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Tuesday, 19 Av, 5779
  |  August 20, 2019
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    We Must Avoid the Chilul Hashem

    From the COLlive inbox: When a consumer of "Mivtzoim Mezuzos" has them checked, isn't there a possibility of a "Chillul Hashem"? Full Story

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    It's not just mitzvoim concerns
    Guest
    It's not just mitzvoim concerns

    The problem is also for people who can’t afford the rents they consider high and need mezuzos.

    Agree
    Guest
    Agree

    I agree 100%

    Also thanks for writing an actual name and not staying anonymous like previous articles

    Wishful thinking
    Guest
    Wishful thinking

    I would wish that everyone would want to pay what it costs to have a kosher mezuzah according to all opinions. Fact of the matter is that most mivtzoyim people won’t pay that amount and they don’t care if it’s not kosher according to all opinions so long as it’s kosher. You write a whole mouthful saying that we need to realize that we should take the high road when in fact we cannot take it in this case. You’re fooling yourself if you think that by just explaining to people what goes into it they will want to pay… Read more »

    Chill Hashem
    Guest
    Chill Hashem

    That’s like saying that when a jew asks if chalav akum is kosher and you say not for you it’s a chill hashem for the non chabad.

    Just because it’s not the opinion of the Sofer, it’s not a chill hashem

    Are you kidding?
    Guest
    Are you kidding?

    If Rabbi Vainer said these are kosher as was proven I. A different article, that’s good enough for me.

    במחילת כבודך
    Guest
    במחילת כבודך

    Seems like you’re lacking basic knowledge and understanding in STAM. The issue was discussed at length previously. To your knowledge ALL the vendors on the Avenue DO FULLY adhere to the guidelines of the letter from the BADATZ that you mention, and more requirements, each vendor according to his standards. No one went out of their way to “kasher” problems. No Sofer/magiha in his right mind is out to pass on real problems. There are klolim in hagoho and how to pasken. Every Sofer/magiha who is properly trained follows those klolim. So no sir, absolutely no chilul ‘H to provide… Read more »

    Cholent
    Guest
    Cholent

    You keep making a cholent of our standard and mivtzoyim standard. While our standard should be higher, it’s fact that across the board we lower the standards for mivtzoyim people. We lower the standards when it comes to sitting together by parties and Rabbi’s speech. We lower the standard in a million other ways as well

    Shliach explains
    Guest
    Shliach explains

    If the shliach explains that they’re simple and according to the more lenient opinions and that not every Sofer agrees with the lenient opinions, why would it be a chill hashem?

    Instead of explaining why they should pay more and having them change their mind, explain that these are basic

    Here we go again
    Guest
    Here we go again

    Different name but same message…. We’re not fooled. We know the truth. If it’s kosher, it’s kosher enough for me. Stop telling me that I need your level of kashrus in order to be kosher.

    Who decides the level of security
    Guest
    Who decides the level of security

    Who are you to decide what level of security we get with the cheap mezuzahs vs the level of security for expensive mezuzahs?

    It goes by the heart. If I want a mezuzah and get a cheap one because that’s where I’m at, Hashem accepts it and gives me security.

    If I’m bigoted and self richeous and get a fancy mezuzah so that I can look ultra religious, Hashem sees through it and I don’t get security.

    Price doesn’t matter. Hashem wants heart not money.

    Sure, extraordinary extents
    Guest
    Sure, extraordinary extents

    Having a rov oasken they’re kosher – big time extraordinary

    Inconsistent
    Guest
    Inconsistent

    You seem to agree that we need kosher mezuzos but then say that it needs to be kosher according to all. Make up your mind

    To no. 9 and everyone
    Guest
    To no. 9 and everyone

    His POINT is, who says it’s Kosher?
    On the other comments thread many people said they bought on Kingston, whether for mivtzoim or not, and when they got them checked they were found to be P.O.S.U.L.
    MYD wolf’s POINT was, you can’t trust the storeowners who have interest in making money, as proven time and again with many peoples experiences.
    Try to think critically and not biasedly.

    To no. 10
    Guest
    To no. 10

    Are you trolling? Or do you really think yiddishkeit works like that? Because it doesn’t.

    Well said
    Guest
    Well said

    Figure that a piece of 12 cm parchment costs about $3.50 and about $6 for a 20 cm parchment. It will take a well practiced sofer 4-5 hours to write a mezuzah properly. In order to support a family, a sofer should charge $80 minimum for a mezuzah.

