To the esteemed Rabbi Rosenberg,
I would first like to thank you for the time and effort that you have put into making peace in our community. The evidence is out there in the open when you have the greatest number of people going out and voting, which shows that when there is unity, when the rabonim can agree on issues everyone supports the process.
Now we are approaching almost 2 weeks since the elections. The people voted, and the voice of the people has to be heard loud and clear, we all voted under the existing bylaws of the CHJCC. And we all expected that you, as the rabbi moderating this election, would work swiftly to enforce the will of the people and proceed with the process that the bylaws call for.
One thing is clear as day. The people do NOT WANT machloikes. They do not want BOTH sides involved anymore. We understand that you are having closed door meetings and negotiating with both sides to work out deals as to who will be in the runoff, how many people will be in the runoff etc, etc. This is NOT what we voted for. This is NOT the will of the people. This is NOT what your psak din calls for.
I know that I, and many people I have spoken to, don’t want any backroom deals. The bylaws are clear if only 1 person gets more than 50% of the vote that the next 3 vote getters have a runoff. That is what all the community voted for. And they all voted AGAINST both sides.
And with all due respect, you see that the people have spoken against both sides. Why are you negotiating with them. Sit down with the next 3 highest vote getters, ONLY THEY represent the people. And work it out with them. Not with all the machloikes people from both sides.
I beg of you in the name of shalom for our community, do not talk with any of these 2 sides. Speak with our voted representatives only. And let’s get the community running again.
You don’t need to listen to them tell you that 3 people is not enough on the board and we need a runoff for more. These statements should have been made before the elections and then maybe have people vote for a minimum of 5 not 3. Yes, our bylaws may be flawed, and we may need to change them. Iy”h the new vaad with your recommendations should put those changes up for a community vote. But for now we need to resolve this NOW and WITHOUT the 2 sides. There is only one side now. THE SIDE OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED.
With request for mechila if i may have said anything not respectful to you. But when it hurts a person has to scream. When a person sees injustice he needs to speak.
Name witheld for obvious reasons
COLlive: 2010 Election Coverage:
+ Zaki, Chanina Secure $20K
+ Expected Runoff – July 6
+ COLlive Interview with Zaki Tamir
+ Zaki Tamir Wins the Elections
+ Election Ends: 2,064 Votes Cast
+ Moshe Rubashkin Weighs In
+ New Ruling, Jingle & Yarmulkas
+ The Candidates Answer COLlive
+ Candidates at Heated Forum
+ COLlive on the Election Trail
+ 7 Election Facts to Know
+ Candidates Honor NY Senator
+ Hecht, Wilhelm Can Now Run
+ Candidates Agree: No Dirt
+ Candidates for 770 Gabboim
+ Candidates for Vaad Hakohol
+ Last-Minute Signing
+ No New Candidates Yet
+ Election Commitee Reps Chosen
+ Op-Ed: The Psak is Out, Now What?
+ The Ruling on Crown Heights
+ Community Din Torah Ends
Due to the fact that many people will be out of town over the summer; is a postal vote an option for the potential voters.
I assume (s)he meant ARTICLE VIII as VII has no section 5.
the bylaws state:
“shall serve… until the time of the next election, or if the election is not held in a timely manner, until their successors are elected.”
Sorry Katzman but it seems according to the bylaws the outgoing vaad stays till the runoff…
ARTICLE VII
SECTION 5.
after i read the psak from rabbi rozenburg (the reasons)
i was very impressed and i realized that our opinion and a psak is 2 different worlds so lets give the rabbi his space to do what he needs to do.
Didn’t read all the comments. However, as good as the letter sounds, a letter without a name is still a “Pashkvill”.
I agree a runoff election should have already taken place. It may already be too late for an effective runoff as I’m afraid the momentum is gone. People are already involved with summer (camps, bungalows, vacation, out of town, etc.).
The runoff should have taken place , maximum, one week later. I think it may be too late for a fair and effective runoff.
