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Monday, 19 Heshvan, 5782
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The Problem With Dor Yeshorim

Genetics activist Sarah Dworcan says singles tested by the Dor Yeshorim organization are not "safely assured." Full Story

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#129
December 22, 2016 8:22 pm

Stupid comment. Do you look for cars when crossing the road or do you look straight ahead and trust Hashem won’t let you get run over?

Everyone
December 22, 2016 12:28 am

In the end whether a match or not Hashem controls what happens

If good is good, isn't better better?
December 12, 2016 9:42 pm

Rabbi Sholom Ber Vishedsky, a”h used to say something like this (I don’t remember the exact words, but this was certainly the intent) — If good is good, isn’t better better? I think the vast majority of those expressing an opinion (and I read all of them up to 126) agree that DY prevented much heart ache. But a large majority agree that there is more that can be done. Someone asked what will happen if one side of a match was tested by one organization and the other was tested by the other. I guess currently the only solutions… Read more »

#98 is correct
December 12, 2016 6:26 pm

the fact of the matter is, if from now on ppl would be required to reveal if they are carriers, as suggested in this article, by going the testing alone, shidduchim would become even more complicated then they already are, DY approach of concealing the results is probably the most realistic in our community, The point that there are more testing that can be done, is a VERY valid one, and should be addressed by DY, as we have yet to hear from them why they don’t test for these, or if they will start testing for them. The bashing… Read more »

To #77
December 12, 2016 12:40 pm

On their website first disease listed is 3 diseases in one, that makes total on standard 9. Anyway of course there is many more tests available but point is they test for the ones approved by halachic leaders. Because a test is out there doesn’t mean we should test for it. more diseases tested for = more shidduchim would be nixed. And who are we to determine which potential life should be avoided or is not worth living ch”v? We can never shield ourselves from all ills completely. We need to leave certain ethical questions for the rabanim, and DY… Read more »

Can you give us more info.
December 12, 2016 9:08 am

On upcoming event in CH – will any Dr.s or Rabbonim speak

Revamp attitude to shidduchim
December 12, 2016 3:56 am

Why on earth are there these stigmas in shidduchim? We are so out of date with reality in this parsha, it’s shocking. The idea that a person would feel bad by having certain genetic materials in her makeup, is just preposterous. Parents, teach your child, enlighten them, we are created by G-d. Each and every part of our anatomy, genetic makeup, DNA, is all from Him, and thus, it’s meant to be a part of you.

Thank you
December 11, 2016 12:41 pm

Thanks to DY we know about these problems thanks to this article we know much more then we did before.

Agree mostly
December 11, 2016 1:12 am

I mostly agree with you except the part that you believe it is better not to be tested at all than to do Dor Yeshorim. To be fair, you only state that that is your opinion. that is not my opinion.

Compatibility for shidduchim
December 10, 2016 9:33 pm

Someone might be worried about being turned down for a shidduch because of being a carrier for a generic disorder therefore a third party such as DY is useful to compare the results of both parties of a shidduch to see if they are both carriers. However, since DY does not test for a lot of disorders, then maybe DY should test fit more disorders or the place that treats for more, should do d what DY does. Does someone have to tell a prospective shidduch that they are carriers?

Maybe Collive Should Let DY Have a Forum As Well
December 10, 2016 9:29 pm

To Collive editors: Most new sources have writers research a subject and write an article that includes various perspectives of a story rather than publicizing one side of a story. Given how important and emotionally-charged this subject is, how about researching and presenting your findings or at least let DY respond.

Great but Biased artickle
December 10, 2016 9:16 pm

I have only one comment re: this important article: It states “We are working to get the facts straight” (with dor yeshurim etc, I imagine).

Now, How can a logical person reading this article come to any conclusion if we did NOT reach out (enough) or verified if they can perhaps explain their policies & reasoning’s.

Am I asking such a complicated question ?

Wow
December 10, 2016 8:57 pm

Wow The ignorance on this forum is astounding.Do people actually have an education??

OH MY
December 10, 2016 8:42 pm

“Misleading innocent people is wrong. Allowing young couples to believe that they are genetically compatible is wrong.”

Actually to tell someone they have problems, but could still get married and work out medical and halachik reasons afterwards, are hairraising to say the least.

Go SML!
December 10, 2016 8:06 pm

So proud of the work you and Yossi are doing. BH baby eli is bringing so much light and awareness to such an important topic. I too did DY before dating my now husband and found we were compatible. Okay great! Baby 1 came, healthy as can be, bh. When i found out there were TONS more common ahskenazic and sephardic (i am both) diseases that can be tested for, i was shocked!! But what about DY?! I thought it tested for all of them!! Apparently not. I was dumbfounded, and offered praise to hashem that i did not find… Read more »

Tell them?
December 10, 2016 3:57 pm

Why do you even have to tell DY that you were tested elsewhere? How would they even know

Upcoming Jnetic event
December 9, 2016 3:23 pm

Jnetic will be having a talk here in CH on january 9th.
More info on they’re website

M.Sc. Biology.
December 9, 2016 3:02 pm

Hi David, my name is Shlomo. A frum jew, Master in Developmental Biologyfrom Hebrew U. In Jerusalem, and I agree completely with you.
Dor Yeshorim is a fraud ment only for ffb that are likely “ignorants” in every medical thing.

