By Riva Denburg
I always said that I would write my “Tell All” on shidduchim after our last child gets married and that I would even sign my name. Well, here goes.
I have been involved in shidduchim for 8 years (since my older sister started with her children). For many mothers out there that is not such a long time considering, but every mother will say how different each child’s shidduch process feels and how with each consecutive child it seems to get harder and harder.
Today, the system of that time-honored approach, a shadchan as the intermediary whether it be a friend, an uncle or a neighbor happens less and less. It is of course the best way, since presumably this person will know the boy and/or the girl and will set up a date for the couple that they firmly believe has a chance to become a shidduch. But a lot of things happened to this ideal and in time some well meaning people became “official” shadchanim in Lubavitch. The thing is we really aren’t in Clymovitch, Nevel, Schedrin or Anatevka anymore either.
Our community has become too big and too diverse to continue in this casual unprofessional way only. As a business woman I can see that no one can run a business with too much product and not enough sales.
Yes, my friends, if Shidduchim were a business it would be bankrupt.
Unfortunately too many shadchanim treat it like a business but without the heart a new business owner injects into his work to make it succeed. I understand that the shadchanim have busy lives of their own, their own children to marry off, their friends and families to deal with the constant phone calls, the pleas, the frustrations and stress. But…
But, if they took upon themselves the “official” title of shadchan for our community, they have to accept the responsibility. I know the system needs changing and I have many ideas for a proper shidduch system to be put in place, but a person who accepts the holy work of a shidduch has to be aware that they hold not only the life of a young girl and boy in their hands but also the entire families of the girl and boy.
How often have we as mothers lamented that the younger kids in our families are constantly bombarded with shidduchim talk? The stress permeates the home and family no matter how the mother tries to handle it discreetly among the younger children. Also, these young teenagers grow up quickly and sometimes they develop a cynical attitude and instead of embracing the excitement when it is their turn, they are hardened and weary from it all.
When a person accepts the mantle of being the shadchan for a shidduch between a girl and boy they should feel that they have the yoke of the world upon their shoulders. They should treat it as the most important mitzvah they can ever accomplish. In fact I believe it is the most important mitzvah! It is the mitzvah Powerball. It is chesed, it is Hakoros Hatov, It is Ahavas Yisroel, It is new generations of families, and I can go on and on.
Everybody gives a little laugh when they say the statement that a shidduch is like splitting the Red Sea – how difficult and miraculous it is when a shidduch comes to fruition.
I like to think of it in a slightly different context: How miraculous it is, that YOU were given a chance to make such a miracle happen! How unbelievable is it for you to have been given a chance to be the shliach for establishing a new family, new holiness for our world? Treat it as such! The effort, even if it doesn’t work, is also huge. One takes time from their daily lives, they worry, it takes precedence, and it takes away sleep, personal time. Etc.
I have made 9 shidduchim in between my times as a mother with children to marry off too. I know how hard it is to be involved in it. I know how many times I cried to my husband that I can’t do this; it’s too much, and it’s too hard. But, when I hear of a new baby being born to my BH happy couples, I thank the Aybishter for making me a shliach to such a wondrous mitzvah.
The main issue is the same across the world I find, whenever I speak to friends and acquaintances, the shluchim families, the business working families, everyone across the board: The shadchanim DO NOT call back.
Why do they give their phone numbers? And now, they can text! They don’t have to get into lengthy conversations. They don’t have to wait for the time zones to line up! Just email or text, or yes, call back “Hi, I received your call. I will try to get back to you in the next day, I am thinking of your child.”
How many of us have not received a call back and let the waiting build to frustration? How many of us have given up and lost self esteem from the pain? It’s just a phone call! Are the shadchanim listening? It’s your job! How can you not call someone back, especially when you know a father or a mother is waiting anxiously for that phone call?
To you it’s another name on an exhausting long list of requests, to the mother or father at the other end of the line it’s their child, their life.
I understand the dilemma, truly. There are only several hours in a day and you have to compartmentalize. Especially those of you who have other full time paying jobs. But if you are known as an official shadchan, BE ONE! Show respect to the process. If you arrange a date for a couple, make sure you tell the boy and his parent to call EARLY the next day to give a “review”.
If they live far away, tell the mother to speak to her son after the date so he can call back the shadchan himself if it will take too long until the mother or father can get back to you. Remember there is another family waiting to hear. The boy always gives the first response. If it is an unequivocal no, call right away too and tell the boy or girl. If one of the parents does not call back quickly enough, you, the shadchan call the other side. Show respect. That is really what shidduchim are all about? Respect for the family.
I am not going to get into the issues of the pretense or the “incomplete” information that is given by the shadchan to the families, but that is not their fault. No real estate broker will tell you how many holes the roof has, but he will say the building looks great. It’s your job as a parent to look into the boy/girl, to get information that will give you that feeling, yes, this can work, or no, “It does’t talk to me.”
If the shadchan “knows” something and doesn’t tell you, that’s another story. I always asked when doing my due diligence, is there something that I should be asking and did not? If I heard too long a pause.. it means to check further. Sometimes parents do make too many phone calls and that can be negative because we all know that every question, or thought you express to the friend of a boy or girl will get right back to them immediately.
But that is an article for another time, the dating process itself. This is about our system and how it can be fixed.
I have a proposition for the Vaad of Lubavitch whoever they may be. I know that Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky takes care of the shluchim and their families. But who is the person busy with the kehila? Why can’t we set up an organization for shidduchim? An official organization with a board and vetted shadchanim. Perhaps voted for by the entire Chabad community. Salaries would be given to the shadchanim for their services so they don’t feel unappreciated by the kehila.
Shadchanim wouldn’t feel more motivated to work on shidduchim for people that will pay them rather than people who cannot pay for all the effort a shadchan thinks they have put in for a mazel tov shidduch.
Every girl after seminary or a year of shlichus whenever she feels ready should come for an official interview, with the shadchanim. The shadchan should interview her with a parent and then alone. A Bochur should get interviewed the same way after smicha. At that time he pretty much knows if he is going on shlichus or business/school. He might not as of yet discussed it with his parents but the shadchan has to be clear on what the boy/ girl is looking for in a spouse.
Then, the shadchan can actually make suggestions based on some personal knowledge instead of hearsay and a “resume” that reads like a hallmark card. I think it can work.
