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Sunday, 18 Tammuz, 5779
  |  July 21, 2019

    The Bas Mitzvah Problem

    From the COLlive Inbox: My 7th grader just came home from yet another Bas Mitzvah with an entire shopping bag of party favors...will my daughter be considered the "neb" of the class? Full Story

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    agree
    Guest
    agree

    agree and also the bas Mitzvahs that have DJs and dancing tend to use non jewish music even if yisreli music its not kosher
    definitely not something the Rebbe wanted for his chassidim and bas chabad girls

    So true
    Guest
    So true

    100% agree

    Got away cheap
    Guest
    Got away cheap

    Gave my daughter a beautiful bas mitzvah recently, in the house and bought two tickets to Israel for spouse and daughter, all for under 2k and thank G-d got away cheap.

    I agree
    Guest
    I agree

    Kol kvuda bas melech pnima.
    Girls don’t need to be out there having a “bas mitzva performance”
    It’s selfish and inconsidrate to most people in our community

    This!
    Guest
    This!

    Beis rivkah Montreal recently changed their policy on bas mitzvas, other schools should learn from it! And by the way, same goes for BAR mitzvas as well. What is going on in crown heights is getting way out of hand

    Yes!!! Agree to #1
    Guest
    Yes!!! Agree to #1

    I had Bas mitzvahs a little over 2 years ago and the most of the problem was having goishe music! I’m happy I’m done with that part!

    Schools power
    Guest
    Schools power

    Every other community has schools that make rules and they are kept. If a girl knew she would be thrown out for not adhering to the rules it won’t happen. Unfortunately they know rules in our schools are made to be broken. The principals are busy dealing with petty misdemeanors . That being said you also have the right to tell your daughter not to attend when you don’t approve of the party. By knowing the location you can have a good idea of what the party will be like. Another concern I had was who is in charge of… Read more »

    Dudi F
    Guest
    Dudi F

    My only question is if you truli think about it, if this is a problem about making all girls feel equal then why not make the same issue when it comes to the boys BM ?

    well said!
    Guest
    well said!

    i wish someone will make an end to it.

    Tzedoka
    Guest
    Tzedoka

    the bas mitzva girl would rather you give the money to the needy unfourtnly these parties are not made for the 12yr old girls but rather for the 12yr old woman!!!

    Bais Chaya Mushka * Crown Heights **
    Guest
    Bais Chaya Mushka * Crown Heights **

    Maybe you should send your daughter to our school.
    Where rules regarding Bas Mitzva are strictly upheld.
    Where all of my daughters had many friends, were happy with their Chassidishkeit, and never judged regarding dress or other external or material value. Bas Mitzvahs are simple according to the directives of our Rebbe.
    We as mothers owe this to our daughters

    bubby
    Guest
    bubby

    when my girls had their bas mitzvah, (they are now bubbies themselves) it was considered standard to have shalosh seudos in summer, or melava malka in winter, in our own home. No suvenirs to take home and gifts either one from class or close friends only sent over before Shabbos.

    Thanx for posting
    Guest
    Thanx for posting

    I agree 100%!!!! We need the schools to help make this change!!

    In Bais Yaakov....
    Guest
    In Bais Yaakov....

    In my school a girl was threatened to be kicked out for attending a bas mitzvah. When I attended a friend’s bas mitzvah hosted in her home, I was called to the principals office and my parents were called. I then had to sign a form that I will never attend another classmates bas mitzvah or I will be suspended. You can imagine that I did not attend another bas mitzvah. One day there was a bas mitzvah party for the entire grade. I had another bas mitzvah just for family.

    How about the new upsherin events?
    Guest
    How about the new upsherin events?

    Renting moonwalks, serving sushi platters, hiring entertainers, etc. They are also being held outside of homes.

    Another view
    Guest
    Another view

    I personally made beautiful bas mitzvas in my home. However, isnt this part of life?! It’s a teachable moment for our children and they can only grow and mature when parents discuss this topic with their kids in a caring sensitive manner.

    about time
    Guest
    about time

    someone spoke about this. the situation is rediculous.

    Why shouldn't a bas mitzvah be as nice as a bar miitzvah.
    Guest
    Why shouldn't a bas mitzvah be as nice as a bar miitzvah.
    Dini Cohen
    Guest
    Dini Cohen

    Are the parents that are hosting these extravagant bas mitzvah parties paying full tuition ?
    We have a mosed callapsing from unpaid tuition!! (Yes I understand that there are people that gain from extravagant parties but still- where are our priorities ?

    Mother of 4 daughters
    Guest
    Mother of 4 daughters

    What bothers me is that the school goes through the pretense of making rules. With an official meeting. It only accomplishes making them look foolish because they have all these standards which they do not even attempt to regulate or enforce.

    That's life
    Guest
    That's life

    Whether it’s shiduchim or bas mitzvah parties (and like Dudi mentions, I’m not sure why Bar mitzvahs weren’t mentioned using the same logic) many have great ideas to manipulate real life. Let’s control who people marry, let’s regulate how people celebrate their life cycles and how they spend their money. Here’s the deal. It’s a free country and ultimately people are free to make their own choices (especially since there’s no halacha breaking we’re talking about here). Is it really the schools fault that an adult cant keep to a budget because their child needs to keep up with the… Read more »

    Always wondered...
    Guest
    Always wondered...

