By COLlive reporter
News of the Kfar Chabad chassidic village in Israel trying to step up the modesty of its residents caught the attention of a religious women’s rights organization.
“This is unnecessarily extreme,” Riki Shapiro, legal advisor of Kolech, said about the Kfar’s decision to photograph women not dressed according to Chassidic standards.
On August 29, the Kfar’s Rabbi Mordechai Shmuel Ashkenazi told COLlive.com a female photographer will be photographing women in questionable clothing when they drop off their kids at school.
Some 242 comments were posted on COLlive’s original article, drawing mixed reactions.
The photos were not intended to be publicized, rather to allow members of the village’s education committee to invite the said women for a conversation.
“99% of the Kfar’s women dress according to the standards of tznius,” stated Bracha Tverdovitz, a member of the committee which mainly organizes local educational and social programs.
“The photos are only for a few cases where we will invite the woman and her husband to find out what leads her to dress this way and to check if we can help.”
Mrs. Shapiro, of the feminist Jewish Zionist group, told Israeli radio this week the decision has nothing to do with halacha.
“Chabad itself understands that (wearing) a wig and not just any head coverings is not (a must according to) halacha, but a social decision,” she said.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe encouraged all married Jewish women to wear only sheitels in contrast to other Chassidic groups who wear a sheitel and another covering over that.
“The general idea of wearing a sheitel and not sufficing with a hat or kerchief is explained in many places,” the Rebbe once wrote (Igros Kodesh, Vol. XIX, p. 428).
“We verily observe that wearing a hat or even a kerchief leaves part of the hair uncovered, at least for a short while, i.e., causing one to transgress a major prohibition, as explained in Shulchan Aruch , Orach Chayim ch. 75.”
READ MORE:
+ Beautiful Within: Wearing A Sheitel
As a woman struggling daily with Tznius, I think everyone does have this struggle on some level and i think a little friendly reminder could be a positive thing.
cheers to comment 25! seriously as much as all you old people wanna live in denial, WAKE UP!!! Times have changed!!! Its not the old “rebbes schuna” that u wish it still was in your fantasy dream. Its golus and a very dark time. Be happy that your kids are still keeping kosher or shabbos or even talking about god! Why are u all so hung up on short skirts open necks when there are molestors in big white beards in the whole “rebbes shchuna levush” out there and ur worried about her dress???????seriously you adults have your priorities completely… Read more »
be happy theyre at least keeping kashrus… and yes you CAN pick and choose…youre doing it right now by gossiping about them and you call yourself frum. Even in hilchos shabbos it says if you were oiver, or desecrated in anyway, even purposely, u can still continue to keep it for the rest of it… cuz each moment is significant in its own.. each mitzva someone does is his and no one can take it away..youre allowed to keep kosher and not dress according to halacha standards if you dont feel up to it. i bet you dont have the… Read more »
The people yelling the most are usually the ones with the biggest problems. if you are zealous about other people’s skirt lengths, I know right away which chapters in the shulchan aruch you are skipping.
for review in the heavenly courts. at this point the all information is available and accessible as to what the right thing is and how to do it with a healthy happy mind and heart. it is simply a sad shortcoming on anyone who feels otherwise – they have poor godly spark lost in exile that they do not, may the merciful one help us, feel or sense. women and men be strong! we are in the final moments of this bad gouls dream
doing this will only make the non tznius women disgusted at your behavior and b totally not tzinus at all. A tznius police in front of bees rivka not allowing non-tznius mothers to come in, ok thats rational. but having a lady TAKING PICTURES of people who aren’t tznius? besides for that being irrational, that downright RUDE. you don’t do that in the human race… seriously dudes show ur humanity
apparently this man seems to have no idea what women are about as well as some of the other men that commented. this job is a ladies job not a man!!! and i know that his wife will be looking at the photos but i think this was his idea and maybe the worst.
Just a little advice. As a teenage girl myself, i would NOT want pictures of my self going online for everyone to see. So what? The rabbis will go identify me then what? Give us a talk about tznius? Pp. U think it will help?
Actually, we can pick and choose which mitzvos we want to keep and still consider aourselves frum. Hashem wants Jews to be close to Him and keep His Torah to the best of our individual ability (no matter how easy someone else thinks a particular mitzvah is). Don’t blame me for being untznius just because you think I am FFB. I also have a yetzer hara which Hashem gave me. Some days I can overcome it, and I am consciouse of the battle- I am proud when I have the upper hand. I am a benoni. Even the Rebbe said… Read more »
You want to do what the Rebbe wanted, stop living in the ghettos of Kfar and CH and get out into the world and change it for the better.
IMHO curses and firebrands and pictures and shouting down at women will make matters much worse than they are already. What can be done is to hire a very good public relations firm to discuss with a few chassidishe women how to make tznius a classy thing to do. Introduce “halacha fashion” and pit it against “Paris fashion”. Tell people they have a choice to make . You can either follow halacha fashion designed by the shulchan aruch to respect and draw respect to a girl/woman or you can wear Paris fashion designed by a drunken goy who’s only intention… Read more »
Love it ! Kudos to Rabbi Ashkenazi for having courage in era of sissies.
