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Monday, 21 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 24, 2019

    To the Camp’s Staff Member Reject

    From the COLlive inbox: A Head Counselor shares thoughts with fellow yeshiva classmates struggling with summer camp culture. Full Story

    The Rebbe Stood on a Milk Crate…

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    Reb Berel Neumark, 75, OBM

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    Time to shut it down.
    Guest
    Time to shut it down.

    Not sure where this article is going, but it’s time for Yeshivos, especially Beis Medrash, to cut out this insane 10 week vacation every year. The Rebbe was fiercely opposed to this.

    Summer camp should be staffed by older Bochurim whom have already completed Beis Medrash.

    Zal Bochurim belong in Yeshiva 12 months out of the year. End of story.

    great
    Guest
    great

    very true.
    People should not be upset if they are rejected they should know that everything is Hashgacha Pratis,
    and everything will work out for the good.

    To number 1
    Guest
    To number 1

    Bravo! I Agree and have been saying this for years!

    a bocher that's 18
    Guest
    a bocher that's 18

    I don’t know who you are but I feel you this head counselor is just straight up full of…. Most camps these days don’t care they are all in it for them self they are just trying to push you off don’t give up try other options you’ll find a place and to#1 its not easy to learn for a year straight

    to # 1
    Guest
    to # 1

    Burnout is a psychological term that refers to long-term exhaustion and diminished interest in work. Burnout has been assumed to result from chronic occupational stress (e.g., work overload).

    Still a bachur

    d l
    Guest
    d l

    Beautiful article. Truly beautiful. Thank you.

    Huh
    Guest
    Huh

    I don’t think you’re right, #1. Not every bochur is cut out to sit in yeshiva 12 months a year….or at all…
    And how will those older bochurim know that they ahve talents if they’ve never used them?
    The Rebbe wasn’t against being out of yeshiva, he was against wasting time. Vacation is vacation from the yeshiva’s seder, not from Torah.

    I can relate to "Yisrolik"
    Guest
    I can relate to "Yisrolik"

    I am now a bit beyond the zal bochur stage which the author is describing, but I went through similar experiences when I was in zal. Throughout mesivta and my first two years in zal, I always spent my summers in yeshivas kayitz, either as an independent entity from my yeshiva, or under the auspices of yeshiva, and looking back, it was time well spent, and I have many good memories from those days. But like the description above, after my second year of zal, I found myself, through no deliberate fault of my own, not having the connections or… Read more »

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    That was a great and very sensitive letter of a camp staffer. BH our camps do great work but our bochurim need to remember the true value of learning Torah!

    wohooo
    Guest
    wohooo

    Wow I’m really inpressed
    Yasher koach
    Bring a head counselor myself I totally agree.
    If ur not the ‘campy’ type n have a hard time getting urself hired due to that, know it’s cuz ur needed for something more real, something more then cheering and screaming w ur campers.
    Camps not everything and ur still the most imp and special person in the world.

    reply to 1
    Guest
    reply to 1

    Some Zal bochurim need the camp break. Those who don’t, should continue their learning, perhaps in a camp setting. That’s how it works in other Yeshivas.

    bRilliant!
    Guest
    bRilliant!

    So right, sensitive and perceptive of you! I was that Yisrolik Just in a girl. Never understood the wild cheering going on said to be “lubavitch chayus” when I was brought up on chassidishe eidelkeit…. somehow I managed in camp as a great counselor too, tried to use that funny concept of crazy camp exuberance to instill chassidishkeit in my campers even though much of the time i was going against my nature, putting on a show, otherwise you indeed have no place in camp atmosphere. I ended up marrying a “Yisrolik” too. … and it continues on shlichus too.… Read more »

    Here's an idea
    Guest
    Here's an idea

    I’ve been in your shoes where the camp I was “recruited” to did not want to accept my friend (who was a great bochur). I told them it was the 2 of us or none of us. The said none and we both went to a different camp. worked out EXTREMELY well for us. Had an amazing summer in an amazing program, while the program I turned down was a HUGE flop that summer. Want to make Yisrolik fell goo about himelf and boost his self esteem? Tell him he’s going wherever you’re going and keep to your word. Knowing… Read more »

    11 week vacation is insane
    Guest
    11 week vacation is insane

    Time to act.

