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Friday, 15 Av, 5782
  |  August 12, 2022

Two Rabbis Debate Who Belongs in the Kitchen

Shliach Rabbi Yosef Chitrik bemoaned the involvement of Chassidim in the kitchen and food preferences. In response, author Rabbi Menachem Brod argues that even notable Mashpiim are involved in housework. Full Story

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Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 8, 2022 8:14 pm

How is this an important topic for mashpiim and chabad leaders to be discussing? Is this the biggest concern lubavitch has today? if so….Baruch HaShem that means moshiach must be here already. How about discussing ways to stop the drug epidemic in young lubavitch. How about discussing ways to create healthy happy marriages through educating our sons and daughters on what is actually important in relationships. How about ending the gezhe and non gezhe stupidity. How about getting shluchim to focus on their shlichus and bringing yidden closer to HaShem whether through their own mosdos or through partnering up with… Read more »

Rabbi S Hoffann
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 8, 2022 8:53 pm

what is ‘gezhe’/

Gezha
Reply to  Rabbi S Hoffann
June 8, 2022 11:36 pm

Gezha basically means good lineage especially within Chabad.

Gezh
Reply to  Rabbi S Hoffann
June 9, 2022 1:17 am

Gezh are lubavitchers who are descendents of Chasidim that were earlier Chassidim back in Russia. Chasidim who lived and breathed the words of the Rebbe’s of Lubavitch. Most of them lived by the Direction of Chassidus which the authors describe. Many sacrificed their lives for Jewish continuity by direction of the Rebbe’s.
As the generations and the world moves further away from these ideals, many Gezh family’s put great emphasis on marrying into each other, with hope that their future progeny will stay in the fold by remembering their predecessors.

My issue with Gezh
Reply to  Gezh
June 15, 2022 7:16 am

Some of them are extremely arrogant and think they are greater than the rest of the world. This sense of entitlement because your ancenstors are descendants of chasidim needs to stop. I have tried setting up some good shidduchim and the men who were gezh (were less than modern by the way, sometime I would catch them without kipa) would straight up tell the girl “we can never get married, my lineage is better than yours. I am gezh”. It’s ridiculous, and needs to stop.

How about
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 8, 2022 10:27 pm

Recognizing that people can think about big problems and still have room to think about the little problems…not everything has to be about you

Both
Reply to  How about
June 9, 2022 12:23 am

I’m all for focusing on both…but action has to be taken towards both.

Yes!!
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 8, 2022 11:42 pm

Took the words right out of my mouth. Let’s focus on important issues. Unfortunately Chabad has many….some of which you stated..

Which Odessa?
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 9, 2022 6:53 am

There is no “drug epidemic” in young Lubavitch, where did you get your statistics from?

There are many programs to teach what’s important in relationships, though if someone isn’t mature enough only life can mature him.

Gezhe lol, literally a thing in someone’s imagination. There isn’t anyone in real life who cares about it.

Most shluchim I know focus on their shlichus.

How about stop focusing on what we should be focusing on?

In short, the Aibershter’s vineyard is beautiful. Maybe, just maybe, the problem is in your way of looking at things.

Under a rock much?
Reply to  Which Odessa?
June 9, 2022 9:51 pm

You’ve obviously not in touch with the youth of today…

Many programs teach how to have healthy relationships…yehisvas and seminaries feel that they are exempt from engaging the student s in this curriculum.

There are many ways of acting on something without saying it. I think “gezhe” is one of them.

Most Shlichus focus on their Shlichus…mostly, I think the author brought a fair point though and a comment is not going to cover the whole topic.

There's a LOT of work to do
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 9, 2022 2:18 pm

You bring up some very important issues that need to be addressed. Fortunately, those issues are being addressed by many Rabbis and organizations. Clearly these Rabbis are not equipped to assist in the issues you presented. Instead, they cater to a demographic that is looking to improve their service to Hashem.

Should they neglect their audience just because there are other issues as well? Should firefighters stop putting out fires because crime is up?

