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Tuesday, 15 Tishri, 5782
  |  September 21, 2021

What Infected Frum Dating?

OP-ED: Frum Jewish men, often spurred on by their imperial and see-no-imperfection mothers, are becoming increasingly shallow and vain. They may study Gemara and Chassidus but clearly the light of a G-dly life is not necessarily altering their world-views, writes Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. Full Article

Yehoshua Bronstein OBM

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confused
April 1, 2009 10:20 am

what if a girl is skinny and pretty, but not the brightest? does she get a date fatster?

h
March 29, 2009 10:33 am

about skinny girls:
AND IF IM A BIT HEAVIER, I WILL NEVER GET MARRIED?
-(a girl)

and anyway, listening to shmuely boteach abt one thing, and then disgracing him abt the other? hes all ‘off the derech’ for TV and all that, but suddenly for talking abt dating, hes Kosher? what hipocrisy!

LET IT BE KNOWN... ITS VERY SIMPLE !!!!!!
March 28, 2009 5:12 pm

SOMEONE SAID NO TO HIS DAUGHTER.(AND HE CANT HACK IT)
END OF DISCUSSION!

AN INSIDER…

to # 38
March 28, 2009 3:26 pm

thanks for being honest and realistic, i would like to add another point, im a girl you could date, im pretty and slim and have a caring and kind personality. however you are not interested, because you want only a loud girl, from crown heights or somewhere local, with a very outgoing and flamboyant personality – a ‘cute’ person! you are not looking at the inside, into what makes someone into a good person, or what will make a good marriage partner in the long run! you are not neccessarily looking for a considerate, kind and giving person. I think… Read more »

In Defense of Images, or, It's Not So Black and White
March 28, 2009 2:35 pm

In Defense of Images , or, It’s Not So Black and White Having painted portraits for many years, I know that there is something to be said about emotional response to a one dimensional image, a photograph. I’m no Kabbalist, however, there is specific text in the Zohar which equates particular personality characteristics to the measurement of/and between facial features, as well as information to be gleaned from such particulars as hair color, texture, etc. Although the actual information can only truly be understood by those who are granted these insights, the fact remains that certain sensibilities are evoked by… Read more »

# 48
March 28, 2009 1:40 pm

in english now…

Astonishing!!!!!
March 27, 2009 1:46 pm

Shocking how people validate such idiocy with comments…the distinct buzzing of dung beetles come to mind when reading this “concerned article”.
but seriously folks this ranks amongst the most purile and sophmoric concoctions of a diassociative mind, enriched with all the profundity of a flattened teaspoon!
although i deem this unworthy of the ascerbic wit of my quill, nevertheless i will deign to the abyssmal depths of your amatuer attempts to vilify mother nature in all her superlative glory.

LUBAVITCH BACHUR
March 27, 2009 10:10 am

ALL BACHURIM IN LUBAVITCH WANT A PRETTY / ATTRACTIVE GIRL.

THATS THE WAY BACHURIM ARE THESE DAYS.

LIVE WITH THE TIMES.

to #45
March 27, 2009 9:09 am

You are totally right. I am always thankful to that i am a lubavitch girl. But it’s usually when you have something, you don’t appreciate it. I think everyone in Chabad/Lubavitch should be thankful that at the end of the day we get to chose who we marry, and that it is not like 50 years ago where the 2 parents meet, trade a chicken and a cow and their children get married. Or even how it’s still in some communities (not the trading cows, chicken part ) However, i am NOT putting them down. If it works for them,… Read more »

from a flatbusher
March 27, 2009 4:45 am

Its evrywhere, if not a lot worse in communities like Flatbush, 5 towns and even borough park. Chabad is amazing, dont put yourselves down.

im a loser baby
March 27, 2009 4:34 am

i’m such a loser to put the 44th comment on a stupid story which is obvious to us all

anybody that posts after me is an even bigger loser than i am

a skinny girl
March 27, 2009 1:22 am

a skinny girl also deserved a good chassidishe boy, didn’t she? she’s not guilty she’s skinny…

the hell with pomegranets
March 26, 2009 6:59 pm

You see that type of a title caught your attention so you look at the cover and it looks good now what? Now you got to open the dam book and read it! We can’t just judge by the cover we gota see the whole story each page has lots of details! I love my pomegranet her seeds are beautiful and amazingly tasty! But when I took her off the shelf I thought she was a papaya. And then I thought this could be the most phenominal pomegranet ever and so it is. I read this article as a friend… Read more »

Biased
March 26, 2009 6:29 pm

What’s up with all the bochurim bashing??
The girls do the same thing…

painful
March 26, 2009 4:45 pm

its painful..this community.
So rabbi shmuleywrites an article..
we have all this bored soulswith their ridiculous comments…

no words!
March 26, 2009 3:24 pm

G-d help us all!

