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Thursday, 7 Kislev, 5783
  |  December 1, 2022

What Happened at Manalapan Restaurant Non-Kosher Bust

The Vaad HaKashrus of the OK Kosher details how they discovered that the owner of the Kosher Chinese Express in Manalapan, New Jersey was smuggling in non-kosher chicken and meat. Full Story

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what about ingesting the products?
September 8, 2022 4:47 pm

The keilim are only a part of the issue- what about all those peope who ingested the treif food? Awful!
If this could happen with a mashgiach temidi- does that make all restaurants questionable?

Joe in Australia
Reply to  what about ingesting the products?
September 8, 2022 6:46 pm

I was with Harav Yitzchok Dovid Groner Z”L once and he said (not his exact words) “People are very particular about the kashrus of meat but meat is actually very simple: if you do this, this, and this, the meat is kosher. They don’t realise how many halachic questions there are about the kashrus of a bag of potato chips.”

So yes, all restaurants are questionable, but so is almost every processed food. All we can do is rely on halacha.

Treif meat
Reply to  Joe in Australia
September 8, 2022 7:20 pm

But treif meat is much more serious that potato chips.

you don't understand
Reply to  Treif meat
September 8, 2022 8:00 pm

a bag of potato chips could also be treif meat

McDonald's fries
Reply to  you don't understand
September 9, 2022 12:38 am

https://www.insider.com/mcdonalds-original-1955-fries-vs-modern-mcdonalds-fries
As it is well known that they would use beef tallow.

This is all very Simple
September 8, 2022 4:48 pm

A MASHGIACH TIMIDI with a non jewish owner (even Jew that was not vetted) does not help. The mashgiach Timidi does a loop around and then sits at the front of the restaurant snoozing away. Any goy that wants to play games with cutting costs on the kushrus can easily bring treif in. The lesson is simple, this isn’t the Ok jashrus being a bad kushrus certifcation. This isn’t the mashgiach’s fault. This is our fault- we as frum yidden should only buy from establishments that have a frum earlich owner.

May this be a lesson.

Frum fraudsters too
Reply to  This is all very Simple
September 8, 2022 5:03 pm

A frum owner doesn’t always help. Look what happened at glatt kosher butchers in Monsey and Flatbush.

Agree
Reply to  Frum fraudsters too
September 8, 2022 5:38 pm

Unless you shecht and clean your own animals, and grow and harvest and clean your own vegetation, and filter your own water, and only eat from those products; at some point in your food chain, you’re going to be trusting someone and some process. It’s simply a trust issue and the level of which you want to apply to your food ingestion. When you eat in someone’s house, you’re trusting their adherence. When you buy anything mass produced you’re trusting various people and processes….

I Don't Expect
Reply to  Agree
September 8, 2022 8:20 pm

True to some extent but one does not expect someone else to be buying/cooking/serving outright treif food.

This was a miserable failure on the part of the supervision. The owner? Not surprised… what would you expect from somebody who has no obligation to keep kosher?

I never eat from non Frum owned establishments
Reply to  Agree
September 11, 2022 1:27 am

You have many points that are correct. However since I learned by my father who survived Siberia keeping Kosher that not every single thing with Hashgacha in America need be eaten by me, I do not eat from non Frum stores ( I skip some skeezy looking Frum stores too). Just because someone with Smicha takes money to certify a store does not mean you have to eat there.

Chochom ma hu omer
Reply to  This is all very Simple
September 8, 2022 11:08 pm

If you say that only to buy from establishments that have a frum erlich owner, good idea but you won’t be buying too much food products.

You see, all food products are processed in factories and a goy owner might want to play games…

Buying food products is EXACTLY like buying restaurant food. Potato chips and candy and spices and most things in your kitchen pantry are all made only by companies NOT owned by frum erlich yidden.

Really now
Reply to  Chochom ma hu omer
September 11, 2022 1:30 am

Having worked for various Hashgachas in food service ( what you may call restaurants and catering) as well as in production ( what you may call factories) I beg to differ. Food production is often much more strictly regulated and Ehrlich knowledgeable certifiers know which factories need full time vs drop in certification. They also review purchase orders and production data.

Tremendous responsibility
September 8, 2022 4:50 pm

This is why I gave up my being a mashgiach,the responsibility is way too high for me, more power to the ones that can do a really good job at it. Otherwise, wow wow wow we need Moshiach NOW!!!!

Was the owner arrrested ?
September 8, 2022 5:05 pm

Was the owner arrested? If not, why not?

Arrested on What Charge?
Reply to  Was the owner arrrested ?
September 8, 2022 8:22 pm

What criminal charge would be appropriate?
Maybe there was fraud here, but not for the cost of a meal.

Silly
Reply to  Was the owner arrrested ?
September 8, 2022 8:49 pm

Because it’s not a crime

Criminal
Reply to  Silly
September 9, 2022 7:26 am

Fraud is a crime.

