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Sunday, 14 Iyyar, 5779
  |  May 19, 2019

    Rabbi Questions Dual Black Straps

    Crown Heights Rabbi Yosef Braun cast doubt on the recent push by sofrim and merchants of Tefillin straps painted on both sides. Full Story, Audio

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    Rebbetzin N. Goodman, 95, OBM

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    so he says nothing
    Guest
    so he says nothing

    it isnt a problem, but holds its not a added benefit.. others say it is…
    so you can do it, but you dont have to…
    thats what we all knew before…

    Chaim
    Guest
    Chaim

    What does rabbi Osdoba say about this ?

    Other reoson..
    Guest
    Other reoson..

    What about having it 2 sided so when it flips over it is still black?

    hmmm
    Guest
    hmmm

    What if I do it on principle? Does it then become a problem?

    kabbalah
    Guest
    kabbalah

    i heard that perhaps “al pee kabbalah” it should not be black on both sides.

    huh? from a sofer
    Guest
    huh? from a sofer

    first, the rambam clearly writes that its a hidur, so even if its a minority of rishonim – its not like its some unknown rishonim, we are talking about one of the 3 main poskim of the rishonim

    second AND MORE IMPORTANT – the main reason to get “black on black” is that its very hard for the retzuos to become pasul by the paint peeling/cracking (being that they are black all the way through)
    i couldnt find this post on the website so i dont know if he addresses this but from this post i dont see anything

    מראי מקומות וציונים
    Guest
    מראי מקומות וציונים

    אין להכחיד שכ״כ כמה ראשונים. וכ״ה ע״פ פשטות ל׳ הרמב״ם תפילין פ״ג הי״ד (ראה רבינו מנוח ורדב״ז שם. ב״י או״ח סל״ג. שו״ת הרדב״ז בלשונות הרמב״ם ח״ה סנ״ג (א׳תכו), והובא בכנה״ג בהגב״י. ושם כתב שגם ברא״ש מ׳ כן. ומש״כ בקובץ אור ישראל (גל׳ מב) לפרש מד״ע בד׳ הרמב״ם באו״א – תמוה). ובשבה״ל ענין תפילין שיש מצריכין כן. ובאו״ז סתקס״ד (הובא בד״מ כאן) שמצוה להשחיר גם מבפנים. ובעיקרי הד״ט ס״ב סקי״ז הביא שכ״כ גם סה״ת. (אלא שלא ראינו שם (סר״ז. סרי״ב) משמעות לכאן או לכאן. ואדרבה). וכ״כ בכ״מ להוכיח כן בשי׳ שאר הראשונים. וראה גם בשו״ת יכין ובועז לנכד התשב״ץ ח״א סק״נ.… Read more »

    isn't it better
    Guest
    isn't it better

    Isn’t it better to do it aswell in case the retzuos flip over, which even then you would be yotze?

    Oy Vay
    Guest
    Oy Vay

    No, It’s not a Hiddur, we all know that.

    However, when the paint peels off, it is still black so it can’t get Posul as quickly.

    Painted on both sides
    Guest
    Painted on both sides

    In reality, isnot painted on both sides. But dyed throughout and then painted on top. So never needs repainting. This is the main reason people buy it.
    Don’t know why anyone would buy from a judaica store. All safrus matters should ONLY be bought from a reliable sofer.

    misguided
    Guest
    misguided

    The objective is not to have it black on both sides. The objective is that it is dyed through and though so that it will never fade into white.

    Flexibility of the Retzuos is also affected
    Guest
    Flexibility of the Retzuos is also affected

    My Rabeinu Tams have dual black straps. I feel the retzuos are not as strong and firm as my Rashis (which I use for a lot longer!).

    I would go back to to the classical one-sided if I could…

    נשתנו העיתים
    Guest
    נשתנו העיתים

    It was not the custom in the past because in the olden days people were to poor to have enough die to soak the straps in. Nowadays, we’re able to do it

    It starts and ends here - the buck stops here!
    Guest
    It starts and ends here - the buck stops here!

    As Chasidei Chabad we do as the the REBBE does
    the whole discussion is irrelevant the REBBE’s retzuos are black on the outside only

    Clearly stated in Ben Ish Hai and Rambam
    Guest
    Clearly stated in Ben Ish Hai and Rambam

    Ben Ish Hai says in his section on Tiffilin says the Mekubalim of Yerushalim had black on black retzuot as a hiddur. I think is also clearly mentioned in Rambam as well.
    Dyed black thought and through is great so no issue of the retzuout becoming white and they are less likely to become pasul.
    Why would that not be hiddur and they are beautiful. I would never question the holy Rambam and Ben Ish Hai for they were Nasi Hador without doubt.
    ESN

    to number 12
    Guest
    to number 12

    You certainly can. Go buy yourself a white pair.

    What the rebbe did
    Guest
    What the rebbe did

    Sof kol sof the rebbe wore black and black (at least in the later years)

    Aaron
    Guest
    Aaron

    BS”D really bewilderd why we cannot have a Din Torah in CH, after all there are so many Rabbonim and Poskim here

    Agree to # 14
    Guest
    Agree to # 14

    That’s right! the Rebbe just didn’t have it
    הידור אהין הידור אהער עושין מה שהרבי עשה

    "It wasn't done in the past"...
    Guest
    "It wasn't done in the past"...

    … is not a reason not to do it now. Many things we do now were not done in the past. We have improved our observance and adopted many hiddurim that our great-grandparents never heard of, or didn’t do. Why not this one?

    Interesting to note
    Guest
    Interesting to note

    From what I see and experience is that most black and black retzuahs when peeled , cracked or has wear and tear the black is faded to another color besides black, some of them have a blue greenish tinge to them and that must be re blackened that’s for starters . B ) This black on black, became a trend outside lubavitch , that people in lubavitch decided to follow the rest of the world!!! The same is with the FAD of sgira ,closing and painting shut with crazy glue the tetura of tefillin to look like brand new, in… Read more »

    @18
    Guest
    @18

    Yes you can … If you go to Rabbi Osdoba, the senior rav of our beis din and schunah

    "Zirkind Retzuos"
    Guest
    "Zirkind Retzuos"

    My tefillin were purchased from Rabbi Zirkind in Morristown in 1990. He outfitted them with hand cut retzuos that were black on both sides. They were smooth on both sides; they didn’t have a “fuzzy” side like the the typical retzuos do. That is how I believe his father did it as well, and those were the retzuos he used for the Rebbe’s tefillin.

    The equalizer
    Guest
    The equalizer

    The Munkatcher Rebbe wore black on both sides

    The past...
    Guest
    The past...

    Something still doesn’t add up here.
    All of a sudden, after thousands of years one way, something so cheap and easy, is now discovered? Makes me really wonder…

    מה שהרבי עושה אנחנו עושים
    Guest
    מה שהרבי עושה אנחנו עושים

    הלא גמרא מפורש הוא (בנוגע לערבות) שאנו סומכים על בדיעבד של רבינו כמו לכתחילה

    #15
    Guest
    #15

    You can live in the time of the rambam and follow the rambam, but it would seem very backwards to go by the rambam and Ben ish chai, when we have a Rebbe and nosi hador nowadays

    The real shailoh is...
    Guest
    The real shailoh is...

    Can we make an eruv with these retzuos? Certainly that could create more of a stir, no?

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