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2 Rabbis Prohibit ‘Kosher Switch’

2 Chabad rabbis joined other leading poskim in prohibiting the new Kosher Switch invention as not Kosher for use. Full Story, Audio

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To #55
May 3, 2015 7:38 am

First of all, you can buy Shabbat switch protectors at your local hardware or Judaica store so you won’t accidentally desecrate Shabbat. This will help you and your family be more mindful of Shabbat. Another way to be more mindful of Shabbat is to learn the laws of Shabbat. There are now translations and summaries in English of these laws. Secondly, what should be considered machmir or meikil is up to a Rabbi who is knowledgeable in both the halachot and the technology involved in this device. Therefore, according to halachah, even for someone who is meikil, one is required… Read more »

turn it off?
May 1, 2015 1:58 am

the whole video said how you can turn the light on not turn the light, the point of a switch would be both functions sounds like a waist of time for me, we need the light on friday night then turned off, not off then turned on when its light out.
Whoever invented this thing is confused to say the least

After reading this, you would all agree its not Assur.
April 30, 2015 11:42 pm

The real question should be is it more assur than a regular light switch. Would you rather have a regular light switch in the bathroom where one can accidentally desecrate Shabbat? Would you rather have a switch where a guest, an absent minded child (Or adult), or other situations would do chilul Shabbat? One doesn’t HAVE to use this switch. But if one ends up using a switch, rest assure, one would want to use this switch. Add to this situation where a not so charedi family like mine can use this in our home to allow us to be… Read more »

Rabbi halpern
April 29, 2015 10:36 am

Rabbi halpern in Israel said it s assur unless used for medical or safety

to #50
April 28, 2015 4:21 pm

It okay to use on weekdays when set to weekday mode and on shabbat when set to shabat mode. There are examples on the website. This is a great break through and should be installed in all homes.

@ 42
April 28, 2015 3:54 am

Mekorvon laTorah, bring them to. The Torah.
The Rebbe never C”V lowered the Torah’s standards.
That is Hashem’s will. razon Hashem.
Lift up the Yid, to the Torah.

to 48
April 28, 2015 3:45 am

It’s already completely prohibited.

It is okay to use Kosher Switch
April 28, 2015 12:35 am

On weekdays,

The World is Flat
April 27, 2015 10:37 pm

My driveway is flat. My roof is flat. Therefore the world is flat.

Crock pots are okay. An eiruv is okay. Therefore a “Kosher” switch is okay.

Makes perfect sense.

Following such logic:

My neighbour is a fool. My cousin is a fool. Therefore I too must be a fool.

Shabbos is Shabbos
April 27, 2015 7:39 pm

Doing stuff like this can actually lead to doing something completely prohibited on Shabbos!

Rabbis please take note.
April 27, 2015 1:43 pm

next time you think you have a halachic breakthrough, hold your opinion, until you verify with actually real experienced rabbis, in halacha, like heads of Beth din and leading dyanim.

time delay makes no difference.
April 27, 2015 1:29 pm

whether there is a delay of one minute, or a delay of one month, it’s all the same, you are doing an action on Shabbos that you are not allowed to do in the first place, premeditated. Expecting a certain result. You want it to happen. It’s going to happen. And if it happens, you got what you wanted. The problem is that you knowingly triggered this system on the day of Shabbos itself.

Setting up a mouse trap
April 27, 2015 11:36 am

Setting up a trap to capture an animal is forbidden on Shabbos even though you may or may not capture an animal over the whole Shabbos. Kal vechomer the switch is will definitely cause the light to go on in a few moments. Would be forbidden.

Zilzul Shabbos
April 27, 2015 11:26 am

The Magen Avraham and Mishnah Berura write that one is not allowed to carry a walking stick outside for no reason on Shabbos, even if there is an Eruv, because of Zilzul Shabbos (OC 301:17). In short, even if something is technically permissible, it may be rabbinically forbidden because it degrades the spirit of Shabbos. Perhaps electrical switches have become so synonymous with chillul Shabbos that it will never be permissible to use them, even if a technically permissible one (in terms of melocho) were invented, because of zilzul Shabbos. Another concern – raised by R’ Schochet shlit”a and others… Read more »

April 27, 2015 10:14 am

To #39
Neither gas nor water meters are not electric for a very simple reason. They have to function while power is off for any reason. They are electrically active when the utility collects the information, not in the course of ordinary use.

to 31
April 27, 2015 9:38 am

From the letter of the Rabbonim it is clear that the basis of the prohibiton is the concern of Melochoh, Zilzul Shabbos is an additional, but no less important halachik concern. The Chabad standard is מקרבן לתורה, and though there may be a need of relying on a leniency for the benefit of individuals, the standard is; לפנים משורת הדין, beyond “mainstream” practice.