I know that many young people do go for interviews but often it is treated as a furtive, slightly embarrassing show. The shadchan is in middle of making dinner, or running into 770 for Maariv and glances at the bochur. That is not what I mean. A comprehensive application and a common sense matter of fact approach.
We all of us agree, our community is in crisis with this issue. We have so many things to contend with but one of the main issues is the constant influx of girls and boys coming from out of town to live in Crown Heights for shidduchim. Many come without family, or contacts. The friends they made in seminary are also busy with their own families and shidduchim.
This can be a bonus to parents out of town and I am sure that a registration fee would be a righteous expense since the shadchanim would meet the girls and boys.
The shadchanim would have to have weekly meetings to discuss progress, to divide the shidduchim according to their individual strengths and the group should be equally divided among women and men. Of course an attorney would be needed to provide confidentiality agreements for the office.
We have to take it out into the open. An official organization, an office, a matter of fact approach, optimism for the community and for sure a more unifying approach to this parsha.
I meant no disrespect to the shadchanim I know. In fact our last shidduch happened only because I trusted the shadchan (so thank you Raizy).
If we all agree to stop being passive, to stop complaining and to work on this as a community, we will not see lovely older girls walking and commitment-phobe young men passing them on Kingston Ave not seeing that their zivug is walking right across the street.
I wanted to thank all the shadchonim for the great job they do. I think all of them do whatever they can to fulfill their potential given to them by Hashem. She Shadchonim are shluchim of Hakodesh B’ruchu who really is THE SHADCHAN. Not all shadchonim are the same and not all of them are able to be very efficient or sensitive. One thing we have to understand, that things which happen to us, all things come from Hakodesh B’ruchu- through things that happen to us or people we meet throughout our lifetime. It does not help you to runf… Read more »
I need your help. My daughter is back from Seminary (she is sweet, beautiful, and smart but then I am her mother…) and I need names of good shadchanim. Can anyone recommend a devoted shaddchan? We live in Florida but she can date up north as well. thanks in advance.
After reading your article, I feel that you should head all the Shadchanim, firstly by becoming an “official” Shadchanter, and devoting your time towards making many more successful Shiduchim. If you could could give out a phone number and the best time to be reached, myself and many others will surely use your services. Thank you Riva for clearing things up. Mrs. S. of CH
Hashem promises that if we look after His children (ie. each other, our fellow Jews) then He will look after our children.
So, if we want Hashem’s help with shidduchim for our children, we must actively suggest shidduchim for our friends’ children.
Let Hashem worry about your kids, and you should rather spend time thinking about who could possibly be suggested for other singles. Then Hashem will cause suggestions to come up for your own kids.
Let’s hear good news!
Kol Hakavod Riva, for taking the time to bring this important issue to everyone’s attention. Most people grumble in private but don’t make the effort to open up a dialogue. I do not get the feeling, from your article, that you are “bashing shadchanim”; rather it seems to me that each parent, child, shadchan, friend, must look within themselves and examine their own behavior…….have I been respectful to the shadchan….have I been respectful to the parent/boy/girl…………. There is a need for all communities to focus more on proper midos and how to treat each other bain odom lachavero. Any shadchan… Read more »
I have been on the scene for a year already, I actually made a shiduch for a cousin of mine.I think there are 4 problems that contribute to the shiduch crisis in general. Problem # 1 Parents do way to much research, no one is perfect your always going to hear 1 or 2 things about a Bachur or a girl you dont want to hear. Stop being so picky if you heard alot of good things let them go out and decide! Problem # 2 The boys and girls themselves are to picky and they cannot commit it’s a… Read more »
The article was not a bashing of particular shadchanim.It was about the asytem and yes no one said the shadchanim were not for the most part decent people and caring etc. Just do their jobs wioth respect! Riva never said the shadchanim are in it for the money but maybe the pay as you go for every set up date is also a good idea. Whatever, makes it more workable! BUT: ” Chabad Lubavitch is not responsible to organize any system for any cause or anyone?” You must be kidding! That is exactly the opposite of what The Rebbe always… Read more »
I couldn’t have said it better myself! RIGHT ON tHE MONEY!!!!
YASHER KOACH!!! Finally, I see a Lubavitcher who agrees that the dating system in Lubavitch has gone haywire. It’s incomprehensible that we are the only Chassidishe group that dates like the Litvishe. If only singles met in a Tzniyusdike manner in a home setting, at resonable hours, for a reasonable length of time, and a reasonable number of times, how many heartbreaks could be avoided and issurim kept…
Dear Riva Shidduch crisis as you call it cannot be blamed totaly on the shadchanim. There are so many causes. That is an issue in itself. Shadchanim put their energy and their essence into making a zivug work ,yet we cannot totally rely on them. A shidduch is min hashomayim (as everything else is) and we are here in this world just to make a proper keli. WE AS BELIEVERS do not rely on “nedivim” as the verse in Tehillim teaches us.Once we have the emuna and trust that it is Hashem who happens to send us the right shadchan… Read more »
These are great ideas. 78: Speed dating aounds like fun. I think it is awkward to go on a blind date with a person because I usually feel presured to stay out for at least one hour and that does not include the drive to get there or the drive home. Sometimes I have felt after only thirty minutes that I want to go home. This idea will ease some of the tension because there will be a forced departure. If someone is a “no” then it only lasts eight minutes with no hard feelings afterword because of no expectations… Read more »
This very complex issue does not have easy answers, but I would definitely have liked to see a come back to what a chassidishe shidduch process should be, especially when this has been totally forgotten. It was always the parents responsibility to look for the right zivug of their children, after discussing with them what is important for them. The children only got involved once a suggestion became serious, they did not have to to through all the difficult moments that most parents go through up to that point. It would be nice to see this whole concept of “dating”… Read more »
Very Well said!!
my heart goes out to you.i too have a developmentally disabled son and ….it’s not easy.anyways my kids are almost at the shidduch parsha but not yet so it may be easy for me to say but i truly believe that anyone not interested in my children because of their brother doesn’t belong in my family.Hashem should help you find your childrens ‘ z ivugim sson! esther weiner
Mrs. Tziril Frankel from LA is an amazing shadchan!
you can call her, she will not look down at anyone. her only interest is to help people!
