ב"ה
Wednesday, 17 Adar II, 5784
  |  March 27, 2024

The Stringent Angry Father

From the COLlive inbox: This past Friday night, I was standing outside 770, and I saw a most outrageous thing unfold before my disbelieving eyes. Full Story

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U. Bubby
November 3, 2012 11:26 pm

European parents used a pach to discipline kids. They also treated tnem with love . It balanced out. I remember getting a big beating when i and brother destroyed my mother’slukshin that was 4 hours work. How? Bychasing around and tipping the table. Every time we misbehaved she’d remind us and warned us to calm down””remember that beating!”.

to #3
November 3, 2012 10:18 pm

Lubavitch, Yeshivish, Chassidic, Reform, what’s the difference? Yidden and mentchen is what matters.

to #21
November 2, 2012 10:15 am

just stam, in a sicha in chelek yud zayin (i think), the rebbe explains how since the son is the hechsher mitzva of chinuch for the father, it becomes a chiyuv on the son as well

#1 is RIGHT
November 1, 2012 12:25 pm

#1 said it all…

How DARE he hit his child!!!
October 31, 2012 7:18 am

The father needs to be locked up!

A M
October 30, 2012 10:01 pm

Why don’t you crown heitzers get jobs and worry about your own lives for once. If you’d really care you’d have said something then and there but you didn’t. Now you want to start a whole debate and offer parenting advice? Mind your own business

ASSUMING THAT COMMENT #98 WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY THE PERSON WHO HURT THE CHILD
October 30, 2012 7:37 pm

“It was me
Everybody knows how to raise my kid. That’s comforting. Can you please also pay his tuition?” CORRECTION: EVERYBODY, INCLUDING A 12-YEAR OLD, KNOWS HOW NOT TO RAISE YOUR KID. THAT SHOULD BE DISCOMFORTING, SHOULDN’T IT? AND YES, I WOULD PAY 10% OF HIS TUITION IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR HANDS AND UNKIND WORDS TO YOURSELF.
[email protected]

Dont judge
October 30, 2012 7:33 pm

Wow, Such over reactors. Get over it, and stop gossiping

Abusive Fathers Cause Hurricanes
October 30, 2012 7:11 pm

Does anyone think it is a coincidence that two days after this kid got hit and a oped had to be written about it, the worst hurricane since the rayatz came to the US hit kan tzivah.

Abusive fathers don’t only destry their own family’s but all of klal yisroel.

a great parenting book
October 30, 2012 3:17 pm

there’s a really great parenting book called “the natural child” parenting from the heart by Jan hunt
You can get on amazon…to help you understand your child from child’s perspective and treat them with more respect. She also has a website called naturalchild.org has great articles on – worth reading.
Another really good book is playful parenting by lawrence cohen…

to#7, 8, & 13
October 30, 2012 1:58 pm

Number 7 & 8 you are right on target. and 13 you are DEAD WRONG! an ogre like that should be publicized so that anyone and everyone can keep their eyes open should they see this animal again mistreating his child to actually SPEAK UP and possibly warn him that he will be reported to child welfare if he keeps this up. I know someone who grew up with a father like that and althought they actually did remain frum, they were non the less emotionally scard for life. this created damage in the marriage and general disposition of this… Read more »

Why does a child have to be called a shagaitz
October 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Bad enough that the father hit the child but to call a six year old a shagaitz, poor boy he was hit phisically and verbally, may be the man should write and tell us his side of the story why he reacted the way he did and say sorry to his child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! May be his father did the same to him?

Control Temper
October 30, 2012 11:33 am

The father should control his temper and have a time out for himself before getting a hold of his son; he’ll hate him for the rest of his life!

NEVER
October 30, 2012 11:17 am

There is an article titled NEVER, written by Rabbi Binyomin Ginsberg. I wish people would read it and follow it. It is a crime for such behavior and I hope that this father (and son) get the help they so desperately need.

disconnect
October 30, 2012 10:38 am

This is a child who, at that moment, probably lost interest in Yiddishkeit. It will take many years however to show outwardly. Then the parents will wonder what went wrong.

preparation.
October 30, 2012 8:22 am

It was chinuch. He was preparing him for some of the teachers in our boys’ schools and mesiftas.

#2 WHERE WERE U BROUGHT UP!?
October 30, 2012 8:11 am

Just sickening to read your comment!

#68
October 29, 2012 11:58 pm

Whats wrong with you!!!
Did you think before you put that comment up?!

cannot believe...
October 29, 2012 11:24 pm

#102…so basically you are saying that if people slapped theiir children more, Moshiach will come? I thought I heard it all, but that definitely has to be the dumbest thing ever. Oh, and not daavening nicely in 770 merits a SLAP? I’ll tell you something, if I slapped my boys for not daavening, I would be lucky if they ever daavened when they became teenagers. I question the future of Crown Heights if people are going to think that ‘talking the talk’ is going to be the end all….that will not work anymore. Forget the Chassidishkeit…I know, throw me out… Read more »

Let's
October 29, 2012 11:00 pm

. Let’s open up this topic to the larger community. Let’s involve respected leaders of the community. I assume they would get involved, since they are invested in the future of Lubavitch. And I am assuming they are invested in a healthy and righteous future of the same. There can be schliach all over the world, but if we do not attend to the quality of our behavior with our own children, what is it all for? It all goes down the tubes, because our future IS our children! And I for one am not interested in a future with… Read more »

what the heck
October 29, 2012 10:00 pm

who cares if he warned him or not even 100 times doesnt matter u dont hit son this is what goes thru his head,”i just got slapped for doing something against torah so why do it if it just got me in trouble he must have been a real “chasideshe” guy

Thank you for raising awareness
October 29, 2012 8:56 pm

The first time I heard about physical abuse in our community was when finishing high school, a classmate confided in me that her father (a shliach btw) and mother repeatedly beat her since she was young. She always felt too scared to tell anyone, and felt very alone. It bears discussing, and as community members, I do think that we should be looking out for each other, from a perspective of helping…especially when its innocent kids at risk.