    How do people afford the lavish events if no one has money for school tuition?! Maybe that is one of the problems? However 20 years ago bat mitzvah’s in my class were being held in halls too, I don’t think this is a big change just that we notice it more due to social media. I’m sorry it’s painful. I did not have the fanciest bat mitzvah but I did have the most fun bat mitzvah out of my class. I never begrudge my wealthier friends or felt bad. This is a good opportunity to teach your daughters about finances… Read more »

    Give me a break. YOU'RE the jealous one.
    Guest
    Give me a break. YOU'RE the jealous one.

    To start off, I made a Bar Mitzvah on a tiny budget and the girls loved it, and NOBODY complained. The girls don’t know the difference between a fancy or tiny Bat Mitzvah event. They can’t see the difference between 10K and 1K, so who cares, both from the big spenders and from the small spenders. All they want is an enjoyable event. For them even just making bracelets with their friends is good and well sufficient for them. You want to know WHERE a problem lies? When adults try to IMITATE expensive events instead of thinking creatively. Try to… Read more »

    Life isn't fair.
    Guest
    Life isn't fair.

    It’s a lesson in life that it’s not always fair. Some will be taller, smarter, skinnier and yes, richer.

    Have a talk with your child about it. Discuss your values & budget. Your child will be better prepared for the real world.

    Rules aren’t the answer to everything. And we have so many rules as it is.

    And see if you won’t admit to yourself, that maybe, maybe, if you could afford it, you would love to make a celebration like that for all your 7 girls.

    Enforcing rules
    Guest
    Enforcing rules

    Is kicking a girl out of school the only option as a consequence for breaking the schools bas mitzvah rules?

    To 14 and COL
    Guest
    To 14 and COL

    That’s scary and controlling. No Jewish child should ever be threatened with expulsion for going to a kosher function. Bas mitzvahs are a “modern” invention just as much as bar mitzvahs were a novel concept 30 years ago.

    Col..curious did the DJ pay for the advertisement?

    So True!
    Guest
    So True!

    It’s poshut disgusting how the gashmius took over. The Rebbe specifically said that a Bas Mitzva should be in conjunction with a farbreingen, Melave Malka etc… And yes, it’s not just Bas Mitzvas and it’s not just that everyone should be the same – it’s where the emphasis is put at all simchas. The guest feel best when welcomed warmly and made to feel important, not when the cookies are custom made with the bows and names… some L’chaims are way out of hand – was supposed to be a simple affair in the house to break the plate and… Read more »

    17 now
    Guest
    17 now

    In my days (lol, like 5 years ago) we all had modest, home bas mitzvahs. it was VERY FUN if you got a customized bag, nevermind renting a hall or whatever. its getting out of hand and bas mitzvahs were never supposed to be an expensive deal. I find this kind of ridiculous, calm down, crown heights.

    It's not the school's place
    Guest
    It's not the school's place

    I hate this attitude. The schools are already overly involved in our children’s out-of-school lives, and it’s not a good thing. I went to a school where there was none of this business of the school prying into people’s home lives. There were occasional talks about kiddush hashem, remembering that we represent the school, and a basic rule about all birthday parties (invite either everyone or less than half). But beyond that, they didn’t mix in. And let me tell you, everyone was a whole lot better off! By the time kids are 12, they know each other’s families and… Read more »

    Yes to modest Bas Mitzvahs!
    Guest
    Yes to modest Bas Mitzvahs!

    A few months before my daughter’s Bas Mitzvah, her father A”H passed away. The Rav paskened that due to the aveilus, the Bas Mitzvah needed to be in our none-too-big apartment and should be simple. And so it was. The menu was modest but we served food the girls liked. There were suitable Divrei Torah from my daughter and a favorite teacher. We did a simple, inexpensive “mitzvah craft project” that everyone enjoyed. The price of the party was just right. And the simcha was really over-the-top! It looked to me like the girls were happier being squished together in… Read more »

    TO #1#2#3#4#5#6#7#8#9101121314
    Guest
    TO #1#2#3#4#5#6#7#8#9101121314

    This sounds so familiar, I bet yall voted for Bernie. This is Bernie logic

    and here r 2 examples

    1. Either give me the same thing or better. Cause u can afford it
    2. U can’t do it cause it will offend me cause I can’t do it

    And for the record i dont have tons of money and i dont come fram a family with money

    Life is tough, lets Party
    Guest
    Life is tough, lets Party

    I don’t have the money to throw a lavish affair but I sure do enjoy going to them. Don’t begrudge parents the few momentous occasions to celebrate. Some people just have a knack and are very creative and thoroughly enjoy planning for a party. Just like theres some people who go above and beyond for shalach manos. On the flip side the new trend in chabad is to throw lavish, over the top events as fundraisers. Maybe if leadership had a more eidel outlook so will the rest of the community. People need leadership. We follow examples. If shuls tone… Read more »

    Dear #23
    Guest
    Dear #23

    The kids should have a say in the matter, they know whats hip and “cool” in their class and would want to stay popular but having a small event may actually compromise their situation and we’ve all been there back when we were in school

    Totally agree
    Guest
    Totally agree

    TOTALLY agree with the writer!
    ITS SERIOUSLY sickening and unnecessary what goes on!
    It’s the schools to blame ..
    Just like there’s a school rule to wear a uniform and NO EXCEPTIONS , same should be to this rule !
    Period !
    I don’t get what AND WHY the school is intimidated by these types of parents ? Like seriously !