Judith
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 9, 2022 4:29 pm

This is a very important topic because division of labor is often a trigger point for lack of Sholom bayis

You are not smart
Reply to  Nothing better to spend their time on?
June 9, 2022 5:51 pm

No one said you shouldn’t speak about other problems I believe it’s very sad that looking at the matzav of chassidim a hundred years ago and men now speaking about recipes and their taavos vechulu is problem that should be addressed also and what you wrote that we should focuse on what the rebbe told us to use for kedusha that is not in any way a contradiction to the article as speaking about your taavos is not exactly using for kedusha… I’m glad to see collive putting up articles related to issues that actually matter in the chassidishe lubavitch… Read more »

Why don't you just translate the entire article
June 8, 2022 8:18 pm

You missed out the story of the rov mopping the floors in his house!

The full article
June 8, 2022 8:19 pm
Where's the disagreement?
June 8, 2022 8:24 pm

Sounds like they are both saying the same thing

Thomas
June 8, 2022 9:06 pm

Any one have an idea, or a machshova akduma of a good recipe for Dinner. preferably one that is Memale the world, rather than one that circulates…..you know some thing that is metzamtzem through my system till after chassidus and Breakfast tomorrow. Shkoyach

That’s funny
Reply to  Thomas
June 9, 2022 3:25 am

I think you missed out on the fact that memale is only with whole-wheat bread maybe that’s why it’s only circulating. Nowadays nobody even know what’s memale they just eat a lotta shtusim

Bosi Legani
June 8, 2022 9:14 pm

The Alter Rebbe cooked! On Yom Kippur! Someone please give this man a reality check. My wife is a wonderful Aishes Chayil and does lots of things for our family and our shlichus and we cook together the Shabbos meal. And sometimes I make the lukshen for the kids and sometimes she does. It’s doesn’t say anywhere on the oven mitts it’s only for women so I’m pretty certain it’s not an issue of lo yilbash. You know what’s really not feh and past nisht? To tell your wife you can’t help in the kitchen because it’s not chassidish. It’s… Read more »

Tell us you didn’t read the article
Reply to  Bosi Legani
June 8, 2022 10:43 pm

without telling us that you didn’t read the article.

Loll
Reply to  Tell us you didn’t read the article
June 9, 2022 12:41 am

😂😂

Simple question
June 8, 2022 9:25 pm

What’s wrong with a man that likes to cook? Is he less of a chossid, less of a man because of that?

A man that likes to cook
Reply to  Simple question
June 9, 2022 12:04 am

He isn’t less of a chossid, he’s just less of a man. And if you’re less of a man, then you’re less of a chossid.

Sincerely,

Just Trolling

Iskafya
Reply to  Simple question
June 9, 2022 6:11 am

It’s one thing to cook to feed the family …it’s another to be all about making ice cream and other treats that aren’t healthy…that leads to people spending a lot of money in order to end up with obesity and other health conditions

What If.....
June 8, 2022 9:32 pm

What If A husband loves to cook… can he not utilize his talents…has she been indoctrinated in seminary that the kitchen is for the woman only?

Seminary
June 8, 2022 9:42 pm

Rabbi chitrik should offer the girls in his seminary culinary classes so that when they get married, their husbands don’t have to be so involved

culinary Seminary
Reply to  Seminary
June 8, 2022 11:58 pm

And just like that, a new seminary was born.

Is this satire?
June 8, 2022 9:48 pm

Seriously

Male chuvinist
June 8, 2022 9:52 pm

A true chissid is someone who doesn’t know how to make macaroni and cheese when his wife needs him to?
Boruch hashem he worked on himself and lives on the level Abya.
Most mortals live in asiya.

From a Husband
June 8, 2022 9:53 pm

If Father’s of the last generation would have been more hands on, life would have been a lot easier. If this is an attempt to bring back those unwanted days of old it’s no going to happen. Both parents are needed to raise a family.