For #68 and 98-
October 29, 2012 8:03 pm

You are very misguided. Ask a true Chossid. You have real problems. Ask a true Chossid. Your behavior is cruel, mean, unloving, irresponsible, and more. You can stick with your so-called beliefs all you want. I, however, don’t even think they qualify as beliefs. Rather, they qualify as pathetic actions of people who do not know how horrible and far reaching that kind of abuse (yes, abuse) is. Again, ask a true Chossid. Or if you can get very real and honest with your neshama, ask your own self. Are you so far gone that your own real neshama can… Read more »

Some advice for the parent
October 29, 2012 7:52 pm

I think there are some wonderful advice on here like to mother and person that saw it like following to the house #81. Yes therapy is good too as suggested – but therapy may not always be effective it’s good while being there – because the person has accountability but when it ends – it doesn’t always last. A person who acts like this most probably needs to heal from their past – may likely need medication with therapy to make different associations to one’s present and past. It’s very painful to witness this. If the person that did it… Read more »

The mother
October 29, 2012 7:05 pm

Somewhere in this tragic scenario, there (presumably) is a mother. . . . if , by some miracle, she has read all that has been written about the poor child, and recognises, beyond a doubt, that this is her husband that is being spoken about here, then all I say is PLEASE PLEASE , as a mother , if you are aware of how this man is treating your child, then GET UP and do something about it NOW, beforw its too late; talk to people, get help, do SOMETHING . . . . look how many people are out… Read more »

To #2 & #55
October 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Omg that is sick So what is the point of being BT if people look at you like that with such stereotypes, i would ask at this point. Im A doughter of a BT and you know what? Im absolutely proud of it and not only, were a normal, warm, lubavitcher family, and our situation is much better that other FFBs families. But guess what, thats not even the point because were all jews and seriously like who cares when did u start to be frum. As long as we love each other as one big family. Because ahavas isroel… Read more »

Jk Rav
October 29, 2012 6:27 pm

The rebbeim said a chassid doesn’t hit. Also the hit is torah issur and carrying in Carmelis and drabanan and this was shogeg and kids are exempt in Mitzvos so the father is an am haaretZ and Rasha. I saw a
Father hit his kid in shul or running around but kids belong in parks not Shuls.

to #31
October 29, 2012 6:23 pm

Not always a patch means ‘abusive’. I was raised with patches (normal ones, more like symbolic) and im normal and never thought anyone was making something wrong because i knew it was done with love. Maybe at the age of 7 i didnt really realise but now i know that it was for my own good. But i agree that it NEVER should be done in public and for such a stupid thing (not that carrying on shabbos is stupid but i mean come on hes just 5 theres also a way to explain it with words instead of using… Read more »

and to summ all this up
October 29, 2012 6:18 pm

our community needs education how to educate.
we are the best but may be…it is time to start learning
and not just teaching everyone else.

to number 87
October 29, 2012 5:49 pm

what is the point of saying your a therapist if you don’t give any contact details you wasting time and space this is a case of agmas nefesh not something to joke about

PRESUMTIOUS?? MOI?
October 29, 2012 5:42 pm

# people spell gezha phonetically as gezher, the Z and H said together. In any event, what a load of waffle. It was a response to a very clear statement to the moron in #2 who clearly sees himself head and shoulders about “BT”. If he wasn’t why not assume the brainless father as being a gezher father.
THAT’S THE POINT

am i the only one?
October 29, 2012 5:32 pm

What bothers me more than the smack is the fact that the father called his son a “shaigetz”. for real?? is that what you want him to become?!?! even if the father decided its not a mistake because he warned him etc. Its absolutely unacceptable! Its sad and as many others said – if this is what he gets in public i cringe thinking about what its like at home! as for the subject of hitting, its a very controversial topic. Claiming the Rebbaim hit doesnt give anyone any right. The Rabbaim didnt hit out of anger, but rather Chinuch.… Read more »

It's not always what it seems to be...
October 29, 2012 5:03 pm

It’s interesting that this morning I was learning Hemchech Ayin Beis chap. 224 in Parshas Vayeira, where he analyzes the difference between: a) the father who has to use the “levush” of gevura to conceal and contract the hashpa-ah he conveys to his son, so that his son may be able to receive it—in which case the gevura is not true gevura, merely a conduit through which the fatherly love flows, b) the father who gets really angry at his son who either “falls down or soils himself”, in which case it is “gevura mamash”, however the cause of the… Read more »

to number 88
October 29, 2012 4:46 pm

YOU ARE AMAZING THANK YOU

Change agent needed
October 29, 2012 3:30 pm

So this father is notorious for swearing in shul? And he behaves in other less than appropriate ways there? And no one says anything? How come? And he has been seen treating his son violently at other times? No one says anything? Is this common in Cabad circles? How come? Really, how come? Clearly the father has serious problems that spread from home to shul to outside the shul. Clearly the problems do not affect only himself. I feel sorry for his family. I hope that someone appropriate steps in and does some good for him and his family. Something… Read more »