    To #1
    Guest
    To #1

    Time to shut down camp? So who should be your sons counselor when he goes to camp? This is so typical, the same parant that wants yeshivas to go through the summer is the same ones who complains that their sons counselor is not chassidish enough. You can’t have it both ways.

    Losing 25%
    Guest
    Losing 25%

    Every Summer vacation we lose 25% of our bochurim. 25% don’t come back to Yeshiva.

    It’s time to drop this summer “vacation” from 1st grade to above.

    What exactly are you saying?
    Guest
    What exactly are you saying?

    I don’t think many people will really be able to deciphere what the actual point of this article is, however I’d like to mention a few things here based on what you have written (and seem to be trying to say) 1. Trying to make “yisrolik” feel good by telling him that he’s not built for camp and it’s going to hit him and ruin his self esteem isn’t quite going to be helping him either. 2. I’m not sure how you think you can address yisrolik when you are so out of touch with him and what he’s going… Read more »

    To #5
    Guest
    To #5

    Too much vacation can have that same burnout effect. Three weeks would be a sufficient vacation. Also, have you forgotten that Pesach vacation is three weeks? Have you forgotten that Sukkos vacation is three weeks? That’s six weeks right there. To #7 get your facts straight. The Rebbe was openly against Yeshivos closing for the summer. Surprisingly, no matter how much the Rebbe was opposed to it, we just never listened. Gan Yisrael was founded for kids that were not frum, not for our kids. Amazing how the new generation knows literally nothing! To #15 pay more attention to the… Read more »

    Greenstein
    Guest
    Greenstein

    Don’t take it too hard if you can’t get a position in a camp. We live in a political climate where any bochur who works in a camp is placing his neck on the chopping block; he can easily be wrongly accused of child abuse, even years later. If you don’t get accepted to work in a camp, it’s all for the best.

    A parent of a bochur
    Guest
    A parent of a bochur

    To the writer: beautiful article, very nice sentiment. But as a mother of exactly the bochur you describe, I have to say, I blame you! YOU and Others like you are the ones who continuously do not hire the “Yisrolik”s! You are the ones who overlook the the aidel, kind and intelligent bochurim in favor of the loud boisterous (not necessarily so chasidish) bochurim for the camp positions. If you really believe in what you wrote, then YOU and ONLY YOU can make the difference to a bochur being rejected who deserves to be valued for his amazing qualities. –… Read more »

    Big talker
    Guest
    Big talker

    To #1: Are you hanholo or a parent?
    To #16: Where do you get your “statistics”?

    A different perspective.
    Guest
    A different perspective.

    Years ago there was a famous saying from the then Camp Rabbi in Gan Israel Montreal who was truly a Chassidishe Yid and a Talmid Chochom and Yerei Shomayim. ” A summer in Gan Yisrael can accomplish more then a year in Tomchei Temmimim, and a color war can accomplish more then a summer in Gan Yisroel. A summer in a Gan Israel was living a Chassidic lifestyle full immersion with the outside world not existing at all. The chassidishe, stories, teaching and way of life picked up in Camp was extemly important in developing Chassidish Bochurim. There was an… Read more »

    #16
    Guest
    #16

    So four years into yeshiva there are no bochurim left AT ALL? if we bleed 25% each summer, that should mean an empty zal by year 4. I think that every summer we lose a couple of boys, but I am not sure that is due to summer break, or just the sad reality of the struggle some of our boys endure. Being a chassidish bochur is the single hardest ‘profession’ right now! I say kudos to any and every bochur who manages to see the beauty in yiddishkeit, even when it is being eclipsed by the narrishkeit of the… Read more »

    Rejected twice
    Guest
    Rejected twice

    Having gone to a good yeshiva and being a good student, i was still having a hard time to go to an over night camp not knowing the right people or not being friends with the right people. 1. The yeshiva i went to REQUIRED all Bochurim to go to an over night camp or yeshiva kayitz. 2. Being a Bochur of just 18,19 years old and being told there is no place for you at the last moment of just 2 or 3 weeks before camp doesn’t help. 3. Having peer pressure at the age of 18,19 to go… Read more »

    Other Options?
    Guest
    Other Options?