So what now? I don’t know.
Something to think about there is a minimum of 3 needed according to the bylaws If none were elected then the current vaad would be in till the next round with only 1 person elected that still means there is the void of not having 3 also by being flexible with the bylaws in the beginning by allowing younger people to vote and allowing people who are on other mosdos to run it now gives the daayan the flexibility that is needed to fix things for the community because if we went to the letter of the bylaws it would… Read more »
I have to disagree. First of all, Rabbi Rosenberg got us this far. Don’t you think he knows what he’s doing?!?!?!?! He’s doing what he needs to do to bring COMPLETE sholom to our community. Achdus is ALL INCLUSIVE. Achdus doesn’t mean “let’s get rid of those we don’t like” it means working together. That means, those who had their chance & didn’t make the difference which the community needed, will kindly step down, and work TOGETHER witht he newbies while giving it over, by passing over their connections as well. We do know that however much we don’t like… Read more »
I have read the OP-ED and sincerely hope that the writer sends a hard copy to Rav Rosenberg via snail mail. It is well written and I believe expresses what the vast majority of us desire– no additional room for machloikis. The enormous numbers of voters expressed their desire for a new Vaad, hopefully without motives other than to serve our wonderful community. If all proceeds without further delays, and without the needless redundancy of “further” negotions, then I think we have a chance for real positive change. Bravo to the writer of the OP-ED.
Dr. Levi A. Reiter
i advise to go to his grave and ask mechilo you playing with fire
To # 53: On the grapevine: word is that Rabbi Rosenberg has declined to speak to a potential candidate. Perhaps it is too early and might yet be a conflict of interest until the rest is cleared up. To #57: You are reading it correctly. This election result basically shows that no-one is trusted, except for a heretofore unknown who is articulate. And even his “victory” is hardly major. To #58. Vegam hu kilkel leatzmu ule-acherim… (loshon HaMishneh in Challa) To #38: True, after a psak din there SHOULD not be 2 sides; but HELLO, what do we see here… Read more »
not only does he check the internet he even does it from his slick blackberry! i saw him on election day!
rabbi marlow didnt waste his time with politics and machlokes and then came to daven. he learned nights and mornings and when came to daven he actualy said the words!
Do you really think that Rav Rosenberg reads the internet?
Maybe the bylaws should be printed on the internet since many of the voters don’t know what in the world they are.
He is just as guilty of formeting and permeating Machlokes in this community as anyone of the other “players” and his interests remain one sided so be careful lest he come into position of influence in this community
Many times Rabbi Marlow would also davin shacrit at 2:00, 3:00 and 3:30 …. on Shabbos.
He would davin to Boruch Sheomar, then take 2-4 hour break to learn….
When a minyan was up to yishtabach, he would join in. He would catch up in 3-5 minutes… and said Shmonei Esrei with the minyan. He had K’fitzas Haderech.
True, none of the outgoing vaad got elected, but in case you haven’t noticed, nobody else did either! If these results show anything it’s how divided this community is. The “big winner”, Zaki Tamir got all of 54% of the vote. Next was Fishel Brownstein, 7 votes shy of the 50% +1 needed for election & 89 behind Zaki. The next 6 (including 2 members of the outgoing vaad as well as Michoel chazan who could probably be lumped with them as far as “sides” go) were all within 100 votes of each other. Bottom line: Having 1 out of… Read more »
I agree that 29 was a little mean but if you get involved in politics and fights you gotta be ready to take the heat and hate that comes with it.
I agree TOTALLY with (#24) Yosef Katzman!- (on THIS issue – but NOT about the Court Case of 770).
Also, may people learn from you and me, to sign their REAL name on their comment!