I thought I knew 2 Russian words yachatchu merozeh
June 8, 2022 10:20 pm

I thought marozneh was in Russian Ah no one understands. If u cooking bec u want it a certain way and can’t wait to eat it and all passionate about it, yes spasst nisht. He’s just giving an example of chassidim of the past not bemoaning just this fact but as a general yeridas hadoros in all areas. Don’t forget these chassidim know chassidim and brought up by chassidim from last generation where iskafia was a way of life . today We r comf to announce our taavos to the waiter . whats wrong about sighing of how we going… Read more »

I thought I knew 2 Russian words yachatchu merozeh
June 8, 2022 10:24 pm

I must add if u cooking to help out and as a responsibility I’m sure hes ok with that it’s the passion and Taava tht comes along . I’m old fashioned so I totally get it.
There’s a difference

Do what needs to be done
June 8, 2022 10:25 pm

Each spouse must do what is necessary to keep the family functioning. Sometimes that means a husband needs to do the cooking etc..

Jewish kids are r”l marrying Goyim….
June 8, 2022 10:27 pm

…and the author concerned about morozhene?!?!

Have we completely lost our collective mind?!?!

Clearly
Reply to  Jewish kids are r”l marrying Goyim….
June 9, 2022 12:21 am

He’s obviously targeting a diff crowd. Not everyone needs the same medicine. Others learn also aleph bais and others learn maamorim others learn to walk others learn to drive

Hear the Rebbe out
Reply to  Jewish kids are r”l marrying Goyim….
June 13, 2022 2:06 am

You seem to have selective hearing. The same Rebbe who fought tirelessly against intermarriage spoke of his pain from bochurim sprinkling salt on their food (“shpritzen zaltz ahf di essen”).
Saving other Jews and working on one’s personal avodas Hashem come hand in hand.
The Rebbe’s sichos are full of this, and unfortunately your comment shows great ignorance.
Menachem Machsonai

next
June 8, 2022 10:31 pm

I’ll never get back those 4 minutes !!

To Mr. time carer
Reply to  next
June 9, 2022 12:08 am

And yet you took the time to comment…

seriously!!
Reply to  To Mr. time carer
June 9, 2022 12:00 pm

can’t believe you replied. oy

Hello
June 8, 2022 10:39 pm

It’s quite clear. If u doing it to help out no one is berating u. It’s the Koch others have on food thereby cooking according to his taste and style that needs avoida

Chassidim
June 8, 2022 11:58 pm

I don’t think that mashpiim read this discussion in col 😀

Actually
June 9, 2022 1:23 am

Actually, with all due respect to Rabbi Chitrik, should one leave the choice up to the waiter? What about being Dan l’kaf z’chut? That would show a true chossid. One is not telling the world his “ta’ava”. He’s responding to a question. Possibly it is unhealthy for him to consume the other choices being offered.

That’s funny
June 9, 2022 3:24 am

You know the feeling when you just moved a bottle of wine to one place and moved It right back to the fridge cuz you forgot that’s where it’s supposed to go = a useless action
This is the feeling after reading this article, just like water flowing the hands, nothing solid here
Gutte voch

Start realizing
June 9, 2022 3:24 am

We have to realize that women belong in the kitchen
don’t call me close minded I would call myself chassid minded

Wow
Reply to  Start realizing
June 9, 2022 1:40 pm

I truly hope this is a sarcastic comment. “Women belong in the kitchen”?

You sound like you're single
Reply to  Start realizing
June 9, 2022 2:42 pm

.

Start realizing
June 9, 2022 3:25 am

We have to realize that women belong in the kitchen and men don’t call me close minded I would call myself chossid minded

Iskafya
June 9, 2022 6:05 am

If you don’t know what that is then this discussion isn’t for you…this article isn’t about men vs women ‘s roles in the kitchen but rather the relationship between chasidim and food

Lifestyle choices
June 9, 2022 6:36 am

I eat ice cream once in a while. But others make it their lifestyle. They just have to get donuts on Friday right before a 3 day yom tov because it was “national donut day” they just have to always try the latest recipe or restaurant dish that everyone is talking about. They develop all kinds of health conditions as a result and some are tempted to try non cholov yisroel ice cream and donuts or even completely treif in order to see what the “real thing” is all about

