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Wednesday, 26 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 6, 2024

Rabbi Questions Dual Black Straps

Crown Heights Rabbi Yosef Braun cast doubt on the recent push by sofrim and merchants of Tefillin straps painted on both sides. Full Story, Audio

Rebbetzin N. Goodman, 95, OBM

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The real shailoh is...
October 18, 2017 12:24 pm

Can we make an eruv with these retzuos? Certainly that could create more of a stir, no?

#15
October 18, 2017 11:12 am

You can live in the time of the rambam and follow the rambam, but it would seem very backwards to go by the rambam and Ben ish chai, when we have a Rebbe and nosi hador nowadays

מה שהרבי עושה אנחנו עושים
October 18, 2017 5:13 am

הלא גמרא מפורש הוא (בנוגע לערבות) שאנו סומכים על בדיעבד של רבינו כמו לכתחילה

The past...
October 18, 2017 2:55 am

Something still doesn’t add up here.
All of a sudden, after thousands of years one way, something so cheap and easy, is now discovered? Makes me really wonder…

The equalizer
October 18, 2017 1:30 am

The Munkatcher Rebbe wore black on both sides

"Zirkind Retzuos"
October 18, 2017 12:34 am

My tefillin were purchased from Rabbi Zirkind in Morristown in 1990. He outfitted them with hand cut retzuos that were black on both sides. They were smooth on both sides; they didn’t have a “fuzzy” side like the the typical retzuos do. That is how I believe his father did it as well, and those were the retzuos he used for the Rebbe’s tefillin.

@18
October 18, 2017 12:06 am

Yes you can … If you go to Rabbi Osdoba, the senior rav of our beis din and schunah

Interesting to note
October 17, 2017 11:44 pm

From what I see and experience is that most black and black retzuahs when peeled , cracked or has wear and tear the black is faded to another color besides black, some of them have a blue greenish tinge to them and that must be re blackened that’s for starters . B ) This black on black, became a trend outside lubavitch , that people in lubavitch decided to follow the rest of the world!!! The same is with the FAD of sgira ,closing and painting shut with crazy glue the tetura of tefillin to look like brand new, in… Read more »

"It wasn't done in the past"...
October 17, 2017 10:42 pm

… is not a reason not to do it now. Many things we do now were not done in the past. We have improved our observance and adopted many hiddurim that our great-grandparents never heard of, or didn’t do. Why not this one?

Agree to # 14
October 17, 2017 9:30 pm

That’s right! the Rebbe just didn’t have it
הידור אהין הידור אהער עושין מה שהרבי עשה

Aaron
October 17, 2017 9:27 pm

BS”D really bewilderd why we cannot have a Din Torah in CH, after all there are so many Rabbonim and Poskim here

What the rebbe did
October 17, 2017 9:17 pm

Sof kol sof the rebbe wore black and black (at least in the later years)

to number 12
October 17, 2017 9:02 pm

You certainly can. Go buy yourself a white pair.

Clearly stated in Ben Ish Hai and Rambam
October 17, 2017 8:24 pm

Ben Ish Hai says in his section on Tiffilin says the Mekubalim of Yerushalim had black on black retzuot as a hiddur. I think is also clearly mentioned in Rambam as well.
Dyed black thought and through is great so no issue of the retzuout becoming white and they are less likely to become pasul.
Why would that not be hiddur and they are beautiful. I would never question the holy Rambam and Ben Ish Hai for they were Nasi Hador without doubt.
ESN

It starts and ends here - the buck stops here!
October 17, 2017 8:11 pm

As Chasidei Chabad we do as the the REBBE does
the whole discussion is irrelevant the REBBE’s retzuos are black on the outside only

נשתנו העיתים
October 17, 2017 7:49 pm

It was not the custom in the past because in the olden days people were to poor to have enough die to soak the straps in. Nowadays, we’re able to do it

Flexibility of the Retzuos is also affected
October 17, 2017 6:08 pm

My Rabeinu Tams have dual black straps. I feel the retzuos are not as strong and firm as my Rashis (which I use for a lot longer!).

I would go back to to the classical one-sided if I could…

misguided
October 17, 2017 5:38 pm

The objective is not to have it black on both sides. The objective is that it is dyed through and though so that it will never fade into white.

Painted on both sides
October 17, 2017 5:30 pm

In reality, isnot painted on both sides. But dyed throughout and then painted on top. So never needs repainting. This is the main reason people buy it.
Don’t know why anyone would buy from a judaica store. All safrus matters should ONLY be bought from a reliable sofer.

Oy Vay
October 17, 2017 5:24 pm

No, It’s not a Hiddur, we all know that.

However, when the paint peels off, it is still black so it can’t get Posul as quickly.

isn't it better
October 17, 2017 5:00 pm

Isn’t it better to do it aswell in case the retzuos flip over, which even then you would be yotze?

מראי מקומות וציונים
October 17, 2017 3:54 pm

אין להכחיד שכ״כ כמה ראשונים. וכ״ה ע״פ פשטות ל׳ הרמב״ם תפילין פ״ג הי״ד (ראה רבינו מנוח ורדב״ז שם. ב״י או״ח סל״ג. שו״ת הרדב״ז בלשונות הרמב״ם ח״ה סנ״ג (א׳תכו), והובא בכנה״ג בהגב״י. ושם כתב שגם ברא״ש מ׳ כן. ומש״כ בקובץ אור ישראל (גל׳ מב) לפרש מד״ע בד׳ הרמב״ם באו״א – תמוה). ובשבה״ל ענין תפילין שיש מצריכין כן. ובאו״ז סתקס״ד (הובא בד״מ כאן) שמצוה להשחיר גם מבפנים. ובעיקרי הד״ט ס״ב סקי״ז הביא שכ״כ גם סה״ת. (אלא שלא ראינו שם (סר״ז. סרי״ב) משמעות לכאן או לכאן. ואדרבה). וכ״כ בכ״מ להוכיח כן בשי׳ שאר הראשונים. וראה גם בשו״ת יכין ובועז לנכד התשב״ץ ח״א סק״נ.… Read more »

huh? from a sofer
October 17, 2017 3:53 pm

first, the rambam clearly writes that its a hidur, so even if its a minority of rishonim – its not like its some unknown rishonim, we are talking about one of the 3 main poskim of the rishonim

second AND MORE IMPORTANT – the main reason to get “black on black” is that its very hard for the retzuos to become pasul by the paint peeling/cracking (being that they are black all the way through)
i couldnt find this post on the website so i dont know if he addresses this but from this post i dont see anything

kabbalah
October 17, 2017 3:23 pm

i heard that perhaps “al pee kabbalah” it should not be black on both sides.

hmmm
October 17, 2017 3:19 pm

What if I do it on principle? Does it then become a problem?

Other reoson..
October 17, 2017 2:53 pm

What about having it 2 sided so when it flips over it is still black?

Chaim
October 17, 2017 2:16 pm

What does rabbi Osdoba say about this ?

so he says nothing
October 17, 2017 1:56 pm

it isnt a problem, but holds its not a added benefit.. others say it is…
so you can do it, but you dont have to…
thats what we all knew before…

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