    To 23
    Guest
    To 23

    I totally agree with you but as the rebbe said you should be besimcha and if a big party is what will make your precious gem happy then i say go for it

    taking  bas mitzve girl to the Rebbe as priority
    Guest
    taking bas mitzve girl to the Rebbe as priority

    BH I can share , hopefully some inspiration for others. my daughter is putting a lot of hard work and effort to make travelling to the Rebbe, a long and expensive trip, a priority for her girls bas mitzve. The girls learn hachone with thier father for 6 months before…She makes a familly farbrenguen, doing a lot of hard work alone, and then coming back home makes a simche at home for the class and then a farbrenguen for her own friends. BH the emphasis on the real values is visable to all, and the chinuch is that her girls… Read more »

    Happiness
    Guest
    Happiness

    There was a girl in my daughters class who made a small party yet my daughter had a blast and i think i may just make a small one as well

    Dearest #33
    Guest
    Dearest #33

    There are so so so many ways to be creative and stay relevant, kids don’t actually know what they want 🙂

    You can make challah with them, you can make bracelets, you can do art, youi can knit, you can sew, you can paint, you can bake, etc etc etc

    Parties
    Guest
    Parties

    It was mentioned somewhere in לזקן הרבץ that happiness is found within and not with what you produce (talking about the party here in this case)

    38 my dear
    Guest
    38 my dear

    not all of us are creative as you and can pull such stuff off, the schuna needs standers set up for us as parents of bat mitzve aged daughters

    another reason not to live in crown heights
    Guest
    another reason not to live in crown heights

    no leadership
    no kabolos ol
    no sense of responsibility to others

    Its so, so lost, you wonder how people even call themselves chasidim. How are they chasidim? Its an embarrassment.

    Might take a while..
    Guest
    Might take a while..

    But until then maybe if you just explain to your daughter who is maturing and can understand that you can’t afford a fancy bas mitzva, that it doesn’t make you a neb and it’s who you are as a person that matters not how much money you have. Because in real life not everything will be equal girls will still have fancier shoes and clothing than her. She can still be a very amazing person without tons of money. And if girls do have a fancy bas mitzvas understand that hashem blessed them with wealth and good for them.

    #40
    Guest
    #40

    What else do u want the shchunah to do for u. Maybe pay for it also. Or maybe they should dictate how u dress also or what car u drive I mean where does it end.

    Montreal
    Guest
    Montreal

    So glad BR montreal BM are all in school!!!
    The first year was a little upsetting for the girls but after the first year the girl are ok with it.
    So happy about the rull. No reason to spend so much money!!
    on a bm

    To the author
    Guest
    To the author

    Teach your daughter to be confident and she doesn’t have to compare herself to everyone. She doesn’t have to feel all nebach that her bas mitzvah is so not fancy. She shouldn’t decide her worth based on if she has matching napkins to her bas mitzva dress. She doesn’t have to feel ashamed for not being rich

    To 40, dearest one
    Guest
    To 40, dearest one

    Standards won’t stop anyone, we all know this.
    There’s also only so much power a school has, this world is build on leverage.

    And hey, creativity can be found in everyone, if you haven’t found it yet, you haven’t tried. It’s not that hard 🙂

    the Rebbe
    Guest
    the Rebbe

    The Rebbe has very clear guidelines for Bas Mitzvas. Happy are those who follow. Simple party, some guitar (if its weekday), arts and crafts, lots of dvar torahs, yummy food, some games, the end

    Love it how school get blamed for everything.
    Guest
    Love it how school get blamed for everything.

    Why is it schools fault. Where is the RESPONSIBILITY of the parents???
    Why is everything always blamed on the schools?
    Let’s be adults and show our daughters the proper way to celebrate a bas mitzva !

    It is the same parents that don’t listen to school rules and then come running that their children are not listening to them!!

    #27
    Guest
    #27

    well said! And yes, the school’s responsibility is to be mechanech the students, set the rules and enforce them just like they need to demand certain standards outside of school, bas-mitzvah rules should be one of them according to the Rebbe’s directive. There are schools who don’t accept students when the homes are not up to their standards and although this is not Chabad’s way the school certainly should have party rules as part of their chinuch. The emphasis should be on the ruchnius of the occasion while having a good time. #40 many ask an older girl to plan… Read more »

    You can't complain about rich people spending their money
    Guest
    You can't complain about rich people spending their money

    Hashem blessed them with wealth so let them spend it! It’s your job to realize that Hashem made some people in the world rich and some poor. He did not want everything to be equal. Baruch HaShem they are spending the money for simchas and that your daughter can enjoy.

    Takonos
    Guest
    Takonos

    In many communities there are takonah wedding halls. It seems to me that in this community we have to start with
    Takonos for brissim, upsherin, etc. As yidden we live our lives following the code of Jewish law. Yes, we obviously need @rules” on how to make a Simcha that is chassidish and
    Exemplifies “yiras shomayim”.

    oh please !
    Guest
    oh please !

    this is life deal with it! my 3 daughters had absolutely stunning Bas Mitzvas , i cut costs by inviting less ppl and making it at home. everything was done by me including a 3 tier cake , the table decoration , food , entertainment etc instead of being jealous , get creative . if u don’t want to / can’t then tell ur daughter to enjoy the fancy parties and point out what idiots these parents are and use them out and enjoy! point out how relaxed the girls were at her simple party or as far as i… Read more »

    To those who don't agree with the author
    Guest
    To those who don't agree with the author

    And say that she should teach her daughters that life is not fair.
    You are obviously on the wealthier side. I’m also. Can I just say that you are selfish?

