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Tuesday, 20 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 23, 2019

    The Stringent Angry Father

    From the COLlive inbox: This past Friday night, I was standing outside 770, and I saw a most outrageous thing unfold before my disbelieving eyes. Full Story

    Wedding: Perl – Ladaev

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    YOU
    Guest
    YOU

    how come YOU didn’t have the GUTS to confront the father yourself
    why write about it here… you should have been man enough to say something on the spot.

    must have been a bt
    Guest
    must have been a bt

    def a hoyder

    unbelievable
    Guest
    unbelievable

    i saw this once, but the only thing that was different was that it was a yeshivish father. so i figured that it was a “yeshivish” kind of thing which obviously didnt appeal to me-and of course i was totally disgusted. knowing that this idea also exists in the lubavitch community is disgusting.

    pointless
    Guest
    pointless

    The father of the kid wont read this. He thinks that those who use the internet should be slapped.

    OUCH
    Guest
    OUCH

    Wow! With one slap the father manged to turn his son off yiddishkeit. Hopefully he’ll find a nice Yid to turn him back on.
    Some parents need to get psychiatric help before they go near their children.

    thanks
    Guest
    thanks

    well written, unfortunately a lot of pple need guidance

    I have to agree with #1.
    Guest
    I have to agree with #1.

    I know it’s hard to say something but sometimes you havce to. Do you know who he is? Could you have found out? If so, it’s not too late, call him. Tell him what he faces in 10 years time. Tell him to ask his Rav or Mashpia if he acted appropriately. I also think once you find out the kid’/father’s name, call his Yeshiva. The school should be on the lookout for signs of abuse, including withdrawn & fearful responses. Nebach, this is a little boy. Father needs serious help. Probably so does Mom, I’ll bet she’s a victim… Read more »

    To the author,
    Guest
    To the author,

    Please try with all your might to find out who this person was.If he had the gall and guts to do this in public, its presumably much worse in the home. You may be able to save an entire family from physical and verbal abuse.

    unhelpful
    Guest
    unhelpful

    with that smack the father through his son of the derech

    CH'er
    Guest
    CH'er

    as I remember correctly, the Rebbe used to remind the gaboyim to announce on a day when yom tov goes straight into shabbos, that all shall check their pockets, if i remember correctly, it was in 1989 or 1990 the rebbe told R’ Groner to remind the Gabbay to announce it,, yes a very common mistake, but to slap a child od 5-6 yrs old (if true) has no bases in chinuch, for me, I would take my child on a side when no one is listening, and mention to him as such… ” mein kind I think you have… Read more »

    Why do you write this?
    Guest
    Why do you write this?

    This guy is abusive to his son, you should have acted immediately and confronted this nut to protect this poor boy. Poor kid he probably gets a lot more than that when no one’s around! Someone has ro help him. Dear writer you think your little story is gonna change the anger issues this guy has?

    CH'er,,,  p.s.
    Guest
    CH'er,,, p.s.

    thank you # 9 very true, I’ve heard it myself from youngsters that went off,

    OY
    Guest
    OY

    BH
    BSD

    AND THIS HAS TO BROADCAST ALL OVER THE GLOBE?
    HOW ABOUT KEEPING IT QUIET AND MAYBE IT WAS YOUR LOST OPPORTUNITY THAT MAYBE YOU COULD HAVE DIFFUSED THE SITUATION…

    all
    Guest
    all

    the problem is that the definition of “frum” is driven too much by halacha…what i mean is that the type of person you are , the way oner relates to others ( wife, kids others etc) is ignored BUT as long as you seem to be “observant” , that is all that matters . This is a topic unto itself…

    to #2
    Guest
    to #2

    what they heck is wrong with u
    was probably u

    Aaron
    Guest
    Aaron

    B”H
    1. There is no reason ever to hit a kid
    2.maybe he hit him not over Shabbos observance, maybe the father told the boy not to put the tissue in his pocket and the child did not listen

    Solution
    Guest
    Solution

    Smack the father !!!!
    His doing it to his son in public is as much an eveirah as a minor carrying “unintentionally” a tissue in his pocket bireshus horabim!!

    To #1
    Guest
    To #1

    It is possible that the writer didnt have enough time to react, had the father continued to beat his son, i am sure he would have intervened. Having said that, rather than creating a bigger gap in the relashionship between father an son, the best step would be to take the father aside and talk to him in the most friendly manner and explain how this is not right, and that this can actually have the opposite effect on the child. The father should then turn to the child and apologize, and work on repairing his relashionship with him, once… Read more »

    quiet?
    Guest
    quiet?

    Absolutely not!! The more public the less likely an abuser will continue to abuse. This is most probably not the first time the child was hit and this has nothing to do with teaching his son halacha – he hit his son and put the kid down with calling him a name.

    better not to confront the father then
    Guest
    better not to confront the father then

    He would probably beat up the kid even more because of the embarrassment caused

    Father did Hanocho...
    Guest
    Father did Hanocho...

    Kid technically is not over apart from chinuch has no obligationm, the father does.

    #2
    Guest
    #2

    what is the matter with you? where did you come up with such ab assumption?

    Rebbeim got slapped from their fathers too
    Guest
    Rebbeim got slapped from their fathers too

    I recall reading a few stories of various rebbeim Chabad who were little and got a slap from their fathers – who was Rebbe at the time. Seems that a patch from a father or teacher is proper chinuch (- unless you also think the Rebbeim were wrong too)!

    guess what!
    Guest
    guess what!