His experience has proven notto listen even to the gedolei hador – He does whatever he wants……
TO # 49
i stand corrected you are right no signatures required
but you are wrong about rabbi rosenberg it says specificaly in the psak page #9 paragraph 31 (lamed alef) that if a person doesnt not meet soem of the requirements then the head of this beis din (rabbi rosenberg) can approve him
and since one of the requirments is approval of one of the rabonim so if he doesnt get that approval then he can go to rabbi rosenberg
I love the way the same person who wrote this letter broke the bylaws to let his boy run in the first place.
i agree… get this over with… if only women would be in charge…;) BUt how do you choose which rules you are being a stickler for … suggesting that the rules and bylaws must be adhered to etc… how were the “under 30” and a “mossod involved” candidate able to even be in the running? First out then in…
it is becouse of people like him or her that we do not sign our names
to all those commenting about not signing the letter it is realy irelevent, either the point is true or not who cares who said it, (and if you do care who said it than maybe thats why who ever wrote the letter didnt sign it) Kabel es haemes m’mi sheomroi
to #38 the psak does not mention anything about 100 signaturs and also does not say that Rabbi Rosenberg has the power to authorise a candidate.
to # 34 To be honest, I’m still single, when I find a shidduch I’ll sign – same as you. to #37 I’m not perfect and I’m not gonna justify why I wrote what I wrote (although I could) but I would also NEVER use the Rebbe to further my agenda and drag the Rebbe into our garbage. I’m sick and tired of people quoting the Rebbe when it suits their need’s, be honest: if you agreed with my comment would you bring the Rebbe into this? thats what I thought buddy. Same thing with Messira, everybody runs to the… Read more »
any letter without a name (no matter how right) is usless
“Name withheld for obvious reasons?”
If you write a fair and honest letter what’s there to be afraid of?
If you’re hiding you’re ashamed of this letter, so why write it? Just be patient, no?
Who’s coming to your door with a baseball bat?
what 2 sides im confused?!
i would also be afraid to sign my name. in ch today there is a problem of messira and i would be afraid that the people would find (or make up) something to maser.
let’s just have the runoff elections and get on with ch.
it would also be good if the rabbonim would grow up and act as adults and not cranky kids and think about the good of the community not personal
the elections were clear as to who we want to be in charge of the community council
Minche but without Talis and Tefilin
the real truth of the matter is that over 2000 people said NO to all 12 candidates! The runoff election, although by the bylaws (the same bylaws that were broken to allow conflict of interest which for over 20 years was one of the most reasonable and healthy Takonas Hakohol), is really forcing the people to elect an already rejected candidate. The bylaws clearly states that until the runoff the outgoing Vaad stays. I think we should stop trying to change things to push agendas.
to #29: so just explain to me real quick why YOU are in shul at 2pm?
MAYBE, the candidates who were victorious in becoming gabbayim, should become the vaad hakahal, and the others should become the gabbayim. and let me not begin on who should become the Rabbanim.
The letter writer wants to seem like “everyman” from CH. This whole election has become a farce. I don’t want a few younger men running the Vaad. I also believe that since the bylaws were broken already, why not just let the top 7 vote getters be a broad Vaad? NO ONE got a clear mandate. The votes were almost evenly divided. There should be the broadest mix possible in such a situation.
TO #35 i am soryy to tell you that may have not read the psak (or did not undertsand it) a) after a psak din there are NO 2 SIDES anymore and there is now a process of recocilliation that all accepted and all were very satisffied with his psak. so the writer only want the continuation of the psak. b) regarding the elections for the rov it says in the psak ( if i remeber correctly ) that the qualifications to run as a candidate for rov are 1) you need semicha (not dayunus not shimush) 2) 100 signatures… Read more »
Why are you hurting another Jew by trying to insult him anonymously? Isn’t this what the Rebbe screamed about writing pashkvilen which is make reieihu basoser, which is cursed md’oiraisa. If you’re so proud of yourself and really believe in what you say, why don’t you put your name? You have no guts to say who you are? Thats the difference between you and Katzman he cares for CH therefore he has nothing to hide, you are a little rat hiding behind anonymity to hurt another Jew without even making a point. Today is chag hageula, maybe you’ll have some… Read more »
I agree with Rabbi Yosef Katzman comment very much and the suggestion the runoff election be at the same time as the third Rov, not during the summer when many are away and therefore wouldn’t be fair.
hank you Rabbi Yosef Katzman for speaking up for the majority’s view.
