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Tuesday, 14 Heshvan, 5780
  |  November 12, 2019

Restore Humanity to Dating

From the COLlive inbox: A single Chabad girl has 2 simple suggestions to help be more sensitive in all matters of dating. Full Story

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Heart warming
Guest
Heart warming

Very well said, that is so nice.
I’m so glad you wrote this article and pointed this out!

Good for you!
Guest
Good for you!

This article is right on target. As you say, everyone has his or her own concept of beauty and attractiveness. When some singles say they will only marry somebody “drop dead gorgeous,” this sometimes turns away shadchanim, or their friends and acquaintances who might make a shidduch for them. Just as the singles need to stay focused on important things, the would-be matchmakers shouldn’t take their word for it, and give up, when they say what they “must” have in terms of appearance. Years ago, one boy we tried to fix up was picky, picky, and claimed to only want… Read more »

What do you expect?
Guest
What do you expect?

You expect these immature girls to get “married” they will have immature questions.
There needs to be a reset button on shadchanim I have friends in CH that are officially “big” shadchonim however the amount of distinction I hear about is insane! I feel really bad for all those parents and especially for those singles that don’t know any better …

Beautifully written - well said
Guest
Beautifully written - well said

Another point:
I think there should be a “plead the fifth” option when people are called as references and the caller asks inappropriate questions or phrases them off-mark.
May you and all others seeking, find their bashert easily and quickly.

What is normal?
Guest
What is normal?

This community is so shallow. Unfortunately, I have heard the infamous “Is she normal” question so often. What does that even mean? Go on the date, and see for yourself if the persons level of “normalcy” works for you.

whoever you are - thank you!!!!
Guest
whoever you are - thank you!!!!

Sadly shidduchim has become increasingly difficult. Things that were never acceptable has become “the only way”. We do way too much digging, it’s like a legitimate “yenta feast” and regardless of how we spin it, we are merely fooling ourselves. People easily forget that nobody is perfect and when they are searching for the “perfect” person they set themselves up for failure. It’s merely a question of allowing Hashem to bring forth your bashert. Unfortunately too many people who are otherwise true believers seem to fall short when in comes to finding their zivug. If we keep in mind that… Read more »

Aren't you happy people reject you
Guest
Aren't you happy people reject you

If they’re rejecting you before a meet, why the heck would you want to even attempt to live a life with them, there’s better people out there that would be perfect for you. Move on and thank them for setting out their intentions straight away, it will cause many less problems down the line.

Not holding my breath...
Guest
Not holding my breath...

I always knew I would never get married, because I heard of all sorts of horrible things about my family from shadchonim and potential shidduchim at a way too young of an age. I love my family, but yes, we have genuine problems that we struggle with. It truly is horrible, as a younger child, to have to sit and watch my beloved older siblings be devastated by the super-judgmental types and know that I face the same sort of treatment when its my turn. I wish we had a Rebbe, someone who could take action against the big mouths.… Read more »

Sensible Objective Dating
Guest
Sensible Objective Dating

While sensitivity and humanity are required (not just in dating, but in all matters of life), it’s equally important to remember that dating is NOT a relationship. It is simply an interview to see if you are comfortable with the other, and more importantly yourself. The feeling of rejection is equal and opposite to the expectation that proceeded it. Let’s not idealize and glorify the 1st date to the point where it becomes dramatic if one side says it’s not for them (which is statistically likely). Lastly, its hard to say no to a coffee date; it lowers the intensity,… Read more »

so what are we allowed  to ask then?
Guest
so what are we allowed to ask then?

u prefer we just date and reject? whats wrong with saying no shes not classically normal but let me define that and then finish with I think she will make a great wife or something positive. if she is really not normal, why hide it and then the boy discovers on the date and rejects. shell get one rejection after another. is that better? don’t forget there are people actively looking for less than normal for their less than normal sons and are relieved to get one because they know they are never gonna get a normal one. and to… Read more »

the author is genuine and speaks from her heart!!
Guest
the author is genuine and speaks from her heart!!

beAUTIFUL AND SENSITIVE ARTICLE. The author should be commended!! Shadchanim are all working hard but alot is in their hands. If they can try to do more research or meet the person before others are given a resume that might help out the situation. People who trust their shadchanim will give it a try without asking inapropriate questions because they will feel its worth a shot and everyone has a different opinion on Normal. However, when a shadchan gives a name and says “do your research” things have gotten out of hand. On the flip side..shadchanim are really trying and… Read more »

to #10
Guest
to #10

I liked your post 😉

mad winter
Guest
mad winter

To number ten how about you put your self in that so called not normal person shoes and see how you like it to be classified as not normal

Yitzchok
Guest
Yitzchok

Well said.