Thank you soon much!
December 9, 2016 2:18 pm

Thank you thank you thank you! We had NO idea and we have children entering the shidduch pasha!

Read Carefully
December 9, 2016 12:00 pm

For those of you criticizing the article because you think she is advertising herself, JScreen and Jnetics are 2 different things. Please pay attention before you accuse the author of being self serving. She is making people aware of a flawed system that many people just rely on blindly.

Dr. Stan Ress
December 9, 2016 11:05 am

Very important for anyone counseling young couples to know about. The science of genetic testing is rapidly expanding with new mutations, and techniques to detect them, being described all the time.

Doesn't Make sense
December 9, 2016 9:28 am

1) what’s the cost of testing more diseases? The cost to dor yesharim, and the added cost to people. For some, the cost is already high. 2) if Dor Yeshorim was a medical organization they would be required to let each person know the results which would negative the whole process. The idea is nobody knows, and there is no stigma. If you’re interested in knowing the results go to a doctor. 3) “In truth, I believe it is better not to do genetic testing than to be tested through Dor Yeshorim. “ That’s like saying it’s better not take… Read more »

I agree with Mrs. Dwarkin
December 9, 2016 9:21 am

Misleading innocent people is wrong. Allowing young couples to believe that they are genetically compatible is wrong. Full disclosure is imperative. Bottom line: There are 39 known Ashkenazi genetic diseases. Dor Yeshorim tests for 7 and one has to know to request the second panel ( I didn’t, did u? ) which bring it to 14. Her point is: there are 25 Ashkenazi diseases which they DO NOT test for; the problem is, is that they don’t tell you, they do not disclose this information! Please explain why you think it’s ok for them not to disclose this info? They… Read more »

Holistic Health Consultant
December 9, 2016 8:41 am

As a health educator, I am very interested in this, as it is relevant to many of my clients. I will definitely be following up to find out more about these resources. I was curious to find out how the testing available from 23andme measures up. The website for this product has a good chart outlining the various Jewish genetic diseases that can be tested for. https://www.23andme.com/dna-health-ancestry/

Improvements necessary
December 9, 2016 8:22 am

It’s interesting that things may have changed for the worse. When we went through Dor Yesharim we were tested for the second panel at no additional charge, offered free counseling even if we were a compatible match, and it was thoroughly explained which diseases were tested for and why they were deemed life threatening and others were not. I agree that more variants should be tested for, and the stigma regarding carrier status should end, but many people may still just want to know compatibility status. Unfortunately insurance won’t cover testing unless results are offered to the patient. Maybe we… Read more »

No one will be compatible with 106 tests!!!
December 9, 2016 7:29 am

You say that there are 39 diseases to test for, yet you test for 106???? How will anyone ever be compatible.
There is a limit, we do need to trust in Hashem

Sara, why is JScreen better?
December 9, 2016 5:44 am

You wrote ” I believe it is better not to do genetic testing than to be tested through Dor Yeshorim. That way, at least people do not have a false sense of security that they have been “comprehensively genetically tested.”” I just checked JScreen’s website and it looks like they also give “a false sense of security” this is copied from their site “Unfortunately, no genetic test is perfect and no screening test can eliminate all of your risk. A person can test negative for any of the disease genes and yet still be a carrier. JScreen’s tests, however, are… Read more »

Why is JScreen better?
December 9, 2016 5:39 am

Unfortunately, no genetic test is perfect and no screening test can eliminate all of your risk. A person can test negative for any of the disease genes and yet still be a carrier. JScreen’s tests, however, are designed specifically to reduce your risk.

What if you find out that you are a carrier?
December 9, 2016 5:33 am

If one of the prospective couple is a carrier, and they don’t have Dor Yeshorim to confirm compatibility, on which date do you suggest s/he discloses the fact?
Girl is a carrier, Boy is not a carrier. Boy says “I don’t want my children to be carriers. I’ll drop this suggestion and marry a girl who isn’t a carrier for any genetic diseases”.
And the shidduch crises gets worse!

***INFOMERCIAL*** (pretending to be about spreading awareness)
December 9, 2016 5:31 am

Hello – this is a big advertising stunt. There is a reason Dor Yesharim does NOT give you the results. It is call Psak Halacha! Dor Yesharim worked with leading Rabbonimto alleviate the devastating Tay Sachs disease. They added other diseases carried by a recessive gene (meaning if only one parent is a carrier, the children will not be affected, but if both are carriers, their children R”L have a 25% chance of having the full blown fatal disease, and 50% will be carriers. Then there are diseases where a child can be inflicted if just one parent is a… Read more »

ridiculous
December 9, 2016 4:58 am

This is ridiculous. Your logic is ”its better not to know about 7 diseases if i dont know about all 40”. You would never apply this logic to any other situation. Even worse, you’re founding an organizaton discouraging people from using existing genetic testing because you perosonally dont want to know about 14 risks if you dont know about all of them? There are many more risks than that my friend. You can never know about all of them. Thats not a reason to know about none of them.