    To all who say "deal with it" or "your jealous"
    Guest
    To all who say "deal with it" or "your jealous"

    The answer is very simple. If you are a Lubavitcher then the Rebbe wrote in letters that bas-mitzvahs should be a small event like a Melave Malka and for Tznius reasons. This should be enough reason for everyone even if you have tons of money.
    If your not a Lubavitcher, then of course, you have different standards, so don’t post here.

    You dont have kids this age
    Guest
    You dont have kids this age

    Some kids are ok, but for some the peer pressure is really hard. I made beautiful, normal (what I thought to be normal- a craft, some food, dvar torah- nothing fancy at all but definitely respectable) bas mitzvahs for my girls, and some of them are upset until today because it wasnt over the top like much of the class. Other daughters were quite happy with what I did. A lot depends on the child. Granted we can use this as a teachable moment, but in truth if it even makes some children dread a bas mitzvah, it needs to… Read more »

    amazing
    Guest
    amazing

    so insightful and inspiringly accurate

    only child
    Guest
    only child

    I only have one daughter not even a son not e veryone has 10 kids in ch

    Bubby
    Guest
    Bubby

    Unfortunately some of the classes today have many different cliques and the girls are downright nasty to the uncool girls in the class. I would make a seudah at home for family or for her few best friends. Wth the money you save, buy her an extra nice present or take her on a trip during winter break.

    To 53
    Guest
    To 53

    But at the end of the day it’s important for a girl to understand that life isn’t always fear and equal but that’s not something that should make you feel like a neb. It’s a fact of life and she should be taught how to deal with it

    What comes next?
    Guest
    What comes next?

    Really- this is out of control… What comes next? Do we force feed a slim girl because its not fair that she has a nice figure? Do we force everyone to wear uniforms at all times because someone might have nicer clothing? Maybe we should insist that everyone dye their hair an exact shade that is the same so no one will want that too??? Production giving solos to girls with a gifted voice???? Maybe we should fail the smart kids to make others feel better about not being as intelligent???? Do you (writer & posters) hear yourselves????? What is… Read more »

    Bar verses bas mitzvah
    Guest
    Bar verses bas mitzvah

    I didn’t read all the responses but why should a Bas Mitzvah be any different then a Bar mitzvah. Bothe boys and girls are responsible for Mitzvahs.

    I went to BR in CH...
    Guest
    I went to BR in CH...

    Girls threw exactly the types o parties described here (lavish, expensive etc.) and I had mine in my house… and you know what??? I was able to afford it but I didn’t! Ialso believe that my party was enjoyed more by everyone than when the whole world was at the big lavish ones!!!!!!!

    To No. 53
    Guest
    To No. 53

    I don’t agree with the author, and my family is NOT on the wealthier side. I am not proud of my Bas Mitzva party. But just because mine sucked doesn’t mean no one else should have a nice one! They have the capacity to host a beautiful party; good for them! And my family didn’t — okay, not the end of the world. One day when I do have money I wouldn’t want other people telling me what I can and can’t do with it, so I am not about to do that to others. Are the individuals you mentioned… Read more »

    Yehuda  l g
    Guest
    Yehuda l g

    From what I remembered in my parents home for my sisters busmitzva my mum made tones of fun games what a ball they all had. Just give them a lot of fun to remembered

    Amazing
    Guest
    Amazing

    Classic socialism. If everything needs to be identical there is no motivation and drive for further financial adance mentioned. This is classic jealousy or well-off who don’t want to spend their funds. I have attended numerous of these so-called lavish parties. For the most part, they all pay full tuition and they also are extremely generous. Children should not feel inferior because they don’t have anot extravagant party. That is for parents to teach. Some have bigger homes, nicer cars, fancier clothes. That is life. The failure is your own if it negatively affects your child.

    Bais Rifka and other schools do have rules !!!!!
    Guest
    Bais Rifka and other schools do have rules !!!!!

    I had many daughters that went through Bais Rivka and there beautiful Bas Mitzvahs at HOME !!! We kept to the rules !!! No matter how small are house was we managed to fit all the girls !!! If there is a will there is a way !!! Those mothers that have those fancy Bas Mitzvahs despite the school rules will not listen to any rules they do there own thing !! It’s there and there daughters loss bc look what they are teaching there daughters ??? Talk to your daughters moms and explain to them what is right what… Read more »

    Speak to your daughters or sons.
    Guest
    Speak to your daughters or sons.

    I have many friends who have thrown lavish bas mitzvahs and guess what i definitely cannot afford a fancy bas mitzvah but i sat with my daughter and asked what was important to her to have a her bas mitzvah …. that i could try to do 1 thing that she really wants ….. for some girls would be crafts or food etc… all she wanted is great music and allot of dancing . … she understood because i made her understand that not everyone can afford lavish that bh some people can and if your lucky to be part… Read more »

    Oyyyyyyy
    Guest
    Oyyyyyyy

    Socialist Jews…

    Birthday parties too
    Guest
    Birthday parties too

    And what about birthday parties in the house for 9,10, 11 year olds that became standard , also becoming extravagant

    I totally agree with this article
    Guest
    I totally agree with this article

    And to all those who are saying to just explain it to your daughter…. hello!!?? Do you not remember being 12 years old? They don’t think like adults. They are going through changes and are self conscious about everything. It’s easier said than done

    With privilege comes responsibility
    Guest
    With privilege comes responsibility

    Since when are the rich exempt from the Rebbe’s hora’os concerning the celebration of a bas mitzvah, or concerning anything, really? It is the opposite of responsible to use a simchah as a way to exhibit conspicuous consumption. Really, it’s a chillul Hashem! Families of means in Eretz Yisrael make a point of not buying “Shabbos shoes” for their children if the norm in the class is to polish your weekday shoes and wear them for Shabbos. The girls and the boys wear a uniform to school for a reason. And a “reasonable” standard for a bas mitzvah is the… Read more »

    Tag rules
    Guest
    Tag rules

    My daughter is in Tag Far rockaway. rule now is no Bat mitzvah parties. they celebrate all girls from that month in an even together every month.if u choose to make a family simcha apart from that its ur choice but not with classmates.i believe this is correct.
    for all who say it makes no difference..unfortunately that isnt true..girls and unfortunately parents do make a difference in the size of ur party,car,home etc….and the girls do feel it. these rules are to help eliminate issues as much as psossible and it does work.