How absolutely fascinating. So many anonymous writers decrying the anonymity of the op-ed writer. Rabbi Rosenberg is a Dayan. Arguably the best in the world (and his travels prove it.) He was called on to be a Dayan. That is what he is still doing. Any din-torah has 2 sides, and they are quite prominent here. It would be wonderful if Rabbi Rosenberg accepted the position of Crown Heights umpire. Meanwhile he isn’t. Another issue looming due to the 2 sided issues here, can be avoided by Rabbi Rosenberg’s intervention. There will be an election for a 3rd rov. An… Read more »
#24, katzman, honorably signed up his coment. why don’t you do the same?
i don’t sign – because i’m a bochur and no reason to be involved in this rather then bitul zman. now your turn!
These guys are playing us all for fools.
Rabbi Rosenberg has taken us this far, I think it’s very counterproductive to question him now.
a little patience….
….but it’s not so simple and there are a lot of factors, if Rabbi Rosenberg wouldn’t take the time to listen to all sides – and the vote was basically split down the middle – half the community will not respect the results and there will not be any shalom.
I say lets take the time to make sure we get it right so we can all have peace.
nd that’s the biggest problem we have as a community. You have something to say, put your name to it, get involved. Don’t just write anonymous letters.
Stop with your self righteous garbage, you do not care for the betterment of the community, you seek to destroy, I would say that your entire involvement in this is because it makes you feel important, people come over to you, you register on people’s conscious – even if they hate you. i see you hanging out for hours on Kingston, in shul, at Simchus, relishing the politics and the attention. the day I see you in shul for Shachris before 2pm is the day i’ll even listen to your opinion DEAR COLIVE: if you publish his comments you should… Read more »
the author wrote “we all voted under the existing bylaws of the CHJCC. ”
That is not true. the bylaws were broken to allow more candidates, due to the pressure by Katzman etc. (they wanted as many candidates as possible in order to have the best chances of achieving their goal of ousting the “current” vaad)
katzman – good letter. writer #23 – I agree with you. Too many people here judge by the messenger not the message. I don’t understand why a person SHOULD sign his/her name. What’s the difference who is saying it? You either agree or not. The desperate need-to-know-who-says-what might indicate an underlying flaw of character in the hungry-for-name people. They will formulate their opinion or response based on the who, and don’t respect their own mindflow. Perhaps, to “dohn l’kaf zchus” yhis is a byproduct of being a chosid who subject his mindflow to a higher authority. Problem is you have… Read more »
Why negotiate results, when the bylaws indicate how to proceed. I hate to say it, but the post election is being seriously mismanaged and I now wonder, how was this incompetence worth 150k? With all due respect to the rov shlit”a.
We don’t want another election. Some people work for a living and have a life and family. We don’t have time to schlep once more to vote. We already voted and the results are known to all. Who cares if they got 50% of the vote or not! There is no justification to waste more of the community’s time just because some technical procedure instated years ago in the flawed bylaws. Put whoever you want in their just don’t drag this out. You asked us what we want and who – and we voted for whoever we voted. Now let’s… Read more »
Dear writer, whom I know to represent the entire community: I agree fully with the sentiments expressed in this article. I asked this question from Rabbi Rosenberg for 10 days since the election. I asked why was the recount not done before Shabbos. I asked why the runoff was not held on this past sunday. I asked why was I invited as a representative of one side, to attend a meeting demanded for by Eli Poltorac. I felt that whatever meeting is held, it should be with the entire community, of which I am only one voter. My point is,… Read more »
I totally understand why the writer would want to hide his name:
In this community you are judged by who you are and not what you say.