Well done Sarah Malka and Yossi
December 9, 2016 4:51 am

I think that Sarah has written a worthwhile article and she is in no way negating what DY does for the communities around the world but the fact remains that there are a lot more genetic disease that we as Ashkenazi Jews are prone to that are not tested for. I also do not agree with them not revealing the results of what a person might be a carrier of. I am a carrier of Taysachs and BH my husband is not. We did not go through DY as it was not an option and I am much happier knowing… Read more »

The Elephant in the Roomm
December 9, 2016 4:32 am

One of the reasons why the anonymous matching is necessary is the reality that a known carrier will have a MUCH more difficult time getting a shidduch in some communities. Preaching that it doesn’t matter is futile and young people will be stigmatized. It is one thing to choose to be a martyr for the cause. Not everyone wants to or can.

Remember, it's still just hishtadlus
December 9, 2016 1:59 am

Thank you for this informative article. I would like to point out, however, that even the most extensive testing does not guarantee that one will not ch”v have a child with a congenital disease. Doctors still do not know everything, and Hashem is still the One Who makes the decisions. Of course, we need to make our hishtadlus al pi derech hateva, and it may very well be advisable to put in the extra hishtadlus mentioned in the article. But whichever testing procedure you decide to use, remember that human beings will never be totally in control. Otherwise, you are… Read more »

Kol HaKavod!
December 9, 2016 12:37 am

My husband and I got tested 19 years ago and after doing some research into Dor Yesharim and deciding they were not doing comprehensive testing and that we wanted our results, we decided to go to a geneticist instead. You are doing important work!

Have you reached out to Dor Yeshorim?
December 9, 2016 12:22 am

Have you joined forces with them? Seems that this would be something that they, too, would want to do.

I'm 34
December 9, 2016 12:16 am

To: 51That’s why i don’t take penicillin .to: 60 and 84 insensitive comment?so all those children that had problems in the past or who past because of this genetic testing, was not meant by hashem?meaning today no children die from genetic deases or any dease for that matter….to 75: all the childless couples that DOR YESHURIM WAS TESTED BY, how come they don’t have children?

oy. this article could have been written much, much better
December 9, 2016 12:13 am

This is a very important article informing that public that Dor Yeshorim testing is limited. However, this could have been brought out without bashing Dor Yesharim. The fact is, Dor Yesharim is a grass roots organization that was started by one man who tried to help. The fact that there is even routine testing, such as Dor Yesharim provides, already opens the door to discussion about genetics and testing. They have done a huge service. This article could have been written outlining the limitations of Dor Yesharim without bashing them. At the end of the day, it’s a free world.… Read more »

Problem with testing?
December 8, 2016 11:41 pm

I worry that the trend to ‘test for everything’ leads to the problem of refusing too many potential matches. I think the object of dy is to select the worst and commonest diseases, to try and minimize the number of people who might be deemed genetically ‘incompatible’. Obviously, the more diseases we include, the greater the number of people who will not be matches. At what point do we begin to undermine the shiddach scene? I know that for the individual living with a suffering child, they wish that even the most obscure test had been done, but for the… Read more »

To 80
December 8, 2016 11:00 pm

Great Q!
I guess they are automatically not compatible :0

Great Work
December 8, 2016 10:54 pm

I grew up in Australia where a Jewish philanthropist fully funds the genetic testing to all Jewish Students in High school and university. We had a cheek swab and results were sent out a few weeks later. They had genetic counsellors during testing and would also call you if you were a carrier and offer additional counselling. Again this was absolutely free and they tested about 10 prominent ashkenazi diseases. I participated in the testing in school and we were instructed that if we thought we would go down the shidduch pathway NOT to do this test as DY won’t… Read more »

Mt Sinai
December 8, 2016 10:49 pm

I told this to so many people who refused to listen to me. Any major hospital, like Mt Sinai in NY will test for hundreds and it’s free under insurance and if you don’t have insurance they told me they’ll charge very minimal.

MO Medical Professional
December 8, 2016 10:22 pm

1. DY only works in a setting of “blind dates”. People who meet members of the opposite gender in college, camp, NCSY or (horrors!) coed high schools are not going to choose who to befriend based on the individual’s status as a carrier. Knowing the status of one’s longtime boy/girlfriend after a strong emotional attachment exists falls in the category of “Yosif daat yosif machov”. No, I do not have a better alternative al regel achat, I am simply explaining why DY is not practical in MO circles. 2. It is a violation of one’s rights to conceal medical records… Read more »

nice advertising
December 8, 2016 10:13 pm

you r simply advertising your company, while damaging the good work of doryeshorim. they have removed at least one major disease from our community. thank them, then and only then work with them to improve the situation. Your present approach may cause more damage to both cause’s!!!

Thank you!!!
December 8, 2016 10:04 pm

Thank you so much for writing this article. My wife and I had our own terrible experience with dor yeshorim. We are both carriers for one of the tested diseases. Not to get into the details, but at one point during the process they refused to tell us if we were compatible or not even though they were looking at our results and saw that we were both carriers. Only after weeks of pleading did they begrudgingly release our results. They are more worried about their “anonymity” than g-d forbid have a child born with one of these terrible diseases.… Read more »

Why do some people prefer ignorance?
December 8, 2016 10:02 pm

I don’t consider this article bashing Dor Yesharim. I did Dor Yesharim many many years ago, but guess what? My Chasan did not – so once we were ready to have a family we did all the tests and Baruch HaShem all was ok and we had healthy children. My sibling did Dor Yesharim as did their chasans and again fortunately had healthy children. So I have no agenda against Dor Yesharim. There is a time and place for Dor Ysharim, however, I never understood why one would not want to take advantage of medical advancements and get tested for… Read more »