    Mivtzah mezuzah
    Guest
    Mivtzah mezuzah

    Each community should fundraise to subsidize the diff in $ between what a decent mezuzah costs and what the Baal habos on mivtxoim is willing to pay ! It will be a great use of tzedoakh money benefiting everyone .

    Funny
    Guest
    Funny

    Funny. On one hand, you defend a landsman from Chicago. On the other hand, your Uncle runs a Judaica store that sold the barely kosher mezuzos. As you say, you are not a sofer so why get involved?

    Selling possul mezuzos THAT is a chilul Hashem!!
    Guest
    Selling possul mezuzos THAT is a chilul Hashem!!
    what a joke
    Guest
    what a joke

    this whole thing is.
    with all the things going on around us, is this really whats making headlines?

    A simple answer
    Guest
    A simple answer

    There is no necessary for Judaica Stores to sell STAM. Obviously they are not Munching in STAM, and presumably they can make a nice Parnossa selling items that do not have a Halachos structure, such as seforim, DVDs, gifts etc. Further the cost structure for a Judaica Store dictates that STAM is probably bought through a middle man not directly from a Sofer, also the retail store probably needs to make a higher mark up on his products to cover the large expenses associated with having a retail store. Let only qualified Sofrim sell STAM direct to the public. If… Read more »

    Shliach
    Guest
    Shliach

    In our community we don’t sell mivtzoyim mezuzos. We explain why its better to have the more expensive ones. We find when it comes to mezuzos once educated people care and will spend the money.

    Why can't we just drop it
    Guest
    Why can't we just drop it

    You do your thing and I’ll do mine. Why can’t we all live on our own terms? If you think it’s a chill hashem, buy more expensive ones. If I think that a rov saying they’re good is good enough for me, it’s good enough for me.

    Time to let this harassment end

    Still wondering
    Guest
    Still wondering

    How this whole accusation was even allowed to pass. It has no legs to stand on. By now we all know that they are 100% kosher

    Extraordinary extent
    Guest
    Extraordinary extent

    I guess you’ve never gotten a heter

    Sofer
    Guest
    Sofer

    From this article you sound a good-hearted Democrat “but I want there to be peace in the whole wide world. And I want my tatty to be a firetruck.” fact of the matter is that it’s not practical.

    You don’t sound like a well educated Sofer who understands the minute nuances of the halachos. Comment 6 said it well. I agree with him.

    These mezuzos are 100% kosher
    Guest
    These mezuzos are 100% kosher

    So how is that a chikul hashem? Better go learn about what a chikul hashem is.

    Empty.
    Guest
    Empty.

    You started well, you gave your name (which is more than i have done), you stated that there is an issue, though some disagree. Then? the rest of your oped is empty, devoid of any real toichen.

    Just because a rav says its kosher bdieved
    Guest
    Just because a rav says its kosher bdieved

    You gatta be tottaly insane to pretend its fully acceptable (especially in the safrus case that the sofrim saying its kosher are the ones selling them – their businessmen, not yirie shamayim but thats another argument entirely)

    Non vcholov yisroel milk is kosher – our standard?
    Cheese after chicken is kosher according to some-our standard?
    Eating everything outside the sukkah eccept pread is permitted- our standard?
    Having marital relations before marriage is permitted (with mikva etc.) Our standard?

    To number 4
    Guest
    To number 4

    You are forgetting the Halacha that you can’t give someone food that is below your kashrus standard. If you want to use this example for STAM, then a Shliach should not be giving people mezuzas he would never dream of putting on his door post.

    Unfortunately it is expensive and tedious to make these mezuzas but that doesn’t mean that we can give up on all the mehudarim because of money.

    funny
    Guest
    funny

    dont think there is money to be made in the lower price mezuzah’s. in addition, this is the living wage for these sofrim. the safrus stores don’t pay them directly.

    the way the business is the sofer writes the mezuzah and sells them to a second party, who brings lots of mezuzahs to the stores and then the stores choose which ones they want

    There's nothing wrong with basic mivtzoyim mezuzos
    Guest
    There's nothing wrong with basic mivtzoyim mezuzos

    Except they need to be checked!!!

    A lot of the pictures in wolf’s slides clearly demonstrate they werent checked at all. So many touching letters, spacing problems, tagin problems. All things that can and should be checked and fixed in a matter of a few minutes.

    If things were checked properly instead of rushing to ship out as many mezuzos as possible, the situation would be very different..