    What options are there for the quiet, aidel boy with yiras Shomayim, who is in zal and wants to be a staff member in camp like his friends?

    Camp is not for Lubavitch kids in Lubavitch schools
    Guest
    Camp is not for Lubavitch kids in Lubavitch schools

    If your kid is in a school for Lubavitch kids and NEEDS camp for his chassidishkeit you need to switch schools or communities. When the Rebbe talked about 24 hours a day in an environment of Torah he was referring to the original intent of CGI – non frum kids. Unfortunately we don’t get those kids, and camp has become a rehab for kids with uninspiring teachers. My kid is in a great Chabad school in Chicago and have sent them to camp and aside for the fun and games there’s no gain, because they get it all from home… Read more »

    Pedant
    Guest
    Pedant

    “So if you don’t quite fulfill camp’s requirements…”

    Wow, get over yourself.

    Point is that being head staff isn’t rocket science and though not everyone can do it, many more can than there are positions to field. So no, your head staff are not precious snowflakes, one of kind supermen who can ‘meet requirements’ and get the job done.

    When there are many more eligible applicants than there are positions, other differentiating characteristics need be considered, and though life isn’t fair, and “it’s just life” that didn’t work out for your perfectly, it isn’t about being qualified or not qualified.

    question to the author
    Guest
    question to the author

    being that camp is an integral part of the chinuch of our children, and as you write: “You [Yisrolik] are at the center of the world. All of existence since day one of creation awaits your arrival in Zal each day, for you to overturn the higher and lower worlds with each word of Gemara and Chassidus uttered from your lips. You are the pride and joy of Hashem’s chosen people, a people who cling dearly to Torah and Mitzvos through thick and thin.” Then why don’t you hire Yisrolik to be mechnech the children in what you clam to… Read more »

    To the camp staff member reject
    Guest
    To the camp staff member reject

    You sound like an arrogant adolescent. How about ‘to the Bochur who cannot find a spot in a camp’ or even ‘who gets rejected’ or even ‘whom the camps reject.’

    I understand that you identify with your status because, heh it works for you, but really it ain’t that big a deal. Learning toisfois is a big deal. Doing mitvzoim is a big deal, your resume is not a big deal.

    At #23
    Guest
    At #23

    Go learn math
    if about 25% of the bochurim in yeshiva leave means that if there’s 100 the first year there’s about 75 bochurim the next year about 56 (not 25% of the original number) the next year 42 the next year 31
    And now there’s still people in yeshiva

    on the money
    Guest
    on the money

    why dont they pay? the owners of the camps seem to live very well.

    Camp is very important
    Guest
    Camp is very important

    I agree with #22. My sons come back with from camp every year charged and ready to learn with more enthusiasm and dedication. They get periodic phone calls from there dedicated counselors before each yom tov and have kept in touch with them many years beyond camp. I thank the dedicated bochurim that work 24/7 during the summer to make a great camp experience. Also, I have one daughter that is not an “A” student. But during the summer its her chance to shine and inspire younger girls with great chayus as a camp counselor. We need to find a… Read more »

    ???
    Guest
    ???