    I bet that kid wont ever carry a tissue in his pocket again!

    Really?
    Guest
    Really?

    You are all making an over exaggeration about it. Ok, so the boy was slightly smacked with an open hand. So what? Not bad at all. Maybe that was the best way to teach him a lesson

    judgement
    Guest
    judgement

    Don’t judge! Perhaps the father told his son before going to shul “empty your pocket” and the son didn’t listen.
    Let’s say the son was chutzpa all week long.
    You simply don’t know,so don’t judge!

    Watch this
    Guest
    Watch this

    It’s nice of you to learn from it but like #1 said, you should have stood up for the helpless kid even though it’s uncomfortable.

    It reminds me of the video that went around a while back of a father at the Kotel abusing his daughter. And the only thing sadder than the content of it was the non-frum Jews around who came to help the abused child when certainly there were many frum jews there.

    Nebach
    Guest
    Nebach

    I have such rachmanus on the kid…..& its probably not the 1st time or the 1st one the father hit

    to # 2
    Guest
    to # 2

    you sicken me

    #25
    Guest
    #25

    theres no lesson to be taught. it happens, we all make mistakes, chinuch is a way of life not a one time thing, the father has another 6 yrs to teach his son how special Shabbos is.

    #23 prove it!!
    Guest
    #23 prove it!!

    How dare you say that the Rebbeim slapped their children?! I refuse to believe that they were ever abusive to their children! It is a chutzpah to make such a claim!

    i know
    Guest
    i know

    iknow how it feels

    Shliach
    Guest
    Shliach

    Watch this kid grow to be a successfull shliach and or a communal Rov!

    Heard about this Shabbos morning
    Guest
    Heard about this Shabbos morning

    I heard about this Shabbos morning in shul. The guy that does this, didn’t just do this one time. Poor kids are constantly being abused by this father. What is one to do? Call the police on him?? Perhaps, and maybe this will save his children that will one day run away from all this because of his abuse.

    Nebach.....
    Guest
    Nebach.....

    Whoever wrote the article should make the phonecall…………Save A Life Today!!

    mendel   k
    Guest
    mendel k

    the father should have his face smacked by me ..now

    this article entitles children to have 'claim's against their parents
    Guest
    this article entitles children to have 'claim's against their parents
    Time to think
    Guest
    Time to think

    And what if this slap across the face had nothing to do with the tissue in the pocket ? It happen to be my brother and his child the story goes way back nothing to do with shabbos , if u all want to know sooooooo this is what happen b4 walking into shul his son wanted to cross esternpkway all alone ….my brother than was screaming at him that he should never cross it alone since he is only 8 years old ….and than doing davening he my nephew was fighiting with other boy and the boy was crying… Read more »

    Thought
    Guest
    Thought

    Do you ever see a father putting his hands in his son pocket after shul on a Friday night?
    He obviously warned him before, and the child didn’t listen.
    Agree with 26 Don’t judge!

    slap
    Guest
    slap

    maybe the father asked him several times to check his pocket? maybe this happens every single week, in fact i respect this dad hes busy worrying about his kids chinuch so that his son grows up to understand how severe chillul shaboss is, i bet you this father is a great dad whos son is lucky to have a dad care about his chillul shaboss while your kids have a dad tat either fabricated a story (instead of focusing taking care of your kids).

    To #24.
    Guest
    To #24.

    If the father would be a father, perhaps he would have reminded his child before he left shul to check his pocket. Oh, no, he enjoys beating his children. I know who this father is and have seen him beating his children before.

    Question
    Guest
    Question

    How do you even know that it was a father and son?

    to number 30
    Guest
    to number 30

    The frierdiker rebbe writes in one of his own seforim that when he was a young boy, his father once told him to make a brocha on his tzitzis. He replied: no, i have already made a brocha on my tzitzis today. The Rebbe Rashab again told his son to make a brocha on his tzitzis, and the young Frierdiker Rebbe again replied: no, I already did it. Then his father slapped him soundly across the face. The Frierdiker Rebbe records this as the only time his father had ever slapped him.

    #31 & 23
    Guest
    #31 & 23

    there Feirdike Rebbe relates in his diary the one time he was hit by his father the Rebbe Rashab, its a well know story, and he doesn’t write that he felt that it was abusive in any way, it was one time and part of Chinuch. As regards to the other Rebbeim Ive never heard a story of any of them Hitting any of their children. Another point look at my comment #30,

    to # 43
    Guest
    to # 43

    I know that story ty, i just wrote another comment to #23 & #31, just b4 u posted that. #30

    To #34
    Guest
    To #34

    If you know who he is, yes, report him to the police. I’m a mandated reporter, so if you can give full details I will report him to the authorities. I’ll be nice, I’ll start with Ohel.

    Would u report the Rashab to the authorities?
    Guest
    Would u report the Rashab to the authorities?

    The Rashab slapped the Freirdiker Rebbe when he was a young child – I guess you would have also reported the Rashab and send him to jail or counselling!

    if several of you know who this is...
    Guest
    if several of you know who this is...

    please do something…

    The Rebbe Writes
    Guest
    The Rebbe Writes

    As a parent, i constantly use the wonderful reference-book that Rabbi Levi Goldstein published, thousands of horo’os of the Rebbe on every subject in chinuch.
    about hitting, the Rebbe forbids it entirely! in igros kodesh vol 12 pg 266. vol 13 pg 4. vol 13 pg 138. vol 21 pg 194.

    Why didn't you do something about it?
    Guest
    Why didn't you do something about it?

