:46 pm

So true. The relationship should be dependant on how the bochur would like it to be. There’s a mitzvah for the child to respect his parents, and that mitzvah belongs to the child, there is no mitzvah for the parents to expect their child to continuously update them on their life, and be completely involved and attached in every aspect of his or her life, giving comments and remarks advice not for the child’s sake, rather for yours, your nachas, your family reputation etc etc. And if a bochur doesn’t want to go to a simcha, that should be completely… Read more »

Esther(Benarroch)Michael
February 18, 2023 8:21 pm

I agree that they should HAVE a relationship WITH THERE PARENTS AND FAMILY! IT is very important to always have relationship with there families.

A bochur
February 18, 2023 8:27 pm

What in the world are you saying?? I’m a bochur in yeshiva like a normal bochur (just not right now for visa reasons) And yet I still have a very close family relationship.
So don’t talk till you experience it.

Machshavah then Dibbur
Reply to  A bochur
February 19, 2023 8:05 am

This view point was obviously not geared towards your situation.

Never
February 18, 2023 8:39 pm

והם (היים) לא ידעו דרכי!!!!!

Also in the times of Moshiach?
Reply to  Never
February 18, 2023 9:22 pm

As Rabbi Avtzon mentioned in the article, one of the truisms among Chassidim is that times do change. Does anyone disagree that according to the Rebbe we live in unique and different times?

Yes I agree
Reply to  Never
February 18, 2023 9:33 pm

I remember this vort from yeshiva a boy needs to become a man but I think it depends on which bochor from which family if a bucher can get off his mother’s wings that can be very healthy

Chaim
February 18, 2023 9:01 pm

I remember in Yeshiva there was a boy who was not allowed to travel home for his future brother in law ufruf and only go for the wedding.

He was so so sad!

Happy this conversation is happening.

Time to abolish Sunday school
February 18, 2023 9:23 pm

Bring back family time!!

if familiers would spend the time constructively
Reply to  Time to abolish Sunday school
February 18, 2023 10:40 pm

many will and many won’t
many parents are on phones/computers themselves and don’t talk that much to their kids
and many times even if the parents want to interact, the kids dont because they want to be on devices or with their friends so it does not end up being family time
and even more is that many kids will get involved in inappropriate things during this new free time
some parents work on Sundays…
it depends on the age, depends on the child, depends on the family
family time is very important, but it has to be constructive

Blanket statement?
Reply to  Time to abolish Sunday school
February 19, 2023 5:53 am

This may be your perception and opinion.

For many children, school is the safest, healthiest place that they can be on Sunday to escape the disfunction or worse (due to lack of structure etc) of their homes on day number 3 of the weekend….

Yeshiva on sunday
Reply to  Time to abolish Sunday school
February 19, 2023 6:36 am

1. Parents aren’t always spending the time effectively on Sunday, so it’s a hefker time. School on Sunday is less intense and less time – it gives the children proper structure to daven and learn. 2. Sunday as a day off is exclusively Christian based – it’s the vaticans attempt to change shabbas from Saturday to Sunday – kids off on a Sunday is not just secular, it’s similar to Halloween or other goyish holidays which have become secular (like Valentine’s Day too) which are directly sourced in heavy Avoda Zorah 3. For boys for sure, there is the chiyuv… Read more »

Sunday
Reply to  Yeshiva on sunday
February 19, 2023 7:48 am

It’s also important to remember that Sunday as a day off was instituted instead of shabbos, not in addition.

For many American businesses (not public schools which have a full day Friday) it’s still either or; either Sunday or Saturday off

Family time
Reply to  Time to abolish Sunday school
February 19, 2023 7:45 am

Wait a minute. Abolish? Kind of harsh, no?

You are free to keep your kid home if you would like. For many many “functional” families, Friday most of the day and all day shabbos are ample family time for between the longer vacations (Sukkos, Chanukah, etc)

Anonymous
February 18, 2023 9:26 pm

Rabbi Avtzon, you write many good articles about how to improve the chinuch of our children and teens. When will we see your article about the PANDEMIC of sexual abuse? No one is willing to address this massive destruction that kills the soul and and body of the children. Will you?

