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Thursday, 7 Av, 5782
  |  August 4, 2022

Beis Din Directors Call For Stricter Jewish Genealogy Checks

The directors of 3 Beis Dins in the United States are calling for stricter Birur Yahadus background checks following the news of a newlywed man being suspected as Muslim. Full Story

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Just saying .
November 8, 2021 10:01 pm

We have non Jewish girls living in crown heights who pose As a Jewish girl . Even seen working with jewish children . Is that a problem ? Is it a problem they even go to Shul dresses tznius and Daven ? Just wondering on a spiritual level ?

What exactly
Reply to  Just saying .
November 8, 2021 11:20 pm

Are you referring to ?

Interesting
Reply to  Just saying .
November 8, 2021 11:23 pm

Can you please explain
Are they doing so to be deceptive?
Are they mentally unstable and looking for the security of a community?
Or are they in the middle of conversion?
Those are all very different circumstances

Just saying
Reply to  Just saying .
November 9, 2021 1:49 am

You have true facts or you heard ?

How do you know?
Reply to  Just saying .
November 9, 2021 9:02 am

How do you know?

yes check many generations back
Reply to  Just saying .
November 11, 2021 7:54 am

Excellent decision and even in ISRAEL needs to be done! My cousin married a girl that was raised by her Sefardi Israeli father but her mom was Polish non Jew- the daughter spoke fluent Hebrew and yet she is not Jewish! I wonder what rabbi married her in Calif. !

Might not be, or is not?
November 8, 2021 10:02 pm

“where it was discovered that a Choson might have not been Jewish”

If he is Jewish, his relationship is effectively over. If he is not Jewish, surely this should be confirmed before the story goes live. The fact that checks were not performed is absolutely concerning, but all of this hinges on that word “might”.

Rabbi Yoram Ulman is an expert at this
November 8, 2021 10:03 pm

Rabbi Yoram Ulman and his team is very good at identifying origins. He will leave no stone unturned. If need be, he would get info on tomb stones etc…He is an expert at digging info and getting to the bottom of things…….

Terrible terrible story
Reply to  Rabbi Yoram Ulman is an expert at this
November 8, 2021 11:26 pm

But MAYBE there is an upside – the beginning of Moshiach doing the crucial Geulah job of sorting out the authentic Yidden from the non-Jews !

Investigation Process
Reply to  Terrible terrible story
November 9, 2021 11:35 am

Which terrorist group trained and funded him !

RAMBAM!!!
Reply to  Terrible terrible story
November 9, 2021 9:18 pm

you obviously never learnt rambam

משיח לא בא, לא לטמא את הטהור ולא לרחק קת הקרוב וכו’

and see the Rebbes Hadran 5747 on this subject

wow wow wow on all levels
Reply to  Rabbi Yoram Ulman is an expert at this
November 9, 2021 2:24 pm

apparently they (father & son mesadrei kidushin) didnt do any AT ALL

Rabbis uniting together
November 8, 2021 10:04 pm

Thank you for uniting together in this important task. I wish the same vigor and urgency you use for this worthy cause could also be used in creating, publicizing and enforcing a halachic pre nup that will be accepted in the Chabad community.

Amazing Rabonim!
November 8, 2021 10:08 pm

Especially Rabbi Sperlin!!
Maybe there will be law and order once and for all!

Looks unfair
November 8, 2021 10:20 pm

From the story I saw concerning this earlier today, this had nothing what to do with Geirus certificates. Funny that’s who is brought up the most. Seems that the issue had to do with not looking into the status of someone professing to be Jewish born not someone showing a conversion certificate. And cases lately of people being shown as not Jewish were not professing conversion at all. Someone who goes through all the proper steps for conversion and then now because of these incidents are being scrutinized does not seem so nice to me.