    Instead of writing op-eds you should have confronted the father. I guarantee you that would have stopped him from doing it again – at least – in public.

    I was there
    Guest
    I was there

    I was there and I saw it. Not the first time I have seen that person hit another human

    Guys!
    Guest
    Guys!

    The author should have told him, let’s say. But b=maybe he didn’t know him and didn’t have the time to think!

    to #2
    Guest
    to #2

    why would you say it must be a BT?? just plain rude of you to say.

    To all readers
    Guest
    To all readers

    I once saw a parent slap their child, similar to what is being described.

    What was most noteworthy, however, is that the next week, I saw the same child with what looked to be his younger siblings, man-handling them.

    Scary, but perfectly logical, when you think about it. This is how life is to this child.

    Let us hope that the parent is reading this and will right his wrong.

    And you went so far as to read this post, we all have what to learn and ponder in how to bring up our children.

    BT'S
    Guest
    BT'S

    agree with #2 out of ch the BT’S are less involved in how one must react in a frum environment. i have seen BT fathers abuse the heck out of their children. Especially the ones that come from trash environments

    And what if ? after so many warnings to stay off the computer...
    Guest
    And what if ? after so many warnings to stay off the computer...

    Your child got gets onto your computer, downloads a virus, deletes all your business data files etc.. OK all you Mr. Nice Guys, you would remain calm, pat your kid on his back , explain him why its such a ‘ not nice’ thing to do, and give him a lolly pop if he promises never to do it again. Bottom line… I dont think its the slapping that bothers you so much, after all everyone smacks their kids sometimes. Rather its the reason for the slap – ‘ only Chillul Shabbos ‘ so what’s so terrible – such an… Read more »

    lost souls
    Guest
    lost souls

    #13.. You should check yourself.. This should be your lost opportunity for good..”Broadcast”? “Public”? absolutely, make this known to “the public”, absolutely, “broadcast this”..maybe, just maybe it will be your opportunity to run into this person and you can save a child..do not blame the person for now speaking up at that moment…most of the time people are caught off guard and regret they did not act quickly..I am certain that has happened to you, if you are human. When a child is abused or any person, it does become public and should be public, why would we want to… Read more »

    Excuses, Excuses..
    Guest
    Excuses, Excuses..

    Why are you people justifying why this father may of smacked his son…you may as well take it all the way and justify why a child is abused, tormented, tortured, and need I say more…Judge not what you do not know…if the anger is there, the smack will come out.. Thank goodness the majority of parents do not carry around such anger.

    A shandeh
    Guest
    A shandeh

    There is no excuse foe hitting a child like that, unless perhaps the child has crossed a dangerous street and the adult has to make a huge impression on the child to never do it again. I read that the adult in question hits often. He needs to be stopped. He might have been slugged around as a youth also, so maybe the cyle continues. It’s ridiculous. Stop him. Talk to him. Explain to him. If that doesn’t work, report him. I don’t know of any good coming from that kind of physical violence, no matter what the outer results… Read more »

    to number 56
    Guest
    to number 56

    I think that you are way off the mark on this one. What everyone is saying is that with the one slap for carrying on Shabbos by mistake the father will (chas vshalom) lose his son’s respect for father and for yiddishkeit in many more ways than one.

    no question...
    Guest
    no question...

    for sure that man is a looser, i feel bad for the kid, i am sure he love his tati, – even thou he’s a looser- and the way he will show his love to him is being like his tati, unfortunately…unles someone tell him that it’s ok to be better than his righteous tati…

    Chillul Shabbos
    Guest
    Chillul Shabbos

    This kid will likely be mechallel shabbos when he’s older!

    ....
    Guest
    ....

    let me just told u all something. i was once a kid and i know. what the father just did WILL NOT at all teach the child a lesoon, if anything he will be turned off and will think, i dont want to be part of these types of people. They will be turned off and will rebel. NEVER FORCE yiddishkeit on the child, all it will do is pressure them and have the opposite affect. I am not saying not to teach your kids yiidishkeit, chas vsholom! but do it with love and respect. Then and only then will… Read more »

    YOU DO NOT KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY
    Guest
    YOU DO NOT KNOW THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY

    And neither do I. but who are you to judge??!! and besides, do you think YOU are the perfect parent? I´m sure you´ve also made mistakes. And i don´t only mean smacking. Sometimes words are MUCH worse than a slap. Now how would you like it if someone who found out about what YOU did would write it all up in a completely biased article making you sound like your a mean and dangerous person? If you would REALLY care, instead of writing this op-ed you would go over to the father and clear the details, and if necessary, tell… Read more »

    Rabbeim
    Guest
    Rabbeim

    How dare you bring up the Rabeiim. Not a single person saw this discipline, they didn’t call their sons Shigetz, and they weren’t ANGRY. To compare this irresponsible act to the Rabbeiim is INSULTING to the highest degree. As for the story: Read what the guy wrote. The slapping across the face, while yelling that he was Mechalel Shabbos (not running across the street or fighting with a friend), all this in public – this is OUTRAGEOUS! This is not an article about the merits of Chinuch, and how and when to hit. It was about all the other details… Read more »

    Sick sick and sick!!
    Guest
    Sick sick and sick!!