The deep core issues
Reply to  Anonymous
February 18, 2023 9:43 pm

The deep ones they will not address because they dont plan on confrontating the source of the problem. Even though they know it’s wrong halachacally and legally but they are afraid and will not deal with it.

Anonymous
Reply to  The deep core issues
February 18, 2023 11:50 pm

Yes! All cowards!

Oh please
Reply to  Anonymous
February 19, 2023 12:16 am

As if that’s the only issue we suffer from these days. (I’m NOT negating the fact that it’s an issue, but just because that problem exists doesn’t mean that they’re aren’t other problems that have to be dealt with).

Expand
Reply to  Anonymous
February 19, 2023 9:18 am

Is there really still a pandemic of sexual abuse in the lubavitch community in 2023? I’m actually curious if this is really still a massive issue?

Anonymous
Reply to  Expand
February 19, 2023 9:37 am

The cover up is that ruthless

Sadly yes
Reply to  Expand
February 19, 2023 10:19 am

Not in the form you’ve imagined, with abusers and victims , rather parents allowing children , either by handing them , or not properly supervising their children , from abusing themselves ! with a unfiltered device , my parents didn’t know to put a filter on our computer – yes this falls under the category of a pandemic of s….abuse . it’s not a isolated case , this is happening in (almost) every home , In crown heights on shlichus everywhere it’s a vicious attack that shuts down the internal processing system , and stunts growth in many areas including… Read more »

100%!!!
Reply to  Sadly yes
February 19, 2023 2:57 pm

Couldn’t be said better!!!

Do a Mitzva
Reply to  Sadly yes
February 19, 2023 5:37 pm

Do a mitzvah and contact the yeshivas and tell them about the illness right under their noses

Another well written op-Ed. HB 🎂Rabbi Avtzon
February 18, 2023 9:27 pm

הוי ‏מקבל את האמת ממי שאמרו
We should be willing to accept the truth when we hear it.

Good point
February 18, 2023 9:54 pm

As a mother and mechanech myself for over 20 years , I absolutely see the value of family relationships. And extended family just as much. I agree with you about allowing students to remain closely connected to them all through simchas. It’s a brocha to have family and an added gift to have simchos! BH

Yasher Koach!!
Reply to  Good point
February 19, 2023 1:38 am

Yes, Grandparents should be involved also

2 other aspects
February 18, 2023 10:00 pm

Addressing boys chinuch in general- the long schedule away from home ( even when you go to yeshiva in town) does not work well for many boys. It is producing detrimental effects in many cases. Also , boys who are sent away are being raised by young dorm counselors, some have amazing hashpah and do a great job but many are immature and will never care as much about your child as you do. How does this impact your sons personal development? Family life has so much to add to a boys growth and development and ability to be a… Read more »

Dorm counselors?!
Reply to  2 other aspects
February 19, 2023 1:57 am

A dorm counselors job is not to become the parent of your kid. To even make a comparison is silly. All a dorm counselor does is make sure your kid goes to sleep. That’s where his job ends. The job of worrying and caring for your son is up to you and the Hanhala. Dorm counselors are bochurim who are usually doing Semicha and have a full day learning schedule. They are still Bochurim themselves and don’t have time to be a parent a parent for 30 (or more) kids. Anyways, the fact that someone would trust a Bachur to… Read more »

Dorm Counselor
Reply to  Dorm counselors?!
February 19, 2023 10:29 am

Ironic indeed that this message was posted at 1:57 am… Hopefully this dorm counselor is very dedicated and constantly checking on his Teyere Bochurim all the way to this late hour and that’s the only thing keeping him up. And a “full day learning schedule” too… Amazing!

