By anonymous
There was recently discussion about how shidduch references need to be careful when answering questions on a shidduch call.
That’s true. References should answer responsibly and thoughtfully. But the questions being asked also need to be appropriate.
When someone is listed as a reference, it’s usually because they care about the person and respect them. Asking a friend to share negative traits or “red flags” puts them in an uncomfortable position. Trying to draw out criticism from friends is not fair.
Of course, people making calls want information. There are limited ways to learn about someone. Still, there’s a difference between asking helpful questions and asking a friend to point out faults.
To those making calls: please be mindful of what you ask. If a question feels uncomfortable or inappropriate to direct to a friend, it likely shouldn’t be asked.
Consideration belongs on both sides of the conversation.
To many divorces happening! The truth needs to be shared! If someone is going to therapy or has mental illness they must share it!!!!!
Don’t ruin someone’s life!!
What’s wrong with going to therapy ?
What’s wrong is hiding that you go to therapy and not being honest
That was just an example, it could be anger issues, uncomfortable lying……
Hiding things is not a good idea
That’s the point
There’s a difference between “mental illness” and “going to therapy”.
Many people go to therapy for self improvement and are not mentally ill.
I’m speaking from experience. If u know something, say something! I was completely fooled into a marriage (and am STILL waiting for my get;(. I can’t believe NOT EVEN ONE PERSON noticed what my ex is all about! He is so abusive, I’m not even sure what’s worse – the actual marriage or the threats, bullying, and stalking that is going on now. WHY DIDN’T ANYONE SAY ANYTHING? Obviously, it was all bashert, but for everyone out there IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING. Ask your LOR, but it can’t be the Chofetz Chaim intended for so many divorces. There… Read more »
I’m very sorry for what you are describing , I’m sorry.
Thank you all for the likes. It really means a lot. It’s giving me chizuk
The flip side is true as well. Many men and women are suffering in marriages with spouses who have real issues that no one bothered to share during research.
#stopthecoverup
What does it help of you hide the truth and is it revealed later?
Someone asked me to share 3 negative things about my friend. I found that very off-putting.
The way you ask matters- also hearing about someone’s strong points can help you understand what their weak points are.
Such a stupid question to ask a friend
I know of friends who don’t speak to each other because the info one of them said in a shidduch call was seen by the other as breaking their trust
His red flag is that he has no red flags . Perfection is tough
That’s the spirit
So how do you expect someone to get such intel if you and the family won’t share it?!?
It used to be that you have a family Shadchan and that the shadchan knows who they’re mentioning. Nowadays, there are many times when a shadchan will mention someone that they don’t know that well and you are left with having to find out info for yourself.
People need to be honest and share the facts
No one is asking you to badmouth your friend
My friend who’s listed on my resume told me that she was asked on a phone call to share my flaws. She refused and said “you’re speaking to the wrong person, I’m not gonna do that”. Now I know not everyone would have that reaction, but it meant alot to me to have that friend’s care and loyalty. I don’t mind if they can ask someone else for flaws about me – maybe an employer or a neighbor, someone who is less emotionally connected – but yeah, don’t ask my close friends. It’s like asking a mother to describe her… Read more »
Then, in all fairness, post on your resume whom to ask the real questions to, so that no one inconveniences your friend…
I received many shidduch calls about classmates, friends and today people in my community, so allow me to share the following:
No one believes an all glowing portrayal of another human being. Just not realistic. No one is perfect (or should be, but that’s for another discussion).
So I stay positive in the beginning, then an add one less glowing true fact (enough for honesty but not enough to ruin the prospect) and then I close with positive again.
It has worked BH until today.
I agree with this method.
You can share something that’s not super positive, and it doesn’t need to be in a “bad-mouthing” way.
And the way the person asks matters!
What is an area she is not as strong in?
Is better than
What’s something she’s bad at? What is her biggest flaw? What are her negative traits?
Just puts someone into a really awkward position.
There are neighbors who think they know you when they know nothing about you!
Rather than asking if the person has any faults – because everyone does and certain personality’s or people can bring things out of people, but people should be self aware enough if they are ready for marriage to see that aspect for themselves. If someone asks if there’s any mental health issues that feels important to know before is a completely different question and makes more sense to ask, if the person chooses to answer or not is a different story, but there’s also stuff you should be able to learn about when actually meeting the person. And we hope… Read more »
I once had a friend call a reference of mine to find out what she was saying about me. Reference of course was a trusted friend, and when she was asked about my relationship with my parents, she was honest and said that my relationship with my father was great but was strained with my mother. (The friend making the call bH did not press for information) I was so uncomfortable with the fact that this reference had said such, despite it being true and despite her saying it in an incredibly respectful and appropriate way, but because she did… Read more »
That’s quite the story with a sweet twist!
I had a friend who had mental health struggles and was put on medication that she wasn’t good about taking. I asked a Rav about what to share during shidduchim and he said I can’t volunteer the information but I can hint and tell the reference if they having any further questions after doing more research she should call me back.
She never called me back, they got married and I heard from mutual friends that she’s not doing well. I feel so guilty for not being honest.
It is the responsibility of those meeting to disclose health issues, not yours. Let go the guilt.
I already posted another comment that I hope gets published.
