By Yehuda Adelist
Askanim and Rabbonim have asked COLlive to alert the community:
I would like to bring to the community’s attention the following urgent matter. There is a holistic health clinic in Crown Heights that has been referring people from Crown Heights to a non-Jewish health retreat called Grace Grove Retreat Center.
Upon researching this center’s website online, it was discovered that this center has a shamaness and a yoga person on staff. In addition, when it comes to emotional issues, it seems that they use the shamaness. One of the people was sent there was for emotional reasons and is yet to come back R”L.
While there is Kosher Yoga by frum people out there, Yoga from a non-Jewish place is based on Hinduism which is Avodah Zara. Shamanism is based on Kishuf. Wikpedia describes shamanism as religious magic using spirits etc…
Rabbonim from all sides have told me that this place sounds like Avodah Zarah and Kishuf. Askanim in the community who are familiar with these types of places have told me that this place sounds dangerous for a frum person. In addition, Sedona, Arizona is known as a hotspot for cults. It has been requested that a warning be put out to the community.
The holistic health practitioner claimed she had no idea about the avodah zorah or kishuf that is on staff at the retreat, but she anyways felt that there other people on staff and that the place would not use any tumah on frum Jewish people. She didn’t feel that it was important to confirm this with Rabbonim.
It must be made clear that people should not go to this retreat without first consulting Rabbonim and askanim. A holistic health practitioner does not have the halachic or hashkafic authority to make such delicate decisions. It is asked that this person immediately stop referring people to this retreat and if anyone else is referring people, they should stop as well. Even if people will testify that they went there and didn’t receive any tumah, it is difficult to know exactly which methods the people at this retreat used as they will not necessarily tell their patients.
For the future, it should be known that situations of health and mental health that require decisions to be made are very delicate and need Rabbinic approval.
Again, until this is investigated further by Rabbonim and askanim, people should not go to Grace Grove in Sedona Arizona, nor should they make similar decisions without properly consulting Rabbonim and Askanim.
For all enquiries or information about suspect organizations, cults, sects and missionary groups, please contact
Rabbi Shea Hecht at NCFJE (718) 735 0200, or
Rabbi Raphael Aron at [email protected]
I am glad I found this article. As a medical professional, I see a lot of flaws with the foundation of the conventional system. Being severely ill, I have found concrete logical answers with alternatives. Yet, along the process of searching for answers a shemanic practitioner has come up. After researching what it involves, I felt very conflicted and uncomfortable with what it entailed. Dealing with spirits can come from a source that may not be from a good place. Yes, there is truth to Kabbalah, but this may come from an unholy source. We don’t know the effects it… Read more »
Hi Everyone, I’m the 2nd owner of Grace Grove Rejuvenation Center. I’m thoroughly amused by this article. It’s fascinating that someone can write such information when they clearly have never done the most basic research required to write a journalistic article. I have never received 1 phone call from the author asking us any kind of questions regarding our programs. We are simply a center that helps people to detoxify the body from high levels of toxins. Did you know that the average american has over 5000 chemicals in their bodies today and this causes all kinds of health issues!… Read more »
Rabbi Pinchos Woolstone can you please contact me on +61-418-111163
I have followed your discussions with great interest. Out of respect to the family, I will not comment on this specific case referenced. They are constantly in our thoughts and prayers as is your entire community as you debate this topic of vital interest. My purpose in writing is not to defend our center or our try to convince anyone of any concept. The very essence of what we provide here is a peaceful and loving environment supervised by an MD and a trained Psychiatrist. Through this process one cleans out physical, emotional, mental and spiritual blockages and toxins so… Read more »
Start with your board-certified primary care doctor’s office!
Thank you rabbanim for standing up to these issues. It is healing for me when rabbanim guide us even if with a strong hand. May the rabbanim have the strength to always stand strong on whats right aNd wrong, may we and our children keep our heads on straight, may we as a community produce our own kosher healers based in Torah and RMbam, and may this ladys husband come back to his family immediately.
Can you suggest specific kosher places for healing?