Actually…
Reply to  Dorm Counselor
February 19, 2023 3:26 pm

Since you seem so curious about my personal life, I was actually up then because I was dealing with things that come along with the dorm counselor job until then…
Anything else you want to know?

a dedicated dorm counselor
Reply to  Dorm counselors?!
February 19, 2023 9:11 pm

is much more than someone who makes sure the kids go to bed on time
and should be there kind of like a parent away from home

Not disagreeing
Reply to  a dedicated dorm counselor
February 19, 2023 11:13 pm

It definitely would be a nice thing to have a dorm counselor who fills the role you describe. What I am saying is, to have that, you would need to get married people who have experience and training to fill such a role. The standard dorm counselor Yeshivos have are bochurim who do not have that experience or training. So frankly I’m not sure if you would want them to be doing more than making sure the kids go to bed. It may just make things worse having someone young and inexperienced deal with such things. This is from the… Read more »

My home is not chassidish
February 18, 2023 10:39 pm

Who are you kidding? My home has unfiltered wifi. My home has secular books, faahion magazines and literature unsuitable for a chassudish bochur. My home reeks of gashmiyus and ta’anugei olom hazeh as fitting for a grobeh baal habayis. When my son spends a few days at home, all your hard work over many months to develop my son to be more into ruchniyus, gets flushed down the toilet. As parents, we know we are grobeh behaymos. We sent you are son to be at Har Sinai, removed from Mitzrayim. We want him to not be like us. We want… Read more »

The answer you clearly know
Reply to  My home is not chassidish
February 18, 2023 11:22 pm

If you really cared about your children and the chinuch they are getting you would make sure that your home is a place of kedusha and tahara

Easier said than done
Reply to  The answer you clearly know
February 19, 2023 6:42 am

A house is made of 2 parents that hopefully work with each other…that being said, change takes a long time in a relationship and with many young Anash watching movies etc on phones – among many other issues, even when one parent wants to change the household, it can take many years of positive reinforcement for those changes to happen in a way of Sholom bayis.

Excuses
Reply to  Easier said than done
February 19, 2023 2:16 pm

A couple that are not willing to work together for the sake of the spiritual well-being of their children need marriage counseling

Not so simple
Reply to  The answer you clearly know
February 19, 2023 5:39 pm

There are people who are mature enough to acknowledge that there are those who can do a better job than them educating their boys.

Speak for yourself
Reply to  My home is not chassidish
February 19, 2023 1:47 am

My home is one of kedusha, where each child Is taught to fulfill the mitzvos that they are taught. The home and school should be in sync. Perhaps, you as a baal habayis should find what you want to work on for yourself so that your home can contribute to your children’s growth. Wishing you beracha v’hatzlacha

Kop Doktar
Reply to  Speak for yourself
February 20, 2023 1:46 pm

Your home is one of kedusha – by which standard???

The Bais Hamikdosh had an azarah, and also a kodesh, and also a kodesh kadoshim.

Is your home like the azarah of the Bais Hamikdosh or the kodesh kadashim?!!

Is your home like the kedusha of Yerushalayim, or the Har Habayis, or the Bais Hamikdosh???!!

There are LEVELS!!!

I think that’s what this bochur means!

The level of a home – even your holy home, is not the same as the level of yeshiva!

Dovid
Reply to  My home is not chassidish
February 19, 2023 9:14 am

This was obviously written by a Bochur who is using internet to access COLlive.

Unfortunately these cases do exist. In that case you should speak to your mashpia to figure out what to do. But, on a whole, it is damaging for children to be separated from their families. And should be discussed on an individual basis, not as a rule for everyone.

Not true.
Reply to  Dovid
February 19, 2023 10:53 am

There is not a single bochur in a Lubavitcher yeshiva who has access to the Ossur-net

Agreed, but...
Reply to  My home is not chassidish
February 19, 2023 10:01 am

I completely agree with this comment, but it is clear that the commenter is a bochur who is struggling from these problems at home. Not a parent.

Read the article
Reply to  Agreed, but...
February 19, 2023 11:33 am

Here is the most important point: You show that you are true partners with the Yeshivos by striving to run your homes with the standards that their children are being educated in the Mosdos. There is nothing more confusing to a child, and detrimental to his chinuch, when he sees a dual standard by his two biggest support systems i.e. his parents and his Yeshiva.