You misunderstand
Reply to  Looks unfair
November 9, 2021 5:23 am

The issue is that someone may not go through all the proper steps for conversion, but may be posing as though they have (Riskin, cough cough)

Geirim
Reply to  Looks unfair
November 9, 2021 8:39 pm

If there was giyur in the family even a few generations back (in the mother line, of course) that would make the descendant Jewish IF the giyur was proper. Unfortunately, there are many people who go thru “giyur” that isn’t done properly (even r”l in orthodox communities). That’s why researching the giyur and getting to the bottom of it is integral to confirming someone’s yahadus. These cases must always be scrutinized, and may have nothing to do with this particular story (this story was with someone attesting to being Jewish from birth – not a ger), but it is a… Read more »

Same urgency
November 8, 2021 10:54 pm

Can we have the same unity to end the agunah crisis?!?!?!

B”H
November 8, 2021 10:56 pm

We should all convert so it would be taken care of. Just like by hakel when they took upon themselves the Torah we should also convert.

Mamzerus
Reply to  B”H
November 9, 2021 9:20 pm

Mamzerus is still a problem when it comes to birur yuchsin, esp in a case of גיור לחומרא

There is a reason the Rebbe said that our girls shouldnt run to marry the ethiopians…

Tznius issue
November 8, 2021 11:02 pm

We need a rabbinical team to give guidance on tznius and technology. We are clueless in these areas

Rabbi Barber
November 8, 2021 11:12 pm

I am a shliach and i have used Rabbi Barber for all my birur yahadus shailos and I know many shluchim who use him as well. If a frum Rov is being mesader kiddushin I don’t think it is the acharayus of the shliach to be mevarer if choson and kallah are both Jewish. I think setting up a system is a great idea however I don’t see how it would have helped in this case. A shliach does not check everyone who comes to a program that they are 100% Jewish. Especially on campus. In this case the shliach… Read more »

Doesn't address the issue
November 8, 2021 11:38 pm

The issue was that the Shliach was just an Untefirer. The onus was completely on the officiating Rabbi.
When someone invites you to a wedding it’s not your job to find out the status of the chosson.
The call for strict standards applies when the Shliach is the officiating Rabbi and the above statement only addresses that point. Which I’m sure the Shliach does a through research before making a wedding.
The statement doesn’t address when the Shliach is invited to a wedding as a guest.

Food for thought
November 8, 2021 11:42 pm

This letter is premature. The only source for the story that this man is, in fact, an Arab, is the the wife’s claims. For all we know, we’ll find out over the next few days that proper birrur yahadus was done and this man is Jewish.

Also, today’s allegedly tragic events is a once-in-a-century thing. New rules aren’t necessary for things as uncommon as this

Young talent
November 9, 2021 1:20 am

This is a breath of fresh air , Lubavitch needs Rabonim to step up where there is a void. Major yashar koach for this much needed initiative!

United Kingdom
November 9, 2021 1:34 am

Here in the UK any marriage that take ls place in a shul, must be officiated by a Rov accredited by the Office of the Chief Rabbi. This office looks into Yuchsin of all prospective marriages. It also has an added benefit that the Chief Rabbis office has records going back over a hundred years.

The Rabbanut has approved lists online
November 9, 2021 2:34 am

Due to the nature of these most intricate and delicate matters which are standing on רומו של עולם it is supprising that such young Rabbis are looking to be in charge of such severe matters.
The Rabbanut has a list of who they “approve” of. In any case, there can always be a possible “bad” get or a “bad” geirus even from a recognized “beis din”.

https://www.gov.il/he/Departments/publications/reports/beit_din_in_world

https://www.gov.il/he/Departments/publications/reports/beit_din_gitin

Missionaries
November 9, 2021 7:17 am

There are also missionaries posing as Orthodox Jews. Along the way, they are gaining legitimacy though shluchim who unknowingly welcomed them. It is imperative that shluchim are prudent about the people they are being makarev. This hit close to home when it was discovered that a child from a missionary family was in my child’s class (in a religious school). The family posed as entirely frum. Both parents had affiliations with Chabad that they used to gain legitimacy in the wider community.

huh
Reply to  Missionaries
November 9, 2021 1:24 pm

incorrect everyone is welcome in chabad houses so you cant by them door ask them if they’re Jewish

Unattainable goal
November 9, 2021 7:31 am

The second rule is unattainable. It is much better if there was a Bais din that created a centralized system for Beiur Yahadus. Similar to what they have in United Kingdom, South Africa and Israel.

