Create Account
ב"ה
Monday, 14 Sivan, 5779
  |  June 17, 2019

    ‘Steer Clear From Conversions’

    Israel's Chief Rabbi Yitzchok Yosef implored Chabad not to convert people to Judaism; Rabbi Shlomo Cunin: It's our policy. Full Story

    Chabad Eatery Behind Starbucks

    Next Story »

    Picture of the Day

    76
    Opinions and Comments

    To keep track of your comments, follow a conversation or flag a comment Login
    avatar
      Subscribe  
    newest oldest most voted
    Notify of
    Is this news?
    Guest
    Is this news?

    Everyone knows Chabad doesn’t do conversions.

    Says the Rebbe
    Guest
    Says the Rebbe

    HaShem makes geriim. We have Kohanim, Leviim, Yisraelim, children of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaacov. Geriim are b’nei HaShem, children of G-D. Vas iz hecher? What is higher?

    B"H
    Guest
    B"H

    It’s about time someone had the guts to say this. Many phony geirim are permitted free entry into Chabad circles, especially when there’s status and money involved. More often than not they are the ones responsible for stirring machlokes within a community. I’ve met too many shluchim who converted someone out of pity or self-interest. Let’s be clear: there’s no mitzvah for a goy to convert to Judaism.

    To #1
    Guest
    To #1

    What on earth are you talking about? Virtually every established shaliach boasts of some congregant he was megayer. If he didn’t perform the geirus with his own beis din he was instrumental in pushing it through another one. Open your eyes to the truth around you.

    Strange?
    Guest
    Strange?

    Interesting that so many others have the zechut, merit , to help the Geriim to become recognized Geriim. Obviously the Rebbe has a reason for telling the shluchim not to help make geriim.

    Couldn't agree more
    Guest
    Couldn't agree more

    After moving to Florida I couldn’t believe how many conversions or conversion classes some of the chabad shuls do. In one year I know of atleast 3 converts stopped practicing Judaism completely after a month, to the point that they were back to doing xmas etc. I know most places have a higher standard of screening. I even work with a woman, whose sole purpose in converting is to land a rich Jewish husband rather than just date them. She laughs and says horrible things about frum Jews and has conversion classes with the local shlucha. I’ve anonymously sent a… Read more »

    Reply to #1
    Guest
    Reply to #1

    Everyone SHOULD know.
    Unfortunately the reality on the ground is very different

    Chabad Geirim
    Guest
    Chabad Geirim

    ..are sometimes opportunists looking to make a name for themselves. When a shaliach converts one he does untold damage to hundreds if not thousands of innocent neshamos. There reaches a point however where right thinking people cry foul and the “leaders” are forced to account. I’m glad Rabbi Yosef had the courage to speak the truth. If only more shluchim would heed the Rebbe’s words.

    Taking our Rebbe out of context
    Guest
    Taking our Rebbe out of context

    With all do respect sounds like what the Rebbe said is being taken out of context

    Judging favorably
    Guest
    Judging favorably

    Although this is a Chabad site, I am sure many that are chabad, not chabad, jewish not jewish and gaerim who are intrigued with this post. To say the least this is a very sensitive subject and people should therefore be mindful to not hurt the feelings of those who are converts to Chabad and Judaism in general. Personally as someone who has lived in a few places and now Crown Heights, I can count many gaerim among my acquaintances, friends and even distant relatives and for the most part talking of those who have converted, they are dedicated and… Read more »

    Title
    Guest
    Title

    When you write in the title “it’s our policy” it makes it seem as if you are saying “it’s our policy to yes make geirim” when in actuality it is the opposite.
    Maybe there is another way to write it so it doesn’t lead to confusion.

    TO #3
    Guest
    TO #3

    Can you consider whether your comments may be offensive to a ger reading it? Veahavtem es hager enjoins is to be extra scrupulous in regards to the feelings of the righteous converts. Please be more sensitive. And to other geirim: know that you are absolutely and unequivocally accepted into the Rebbes circle and the Rebbes community no matter what some insensitive comment is thrown your way!

    To #12 - I am #3
    Guest
    To #12 - I am #3

    Your misguided liberal agenda has no place within the Rebbe’s makom. If anyone is offended by the truth it’s their own fault. And who are you to speak for the klal? Judging from most of the comments on this post you’re in the minority. Contrary to what you’d like to believe we the Jewish people owe phony geirim absolutely nothing.