Responce to # 25
March 26, 2009 2:25 pm

I cant agree with you more! While in concept its right that bochrim shouldn’t care at all about looks and the only thing that really matters is whats in the inside etc. and I Could preach about it all day long… BUT at the end of the day “I” want to marry someone pretty, and i think I’m a really awesome guy who can do really well and find a pretty wife with a pretty inside as well!!! I am not going to be the one to compromise! This is whats going on in every bochurs mind and in their… Read more »

problems
March 26, 2009 2:12 pm

when bochrim are “convinced” to merry someone that they don’t find attractive, the wedding ends up in divorce. I have 2 friends that went through a divorce for this very reason. Its truth that Its a shame for the good girls that are not attractive but is better being not married than divorced…

rabbi shmuley tells the truth
March 26, 2009 1:19 pm

AMAZING ARTICLE!!!! everything he says is true, its just that some people dont want to adress the issues and pretend they dont exist. The system must be fixed!!! We must practice as we preach

to 34
March 26, 2009 1:04 pm

When your criticism is personal in nature it simply means that the person you are disagreeing with is a. correct and b. the shoe fits. Vida”l grow up.

Its the Yechus
March 26, 2009 12:26 pm

Hey Shmuly, the reason alot daughters are having a hard time is because of the father, not their looks. So stop giving Bocherim a bad name and check into your own actions. The girls cansel dates because of a picture/looks more often than the boys.

Nothing to worry about.
March 26, 2009 10:45 am

I don’t understand what Shmuly is so worked up about, His daughters are good looking.

To number 30
March 26, 2009 10:43 am

You sound so shallow, i’m embarrassed for you. Incase you haven’t noticed yet, the women portrayed in the movies are almost always tiny and pretty/attractive. Yes, they do use photoshop and lighting and make-up to help the situation, but off-set too, these women all have their make-up artists, daily spa treatments, and personal trainers. Only a man who is willing to provide all that for his wife, can expect her to look glamarous and pretty all the time. Besides, is that the way were headed? P.s. I can’t say the streets of crown heights have the best lighting, maybe you… Read more »

to #30
March 26, 2009 10:34 am

this is exacly the problem
girls shouldnt be just thought how to dress… the bochurim should be thought not to look only at it!!! the should look more at thier personalitly, midos chassidishkeit etc….

Looking good.
March 26, 2009 9:59 am

A bochur should not be “talked into” marrying someone whom he is not attracted to, it can only cause problems down the road. If bochrim today are only attracted to thin girls, then so be it.

There are lots of girls out there that have tremendous potential, but unfortunately they don’t know how to dress or apply makeup.

In case you haven’t yet noticed, the women portrayed in movies are mostly average or even ugly. Using Photoshop, lighting effects, shadow effects and professional makeup can make ANYONE look good.

Perhaps girls should be taught how to dress…

G-d creates the Chemistry between a husband and wife
March 26, 2009 9:55 am

The only purpose of this article is to remind us to include Hashem in our search for our spouse. Hashem creates the chemistry between future husbands and wifes. Thank g-d we all know there is someone for us . I read a very moving article about a handicapped woman finding her shidduch.She is now happily married. Until Mochiach comes we all have our handicaps, some are visible some are not. Let’s be respectful and decent human being while we are in the process of finding our spouse. Let’s remember that the greatest matchmaker of all is the one that creates… Read more »

Shadchan
March 26, 2009 9:51 am

To Rabbi Shmuley Boteach: My following suggestion is very serious, I am not being sarcastic. It doesn’t matter what people think of you, and it doesn’t matter what you are busy doing at the moment. You are a brilliant person. I read every single one of your books that you wrote over the years. You have been bemoaning the SHIDDUCH SCENE for quite some time. How about if you get involved, get to know all the girls and the boys. You are good at getting into any company of people . Make farbrengens, speeches, whatever, and start making shidduchim. You… Read more »