Girls or Women?
Guest
Girls or Women?

We could start by referring to single people of marriageable age as young men and women.

stop shlichus for girls
Guest
stop shlichus for girls

The main reason why there is a crisis is because girls go on “shlichus” and don’t want to hear about shiduchim before they are 22-23. Girls should start with shiduchim right after seminary before the age of 20 like the Rebbe stressed many times! If we follow the Rebbe there is no crisis.

to number 8
Guest
to number 8

my heart bleeds for your pain…but hear this-you are a beautiful person with special qualities that will be so appreciated and loved by your bashert.We live in a modern day world of sheker…dont buy into it,you rise above it and feel confident that your partner is out there..somewhere looking for you.Go date – dont worry what other people say ..hashem will judge them for it.I wish for you happinness inside and out and hashem should bless you and your family with brachot of happiness and mazel tovs!(also on last note what would the Rebbe say to you..think about it..)

skype dating service
Guest
skype dating service

Is there any interest in a frum skype dating service. I really think it would speed up the process of getting dates to happen quicker with less money put out. It would have to be under a proper vaad of rabbis. But it would be used for a first dat e of a half hour second date of up to an hour

Normal
Guest
Normal

Everyone has their own definition of normal
A modern person considers other modern people normal. Others too frum
A very Chassidish person considers people like them selves normal. To them modern is not normal
To a conservative square type, the bohemian artsy type is not his normal. And so to for the reverse.
Normal is a term used in Brooklyn it means. Is this person like me/us?

Nerdy
Guest
Nerdy

If your son is nerdy then you think nerdy is perfect.
If you son is more the “cool” type then nerdy is not a match.

Normal?
Guest
Normal?

What is normal? What do you mean by normal? This word means nothing when trying to get a sense of a person. It can mean so many different things, The dictionary defines normal as : usual or ordinary. :not strange: mentally and physically healthy. Why would someone want their bashert to be usual or ordinary? Shouldn’t the seeker be more excited about their bashert? And ” not strange”- what does that mean? Is there only one set of restricted behavior through which a person expresses themselves? Don’t different people express themselves differently and so therefore wouldn’t ” strange” be different… Read more »

other side of the world
Guest
other side of the world

number 6 you are right far too much talking

skype date is not worth it
Guest
skype date is not worth it

Skype is the most unflattering and unnatural way to meet! you would be better off with a phone call and a picture! Skype is even awkward and uncomfortable with your own family – lots of quiet pauses, weird angled images… not likely to bring to a 2nd date. Plus – charisma needs to be felt in person. What about the posture, the way a person moves? all those things can’t be felt or communicated through a screen. Trusting a shaddchan is just not going to happen. The naive trust anyone, and the ‘judgers’ will just make their own calls regardless.… Read more »

Be careful WHO you ask!
Guest
Be careful WHO you ask!

I approached a friend of mine for her daughter and the son of my mechutanim. My friend thinks outside the box B”H because HER friend is the boys’s aunt – who said the most terrible things about the family. I was horrified, mainly because I have NEVER seen any of the so-called behaviors the aunt described (& neither has my daughter after nearly 20 years of marriage to an older brother!) & because this same aunt misled me regarding another shidduch. Checking is VERY important, but it’s important to ask people you know who are not on the reference list… Read more »

to #21 your brocha at the end
Guest
to #21 your brocha at the end

Amen. Very very nice.

TANYA  chapter 32 says it all
Guest
TANYA chapter 32 says it all

It turns out that those who make their body-self their principal concern and provide their soul only a background role can never experience true love and brotherhood. Whatever love they experience will be conditional.

(from chabad.org by Tzvi Freeman)

To #18
Guest
To #18

I don’t know about you but most people want see who they are dating!

CONFUSED
Guest
CONFUSED

First we hear about about the nightmares that evolved because none of the references or anyone else would be honest and tell them the “truth” about the girl or boy. If it’s not a match why waste time energy money and emotions on going out with someone that there’s no chance that something can come of. Regarding materialism noone says that a shidduch shoud be based solely on finances etc. However we are living in a very costly environment. Parnasso helps Sholom Bayis and in the rearing of children. So it counts as much as anything else. Last but not… Read more »

32!
Guest
32!

v’lachein kol haoisim gufam ikor venafsham tefeila, eeh esfahor lihyios ahava veachva amitis elo ateluyo vedabor bilvod!

"Is she chassidish?"
Guest
"Is she chassidish?"

I get reference calls all the time and they always ask that question! I ask them to give me specific questions regarding this…..Because really what do they mean!!?

Must Read
Guest
Must Read

There is a book called Best Of My Worst Written By Goldie Krantz that is worth reading.