    It's un-American!
    Guest
    It's un-American!

    Here we go again, yet another person who sees someone else’s wealth, feels jealous, and would impose socialist rule rather than work on themself! I come from a very poor family. My Bar Mitzva was a very simple affair in my home. I felt inferior because of it. I was jealous of the large lavish bar mitzva’s. That’s life! Grow up! Stop trying to impose your rule over others. Welcome to America! There are rich and poor in this country. There is also social and income mobility. You CAN change your situation from poor to a well-off in this country!… Read more »

    Starts young
    Guest
    Starts young

    It all starts much younger. The defiance and chutzpah that parents here model to their children. We had a simple rule. NO NOSH BAGS at school bday parties. Morah told the girls that this is the rule and spoke to each parent when planning a date etc for the party. Well the parents that anyways sent in nosh bags, you were telling your kids “who cares what morah says who cares about rules we can do wtvr we want” . The lack of kabbolos ol among parents is apalling to me, living here but having grown up waaaaaaaaay outta town.

    To 53
    Guest
    To 53

    Just plain wrong

    Almost everyone here who writes that she should teach her child that life isn’t fair (myself included) also wrote that they are not rich. My Bar mitzvah was in a tiny shul with no music and homemade food. That doesn’t mean I didnt enjoy going to my friends nice bar mitzvahs.

    Not even so true
    Guest
    Not even so true

    I have many girls BH, and from the sixty plus parties my girls attended, maybe 10 were extravagant. Also, sadly, the type of party you make won’t decide if your daughter is considered a neb, this was already decided by them. More astonishing is the fact that a chasidish girl is considered a neb, just by the length of her skirt… We are raising a shallow generation…

    It's not an issue of being able to afford it or not
    Guest
    It's not an issue of being able to afford it or not

    It’s just that there’s a way we do things, We call it “mesorah” in Hebrew, and therefore, today, where sitting around the supper table with the family and wishing your daughter all the brochos for becoming bas mitzvah won’t do, the rebbe gave instructions as to how it can be done in a way that the girl will be happy, together with her class (uncles and cousins are lav davka included) either motzei shabes, etc. So I’m not sure how this became a philosophical discussion about life being fair, or homemade food, or giving out a nice momento etc, these… Read more »

    I totally agree
    Guest
    I totally agree

    I don’t have kids of my own, but I remember my own Bas Mitzvah. Yes, I held it in a shul because my home wasn’t big enough, and yes, we did offer one bus to my out of town community, but the party itself was a simple affair, all the food was homemade and we had the standard bentcher and a small arts and crafts snow globe for the girls to take home. Many girls told me that my bas Mitzvah was the most fun they had in a long time, more than the fancier bas mitzvahs, and parents told… Read more »

    lavish
    Guest
    lavish

    ppl who make lavish events are also judged as tasteless and superficial. how are ppl who are simple judged? o it was very simple but very nice, id much rather that way. we were raised that way. yest we know ppl who made bar/bas mitzvahs fancier then our weddings . some how these things were seen in a very derogatory light in our home and i never even wanted it as a girl. its about the parents and the message they give to their children. its ok to want but its important to know our capacity. its not nerdy its… Read more »

    To #48
    Guest
    To #48

    I hear you . Truthfully it IS the parents to blame , but the school is too to blame , SIMPLY because let’s be frank here .The types of parents that do make these crazy bas mitzvas , are out to lunch regarding priorities and normality . So unfortunately, for these types of ” wanna be ” parents, the school must step in and STICK to their rules no matter what! With NO exceptions!!! Thats unfortunately the ONLY way.

    Kids will be kids!
    Guest
    Kids will be kids!

    This is what happens when we lower our community standards! I always tell my daughter that there is no “I” in Simchah!

    Stop competing in EITHER direction !!
    Guest
    Stop competing in EITHER direction !!

    This is ridiculous. Stop COMPETING! If you want a haimishe simple bas mitzvah, kol hakavod! If you’re wealthy and paying full tuition, go ahead and enjoy over the top. You should all be blessed b’ruchnius and b’gashmius and stop competing over who makes better choices. Stop judging and focus on the good!

    and the engagement parties, bar mitzvahs and goes on
    Guest
    and the engagement parties, bar mitzvahs and goes on

    If the school use no gevurah on this and other issues nothing will change.
    Yehidas doros and it is just getting worst.
    Matter over mind in an absurd proportion.
    People lost values and the Rebbe is no longer here to guide them.