#127, u can give her a call, maybe shell have some good ideas 🙂
I wrote this about the system. I wrote this to express that I feel there is a lack of feeling shown to the parents by shadchanim and A SOLUTION FOR CHANGE. I did not expect such an outpouring of frustration, sadness, stress, pain . I have gotten ALOT of private emails and calls too and some were from shadchanim. One who feels I owe an apology for voicing my feelings and “making things worse?” Why? Did I say anything in my article that was not confirmed? Did I say anything that was untruthful? Obviously I did not judging from the… Read more »
The basic hakoras hatov must be shown to a shadchan. When I say basic i mean basic. When a shadchan sets up your child a few times (even once for that matter) call him or her up and say THANK YOU! yes THANK YOU! I appreciate your time (OR MANY HOURS) that you spent for my child. Most of the time the shadchan doesn’t even know you and is giving so much selfless time and devotion for you and your child just to help another yid find their bashert. Even when setting up a time and place sometimes it could… Read more »
excellent, simple and easy to do idea!!! collive – you’ve already done so much in this area, with these articles – can you add this feature too??? so simple, and so smart – who was the shadchan?
i went out with your daughter i believe, and i really didnt think she was all that great. But boy do i know someone for her. you should totally have our shatchan set the 2 of them up.
call my mother for the info
Yossi
P.S
anyone have a good chasidash girl for me?
Do you also ask why he pays for the date?
well maybe she was just busy?
the rebbe keeps saying that we have to do our share and hashem does his, with the rebbe bracha we married and with chana gorowitz saying everything comes from hashem, it is quite true that without a name or what ever the reason,l feel push aside,as we have a family of handicapped of well capable put together people,thank g-d all of my children are strong,proud jews,but we have handicappes, the eyes or the ears and it’s tough! people don’t want to touch us. you can see my son on the special needs bar mitzvah, he,moshe maness k’ah, did with his… Read more »
I am 25 ke’h.. I’d like to think i’m normal.. yet I get few if any shiduchim offers..so alas I have actualy forgotten about shiduchim.. the only time it dawns on me is when I read col..
Oh and I know thousands upon thousands of people.. I must have fallen through the cracks
if they think i would do such a thing then they surely shouldn’t take their time to call me and ask such important questions.
my mother is a shadchan, and i must say that all that you are saying goes to show you dont know how much work goes into every shidduch. being a shadchan is a 24/7 job–literally! when shes not on the phone, shes meeting someone, or shes thinking, but her mind is always on this! my mother doesnt charge anything, and doesnt even get paid, sometimes not even for making a shidduch! you have to realize that shes human and bh has a big family kah, and has a life! even though she is working 24/7 she may not be able… Read more »
as with everything else people just have ot be respectful, If u’re not interested in the girl/boy don’t shlep it say it right away , it only gets harder the longer u shlep it. Be honest don’t drey a kop. of course u have to do u’re research and ask people that r close to u, cuz everyone else is only going to say good things. and mothers there is only so much research u can do let u’re son have a say in the matter too. In the end HE has to be the one that likes the girl… Read more »
i AGREE WITH U PEOPLE R ALWAYS CALLING and when I ask who they r they don’t want to say . MY CHILDREN ALSO GET CALLS ABOUT THEIR FRIENDS and the caller doesn’t want to reeal who it is , it isn’t right it gives a very bad impresion of u whoever u r I sometimes feel like saying I can’t talk to u unless I know wh u r .
they aren’t trying to abuse your rights. shidduchim is a confidential process. thats why people tend to like to stay anon. so don’t take it personal. think about the fact, that if they tell you who they are, you may be more subjective… may tell your yenta dvusha neighbor that so and so called you about ____, and oh what a….. and then the whole crown heights has to know… bekitzur, these matters are better off remaining as discreet and confidential as possible.
THERE IS A REASON FOR THE NEGATIVE ATTITUDES , YOU AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION!!
i work in a school where we have a few girls on shlichus every year.sometimes people call me about these girls but never introduce themselves.even when i ask their name they say something like”what difference does it make”.i always tell them if you want to subject me to what amounts to an interrogation about a person that i work with i can not speak to an anonymous caller;it’s just doesn’t seem right.i respect a person’s right to privacy but please respect might right not to feel abused.
It is always a pleasure to work with nice, appreciative, and grateful people. Why would anyone want to work with people who display negative attitudes? It is understandable that there are many frustrated parents out there who didn’t expect the shidduchim process to take so long; however, taking it out on the only person who can help you is counterproductive.
Wouldn’t you choose to work with people who are nice rather then those who aren’t?
what kind of a person are you looking for???
Mazal Tov to you on your daughters marriage. It is wonderfull that you were able to successfully make a shidduch with local shadchanim. Many of us haven’t been able to. You are well connected in Chabad so that may have been a significant factor. I have to agree that the system is not working for the majority. And I believe the shadchanim are trying when they want to , with whom they want to. The question is , do you fit their criteria? No call backs, no answers, list of names being given and ignored ….. They do choose whom… Read more »
Thank you Riva for addressing the shidduch issue exactly how it is!!! Your idea for creating a vaad for making shidduchim is a wonderful one . Other writers mentioned officicial shidduch groups in major cities . that is also a very very good plan. NOW we have to put it into action!
If we begin right away we could have our boys/girls engaged during the summer! Who are the people that will put it together?