However
Reply to  Criminal
September 9, 2022 12:02 pm

Who would bring charges?

Prove you were damaged by his fraud. You MAY have a chance at a civil lawsuit.

Kosher display
Reply to  Silly
September 9, 2022 12:16 pm

You are not exactly right because under the NY kosher laws if you display a kosher sign and sell non kosher you could in fact be arrested and prosecuted.

Maybe because he's a yid.
Reply to  Was the owner arrrested ?
September 15, 2022 11:44 pm

But this is indeed a punishable crime.
It’s like selling counterfeit goods.

Could also very likely be since he WAS technically kosher certified albeit incorrectly, that’s really not him selling anything “counterfeit” it was indeed kosher as far as the kosher consumer is concerned and the advertising as such is not wrong in a LEGAL sense.
At least if i was his lawyer i feel i could make that case.

There is NO excuse
September 8, 2022 5:07 pm

True it’s always better to have a frum owner, but what is the Mashgiach temidi for if not to temidi-constantly be on the watch? The OK and its Mashgichim, in the end should take FULL responsibility for having failed their promise to the public.

Mashgiach
Reply to  There is NO excuse
September 8, 2022 5:49 pm

A mashgiach has many responsibilities, and it’s very possible to sneak something in while the mashgiach is busy with one of those responsibilities, for example when a delivery of food comes it has to be checked to make sure that all the items are acceptable for the establishment, and while he’s busy with that it is possible to sneak something in if the owner really wants to.

Tamidi
Reply to  Mashgiach
September 8, 2022 8:23 pm

So the Mashgiach is NOT expected to be watching at all times?

Mashgiach
Reply to  Tamidi
September 9, 2022 12:14 am

It’s not a question of whether he is expected to be watching the whole time, it’s a question of whether it’s possible to be doing things and seeing everything that’s going on the same time, I could tell you from experience that it’s not possible.

Hashem yishmor
September 8, 2022 5:08 pm

How do we know that there aren’t many other restaurants doing the same

IKR
Reply to  Hashem yishmor
September 8, 2022 8:24 pm

I know, right?

It’s almost as if people need to seriously rethink this whole going to some other place to eat thing.

This is what happens when people put convenience and luxury at the top of the list.

Mashgiach
September 8, 2022 5:42 pm

I was a mashgiach the work is very difficult and responsibility is extreme, part of the duty includes washing vegetables, when you are involved with that it takes all your concentration, and you can’t see what’s going on behind you, so if the owners want to bring something non kosher into the establishment it is quiet easy. I spoke with my friend who currently works for the OK, and he told me that he is not furnished with a list of the acceptable kosher items that are permitted in the establishment, and that is a huge problem that must be… Read more »

If he was only sneaking
September 8, 2022 5:54 pm

Little amounts at a time. Wouldn’t it be batel bishishim?

חתיכה הראויה להתכבד
Reply to  If he was only sneaking
September 8, 2022 11:04 pm

No, because it’s definetly חתיכה הראויה להתכבד.

Good to check for yourself
September 8, 2022 6:01 pm

Every meat restaurant who has the ok hashgocha are their mashgichim frum chassidishe mashigichim? When going to a restaurant ask to speak to the mashgiach of the restaurant ask what meat they use the best is to see if he is a yirei shomayim mashgiach if you can trust the hechsher

how
Reply to  Good to check for yourself
September 8, 2022 7:52 pm

how do you know if he is yirei sahmayim? because he has a white shirt?
maybe if he wears a black yarmulke?

Yes
Reply to  how
September 8, 2022 8:26 pm

White shirt, black yarmulke. Langer payos is a plus. The beard? Big and fluffy. Check for regular use of “nu” and “eppis.”

Takeh!

Admire
September 8, 2022 6:31 pm

Those that never eat in restaurants. There are always stories- and those are just the ones we hear about- there’s obviously lots that can go wrong in any restaurant, even with a mashgiach.

how
Reply to  Admire
September 8, 2022 7:54 pm

Whats the difference between a restaurant and food prepared by a corporation?

Lots
Reply to  how
September 8, 2022 9:24 pm

There’s a lot more room to mess around in a restaurant.

Joe in Australia
September 8, 2022 6:39 pm

The stories don’t stack up. The dumpster contained *boxes* of treif chicken and meat that had been served to kosher customers. I presume those dumpsters are emptied at least a couple of times a week, perhaps daily, so this is way more than could arrive by being “snuck in” in small amounts. It’s obvious that the restaurant was actually receiving deliveries of treif meat, wheeled in through the back door like any other delivery. Consequently, if the mashgichim are honest (as I expect) the owner has their own keys, or knows how to undetectably repack treif meat into empty boxes… Read more »

Can they share how many years?
September 8, 2022 6:52 pm

It makes a difference. When did this start

6 months
Reply to  Can they share how many years?
September 8, 2022 7:23 pm

They said 6 months

Take it from the thief
Reply to  Can they share how many years?
September 8, 2022 7:34 pm

It’s only been in recent months

Seems like
September 8, 2022 9:07 pm

The owner might have had a key and snuck in the treif chicken overnight well after the establishment was closed for the day.