    Since when does a “high flying cheepanzze” give advice to a bochur a shliach
    The problem with the young high flying is that just because so many lives were put in your hands you have no right to hurt them
    And at fault are the leadership who give such unbelievable power to “high flying cheepanzzes” sorry for my spelling of cheepanzzes I was never one

    Nice article
    Guest
    Nice article

    from reading the comments it sounds like most of you are the more quiet type which your greatest specialty is not “camp chayus”
    Just bc this is not your strength does not mean you have to diminish the importance of this great quality

    Learn to boost your self esteem by focusing on your great abilities instead of putting down others

    Same to the author, yisroliks outlook should be focusing on what he does best but calling the staff flying chimpanzees I just don’t get!!

    to all the holly camps
    Guest
    to all the holly camps

    Camp is a place where the owners of the camps have a great buisness for themselves and families. they would fight if the yeshivas were to stay open for 11 months a year, wherewould their parnossa come from? the bochurim are not such groiseh tzaddikim like all would like to think, very very far from it. and when a bochur is rejected by the very very chosheveh head counslor, it is only bc he doesnt have the correct proteczieh in life. Not that the bochur is no good. Maybe he is quiet , not such a chevraman vchulu, half the… Read more »

    To #26
    Guest
    To #26

    Which Yeshiva reads to its students every day the long letter from the Rayarz to his daughter, the memoirs, the Likutei Diburim, all other stories from Sichois.

    The problem is what camps may have become, not where a bochur belongs. Seeing the tfilah bavoidah of the director and head staff etc and farbaringing with such staff has a greater impact then a Yeshiva may have.

    Patronizing article
    Guest
    Patronizing article

    To #17 & #20 – absolutely agree. It’s always the same – the loud, ra-ra-ra bochurim AND girls are offered multiple positions in multiple camps. The rest are offered sweeper-upper or canteen or something where very little interaction with campers is part of the job description – if they are lucky. Future Head Counselor – you really are pompous. I often don’t agree with op-eds, but this is insulting & demoralizing to so many hopeful camp counselors. You may be a future star (& so full of yourself I can hear the smugness) but you are not someone I want… Read more »

    To The Author
    Guest
    To The Author

    BSD Although your message is definitely a valid one; that Bochurim should be able to have the option of staying in Yeshiva for the summer if they so wish, and that even the Bochurim who go to do Shlichus’n should at least know that sitting and learning through the summer is a beautiful thing, HOWEVER, I couldn’t help but smell a different message, at least in-between-the-lines of what you wrote: you wax poetic about the importance of learning, “You are at the center of the world. All of existence since day one of creation awaits your arrival in Zal each… Read more »

    A bochur who doesnt get it
    Guest
    A bochur who doesnt get it

    Dear author, i have much trouble with your article in that your message is basically ” chasidishe/ learning bochurim shouldnt bother applying to camp while you yourself have been in camps for years and seem to enjoy it. The chasidish ones who also want to be a part of these fun things should not only have a chance but give Hashem and his chosen nation much nachas thrue educating this wonderful nations children!

     Sounds Oxy-moronic to me
    Guest
    Sounds Oxy-moronic to me

    I think i would value this opinion more if he himself was learning in yeshiva and not climbing the ranks in camp.( im sure having a great time there as well) maybe he shouldnt be leaving the sacred job of learning to a few “special” individuals i guess learning is just meant for the elite

    To #18 (and #26)
    Guest
    To #18 (and #26)

    In terms of “Getting your facts straight” and “Amazing how the new generation knows literally nothing!” -With all due respect, I don’t know which generation you’re from, but listen to the “new generation”: I heard directly from a respected and well-known Chasid and Shliach (whose name I’m not writing only because I did not ask his permission) who were in Gan Yisrael New York AND Montreal for the first year of both camps, as well as for many following years, and I asked him specifically if there were other Frum Lubavitch boys there (because I knew of this discussion) and… Read more »

    #29    RIGHT ON!!!!
    Guest
    #29 RIGHT ON!!!!

    Its all about connections…..