To #34
December 8, 2016 9:47 pm

How did your ancestors survive?? Well go and learn your history. It was a perfectly normal thing in the olden days for kids to… Um… Die….because of all these preventable deceases

For her personal gain?
December 8, 2016 9:25 pm

For those saying that this article is to promote herself- please think about how ridiculous that is- what does Sarah have to gain? She is one of the mothers who will spend the rest of her life worrying about her son and hoping to keep him healthy each and every day. instead of her just accepting her situation and figuring out what she personally needs to do, she has chosen to help others so that they don’t get into the same situation as her. Thank you Sarah for opening this conversation in our community, hopefully this will be the start… Read more »

Moshe
December 8, 2016 9:17 pm

To#19 A false sense of security not doing all the tests that are claiming should be done that’s pretty messed up. My understanding what they’re trying to say is if they did all the proper testing that they are recommending they wouldn’t be in this situation

Positive approach
December 8, 2016 7:50 pm

It is amazing that instead of wallowing in your pain you put the energy into something good
At the same time you do not need to speak with such negativity of those who have done good in our community
True they can be better
But they also are doing good as well
It’s the tone that is bothersome
Perhaps working with them instead of against them will bring positive results for us all

Question
December 8, 2016 7:46 pm

So lets jst say a boy does DY and a girl does Jtesting.
What happens then

Many important points
December 8, 2016 7:35 pm

To Sara- I’m sorry for what you have been through, truly. Dor Yesharim- the organization has done a lot of good and was and is appropriate still mostly for communities where there is so much stigma that basically that is the only thing that can be used BUT- yes there is more to test for and each result gives people a very complicated dilemma. Many people would have a lot of trouble figuring out what to do, even when the complexities are explained properly. There are various medical ethics, halachic, and personal values factors involved, and most people don’t want… Read more »

Education comes in a positive way, especially when its a org who saved so many families
December 8, 2016 6:56 pm

First, Dor Yeshorim protects against the most common diseases found by ashkenazim, it cuts down the chances of diseases by lets say 90 percent, and have most certainly saved thousands of jewish families from having kids with the most common ashkenazi genetic diseases, let’s not think how we would be stay todays date without DY. Secondary, our family have so much help from Dor Yeshorim when one of my family had given birth to a child with a genetic disease (happens to be that it was a new invented test at that time, and therefore not tested in time of… Read more »

To 63
December 8, 2016 6:19 pm

Get your facts straight!
I just checked and Dor Yeshorim write it on their own website. They test for 7 diseases. They test for 3 mutations of Tay-Sachs so total 7 diseases not 9 or 10 diseases as you are preaching. Does it really matter though? There are still a total of 39 according to professional geneticists (not 9).

To #68
December 8, 2016 6:11 pm

It’s almost guaranteed that you are a carrier for something. However, it has no effect on you or your children unless you marry someone with the same mutation. That’s why premarital testing/counseling is important. But the foolish stigma on carrier status is why DY feels they need to operate in secrecy. It’s an ignorant and outdated philosophy. Nobody objects to the concept of genetic testing, just the lack of transparency of DY.

To #34
December 8, 2016 6:09 pm

The people who BH weren’t carriers or were “compatible” by hashgocha protis became our grandparents and great a grandparents. Those who weren’t so lucky may never have become grandparents at all…..so we only ever hear about the ones who were ok and “managed without all these new things…”

Useless
December 8, 2016 5:57 pm

DY twice told me they do not have my number in the system. Each time I paid to be retested and finally was told that I am dead. If that is not incompetence then what is. I know others who have had such issues.
If they can not keep basic records straight how can I trust them to say if I am compatible with someone or not.

Physician
December 8, 2016 5:25 pm

Exceptionally important article. Thank you for appropriately educating your community. Keep up the good work!

To #1 re: not offering a better solution
December 8, 2016 4:27 pm

The alternative is clearly listed – get genetically tested through medical professionals.

# 1
December 8, 2016 4:11 pm

The article suggests you can use a more comprehensive test such as what’s offered by jscreen.org

I Agree
December 8, 2016 4:04 pm

People are better off knowing the results and getting genetic counseling. Time for a new system that works with insurance with comprehensive testing without the expensive costs.

Bubbe
December 8, 2016 4:01 pm

I think a number of people are missing the point. Sarah is not bashing DY, she is showing how limited their testing is, and that Jscreen is more comprehensive and cheaper. Her motivation is to educate others about constructive genetic testing.

I disagree.
December 8, 2016 3:47 pm

I would rather not marry a carrier for a genetic disease. Thanks to dor yeshorim I don’t think about it.

Bullyimg
December 8, 2016 3:43 pm

It should probably be mentioned that DY has a policy of refusing to test ppl if they have been tested elsewhere, thus creating problems for shidduchim where one was tested by Dy and the other elsewhere and the DY side do not understand that they CAN trust other organisations. There is an element of bullying going on and ppl must be aware. I have no agenda here other then my childrens future. I appreciate this article fully. The truth MUST be told

Defamation is unnecessary
December 8, 2016 3:31 pm

So agree with #39 and #42!
Very unnecessary to bash an organization that has and continues to save lives.