“The author never claims to take sides and the story” Yup I agree the author thought it through and wrote carefully in order not to be help accountable for the many errors the story has. “The author claims to have made contact with the holistic health director who admits not having done proper research before sending people and that she anyways does not have to cosult with Rabbonim even if there is Avodah Zarah and Kishuf on site.” This is a misleading statement that comes from the author not asking the correct questions, in the correct way, to reach the… Read more »
The author never claims to take sides and the story you refer to is irrelevant. Protecting the commuinity is the issue. The author claims to have made contact with the holistic health director who admits not having done proper research before sending people and that she anyways does not have to cosult with Rabbonim even if there is Avodah Zarah and Kishuf on site. That is scary. The focus of the article was clearly not about the person you refer to but to warn people from listening to a holistic person without the input of Rabbonim especially when she is… Read more »
In your 25 years experience you also know that you will never meet a client or person and hear one side of a story before trying to judge them.
This author did not even attempt to call the man who he makes sound like he is still in some cult.
If you or the author does, he will find out more then they bargained for… this is not a simple story.
I have had over 25 years of experience withpeople going to such clinic and retreats in Australia and Asia. IN 99% of cases disaster ensued. I state categorically that the Ruach a Tumeh pervades all of them, even if in the the most subtle manner. They are not a place for a Jew of any level of commitment to Torah. Boruch HaShem here in the US there are numerous qualifed therapist to turn to in time of need. Further there are retreats all over the country for young, old and families who seek emotional energization carrying the recommendation of Rabbonim… Read more »
http://portraitofaleader.blogspot.com/2007/10/needless-to-say-on-my-part-i-will-do.html “…certain aspects of the said movements, which are entirely irrelevant to religious worship or practices, have a therapeutic value, particularly in the area of relieving mental stress. It follows that if these therapeutic methods – insofar as they are utterly devoid of any ritual implications – would be adopted by doctors specializing in the field of mental illness, it would have two-pronged salutary effect: Firstly, in the view of the fact that these methods are therapeutically effective, while there are, regretfully, many who could benefit from such treatment, this is a matter of healing of the highest order, since… Read more »
I have seen this place and it really sounds like a great place! No, Sedona (which I have been to several times) is not a hot bed of Avoda Zora and gilu aroyos. It is – l’havdil – like Tzefas, with many alternative healing modalities and many artist and the counter-culture style that goes with that. Bais Chana (Manis F.) did a program there a number of winters ago. This retreat itself sounds really wonderful and offers various healing options – definitely not a cult! I do know the person in question who – for now – is not returning… Read more »
Always a relief to hear that my community members are looking out for their health and wellness: physically & emotionally. Thank you for sharing, in a voice of reason, devoid of judgement or defense.
did the Rabbis also ban the beautiful sunset featured in the picture?
AMEN!!!
many of the positions are odes to various gods or celestial beings
just because someone writes the word kosher doesn’t mean the ypga noe became halachically correct
To #16-my heart goes out to you and your family. May Hashem spark his Yiddeshe Neshama and bring him out of his stupor, and return to the family he loves, immediately!
I am a frum Jew and I was just there a week ago for a liver cleanse
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This is complete nonsense. It is gezel, genevas daas, kishuf and A”Z. It also may be risky.
actually, we do consult torah figures way before anyone with a college degree- which by now you should know means absolutely nothing! please- i know so many idiots with college degrees, and so many billiant ppl who ‘get it’ who neverha a seculr ed. open your eyes and see whats going on!
#7 is so right.i don’t know why friends of mine who are intelligent,chassidishe women,believe everything they read or here when it comes to alternative healing.is it it because they’re so trained t ahve kabalos ol and emuna and it’s misapplied in these cases?
I am a frum Jew and I was just there a week ago for a liver cleanse. We drank liquids during our cleanse. The yoga was normal regular yoga without any chanting or oms. Just postures to limber ourselves. If a person wanted to pay extra above what was offered at the retreat, they could. One such healer did shamanism which I chose not to sign up for and spend extra money on. I knew the difference as a frum Jew and I believe that most frum Jews would know that difference and not sign up and pay extra to… Read more »
to #24 – 1. Whether he is there or not, it could be the influence of the place caused him not to come back. 2.The fact that it was suggested is the issue, 3. Sedona doesn’t sound like the Center but the town, but this article sounds like the center is not suited anyway, for any Jew.
Before writing such an article (especially in the 9 days) you should check both sides of a story. Before judging the retreat & the health practitioner know that this is a sensitive case, one that frankly is not in the jurisdiction of Rabonim but Dr.s Some very misleading statements “One of the people was sent there was for emotional reasons and is yet to come back R”L.” That sounds like he is still there – He isn’t, this is misleading. “A holistic health practitioner does not have the halachic or hashkafic authority to make such delicate decisions.” The holistic practitioner… Read more »
Since doctors will always tell you its in your head, if they cant diagnose you, there is a need for holistic medicine.