Mother
Guest
Mother

Yes, you have to find out as much as possible about the person before you meet. Yes, you want someone who is compatible as far as background and hashkofa and standards. Why is that so hard to understand? There are enough different types of people, background, standards, etc, etc. so everyone can find in their group. Why look for different? It leads to disappointment and unhappiness. Parents don’t want to hear from other backgrounds. Starting a married life is hard enough without having to cope with different backgrounds and way of life. And yes, you can never check too much,… Read more »

just me and my thought
Guest
just me and my thought

as a guy who is not a perfect cookie cutter, in fact not at all, but still frum, beard and all, i say with certainty that everyone that looked into me got at least one bad report, and some say no off the bat, sure i mind #1 to the parents don’t buy all u hear, #2 to the reporter let us say u are right, but maybe u WERE right c people change, no one is perfect,, EVEN U, wouldn’t u want a chance if u made a mistake?? #3 i mean u kinda do need to be weird… Read more »

Couldn't Agree More
Guest
Couldn't Agree More

”Often people have family history that is troubling yet no fault of their own and he/she and he/she has been faced with the challenge of leading the best life possible despite their past. Let’s not punish people for their circumstances, let’s look at person for who they and what they have to offer.”
To all those who enjoy slandering other families, IY”H one day you’ll understand the pain that you have caused.

to #32
Guest
to #32

I think you’re deluded if you believe that just because you checked everything out down to the color of his underwear to make sure everything is “compatible,” then they are guaranteed a good marriage. First of all, you’re not in control, G-d is, and all these mothers with G-d complexes are the ones destroying their children’s lives and shidduchim. Secondly if you haven’t noticed, Lubavitch has expanded. Yes, we could stay forever in our little box mentality but honestly, when 2 kids grow up in CH going to the same schools and camps and playing in the same parks, how… Read more »

#21 & #30 hit it on the head
Guest
#21 & #30 hit it on the head

canned relative questions get answers based on the person’s frame of reference is he/she chassidish, normal, beautiful, plain, nice, mensh, outgoing, smart, well dressed are meaningless words without context. B”H i married off 2 children to fine partners for them (not for me, for my child!!) when reviewing references and backgrounds, I always asked pointed questions, for example: what would he/she do if …. u get a better idea of how they react instead of “is she chassidish” try this: would she go to a movie, if not, would she watch one on dvd? does she enjoy novels? in camp,… Read more »

To #8
Guest
To #8

It is heartbreaking to hear your story. Your pain is palpable, and I am sorry that you are going through this. But don’t despair; don’t believe those that say that you are no longer marriageable (especially the very persistent voice inside your head). Each of us is guided by Hashgocha protis, and you are exactly where you are meant to be at this stage in your life (even though I wish you did not have to go through this pain!); there is no true power in the hands of the privileged class that spoke evil of your family–“Ein od milvado.… Read more »

Hiding issues under the rug
Guest
Hiding issues under the rug

I am coming from the situation of marrying into a family that has seriouse problems that my parents were not made aware of years ago when I dated. Years and children later, I had no other choice but to divorce. People need to be honest because it doesn’t do anybody any favors and creates innocent victims.

Define "Chassidish"
Guest
Define "Chassidish"

ANYONE????

A working boy can’t be Chassidish or even frum, apparently.

To #16
Guest
To #16

Well said!

You do need to be cautious
Guest
You do need to be cautious

I am of the belief that honesty is always best- if someone has mental illness in the family such a bipolar then you bet someone needs to speak up.This would be my understanding of the word “normal”.If my child has any medical issue then I definitely want potentials to know this because I would hope someone would be honest with me.The rest might seem like nonsense to me but how can I truthfully say that?If someone wants gorgeous then who am I say go out with my child anyway?I feel like in that case,do not bother and thank you for… Read more »

Don L'Kaf Zechus
Guest
Don L'Kaf Zechus

As a parent trying to marry off children and trying to make shidduchin for others, I have come across the following: 1. Many wouldn’t get acknowledged if the family name was not on a pedastel, 2) Most references are a waste of time

I am a size 2
Guest
I am a size 2

For all you guys looking for a perfect girl: I have the perfect figure, but you don’t know and you will never know that I am anorexic (until after you marry me).

My eating disorder is causing my hair to fall out and the doctors say I am damaged beyond repair so I won’t have children.

So admire my figure before I go down to size zero.