    Process not the person
    Guest
    Process not the person

    The question here is the process of giur that it be kosher and be done by a proper beis din. It is a very complicated process that not everyone can do. This is not about accepting the person who has already been converted and is a Yid according to Halacha.

    To number 3 and 13
    Guest
    To number 3 and 13

    I am horrified by your remarks.

    I am a shliach who does not do geirus, per the Rebbes instruction, but am offended by your words, lanuage and tone.

    I challenge you to find the words “phony geirim” in the Rebbe’s sichos, maamorim or letters.

    Mivtza Mihu Yehudi, is not about attacking people.

    What's the halacha
    Guest
    What's the halacha

    The term “phony geirim” is thought provoking, I know a few people who converted halachically, with chabad’s help but after they divorced their Jewish spouses they renounced Judaism. One confided in me that she was in an abusive marriage and only stayed frum/married until all her kids were married, as to not ruin their shidduch prospects. This women believe in her original religion throughout her entire marriage and that’s the only thing that sustained her throughout the abuse. She now where’s s cross and is a very devout Christian. Is she still considered Jewish, if it was never in her… Read more »

    I second 15
    Guest
    I second 15

    The Rov is discussing a sensitive topic and of course is about ensuring genuine geirus.

    But one must be extremely careful in how we discuss it to not offend or humiliate a Ger (nor anyone else for that matter). This is a very clear Mitzvah De’Oirasa, mentioned many times in the Torah!

    A Ger Tzedek stands at a very high spiritual level!

    There

    to #9
    Guest
    to #9

    your correct, mostly every1 takes out of context the Rebbes words
    most people have no clue, who or what the Rebbe was or stood for. the Rebbe is a ohev yisroel and lover of all beings and creations. its a shame people use the Rebbs name

    Shliach who did not do geirus
    Guest
    Shliach who did not do geirus

    My father was a shliach and did not really support geirus. He always sent those that wanted to convert to other institutions that supported it. Some of them came out ok and live fully Jewish lives today. I know of other surrounding Shluchim who are happy to take on geirim. Some come out ok and functional and some not so much. Not a black and white issue, that’s for sure.

    non observant geirim who were originally m'gayer k'halacha...
    Guest
    non observant geirim who were originally m'gayer k'halacha...

    …fall into a decidedly gray category: are they, or are they not, Jewish? it is really difficult to know in advance who among those studying for geirus will actually keep halacha properly (or even honestly intends to keep halacha, even as they study.) lubavitcher rabbanim are not any more privy to this crucial information than are others. it is for this reason that they are discouraged from dealing with the whole inyan of geirus. i’m sure there are reliable rabbanim who deal with geyur and accept, at their own discretion, the responsibility of being m’gayer individuals who have done whatever… Read more »

    to 6
    Guest
    to 6

    If this woman is as bad as you say, record her comments and send them to the Rebbetzin. And sign your name! people take no notice of pashkvilen

    agree with 11
    Guest
    agree with 11

    yes to 11
    title is confusing,
    some geirim are honestly real about yiddishkeit, lets be sensitive

    שפיגל ירושלים
    Guest
    שפיגל ירושלים

    The Rebbe Shlita MHM is EMES and we need ACHDUS NOW MAMASH

    Ger is permissible
    Guest
    Ger is permissible

    Sefardim in general do not accept garim.
    Ashkanazim have no problem with a person becomimg a ger tzedek
    have you heard of Ruth, Rabbi Akivah, Shmaya VÁvtalyon?
    As long as it is authentic, every ger tzedek is a bracha!

    Misquote!
    Guest
    Misquote!

    As a Shliach, I rarely comment here. But this is important enough that clarification is needed. Neither the Rebbe, nor Rav Yosef, ever C”V underestimated the power of Giyur Kehalacha. The question is simply whether Chabad Shluchim defer potential Geirim to mainstream Botei Din, or process Geirim themselves. I had the tremendous Zechus to be involved in the Geirus of some very special Yidden. I find some of the posts here to be deeply offensive to these holy Neshamos. As a member of a prominent Beis Din put it to me: A Shliach’s inyan is Yemin Mekareves = warm, welcoming… Read more »

    Thank You!
    Guest
    Thank You!