As a Mechanech
Reply to  My home is not chassidish
February 19, 2023 11:34 am

It is far and few in between to see a boy that comes from the house you describe and stay “chassidsh” through all his years in yeshiva and beyond,,,,
parents need to wake up,…
yeshiva needs partners,…

Kop Doktar
Reply to  As a Mechanech
February 20, 2023 1:42 pm

I think this “bochur” described most homes.

Even, as one person (“Speak for yourself”) wrote, “my house is chassidish”, which is open to interpretation – by which standards???

The Bais Hamikdosh had an azarah, and also a kodesh, and also a kodesh kadoshim.

Is your home like the azarah of the Bais Hamikdosh or the kodesh kadashim?!!

atmosphere at family events
February 18, 2023 10:44 pm

sometimes it may be a good thing that your child miss a extended family event
unfortunately there may be events that can undo where a child may have gotten to in Yeshiva or school because the things that go on there are not in line with the Torah

so true
Reply to  atmosphere at family events
February 19, 2023 9:20 pm

it’s important to think if you want your child in certain environments, be it non-jewish music, exposure to inappropriate content, settings without proper mechitza, mixed dancing, unhealthy situations, lots of non tznius situations, substance use, some children can be in certain situations and not join and some may not be able to, exposure to inappropriate or unhealthy situations must be thought about, also some kids have difficulty getting back into routine after being away from school

Read the article
Reply to  atmosphere at family events
February 20, 2023 10:22 am

The author did not say that a child should go to every event,
These are things that the PARENTS should think about before requesting permission for a child to attend
the author just said that IF a parent feels that a certain event is important, the Hanhalla should take that as a serious consideration (and not always give in regardless)

Bring really family time back
February 19, 2023 12:27 am

Push your child on the swing -with your phone out of sight and sound.

Go on a date with your child , phone out of sight and sound -no posting on social media or that’s a date with your phone

Game time -real board games , building , experiments where we look and talk to each other.

It’s great to talk about connection but merely being in someone’s physical presence while they are distracted can unfortunately cause more harm than good.

Quality time
February 19, 2023 12:39 am

It’s not just about spending time with your child, it’s about the quality of the time. It should be a priority for parents to build a real deep relationship with each child. This is the best thing you can so for your children

Soldiers
February 19, 2023 5:39 am

We are the rebbes soldiers we cannot leave the fort of yeshiva empty. The rebbe did NOT want bochurim to leave koslei hayeshiva

Very weak argument
February 19, 2023 5:48 am

Many times Rabbi avtzon writes sound, logical pieces. This time, not so much.

1) Yeshiva standards didn’t (and shouldn’t) change. Cost and ease of travel did!

2) What on earth does the fact that a married man should be together with his wife and kids have to do with a yeshiva bochur?

3) What’s the connection with the fact that the Rebbe visited his mother daily?
Rebbetzen chana was a widow, and had the Rebbe as her only close family member.
And, the Rebbe wasn’t a yeshiva bochur!

Thank you!
Reply to  Very weak argument
February 19, 2023 10:02 am

Very well written!

I suggest that you write an op-ed response.

Spending money on family simchas
February 19, 2023 6:47 am

An interesting point is whether it’s a good idea to encourage this phenomenon of family spending money to bring their children to simchos. For some who have the means or their children aren’t too far away, it’s not a big deal, but for others it’s a very expensive trip.

The peer pressure this creates is unmeasurable and overall is another extravagance of todays go-into-debt-for-a-simcha culture.

Maybe just another thing to think about before encouraging boys to go home for simchas.

Simchos
Reply to  Spending money on family simchas
February 19, 2023 7:51 am

Lots of mingling goes on by the simchos.

Does Rabbi A want his bochurim hanging around with the girl cousins?

if it helps
Reply to  Simchos
February 21, 2023 1:25 pm

if it helps with the shidduch crisis, why not

Let’s be practical..
February 19, 2023 8:39 am

If crown heights schools coordinated vacations then families would have time to connect and bond and the children can see how much the schools understand and promote family time.
Also-maybe the schools should encourage boys to join their family meal Friday night at 6:00 ( many have young kids and take the opportunity on winter shabbos to start early..instead of insisting that they need to be in Yeshiva until after Seder which can be 7:30.) the older boys come home frustrated and angry at the system.