If he/she would have written a name, all of you blood thirsty folks would attack: who are you, what gives you the write, you were never involved in the vaad or never ran a mossad etc. etc.
I cant think of a obvious reason why you would withhold your name.
Now that the recount was done the elections should be held (as the bi-laws state with the next 3 runners up elected by the people) as soon as possible. If people feel it is important, as they should, they will make it a point to be in town, just as they make it a point to attend to everything else they feel is important. The people have waited to long for this day. The community needs to move on.
Thank you Rabbi Rosenberg for all of the time and hard work you have been investing into our community.
Rabbi Rosenberg is being paid for this din torah not by the community, but by “both sides”.
When Hecht wanted to run – against the bylaws they threatened and pushed Rabbi Rosenberg to let him run, When they realize that most people are not against the New va’ad (now old) they started this “new blood campaign, now when it suits them they write (anonymous) “neutral” letters.
Guy’s: at least have the dignity to say who you are and what your agenda is.
This is crazy! I don’t see any reason AT ALL that this op-ed should be anonymous except that the writer cannot stand behind his / her words…
If the author wants to have us join him, we, THE VOTERS, should sign. Over 2000 people voted for change. I truly hope Rabbi Rosenberg hasn’t been “got at” by the losers & their supporters. I’m beginning to think that’s what happened. How else can you explain the lack of closure?
and I totally agree
we must have a big vaad, and we need people from the old vaad to show the new vaad what to do, if we have only 3, and 2 of the 3 are little kids that will be a disaster, we need the Rabbi to let at least 6 newpeople run
What do you care who R; Rosenberg talks to. He’s allowed to talk to whoever he wants. The runoff is obviously for the next 3 vote-getters only. Nobody has suggested otherwise. What’s the tumult? Evberything’s under control and Rabbi Rosenberg has done and is continuing to do a fantastic job. He is really helping to bring shalom to CH. He should only be commended.
All this trouble is coming from 1 person and he’s not doing it for toivas hashchunah. May the Almighty bless this person to realize the damage that he’s done over the years and the damage he’s currently doing. He needs to back away from any involvement regarding our shchunah. As we prepare for a fresh start it would be wise that BOTH Rabbonim get a fresh start as well and clean house of ALL the crony’s that have been hanging out there for years.
FYI this mess that we’re in is all due to the bylaws being broken before the election.
I was wondering why it’s taken so long to announce the runner up elections. Now that the recount was done it’s very clear on who won & who the runner up’s are with no Machloikes.
We the people are anxiously waiting for the “Schunas” business to be completed in a timely manner.
with Kovod
YY a member from Anash
i voted for shalom/achdus, not for machlokes.
please leave the old va’ad, the OLD va’ad.
let start to build beautiful new things with a new va’ad, Beachdus! because Beachdus we can do so much more!
I agree with the writer.
I TOTALLY agree, with the writer of this letter!
However, I’m NOT witholding my name. Because I believe, people should not be afraid, or intimidated, to voice their view with their REAL name!
Ecourdeng to what this article is saying Rabbi Rosenborg should of not let shea hecht run and if he is not making deals we need a nother election becouse it was not fear that shea was able to run and the votes would of come oput diffrentley if not for him
This letter is amazing. I agree
Having the runoff elections at a time when many of the residents that voted in the first election will be out of town (country etc.) is not fair and will cause many people to say that the new Vaad is not what was voted for.
this is what most of the people i speak to are saying. its very well written & no need for apology, if i had written it, i’d surely sign my name
well said .if rabbi rosenberg has more then 3 in the runoff the machlokes in this community will never end . the people voted and spoke and dont want the previous people and to try to get them in by changing the rules we are doomed and rabbi rosenbergs effort will be wasted.
Everything that is happening now after the elections is simply the Satan trying to stop true peace from emerging because he sees the BH we are headed in the right direction.
nice letter
and good points
now lets get on with the show