Been there...
March 26, 2009 8:26 am

My daughter was one of the top girls in Lubavitch. I thought she would be sought after. No, some mothers were scared, she was brilliant, chassidish, accomplished and had a “clean record” and good name. Way fewer people were interested than I could have imagined. A few mothers did see her worth. Her now husband, who was a very serious chassidish bochor, told her that he and his friends would only consider a “thin” girl (he wasn’t a toothpick himself!). BH, my exceptional daughter was cute and thin enough. It’s a”buyer’s market” for the boys and their ever picky mothers.

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT
March 26, 2009 8:26 am

the girl did not die because she was anorexic
she had other health issues
makes for a good story, shame its untrue

bochur
March 26, 2009 8:14 am

While i definetly agree that its a bit sick but thats the way the world was made, men have tavais nashim, and to be very blunt the taivah is for pretty nashim! so if the girl really cared about her future potential match she’d realize that this in inevitable a part of him and do what she has to do to be pretty. not caring how you look, depriving your potential match of good looks shows that you dont really care about him and thats shows a problem with your “inside” as well.

To 22 - Vice Versa
March 26, 2009 8:08 am

I must say that I was shocked to read your story.

I find it really terrible that you would go through such lengths to get someone to agree to go on a date with you.

Anyone that shallow, to expect you to lose weight like that is totally not worthy of even a second glance.

And what happens if you gain that weight back?
Would you C”V get divorced?

Very sad and very true...
March 26, 2009 8:06 am

As a lubavitch girl I’ve realized this is true, and it’s so sad,really. Look how much the world has got into us yidden! If Shmuly is or is not the person you want to take it from take it any way,and take to heart.Besides,bochurim, do you think its so easy for us girls to stay so thin? if we ate the way you did…I dont think you would want to know what we would look like =)

Vise Versa...
March 26, 2009 8:04 am

Why do you think it is only men that turn down women b/c of looks etc. I think women are just as guilty. Here is a story to illustrate: Im male and 24 years of age, 5’5 and 185 pounds. One would say I was on the huskier side. A girl was mentioned for me that I was interested in pursuing. The phone calls began back and forth, and after a few days it came back to me that I was to heavy for her small frame, they compared me to “Big Gedaliah Gumber.” Anyways I asked the shaddchan to… Read more »

most people here (including shmuely) are very opiniated and critical BUT
March 26, 2009 7:54 am

what do you base it on? talking with 20 bochim out of 500? what kind of statistics is this?
ALL THE BOCHRIM I ENCOUNTER AND SUROUND MYSELF WITH ARE NOT AT ALL LIKE THIS!! THEY LOOK FOR FRUM GIRLS, NOT JUST CHASSIDISH (WHATEVER THAT MEANS) AND TOICHENDIGE GIRLS.
START USING RYOUR RIGHT EYE SHMUELY AND SOME OF YOU.
A BOCHUR IN THE SHIDUCH SCENE

MOVIES
March 26, 2009 7:37 am

YES IT IS MOVIES AND BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THATS CORRUPTING EVERYBODY’S MINDS- THE GIRLS TOO…

dates
March 26, 2009 7:29 am

a generation ago, people were discreet, they did not discuss their dates with their friends. Today, the bochrim as well as the girls badmouth all the dates they went out with that didn’t work, end of story: everybody badmouthing everybody

watching movies
March 26, 2009 7:22 am

if the bochrim would STOP watching movies, I promise you that they would stop fantasizing. They sit in their basements all thru the night watching. Maybe Rabbi Shmuly Boteach could address this problem, which I sincerely believe is the root to all evil, and convince the bochrim to STOP WATCHING MOVIES!!!!!!!!

Great article.
March 26, 2009 6:17 am
#7-What's going on?
March 26, 2009 5:57 am

Is it an improvement on the first time around?

Ummm
March 26, 2009 5:54 am

Skinny? That is not pretty. In the real world guys don’t want skinny girls who are sticks . It’s only the mothers that want skinny pretty tall daughter in laws . Never mind that real skinny people are usually whiney and annoying . It’s not their fault . They are hungry.