Fertility Treatments
December 8, 2016 3:19 pm

When my fertility dr said dor yesharim isn’t enough he recommends a different lab with a much more comprehensive list of diseases that they test for. That’s when I was grateful my husband and I never chose it. In the end we chose to take our chances. But I don’t want to pay fir a medical test to not get my results. I know that being a carrier doesn’t mean I have it and I know that my husband being a carrier as well doesn’t mean our child would have it. Therefore I just don’t see why anyone would spend… Read more »

to 34
December 8, 2016 3:18 pm

i 100% agree with u!
i did the test with dor yeshorim, ‘my kids have done and will do because it’s the done thing but please anything could happen to anyone at any time .

Your Facts are Flawed
December 8, 2016 3:13 pm

Get Educated! The amount of diseases screened on the standard panel is 9 diseases not 7 as you mentioned. The results are usually available within 2-3 weeks except when you screen at a mass screening. Medical experts agree with their program more than any other one. There are many mutations that can cause the same disease and DY screens for them, the biggest proof is that DY has different panels for Sephardim and Ashkenazim and both get screened for Tay Sachs and Cystic Fibrosis even though they each carry a diff. mutation for the same disease. Also if you ever… Read more »

to #39
December 8, 2016 3:07 pm

I agree with you all the way. Dor Yesharim, Rabbi Eckstein and his whole staff are doing an amazing job. From what i know, and I have visited their office in Williamsburg, their tests cover 99%+ of all ashkenazi diseases. What they have done, and continue to do to raise the bar, is a true miracle in our time.
Tuvia Teldon

I EMPATHIZE, but
December 8, 2016 3:04 pm

There is so much pain in the world and it’s so easy to find blame. When my child was born with a (now-preventable) genetic disease, there was no Dor Yeshorim. In fact, he was about ten years old when scientists first isolated the chromosome on which they located the most prevalent genetic marker. Hopes ran high that this would signal cures galore. I wish it had. But because the Aibishter runs the world, most diseases still rear their ugly heads, and thanks to current discoveries for genetic testing, and thanks to organizations like Dor Yeshorim, we can hope to prevent… Read more »

To #34
December 8, 2016 2:49 pm

As I’m sure you know HaShem rules the world and at a certain point in history He decided to reveal the ability to do genetic testing. I am pretty sure in the time of the Avos there was also not the ability to perform many life-saving surgeries that are available today nor the medicines that so many of us take ! It is clear that you, your family and your friends have BH been spared the agony of having a child with debilitating or Gd forbid, fatal genetic disease. Because if you have ever seen that avoda up close and… Read more »

To # 43
December 8, 2016 2:40 pm

Are you kidding? A HS student is supposed to know how many different deseases you can test for? He or she relies on the schools recommendation to use DY

I agree.
December 8, 2016 2:34 pm

My wife and i were both tested by Dir Yeshorim, after my wife became pregnant we found out she was a carrier of a relatively common mutation in Ashkenazic circles. It would be so much better if everyone tested for everything and actually knew whats what. Jscreen sounds like a great alternative to DY. (Or DY can always start testing for more things, -!; more importantly tell people what it is that they are carriers of, and how it might affect their children)

Read!
December 8, 2016 2:31 pm

She is not advocating her own screening. Jscreen is a completely sperate organization. Sara runs Jnetics which just promotes genetic awareness etc.

Well said
December 8, 2016 2:27 pm

Growing up in Australia, we did it there and got our results a few weeks later. It was a cheek swab, and you had the option to get your resulsts now, or wait until a few years down the line. But none of this “we won’t tell you” rubbish.

Years later
December 8, 2016 2:20 pm

Great article ! So true …i took the test over 30 years ago ..We were “compatible “…got married etc but now that I’m single again it dawned on me that evem all those years later I dont even know if im a carrier for anything …i would def test privately if I needed..also want to comment on the dy tests they def break up shidduchim even though a couple I’d told to wait sometimes all the circumstances and hashgacha p just work themselves out and the couple can’t wait to date , or it can just be that a girl… Read more »

Halachig element
December 8, 2016 2:19 pm

What you might have forgotten: all of us are carriers of many different diseases. It is halachagly not so simple to just tell people not to get engaged or meet because of a genetic disease. In some of the more serieus deseases the rabbonim allowed the testing due to the catastrophic happenings that can befall the children of parents that are carriers. Let me emphasize CAN it is not a MUST. Me personally lost two sibblings on one of these ashkenazic (less common but yes included in dor yeshorim) deseases. When my parents got married dor yeshorim didnt exist yet,… Read more »

Our experience...
December 8, 2016 2:15 pm

In high school all girls were routinely (blood) tested by DY. Years later when I was to be engaged, I called and as my choson had not had it done in his teens they advised that we both (me re)do it and pay the express fee of $250 each as the testing had been upgraded and had more tests added. (Namely originally just the 3 and by then it was 7). If I recall correctly back then,DY gave a certain code to those of a lesser religious backround/ schools so they could be identified when calling and they would be… Read more »

You are a spectacular couple
December 8, 2016 2:10 pm

Thank you for enlightening us about the misnomers about genetic testing. I just went to JScreen.org to learn about their test and ordered one for myself. It’s even more confidential than DY because they mail the saliva kit to your house and you don’t have to have blood drawn in public.