Saddly the system in the US where the Rabbi does the checking and not a centralized system. Has caused many Rabbi’s both Chabad and not Chabad to make mistakes.

Rabbi Chaim Jacobs
November 9, 2021 7:38 am

Checking for every wedding should be done like they do in the UK where the office of the Chief Rabbi-London Beis Din Marriage department do thorough checking over and over again before confirming a marriage may go ahead. Why are shluchim etc not doing the same.?
This same applies to gayrus too. Each shliach must ask themselves would they want this person to marry one of their own children?
Once cannot rely of passports and birth certificates

Civil Marriage
November 9, 2021 8:20 am

It appears that the young couple did not apply for a civil marriage and had they done so the “kallah” would have been aware of the “chosson’s” background. The officiating rav also did not require civil documentation.

ALFRED E NEWMAN
November 9, 2021 9:19 am

GOOD MORNING, HELLO? SHOULD THAT NOT HAVE BEEN STANDARD PROCEDURE EVER? HOW MANY RED FLAGS IS REQUIRED FOR A BOY FROM LEBANON WHOSE PARENTS DONT SHOW UP FOR A WEDDING AND HAS GIVEN MULTIPLE FALSE NAMES ON SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS
HONESTLY DID NOT A SINGLE ROV ASK TO SEE HIS PASSPORT!??

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE

who is this group?
November 9, 2021 12:14 pm

who are these Rabanim to decide what Shluchim do? There are Rabanim bais dins etc..all lubavitch? why do we need outside groups to decide what shluchim should do? who decided it was needed? This story had nothing to do with Shluchim? Ask Vaad Rabanaei lubavitch!!! im shocked that this was even considered!

wow wow wow on all levels
November 9, 2021 2:15 pm

The following statement was released by Rabbi Yossi Lazaroff, the Chabad rabbi in Texas: Since 2007, the Rohr Chabad Jewish Student Center at Texas A & M has been serving all Jewish faculty and students to explore their Judaism. A student, presenting himself as Eliyah Hawila, who frequented campus Jewish institutions (including serving as president at one), began visiting Chabad in 2018 (he never studied at a Chabad affiliated yeshiva, nor was he proficient in Hebrew). Last year he met a woman from N.Y. on a Jewish dating website. He falsely presented himself to her as observant. When I was… Read more »

Very sad. Children should be speaking to parents
November 9, 2021 6:51 pm

How sad and unfortunate for this young Kallah. From what I heard of this situation, the parents and daughter were not on good speaking terms. When parents are involved they usually do references check and find out background etc. This girl met this boy on a website with no Shadchan or anyone really involved to do any checking. She had to put the wedding together by herself- with the help of some gemachim etc. My heart goes out for this young lady and her family. May we all seek out Shalom and merit to have the Shechina dwell in our… Read more »

Shedding some light
November 9, 2021 10:57 pm

Maybe Rabbanim/Mashpiim can reunite children who are not speaking to parents. This is unfortunately becoming an epidemic. Children who have “issues” with their parents should heed the Torah directives of
כבד את אבך ואת אמך
There is almost always a way for שלום

Who created this group? מי ברא אלה
November 10, 2021 12:55 am

Three helpful resources:
Rabbanut list online of approved batei din for גיור and גיטין in chutz Learetz.
(Not perfect, but very helpful.)
GPS – geirus standards for participating Beit dins in America led by the RCA (Beth din of America).
There are dozens of experts in בירור יהדות , one should consult with their local area.

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