Riva, you are the epitome of what a good shadchan should be. I have had the honor of having you successfully work on a shidduch for one of my children. You are not a “professional” shadchanit; you do the job because you truly care. There is surely no shadchan who is more busy than you are. You run a successful business of your own. You are always there for your children and grandchildren. You are always there for friends. You are always there for the community. Chesed and ahavas yisroel are part and parcel of your being. Yet, you can… Read more »
I am 26, and will iyH become the ripe old age of 27 come December. I am single, unmarried, and slowly becoming hopeless. I date, I meet respected boys from good families, and after the third or so date, we come to the conclusion that we are not “for” eachother. I am thin, I am average heights, I dress well, I am sophisticated, and I try my best to always be kind, well-mannered, and optimistic. I do not want to become hardened, I do not want to becme bitter, and I do not want to be sad. I want nothing… Read more »
I am a single bochur. A friend of mine asked me if I could be a reference for him in the shiduch department. I was flattered by the request and happily agreed. Even though I live overseas from where my friend is located I have gotten a few calls from shadchanim regrding him. I had what I consider to be meaningul informative conversations with each of them. Then about 3 weeks ago I received a call on my cell phone from a shadchan overseas (where my friend is located). I couldn’t really take the call as I was busy, so… Read more »
One of the shadchans I went to that charged for an interview told me that your husband does not need to be your best friend. Hello??????? Is it ok to marry someone that you just “kinda” like being with??? The other shadchan my parents paid for forwarded me an email from the mother of the guy saying that they looked into me but it was not for them. That mother was very courteous but how unprofessional of the shadchan!!! Both of them did not come up with even one suggestion. Thank you Raizy E for making my shidduch!!! Thank you… Read more »
seriously its ridiculous already i married off 6 kids pretty sucsessfully but my next is soooo hard i dont know why everyone says not for me thank god no more after him i mean it’s so expensive we dont have a problem with money baruch hashem but it is
moms and dads who dont return the calls to the shadchan and leave the other family waiting?? parents on both sides must return a call to shadchan asap not 3 days later EVEN if all they are going to say is ‘we need a bit more time’
COLLive, please take this idea to heart
you mention in the article that the boy always gives an answer first after the date. Is that so? Is it because he has the upper hand or the opposite?
i actually think that shiduchim cannot be run as a business. the shadchanim who email instead of speaking to a live person… feels like a waste of time! even worse- instead of the shadchan calling back to give the respnse of the other side.. we get an email with their response to the shadchan!! heloooo why do i have to see what they said about my daughter? so yes emailing may be efficient and quick.. but not very productive! shiduchim have to be done with convincing.. verbally.. and with passion.. just being an intermediary emailer isn’t going to help! thanks… Read more »
Same story with shadchan taking a fee! and did u hear? it actually went up to 250 i heard.. but i got it at the diccount of 180.. i never got any offer from this particular shadchan. What did I pay for? For him to spend hours researching a list and emailing??? How will that help me if i get no calls?
A good idea to encourage Shadchanim to do their job right would be to require all engagements posted on ColLive to list who made the Shidduch in addition to the names and places of residence of the Chosson and Kallah. This would truly reveal to everyone who are the most active and successful Shadchanim and give them an incentive to do their job right.
i thought that is why there are interviews!
when i started with the whole shidduch process i was told to go for an interview – i went ready to really describe myself and what i was looking for…
but the shadchan didn’t even give me a chance to really describe myself – i felt like i was just being added to a list with phone numbers
i m sorry to tell u but with all expenses that there are to a dates lechaim and wedding not everyone can afford to pay 1000$ plus most of you are probably want a chasideshe bohrim i would like to tell u most of chasideshe bohrim have little money so make of your mind u want frum bohrim with no cash or no berad with $, shadhan is A MITZVA its either you do it or not if u can not that just dont
where you from do u also have this problem with shidduchim it wasnt only me it was many others i know unfortunatley found out when they were married and engaged
THE BOYS WANT ONE THING: ACTUALLY 2 THINGS: A BEAUTIFUL GIRL, AND A THIN GIRL. All the rest is bla bla bla, family, yichus, money, brains, talent, nothing worth. Those are the excuses they give, but if a beautiful girl comes up all these excuses fall away.
im not complaining but she has a point the shidduchim are lazy i had a shidduch and the shadchannet was probably too lazy to look through alot of her back ground and i found out when i went on a few dates and went across the world to date her that her secrets i didnt know till after those few dates were terrible…..she had many skeletons in her closet and very bad ones and it hurt to find out at that time cause i liked her but she wasnt for me if she still did these things…
If every single in Lubavitch would be REQUIRED to register on ChabadMatch and every Shadchan in Lubavitch would be REQUIRED to be part of ChabadMatch, we at least wouldn’t have the problem of not knowing who out there could be shaiech for our child. If we had this simple way of narrowing down who matches, and that that there’s no theoretical “someone else”, singles would be much less ambivalent about making a decision to marry and the whole process would be so much less painful and quicker.
of the un-official shadchonim.
Please take a minute to list some names on this forum of other shadchanim to call.
Who knows? You’r’e suggestion of who to call might actually be the first step into making a shidduch – a zchus that Hashem will remember!!
Thank you!
this has been said before but we have to say it again. anyone can be a matchmaker! newlyweds with still single friends….neighbors…..relatives…..please give it a try and call!!!!!!
You are soooo right. That is also there is burn out by shadchanim. It is a shlihus as well ad a real zechus to make a shiduch. Only of people would understand it
to no. 18, my email address is [email protected] Will be happy to help…
I would gladly put funds towards this new and crucial organization if it was launched. There are too many disillusioned older singles who are slowing dropping out the system….myself being one of them.
First of all, the bubby who wrote about young Israel style practices has a point but not neccessarily for our ” CHASSIDIC” community. Perhaps a variation of that? The 8 minute J date thing is also a point but people will only judge by looks and not by content. Alot of first time daters will be tongue tied and not have the confidence to create a good impression. I mentioned that I had alot of ideas for that aspect of the shidduch process too. I did not know if I should outline them till I read these comments, but now… Read more »
I have boruch hashem married off 6 children ka’h and each with different shadchonim and I have only good things to say about each one in their professionalism and in the way they dealt with the shiddach. There ARE wonderful people out there doing wonderful things
This article is generating quite the buzz! Kudos Riva for speaking out! As a close friend, I can honestly say- with full sincerity, that Riva only wants to aide the shidduch process, to ease a mother’s heartache, to offer a dependable solution, and to iy”H allow our community the opportunity to celebrate in many more simchas. Noone is here to “bash” the shadchanim, we inherently trust their instincts, we know they mean well. We appreciate their hand. However, we need to become extreme in our thinking, we need to dig deeper, and we need not waste another moment! Riva, thank… Read more »
Parents should arrange their children’s marriage while they are still in elementary school. It would make the process so much easier.
Dont complain, because the system in france is worse!!!
Theres no Shadchanim there…..
haha,
I think you’re talking about me…not I didn’t write that..I like the idea of that group but I can’t say I know it in a way that I would recommend it.