Just take it as a warning.
If it’s not relevant to you, continue browsing.
If it is, consult a Rav.
Simple as that.
Yes, thank gd i am jewish (im number 2)
Replies 2 & 3 are the real reason why CH is a lost community. They are protesting against the Rabboinim for warning us about the danger of a cult….
#4 has it right. How many people in Crown Heights can afford to go to such a place? And also stop wasting money on holistic medicine and homeopathy. Better to give the money toward your child’s tuition or to tzedokoh.
Excuse me, are you Jewish?
Being involved myself in various forms of alternative healing for some years. I know that there are real avoda zora issues in many cases including with yoga, energy work and other approaches, especially in Sedona Arizona, it’s a place steeped deep in avoda zora.
This man was my life my complete zivug and now he won’t speak to me or come home to me. My children and I are in agony. Daven for Ari Benyamin Bas Yedudis
#2:
Sooooo messed up?!
A Rov takes his responsibility seriously. Who needs a college diploma even to check up a website and see avoda zara?
Why didn’t this professional w/ a diploma do proper research? Maybe she did, and didn’t think it mattered that much. Which is where a Rov, who know Halchos of avoda zara, steps in and warns the public.
The person in question may have done her own research before giving the AZ referal, but she is not concerned with the Neshama aspect of the referee’s health, as much as the emotional/psychological health. (and it may very well be that she gets a profit for referrals, so she has a personal investment involved in the referral). but as Yidden, especially as Chabad Chassidim (we are talking about Crown Heights after all), we have to be concerned about our Neshomos as well. And for that the person referred to the AZ program needs to consult with his/her rav before making… Read more »
She obviously didn’t do her own research as she wasn’t aware that they use magic even though they state it clearly on the website. All the article says is that for decisions that bear on halacha, a Rov must be consulted as well
Please don’t be so extreme. There are alternitives that have helped where modern medicine did not come close. Modern medicine deals with symptoms while alt medicine deals with the core, thus erasing it permanently. Many times you need both- working with the acute through med and long term through alt healing or even acute through both. Just as cutting weeds from the surface will not permanently get rid of them- they will grow again, so dealing with symptoms through meds, stifles the effect of the stimulus but does not get rid of the stimulus. It is like only shutting off… Read more »
I have a close relative who moved there as part of a cult. It is a desolate place where the “communities” are not what they seem…
our community leaders are killing each other rabbonim are fighting left right and center schools trowing out kids and we are worried about a center in arizona
Very sad… When the opinions of the world start to come before the opinions of Hashem and Torah… When a rov is not the first person you should go to in halachic shaalas because he dosn’t have a college degree?!?! Then we are really in a terrible place… The Rebbe himself many times responded to people that he couldn’t answer, but to ask a Rav…. Honestly this makes my heart break 🙁
This article is written after this story is confirmed to have happened! Please say tehillim for Aryeh Binyomin ben Yehudis that he be returned b’sholom to his family.
It’s about time that we cracked down on the blight of alternative medicines, New Age healing and Anti-Vaccine that have spread in this community.
in my opinion, the name o fthe holistic health center in Crown Heights should be namesd and until they promise to stop referring people to that place in AZ please should be discouraged in every way from going there (to the center in Crown Heights)!
Thank you collive. better safe than sorry, chas v’sholom!!! When in doubt, Don’t do it!!!!!
BH
As a follow up to that article about the very high tuition coasts, I wonder if this retreat has better rates then our local Mosdos.
Wikipedia is the end all be all, is never wrong LOL
next time do actual research, perhaps call the center, or speak to someone who has been there…..so quick to judge something you obviously dont understand. but than again, thats typical crown heights.
Wow! Crown Heights is SOOO messed up! What’s wrong with it? She decided to suggest it to someone after doing her own research. Its pathetic how rabbis think they know everything! Mental health and emotional issues should be presented FIRST to a doctor or mental health professional or some other PROFESSIONAL – not a rabbi who doesnt even have a college degree. then they should let the rabbi know after the fact
that’s terrible! y would anyone refer ppl there!!!!!!!!!!!