To those who defend the cruel father....
October 29, 2012 3:13 pm

Sit down. Close your eyes in a quiet place. Take a deep breath. Imagine a good father. How does he speak to his kjinderlach? How does he express his affection? DOES he express affection? How does he handle his son when the child makes a mistake? Does he keep in mind that the child is young and is trying to do the right thing? Does he keep in mind that the child might be one who has a tendency to forget, but not on purpose? Does he smack the child and scream at him in public? At home? Does he… Read more »

What is a good parent?
October 29, 2012 3:01 pm

Sick people! Need intervention! Raging parents are the problem! Children are children! Sick people use doctors! Get a doctor ASAP! If you do not want a doctor, consult with a reputable and respected leader of honor and intelligence! Do something before your child smacks you and screams at you so hard you will feel what he felt! Will you have deserved it? Did he deserve it? Just because you have the title of parent, that does not make you a good one! You are supposed to be the nurturer, the protector! He is a small child doing his best at… Read more »

Perhaps someone can explain....
October 29, 2012 2:55 pm

Would someone care to explain the story of the Rebbe Rashab slapping the Frierdiker Rebbe for not making a Bracha on his Tzitzis, despite the fact that he already made the Bracha?

As a side note, I think that this father in the op-ed IS the reason why kids go “off the derech”.

oximoron BT
October 29, 2012 2:10 pm

a BTwould have beaten the father!

our shul here in CH
October 29, 2012 1:46 pm

has a member there who constantly abuses his only son , slapping him, pinching him for talking , not following etc .this is despicable especially as the kid is only coping his father who is notorious for talking and even cursing in shul! This ain’t chinuch, but abuse! no hope for this poor kid….He ganna grow up to be as screwed up as his father!!

Don't compare
October 29, 2012 1:42 pm

the most unfortunate thing educators do is to compare this generation with past generations. What was acceptable then is not acceptable now, their struggles are not ours and vice-versa.

the worst part
October 29, 2012 1:32 pm

The worst part is that the father called him “you sheigitz”- the self image he instantly gave his son will ring in his ears far longer than the sting of the slap. Sad. He basically told his child “grow up to be one!”

12 yr old
October 29, 2012 1:30 pm

So sad I wish I can be there for that poor boy..

If one person reading this...
October 29, 2012 1:06 pm

… will think twice about hitting his kids in public then this article is worth it…

Under 13 is only chinuch so no big deal even if the kid did carry on shabbos, teach with love.

The father should have told his son ok, we’ll keep walking till we get home and theres no issur as carrying hits only if you stop…

not only is the father a boor but also ignorant, very sad/ Hasehm is disappointed in this man and we have obligation to tell him if he will listen…

transposition after, and legitimity of action?
October 29, 2012 12:48 pm

and if the child was not his child, what would be his reaction?
and if the child was an adult, his father, his brother in law, his son in law?
Hashem gives us situations in order for us to think how to deal, i suggest to transpose by transfigure this situation and discuss this issue to the next generation of fathers, to my class about it..

to #1
October 29, 2012 12:45 pm

Umm.. U dnt tell a father off INFRONT of his son..U bring them to the side..

Where are the Rebbeim?
October 29, 2012 12:28 pm

Abuse is a community problem. The “Rabbis” in charge of the community are not doing their jobs. If they continue to refuse to do their jobs, they should be ignored and the authorities should be called in.

To #68
October 29, 2012 12:09 pm

Of all the comments I’ve read here, yours upsets me the most. Please have a serious conversation with a real chossid. If you ever want to show you are indeed a person who actually is a Jew, the kind you believe you should be, then PLEASE. Talk to a real chossid fast. You are so misguided, and you sound so heartless. And a real chossid is neither misguided nor heartless. Do not continue your scary thinking in the name of Hashem.

To #98
October 29, 2012 11:56 am

It was you who used tuition to defend the ugly behavior you put upon your own child. It is you who does not have a clue as to the depth of harm you do in the name of money values. If you are stressed about tuition to the point of ugly behavior toward your own kindt, then you would be better off davening until your heart bleeds for your son. You would be better off trying to see things from his point of view. He is a small child. He is not perfect. He needs a Tati who shows love… Read more »

Wired
October 29, 2012 11:56 am

Why did he smack da kid is he crazy?!&in public unbelivable

kol hakavod ler' asman!
October 29, 2012 11:55 am

i am not so sure that all the commentators here know the first thing about chinuch! but that doesn’t stop them from criticizing a father trying to educate his son. what do you know, maybe the son also got a bad mark in school, maybe the son was chutzpadig. maybe the son didn’t daven nicely in 770, which certainly DOES merit a slap sometimes, and in public, which makes the message stronger, and other children can also see and learn (mimenu yiru vechein yasu). these complainers are probably the same people that complain when chasidishe bochurim from kvutze resort to… Read more »

to #68
October 29, 2012 11:38 am

Let me get this straight. You are calling this an insignificant happening. Sorry, but I think your reaction is scary. Read the original comment again. There is no way that was insignificant, at least not to compassionate adults who understand the far reaching effects of such excessive anger, volume of voice, and physical action. You, sir or madam, and your beliefs, are in serious question. You need guidance. Go to a rabbi who understands these issues, not one who agrees with your philosophy, PLEASE.