~ Eli
The problem is that shadchanim don’t know the guy or girl personally, so they can’t really get a feel for the person. hence the matches that the y do set-up don’t work often. One other issue is, guys and girls setting an image in their mind before they even would go out, based on a picture and rumors. Just meet the person!
I honestly don’t get the point of this whole shadchanim bashing. You don’t like them? Don’t use them. Maybe we should open a lawyer bashing site and doctor bashing site and a store owner bashing site?
Shadchanim don’t have a monopoly. Take your life in your own hands and leave the shadchanim alone. And by the way… bashing them all day is a great way to get more people to enter this business…. what a great solution to the shiduch crisis. Chaim Levi
Instead of having 2 boys and 2 girls over at our meals, maybe we should have over a few boys, then at a different meal a few girls, and the family can then work on creating Shidduchim. I lived as a single girl in CH for a few years, and believe me the problem was not that the boys and the girls did not know about each other, the problem was that they knew tooo much about each other.
Valid point, its a huge problem when the boy or girl don’t know what they are looking for. I read a wonderful book called “Dating Secrets” where this women undertook upon herself not to find shidduchim, but rather to help people figure out what they are looking for, and why they are finding it hard to find their bashert. Obviously, we don’t know why the right one doesn’t come till it comes, but this makes a keli to help find the right one quicker.
dear riva,i’m sorry you and so many others have had such a difficult time with shadchanim however i don’t think it’s fair to to say “the shadchanim” are…..they are each indivisuals.my dear friend gives her heart and soul to the shidduchim she’s involved with ,to the detriment of her home business and she doesn’t ask for a fee.everyone who needs shidduch should find their bashert very, verysoon!
Out there, there is an 8 minute shidduch process. It works like this. you bring 8 bochurim and 8 girls together in a room. you give each bochur 8 minutes maximum with each girl. each bochur and each girl have 8 cards. one for each bochur/girl that they meet. right after the 8 minute meeting they jot down initial feeling. like would I want to meet him/her again or not. hand the cards in to the facilitator and he can work it out. who will meet who again. AND NOW FOR ALL OF US. Lets not be too righteous for… Read more »
These so called lists do squat! bochurim lists and the girls list are outdated by 5 years at least. ChabadMatch.com is also as I have been on there for a year now and have gotten nothing at all. So l don;t think a list will do.
I think you should learn how to spell ANGEL before finding one!
to #45
Your idea to start a shidduch committe in each city is an idea that we are forming now in California. A group of women are calling the parents of all single boys/girls on the west coast and asking them basic info.about them. They are putting together a list of all these available singles.
If other major states such as Florida, New York , Chicago Montreal………will have a shidduch committee with their list of girls/boys we will be able to help match them.! let’s give this a try.
At the end of the day its easy to complain but if the Rebbe taught us anything its to take action and do something about it.
your the IDEA presented in # 51 is a great and should be implemented
The situation is complex and we are all challenged by it.
There is a solution!We are helping one another by participating in the Chabad Shidduch Group. Women meet together, and men are interviewed. We share the profiles that have been presented. We network and WE are ALL Shadchanim. Join us. Let’s help each other!
Contact us:
hey
i dont like these comments they are to long to read lol
Thank you.
My mother does not consider herself a shadchan. She considers herself a shliach – a shliach of Hashem – and she is the first one to admit that her “ideas” are min hashamayim. Most of the shidduchim she made just came to her, seemingly out of nowhere. She is hashem’s shliach and sometimes, ideas don’t come. What are you going to do? Blame the shadchan? She works selflessly and tirelessly on shidduchim every single day. When she is not on the phone, she is constantly brainstorming of ideas. Why doesn’t she call you back, you ask? By the time she… Read more »
Why doesn’t every “Non-Shadchan” couple make it their business to try and find a shidduch for at least one of their single friends. And no I am not niave, I know people do try, but if everyone really made a hachlota to go out that extra mile, and really pulled all their resources together, perhaps 1 out of 10 will be successful, and then dozens of people will meet their barshert. I honestly believe that this is the best way for a shidduch to come about (that is how I got married). That a friend was the shadchan, who knew… Read more »
for being open and adding to the discussion. Firstly, the previous Vaad in CH DID hire someone. When I emailed her, I never heard from her,ever. Rabbi Groner said that the REBBE said you should first pay your shadchan, while you are looking, a deposit! I did it. My shadchan worked so hard for my daughter. He constantly thought “out of the box”.
To # 19 . 44 and 47 you are right on target !!! Unless you are a Shaddchan , you will never know the hearhache that comes with the job ! The dirty laundry that we have to deal with . The endless calls we have to make. The endless hours on the phone late at night . And the most difficult of all : when both parties agree to go out and then one of them decides to back out – what do you tell the other party and still have them look like a wonderful potential ???!!! Yes… Read more »
As with every profession, there are some shadchanim that are good and there are some that are not.
Some are official, but still have the sensitivity and devotion towards their “job” ( as no. 7 pointed out), and then there are some that will only meet the girl/boy with the required prepayment, and they must have a resume and picture of them stored in their database, and they want some sort of payment eventhough they did not put together the eventual shidduch, and to them being a shadchan is a business to make the buck and nothing more.
I am very pleased to see the comments I have read so far. I did not “BRAVELY” put my name on this article just as a forum for conversation. I sincerely hope we can find solutions. WE HAVE TOO. Considering the amount of young people not married, the amount of sadness, disillusionment, the sometimes not positive changes that “waiting” brings to frum girls and boys, we are in a crisis zone that is really not recognized by many parents and community members. By the way, I admire the smug self assurance of #9. If it really is so easy for… Read more »
parents should meet about this. The girls and boys are the best shadchanim they know their friends better than anyone else. Lets start a friends based system where if someone went out and it did’n’t work for them but they think it would be good for someone else and they suggest it……… this can work # 51 count me in!
u have a good idea, to have the boys and girls involved with the shadchan and if they suggest someone that they think is shayach the shadchan should pay them something. THE FRIENDS ARE THE BEST! They actually know the boy /girl well and this system should be implemented.