April 27, 2015 9:26 am

i never heard what you wrote
the rebbe said about microphone not the elevator

but it is funny to see comments here from people that dont know sholchan aruch and thy are speaking againts the rabonim that do know shulchan aruch

if you are a frum yid you know that you need to hear the opinion off a person that knows shulchan aruch very very well

to number 18
April 27, 2015 5:40 am

in reply the difference with a an eruv and shabbos belt is quite big..the melacha assur is to kindle/activate a light on shabbos pure and simple .Im glad the rabbis are united on this.

OK 31
April 27, 2015 4:54 am

You flush the toilet, you turn on the faucet to wash Hamotzi, the ELECTRIC WATER METER measures how much water you used. Why is that permissible?

Number 31
April 27, 2015 4:53 am

Lol, awesome shiur well needed for #2

April 26, 2015 11:53 pm

So Glad #3 #15 anf a bunch of others think u know ur stuff to pass judgement. Bottom line u have to trust ur rav or u can do Whatever u want pretty much based on ur own analytical brillisn’t mind.
Bottom line; the rav determined the law

April 26, 2015 11:49 pm

From the wording quoted in regards to opening a door in front of a lit candle, it sounds like the concern is specifically that the wind will immediately start blowing as you open the door, which would unexpectedly cause a case of פס”ר. But in our case, as far as I understand, the switch turns red for the duration of the cycle so that you’re never put in a situation where the light can turn on instantly.

Of course there is the point, mentioned elsewhere, that it’s definitely מתכון in our case, which makes the whole פס”ר discussion moot.

April 26, 2015 11:47 pm

how come the manufacturer says nothing about the organization in Eretz Yisroel that gives the ok on different technology that is used on Shabos ?? .. I would think such a thing would get the ok from this organization like the UL organization gives on products

to #3
April 26, 2015 11:43 pm

The Rebbe said in regards to a shabbos elevator which R’ Moshe Fienstein gave the heter on that R’ Moshe does know halacha but he (the Rebbe) knows halacha and elevators and does not agree on it at all.

April 26, 2015 11:14 pm

To # 18 what I understand my looking how this switch works Basically this lightswitch you’re doing a melacha on shabbos

to #31
April 26, 2015 11:14 pm

once again, you’re missing the point of the question (and the tone of your response helps me understand why…) I’m asking specifically about the idea of zilzul b’shabos that many of the rabonim cite, NOT the melachos. You see this is what I am seeing in this entire parsha: a lot of knee-jerk emotional monologue and not a lot of rational dialog. (#23 is a very welcome exception.) The good news for you, #31, is that you’re in good company. So many of the gedolim and rabonim are doing the same thing. So my question is, when did Chabad become… Read more »

shabbos belt, crockpot and eruv
April 26, 2015 10:02 pm

It’s actually very simple: a shabbos belt is an item of clothing, and the key becomes a part of the beged. The crockpot is turned on before shabbos, and isn’t tampered with on shabbos at all. As a matter of fact you can’t set a timer to turn it on on shabbos. Eruv makes the whole neighborhood a reshus hayochid. This switch is causing an action to happen ON SHABBOS, unlike any of the above. Case closed. Now go to your bookshelf and learn some shulchan Aruch so you don’t need COL to learn halacha.

Klal Yisroel has Ruach HaKodesh
April 26, 2015 9:41 pm

There where many questions that came up with the electricity revolution, for example: The Microphone on Shabbos There was a serious machlokos about it, big Gaonim said that it was mutar (I won’t name them clearly but for those who need to know, this acronym will suffice: RJB”S). And much more. The question in all these thing what can lead to Chillul Shabos and what can ruin the spirit of Shabbos. There is a Ruach HaKodesh in klal Yisroel and certain things were accepted as asur and certain thing were not accepted. It seems that the switch is not being… Read more »

to # 5(#26)
April 26, 2015 9:35 pm

Point well taken.
Some points to keep in mind;
Introducing an inovation which will drastically change the way Shabbos is observed, is subject to a greater degree of scrutiny. The discussion is whether to permit something which is prohibited, not the reverse.
The crockpot, as an example is not a new concept, it is a modern scenario of an age old idea. The “Switch” is an entirely new idea.

number two
April 26, 2015 9:11 pm

besides or what #24 sid, at the end of the day zman is not a lubavitcher publication

April 26, 2015 8:34 pm

If you haven’t yet, you should watch the video posted by #6. Very levelheaded and mature – both midos otherwise lacking in this whole flap.

#s 21 and 23
April 26, 2015 8:31 pm

21, comments like yours are the biggest problem with this entire issue. Let’s cut out the cynicism and chutzpa.

23, I was not asking about the issur or heter. I was asking about the point that so many of the rabonim seem to keep harping on, which is zilzul d’shabbos. There are svoros both ways on the actual melachos that may or may not be involved, and I get that. But I don’t understand how this switch is more in conflict with the spirit of shabbos that the examples mentioned.