To #88
October 29, 2012 11:29 am

First of all the word is geza (or by some with a Nevel accent Gezha) which means root or someone whose roots in Lubavitch goes back for a number of generations. Yes. it was very foolish for someone to say that this was a BT however what the person might have been saying was that a knowledgeable father, whether geza or BT would have known that for a child to carry a tissue on Shabbes especially by accident, is not really the worst aveira as he is before Bar Mitzva, and in a karmelis. In such a situation the fathers… Read more »

94....
October 29, 2012 11:16 am

Rebellious? Disobedient? You know me?? Right…. I hope you know yourself though. That’s all that matters here. Know yourself, your strengths, weaknesses and capacity for love. Then know when, where and how much to use of them. As for ears, it seems my comment was not unfounded. If you LISTENed (or, read in this instance) not once did I Say or suggest there is never an instance where a ‘patch’ my be necessary, but, regardless of your assumption that this is simply modern madness; smacking should be the EXCEPTION to th rule, and not vice versa. In fact, it shows… Read more »

It was me
October 29, 2012 11:08 am

Everybody knows how to raise my kid. That’s comforting. Can you please also pay his tuition?

THERAPY
October 29, 2012 11:05 am

Like i always say, “Go to therapy; so your kids wont have to!”. – lyr

an angry mom
October 29, 2012 10:46 am

was he a baal teshova?????

abuse
October 29, 2012 10:14 am

This is severe abuse ,this has NOTHING to do with discipline.
if he can do this in public can you imagine what he does when noone is looking ,what is shocking that you did not say or do something .

re:83 from #68
October 29, 2012 9:05 am

Yes, thank g-d you are not my child, I would never stand for such a disobedient and rebellious child. Also, regarding what you said about “modern day psychiatrists and rabbonim etc.” I could not agree with you more. Correct, that is what they would tell you, don’t hit, don’t discipline, just talk it out with the child, it will all work out. Now I invite you to take a look at todays youth and contrast them with the people of our generation, I font think I need to go into length, v’dal……

Meir-the Rebbes point of view
October 29, 2012 8:59 am

B”H
Anyone who supports hitting and would like to know the Rebbes view on the subject (against it) merely has to view the Jem video with Rabbi Lew from London in which he made an astonishing admission to the Rebbe in Yechidis and the Rebbe spoke to him about this topic

BT?
October 29, 2012 8:59 am

Please, that’s not nice…….the Rebbe brought us in with love, and let’s keep it that way……

An Educator
October 29, 2012 7:48 am

Two rules to capital punishment: (i.e. physical punishment) 1) Never to embarrass (not in public etc.) 2) Never to call names- To call a child a shaigetz is to disown them. There is no road back from calling a child names. It tells the child that their bad behavior has made them lost to you, something which children pick up at a young age. A patch- almost every child needs one at some point in their life. When, where and how are the questions to be asked, and in public is not the answer. I am not judging the father-… Read more »

to #2 and #55
October 29, 2012 6:22 am

ridiculous comments it’s easier to blame the BTs for everything. Take a look around you. Many gezha have serious problems. I have seen geszha whack their kids unnecessarily. Wake up buddy. To #34 how could you hear about it shabbos morning in shul if you were learning chassidus, davening and following laining.

WHAT DID THE ON LOOKER DO ?
October 29, 2012 6:18 am

Your just as sick cause u didn’t face the father

#2 must of been a BT???
October 29, 2012 5:15 am

#2 You low life I am frum from birth but the worst child abuse offenders are the so called “gezher fathers and mothers” whose parents “PISHED iN NEVEL” and not much else to offer the legacy of chassidus. How dare you summise it was a BT. It is a fact that educated normal balanced BT families raise far better, normal, educated kids than your geszher kids. Ufortunately so many geszher kids have gone off the derech due to their psycological and emotional abuse to keep their kids up with their “peers” in school and yeshivah instead of allowing them to… Read more »

i know of good therapst
October 29, 2012 5:15 am

you mentioned therapy in your article i like where your going with that i am a therapist please call me I CAN HELP!

NEVER ACCEPTABLE
October 29, 2012 4:47 am

Judging from the number of comments who support hitting, or are somehow defending the father, (about 15 comments) it seems that it was a good idea to publicise this and put the record straight……..

It is NEVER acceptable to hit anyone.

LESSON FOR LIFE
October 29, 2012 4:41 am

I too as a young child had a similar experience. However, i was slapped in private not publicly which makes a great difference. Being hit publicly can have a traumatic lifelong effect on a child. This was the first and last time that my father ever hit me, and I can truthfully say that it instilled a sense of awareness in regards to being diligent about checking my pockets to this day (almost 55 years later). To assume that this father always hits his child is just that, an assumption. I look back at the experience, and actually enjoy relating… Read more »

no words
October 29, 2012 2:10 am

This whole world is messed up ….