    Where does it end
    Guest
    Where does it end

    I get it but you can say it is not fair that some girls to have summer homes or some girls get to got to sleep away camp for two months or some girls live in big houses or tiny apt. etc. Someone may make a modest Bat Mitzvah for their daughter which can be considered a big one for a different child. When people work they have earned the right to spend their money on what is important to them. For some it may be spending money on a bigger apt or some it may be a car or… Read more »

    Melave Malka
    Guest
    Melave Malka

    We did a nice melave malka rentinga hall in a shul for $200 with chinese food self service ,music from our stereo and ivery inspired divrei torah, a beutiful melave malka for women ,all under 1000$ for 150 people and everyone loved it

    Agree with 23
    Guest
    Agree with 23

    Sounds like jealousy to me.
    Some people have more money than others. Who are we to judge where they spend it?
    And yet, the money is put towards a SIMCHA. So BE HAPPY, enough with the pettiness and comparing to others. Do what works for you and your family. Some people work extremely hard, and they have the right to spend more money on a simcha without having to worry about backlash and judgment.

    And girls should be penalized in school for this?

    I think the jealousy is a MUCH bigger problem.

    Stop comparing to others. Be happy for them.

    upset parent
    Guest
    upset parent

    lots of people of writing to teach our kids right fom wrong . of course we must do that but lets remember peer pressure is very real. and if we are able to somehow make it easier for our kids why shouldnt we. I personally blame the school for making a rule and not sticking to it. and to parents who knowingly go against the school rules. When you live in a community its important to be sensitive to others. Having money is a big blessing and there are more appropriate ways to spend. there are ways to make a… Read more »

    To all those saying its jealousy....
    Guest
    To all those saying its jealousy....

    I agree with the writer and I am NOT jealous! It’s not about jealousy. But when a school says they have rules, use the rules! Don’t pick and choose which rules to stick to? When people see they can get away with rules, they think they can with everything. That’s why women come to pick up their kids very immodestly dressed, because nobody is by the doors refusing them entry.

    bas mitzvah
    Guest
    bas mitzvah

    I agree that theres a problem that people overdo things. if the girls having a bas mitzvah, she should be taught the value of the mitzvos, and not to waste money on stupitidy.

    Please define...
    Guest
    Please define...

    “over the top”

    Other communites
    Guest
    Other communites

    People in other schunos do mitzvos shayich for a bas mitzvah girl for the first time such as taking challah. Teaching the essence of what it is to be a bas yisroel…

    Agree!!!
    Guest
    Agree!!!

    I do not have a daughter even close to bas mitzvah she however I completely agree and can only imagine what will become of the “fancy parties” in a few years from now. It is unfortunate that we have to spend a ridiculous amonut on a party! Thank you for sharing!

    Fact is...
    Guest
    Fact is...

    I suspect for most, it bothers the parents more than the kid. I loved going to my friends “over-the-top” parties. It was our own private amusement park. I wasn’t jealous. Just focused on the fun I was having. Parents here clearly feel inadequate because they cannot make such a party or provide in the way they wish. Trust me, your kids aren’t bothered by it. Adults, stop wining and let your children enjoy.

    Crown Heighter
    Guest
    Crown Heighter

    Peer pressure sets community standards. My toddler wears a diamond necklace to playgroup. I can afford it! Now tell me, how does that affect your kid in playgroup? Do you REALLY feel the pressure to buy expensive jewelry for your toddler…or, do you think I am a total “nut job” for dressing my kid that way?! If we ALL would openly mock the lavish Bas Mitzvas as being “weird” NO ONE would make them – they will become extinct! However, if we “ooh and aaah” these fancy ostentatious affairs, then WE worship and idealize them. It is up to US… Read more »

    standards
    Guest
    standards

    The schools should recommend guidelines. I don’t think we can expect them to be “enforcers” though. You cannot force modesty and humility on people. It must come from within.

    Lack of hashgacha
    Guest
    Lack of hashgacha

    It’s not the extravagant party that bothers me. It’s the lack of control over what goes on there. My girls have come back talking about djs playing non Jewish music, mixed crowd- yes it was only the father, his friends and some uncles all while the girls were dancing. A magic show by a goy who was half undressed…. . It came to a point where I had to decide which friends parties I allowed my girls to attend! No my daughter doesn’t attend a day school, she goes to a community school with rules that are made to be… Read more »

    To 93
    Guest
    To 93

    You’re dead wrong. I couldn’t give a hoot what other people do or spend their money on. But it did bother my 6th grader a lot. That’s called being a teenager. And don’t give me the speech of teaching your child to just be happy. Think back to when you
    We’re that age and how badly you just wanted to fit in.

    question for parents and schools
    Guest
    question for parents and schools

    if school makes a rule they should enforce it. . Br has a rule that bas mitzvahs should be done at home or in a shul. why then are parents comfortable to break that rule? and why is school so afraid to enforce it.?
    If school feels its unnecessary to tell parents how to use their money ,then school should not make the rule in the first place. it undermines their authority.

    very hard to explain...
    Guest
    very hard to explain...

    to a lovely bas melech why her brother deserved a nicer simcha. Even if it’s in the home, a bas mitzvah should be special. Limits are good, but more important than simplifying everything, let’s put an emphasis on helping girls who wouldn’t otherwise have anything respectable to have something nice, and receive a nice gift. I would totally contribute to such an effort.

    bas mitzva
    Guest
    bas mitzva

    when I did bas mitzvah.all the class did it together we made the dresses,and had bas mitzvah lessons,did very nice arts,like chala cover..and
    we all rented a nice place in a shul each family had two tables for their guets,then after that if u want to have your oun gezunterheit.i didn’t had a separarete one.
    BAR MITZVA,its sad bcs some people do the BAR,and forget the main part,the MITZVA!!!(Also applies to bas mitzva)

    very nice that the school arranged that with the parents!