    I am so happy for the clarity on this! That The Rebbe clearly said the shiluchim should steer clear from conversions!

    To #15
    Guest
    To #15

    I don’t believe you’re a shaliach. If I had to guess I’d say you’re either a ger or married to a ger. And if you are aware of the Rebbe’s “instruction” why do you have a problem with rejecting phony converts? Al pi halacha a goy is not permitted to convert for any reason other than for Hakadosh Baruchu. So again what’s really your problem?

    The World Needs More Geirim
    Guest
    The World Needs More Geirim

    Chabad rabbies should not do it because they are generally not trained for that. They are marketers for yidishkeit not dayonim.

    However the world will be a better place thanks to geirim, I know many and the excitement for Judaism that they have inspired me.

    one of the greatest things about Abraham Avinu is that he found GD.

    How many of you found GD and how many are just following what they were told is GD?

    Mazal tov! Beautiful!  Great article!
    Guest
    Mazal tov! Beautiful! Great article!

    This has been a serious problem around the world!
    At last it should be dealt with.

    Recording
    Guest
    Recording

    Is there a recording of the lecturers?

    So glad Rabbi Yosef had the courage
    Guest
    So glad Rabbi Yosef had the courage

    He sees the truth. He’s saying what must be said! We’ve been shocked to see what’s going on in a few Chabad Houses. Phony geirim converting for marriage and money. Completely scoffing at the mitzvos. Bringing shtus into the shul. Why are the shluchim doing this?

    To #26 and all
    Guest
    To #26 and all

    Bring the proof the Rebbe said it. Show the letter or the sicha

    To #20
    Guest
    To #20

    I’m blown away from your comment. Much of Today’s problem is from conversion. Are you for real?????
    Let’s start with sinus chinam, loshon hara, talking bad about others, not caring for others, are poor youth not having real education everyone thinking they are holier than thou, this is just the tip,of the iceberg.

    For #28
    Guest
    For #28

    It’s a shame that so many times when you go to chabad rabanim, you get sent somewhere else, because they aren’t trained or knowledgeable enough. Even basic dinei momonos you have to,go to a non chabad cuz they just don’t know

    To #27
    Guest
    To #27

    I don’t believe your observant. If I had to guess, your the type that talks bad about people,. Loshon hara and sinus chinam is the real problem. Even bad conversions Hashem has big enough shoulders to carry that burden, but sinus chinum and loshon hara, Hashem says he can’t tolerate

    Title is fine
    Guest
    Title is fine

    I’m a giur and am honored to be a part of the Jewish people, but the process has to be very careful and extremely reflective for the person. It is a very serious responsibility to take on. The person who wants to convert should be challenged and encouraged not to. Through that process they themselves will know if it is something they need in their life and are willing to struggle for. Only after they have been turned away three times should they be guided along the path by, yes, the right Rabbanim. There are many unique challenges for a… Read more »

    #28
    Guest
    #28

    Great in theory and yes we’ve all seen the rare geir who is authentic and not “dating” during conversion but please get your head out of the clouds. You sound very naive.

    To #37
    Guest
    To #37

    The previous Rebbe even had a goy married to,a yid to convert

    Clarification please
    Guest
    Clarification please

    Just to be clear, the policy we are talking about (and I agree with the comment that the article headline was not clear) is that Chabad shluchim should not be undertaking conversions ON THEIR OWN. In other words, if someone genuinely wants to convert and after having undergone the usual rebuffs from us still wants to convert we should be able to help facilitate that conversion but by sending that non-Jew to a bona fide, established beis din that is recognized within the frum world as being fit for doing these procedures, correct? We aren’t saying that Chabad should altogether… Read more »

    Mazal tov! Beautiful!Thank you
    Guest
    Mazal tov! Beautiful!Thank you

    To #32
    Rabbi Cunin himself supported the Chief Rabbi and stated that
    he had ” clear instructions from The Rebbe which forbade shluchim from making Geirim”
    The Rebbe also loved every Jew and also loved The Torah !
    Thes is a very important Torah Matter.