#68
October 29, 2012 1:39 am

With ‘respect’, perhaps you title should have more appropriately been ‘another misguided crown heights father’. There is no doubt in my mind tha the Rebbe, and most forward-thinking, leading chinuch thinkers, and psychologists of our time would vehemently disagree with you. Thank G-d I am not your child. Really. I would be sporting more black and blue than the stormy skies right now, no doubt. Sometimes people are so ‘open-minded’ that their brains have fallen out. Itvis a fact that slapping a child (period, but especially across his face) in public is tantamount to a huge embarrassment band disgrace, does… Read more »

to 79 and others...
October 29, 2012 1:36 am

What are you talking about? if the child was 5 or even older he is NOT, repeat NOT obligated to do Mitzvohs,, so there is NO halacha here whatsoever.. Now the father has an obligation to Educate the child. If anyone here thinks that by smacking the child, especially in public, that this is education, then you must seriously go to classes, lectures, read books etc about how to educate your child. What this father did will C”V ONLY do harm. But I do agree with those that say that the author should have approached the father. For when you… Read more »

Mixed emotions...anger and sadness 'win', however :-(
October 29, 2012 1:27 am

On the one hand, kol hakavod to the author for seeing and SAYING. Even if (‘just’) to us… Not all would follow up on passing, albeit disturbing, events and actually report them. On the other hand, I wish you could have found a way to get the information on who this man/child were, if not confront him yourself in the street. While some jump to say you should have yelled at the father, I feel it necessary to point out that too often when an abuser (as he may be) is attacked, they either simply yell/fight back causing a scene… Read more »

He Will Regret It
October 29, 2012 1:03 am

Children grow up and often they don’t forget these things, especially if it happens often.
The father will one day wish that he never had hands because of the horrible relations he will have with his children.
This method has been proven to, ultimately backfire every single time.
Never forget, those who slap will get slapped.

not sure what the halacha is, but
October 29, 2012 12:32 am

have once heard that if one goes outside and realizes he is carrying, he should just continue walking without stopping and go inside someplace, without removing the object outside.as long as the object was not taken out of his pocket outside and he continued walking till inside again, it may not be a problem. is this correct? then the child should not have been stopped outside about the tissue…. if someone knows, please explain what the din really is. thanks.

oooops to 31
October 29, 2012 12:28 am

I didn’t realize you meant rebbeim for real, I thought you meant teachers

To 23
October 29, 2012 12:26 am

The frierdiker rebbe writes based on the alter rebbe that a father which slaps their child is “not chossid because a chossid doesn’t hit”.

relativity
October 29, 2012 12:10 am

Smacking a child is neither right or wrong. In fact, it is the sum total of the relationship that matters. By this I mean the 99.9 percent of the time that the child is (or is not, depending on your method of discipline) being hit that matters. Can your child approach you? Do you encourage your child to express his or her feelings? Communication is really the most important thing regardless of the method you choose for discipline

To #2
October 28, 2012 11:57 pm

Unfortunately, I find that there is an equal distribution of mentally deficient people between ffb;s and bt’s. I am sure that you exemplify this. You can’t always blame the bt’s for the ills of Crown Heights.

yussle the L Muscle
October 28, 2012 11:56 pm

Many many years ago I was working in a home on crown st. At some point my boss and I looked out the window and saw a father beating his kid on the sidewalk.. It didn’t take more then 5 seconds, that I ran down the stairs, out the door and caught up with this father, and I confronted him, I said if he ever beat his kid again like that, I would break his legs…I don’t know if it helped or not, but at 18 yrs old, that is all I could think of to do. Over the years… Read more »

#68 well written
October 28, 2012 11:47 pm

Its about time this was done!!
We should all learn from this!

Thank you
October 28, 2012 11:39 pm

Thank you for bringing this issue to everyone’s attention. Awareness is the first step to solving problems. Obviously saying something to this father in private might help salvage this particular family, but bringing this issue to light could save many more families. If you see yourself in this story, please, please get help to deal with your anger. You’ll save yourself a lot of heartache down the road.

To 68
October 28, 2012 11:34 pm

This act can not be called “chinuch”.
It can be called “how to teach your child not to like shabbos”.

THAT IS NOT AHAVAT ISRAEL !!
October 28, 2012 11:28 pm

AND YOU DEAR WRITER, SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING ON THE SPOT!

TAKE AWAY THE HAPPINESS FROM THE KIDS,
AND YOU CAN LOSE THEM LATER!!!!

BE KIND PARENTS!!! WORK HASHEM BESIMCHA 🙂

...
October 28, 2012 11:21 pm

A parent is allowed to discipline their child.
However, all discipline should come from chesed.
Sometimes a slap or patch is necessary.
But to humiliate a child in public or to speak to a child in a negative way is never appropriate.

Another crown heights father
October 28, 2012 11:21 pm

Wow, such a full length aryicle about such a small insignificant episode. Have you ever heard of a word called “chinuch”?!?! How do you ever expect this child to grow up to be a chassidishe bochur if we just let him nlow off shabbos with such abandon?!?! Plus, correct me if i’m wrong, but i dont think this father made the brocho of “boruch she’ptorani” yet. Maybe the father was just trying to save his own soul! Why cant anyone think of this open mindedly?!?! If we all just calmed down a bit and looked a little deeper then wjats… Read more »

to number 2 from a BT
October 28, 2012 11:00 pm

Thanks a ton, this is really sick… See the difference is, most C”Hers would stand by and not necessarily do anything when they see this, I would hope that some BT’s (those who aren’t so brainwashed that they think the father is a tzadik for teaching his kid halacha, or would think (i need to call a rov to ask what to think) would either say something or better, take the guy behind a building and give him what he gave his son…. and yet the BT would be looked at as meshuggeh. go figure…. Oh, and I suppose this… Read more »