    To #28
    Guest
    To #28

    Really? What a mix up….. Marital relations etc….. – permitted? Are you insane? There’s a major difference. In STAM Kosher is Kosher! Lechatchila or different levels of bedieved as explained in detail in previous writings. You say “they’re businessmen not Yirei shomayim” – what a chutzpah! I wish I’d be able to admonish you in person!!! Who are you to determine that???!!! You’re a mechutzaf and gas ruach!!! To everyone out there, you can never know the true level of Yiras shomayim… is it the color of the clothes? Length of beard? Absolutely not! So each person patronizes people that… Read more »

    Great writing
    Guest
    Great writing

    Great article. writing with all emotion and no fact!!

    To #29 and #31
    Guest
    To #29 and #31

    You’re wrong! Many Rabbonim , mashpi’im and similar, take on Hiddurim in their kashrus standards, and yet allow their families to follow the commonly accepted standard. Don’t impose your Hiddurim on anyone! If the person is ready for a more mehudar standard, great! If not yet, at least he should use the lower basic level. Absolutely, ALL mezuzos ARE scrupulously checjed by very competent magihim. NO VENDOR on the Av. sells any STAM item without proper check including computer checking. S8 knock it off…. As to the issues raised, they were all clarified in previous writings! Please all! Stop this… Read more »

    Great article!
    Guest
    Great article!

    This was finally a breath of fresh air to the articles written on the matter of Mivtzoyim Mezzuzos. Rabbi Hecht nailed it (no pun intended), he make a few valuable points, while not taking sides, or mentioning any names/businesses. Points: A. We, as Chabad Chassidim, who take pride in the Mivtzah Mezzuzah campaign, through the world, under the guidance of the Rebbe, should be a little more proud to sell/give a Mezzuzah, that is not kosher, just by means of may Kulas, -Just like when we perform other mitzvas, with a KOCH, and making sure it’s great and 100 percent… Read more »

    Let me get this straight - because sofrim are saying a mezuzah is pasul when it's Kosher, I have to stop buying those mezuzahs
    Guest
    Let me get this straight - because sofrim are saying a mezuzah is pasul when it's Kosher, I have to stop buying those mezuzahs

    Wow. Logically intact…. Not. This makes zero sense.

    Shluchim but no mivtzoim mezuzos
    Guest
    Shluchim but no mivtzoim mezuzos

    Was going to write the same as 21.
    As shluchim, for the past year or so, we already knew of this issue and we only sell more expensive mezuzos. We let people know why and they are ok with it. We also tell them they can pay us in installments if they want but they should have q good mezuza up.

    To 14
    Guest
    To 14

    Yes it does work like that.

    Avodah shebalev is what Hashem wants more than things.

    enuf already
    Guest
    enuf already

    i think everyone is making the same mistake with mivtzoim mezuzas.they are made chatchila for MIVTZOIM,meaning a starter ,then afterwards they can graduate to better grade.
    most people who buy cheap from judaica stores are students or very simply can’t afford expensive ones.
    stop knocking out people who are trying to make a kosher living,you sound like those liberals/dems who have no idea what a life is

    to #21 please
    Guest
    to #21 please

    It seems like from the comments here, it doesn’t seem like people know why more expensive mezuzos are better. Maybe you can write a comment or another op-ed about why “why its better to have the more expensive ones”. Maybe you can include about what people’s reactions were when they were informed.

    Mivtzoyim Story
    Guest
    Mivtzoyim Story

    Two Lessons from this Balagan 1) A family bought 10 mivtzoyim mezuzos by our Chabad house. Two years later I get a bag of sheimos from them..old mezuzos they say.. 8 of them were the ones I had previously sold them… I rechecked them and some were still ok, but obviously that is not what the other sofer said. 2) This whole balagan is not 100% accurate. If the investigators would have checked the same priced mezuzos by all the sellers than that would have been more correct for comparison. Conclusion: 1) Do not buy cheap mezuzot for yourself or… Read more »

    Seems like the bad vendors are writing half the comments
    Guest
    Seems like the bad vendors are writing half the comments

    The standards are terrible, the writing levels of many of these Mezuzas are appalling and the hagoa (or lack of) s even worse!
    Stop confusing people into thinking that holy magiim purposely left out all those touching letters and other things. Better call it oversight than “Mivtzoim standards”….

    The lack of honosty is blatant.

    To #28
    Guest
    To #28

    For your second & fourth examples, you don’t have any halachik leg to stand on, to permit those actions.