    To 97
    Guest
    To 97

    How about, cars, homes, summer homes, vacations, clothing, etc.
    Does that bother your 6th grader?

    Is boycotting the answer???
    Guest
    Is boycotting the answer???

    Jealous or not, i find it hard to understand why some of my daughters classmates were taken on a bowling trip by their mothers on the night of their classmates bas mitzvah. Granted, it was an over the top event but what is gained by boycotting a classmates party? All it does is make the bas mitzvah girl feel bad

    IT IS POSSIBLE!
    Guest
    IT IS POSSIBLE!

    I live in Chicago, where the unspoken rule is that everyone makes a nice beautiful bas mitzvah but in their house. I love it!

    Rebbe's school
    Guest
    Rebbe's school

    BR is a community school so yes they can make rules. What on earth are you teaching your daughter when you blatantly show them the rules are to be broken. Seriously all the people screaming jealousy…Please have a bit of class it’s nothing to do with jealousy …Teach your daughter’s there is beauty in simplicity.

    Your daughter must have very, very low self esteem.,,.
    Guest
    Your daughter must have very, very low self esteem.,,.

    When we were planning our then, Ben Yachid’s BM….naturally we wanted to go “all out” and when notifying my son that there would be a “Viennese table” for dessert (15 years ago…wasn’t so common) he was adamantly opposed insisting that he does not want to b different from his classmates and wanted a simple dessert until I convinced him that due to Kibbud Av, he would have the lavish affair so my son kept quiet! Yes, most over the top parties are for the benefit of the parents of the Bar/Bat Mitzvah child…who cares????? You ought to be sufficiently satisfied… Read more »

    Boycotting
    Guest
    Boycotting

    Yes #102 boycotting is sometimes the only way! If someone doesn’t follow the rules I would not let my daughter attend! It’s the only way some people learn! In theory they are the ones boycotting the school since they’re laughing and be littering school rules. If the school won’t do anything then the parents have to stand up for what’s right!

    its about making the abnormal..normal
    Guest
    its about making the abnormal..normal

    its not about limiting peoples spendings…everyone will agree that a wedding deserves a hall, musician, caterer, photographer etc. as for bat mitzvas the Rebbe and our tradition clearly frowned upon going overboard, so yes it is sad when those that can afford (which BH is many) break this and make a lavish affair….who can you blame for others not to want their daughter to feel deprived and not to feel the pressure of making her celebration any less lavish than her classmates…so more and more ppl imitate and the norm has become ridiculous and unaffordable…while those sticking to tradition we… Read more »

    BOTTOM LINE
    Guest
    BOTTOM LINE

    JUST LIKE THE SCHOOL ENFORCES SCHOOL UNIFORM, AND ITS A GIVEN , AND THERES NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT, THE SCHOOL CAN VERY WELL ENFORCE THIS , WITH NO TWO WAYS ABOUT IT !!
    PERIOD!
    ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT!
    AND IF THE SCHOOL DOES NOT ENFORCE IT , THAT MEANS, UNFORTUNATLY , THEY DO NOT CARE!

    END IF STORY!

    108
    Guest
    108

    Not so simple.

    School can enforce whatever they want IN school such as uniform etc.

    OUT of school people run their own lives and the school doesn’t get to decide what people do with their own time and money.

    Although they like to think it’s their right to it is not.

    Shocked
    Guest
    Shocked

    I’m appalled at the superficiality of the posters who think if you’ve got it, flaunt it. What values are you teaching your daughters? Designer gowns, flowers, catered fancy seuda… when will you stop? When you’re broke? We had all our Bat Mitzvot at home. No outsiders except my mother, my best friend & her daughter & the speaker. My husband wasn’t even there. Nothing lavish, everything home made, and they were beautiful. We did a nice project that the girls took home – we did give out laminated megillot for my daughter whose birthday is just before Purim. We followed… Read more »

    And another thing...
    Guest
    And another thing...

    I believe BR DOES have rules – my daughter stuck to them. Again, she made everything herself, she is very creative so the tables looked amazing. Food was home made.

    To #109
    Guest
    To #109

    The school can YES enforce baS mitzva rules out of school time. ( THATS IF THEY CARE)
    DO YOU KNOW HOW? It’s simple !!
    YOUR DAUGHTER IS DISMISSED FROM OUR SCHOOL IF SO!!!!!
    I can PROMISE you , no parent will DARE do anything crazy!
    PERIOD!
    One not need to be a rocket scientist to understand 🙂

    to 106
    Guest
    to 106

    I hope you don’t have to boycott….Based on your attitude, I hope you child isn’t even invited.

    Jealousy is a disease.

    Problem solved!

    The answer is within us
    Guest
    The answer is within us

    A school is supposed to teach our children in school. We are supposed to teach and guide our children at home. They are our children and we raise them and do our best to instill our beliefs in them. When schools try to control life beyond their doors – it becomes incredibly annoying to the parents and sometimes leads to double standards. We as parents know that this problem is throughout our entire life, like everyone mentioned with engagements, weddings…etc. Another family’s “wrongdoing” is not supposed to be ‘boycotted’ (coming from a place of hate). another family’s wrongdoing” is not… Read more »

    small Bar Mitzva
    Guest
    small Bar Mitzva

    One of my sons bar Mitzva was in the summer. He wanted it in camp Gan Israel Montreal. It was such a simple bm but the spirit and singing was nicer than my other sons Bar mitzvahs
    Parents discuss it with your kids and come to an understanding whats best for them.