    #26
    Guest
    #26

    As a follow up to my post. I am not advocating no camp at all, 2-3 weeks is plenty to see a chasdidishe bochur davening (if they will, many won’t).
    Somehow Lubavitch kids in Israel, Europe and the UK come out just fine, as do the kids in Chicago that have school for 11 months.

    ???
    Guest
    ???

    Some good points but extremeley condescending…what makes u better then yisrolik maybe if you value torah so much you shouldn’t be a “four time staff, prophesized to be head staf…” Whoever u are… Its nice what you’re saying but get a hold of yourself.
    Also maybe encourage the “recruits” to take bring yisrolik with them…

    To #26
    Guest
    To #26

    I live in Israel. Kids have 10 weeks vacation in the summer & there is even less to do than in US.

    Talking about Yisroliks...
    Guest
    Talking about Yisroliks...

    True story. There is a frum family with three sons. The first two sons did well in yeshivas and camps, got married, have jobs, have kids and generally live a frum lifestyle. The youngest son was a “Yisrolik”. This family’s “Yisrolik” decided to abandon the entire frum system so his family would not be inconvenienced or embarrassed by his self-perceived failures. He was constantly told that he wasn’t “frum” or “chasiddish” enough, and seemingly that is the only lesson he internalized. This story is about my family. Not all stories have nice endings. When yeshivas and communities in general cannot… Read more »

    #29
    Guest
    #29

    I like the discussion here.

    What I read here....
    Guest
    What I read here....

    ….is what has bothered me in some other areas of the Chabad hierarchies: The elite become the unspoken “law” makers, and the others , well they just get pushed out or not included. And then we wonder why there are so many who make less than moral or ideal action in certain areas in their lives!? I think a spiritually oriented community should maintain a spiritually oriented set of behaviors, including who gets to go to camp! Unless, of course, those leading the camp wish to be honest and put the reality out there: ” We are Chabad, but only… Read more »

    A  former counselor
    Guest
    A former counselor

    This is the typical head counselor who is trying to save his back and justify his actions he does not sincerely care about yisrolik
    His one and only goal is his fame and glory

    Do you know of any job openings?
    Guest
    Do you know of any job openings?

    My brother is a good smart chassidish boy who loves spending time with children. He wants to be a camp counselor, but the camps claim they don’t have any openings ( aka he is not connected enough) . Do you know of any openings for this summer in a Lubavitch boy’s overnight camp?

    to all the bashers
    Guest
    to all the bashers

    relax not every article anyone writes has to be critcized in every way shape or form. stop always trying to bring out the worst possible connotations the author probabely didnt mean stop deciding that the author must be a bad person for a, b, and c most articles are written with an intended good message. thats all there is something you can learn from it, or personally disagree without all the resentment its really really ridiculous how anything anyone writes- which is usually an innocent positive attempt to make a good change of some sort is immediately under attack. please.… Read more »

    I don't get the arguments
    Guest
    I don't get the arguments

    In order to get a job, you must have the right qualifications for it. For the position of counselor you need someone good with kids, chassidish, responsible, fun (yes FUN!), vechulei. If you don’t fit certain criteria then you’re usually better off at something else. It doesn’t mean you’re good or bad, better or worse, it just means that that position might not be the right one for you while a different position is. Camps don’t take counselors in order to make the bochurim feel good about themselves. They just take people that will do the job required of them… Read more »

    Best line..
    Guest
    Best line..

    “He grew up on Shlichus and arrived at Mesivta just a little bit behind academically”

    Nice to see you have it all figured out.