To #34
December 8, 2016 2:06 pm

How did your great grandparents manage without penicillin

degrees
December 8, 2016 2:00 pm

As a frum person in the medical field I am shocked at the fum community. We want the best medical health but use unaccountable organzations. Get a degree, understand what the process is to be educated and understanding the field you want to enter. Just putting on a badge as a nurse,chaplain, doctor, therapist takes time and education!!

Comments
December 8, 2016 1:52 pm

People really don’t get it
You can get tested today in medical facilities who have no agenda no fees if NHS, or in other countries reasonable fees, comparable to any medical testing;?blood, endocrinology, reproductive medicine testing etc
Dor Yeshorim was not a choice thirty years ago a fortiori nowadays. Nothing to do with completion. It was in our day a control issue. Has not changed all. We all have children and grandchildren and even great grandchildren. Rav Rosner is known and his organization takes not one brass farthing all his work in health advocacy is done for pure Chesed sake

Are we ever secure
December 8, 2016 1:51 pm

To all those who want to be 100% secure let me share my experience, i did not do the dor yeshorim test instead i had it done at a hospital that specialises in genetic testing and recieved my results. When i was waiting to be tested a couple walked in and said they wanted to be 100% sure that they were compatible they asked which tests they should take, the answer they got was “you see how many rooms there are in this hospital, thats how many tests you’d need and probably more” off course we must take precautions and… Read more »

ask your roifay yedid
December 8, 2016 1:45 pm

In order to make sure that this is not just a nother hoax just to invalidate an existing company in order to promote a new company one should better consult with his doctor who is a friend and see what he says

To 39
December 8, 2016 1:26 pm

Both of us know that had she quoted certain physicians, they would have been smeared. The article clearly stated to do your own research by asking a doctor who is knowledgeable in genetics and decide how you would proceed.

This is clearly not a PR stunt. What are they selling?? It’s just an emotional piece about the imperative importance of being thoroughly genetically tested.

Dor Yeshorim has much to be thanked for. However, this does not detract from the author’s point. I think you missed the entire point of the article…

Devorah Leah
December 8, 2016 1:18 pm

We had an issue with them! We called for our results/compatibility of tests taken of years ago (we are a remarriage) and they claimed my chosson was deceased and wouldn’t give info. We gave them our social security numbers and they said my chosson was already married. We were told to do the tests again and paid $250 cash for express blood work and they wouldn’t give us the results. They gave us the run-around for 12 months!! We then had to use insurance to take blood work at the doctor’s office who tested for way more than what dor… Read more »

Awareness
December 8, 2016 1:14 pm

I agree awareness is the key. Why do you feel the need to bash an organization started by two parents who tried to help our then unaware community.
Dor Yishorim was revolutionary back then and saved countless people.
I would be thrilled to read about an article bringing awareness but lets not forget all that Dor Yishorim has done for our community!

Ridiculous!
December 8, 2016 1:08 pm

Don’t blame Dor Yeshorim for *your ignorance* that they don’t test for all genetic diseases.

Chill, please!
December 8, 2016 1:02 pm

Firstly, WHO CARES if “compatible” and “not compatible” are medical terms or not?! So let’s say they were “invented” by Dor Yeshorim, so?! They developed a very wise system, which by now may indeed include some outdated aspects but that;s still not a valid reason to bash the whole organization. Secondly, they don’t “break shiduchim”. Most people are told not to start dating someone till the Dor Yeshorim test comes back “compatible”. That’s not called breaking up a shiduch. Please stop these lies. I understand and feel very sorry for your situation and I hope Hashem will bless you to… Read more »

CHAIM
December 8, 2016 12:53 pm

The reason why dor yeshorim keeps the results hidden is because many families would not allow their children to get tested for fear of being labeled as sick. Even if it’s wrong to feel that way it’s better to get everyone tested and deal with the most common issues then to ride high alone and have many families not come along for the testing because they are afraid. Also as a starting point I would suggest to do mass screenings at Chabad schools just to get your idea off the ground. You need both sides to take the test and… Read more »

Agree but Disagree
December 8, 2016 12:52 pm

I agree there should be a more efficient system and always open to medical improvements . However, this article comes as an emotional rant against DY as opposed to coming out with an article that is medically revealing.

Children
December 8, 2016 12:44 pm

Obviously PR is not your forte. You negate the diseases which were essentially eradicated in our communities because of the good work of Dor Yeshorim. You provide half-truths and provocative statements to unroll your self-serving agenda. I too did Dor Yeshorim and we also got a call back regarding our newborn’s genetic disease screening. When speaking with the genetic counselor at NYU she was VERY VERY clear that even if we’d done the genetic FULL panel testing, often times genes won’t show up strong enough, yet can ultimately strengthen when couples with a spouses gene. You are throwing out an… Read more »

Screening the right way
December 8, 2016 12:26 pm

Thank you for sharing your story. My Rabbi, my physician, and all of my sources recommended JScreen to me. They are a credible not-for-profit organization that makes accurate screening available for all of us.