    I am sick to hear that this sick father (term ‘father’ used extremely loosely only to connote blood relation) could do such a heinous act and since it was done in public I am sick that nobody scolded the man or called for the police. The person who wrote this article has a civil duty to call child services (the frum one) and have this family looked into. This cannot be allowed in our community, nor any community!! This act is illegal and horribly wrong in so many ways. Why do we just pretend like it doesn’t effect us? To… Read more »

    to number 2 from a BT
    Guest
    to number 2 from a BT

    Thanks a ton, this is really sick… See the difference is, most C”Hers would stand by and not necessarily do anything when they see this, I would hope that some BT’s (those who aren’t so brainwashed that they think the father is a tzadik for teaching his kid halacha, or would think (i need to call a rov to ask what to think) would either say something or better, take the guy behind a building and give him what he gave his son…. and yet the BT would be looked at as meshuggeh. go figure…. Oh, and I suppose this… Read more »

    Another crown heights father
    Guest
    Another crown heights father

    Wow, such a full length aryicle about such a small insignificant episode. Have you ever heard of a word called “chinuch”?!?! How do you ever expect this child to grow up to be a chassidishe bochur if we just let him nlow off shabbos with such abandon?!?! Plus, correct me if i’m wrong, but i dont think this father made the brocho of “boruch she’ptorani” yet. Maybe the father was just trying to save his own soul! Why cant anyone think of this open mindedly?!?! If we all just calmed down a bit and looked a little deeper then wjats… Read more »

    ...
    Guest
    ...

    A parent is allowed to discipline their child.
    However, all discipline should come from chesed.
    Sometimes a slap or patch is necessary.
    But to humiliate a child in public or to speak to a child in a negative way is never appropriate.

    THAT IS NOT AHAVAT ISRAEL !!
    Guest
    THAT IS NOT AHAVAT ISRAEL !!

    AND YOU DEAR WRITER, SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING ON THE SPOT!

    TAKE AWAY THE HAPPINESS FROM THE KIDS,
    AND YOU CAN LOSE THEM LATER!!!!

    BE KIND PARENTS!!! WORK HASHEM BESIMCHA 🙂

    To 68
    Guest
    To 68

    This act can not be called “chinuch”.
    It can be called “how to teach your child not to like shabbos”.

    Thank you
    Guest
    Thank you

    Thank you for bringing this issue to everyone’s attention. Awareness is the first step to solving problems. Obviously saying something to this father in private might help salvage this particular family, but bringing this issue to light could save many more families. If you see yourself in this story, please, please get help to deal with your anger. You’ll save yourself a lot of heartache down the road.

    #68 well written
    Guest
    #68 well written

    Its about time this was done!!
    We should all learn from this!

    yussle the L Muscle
    Guest
    yussle the L Muscle

    Many many years ago I was working in a home on crown st. At some point my boss and I looked out the window and saw a father beating his kid on the sidewalk.. It didn’t take more then 5 seconds, that I ran down the stairs, out the door and caught up with this father, and I confronted him, I said if he ever beat his kid again like that, I would break his legs…I don’t know if it helped or not, but at 18 yrs old, that is all I could think of to do. Over the years… Read more »

    To #2
    Guest
    To #2

    Unfortunately, I find that there is an equal distribution of mentally deficient people between ffb;s and bt’s. I am sure that you exemplify this. You can’t always blame the bt’s for the ills of Crown Heights.

    relativity
    Guest
    relativity

    Smacking a child is neither right or wrong. In fact, it is the sum total of the relationship that matters. By this I mean the 99.9 percent of the time that the child is (or is not, depending on your method of discipline) being hit that matters. Can your child approach you? Do you encourage your child to express his or her feelings? Communication is really the most important thing regardless of the method you choose for discipline

    To 23
    Guest
    To 23

    The frierdiker rebbe writes based on the alter rebbe that a father which slaps their child is “not chossid because a chossid doesn’t hit”.

    oooops to 31
    Guest
    oooops to 31

    I didn’t realize you meant rebbeim for real, I thought you meant teachers

    not sure what the halacha is, but
    Guest
    not sure what the halacha is, but

    have once heard that if one goes outside and realizes he is carrying, he should just continue walking without stopping and go inside someplace, without removing the object outside.as long as the object was not taken out of his pocket outside and he continued walking till inside again, it may not be a problem. is this correct? then the child should not have been stopped outside about the tissue…. if someone knows, please explain what the din really is. thanks.

    He Will Regret It
    Guest
    He Will Regret It

    Children grow up and often they don’t forget these things, especially if it happens often.
    The father will one day wish that he never had hands because of the horrible relations he will have with his children.
    This method has been proven to, ultimately backfire every single time.
    Never forget, those who slap will get slapped.

    Mixed emotions...anger and sadness 'win', however :-(
    Guest
    Mixed emotions...anger and sadness 'win', however :-(

    On the one hand, kol hakavod to the author for seeing and SAYING. Even if (‘just’) to us… Not all would follow up on passing, albeit disturbing, events and actually report them. On the other hand, I wish you could have found a way to get the information on who this man/child were, if not confront him yourself in the street. While some jump to say you should have yelled at the father, I feel it necessary to point out that too often when an abuser (as he may be) is attacked, they either simply yell/fight back causing a scene… Read more »

    to 79 and others...
    Guest
    to 79 and others...