#15 – If Da’as Moshe is your argument – then women should not wear hose. They should wear long skirts with sandals and bare toes and feet exposed.
#22 – Really? So if women are not 100% tznius they shouldn’t keep kosher?! You are ridiculous. And the Rebbe would not agree. We should all keep as many mitzvos as we are able and willing to observe.
Yes, in Lubavitch there’s a tznius issue. Yes, it’s a question as to what, if anything, can be done about it. But no terrorist tactics, dire predictions of divine retribution or moral equivilents please!!!!
If you’re fine with the way you dress, no problem. If not, fix it.
“we are jews who believe in torah” speak for yourself not everyone is like that therefore its none of your business how people dress, and what does yamuka and tzitzis have to do with tznius???
and IT IS LIVE AND LET LIVE!!!!!! because its not your business!!!!! and especially since i’m from the esteemed va’ad mishmeres hatznius so i know these things your just a joe shmo!!!!!!!!!
Rachmous on the boys? Are you delusional? The wicked evil women are what … hurting boys? torturing them? attracting their attention? causing their deaths? What?!?!?!?
Actually, now that I think about it, I have heard this before. When women don’t dress appropriately bad things happen and it’s never the men’s fault, it’s the terrible women. Hummm. Where have I heard this? Oh, I remember, on Al Jazeera!
i agree with number 30, THE GIRLS SHOULD PLEASE HAVE RACHMONUS (MERCY) ON THE BOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To #2 and to #9.
Let’s put our attention where it really belongs and work on ourselves to inspire and be inspired!
what your saying makes sense, however i have never heard such talk growing up!
i bet ya half the women who dress inappropreately are not aware of the info you shared, i personally know women who would never risk hurting their kids, and they surely dont doubt the Rebbe’s knowledge as 100% accurate & true.
someones gotta publicise the info, so people can make an informed decission.
#30 is 100% correct! it is not private or personal matter, how one dresses has a major impact! at least if you believe the Rebbe, the Rebbe states clearly that “mothers must be told of the Harm, they bringing to their children by violating tznius! Yes the Rebbe said that if mothers dont care about self dignity etc they should know that they should at least dress with dignity (Tzniusly) for the sake of not bringing harm to their kids! folks, this aint about modernity or freedom or darchei shalom… THIS IS ABOUT STOPPING THE CURSES (according to Torah) Yes… Read more »
I HATE TO ADMIT IT YOU ARE KIINDA RIGHT
there are 2 types of people thta live in CH – lubavitchers that do as the rebbe instructed and all the others that feel that 5772 is a free for all and no one to answer to – those are the bad apples and unfortunately those are the ones that smell and stand out more than the frum and chasidishe ones.
to # 1 – i read the article and was about to write the same thing. FINALLY someone is standing up for the future of lubavitch.
and to #2 – your right if it doesnt work it NOT because of the style of the approach but rather becaus eof people like you who act and comment is this manner.
Maybe it is you who likes seeing girls and women walking up and down kiongston avenue with skirts 2-3-4″ above their knees.
Do you honestly think you will have a POSITIVE result with such a NEGATIVE attitude?? This is not IRAN! This is not a Communist country. You cannot dictate how s/o dresses. When many Lubavitchers came to the US in the early 50’s they were certainly not Tzniusdik. Were not eating cholov Yisroel and many other things. No one was ever treated the way Kfar Chabad or these new Tznius groups are behaving. We obviously did not show our children how important is Tznius. They do not GET IT. We need to excite our children about Yiddishkeit like they do in… Read more »
I wonder if Moshe Rabeinu or Rabbi Levi Yitzchok of Barditchov would instruct to “hunt down” yidden and publish their “crimes”, and on the month of Elul of all times….. So sad.
When one chooses to live in Kfar, they sign an agreement that they will follow all the rules of the Kfar, including women wearing a sheitel. If they don’t want to, they should move out…
VERY WELL SAID, NUMBERS 7 AND 9!!!
TOTALLY AGREE!!
1) The way the Rebbeh would encourage tznius was to highlight all the blessings it attracts such as Nachas, Health, Parnasa etc 2) The Rebbeh also pointed to the Dangers one attracts to themselves their Marriage & Family by breaking the Laws of Jewish-Atire 3) The Rebbeh said it is indeed ok to remind women that they are bringing real harm upon their children shorterm & long-term! by violating tznius! Mussar was almost never employed by our Rebbeh! unless it was PIKUACH NEFESH MAMASH!! re: Shleimus Haaretz, Tznius & Mihu Yehudi… the Rebbeh was very Direct and Candid about the… Read more »
usual nonesense. This is american liberalism we are jews who believe in torah. No you can’t just do what you want. Neither can men – they also have to dress tznius, wear a yarmulke tzitzis etc. It is not “Live and let live” especially a rznius pollutes everyone morally. I am tired of reading comments like this
Maybe something in their milk,or something.-Benveniste
how about 6 inches or 10 in some cases
LET’S ALL WELCOME RABBI ASHKENAZI RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK, GIVE US CHIZUK AND TEACH OUR KIDS TO RESPECT THEIR HOME AND NEIGHBORHOOD JUST HERE IN CROWN HEIGHTS, WE NEED A RABBI ASHKENAZI IN CROWN HEIGHTS, IN OUR STREETS, PLEASE COME I WILL SPONSOR THE TICKET ON ELAL, WHAT A SHAME !!!