Rabbonim say it's assur
April 26, 2015 8:02 pm

Apparently even the rabbonim who seem to endorse it in the video were only agreeing in the case of a choleh–but that part was cut off. In the ami and Mishpacha magazines this week it was discussed extensively.

to 2
April 26, 2015 7:40 pm

this is a different device from the one reported in Zman

this s a manual switch the Zman one is an automatic timer

To # 5
April 26, 2015 7:37 pm

Assuming you are sincere and due to this being a platform for limited discussion, let’s deal with one issue you raised, Eiruv. An Eiruv can only allow one to carry in an area where Min Hatorah one would be allowed, but is prevented to do so by an Issur D’rabbonon, in which case the same Rabbis that prohibited carrying, provided a method which allows it, Eiruv. The Chachomim however, cannot provide a method that will allow a person to perform an act which is an issur D’oraisoh. A melocochoh happens which “happens” by way of G’rama becomes an issur D’rabbonon… Read more »

Sholom Shucat shiur is GESHMAK
April 26, 2015 7:14 pm

A very talented teacher! I thoroughly enjoyed.

nothing new
April 26, 2015 7:07 pm

Rabbis made it possible to work on Shabbos, yes work on Shabbos and get paid MONEY.
Then they find a way around so you can get paid MONEY for the work you do ON Shabbos.
Maybe if there was financial gain for all the Rabbis, they would then support the Shabbos Switch.
Thus is all about MAKING MONEY, Not about our Torah.

To #8
April 26, 2015 6:41 pm

The Shiur was given in Mayan Yisroel Flatbush. He gives a Shiur every Sunday morning there.

to 16
April 26, 2015 6:37 pm

I think its a chutzpa to reply to a rav’s psak that way. You want to go against the Torah then the least you could do is do it quietly and privately. standing up ans proclaiming I will go against halachah is a disgusting thing to do.

To #17
April 26, 2015 6:35 pm

That doesn’t answer the issue of eiruv or shabbos belt.

to #5
April 26, 2015 6:04 pm

The difference is you are not taking an action ON SHABBOS to make it happen. You are allowed to light a fire before Shabbos for use on Shabbos. In fact that’s exactly what we are supposed to do–to prepare before Shabbos for Shabbos. Only on Shabbos is it forbidden to do melacha.

It's so easy to say "no"
April 26, 2015 5:55 pm

To any innovation that exploits loopholes
To some it is so scary to allow something that can help others save money
I’m going to purchase this switch and use it

April 26, 2015 5:35 pm

Its good to hear a sound voice amongst all these speculators….

Yossi A
April 26, 2015 5:18 pm

To #3
Come tonight to Empire Shtibel you’ll get all your questions answered.

To #7
That’s exactly the problem. This clock had more issues then there are holes in a piece of Swiss cheese.

All chabad poskim say assur...
April 26, 2015 4:33 pm

In other words, despite how some news org, wish to present the issue, all chabad Rabonim who actually are experts in Halacha say that it is assur…

Thank you, #3!!
April 26, 2015 4:23 pm

Thank you, #3 for your incisive Halachik analysis

April 26, 2015 4:22 pm

Rabbi Berel Levin will be giving a shiur at 7:30 tonight in Empire Shteibel on this topic.

April 26, 2015 4:20 pm

Finally there is Achdus amongst all rabbonim

Finally our Rabonim speak up
April 26, 2015 4:19 pm

It’s about time the chilul chabad stops and we show that we know what we are saying and we are on the same page as leading poskim.

April 26, 2015 4:15 pm

Where does Rabbi Sholom Shuchat give his halacha Shuir? CH?

Another question
April 26, 2015 4:05 pm

Why hasn’t a single rov come out and said what the inventor needs to do to make this thing right? Isn’t he trying to do a good thing? Isn’t helping Jews observe Shabbos a good thing? Why are we only getting negativity from all of these rabbis?

I love Rabbi Manis’ letter because he didn’t discuss Halacha, he simply said it’s a good thing and it deserves to be supported. Why can’t more people be positive?

April 26, 2015 3:58 pm
April 26, 2015 3:49 pm

Can someone explain how this invention is more zilzul d’shabbos than:
1. Crock pot
2. Timer switch
3. Eiruv for a city
4. Shabbos belt

And once we’re at it, why is it more offensive than:
1. Heter iska
2. Selling fields before shmita
3. Heat lamp for pas Yisroel
4. A thousand other halachic loop holes used by many.

April 26, 2015 3:44 pm

You write: “2 Chabad rabbis have joined leading poskim…” Why do you say that they joined leading poskim? Are Chabad rabbis not themselves leading poskim? Probably, what you meant to say was “2 Chabad rabbis have joined OTHER leading poskim…”

No 1
April 26, 2015 3:38 pm

I dont see any difference between a Shabbos elevator and a kosher switch

i just read a whole article in zman
April 26, 2015 3:28 pm

and it said its allowed?

Yossi A
April 26, 2015 3:24 pm

from Rabbi Schochat to Rabbi Braun and everyone in between…. agrees it’s not kosher.