WallaWabba
March 26, 2009 5:51 am

I agree with And So?, Shmully makes some great points, but Shmully isn’t who we should be getting this advice from.

How about some qualified Chabad leaders, we have some great talent out there now. I’d rather hear it from them then a wanna be hollywood dr phill

I'd like to know...
March 26, 2009 5:46 am

1. Which frum people are asking, form all the shidduch experts out there, SHMULY BOTEACH from all people for his advice? That person needs to have his head examined.
2. To Shmuly: from the way your life has been so far (Michael Jackson, your books, etc.) it doesnt seem like you practice what you are preaching in this article – worldly pursuits seem to be all your after…

The frame of the sky (I love it)
March 26, 2009 5:34 am

The truth is behind the heart drawn on the sky but the firm staircase to it is the deep wisdom

And so?
March 26, 2009 5:31 am

He’s right, but as usual he just editorializes & doesn’t come up with any concrete proposals. He just likes seeing his name in print. His bookcases must be full of Shmully albums.

Dump the colossal ego & come up with a plan if you’re so smart. Personally, I’d rather hear from Manis Friedman on this issue. He someone with ethics & values, not someone who writes about personal behaviors to make a buck.

The Sad Truth is Spoken
March 26, 2009 5:27 am

Thank you for being so honest and telling people what they need to hear but don’t want to.

P.S. To #9: Tell me about sister!

pretty with personality
March 26, 2009 5:16 am

Pretty girls who have personality have it just as hard.

great article
March 26, 2009 4:56 am

Hopefully this article will open up the guys eyes to the real world. Being that I myself am in the same boat as the other girls I myself have very similar stories to the ones mentioned. Some of them are actually so ridiculous its hard to believe that they are actually true. Trust me they are. Thank you Shmuly for your article. I think there needs to be more written on this topic so we can finally do something to change the current situation. If not things will just get worse. Thanks again for posting this!

Chabad Divorcee
March 26, 2009 4:54 am

How true Shmuley, I agree.
BTW have you noticed whats going on in the second-time-round world?
I’de love to email you, could you publicize your email address?

no title
March 26, 2009 4:36 am

Hold on…did you never hear of a girl cancelling because the boy was on the heavier side??!! Dont tell me the boys are looking just for thin mates.

People take note
March 26, 2009 4:33 am

Hear Hear! Well written Rabbi Shmuely! Now what happens though? How can we change a persons view for the better. They might read this and think, he is right, and then go back to doing exactly what they used to do, as it is so ingrained in them.

the solution
March 26, 2009 4:33 am

the problem, at least in Chabad since this is a Chabad site is in the Rabbonim mashpiim and big shots.

they have no clue on how to do their jobs right and they are afraid to open their mouths when the few who do know what to say don’t say anything.

if there is anyone left in our communities who care they should demand more from the leaders – maybe just maybe this will encourage better direction and chinuch for the children

frist time i agree with boteach
March 26, 2009 4:26 am

Please, please, bochurim

Don’t let their high heel boots or extreme makeovers that some girls do, get hold of you.

It’s a trap. Plain and simple. All your life you will have to pay for your future wives addiction to the latest styles.

Will she be a caring and dedicated mother and wife that is what you have to ask deep down.

why?
March 26, 2009 4:15 am

Why is he always writing about shidduchim? thats like 5th article in the last 2 years I’ve seen from him on this topic. Tell shmuly to get a life and write about more interesting topics. First of all I dont believe half of those stories. He makes them up for the article. I am a lubavitcher bochur and know many more bochrim than him and he is making this stuff up. Seems to me like he has some specific issue and is blaming the whole lubavich for it. Stop crying, while hiding it in these “very thought provoking articles”. They… Read more »

He is 100% right
March 26, 2009 3:40 am

If I were a frum young lady right now, I would even consider waiting a few years to find someone who has some maturity, compassion, better developed middos, and time away from Mommy. Middos are more important (and harder to learn) than how much Gemara you can cram into your brain, and if you’re doing it just for the sake of saying you’re a “learning boy” and therefore “deserve” a skinny girl with a rich daddy, you may make your Momma happy, but HaShem is NOT!

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