    What are you talking about? if the child was 5 or even older he is NOT, repeat NOT obligated to do Mitzvohs,, so there is NO halacha here whatsoever.. Now the father has an obligation to Educate the child. If anyone here thinks that by smacking the child, especially in public, that this is education, then you must seriously go to classes, lectures, read books etc about how to educate your child. What this father did will C”V ONLY do harm. But I do agree with those that say that the author should have approached the father. For when you… Read more »

    #68
    Guest
    #68

    With ‘respect’, perhaps you title should have more appropriately been ‘another misguided crown heights father’. There is no doubt in my mind tha the Rebbe, and most forward-thinking, leading chinuch thinkers, and psychologists of our time would vehemently disagree with you. Thank G-d I am not your child. Really. I would be sporting more black and blue than the stormy skies right now, no doubt. Sometimes people are so ‘open-minded’ that their brains have fallen out. Itvis a fact that slapping a child (period, but especially across his face) in public is tantamount to a huge embarrassment band disgrace, does… Read more »

    no words
    Guest
    no words

    This whole world is messed up ….

    LESSON FOR LIFE
    Guest
    LESSON FOR LIFE

    I too as a young child had a similar experience. However, i was slapped in private not publicly which makes a great difference. Being hit publicly can have a traumatic lifelong effect on a child. This was the first and last time that my father ever hit me, and I can truthfully say that it instilled a sense of awareness in regards to being diligent about checking my pockets to this day (almost 55 years later). To assume that this father always hits his child is just that, an assumption. I look back at the experience, and actually enjoy relating… Read more »

    NEVER ACCEPTABLE
    Guest
    NEVER ACCEPTABLE

    Judging from the number of comments who support hitting, or are somehow defending the father, (about 15 comments) it seems that it was a good idea to publicise this and put the record straight……..

    It is NEVER acceptable to hit anyone.

    i know of  good therapst
    Guest
    i know of good therapst

    you mentioned therapy in your article i like where your going with that i am a therapist please call me I CAN HELP!

    #2 must of been a BT???
    Guest
    #2 must of been a BT???

    #2 You low life I am frum from birth but the worst child abuse offenders are the so called “gezher fathers and mothers” whose parents “PISHED iN NEVEL” and not much else to offer the legacy of chassidus. How dare you summise it was a BT. It is a fact that educated normal balanced BT families raise far better, normal, educated kids than your geszher kids. Ufortunately so many geszher kids have gone off the derech due to their psycological and emotional abuse to keep their kids up with their “peers” in school and yeshivah instead of allowing them to… Read more »

    WHAT DID THE ON LOOKER DO ?
    Guest
    WHAT DID THE ON LOOKER DO ?

    Your just as sick cause u didn’t face the father

    to #2 and #55
    Guest
    to #2 and #55

    ridiculous comments it’s easier to blame the BTs for everything. Take a look around you. Many gezha have serious problems. I have seen geszha whack their kids unnecessarily. Wake up buddy. To #34 how could you hear about it shabbos morning in shul if you were learning chassidus, davening and following laining.

    An Educator
    Guest
    An Educator

    Two rules to capital punishment: (i.e. physical punishment) 1) Never to embarrass (not in public etc.) 2) Never to call names- To call a child a shaigetz is to disown them. There is no road back from calling a child names. It tells the child that their bad behavior has made them lost to you, something which children pick up at a young age. A patch- almost every child needs one at some point in their life. When, where and how are the questions to be asked, and in public is not the answer. I am not judging the father-… Read more »

    BT?
    Guest
    BT?

    Please, that’s not nice…….the Rebbe brought us in with love, and let’s keep it that way……

    Meir-the Rebbes point of view
    Guest
    Meir-the Rebbes point of view

    B”H
    Anyone who supports hitting and would like to know the Rebbes view on the subject (against it) merely has to view the Jem video with Rabbi Lew from London in which he made an astonishing admission to the Rebbe in Yechidis and the Rebbe spoke to him about this topic

    re:83 from #68
    Guest
    re:83 from #68

    Yes, thank g-d you are not my child, I would never stand for such a disobedient and rebellious child. Also, regarding what you said about “modern day psychiatrists and rabbonim etc.” I could not agree with you more. Correct, that is what they would tell you, don’t hit, don’t discipline, just talk it out with the child, it will all work out. Now I invite you to take a look at todays youth and contrast them with the people of our generation, I font think I need to go into length, v’dal……

    abuse
    Guest
    abuse

    This is severe abuse ,this has NOTHING to do with discipline.
    if he can do this in public can you imagine what he does when noone is looking ,what is shocking that you did not say or do something .

    an angry mom
    Guest
    an angry mom

    was he a baal teshova?????

    THERAPY
    Guest
    THERAPY

    Like i always say, “Go to therapy; so your kids wont have to!”. – lyr

    It was me
    Guest
    It was me

    Everybody knows how to raise my kid. That’s comforting. Can you please also pay his tuition?

    94....
    Guest
    94....

    Rebellious? Disobedient? You know me?? Right…. I hope you know yourself though. That’s all that matters here. Know yourself, your strengths, weaknesses and capacity for love. Then know when, where and how much to use of them. As for ears, it seems my comment was not unfounded. If you LISTENed (or, read in this instance) not once did I Say or suggest there is never an instance where a ‘patch’ my be necessary, but, regardless of your assumption that this is simply modern madness; smacking should be the EXCEPTION to th rule, and not vice versa. In fact, it shows… Read more »