I can remember when several people suggested a certain girl for my son. So my ayshes chayil approached a noted shadchan lady and asked her to set it up. So do you know what this shadchanteh answered? She said this shidduch would never do, because the families are so different. Suppose, she said, the two families now have to sit together at a simcha, and one bubby is sitting next to the other bubby. They would have nothing to talk about. So that is why she couldn’t set up this match. It is this sort of attitude that is causing… Read more »
I am 74 years old and when I was a girl (and I was a Beis Yaakov girl) we had appropriate MIXING of young men and women. We had Young Israel and other venues to get to know bochurim, work on community projects together, TALK. We did not rely on shadchanim who knew NOTHING about us. We relied on friends, neighbors, family and our own (get ready!…) FRIENDSHIPS with bochurim from Young Israel and simchas which were NOT separated. It is outrageous to have gender-separated weddings, for example. Good grief, this is a fine article but a little common sense,… Read more »
“I have yet to meet a shadchan who does it for the money” Are you kidding me??? Let’s start with shadchan #1 her rules for the meeting were ‘bring x amt of money in cash’. we had our meeting and she set me up with a guy soon after (the whole process on that was rude, but i wont get into that now) and any time since then my mother has called for suggestions, she’s told her “there are other shadchanim besides me that you can call” is that really her place to say?? we gave her money to help.… Read more »
The problem is that we are raising girls that do not want the kind of boys that we are raising!!!!!! The problem is that dates are happening!!!! Shadchanim are making dates!!!! They are just not making SHiDDUCHIM!!!! The problem is that girls and boys are dating 10-20-30 differents guys/girls. they are getting dates! They are just not getting married! The problem is that everyone is busy looking for what they WANT not for the kind of person that would be good for them. Good Luck Riva, I commend you for caring but it’s the singles themselves that will have to… Read more »
I totally agree with having an organization to speeden up the Shidduch process! There is no system whatsoever…And people pretty much have to make shidduchim for their family and friends which isnt always easy! Whoever can set up an Organizaton that works..G-d Bless you!
what does pictures have to do with #9? I do agree with some mothers being the problem . granted u must research and look into things very carefully, but some mothers think they have to interview the girl, meet her ,… let u’re son have an opinion he may surprise u.
You are very right, if parents would not look so much in to the family ; is this a Geza family (like Riva says Klimovitch Tashkent or Nevel ) a Choshuveh Family, a Shluchim family, a rich family…..there would have been much more shiduchim….unfortunately, instead of making researched and concentrating about the Boy and girl whether they are Mentchen , especially whether they are a good match etc..etc…the parents are first and foremost looking in the family …A Friend of mine told me on at least 7 proposals “these families are not what we are looking for ”……. In that… Read more »
I’m a born and raised Floridian, 20 year old girl and I’m already fed up with the system. I’ve gone out with guys who were on medication, who were lazy, sloppy, and didn’t know what they wanted to do in life. I’v gotten interviews with shadchanim that seemed to have “lost” my number and put my email in their spam file. I’ve been let down too many times.
So now that you were this beautiful article, now what?
Just pass this along to Zaki. He will make it happen for us!!!
Riva, I liked your article. Yes, there is a crisis. No, I have to clue how to make it work, but I too have many thoughts on the subject. Let me say, that I have not finished marrying off my children, so therefore, though I would like to cannot sign my name. I too have made more than10 shidduchim (can’t remember, and my point is not to try to count). Yes, I am thrilled to see them wakling around the stree, and yes, it’s a wonderful feeling to see them, happy and with family. No, I never did it for… Read more »
I’m impressed. These thoughts cross many mothers minds on a constant daily basis, but, often, we do not see a mother that will come forward and speak out. The shadchanim try their best, we know, but, in today’s day and age, the care, the thoughtfulness, has been almost all but lost. He’s a boy, she’s a girl – OKAY! LET’S MAKE IT WORK! Unfortunately, matching two people, to people who are going to become one whole person takes more effort and far more time put in. Chas V’shalom do I mean to put down a shadchan, I am merely saying,… Read more »
I will tell you from experience that the Shachonim are up all hours of the night working very hard to make things happen. Keep in mind they also have a job during the day.
I blame the Parents who are digging and digging and make it more difficult for a Shidduch to happen. I agree that a system needs to be put in place for those in need, Pay fee to a Bochur or Girl that suggest a Shidduch to a Shadchin that works. The funds for this are quite important and are available.
to no.9 – we’re proud of you!!!
Someone has got to put an end to the picture business.
Mothers- since when do you decide what your sons will be attracted to ? It is also an indicator of what kind of meddling mother in law you will be.
Boys – If your decision is based on a picture, then good luck to your future wife with you being so vain and shallow.
It’s one thing to find a picture of the girl beforehand, where’s your shame in asking for it?
be mentchlich and call the shadchan back when u’re not interested as quickly as u call him/her back when u are interested don’t leave them hanging.
nowadays it means nothing for a girl to go out 5,6,even 7 times
especially sinc u say she can afford to be pickyu’re putting her on a pedestal , she’ll always think there is something better out there be careful she may have tons of offers but u’re attitude is too high and mighty beware!
Everybody knows the problem and everybody knows the solution. But do they really? How is a shadchan supposed to know well a bochur from LA and a girl from Miami? Yes our community is all over the place, ka”h. Who is paying the shadchan for all time put into shidduchim (and it si a lot of time) and they get nothing for their time, often not even a Thank You? Should the shadchan leave their day job? Should the shadchan ignore their own children, like serving them dinner, helping with the homework, tucking them in? And then the shadchan is… Read more »
I think shadchanim should definitely not charge before making a successful shidduch….and i like the idea of a committee for shidduchim. but that should also be without money. volunteers. I believe plenty of parents would take up the task. They can take turns. Something should be ogranized. Many families cannot afford the weddings never mind the shidduch fees….it is not a fair system.
I am in the middle of finding shidduchim for my children and the experience with shadchanim has been more than disappointing. I realize it is all min haShomayim but at the same time when we make a keli and contact a shadchan, why is it we end up feeling the shadchan just does not really care? we are not a priority. No real effort is made to look for a shidduch necessarily. If something comes along, fine and well. And if not, we the parents are left hanging…. So it is not only the kids dropping out of the shidduch… Read more »
seeing it fron another perpespective the daughter of a shadchan, I see how much calls, abuse and unappreciative comments are thrown to a shadchan when she is simply “trying to help”. she doesn’t owe anyone anything other than she was born with heart of gold to help. parents, if you call the shadchan often and you see she is trying hard for your child (even though hasn’t had success yet, send her a gift, a check of appreciation wouldn’t hurt either, don’t forget this is all on her own time, free of charge. We pay hundreds for a small dr.… Read more »
WELL SAID! AMAZING! ILL SUPPORT IT! THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT SO CLEARLY!!