    This line runs a close second: as a successful fourth year camp staffer whose friends have long prophesied a future as a head staff”

    Listen Rabbi, your a nice guy but when you realize why these lines are funny you will the be even nicer…

    Just another mother
    Guest
    Just another mother

    # 20 could have been me. I too have a wonderful son who wasn’t accepted. Although he’s a serious bocher in Zal he has many talents that no one gets to see because he’s either not loud enough or doesn’t have enough connections. I know one day I “yh his turn will come to shine, but until then my heart aches for him.

    a glimpse of the future
    Guest
    a glimpse of the future

    The should be a wake up call for all parents of “Yisroeliks”. Yeshiva, at its best, teaches its bochurim raw analytical skills and hopefully some character refinement. In the real world, success requires siyata dishmaya and much work to build out ones skill set. Encourage your sons to go out of their comfort zone and build the skill set they may need to become a counselor, head counsler, shliach, milamed, doctor, lawyer or entrepreneur. There are many different opportunities within a bochur life to encourage some of the softer skills (leading the class mitzvah tank, lag boamer float, or soft… Read more »

    to #52
    Guest
    to #52

    Yes, but sometimes the truth hurts. It’s hard to
    accept. You’re right, that dif. people are good at dif. things, and not all people fit the “camp criteria”, but nobody likes to be rejected. I know first hand. Not with camp per se, but still.

    to 50
    Guest
    to 50

    i heard toronto is looking for very good staff

    to # 16
    Guest
    to # 16

    I believe it’s 76%. Where did you make up that number from? What newspaper are you reading?

    I agree with # 38!!
    Guest
    I agree with # 38!!

    Kudos to you for “reading between the lines”! Elitism has taken center stage and sadly has replaced authenticity. Why wait for “one day when the light of truth will shine”? Why not learn and live Perek lamed Beis in tanya? Perhaps internalize your wealth of knowledge and BE the chossid you think you are! As we approach lag B’omer perhaps it is an opportune time to look in the mirror and see how much of Rabbi Akiva’s message you have incorporated in to your character. Hashem did not make a perfect society. We are a blend of different souls struggling… Read more »

    To #51
    Guest
    To #51

    If you had a son in a position as one of these Yisroliks – WHICH UNFORTUNATELY ARE VERY MANY – you would understand all the bashers.
    And let me take that a step further, if you had a son you were sending to a camp this summer, you would probably worry if this is his head counselor…

    to #52
    Guest
    to #52

    you are 100% correct – if we were talking about a regular business or organization running in a normal way. but unfortunately the way these things work when it comes to camps getting their staff, there are MANY good, regular Bochurim, who get pushed to the side-lines because they are not loud enough\ don’t have the right connections. I’m speaking from experience; and not a bitter experience of my own (BH) but of what I saw happening to many of my classmates. So no, we’re not talking about camp accepting Bochurim just to make them feel good, we’re talking about… Read more »

    An older bochur
    Guest
    An older bochur

    I don’t usually write comments, but this i couldn’t pass as everything about this article is extremely off base, first of all I B’H have been a counselor in a prestigious Lubavitch camps (Montreal, parksville), I don’t write this out of animosity or resentment, I write this for my friends who weren’t as fortunate. First off, this article comes off as insensitive, and unsympathetic, you describe yourself as a camp veteran staff member, now a head staff member, hence, never been through this yourself. Second, you’re recommendation is to “learn Torah”, if you mean by that stay in ch or… Read more »

    to 1#
    Guest
    to 1#

    i know this is a little late but your idea of learning a whole year strait is coming from you either b/c your not a bochur (obviously) or b/c you dont have a son bochur age
    im sure when you were a bochur you were pretty happy with the system

    replies
    Guest
    replies

    to 23 – you go man! your comment is one of the best\smartest here. to 25 think of how you are describing this bochur. now think of why he may want to be a staff member in an overnight camp. it may shed some light

    WHAT. IN. THE. WORLD.?
    Guest
    WHAT. IN. THE. WORLD.?