    To #88
    Guest
    To #88

    First of all the word is geza (or by some with a Nevel accent Gezha) which means root or someone whose roots in Lubavitch goes back for a number of generations. Yes. it was very foolish for someone to say that this was a BT however what the person might have been saying was that a knowledgeable father, whether geza or BT would have known that for a child to carry a tissue on Shabbes especially by accident, is not really the worst aveira as he is before Bar Mitzva, and in a karmelis. In such a situation the fathers… Read more »

    to #68
    Guest
    to #68

    Let me get this straight. You are calling this an insignificant happening. Sorry, but I think your reaction is scary. Read the original comment again. There is no way that was insignificant, at least not to compassionate adults who understand the far reaching effects of such excessive anger, volume of voice, and physical action. You, sir or madam, and your beliefs, are in serious question. You need guidance. Go to a rabbi who understands these issues, not one who agrees with your philosophy, PLEASE.

    kol hakavod ler' asman!
    Guest
    kol hakavod ler' asman!

    i am not so sure that all the commentators here know the first thing about chinuch! but that doesn’t stop them from criticizing a father trying to educate his son. what do you know, maybe the son also got a bad mark in school, maybe the son was chutzpadig. maybe the son didn’t daven nicely in 770, which certainly DOES merit a slap sometimes, and in public, which makes the message stronger, and other children can also see and learn (mimenu yiru vechein yasu). these complainers are probably the same people that complain when chasidishe bochurim from kvutze resort to… Read more »

    Wired
    Guest
    Wired

    Why did he smack da kid is he crazy?!&in public unbelivable

    To #98
    Guest
    To #98

    It was you who used tuition to defend the ugly behavior you put upon your own child. It is you who does not have a clue as to the depth of harm you do in the name of money values. If you are stressed about tuition to the point of ugly behavior toward your own kindt, then you would be better off davening until your heart bleeds for your son. You would be better off trying to see things from his point of view. He is a small child. He is not perfect. He needs a Tati who shows love… Read more »

    To #68
    Guest
    To #68

    Of all the comments I’ve read here, yours upsets me the most. Please have a serious conversation with a real chossid. If you ever want to show you are indeed a person who actually is a Jew, the kind you believe you should be, then PLEASE. Talk to a real chossid fast. You are so misguided, and you sound so heartless. And a real chossid is neither misguided nor heartless. Do not continue your scary thinking in the name of Hashem.

    Where are the Rebbeim?
    Guest
    Where are the Rebbeim?

    Abuse is a community problem. The “Rabbis” in charge of the community are not doing their jobs. If they continue to refuse to do their jobs, they should be ignored and the authorities should be called in.

    to #1
    Guest
    to #1

    Umm.. U dnt tell a father off INFRONT of his son..U bring them to the side..

    transposition after, and legitimity of action?
    Guest
    transposition after, and legitimity of action?

    and if the child was not his child, what would be his reaction?
    and if the child was an adult, his father, his brother in law, his son in law?
    Hashem gives us situations in order for us to think how to deal, i suggest to transpose by transfigure this situation and discuss this issue to the next generation of fathers, to my class about it..

    If one person reading this...
    Guest
    If one person reading this...

    … will think twice about hitting his kids in public then this article is worth it…

    Under 13 is only chinuch so no big deal even if the kid did carry on shabbos, teach with love.

    The father should have told his son ok, we’ll keep walking till we get home and theres no issur as carrying hits only if you stop…

    not only is the father a boor but also ignorant, very sad/ Hasehm is disappointed in this man and we have obligation to tell him if he will listen…

    12 yr old
    Guest
    12 yr old

    So sad I wish I can be there for that poor boy..

    the worst part
    Guest
    the worst part

    The worst part is that the father called him “you sheigitz”- the self image he instantly gave his son will ring in his ears far longer than the sting of the slap. Sad. He basically told his child “grow up to be one!”

    Don't compare
    Guest
    Don't compare

    the most unfortunate thing educators do is to compare this generation with past generations. What was acceptable then is not acceptable now, their struggles are not ours and vice-versa.

    our shul here in CH
    Guest
    our shul here in CH

    has a member there who constantly abuses his only son , slapping him, pinching him for talking , not following etc .this is despicable especially as the kid is only coping his father who is notorious for talking and even cursing in shul! This ain’t chinuch, but abuse! no hope for this poor kid….He ganna grow up to be as screwed up as his father!!

    oximoron BT
    Guest
    oximoron BT

    a BTwould have beaten the father!

    Perhaps someone can explain....
    Guest
    Perhaps someone can explain....

    Would someone care to explain the story of the Rebbe Rashab slapping the Frierdiker Rebbe for not making a Bracha on his Tzitzis, despite the fact that he already made the Bracha?

    As a side note, I think that this father in the op-ed IS the reason why kids go “off the derech”.

    What is a good parent?
    Guest
    What is a good parent?

    Sick people! Need intervention! Raging parents are the problem! Children are children! Sick people use doctors! Get a doctor ASAP! If you do not want a doctor, consult with a reputable and respected leader of honor and intelligence! Do something before your child smacks you and screams at you so hard you will feel what he felt! Will you have deserved it? Did he deserve it? Just because you have the title of parent, that does not make you a good one! You are supposed to be the nurturer, the protector! He is a small child doing his best at… Read more »

    To those who defend the cruel father....
    Guest
    To those who defend the cruel father....