    Am yisroel
    Guest
    Am yisroel

    Technically and halachly all the hidden are converts, starting with Avraham avinu and then matan Torah. And also moshiach, coming from Dovid hamelech( rus was his grandmother)

    Thank You!
    Guest
    Thank You!

    To #16
    We understand that the halacha if a ger reverts back then it depends what was originally in their heart ; in your first case the woman never believed in Torah etc. The children are another matter .
    We see this is very serious , its about peoples identity !
    As Rabbi cunin said The Rebbe forbade shluchim to make Geirim”
    Like both your stories show , and I too am aware of other stories , this is no joke.

    No more geirim
    Guest
    No more geirim

    Simple solution: teach Sheva Mitzvos to any potential ger. We are not obligated to convert them and they are not obligated to convert #NoMoreGeirim

    More often than not they are the ones responsible for stirring machlokes within a community.
    Guest
    More often than not they are the ones responsible for stirring machlokes within a community.

    3# That’s a Horrible thing to say. You think gerim stir up machlokes- ? Jews born jewish can do that all by themselves with or without gerim. Once a person is megaired by an acceptable group of Rabbis he or she is a Jew, whether you like it or not. Just as the children of shluchim or other frum jewish people go off the derech – they have to answer to G-d , Not you for their actions . Have you stood in their shoes as a stranger possibly not being accepted or mocked ? The road they lead is… Read more »

    From A shliach
    Guest
    From A shliach

    If you have no experience other then the comments and opinions from your heiligah daled amos or your just a zealot that needs to voice his know it all, higher then thou opinions. Please DONT COMMENT! you have no idea what a shliach mostly in small town America goes through… coming into a town introducing Torah and Chassidus to Yidden for their first time since thier phony reform BAR mitzvah. And these same people have a wife and children…yet they become stuck…but if course the lamdonim from the Anash communitys will jump on the shliach thinking ” they do it… Read more »

    Proof
    Guest
    Proof

    Its funny after all these comments. Still no proof of letter or sicha from the Rebbe

    Shliach #45
    Guest
    Shliach #45

    One more thing… to any family that have been through the journey reading these comments and upset …don’t make anything of it, stay strong! keep growing. Hashem loves the struggle of His children Yaakov and Yisroel and he loves the effort of all his children Geirim especially! that’s why in Heshems Torah he mentions compassion for these Yidden over and over again.
    Your shliach repersents the Rebbe your shliach is here for you and the Rebbe is here for you!
    PS Many of the children of these familes are true chassidim and Shluchim around the world.

    Thank You!
    Guest
    Thank You!

    The article states the Chief Rabbi from Israel came ,and implored with the shluchim not to make geirim but to send potential geirim to Israel or Botai Din that deal with doing geirus.
    The shaliach who commented just proved he is unable to deal with it. Simple! Don’t! Please let the Beis Din that deal with this do their job.

    situation needs rectification
    Guest
    situation needs rectification

    The geirus, or rather non geirus situation, for small town shluchim needs rectification. At this point there is no address for small town shluchim that heave no bes din in their state or country to help the many ntermarried families they deal with daily, many of them living b’misiras nefash, L’mashel, a husband separating from his wife for 10 years.

    rectification
    Guest
    rectification

    Botei Dinim need to start accepting people from out of their state or country

    Moshiach will come from a GER!!
    Guest
    Moshiach will come from a GER!!

    Guess what people, Dovid hamelech’s great grandmother Ruth was a convert… will you not accept moshiach ben Dovid?

    If you're not a rov, please comments to yourself
    Guest
    If you're not a rov, please comments to yourself

    Wow is there a lot of hurtful words being tossed around here.

    The article itself is a nice article. Not sure why people are throwing in their opinions. Unless you’re a shliach, a rov, or on a beis din, not sure how this applies to you.

    Ploy to marginalize Chabad
    Guest
    Ploy to marginalize Chabad

    See it for what it is.
    Chabad can be at the forefront of every area in Yiddishkeit. We don’t need anyone’s approval.