Also, People might want to consider NOT supporting restaurants that are owned by people who don’t have the fear of Hashem to be responsible to the laws of KASHRUS, as in this case !

Experienced Mashgiach
September 8, 2022 11:03 pm

There seems to be something amiss with the policies of the hashgacha. The Mashgiach should be the only one opening the packages of poultry and meats to make sure that it has a proper kosher seal. The Mashgiach should also mark each box at receiving so that unmarked boxes can be spotted easily. Additionally, any expert Mashgiach knows a kosher chicken from a treif chicken. It’s easy to tell them apart (without tasting them).

How can you tell
Reply to  Experienced Mashgiach
September 9, 2022 4:19 am

How can you tell the difference from a treife chicken and kosher one when raw?

Please expound
Reply to  Experienced Mashgiach
September 9, 2022 7:54 am

How do you tell them apart?

Already Stated Years Ago
Reply to  Please expound
September 9, 2022 12:05 pm

Years ago that’s how some other scandal was noticed.

Treif chickens are dipped in boiling water to loosen the feathers. You can tell by the skin.

The ba’al teshuvah noticed the chicken skin was too smooth.

Seen it before
September 9, 2022 3:49 am

In my home town, the goy butcher (who worked there for 30 years!) in the community butcher shop was (eventually) caught cutting up treif meat at night in the store, which he was shipping to another city.

Nobody believed he was actually putting the treif in the store, but equally, nobody could be 100% sure he didn’t, even accidentally. But all the knives etc were treifed up. And apparently he had been doing it for years.

Who CAN you trust? Even so-called frum Yidden have done the same thing.

Reality Check
September 9, 2022 4:12 am

We are living in times of Moshiach Not just in words, and Golus is real It’s not a perfect world, Yet and this is were we all come in as real participants/members bringing the Chinuch which The Rabbeim through their Mesiras Nefesh instilled/provided all of us with the power to bring the light everywhere we go and at every step “Together” Nothing just happens by coincidence , lets open our eyes and internalize what’s taking place and apply individually to our self/family and those around us/come in contact with Not H”V to criticize to bring it down but to lift… Read more »

Keys
September 9, 2022 8:07 am

It seems like the ok policy of having the keys for the refrigerators and freezers is not 100% effective. What else needs to be done? Cameras, additional mashgichim, …?

Cameras
Reply to  Keys
September 11, 2022 4:00 am

Cameras would be great. But who is going to review the footage? 24 hours of footage per camera per day and probably you need more than one camera because there is more than one entrance to the store.

Double seal!
September 9, 2022 9:39 am

Now we know why halacha demands two kosher seals for meat! Meat should not be left in the hands of goyim !! May Hashem protect us!

Most Hechsher products have no Mashgiach Temidi
September 9, 2022 3:24 pm

Most manufactured products that have a Hechsher DO NOT HAVE A MASHGIACH TEMIDI! Mashgichim visit the manufacturing plants (at best) only A FEW TIMES A YEAR! Usually the plant is informed beforehand that a Mashgiach will be coming! The plants are owned by goyim, and many are in far-flung places all over the world, including the Far-East etc. For example, flavoring and coloring, which is used in a MULTITUDE of Kosher products, is also extracted from insects, mosquitoes, etc. How can we be sure that the plant in Vietnam (or any other place) doesn’t substitute the agreed upon Kosher ingredient… Read more »

Hard to understand
September 10, 2022 11:31 pm

Video cameras are so inexpensive and can be monitored anywhere with a phone. If the mashgichim are saying they can’t see everything while they are busy washing vegetables, and this is a problem they know and recognize, why can’t it be addressed?!

Mashgiach Temidi
September 11, 2022 5:39 am

A Mashgiach Temidi especially for a Fleishig Resturant is certainly a must but in today’s world it is far from enough to ensure Kashrus. A Goy owner and operator is simply way to risky and a collision course for eventual disaster. And it basically cancels out the effectiveness of a Mashgiach regardless. On the most part my wife and I try and keep any Resturant visits and takeout to Milchig only and any Fleishigs when necessary we evaluate not simply by the Kashrus sign on the window but rather the facts on the ground and sizing up not only the… Read more »

Stop the guessing
September 12, 2022 11:47 pm

It seems like the owner gave in to admitting his wrongdoings, why can’t he just give us the answers as to how he snuck it in and all the other questions we have. (Maybe he did and there’s a reason it’s not being shared with us)

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