    Sit down. Close your eyes in a quiet place. Take a deep breath. Imagine a good father. How does he speak to his kjinderlach? How does he express his affection? DOES he express affection? How does he handle his son when the child makes a mistake? Does he keep in mind that the child is young and is trying to do the right thing? Does he keep in mind that the child might be one who has a tendency to forget, but not on purpose? Does he smack the child and scream at him in public? At home? Does he… Read more »

    Change agent needed
    Guest
    Change agent needed

    So this father is notorious for swearing in shul? And he behaves in other less than appropriate ways there? And no one says anything? How come? And he has been seen treating his son violently at other times? No one says anything? Is this common in Cabad circles? How come? Really, how come? Clearly the father has serious problems that spread from home to shul to outside the shul. Clearly the problems do not affect only himself. I feel sorry for his family. I hope that someone appropriate steps in and does some good for him and his family. Something… Read more »

    to number 88
    Guest
    to number 88

    YOU ARE AMAZING THANK YOU

    It's not always what it seems to be...
    Guest
    It's not always what it seems to be...

    It’s interesting that this morning I was learning Hemchech Ayin Beis chap. 224 in Parshas Vayeira, where he analyzes the difference between: a) the father who has to use the “levush” of gevura to conceal and contract the hashpa-ah he conveys to his son, so that his son may be able to receive it—in which case the gevura is not true gevura, merely a conduit through which the fatherly love flows, b) the father who gets really angry at his son who either “falls down or soils himself”, in which case it is “gevura mamash”, however the cause of the… Read more »

    am i the only one?
    Guest
    am i the only one?

    What bothers me more than the smack is the fact that the father called his son a “shaigetz”. for real?? is that what you want him to become?!?! even if the father decided its not a mistake because he warned him etc. Its absolutely unacceptable! Its sad and as many others said – if this is what he gets in public i cringe thinking about what its like at home! as for the subject of hitting, its a very controversial topic. Claiming the Rebbaim hit doesnt give anyone any right. The Rabbaim didnt hit out of anger, but rather Chinuch.… Read more »

    PRESUMTIOUS?? MOI?
    Guest
    PRESUMTIOUS?? MOI?

    # people spell gezha phonetically as gezher, the Z and H said together. In any event, what a load of waffle. It was a response to a very clear statement to the moron in #2 who clearly sees himself head and shoulders about “BT”. If he wasn’t why not assume the brainless father as being a gezher father.
    THAT’S THE POINT

    to number 87
    Guest
    to number 87

    what is the point of saying your a therapist if you don’t give any contact details you wasting time and space this is a case of agmas nefesh not something to joke about

    and to summ all this up
    Guest
    and to summ all this up

    our community needs education how to educate.
    we are the best but may be…it is time to start learning
    and not just teaching everyone else.

    to #31
    Guest
    to #31

    Not always a patch means ‘abusive’. I was raised with patches (normal ones, more like symbolic) and im normal and never thought anyone was making something wrong because i knew it was done with love. Maybe at the age of 7 i didnt really realise but now i know that it was for my own good. But i agree that it NEVER should be done in public and for such a stupid thing (not that carrying on shabbos is stupid but i mean come on hes just 5 theres also a way to explain it with words instead of using… Read more »

    Jk Rav
    Guest
    Jk Rav

    The rebbeim said a chassid doesn’t hit. Also the hit is torah issur and carrying in Carmelis and drabanan and this was shogeg and kids are exempt in Mitzvos so the father is an am haaretZ and Rasha. I saw a
    Father hit his kid in shul or running around but kids belong in parks not Shuls.

    To #2 & #55
    Guest
    To #2 & #55

    Omg that is sick So what is the point of being BT if people look at you like that with such stereotypes, i would ask at this point. Im A doughter of a BT and you know what? Im absolutely proud of it and not only, were a normal, warm, lubavitcher family, and our situation is much better that other FFBs families. But guess what, thats not even the point because were all jews and seriously like who cares when did u start to be frum. As long as we love each other as one big family. Because ahavas isroel… Read more »

    The mother
    Guest
    The mother

    Somewhere in this tragic scenario, there (presumably) is a mother. . . . if , by some miracle, she has read all that has been written about the poor child, and recognises, beyond a doubt, that this is her husband that is being spoken about here, then all I say is PLEASE PLEASE , as a mother , if you are aware of how this man is treating your child, then GET UP and do something about it NOW, beforw its too late; talk to people, get help, do SOMETHING . . . . look how many people are out… Read more »

    Some advice for the parent
    Guest
    Some advice for the parent

    I think there are some wonderful advice on here like to mother and person that saw it like following to the house #81. Yes therapy is good too as suggested – but therapy may not always be effective it’s good while being there – because the person has accountability but when it ends – it doesn’t always last. A person who acts like this most probably needs to heal from their past – may likely need medication with therapy to make different associations to one’s present and past. It’s very painful to witness this. If the person that did it… Read more »

    For #68 and 98-
    Guest
    For #68 and 98-

    You are very misguided. Ask a true Chossid. You have real problems. Ask a true Chossid. Your behavior is cruel, mean, unloving, irresponsible, and more. You can stick with your so-called beliefs all you want. I, however, don’t even think they qualify as beliefs. Rather, they qualify as pathetic actions of people who do not know how horrible and far reaching that kind of abuse (yes, abuse) is. Again, ask a true Chossid. Or if you can get very real and honest with your neshama, ask your own self. Are you so far gone that your own real neshama can… Read more »

    Thank you for raising awareness
    Guest
    Thank you for raising awareness

    The first time I heard about physical abuse in our community was when finishing high school, a classmate confided in me that her father (a shliach btw) and mother repeatedly beat her since she was young. She always felt too scared to tell anyone, and felt very alone. It bears discussing, and as community members, I do think that we should be looking out for each other, from a perspective of helping…especially when its innocent kids at risk.

    what the heck
    Guest
    what the heck

    who cares if he warned him or not even 100 times doesnt matter u dont hit son this is what goes thru his head,”i just got slapped for doing something against torah so why do it if it just got me in trouble he must have been a real “chasideshe” guy

    Let's
    Guest
    Let's

    . Let’s open up this topic to the larger community. Let’s involve respected leaders of the community. I assume they would get involved, since they are invested in the future of Lubavitch. And I am assuming they are invested in a healthy and righteous future of the same. There can be schliach all over the world, but if we do not attend to the quality of our behavior with our own children, what is it all for? It all goes down the tubes, because our future IS our children! And I for one am not interested in a future with… Read more »

    cannot believe...
    Guest
    cannot believe...