Sick sick and sick!!
October 28, 2012 10:55 pm

I am sick to hear that this sick father (term ‘father’ used extremely loosely only to connote blood relation) could do such a heinous act and since it was done in public I am sick that nobody scolded the man or called for the police. The person who wrote this article has a civil duty to call child services (the frum one) and have this family looked into. This cannot be allowed in our community, nor any community!! This act is illegal and horribly wrong in so many ways. Why do we just pretend like it doesn’t effect us? To… Read more »

Rabbeim
October 28, 2012 10:42 pm

How dare you bring up the Rabeiim. Not a single person saw this discipline, they didn’t call their sons Shigetz, and they weren’t ANGRY. To compare this irresponsible act to the Rabbeiim is INSULTING to the highest degree. As for the story: Read what the guy wrote. The slapping across the face, while yelling that he was Mechalel Shabbos (not running across the street or fighting with a friend), all this in public – this is OUTRAGEOUS! This is not an article about the merits of Chinuch, and how and when to hit. It was about all the other details… Read more »

YOU DO NOT KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY
October 28, 2012 10:27 pm

And neither do I. but who are you to judge??!! and besides, do you think YOU are the perfect parent? I´m sure you´ve also made mistakes. And i don´t only mean smacking. Sometimes words are MUCH worse than a slap. Now how would you like it if someone who found out about what YOU did would write it all up in a completely biased article making you sound like your a mean and dangerous person? If you would REALLY care, instead of writing this op-ed you would go over to the father and clear the details, and if necessary, tell… Read more »

....
October 28, 2012 10:17 pm

let me just told u all something. i was once a kid and i know. what the father just did WILL NOT at all teach the child a lesoon, if anything he will be turned off and will think, i dont want to be part of these types of people. They will be turned off and will rebel. NEVER FORCE yiddishkeit on the child, all it will do is pressure them and have the opposite affect. I am not saying not to teach your kids yiidishkeit, chas vsholom! but do it with love and respect. Then and only then will… Read more »

Chillul Shabbos
October 28, 2012 10:12 pm

This kid will likely be mechallel shabbos when he’s older!

no question...
October 28, 2012 10:10 pm

for sure that man is a looser, i feel bad for the kid, i am sure he love his tati, – even thou he’s a looser- and the way he will show his love to him is being like his tati, unfortunately…unles someone tell him that it’s ok to be better than his righteous tati…

to number 56
October 28, 2012 10:09 pm

I think that you are way off the mark on this one. What everyone is saying is that with the one slap for carrying on Shabbos by mistake the father will (chas vshalom) lose his son’s respect for father and for yiddishkeit in many more ways than one.

A shandeh
October 28, 2012 10:05 pm

There is no excuse foe hitting a child like that, unless perhaps the child has crossed a dangerous street and the adult has to make a huge impression on the child to never do it again. I read that the adult in question hits often. He needs to be stopped. He might have been slugged around as a youth also, so maybe the cyle continues. It’s ridiculous. Stop him. Talk to him. Explain to him. If that doesn’t work, report him. I don’t know of any good coming from that kind of physical violence, no matter what the outer results… Read more »

Excuses, Excuses..
October 28, 2012 9:57 pm

Why are you people justifying why this father may of smacked his son…you may as well take it all the way and justify why a child is abused, tormented, tortured, and need I say more…Judge not what you do not know…if the anger is there, the smack will come out.. Thank goodness the majority of parents do not carry around such anger.

lost souls
October 28, 2012 9:52 pm

#13.. You should check yourself.. This should be your lost opportunity for good..”Broadcast”? “Public”? absolutely, make this known to “the public”, absolutely, “broadcast this”..maybe, just maybe it will be your opportunity to run into this person and you can save a child..do not blame the person for now speaking up at that moment…most of the time people are caught off guard and regret they did not act quickly..I am certain that has happened to you, if you are human. When a child is abused or any person, it does become public and should be public, why would we want to… Read more »

And what if ? after so many warnings to stay off the computer...
October 28, 2012 9:48 pm

Your child got gets onto your computer, downloads a virus, deletes all your business data files etc.. OK all you Mr. Nice Guys, you would remain calm, pat your kid on his back , explain him why its such a ‘ not nice’ thing to do, and give him a lolly pop if he promises never to do it again. Bottom line… I dont think its the slapping that bothers you so much, after all everyone smacks their kids sometimes. Rather its the reason for the slap – ‘ only Chillul Shabbos ‘ so what’s so terrible – such an… Read more »

BT'S
October 28, 2012 9:46 pm

agree with #2 out of ch the BT’S are less involved in how one must react in a frum environment. i have seen BT fathers abuse the heck out of their children. Especially the ones that come from trash environments

To all readers
October 28, 2012 9:42 pm

I once saw a parent slap their child, similar to what is being described.

What was most noteworthy, however, is that the next week, I saw the same child with what looked to be his younger siblings, man-handling them.

Scary, but perfectly logical, when you think about it. This is how life is to this child.

Let us hope that the parent is reading this and will right his wrong.

And you went so far as to read this post, we all have what to learn and ponder in how to bring up our children.

to #2
October 28, 2012 9:33 pm

why would you say it must be a BT?? just plain rude of you to say.

Guys!
October 28, 2012 9:32 pm

The author should have told him, let’s say. But b=maybe he didn’t know him and didn’t have the time to think!