WEIRDO’S LETS ALL HAVE THE FREEDOM TO WEAR WHAT WE WANT. AND SAY L’CHAIM.
“we will invite the woman and her husband to find out what leads her to dress this way and to check if we can help” What if the people do not want to respond to the invitation?
It seems like it would be better to approach people individually and invite them to shiurim, mitzvoim, a night out, etc, than to invite them to an inquiry. After being acquainted with them a few times, maybe speak to them nicely about their yiras Shomoyim.
#3 hahahaha
to the bimbos I regularly see at the butcher store bemoaning the fact that they had no split chickens left that day – you care so much about kashrus? You are so frum?
Please – you were (under-)dressed enough to have marched in the sick parade on Labor day!
You can’t pick and chose which mitvos to keep. Either you are frum or you are fooling yourself.
And only a fool tries to fool herself.
After he cleans up Kfar Chabad, Rbbi A should come here.
And if you don’t like it, move!
The women wearing the short skirts, etc are married to the men who touch/shave their beards. Why not take pictures of all the men with trimmed beards and post them online??????
IN the goyishe world there is a concept of publicly shaming people who behave immorally. This is its equivalent for the standards of frum people. Also the argumenft that u can win more with honey etc. and forcing wont work, why dont u try that the next time the police wants to fine ypu or the judge hands down a punishment.
Alot of rules in Tznius are based on interpretation – it is not black and white. Picture taking will lead to another Salem – with women being ‘killed b’nefesh’ by judgment from others. IN the end, no one will be safe. And our Rebbe was a big proponent of postivity. How many CH-ers have invited someone to their house and become their friend without one word on their dress? A positive friendship with a role model is a derech arucha shehi Ketzara – That is how a Chabad House works. But the truth is, that is how chinuch works. A… Read more »
how could you be a member of the vaad mishmeres hatznius if thats your attitude?
According to whose standards? This is the USA and people can live anyplace they so desire. If YOU don’t like it go to Israel where we jews belong anyway and live in Mea Shearim or Kfar Chabad.
Who does Riki Shapiro think she is, that she feels qualified enough to argue Halacha against the decision of a Rov?
No body, no body has done proper scientific based research why have so many girls and women in CH left Orthodox Judaism by wearing skirts that do Not cover their knees when they sit, its Daas Moshe it was passed down from Moshe.
yes i strongly agree it went out of hand
ok,takeing pictures of people is NOT going to help,and teenagers and kids realy do not care if pictures off them dressed inapropriately are posted online.and no one is going to move because off it.
agree, agree, agree!!!! More tzniut….more frumkeit…..if you’re not doing something you shouldn’t be doing, why do you care if there are cameras?
if you dont like it, make your skirt 2 inches longer or roll down your sleeves. they dont want something irrational, they want basic frumkeit.
Last time i checked Crown Heights was part of the USA which means anyone can live wherever they like and not be judged for for it.
Publically embaressing people will just make the situation worse so instead of getting worked up over the young people maybe we should stop protecting the old people who are molesting our children
Im sorry, but I wish 99% of women in Kfar Chabad would be Tznius…It is completely untrue what you have stated.
crown heights is not the rebbe’s shchuna – not any more at least. we were once. a long long time ago.
the rabbonim dont act like they are in the rebbe’s shchuna
people dont vote their vaad hakohol like they are in the rebbe’s shchuna
heads of the mosdos worry for themselves and not the rebbe’s shchuna
and frankly, crown heights today is filled with people who are anything but chasidic and only live here because its convenient
there is a vaad hatznius in crown heights, they hope to have cameras on every corner in crown heights by next summer they will take pictures and post them online for all to see.
its undercover and is being done anonymous. this way they will not be hurt.
if you dont like it move out of ch this is the rebbes shchuna and everyone that lives there will act that way.
women should be able to dress how they want and express themselves in the way they dress.
who cares about these feminists. judaism treats women the way it does un ge’endikt.
post some pics so we know what were dealing with.
I understand Rabbi Ashkenazi’s frustration-many of us feel the same. But THIS WILL NEVER WORK>In fact it will backfire. One can only inspire yiras shomayim-not enforce it.but inspiring takes alot more effort and “hartz”
You go, Rabbi!! Don’t back down. Maybe Bais Rivka, OT, ULY etc will get some ideas.