    Dini
    Guest
    Dini

    A mezuzah is there to protect a jew no matter what level he is on or how much money he has. The mezuzah he pays for has to be 100%checked. The sofer that says its kosher and didnt check it like he should to save a few dollars its on his head what will happen to that jew who is unprotected bec of him;)) growing up as a daughter of a sofer i know how imp it is for a mezuzah to be checked its like dimonds a dimond dealer checks each diamond with his whole heart and soul and… Read more »

    To #42
    Guest
    To #42

    You join the group of
    עזי פנים, מוציאי דיבה ושם רע, מוציא לעז, עם הארץ!
    You stamp s8 many people with your venomous words. Shame on you! This is def8nitely NOT how a member of Anash (8f you are??) Should behave and express himself.
    כלך מלשון הרע ומהפצת דברי שנאה ומחלוקת

    Hagoho
    Guest
    Hagoho

    S8nce a lot of ignorance and misinformation is expressed here, I’d like to refer everyone to Rav Klapman’s shey’ talk on STAM at Geshem. He so adequately explained how Hagoho is done and how stringent it has to be. Basically, NO extra lighting NO magnifiers of any kind required, especially NOT TO BE MACHMIR!!!

    Kosher or not kosher
    Guest
    Kosher or not kosher

    I’m still waiting for a Rabbi to come out and say these mezuzos were all kosher. This is embarrassing that some commenters suggest that negiaas are kosher.. or that missing tagim if still lchatchila… Besides who checked these mezuzos? Wouldn’t a different just fix the niggiah, obviously they weren’t checked by qualified sofrim. Besides Rabbi veiner already made it clear that a niggiah is pasul! Not bdieved

    "Mivtzoyim" matzos, food, mikvas, shabbos candles...
    Guest
    "Mivtzoyim" matzos, food, mikvas, shabbos candles...

    In reply to those who say that for mivtzoyim, because people won’t pay more for 100% kosher mezuzas, it is ok to distribute less than 100% kosher – well, what about for other “mivtzoyim” like: Matzos – is it ok to distribute matzos that are not 100% shmura or not 100% non-chometz, if there are some lenient opinions that say such matzos might be considered kosher for passover? Such matzos ARE kosher l’pessach according to “some” opinions AND are cheaper and more affordable! Food – is it ok for Chabad Houses to use food that has a less-than standard hechsher… Read more »

    to # 35 "This must be asked of a Rov"
    Guest
    to # 35 "This must be asked of a Rov"

    Yes, this is what a Rov told me when I was going on Shlichus.
    Better a few doors with good ones (kosher) then all doors with “mitzoim” – which mivtza? mivtza parnassa? – NON Kosher ones.

    Resident
    Guest
    Resident

    As a resident I am sure some of this is true

    Unzer vs Yenem
    Guest
    Unzer vs Yenem

    You are saying there is a kosher for Unzer (us) vs. kosher for Yemen (them).

    There is a Torah for Unzer vs a Torah for Yenem.

    Next there will be an Oibershter for Unzer vs an Oibershter for Yenem!

    There were butchers in the old days of USA that had meat kosher for Unzer vs meat kosher for Yemen.

    Oh. “Yenem” are Jews that are “less Jewish”.

    A slippery slope!

    Yenem can be anyone not directly related, a BT, wears a different hat, has another minhag…you know: not “real” Jews.

     ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
    Guest
    ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

    THERE IS NO END ….

    Reality wake up
    Guest
    Reality wake up

    No one’s says those mezuzahs are kosher the only thing people say that some of the mezuzahs could be fixed after someone checks it
    But from 2 stores can’t fix at all
    So wake up and let’s bring up our standard

    Well said Dini. These mezuzos were not checked. Plain and simple!!
    Guest
    Well said Dini. These mezuzos were not checked. Plain and simple!!

    I wish more sofrim and suppliers of cheap mezuzos were as conscientious as your father. This is the way it should be. Even basic mezuzos need to be checked. If someone sits for a few minutes and checked them all these problems would have been repaired.

    Its a lack of caring. These guys are just about business. Shipping out as many as possible…..its so sad

    When you sell something that is not good quality, means u don’t care
    Guest
    When you sell something that is not good quality, means u don’t care

    About your customer- so others will do ….
    u can buy mezuzah only where u 100% trust ….so instead of urguing take back all and do new ones as a complain of good service….,

    If 28 would only learn SEFER HAMITZVOS
    Guest
    If 28 would only learn SEFER HAMITZVOS

    Example 4- there is no such a thing

    And I know it from SEFER hamitzvos.