What you see is what you get – and what you get will become less and less, till I am gone.

it's a shame really
Guest
it's a shame really

we’re lost track of the real important things in life,beauty is
nice,but won’t pay the bi.ll.s

Parent not yet in the Parsha
Guest
Parent not yet in the Parsha

So much information in these posts. I have so many mixed emotions reading the words on this page. I will say though, Bitachon is truly powerful. Hashem pays particular attention to those who practice Bitachon. May there be bountiful blessings for all posters. Moshiach Now!!!!

what does Chassidish mean..
Guest
what does Chassidish mean..

What does chassidish mean? ….lets define that. Being that there are no dictionaries which define that term we will resort to the definitions of our own minds. Hopefully the one that has been there for a while. So chassidish well firstly as you learned to do in elementary school is look for the shoresh in every word. So chassidish. chassid. so what is a chassid. For that you might have to learn a little. maybe. or we can suffice by free definition: someone who is connected to the Rebbe, knows that whatever the Rebbe says is what they do through… Read more »

NERDY?
Guest
NERDY?

Nerds make the best husbands! They are the ones who will come home after a hard day’s work (yes, nerds have “jobs!” and change the baby’s messy diapers. They are the ones who will help their kids do their homework, and they are the ones who will bring you flowers every Friday afternoon, polish the leichter, tell you to take a night off while they watch the kids and finish the dishes! Nerdy guys will tell you how pretty you look, and NO, you don’t look fat!

Nerds make the BEST husbands!!! And wives, too!

To 46
Guest
To 46

i hope your FUTURE son in law likes people with impossible high expectations
You mentioned a lot of important qualities but I’m sorry to brake it to you most Bochrim today have about wish they had half the things on that chart
Just hope you get someone with a good heart
More important then your whole chasidish thing
Good luck finding perfect =)>

to #43
Guest
to #43

You are abviously a troll and I hope no one takes you seriously.Anorexia is not joke and none of the eating disorders are.But this obsession with looks and sizes is part of the illness in and of itself.Many say my child is rather attractive but the minute I hear the guy’s wants are “very beautiful”,I nix that right away.Let all the gorgeous ones have this great catch.Not interested.You can look at their list of wants and that should also give you some insight into the person! Next……..

To #43
Guest
To #43

I don’t know the reason why you wrote that, but I don’t think people marry just because of the looks. I am a young Bochur, not even marriageable age, went through some very hard times, and don’t know if I will ever get married, but I can tell you one thing, and that’s if I ever get married, it would not be all because of the looks, but of the personality (kind…).

46
Guest
46

Such people don’t exsist
But good luck on finding him 😉

To #8
Guest
To #8

I hope you will break out of this shidduch system, and find your bashert in a different way. Maybe you have a good friend, or meet your right one in your own way. If there is a you, there is a him.
Hatzlocha

Why I will always be Chabad but will never be a Lubavitcher?
Guest
Why I will always be Chabad but will never be a Lubavitcher?

The above statement is painful to write.Yiddishkeit for me came alive and is real b/c of the Rebbe’s teachings. I was raised Jewish but as I grew and learned about it I discovered I wasn’t. So naturally I went to the mikvah. Now as a ger and looking for a wife I don’t find many options because I’m not good enough b/c of my family lineage. So I try to have emuna in Hashem and that the Rebbe’s teachings will guide me to finding a kallah but at the same time I wonder how can I be part of a… Read more »

oldest is 18...
Guest
oldest is 18...

#49 and #47, you are so on the mark. when my children iYH enter this stage of life send me the “nerds” and those that are not concerned with looks.

to 53
Guest
to 53

I used to think this way. I think you are simply over reacting to the fact you haven’t received many suggestions. Try talking to other shadchanim and try talking to your friends. Perhaps the issue is your not making enough of an effort. In order for blessings to come down from Hashem you need to make yourself a keli. Examine your own actions before judging others so harshly

 Normal has a large curve
Guest
Normal has a large curve

My wife called me normal as a complement when we were going out. I said is that it? I thought I was great, the best or at least above average. She laughed and is still laughing (sometimes at me and sometimes with me) My mother A’H used to say “Normal has a large curve”.

Skype Dating
Guest
Skype Dating

I don’t think it is such a bad idea! Maybe this would help people
with special needs, who have difficulty meeting someone in their local communities.

From long ago
Guest
From long ago

Long ago the shadchanim could/would not relate to me because I was from outside of NY, tall, skinny, and no longer had a father. T’was very hard. Fast forward to nowadays: B’h I married off all but my youngest child. Good presentation in the form of a resume is a must these days. At the same time there are very bizarre parental questions out there that I think get in the way of their own children finding a shidduch. Also parents many times look for someone for the child they wish they had, not the child that they do have.

To number 8
Guest
To number 8

If it were me I would put a great picture of myself on every frum dating site and go to many singles events! Represent yourself ! When a guy feels your the one, he’s not gonna give a hoot to all the naysayers!

X