    Thank you to those who are kind to Geirim
    Guest
    Thank you to those who are kind to Geirim

    I am a Gerress and some of these comments actually made me cry (esp. 3/13). It’s so sad and upsetting to see this is the attitude of Chabad towards Geirim, even tho’ the Rebbe comes from a Ger (if you claim he is a descendent of Dovid HaMelech). You call us “Phony Geirim.” Are you G-d that you can see what’s in a person’s heart??? Only Hashem knows a person’s real intentions and it’s sickening that you assume we have ulterior motives. And with a religion as rich and beautiful and wonderful as Judaism, who wouldn’t have ulterior motives? I… Read more »

    Thank You!
    Guest
    Thank You!

    We have to be very clear we are not knocking a sincere convert! The point is that the shluchim should not make converts . We cannot underestimate the effect this has on many families , It seems The Israel Chief Rabbi knows what he is talking about !!!! This is about time!!!

    My Two Cents
    Guest
    My Two Cents

    The finest, and I mean the finest, Jews that I have ever met in my life are Geirim. Their Avoda is sincere, they work on themselves constantly, I am very often in awe of their Yiras Shamayim, Ahavas Hashem and Midos Tovos. I am Shlucha and I come from a Chabad family seven generations back. Geze shebegeze. Halevai af unzer gezogt gevoren! They are Jews by choice, and its not an easy path to choose. They are the most precious of gems, in my opinion. Facing all odds, often against the wishes of their families, often losing their families in… Read more »

    Understandable why rav from israel said this
    Guest
    Understandable why rav from israel said this

    If someone wants to come on aliya its hard getting accepted for aliya if one is a ger. An investigation is made as to which rabbis converted the person and not all conversions are accepted as being jews. I seem to remember that someone converted by a chabad rabbi wasnt accepted by the israeli bet din. I believe thats why chabad was told not to do coversions by this rabbi

    TO #54
    Guest
    TO #54

    I (and any normal person ) feel terrible for you. dont worry about these negative comments. continue being the awesome neshama you are. ( # 3/13 , hes not even an observant person, hes just writing his hatefull feelings). its NOT a CHABAD thing, and for sure NOT the way the REBBE would ever feel. It just happens to be that most followers have no clue who or what the Rebbe is. ITS A SHAME !! The whole Klal Yisroel are converts, starting with Avraham Avinu, and for sure Moshiach comes from a convert. Stay strong.

    #56
    Guest
    #56

    What you wrote is beautiful. The only thing I must add is that I know many Jews who used to frequent a particular Chabad House only to stop going because of the influx of this. I won’t say what. I don’t want to offend. Nobody does. But please understand, you are turning off many, many Jewish congregants. More than you may realize.

    To #57
    Guest
    To #57

    Actually not, in general Lubavitch isn’t into conversions, we don’t do it ask the big ppl in Merkos from 770 that it’s something the Rebbe didn’t want, we are in the business of bringing non frum yidden closer to yiddishkeit with the goal of eventually becoming frum, never ever was Lubavitch into conversion, we we work with Jews that already Jewish & bring them closer to Torah & Mitzvos not Goyim looking to become yidden, it’s a big issue in a lot of Chabad Houses worldwide

    Am yisroel
    Guest
    Am yisroel

    Technically and halachly all the yidden are converts, starting with Avraham avinu and then matan Torah. And also moshiach, coming from Dovid hamelech( rus was his grandmother)

    Dovid HaMelech
    Guest
    Dovid HaMelech

    Not to take anything away from Rus but she was the great grandmother on his father’s side.

    to # 33
    Guest
    to # 33

    please read the comment again carefully before flying off the handle. in a nutshell it says that much of the problem of geirim for marriage who don’t follow halacha stems from the fact that the yidden they are married to don’t follow halacha; if the Jew who married the geir(ess) would keep halacha as they should the level of observance of the convert in the marriage would likely be greater. thus, their geiyur would be less questionable. p.s. in general, if something you read or hear isn’t making sense to you it’s a good idea to review carefully what you’re… Read more »

    Some of the comments here are so horrible - so much hatred
    Guest
    Some of the comments here are so horrible - so much hatred

    I am the son of father who was born Jewish and a mother who converted, and grew up in Crown Heights, went to Oholei Torah, and then on shlichus. In our shul we have so many wonderful geirim and children of geirim – inspired Jews who serve Hashem beautifully. The shlucha in #56 wrote beautifully and eloquently yet some of the other comments here are so horrible and hurtful – I’m sure the Rebbe is turning over in his grave at the thought that his Chassidim are espousing such hatred.