In short, I was faced with a similar situation to yours and I let the person calling guess and only when they did, I said yes – bipolar is what I was told they have (directly from that person). I didn’t want to end up in your situation where the shidduch goes through and things turn out bad because the other side didn’t know…
You did the right thing: asked your Rav and followed his guidance. What happened after isn’t your responsibility and obviously was bashert.
You followed daas torah, feeling guilty is the yetzer hara
Friends are there to only say good things! If you want to hear negative call someone not on their resume!
There’s a difference between a red flag and a flaw. Everyone has flaws, including your son or daughter that you’re calling about. A person has to decide if that personality flaw is a deal breaker or not FOR THEM. It’s subjective. For one girl a bochur that doesn’t know how to learn is a flaw. For someone else they don’t mind. It depends on the boy or girl themselves. In contrast, a red flag for example someone who doesn’t know how to have a stable relationship or is abusive, or has an addiction and is not getting help to take… Read more »
A friend of mine told me they were diagnosed with bipolar. Once somone called me as a reference and said that they already know everything about this person and all they wanted me to tell them was whats off with them since they couldn’t put their finger on it. They said they called me because I am known to be an honest person and they know I will tell them what’s up. I am honest so there was no was I was going to lie but it also felt difficult to be put in this position. So I told them… Read more »
Bipolar is a real red flag.
Maybe we need a few Rabbonim to clarify what needs to be said and what not. Doesn’t Halachah say that you could say the truth when it comes to marriage? Considering the divorce rate, how does one balance saying the truth and not ending a potential Shidduch? Sometimes the “Mental illness” you’re seeing after marriage is bec, the individual is married to a true narcissist who brought it on and did not heal from their own damaging baggage.
I believe the right way to view this is, if you think it will affect the marriage say it if not don’t say anything, there is no.need for useless negativity
That will affect the marriage!
My daughter is happily married now BH. We found out that a friend was hinting that my daughter had anxiety.
My daughter had gone for therapy had done the work and BH was in a great place by the time she was dating.
This information had no relevance to her future .
If you are going to say things that will stop a potential Shidduch first be honest with your friend and tell them I will say so and so and always ask a rav.
These days everyone has anxiety. There are ways to treat it easily
These days almost everyone has anxiety. It isn’t really a mental health disorder while treated
If some one asks you to be a reference they are trusting you to help them get married not to stop the Shidduch
If you feel there is something negative that you must say or something you feel dishonest not to share always always ask a rav .
It may have 0 relevance to your freinds future marriage.
Also tell your friend I asked a rav and was told I have to give this information.
It’s a huge responsibility to be a reference, do not make your own decisions that could stop a Shidduch
It’s very important not to hide the truth. You cannot get married, start a new relationship with a hidden lie. It’s not fair for the ex spouse to be and children!
To lie, deceive or hide the truth is not the right way to start a marriage.
Too many people are suffering and it’s not fair to anyone!
First of all, there are very unkind people. My daughter was in Shidduchim and someone called a married young lady about information about her. This lady did not even know us. But, she replied that “mental illness runs in the family”!!! Totally untrue!!! It got back to me and I researched and found out that this lady said that. I, as the mother cried for weeks on end! You can damage a potential shidduch with made up stories. BH, my daughter is married. I cannot bring myself to forgive this lady until this day.
Why would a friend share negative information?
The resumes are there to find out who else knows the person.
Best to ask people OFF of the resume
Of course a friend won’t share the negative
A no brainer.
Matchmaking is a business like any other
It’s a sale.
Many of them push matches that don’t make any sense.
Many manipulate the shidduch to continue and the shidduch breaks before or shortly after.
Parents should be the ones helping throughout the process, not people who don’t know your child.
A shadchan told my friend (I dont know what she was thinking – probably wasnt), your friend is a difficult person.
My friend called me and said, do you know she’s saying that about you?
You can imagine I never used that shadchan again.
Honestly, no one is perfect and everyone has their moments that we wished we could erase. Even Moshe hit the rock when he was told not to and cost him entrance into isreal sounds like his temper was a red flag big time..let’s be real l, no one is perfect. Your not badmouthing anyone unless things really went down like police were called ect. Ect. Everyone needs to get off their high horse and be real..meanwhile singles are suffering
Our system works on trust that people will be honest and tell you the truth.
Betrayal of trust of the worst feeling and in case of deception on shidduchim, the victim feels disillusioned not just by the spouse and family who hid information but by the entire community who knew and didn’t say anything
Adulting is tricky.
Nuance takes maturity. Not black and white thinking
When someone marries a mentally ill individual, who is not on medication and does not tell the future spouse. this affects not only the couple, but it is extremly detrimental to the children of that marriage. Many of the children today that are on drugs, or mentally ill etc. Is a result of this marriage.
Sometimes a shadchan might call a reference because of their own concerns about the person being suggested. Many years ago a shadchan phoned me about a roommate (I’ll call her Miriam). “I met with Miriam,” the shadchan said. “Everyone is raving about her, what a great gal she is. But I dunno; she struck me as oversensitive and brittle. People suggested I get in touch with you.” I listed Miriam’s good qualities, agreeing that she was a very nice person. However, I added that this shadchan’s judgment was correct: Miriam had a certain fragility that made adult responsibilities difficult. She… Read more »
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