Disagree
June 9, 2022 8:25 am

Husbands supposed to learn at night and the wife should take care of bigger part of the house.
Obviously there are exceptions .
That’s how it worked by yidden for generations before we got sadly influenced by society.
Everyone has their go-d given tafkid

So basically the argument is
June 9, 2022 6:42 pm

So basically the argument is that it’s not chassidish to be involved in food preparation because it’s following taavos so therefore women should be the main cooks? Is that implying that women aren’t chassidos themselves? I see no true Torah basis for this and I’m shocked that this is even an issue that needs to be brought up. This isn’t about frumkeit this is about maintaining unfair social norms. Additionally, if one is allowed to go to work to earn a parnassa and can mentally focus on Torah rather than a taava for money, surely one can cook dinner without… Read more »

This
Reply to  So basically the argument is
June 9, 2022 9:43 pm

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

RELAX
Reply to  So basically the argument is
June 10, 2022 11:36 am

I feel most of the commentators are not getting the point. Oh course he’ll agree men should be helpful whenever needed. I do t think tht was his point at all at all.
It’s when tbey want to do it with a koch and passion so that it’ll taste just right for themselves. Also this targets those shayach to it. So calm down folks!!!

👌👌👌👌👌
Reply to  RELAX
June 16, 2022 7:26 am

Exactly.

Totally missed the point.

And i really think that all those commenting do actually understand this very basic nekudah that Harav Chitrik was trying to get across,
just sometimes the nefesh habahamis wants to defend itself….

Helping out in the kitchen
June 9, 2022 7:31 pm

Maybe rabbi chitrik needs to learn some gemoro. The biggest tanaim of their generation helped out erev shabbos. The gemoro goes describes in detail what each tana did in order to prepare for shabbos. And they were definitely not baalei taavo in search of ice cream , or even a good steak.
I agree that you should find other problems to focus on, instead of berating helpful husbands.

Read his original article...
Reply to  Helping out in the kitchen
June 10, 2022 1:14 pm

Read the original article. Then post here how it conflicts with the gemoro or tanaim etc.

Have a great Shabbos

YLT
June 10, 2022 12:09 am

Everybody can agree that the true answer as to who belongs in the kitchen is WOMEN

OK!
Reply to  YLT
June 16, 2022 7:23 am

Thanks for sharing.

Concerned customer
June 10, 2022 12:12 am

I have a solution, have we thought of maids. The father won’t have to cook anything anymore, and the mother can focus on the kids win win. Or We have one mother for four families and she does all the work while the rest get to learn torah.

Just a thought

Shulem
June 12, 2022 1:03 am

R’ Avrum Mayor z”l would say that his shver R’ zalman Moshe z”l would give all his attention to the kitchen on Pesach. l’moshel put the pot down here, not there cholila. (Ch’shash ma shehu avodah zarah, R’ Avrohom explained)

A few basics up front
June 14, 2022 5:29 pm

Before we get to chassidush, a man has the mitzvah of learning Torah when at all possible while a women doesn’t. While the man needs to be sincere in his learning, so that his wife will properly value it, he also needs to get permission from his wife to learn while she does more of the housework since it is not appropriate to be frum on someone else’s account. After this one can argue about the workload balance (livelihood vs housework), natural tendencies & social norms.

people are so ignorant
June 17, 2022 9:49 pm

rabbi chitrick said nothing of his own rather what our rabeim have been trying to install in us its distressing to see the hate and misunderstanding of something so simple

what a false headline
June 17, 2022 9:58 pm

i dont see any argument rather a discussion on something so simple and clear throughout chasidus

so sad
June 17, 2022 10:08 pm

how do people miss such a simple point??!!! that chasidim shouldnt kuch in food is a chidush??!! if so open the books and dont call yourself chabad until then.(and no you cant represent chabad and be ignorant its kind of an oxymoron

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