    #102…so basically you are saying that if people slapped theiir children more, Moshiach will come? I thought I heard it all, but that definitely has to be the dumbest thing ever. Oh, and not daavening nicely in 770 merits a SLAP? I’ll tell you something, if I slapped my boys for not daavening, I would be lucky if they ever daavened when they became teenagers. I question the future of Crown Heights if people are going to think that ‘talking the talk’ is going to be the end all….that will not work anymore. Forget the Chassidishkeit…I know, throw me out… Read more »

    #68
    Guest
    #68

    Whats wrong with you!!!
    Did you think before you put that comment up?!

    #2 WHERE WERE U BROUGHT UP!?
    Guest
    #2 WHERE WERE U BROUGHT UP!?

    Just sickening to read your comment!

    preparation.
    Guest
    preparation.

    It was chinuch. He was preparing him for some of the teachers in our boys’ schools and mesiftas.

    disconnect
    Guest
    disconnect

    This is a child who, at that moment, probably lost interest in Yiddishkeit. It will take many years however to show outwardly. Then the parents will wonder what went wrong.

    NEVER
    Guest
    NEVER

    There is an article titled NEVER, written by Rabbi Binyomin Ginsberg. I wish people would read it and follow it. It is a crime for such behavior and I hope that this father (and son) get the help they so desperately need.

    Control Temper
    Guest
    Control Temper

    The father should control his temper and have a time out for himself before getting a hold of his son; he’ll hate him for the rest of his life!

    Why does a child have to be called a shagaitz
    Guest
    Why does a child have to be called a shagaitz

    Bad enough that the father hit the child but to call a six year old a shagaitz, poor boy he was hit phisically and verbally, may be the man should write and tell us his side of the story why he reacted the way he did and say sorry to his child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! May be his father did the same to him?

    to#7, 8, & 13
    Guest
    to#7, 8, & 13

    Number 7 & 8 you are right on target. and 13 you are DEAD WRONG! an ogre like that should be publicized so that anyone and everyone can keep their eyes open should they see this animal again mistreating his child to actually SPEAK UP and possibly warn him that he will be reported to child welfare if he keeps this up. I know someone who grew up with a father like that and althought they actually did remain frum, they were non the less emotionally scard for life. this created damage in the marriage and general disposition of this… Read more »

    a great parenting book
    Guest
    a great parenting book

    there’s a really great parenting book called “the natural child” parenting from the heart by Jan hunt
    You can get on amazon…to help you understand your child from child’s perspective and treat them with more respect. She also has a website called naturalchild.org has great articles on – worth reading.
    Another really good book is playful parenting by lawrence cohen…

    Abusive Fathers Cause Hurricanes
    Guest
    Abusive Fathers Cause Hurricanes

    Does anyone think it is a coincidence that two days after this kid got hit and a oped had to be written about it, the worst hurricane since the rayatz came to the US hit kan tzivah.

    Abusive fathers don’t only destry their own family’s but all of klal yisroel.

    Dont judge
    Guest
    Dont judge

    Wow, Such over reactors. Get over it, and stop gossiping

    ASSUMING THAT COMMENT #98 WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY THE PERSON WHO HURT THE CHILD
    Guest
    ASSUMING THAT COMMENT #98 WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN BY THE PERSON WHO HURT THE CHILD

    “It was me
    Everybody knows how to raise my kid. That’s comforting. Can you please also pay his tuition?” CORRECTION: EVERYBODY, INCLUDING A 12-YEAR OLD, KNOWS HOW NOT TO RAISE YOUR KID. THAT SHOULD BE DISCOMFORTING, SHOULDN’T IT? AND YES, I WOULD PAY 10% OF HIS TUITION IF THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR HANDS AND UNKIND WORDS TO YOURSELF.
    [email protected]

    A M
    Guest
    A M

    Why don’t you crown heitzers get jobs and worry about your own lives for once. If you’d really care you’d have said something then and there but you didn’t. Now you want to start a whole debate and offer parenting advice? Mind your own business

    How DARE he hit his child!!!
    Guest
    How DARE he hit his child!!!

    The father needs to be locked up!

    #1 is RIGHT
    Guest
    #1 is RIGHT

    #1 said it all…

    to #21
    Guest
    to #21

    just stam, in a sicha in chelek yud zayin (i think), the rebbe explains how since the son is the hechsher mitzva of chinuch for the father, it becomes a chiyuv on the son as well

    to #3
    Guest
    to #3

    Lubavitch, Yeshivish, Chassidic, Reform, what’s the difference? Yidden and mentchen is what matters.

     U. Bubby
    Guest
    U. Bubby

    European parents used a pach to discipline kids. They also treated tnem with love . It balanced out. I remember getting a big beating when i and brother destroyed my mother’slukshin that was 4 hours work. How? Bychasing around and tipping the table. Every time we misbehaved she’d remind us and warned us to calm down””remember that beating!”.

    X