It’s time to change the system!!!!!
February 19, 2023 9:46 am

Our kids are struggling and we aren’t doing anything about it!!!

Heartbreaking
February 19, 2023 9:52 am

The intellectual dishonesty is appalling. For years, the chinuch mosdos preach partnering with parents. One look at this article and comments shows the parents are not thought of much at all.

Writing with tears…
February 19, 2023 10:46 am

..Tears of joy … for the Author having the courage to self-reflect and to question the effectiveness of applying a 100+ year old approach in the 21st century. … Tears of the immense pain… for the 14 year old bochur, who begged for permission to attend his brother’s bar mitzvah and his Rosh Yeshiva (aka the Author of this article) unapologetically told him “I give you no permission to go and if you leave yeshiva and go, you can never come back”. The 14 year old boy was crushed by his Rosh Yeshiva’s utter lack of empathy. Considering the strong… Read more »

shmuel
Reply to  Writing with tears…
February 21, 2023 1:37 am

Don’t believe that story, I am 100 percent sure there is more to it.

Believe it or not....
Reply to  shmuel
February 22, 2023 8:24 pm

….Unfortunately, the story is true.

Of course there is more to the story. People make choices based on the MANY experiences they’ve had.

Happy to see such a artical
February 19, 2023 11:45 am

As much as the yeshiva wants the bacbur feel at “home” in yeshiva, and be there for the bachur like his parents. This is simply an illusion!! The yeshiva is NOT a home for a bachur its a dorm for a limited amount of time. And the mashpim are NOT his parents and should try to fake it. Its really important that the hanhala of yeshiva know where thier role starts and where it ends and not overreach into a bachurs life and leave his personal space to himself and his parents. Having inmind that there is an end to… Read more »

Call
February 19, 2023 12:05 pm

All my siblings and I would call home every single night even just for a few minutes and we have a very strong relationship with our parents and siblings.
My parents were not hyper-controlling us or helicoptering us, they gave us suggestions and were somehow always right.

Brains!
February 19, 2023 1:00 pm

Right, so your saying that parents that smoke weed and watch who knows what and at the same time they expect yeshivas to teach them how to be a chossid?!

Mushkie
Reply to  Brains!
February 21, 2023 2:27 pm

Everyone wants their kids to be chassidish, even parents that smoke weed and watch who knows what. We all want the best for our children and deep down we know what is good for them, even if we live differently. The problem is that we want the yeshiva to chill down a bit, and not be too “extreme” chassidish. You know, be a “light” chosid. And from there we created the stream of “Lubavitch Light” (just like Judaism has Conservative or Reform streams – still Jewish just “light”). You can be Jew without shabbos or kosher. You can be a… Read more »

...
February 19, 2023 4:20 pm

I dont know what this whole thing is about. I went to the Shluchim online school and most of had unlimited access to the internet (for an unlimited time) and we knew much more than what most people would think yet we never touched anything goyish and respected the trust we had not to be on the computer all day. Probably because our parents are not on their phones all day and would never watched these things that we barely know what it is.

Just saying
February 19, 2023 6:23 pm

A yeshiva it is NOT a place to replace family. No one guarantees you will have friends. Or that hanahala will be there for you (besides for the “no” that you already know you will get everytime you would like to do something). I would not forgive this cold atitude and the not understanding the needs of a bachur in HIS OWN level. Certainly a menahel or whatveer will NEVER be able to treat a bochur like his own child. This non sense and cringe saying ” chasidim a family” has to stop. Either WORK HARD to make it to… Read more »

Spot On
February 19, 2023 7:42 pm

I can’t agree with you more, having experienced this in my own situation and now dealing with a son in Mesivta. I left home at the age of 14 over 35 years ago and for all intents and purposes never really came back. I would visit periodically for yomim tovim etc but preferred to be in crown heights for any and all free time rather than visit my family. It’s only now years later that I realize how estranged I was from my parents and really could have used the warm environment of family and guidance that I completely missed… Read more »

Exactly this
Reply to  Spot On
February 21, 2023 9:42 pm

Add to this the conections with rest of the family. No one is giving us the time lost and no one seems to care or take responsability..