    IM JUST A LITTLE..ER.. VERY CONFUSED. WHO ARE THESE BOCHURIM CALLING THEMSELVES THESE THINGS AND TITLES? NOT THAT THEY DONT EXIST. EVERY BOCHUR IS LITTERALLY A STAR.(THATS NOT JUST NOT JUST A FANCY LINE!! ITS FOR REAL!!) BUT ONE THING I CAN SAY I KNOW ABOUT BEING WHAT WE ARE CALLING CHASSIDISH IS A BASIC BELIEF IN HASGOCHA PROTIS. SO SERIOUSLY COME ON. THIS IS VERY CHILDISH. “CUT THE HEART ACHE” AND KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING AND OF COURSE GROWING. KEEP LEARNING AND KEEP GOING ON MIVTZOIM KEEP TEACHING THE WORLD WHAT YOU SUPPOSEDLY ALREADY KNOW AND WHAT YOU… Read more »

    ALOT OF GOOD POINTS BROUGHT UP HERE.
    Guest
    ALOT OF GOOD POINTS BROUGHT UP HERE.

    can maybe collive or someone make a compilation of all these comments and opinions making it straight what is right wrong and will be fixed and how. also if you yisrolik or anyone who feels that he is like a yisrolik just saying that it may be a good idea to speak to some of the rabbis behind baal teshuva yeshivos and go there for the summer. i really think that could be a real fix to this “problem’ and the baalei teshuva will gain tremendously from you and you will gain even more from them. really yisrolik. think about… Read more »

    we do it to ourselves
    Guest
    we do it to ourselves

    When looking for shidduchim who do people all line up asking for? Why are self promoting videos of head staff announced or follow up reunions of head staff being wined and dined? It creates a herd mentality of these are the best bochurim. They definitely are quality guys but it’s not eidel to prop them up as celebrities for all to idolize. Having said that it is upsetting to hear disparaging remarks about good bochurim who like my son are chassidishe good learners all year andwho work so hard all summer using their talents to have hashpoh on our kinderlach.Believe… Read more »

    To #67
    Guest
    To #67

    Your comment was well taken until you write “believe me, the camps work very hard vetting staff who have BOTH Chayus and serve as role models” – did you not read the above mentioned article?! Sadly there are more bochurim who truly believe this way of thinking then there should be and sadly when it comes to shidduchim these are the boys whom are sought after.

    Camp is wonderfull
    Guest
    Camp is wonderfull

    the rebbe said that camp is a kvadale where we make chassidim, camp is a wonderfull place, and whoever talks against camps, it is from ingorance ( i have no. 1 in mind)/
    about staff that dont get accepted, i sympethise with them, but that dosent take away from camp and its maaleh!.

    – A bochur who is being a counsler iy”h

    Losing 25%
    Guest
    Losing 25%

    To #30

    Because every year there are new students coming to Zal from lower grades.

    The numbers are not going up, if there not going up, there going down. In a business and in everything else, if there is no gain, there is a lose. If your not adding, your losing.

    to every one
    Guest
    to every one

    to blame dropping out of the yeshivah system on camp is absurd any bucher that does had problems before camp.not going to learn in a yeshivah or going to camp is the worst, if there is no learning or its just to get money then u can say its bad to go to camp.

    Chaim
    Guest
    Chaim

    To Number #63

    I didn’t write comments #1, but I agree with him 100%.

    I was a Bochur myself and I am now a father. Discovered when my first son was in first grade that summer vacation is not good for our education.

    Only once I realized this, it was brought to my attention to what the Rebbe himself said about Yeshivas and Chiddurim closing for the summer.

    to #64
    Guest
    to #64

    הוי דן את כל אדם לכף זכות

    Working Hard
    Guest
    Working Hard

    I’m a father and Husband, I (like millions of others) work 12 months a year (no summer vacation). I get Shabbos and Yom Tov off work, which is plenty.

    I don’t understand how a [young] person whose only job is to study Torah (to absorb more knowledge) , can complain that they need a break [?] Please someone explain this to me? A break from what exactly?

    switch it up
    Guest
    switch it up

    maybe we should have the chayisdike guys who need a little extra learnig stay thrue the summer. and the chasidishe ones being the role models. oh and thank you author for basically rubbing it in to all those less prophesied worthy individuals

    #48  100% Right
    Guest
    #48 100% Right

    Your comment should be read by the relevant people.