    -Chabad girl

    Can of worms
    Guest
    Can of worms

    This ‘mezuzah’ story is much deeper than an argument about mezuzahs being kosher or not. This story exposed what happens when you question the status quo. The beauty of the Torah especially from the Alter Rebbe was partially because he questioned the status quo of everything yiddishkeit. Defensiveness is natural, truth is noble.
    Status quo is comfortable, questions lead to truth.
    A true Chassid tries to leave a comfort zone, not be committed to what is familiar.

    Problem is not " mivtzoim mezuzas"
    Guest
    Problem is not " mivtzoim mezuzas"

    The problem is that many stores are using amateurs to check tefillin and Mezuzas. Many members of anash purchased expensive alter Rebbes Mezuzas and tefillin with errors that could of been avoided by a good ” checker”. FYI All new mezuza s and tefillin MUST be checked before sold!! These stores are guilty in selling Mezuzas and tefillin that are not checked properly. Bottom line: If you want to be absolutely certain that YOUR mezuzas and/ or tefillin are kosher then you MUST have them checked by an independent Soifer. Now that the truth was revealed the finger pointing will… Read more »

    Yossy Hecht
    Guest
    Yossy Hecht

    From the comments, I now see that my article was too brief – not quite clear enough on at least one point. When I stated that there was a possibility of a Chillul Hashem (Chas V’sholom) I didn’t mean that by supplying a mezuzah missing every possible Hiddur it would create any kind of problem. I imagined myself in the role of the not yet knowledgeable kosher consumer that received a Mezuzah from the Rebbe’s Shliach. He is told that the Lubavitcher Rebbe has emphasized the great importance of the biblical commandment to place these Mezuza’s in one’s house. He… Read more »

    Yossy Hecht
    Guest
    Yossy Hecht

    From one of the comments: “Who are you to decide what level of security we get with the cheap mezuzahs vs the level of security for expensive mezuzahs?” = => I didn’t mean that either, at all! I meant that to get the security provided by keeping the Mitzvah of Mezuza, the requirement is simply for a KOSHER mezuza. The problem is that by lowering the standards and prices of these Mezuza’s to such an extent, their very status becomes questionable. (Of course, besides just being Kosher, there are also a great many Hiddurim that can be added. These, however,… Read more »

    Well said #44
    Guest
    Well said #44

    & Thank you #59for clarifying May we be zoche to Sholom al yisrael

    Issue is also by mehudar mezuzas
    Guest
    Issue is also by mehudar mezuzas

    I had a serious issue going on in my life and after some time decided to check my mezuza’s. The sofer corrected some things and the issue was resolved shortly after.
    And i didn’t buy cheap mezuza’s..

    Why is this whole thing even debatable?
    Sofrim, people’s lives are in your hands literaly and we are all trusting you. Please do this right!!

    To #48
    Guest
    To #48

    I agree with your points except the final comment: “We aren’t Conservative that cut corners and rely on lenient opinions to allow using a microphone on shabbos (there are such opinions!!) or driving to shul on shabbos… even for “mivtzoyim”!” Actually, many Chabad Houses actually DO invite people to drive to shul on shabbos (relying on a lenient opinion) because it is “good for business”. This was the “heter” of Conservative “rabbis” for encouraging members to “just come to shul” even if it means you will be driving. Kol yisroel chaveirim – we learn from each other! It is ironic… Read more »

    Offended by #63
    Guest
    Offended by #63

    Look, I don’t care about your position on mezuzas. I also agree with some points of #48 and even #51.

    By you, my friend, are attacking Chabad Houses, and someone that attacks shluchim raises a question about his own lineage (possibly from Amelaik).

    What you wrote is offensive.

    No no no
    Guest
    No no no

    I want to see them all rechecked by a third party. I will bet at least 75% of the mezzuzot that were called passul are passul. Massive egg on the faces of these people selling this stuff and not one apology yet. I will never shop in these stores for they have caused damage to people and you all just do not get it. Mezzuzot provide a shmirah and you wonder why Crown Heights has had 17 muggings in two months.

    Reply to #64
    Guest
    Reply to #64

    If the shoe fits…

    I think the truth hurts.

    I get it that shluchim need to do whatever it takes to get people to attend, but on if it is against the will of the meshalaiach that wants halacha kept!

    Ask yourself, are you doing this for shlichus or for your own business?!

    Chilul Hashem
    Guest
    Chilul Hashem

    Want to know what is a chilul Hashem? When a Chabad House parking lot fills up with cars on shabbos!

    Not only is the lot open on shabbos to facilitate members but members are “encouraged” to come even though they are beyond walking distance.

    That is a chilul Hashem!

    X