Comment on: My home is not chassidish
February 20, 2023 12:27 pm

I am writing to the bochur that posted above “My home is not chassidish”: Dear Bochur, You wrote your comment as if your father was writing it, but you wrote from your heart. That’s why you got a bunch of replies! Words from the heart are heard. You complain about your home. Know this: Your true home is yeshiva. The house of your parents is your sukkah. Your ultimate complaint is why does Rabbi Avtzon pretend to side with the parents when he knows the emes. There is a need to have “allies”, even for a temporary stage of getting… Read more »

Chosid
Reply to  Comment on: My home is not chassidish
February 21, 2023 2:18 pm

Hasn’t the Rebbe OFTEN spoken that a bochur is like the soldiers of King Dovid, that they were required to write a Get to their family before embarking on their mission (of learning in Yeshiva)????

A Get is a Sefer Krisus – to be cut off!!!

Rabbi Avtzon, are you agreeing with what the Rebbe often said, or are you taking a new approach (because times have changed)????

Real issues. Nothing to do with family simchas.
February 20, 2023 4:09 pm

There are many many issues that face the yashive world. Some big ones too. I dont think your sister-in-laws cousins wedding is really the issue. Any normal mashgiach in a yeshiva with semi normal judgment can figure that out. Ye helllo we have some real issues. Who will father the next generation if not these bocherim. ???!?!? We gotta actually give them some life skills and maybe some actual attention instead of calling them add adhd and other stuff. They dont need doctors and they dont need parents. They need someone to spark their curiosity. I had that feeling once… Read more »

Chosid
February 20, 2023 6:59 pm

In the good old days we were taught:
The Rebbe is your father, Tomchei Tmimim is your mother.and your chaveirim are your brothers. That is a bochur’s family.

"In the good OLD days"
Reply to  Chosid
February 21, 2023 3:04 am

“In the good OLD days”
Times have changed.
Everything is different today (sadly).

Kop Doktar
Reply to  "In the good OLD days"
February 21, 2023 2:13 pm

As the possuk tells us. we pine for: חדש ימינו כקדם (that the days of old return to us)!

Or the oft-quoted Mishneh (ערלה ג ט) that: חדש אסור מן התורה

As the Chasam Sofer applies it to ALL new/modern חדש
approaches that stray from the tried and true past, which is all ossur!! (see: שו”ת חתם סופר חלק א (אורח חיים), סי׳ קמח and סי׳ קפא, and in חלק ב (יורה דעה) סימן יט).

Times HAVE indeed changed – and the golus has gotten much darker and our connection to ruchniyus has gotten WORSE!

That again
Reply to  Kop Doktar
February 22, 2023 1:57 pm

The generation hasn’t gone lower,if anything higher, alot of things were more hush hush back than,humans have always been up to the same things, the old days were more barbaric , we have the highest souls in this generation, young and old

True
February 21, 2023 5:13 pm

This is a article that is 100% true as i am going through this that i left Yeshiva because of yeshiva saying no to me when i wanted to go home to visit. I am a bochur that is writing. Why are the parents commenting? the Bochurim should be commenting about how they feel cuz this is all about them

Chosid
February 21, 2023 6:11 pm

What does the Rebbe say about this topic??

Hasn’t the Rebbe OFTEN spoken that a bochur is like the soldiers of King Dovid, that they were required to write a Get to their family before embarking on their mission (of learning in Yeshiva)????

A Get is a Sefer Krisus – to be cut off!!!

Rabbi Avtzon, are you agreeing with what the Rebbe often said about Chayolei Bais Dovid, or are you taking a new approach (because times have changed)????

wow
February 22, 2023 8:49 am

seems like many people are being quite extreme are don’t know much about being a bocher

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