I was there
October 28, 2012 9:19 pm

I was there and I saw it. Not the first time I have seen that person hit another human

Why didn't you do something about it?
October 28, 2012 9:17 pm

Instead of writing op-eds you should have confronted the father. I guarantee you that would have stopped him from doing it again – at least – in public.

The Rebbe Writes
October 28, 2012 9:07 pm

As a parent, i constantly use the wonderful reference-book that Rabbi Levi Goldstein published, thousands of horo’os of the Rebbe on every subject in chinuch.
about hitting, the Rebbe forbids it entirely! in igros kodesh vol 12 pg 266. vol 13 pg 4. vol 13 pg 138. vol 21 pg 194.

if several of you know who this is...
October 28, 2012 9:06 pm

please do something…

Would u report the Rashab to the authorities?
October 28, 2012 9:05 pm

The Rashab slapped the Freirdiker Rebbe when he was a young child – I guess you would have also reported the Rashab and send him to jail or counselling!

To #34
October 28, 2012 8:50 pm

If you know who he is, yes, report him to the police. I’m a mandated reporter, so if you can give full details I will report him to the authorities. I’ll be nice, I’ll start with Ohel.

to # 43
October 28, 2012 8:45 pm

I know that story ty, i just wrote another comment to #23 & #31, just b4 u posted that. #30

#31 & 23
October 28, 2012 8:43 pm

there Feirdike Rebbe relates in his diary the one time he was hit by his father the Rebbe Rashab, its a well know story, and he doesn’t write that he felt that it was abusive in any way, it was one time and part of Chinuch. As regards to the other Rebbeim Ive never heard a story of any of them Hitting any of their children. Another point look at my comment #30,

to number 30
October 28, 2012 8:39 pm

The frierdiker rebbe writes in one of his own seforim that when he was a young boy, his father once told him to make a brocha on his tzitzis. He replied: no, i have already made a brocha on my tzitzis today. The Rebbe Rashab again told his son to make a brocha on his tzitzis, and the young Frierdiker Rebbe again replied: no, I already did it. Then his father slapped him soundly across the face. The Frierdiker Rebbe records this as the only time his father had ever slapped him.

Question
October 28, 2012 8:36 pm

How do you even know that it was a father and son?

To #24.
October 28, 2012 8:36 pm

If the father would be a father, perhaps he would have reminded his child before he left shul to check his pocket. Oh, no, he enjoys beating his children. I know who this father is and have seen him beating his children before.

slap
October 28, 2012 8:35 pm

maybe the father asked him several times to check his pocket? maybe this happens every single week, in fact i respect this dad hes busy worrying about his kids chinuch so that his son grows up to understand how severe chillul shaboss is, i bet you this father is a great dad whos son is lucky to have a dad care about his chillul shaboss while your kids have a dad tat either fabricated a story (instead of focusing taking care of your kids).

Thought
October 28, 2012 8:31 pm

Do you ever see a father putting his hands in his son pocket after shul on a Friday night?
He obviously warned him before, and the child didn’t listen.
Agree with 26 Don’t judge!

Time to think
October 28, 2012 8:29 pm

And what if this slap across the face had nothing to do with the tissue in the pocket ? It happen to be my brother and his child the story goes way back nothing to do with shabbos , if u all want to know sooooooo this is what happen b4 walking into shul his son wanted to cross esternpkway all alone ….my brother than was screaming at him that he should never cross it alone since he is only 8 years old ….and than doing davening he my nephew was fighiting with other boy and the boy was crying… Read more »

this article entitles children to have 'claim's against their parents
October 28, 2012 8:28 pm
mendel k
October 28, 2012 8:28 pm

the father should have his face smacked by me ..now

Nebach.....
October 28, 2012 8:28 pm

Whoever wrote the article should make the phonecall…………Save A Life Today!!

Heard about this Shabbos morning
October 28, 2012 8:24 pm

I heard about this Shabbos morning in shul. The guy that does this, didn’t just do this one time. Poor kids are constantly being abused by this father. What is one to do? Call the police on him?? Perhaps, and maybe this will save his children that will one day run away from all this because of his abuse.

Shliach
October 28, 2012 8:24 pm

Watch this kid grow to be a successfull shliach and or a communal Rov!

i know
October 28, 2012 8:22 pm

iknow how it feels

#23 prove it!!
October 28, 2012 8:22 pm

How dare you say that the Rebbeim slapped their children?! I refuse to believe that they were ever abusive to their children! It is a chutzpah to make such a claim!

#25
October 28, 2012 8:20 pm

theres no lesson to be taught. it happens, we all make mistakes, chinuch is a way of life not a one time thing, the father has another 6 yrs to teach his son how special Shabbos is.

to # 2
October 28, 2012 8:20 pm

you sicken me

Nebach
October 28, 2012 8:14 pm

I have such rachmanus on the kid…..& its probably not the 1st time or the 1st one the father hit

Watch this
October 28, 2012 8:13 pm

It’s nice of you to learn from it but like #1 said, you should have stood up for the helpless kid even though it’s uncomfortable.

It reminds me of the video that went around a while back of a father at the Kotel abusing his daughter. And the only thing sadder than the content of it was the non-frum Jews around who came to help the abused child when certainly there were many frum jews there.

judgement
October 28, 2012 8:10 pm

Don’t judge! Perhaps the father told his son before going to shul “empty your pocket” and the son didn’t listen.
Let’s say the son was chutzpa all week long.
You simply don’t know,so don’t judge!