Messed up
December 8, 2016 12:24 pm

I know a family that has a genetic disease that can be tested for and Prevented. And dy chose to skip cause it costs them too much money.

rejected
December 8, 2016 12:20 pm

Hi- Dor Yesharim has done so much for the Jewish future. There is no need to bash something that has saved lives and brought awareness to an ever contained community. However, this that the author states about its methods being old fashioned, this is true. I am a girl in shidduchim who recently failed the dor yesharim test. Myself and the prospective bochur were found “incompatible.” Ok, so move on. Right? Well the kind people at this organization told my parents not to tell the girl there was anything wrong. She’ll be afraid, they said. She’ll feel like theres something… Read more »

Yasher Koach!!
December 8, 2016 12:19 pm

Please don’t take heed to the naysayers! You are bringing awareness to so many who just have no clue.

statement.
December 8, 2016 12:15 pm

I know this is 2016. But how did our parents and grandparents manage?all the way going back to our avos?to me this is called BUSINESS!

Finally
December 8, 2016 12:14 pm

100% agree thanks for publishing

In Israel, you can test with your health fund.
December 8, 2016 12:13 pm

This article also doesn’t mention that one of the worst and most common genetic diseases – Fragile X – is not tested by Dor Yesharim at all.

If you live in Israel, test with your health fund. Many are free and those that aren’t cost a minimal amount per test. Plus the doctors know which tests you personally should do.

Agree with # 16 & 18
December 8, 2016 12:00 pm

Nachas raising your son & For sharing your info with the public. Please don’t negate what DY do!!!! They are a wonderful org and don’t play Gd . Hashem decides what type of children we are blessed to raise. Couples & parents can decide how to test etc…
Continued Hatzlocha
Good health to all families and new couples!!!!

Yasher koach
December 8, 2016 11:53 am

Everyone should always share the information they have in order to help those unaware

Sunlight
December 8, 2016 11:53 am

Thank you Mrs. Dwarkin for your article. Shedding light on the subject will only lead to better testing and healthier Yiddish children. What a gift you have given the Frum world with your article can never will be measured!! But HaShem who instructs us in the Torah “Virapoh Yirapeh” to seek the best available medical knowledge and asistance possible should Bentch you and you many with Kol Tuv Bhashmius Uviruchnius. I have a child who will start the Parsha of Shiduchim IY”H next year and thanks to you, knowing what I now know, I can not and will not proceed… Read more »

To 16
December 8, 2016 11:52 am

Jnetic does not provide testing.
They are purely informational and offer guidance for people who want to complete comprehensive testing.
Even if they were providing testing, the only person who should advise you on medical matters is a medical professional as she writes:
“I don’t expect you take my word for it. I encourage you to reach out to a medical professional who specializes in genetics and specifically how it relates to the Jewish community.”
No matter how you spin it, people need to be tested thoroughly and it’s up to Dor Yeshorim to step up and do it!

Haskama
December 8, 2016 11:50 am

Do you have any Doctors on your team that you are making medical statements?
Do you have any Rabbonim that have given haskama,
You are making statements that certaing treatments are acceptable.
Seems like a nice cause but some more legitimacy is needed to gain the trust.

I hear you
December 8, 2016 11:46 am

BUT…..

I really hate it when a professional bashes another one. Dor Yeshorim have done AMAZING work and stopped countless deaths. Now you are making them sound like they are some fraudulent company only out for the money.

"Maple Syrup Urine Disease"
December 8, 2016 11:46 am

This is included in the Dor Yesharim’s total screening tests.

ok this is a start
December 8, 2016 11:45 am

For more competition in the marketplace. DY does not offer comprehensive testing, we know that, but it’s better than nothing at all. Also DY, why oh why do you not tell ppl their results????? What!! we can’t know if we are carriers of something. I support this new testing organization and hopefully both will continue to improve and help save lives.
hatzlocha

Yashar Koach
December 8, 2016 11:40 am

Yashar Koach to Yossi & Sarah, for putting their name to what they are sharing and not just posting anonymously.
If you read the article they are NOT self promoting their organization. Their organization jnetics is an awareness organization – it is not a business or a service provider. They share a solution with Jscreen – which they are NOT affiliated with.

Thank you!
December 8, 2016 11:35 am

I couldn’t agree more. I did both tests abs the J screen was simple. And you can mail it in so you can do it anytime anthere. My test was only $99! Unless they raised the price in the last year. It also draws no blood, is more advanced, quicker response, totally transparent and a better user experience. For yeshorim is an old conversation and a primitive tool in light of the new resources avaluable. No more guessig and being in the dark.

Oh Please
December 8, 2016 11:30 am

Please do not paint Dor yeshorim to be the bad guys. They have most certainly saved thousands of families from untold heartache. if you have a better product we are all ears. Please sell on your strong points without bashing.
I am also a carrier of a genetic mutation that Dor Yeshorim does not test for (and is common in the ashkenazic) circles and understand the need for more awareness and testing. Kol HaKavod to you for taking on this important initiative.

So much hatzlacha
December 8, 2016 11:25 am

I have sworn never to do Dor Yesharim due to them not being transparent. The claim is that people’s feelings will be hurt. Facts don’t care about your feelings and I deserve to know all the facts so I can make an informed decision. I am impressed with this article and I really hope your organization can bring awareness and can shift support away from this secretive organization.

not messed up
December 8, 2016 11:23 am

To #2, the author is not saying that DY messed up. She is saying that their testing is limited and provides a false sense of security.