    Its amazing the ignorance and resulting cruelty some have spewed
    Guest
    Its amazing the ignorance and resulting cruelty some have spewed

    The revered Rabbi Yosef has his opinion based on HIS Israel experience. He is not the one to urge policy in Chabad. The uniquely California instruction from the Rebbe was to California. As it happens, there is a shulchan aruch, and Hilchos Geirus is part of Torah and the Shulchan Aruch. Overwhelmingly, shluchim have botei dinim do what botei dinim do: Geirus, Gitting, Kashrus etc. Since where is there a heter in Torah to tell a serious candidate for geirus that he cannot follow the path set out for geirim by the Torah? If you follow the shulchan Aruch, and… Read more »

    Ger tzedek
    Guest
    Ger tzedek

    I agree with #56 100! Some of the most amazing inspirational people who I know are people who through much hardship converted to Judaism. I am proud and honored to say that they are my friends. However, unfortunately where I live a lot of people convert for marriage and do not appear sincere (although I do not know how they feel inside). It seems obvious before the conversion and even more so afterwards. When I first moved to this city I was very surprised by the ease of the conversions and the fact it seemed pretty obvious that there were… Read more »

    To # 61
    Guest
    To # 61

    That’s not what we are referring 2, we are talking abt the last 50 + years when the Rebbe started Mivtzayim & Chabad Houses all over the world, yes we know we are all converts but that was during Matan Torah & Yetzias Metzrayim, we aren’t talking abt that we are discussing Lubavitch worldwide policy abt converts over the last 50 + years, so the concept of all of us being converts isn’t really applicable anymore bec that was thousands of yrs ago, ty

    this isn't hard to understand
    Guest
    this isn't hard to understand

    We accept geirim. We don’t make geirim. Other groups can make geirim and we’ll accept them but it is not something we should be involved in ourselves. Chabad is all about global outreach, to both Jew and non-Jew, and our message to non-Jews is that they are perfectly fine with the Noahide laws.

    #66
    Guest
    #66

    Finally someone saying what we’re all trying to say in the way we’re all trying to say it. All of the “offensive” comments are NOT meant towards sincere converts who convert without a “significant other” in the picture. Those are truly phenomenal people and we all view them with awe and respect.

    To those who are offended
    Guest
    To those who are offended

    I’ve read through all the comments and don’t see a single one knocking sincere converts. The ones blasting “phony geirim” are completely in line with the point of the rabbi’s message. So what’s your real beef if you’re not a phony ger??

    to #70 phony jew
    Guest
    to #70 phony jew

    even a phony jew ur not supposed to talk bad about

    הגר״ח נאה
    Guest
    הגר״ח נאה

    Very nice article. Just a technical note:

    R’ Chaim Noeh passed away in year 5714.
    R’ Yitzchak Yosef was born in year 5712.

    The Grach couldn’t really have been his teacher, so the text in the article is clearly not quoting R’ Yosef accurately.

    Let's be real
    Guest
    Let's be real

    Anyone who knows a chabad house community – can you name even one convert who is still observing mitzvos 10 years later? Be real! Converting for marriage almost never works long term. I’m sure this is why Rav Yosef was concerned.

    NOAHIDE LAWS!

    #73
    Guest
    #73

    thats so disrepectful
    how many officialy frum jews are keeping the mitzvos, including you

    This article is missing facts
    Guest
    This article is missing facts

    For the recird, the Rebbe did not hold of beauracrocy and politicizing of geirus typically found in the Israeli Rabbinate. This cam be seen in the dollars video of Gershon Mendel Garelik whi broght someone interested in becoming Jewish to the Rebbe for dollars and the Rebbe asks him what he is waiting for. By the next Sunday at dollars the man was Jewish already. It does happen at times that a shliach will organize a geirus when the Israeli Rabbinate has their agenda why they are sliw to process a potential ger. In fact, it is questionable whether the… Read more »

    Where, when and to whom did the Rebbe say this?
    Guest
    Where, when and to whom did the Rebbe say this?

    Anyone who claims the Rebbe directed Shluchim to not do geirus post now where this was written. If it was in private conversation please post with whom, when and what circumstances. If you’re not prepared to do that please refrain from quoting the Rebbe.

    X