Really?
October 28, 2012 8:03 pm

You are all making an over exaggeration about it. Ok, so the boy was slightly smacked with an open hand. So what? Not bad at all. Maybe that was the best way to teach him a lesson

guess what!
October 28, 2012 8:02 pm

I bet that kid wont ever carry a tissue in his pocket again!

Rebbeim got slapped from their fathers too
October 28, 2012 7:52 pm

I recall reading a few stories of various rebbeim Chabad who were little and got a slap from their fathers – who was Rebbe at the time. Seems that a patch from a father or teacher is proper chinuch (- unless you also think the Rebbeim were wrong too)!

#2
October 28, 2012 7:50 pm

what is the matter with you? where did you come up with such ab assumption?

Father did Hanocho...
October 28, 2012 7:46 pm

Kid technically is not over apart from chinuch has no obligationm, the father does.

better not to confront the father then
October 28, 2012 7:44 pm

He would probably beat up the kid even more because of the embarrassment caused

quiet?
October 28, 2012 7:40 pm

Absolutely not!! The more public the less likely an abuser will continue to abuse. This is most probably not the first time the child was hit and this has nothing to do with teaching his son halacha – he hit his son and put the kid down with calling him a name.

To #1
October 28, 2012 7:40 pm

It is possible that the writer didnt have enough time to react, had the father continued to beat his son, i am sure he would have intervened. Having said that, rather than creating a bigger gap in the relashionship between father an son, the best step would be to take the father aside and talk to him in the most friendly manner and explain how this is not right, and that this can actually have the opposite effect on the child. The father should then turn to the child and apologize, and work on repairing his relashionship with him, once… Read more »

Solution
October 28, 2012 7:34 pm

Smack the father !!!!
His doing it to his son in public is as much an eveirah as a minor carrying “unintentionally” a tissue in his pocket bireshus horabim!!

Aaron
October 28, 2012 7:33 pm

B”H
1. There is no reason ever to hit a kid
2.maybe he hit him not over Shabbos observance, maybe the father told the boy not to put the tissue in his pocket and the child did not listen

to #2
October 28, 2012 7:24 pm

what they heck is wrong with u
was probably u

all
October 28, 2012 7:20 pm

the problem is that the definition of “frum” is driven too much by halacha…what i mean is that the type of person you are , the way oner relates to others ( wife, kids others etc) is ignored BUT as long as you seem to be “observant” , that is all that matters . This is a topic unto itself…

OY
October 28, 2012 7:17 pm

BH
BSD

AND THIS HAS TO BROADCAST ALL OVER THE GLOBE?
HOW ABOUT KEEPING IT QUIET AND MAYBE IT WAS YOUR LOST OPPORTUNITY THAT MAYBE YOU COULD HAVE DIFFUSED THE SITUATION…

CH'er,,, p.s.
October 28, 2012 7:12 pm

thank you # 9 very true, I’ve heard it myself from youngsters that went off,

Why do you write this?
October 28, 2012 7:12 pm

This guy is abusive to his son, you should have acted immediately and confronted this nut to protect this poor boy. Poor kid he probably gets a lot more than that when no one’s around! Someone has ro help him. Dear writer you think your little story is gonna change the anger issues this guy has?

CH'er
October 28, 2012 7:09 pm

as I remember correctly, the Rebbe used to remind the gaboyim to announce on a day when yom tov goes straight into shabbos, that all shall check their pockets, if i remember correctly, it was in 1989 or 1990 the rebbe told R’ Groner to remind the Gabbay to announce it,, yes a very common mistake, but to slap a child od 5-6 yrs old (if true) has no bases in chinuch, for me, I would take my child on a side when no one is listening, and mention to him as such… ” mein kind I think you have… Read more »

unhelpful
October 28, 2012 6:58 pm

with that smack the father through his son of the derech

To the author,
October 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Please try with all your might to find out who this person was.If he had the gall and guts to do this in public, its presumably much worse in the home. You may be able to save an entire family from physical and verbal abuse.

I have to agree with #1.
October 28, 2012 6:56 pm

I know it’s hard to say something but sometimes you havce to. Do you know who he is? Could you have found out? If so, it’s not too late, call him. Tell him what he faces in 10 years time. Tell him to ask his Rav or Mashpia if he acted appropriately. I also think once you find out the kid’/father’s name, call his Yeshiva. The school should be on the lookout for signs of abuse, including withdrawn & fearful responses. Nebach, this is a little boy. Father needs serious help. Probably so does Mom, I’ll bet she’s a victim… Read more »

thanks
October 28, 2012 6:46 pm

well written, unfortunately a lot of pple need guidance

OUCH
October 28, 2012 6:46 pm

Wow! With one slap the father manged to turn his son off yiddishkeit. Hopefully he’ll find a nice Yid to turn him back on.
Some parents need to get psychiatric help before they go near their children.

pointless
October 28, 2012 6:46 pm

The father of the kid wont read this. He thinks that those who use the internet should be slapped.

unbelievable
October 28, 2012 6:43 pm

i saw this once, but the only thing that was different was that it was a yeshivish father. so i figured that it was a “yeshivish” kind of thing which obviously didnt appeal to me-and of course i was totally disgusted. knowing that this idea also exists in the lubavitch community is disgusting.

must have been a bt
October 28, 2012 6:41 pm

def a hoyder

YOU
October 28, 2012 6:38 pm

how come YOU didn’t have the GUTS to confront the father yourself
why write about it here… you should have been man enough to say something on the spot.

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