Call ot what it is
December 8, 2016 11:22 am

Dy protects against the most common diseases found by ashkenazim, it cuts down the chances of diseases by lets say 90 percent. They arevan organization that did a lot of good for the Jewish community. I agree there is room for improvement, but let’s call it improvement and not just bash…

Wow Kol Hkavod!
December 8, 2016 11:20 am

Sarah, It is amazing that you lending your voice and your painful story to help others!
We grow up in a community with many taboos… and people are ashamed and stay quiet while others continued to get hurt!
The fact that you are ready to make a difference and speak out to help others is really commendable!
May Hashem help you and give you much strength and courage! Above hall much health to your beautiful son!
Inspired and appreciative!

Dear author
December 8, 2016 11:18 am

I did dor yeshorim knowing full well they aren’t testing for 39 possible diseases, but knowing both parents aren’t carriers of 7 is better then not knowing anything. As I continued to read your article I was wondering what your agenda was by putting down dor yeshorim.. then I found it. By promoting your own.. you could have easily promoted yours without bashing dor yeshorim… Dor yeshorim has been around for years and are constantly working on improving the testing and your jnetic is fairly new.. in all honesty I would wait a few years before trusting jnetic just like… Read more »

Dear Author
Reply to  Dear author
June 15, 2020 11:28 am

You obviously don’t know the difference between crying out with pain and “bashing”.
Whatever a person who is suffering in such a manner writes, the only emotion that should come to the fore is sympathy.
Maybe their greatest pain is looking back and thinking how foolish I was to rely so much on the magic word “compatible”, and I don’t want ANYONE to do the same.
Rachmonus is a sign of a ben Yisroel.
Your Brocho at the end smacks of sarcasm considering your searing criticism.
(BTW, this is the very first time that I have “heard” the name Dworcam.)

Lives at stake
December 8, 2016 11:17 am

When lives are at stake, it is people like these special souls, Rabbi and Mrs Dworcan, who allow us to live in a world where better options are available and the information is made readily accessible.
Thank you both!

thanks a lot
December 8, 2016 11:16 am

an important article

ask your roifay yedid
December 8, 2016 11:14 am

In order to make sure that this is not just a nother hoax just to invalidate an existing company in order to promote a new company one should better consult with his doctor who is a friend and see what he says

"incompatible"
December 8, 2016 11:11 am

When dor yeshorim tells a couple that they’re “incompatible,” the couple is just supposed to drop the shidduch and move on. It is never explained to them exactly which condition they’re both carriers for and how it might affect their future children. Also there are conditions that used to be considered incurable but now have many effective treatments and survivors can live well into adulthood (such as CF). Still not easy to have a child with a genetic condition but not all genetic diseases are equal.

Nd
December 8, 2016 11:11 am

Will dor yishorim now add more testing ? Or should we go to jscreen ? I want to be as secure as possible ! What do TNE professionals suggest doing now , for those who tested through dor yishurim ?

Thank You!
December 8, 2016 11:09 am

Thank you for bringing this vital information to the public and for your courage and perseverance to make change. As parents with two children with a rare genetic disease, who went through the Dor Yeshorim “system”, we could not agree more! Keep up your tremendous work.

Association for the prevention of Jewish genetic diseases
December 8, 2016 11:08 am

We knew thirty years ago about Dor Yeshorim
Rav Bezalel Rakov of Gateshead RabbShlaff of Bobov and In first position Rav Rosner
Today there are plenty of medical facilities that can provide full genetic screening however the participant knows it’s result
Dor Yishroim keep everything secret.

To David
December 8, 2016 11:07 am

The chart Jscreen is showing looks like the actually are offering more coverage for the problem. I personally believe awareness coupled with competition will bring the whole concept to more advanced and blessed results, and will push Dor Yasharim to offer more testing and consulting. . Kudos for the initiative, JScreen! Hatzlacha raba!

To number #2
December 8, 2016 11:05 am

She does offer a better solution, Jscreen.
If you and the person you are dating are compatible according to Dor Yesharim, and you are ready to go ahead with the shidduch, do Jscreen to be ready to deal with things before a problem arises.

to#1
December 8, 2016 10:59 am

Sure she offeres an alternative (better) solution. That’s what Jnetics is!

To #1
December 8, 2016 10:59 am

Did you read the article? Did you miss the huge chart at the bottom?

She isn’t bashing she’s sharing very important information. One of the great sicknesses of the frum world is that people fight anyone who challenges the status quo….without even listening to what’s being said!!

And she is offering an alternative!!!

to 1
December 8, 2016 10:56 am

A false sense of security is not something…wait it is something, it’s a false sense of security

Awareness
December 8, 2016 10:54 am

#1 it actually does, better solution is to use something like jscreen which i actually used. they test for 106 as opposed to Dor Yeshorim who only test for 14.

i completely agree with Sara.

Moshe
December 8, 2016 10:53 am

God should bless you and your wife with a lot of strength. ‏ just out of curiosity how many years are they doing it (Dor Y)and how many incidents do they have where things got messed up

David
December 8, 2016 12:38 am

I’m deeply sorry for you that your child is suffering from this rare disease I bless you with the strenth needed.

Your article does not offer a better solution just bashes what is currently available in get it that it’s not perfect but it’s something.

X