    To 69
    Guest
    To 69

    Well said

    Bachur
    Guest
    Bachur

    I’m a bachur in zal, and it is very hurtful not to be accepted!!! And u mister head counselor CAN accept us!!! So don’t just sit and sympathize!!!

    Zal
    Guest
    Zal

    I think we should boycott signing up to camps
    The head counsellors should be the ones looking for staff
    And begging them to come
    After all it’s a full summer of hard work for free

    applies as well
    Guest
    applies as well

    Summer Merkos Shlichus, Pesach shlichus, etc. Too much bochur time is spent ‘lining up plans’ from Purim until Tishrei.

    Just saying
    Guest
    Just saying

    Hey bochurim! Don’t let the opinion of the head counselor define you as a good or bad person! mainly because when a head counselor gets 40 applications for 20 job openings he does some “research” and based on the information he got from refrences or other sources he will try to make the best decision in HIS opinion. Your self worth shoulden’t be based on that!! He’s a bochur LIKE YOU. trying to do the best he can do LIKE YOU. because he heard about the importance of giving/being mechanech kids LIKE YOU. And just LIKE YOU sometimes He makes… Read more »

    to #30
    Guest
    to #30

    Good point. Only thing is, i still DO NOT SEE yeshiva going from 100 boys down to 75 in one year. then dropping to 56. really exaggerated. THAT is the point, regardless…

    Another POV
    Guest
    Another POV

    I grew up in a non-frum family but went to a lubavitch run camp as a child… both day camps and overnight. I was probably the only girl in my bunk who came without a chitas to the overnight camp and, for that matter, who felt like Friday night after dinner was a great time to write a postcard home using my flashlight for light. I was 8 and didn’t know any better. My counselor, with as much tact as a quiet teenage girl who probably had no idea how to handle explaining Shabbos to an 8 year old, took… Read more »

    To #83
    Guest
    To #83

    Your experience in camp is comparable to an obese individual joining a weight loss camp. It works wonders.

    However, a frum child joining a camp is like an anorexic individual joining a weight loss camp.

    You see, for you, Jewish summer camp was a life saver. For a kid coming from a frum household, it’s destructive.

    I don’t know about the girls summer camps, but the boys summer camps were founded specifically for children who were not frum, such as yourself.

    good boys keep sitting and learning
    Guest
    good boys keep sitting and learning

    ppl the rebbe wants on shlichus u will end up in a camp or doing something else the rebbe wants.

    To #84
    Guest
    To #84

    My point is that irrelevant of who the campers are, a good counselor/teacher/rebbi etc will do more for any child than one who has the right connections and the “correct energy level”. Believe me. I have had both and seen the results.

    And I can guarantee that had I not had a great counselor that summer, I would not have come back to Chabad as an adult… or would have much more reluctantly.

    life
    Guest
    life

    The problem being addressed here is not only in the Jewish community but in the world at large. The entire world has experienced a huge change (starting in the early nineteen hundreds) in the worlds ideals for the road to true happiness and success. In the eiteen hundreds we had something called a character ideal where the the successful desired image was one of a calm demeanor with attributes such as honesty integrity fortitude where as now we have a what is called a personality ideal where the desired attributes are charisma charm socialy winning these are good and important… Read more »

    $$$
    Guest
    $$$

    why can’t camps pay staff for what they do?

    Like running a business...
    Guest
    Like running a business...

    I think most people are missing the point. To preface this: the writer of the article was very smug and while he attempted to raise a valid point, I think did more damage than good. Having said that: 1) Being a Head Councilor is a job like any other. There is a huge responsibility to ensure that the 300+ kids that you will have under your watch, whose parents spent a pretty penny to send them to camp, all have a good time. That means that they have to choose the best candidates to get that job done. 2) Like… Read more »

    camp
    Guest
    camp

    in a lot of camps the staff are treated like garbage. they are underpaid and work really hard

    X