    #105
    Guest
    #105

    The Rebbe once advised someone that his child should not feel different than his classmates and should make his Bar Mitzva the same style as his class. The Rebbe understood how a child feels, that he needs to fit in, that he needs to be the same – doesn’t mean low self esteem – just a natural reaction of children. Why all this discussion when the Rebbe specifically said not to make Bat-Mitzvas – only as a farbreingen, a melava malka. If you don’t want to follow the Rebbe’s instructions, don’t but don’t say it’s ok to do so. There… Read more »

    To 112
    Guest
    To 112

    A) That’s disgusting! To throw a Neshama out of school because the parents want to make a nice party? Is that really what yiddishkeit is about?

    B) It will never happen because the families who make the lavish parties not only do they pay full tuition but they are also the supporters of the schools and other institutions. Good luck using your bully tactics on them.

    iits like obama care
    Guest
    iits like obama care

    because some people fell between the cracks of normal insurance and medicaid, the entire medical system had to be destroyed, and ruined it for everyone. Kids need to learn from their parents to spend within their means, and schools cannot teach that. Parents need to teach it to their kids.

    TO: #94 Crown Heighter, FROM: The Thinking Man
    Guest
    TO: #94 Crown Heighter, FROM: The Thinking Man

    Not all children are created equal. Some girls have so little going for them that the only way they can feel good about themselves and become socially popular is by BUYING friends with their parents money. These girls are not charasmatic, they are not very smart or witty, they are not of specisl character, and they aren’t even cute looking. (Which are some reasons other girls are popular!) All these girls have is their parents money. Have rachmonus on these nebechs and allow them a moment to bask in the glory of feeling special by replacing their inadequacies with a… Read more »

    Lavish BM parties are just plain deplorable....
    Guest
    Lavish BM parties are just plain deplorable....

    The only chassidish group that I know of, who can down right openly defend spending insanely on BMs, are from here. I can’t even begin to imagine what the wealthy real “chassidish” families of Flatbush, Boro Park, and don’t even get me started with Williamsburg, would be thinking of these amazing posters, looking to defend themselves on their lavishly spent parties. Just because you have the money, doesn’t give you the rights to abuse it, in any manner that you see fit. The earnings that you richer families have, are the blessings we were given in the beginning of each… Read more »

    lavish bas and bar mitzvahs
    Guest
    lavish bas and bar mitzvahs

    i’m not at the stage in life where bas/bar mitzvahs are a frequent issue, but i think the main point here is being glossed over. that point , i feel, is this: The Rebbe let us understand that bar/bas mitzvahs are not the occasion on which to spend extravagant amounts of money, regardless of whether one is or isn’t financially blessed. if you like,get the bas/bar mitzvah child an out-of-this world personal gift, but stop putting the dagesh on the wrong thing – an in-your-face extravagant public celebration of this important milestone.

    I'm Not Rich And I Don't Care
    Guest
    I'm Not Rich And I Don't Care

    Hey, I’m not rich, and my Bas Mitzva party was in my house, and I had the time of my life. Some of my friends had bigger parties in halls, some had in their homes and I loved all of them. I didn’t care how it was set up, or anything like that. All I cared was that my friends were with me and that we would have a blast together. I’m 13 so I’m still going to Bas Mitzvas, and I enjoy ALL of them. I felt really good by my bas mitzvah because my parents and siblings really… Read more »

    if i was a rothschild .......
    Guest
    if i was a rothschild .......

    when lots of families struggling to afford the basics , when school like BR dosent have money to pay teachers on time -all rich must keep low profile and do modest events in CH .

    To 11
    Guest
    To 11

    My daughters also attend Beis Chaya Mushka, CH. We had a wonderful bas mitzva season with aidel events. Not only that but our girls had a school organized bas mitzva club to prepare them for a meaningful life.
    Heard that Shimi was hired for 12 (!) Bas Mitzvas at an E NY school. Talk about expensive and unoriginal.

    Issue here
    Guest
    Issue here

    12 year olds aren’t teenagers they are pre-teen it isn’t an issue of age it’s an issue of maturity.

    bas mitzvahs arent supposed to be weddings!!!
    Guest
    bas mitzvahs arent supposed to be weddings!!!

    i agree with this article 100%!!!

    Life Isn't Fair
    Guest
    Life Isn't Fair

    I feel that a Bas Mitzvah should be celebrated however the parents feel like spending on it. Everyone is different and that’s what makes life interesting. You may disagree with some people’s decisions but you can’t control that. Stop trying to make everyone equal. We aren’t equal and there will always be peer pressure. It’s your responsibility to teach your child that everyone is different and you’re going to try very hard to make her Bas Mitzvah nice even if it’s not going to be in a hall. Socialism isn’t right and we have the freedom to make whichever choices… Read more »

    So True!
    Guest
    So True!

    My bas mitzvah was simple and nice. we got a small place for free and me and my mother made most of the food. we played music from an ipod and everyone told me they really enjoyed. the same is with the birthday parties my mother throws for us. theyre very simple; no sleepovers or pool parties, but everyone always tells me and my siblings how much they loved it and my brother says he has the best birthday parties even though it’s all homemade. i totally agree with these articles

    My bas mitzvah
    Guest
    My bas mitzvah

    The bas mitzvah I had was simple It was in my small apartment I was probably one of the poor kids in my class and it was in the summer so a about ten girls came it was fun my brother was the dj himself and he is only about the same age as me then so it was fun we had simple food the whole bas mitzvah was 550$ and also we made jewelry bracelets so it was nice dessert was ice cream cake

    X