Riva is a good friend of mine and I can tell you ‘zi meint mit an emes’. She is an excellent example of true Ahas Yisroel and we all have alot to learn from her. I really hope that there is no critisizm on this article because knowing Riva this is only written to help us all. To #10 – obviously there is more to say about this subject, but let us be openminded to fixing the ENTIRE process, one problem at a time. To #9 – all our children can afford to be picky. They all possess unique qualities… Read more »
DOES NOT EXIST PEOPLE HELPING THE SAME WAY WE HELP ANYBODY ELSE IS A NEED TO BE PAINED WHEN YOUR FRIENDS GIRL IS NOT MARRIED THE SAME WAY AS YOU PAINED FOR YOUR OWN=THIS IS CALLED IF I REMEMBER WELL AHAVT ISRAEL
That has been done with few results. There is a problem with attitude and responsibility. If a Shadchan is working for you, each time that he/she starts the relationship there should be a clear understanding about how he/she intends to work. Perhaps it is only their intended mission to be middleman if you suggest a name to them. The problem is that it has come down to just that. The parents have become the Shadchanim doing all the work because there is no one to work with. Your suggestion for starting a vaad is interesting but may not get a… Read more »
Why don’t you just ask the Shadchan if you can publicize his name?
I love the idea!! Now what are you doing to make it happen?? You need to be the future you want to happen!
There are one or two Shadchonim who take no money yet show endless patience and concern with the constant phonecalls. Rochel Bryski always make a parent feel valued.
The flip side are other shadchonim who take money for an interview held in an indescreet manner, with the shadchan’s family in the apartment and aware of the meeting. How humiliating for the young girl/boy involved! We also as non shadchonim as the Rebbe’s kehillah all over the world, need to care about other people’s children and keep our eyes open for shidduchim for them as well as for our own.
Why don’t you just make it mandatory that every time a shadchan sets your child up on a date, you send them 18.00. Trust me this will take care of the shadchanim side of the shidduch crisis……. now there’s the singles themselves to deal with….
Please read this article and learn from it!. Call Back!! you dont begin to understand how demeaning it is not to be called back.
Its basic mentchlichkeit.
And, dear shadchan, if I paid you money and for all these years you couldnt come up with a single shidduch for me – you should return the money!!
Perhaps another article is needed addressing the high demands of boys and girls. Instead of going out with a human being, they expect an angle. Too much phone calling and research is done and not enough Shidusch dating…
good luck but you’re comment is insensitive
there is a lack of good shadchonim, even as a young chassidish girl i thought to myself if i wait for shadchonim to think of boys for me I’ll kill a lot of time, i thought to myself if only i could somehow meet a good boy…even chassidish people are sick of shadchonim, we are forcing lubavitchers to meet on their own like in the modern orthodox world! I know of people getting older, shadchonim are being useless, let them meet and just get married already, no choice
An excellent analysis of the situation. Yesterday, I was speaking to a lady who was trying to help me find a Shidduch and at the end of the conversation she asked me for my telephone number. I was in shock. This was the first time someone playing the role as ‘shadchan’ was asking to be able to call me back, rather than me having to chase him/her. And yet- this is normal behavior. We don’t even need to create organizations to address this ‘crisis’. This situation could be helped very simply. Just as we don’t turn away someone who asks… Read more »
As a talented and bright person.
I agree, how long are we supposed to put lives on hold for parents to search through approx 1500-3000 boy or girls (yes i did some basic number crunching inlc israel, europe and some few newer numbers – but anyone who has made better estimation let me know) with shadchanim whom you u paid to put you on a list them give u a couple of ‘resumes’ every couple of month. Yes riva – a better system is in order.
To number 9, just wanna say thanks for sharing with everyone how wonderful your daughter is,
this is one article that is long overdue.The problem needs to be dealt with now.I dont know this woman personally but she has the right attitude towards how to make a successful shidduch.May hashem bless her and her family and of course all those seeking their zivug.
we need a proper business in place with fees and they will hire profesional councelors to match personalities and caractor ect..unfortunatly these days the buigger yente you are, the buigger “shadchan” you are. and we are doing it to our selfs.
There are many divorcees looking to remarry with very few options. Shadchanim don’t seem to take us seriously and if they do have any suggestions they are usually so ridiculous and far fetched that its often, not worth the bother.
In addition I have many single friends who are in their late 20’s and early 30’s who seem to be going through a rough time too.
If anyone has any concrete suggestions please email me at: [email protected]
this article is a really great one.
I agree with many of your points of how a shiduch system should work but wait….. When you look for a school, do you ask someone to decide for you which school to go to??? When you look for a job do you have someone decide for you which jobs to apply for??? No, you are responsible for your own future and destiny. So why is it that in this most important and definitive moment of your life are you completely relient on the skills, capabilities and resorcefulness of a complete stranger??? THIS MUST CHANGE! We need to stop this… Read more »
What on earth does that have to do with this article…
Shadconim should also make sure that the Mechutonim should keep their Children (Choson & Kallo) out of the Wedding Expences, where to make the Wedding Etc. the list is long but I am sure that Riva has experienced this as well
I have long thought that there should be an official paid shadchan for each community – if not more than 1 [or 2]. It is impossible to get aznywhere with the people currently available espcially for those who live outside NY. The current system is a joke amoungst the girls and boys still waiting and waiting.
You are so right! It feels as if I wrote that… who are you? Eli?
I’m with you 100%, let shadchanim get together and form groups, meet singles with 3/4 shadchanim in one shot… sounds like a great idea.
But of course, this will take serious time dedication and coordination.
And… who cares, right?
As a bochur who got married later in life I can tell you that the job of a shadchan is extremely hard. The bochur (or the girl) doesn’t know what they want and the shadchan doesn’t know what to do with them. But more importantly, since when did it become the shadchan’s job to call you back? Did you give them a deposit? Do you give them a thank-you or a tip for every shidduch that they invest in that does NOT work out? They are not slaves. And I have yet to meet a shadchan who does it for… Read more »
Thank you for your insight in this very difficult process. I agree that people should be paid for the work they do… and I am very willing to pay. But I would like to see them do their work! I have paid many shodchonim only to be ignored when I call or worse, insulted by them. The system is just so difficult to navigate these days and our children are suffering.
And to #7… I would love to meet your devoted and caring shodchon. He sounds very special and unique. You are very lucky.
In order to keep such an organization viable, there has to e some incentive system or turnover. Otherwise, it’ll end up like some of our yeshivos…
after marrying off 2 girls and 3 boys im confident enough to say this when my oldest was 17 we called the shadchan yes i know it sounds strange but we acted fast she started hunting around and a month after she came back from sem she was engaged
Thank you Mrs. Denburg, and kudos to you for signing your name – that was gutsy – as you can see I don’t have as much guts as you. That is a well written article with many important points that people need to think about. The problem is we all look to the heads/ leaders/ community coordinators to undertake our suggestions, but they don’t really exist. So, if you believe in this enough, YOU will have to make it happen. Because there is noone out there, that will now take your suggestion and make it happen. So many good ideas… Read more »
Hi mrs. Denburg at first you say is should not be a business which I totaly dissagreed w u. At the end u say it should be run like a busisenn wich I am totally screaming for decades!!!! You should have collage educated therapists with high degrees on the bored! You should have a fee system in place not just a bonch of yentes setting up our childrens life. They should have qualifications towards what type of peronalities will go well with each other, as @ose to the shadchonim we have pulling names out a hat! And I don’t blame… Read more »
you have your head on straight and you should lead this shidduch system.
YOU MAY BE SURPRISED BUT THERE ARE ACTUALLY SELFLESS INDIVIDUALS OUT THERE THAT AREN’T ‘OFFICIAL’ SHADCHANIM THAT ARE ONLY THERE TO HELP PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER. AND THEY DONT CHARGE A NICKEL!!!’VE WITNESSED IT FIRSTHAND PERSONALLY. THEY GIVE UP MUCH TIME AND ENERGY WITH NO COMPENSATION. SHIDDUCHIM NEEDS TO BE PERSONABLE, THE SHADCHAN NEEDS TO GENERALLY CARE – NOT JUST ABOUT THE $$$ THAT MAY COME AT THE END. FIND SOMEONE THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP YOU – DO RESEARCH, MAKE A FEW PHONE CALLS AND SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN. SOMEONE THAT CARES. IT MAY EVEN BE SOMEONE THAT YOU DON’T KNOW WELL.… Read more »
Whatever ideas you have, make it happen fast. Young people are dropping out of the shidduch system like flies or taking matters into their own hands. After all, for how long do you expect a capable young lady or gentleman to wait around for “someone” to show up for them.
22 year olds, 25 year olds, 29 year olds, 35 year olds… Talented and bright people. You think they’ll be patient with the parents and shadchanim forever?
Very nice article but it doesnt deal with the real issues that effect every boy and girl… another fact not mentioned is when you have a shadchan who takes $175 for a 10 min conversation just so he can put you on his list and then never call you with any suggestions. i think he should be forced to pay the bachur back. I refuse to go to a shadchan who charges just to sit down and meet b/c i feel they dont have feeling for what they are doing. you are very right it is our lives and feelings… Read more »
intense but nice actually i have a daughter dating right now shes a dream, tons of offers she’s smart,preety,talented, popular but picky she can afford to be picky i mean,more offers every day but this time i think it’s the one she’s on her 5th date with the same boy hope i soon look into halls
I agree with your analysis of the situation, however as you mentioned, official shadchanim seem not to treat their position as one of responsibility and achrayus. Hence your suggestion to make an official board with salaries, I believe would lead to more abuse. Just as the american economy will pick up through small businesses and the private sector jobs and not through new big government programs, so to this crisis will be solved by private individuals like yourself who can initiate new ideas and tactics how to go about this dilemma. There is one such group called “The Chicago Shidduch… Read more »
B”H after marrying off 3 children K”AH, I could say that I had basically one very devoted, caring and helpful shaddchan. Shidduchim is his side job and he does have a growing family K”AH. When the girl and boy would be out on their date he would be so involved that he would stay up until they would come home. He felt like it were his own children. Shaddchanim do deserve alot of recognition and Shaddchanus money once the Shidduch goes through and even during the process, if they are working hard they deserve some type of payment. I see… Read more »
thank you for writing this article. i think you brought the point fourth straight and clear with a feasible solution. I hope the shadchanim will hear and listen to your advice.
-a single girl
Riva, I am on the other side of the coin right now meaning I did not yet start marrying off my children but I am real close. And I am scared! The shidduchim that I have been involved in ( girls that have taught here or counselors) are exactly like you say and worse! I was mortified when one of the girls described to me how she was treated by a shadchan! It was very obvious why! She was not from any big name and financially it would of been not worth the shadchans time. I think your idea of… Read more »
I like the idea of a base fee for everyone-it’s like a modern day version of the white dresses that were shared on tu b’av. The effort put into marrying each individual should truly be equal.
What you are “proposing” sounds promising in theory, but it really is a tremendous undertaking and needs a strong group to spearhead it. Personally, when I consider what responsibility generating a marriage entails, I find it very daunting and afraid to have any part of it. Good luck selecting those people and then I’ll support the cause.
can’t wait for all the comments on this one!!!
good luck!
HOWEVER these shadchanim are called shadchanim not because they officially appointed themselves. |They are doing as much as they can on their own time and once they have a chazoko of succeeding in making shidduchim they are called a shadchan.They are self employed and can put in how much time they want. Yes, there definitely has to be a system as you describe but we cannot blame a shadchan for not doing their job because it is not their job, ||they are not working under anyone , they are trying their luck. Remember they don’t get paid when a shidduch… Read more »
a simpler solution to the entire crisis would be, for parants to stop looking for new families for themselves and rather look for prospective mate for their children.
the amount of times i hear a mother say that that FAMILY is not for us, its ridiculous. The whole getting married has become more about acquiring a new family and not about finding a mate. So, so long as the priorities of parents is who the other FAMILY is, rather then who the person is, the amount of busy Shadchonim will never matter.